QMatOp for DVD-RB : QMat Optimization

[Axlemar]

Cool. I will be glad to try it out as soon as it is available.

[onesoul]

I also noticed today in pdf file of cce, the 127 quantifier limitation, I was about to point that also, although I used HC before.
But cool, I will surely try the new version.

[SAPSTAR]

This one was tested by Fishman0919 on several cases which allowed to tune it and remove some major bugs !!!
Special thanks for his help, and good luck for all your encodings, this time this is really close from my initial target.

[Carpo]

beofre i start to use this on all backups can anyone tell me if they have noticed any difference when using this tool on their backups

On a few test samples i did i couldnt see a diff (my poor eyes ;) )

[Fishman0919]

Up until the latest ver, it's been a trade off.... better quality (Too Me) in the lower action (or slow/still) parts of the movie and lesser quality in fast moving part of the movie. Now with the new ver. it's real close for me... still getting the the good quality on slow parts and the fast stuff is about the same.

[Carpo]

so u say to use v0.10 or to wait a bit longer ?

[Fishman0919]

Use it, see if it work well for you. For me the fast action scenes look equal to the an encoding without it but the slow scene and stills look much, much better

[gilligan2]

Hey guys,nice job on this proggie here. I have a question though. I was wondering if someone could take a look at my .ini file and see if they see anything that would be causing the program to take over 8 hours to complete.

I have a Dual Xeon 3.06 GHz machine and i know these programs aren't tuned for SMP but i see times of 1/2 hour and 2 hours and mine took 8 hours so i was looking for some recommendations to speed it up some.

workdir=E:\Movie\D2VAVS
tolerance=1
framesplitperiod=5
AutoEncode=1


Any input would be appreciated.This was with the version 9b i believe or whichever version was before the latest.

Thanks,

g:)

[ernstblaauw]

With version 9b and all settings to 1: The time to complete was 21 hours. I have an Athlon64 3000+.

[gilligan2]

ok,well that's good to know that i wasn't screwing something up and it can take that long.

Thanks,

g:)

[Fishman0919]

workdir=E:\Movie\D2VAVS

You need to change that to your dvd-rb work dir

workdir=C:\dvd-rb\D2VAVS


something like that or whatever yours is - edit, sorry nevermind :o

I've been testing alot(real lot) for SAPSTAR and

tolerance=2
framesplitperiod=10

is real good and cut time down alot

Make sure you are using the latest version 0.10b, much better results

[gilligan2]

OK,i'll try those settings.
Thanks Fishman0919 !


g:)

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by Fishman0919
....

tolerance=2
framesplitperiod=10

is real good and cut time down alot

Make sure you are using the latest version 0.10b, much better results
Those settings are most probably for PAL, in the case of NTSC, a framesplitperiod of 15 should be equivalent.
Rule of thumb : FrameRate / 2 is a good ratio
=> PAL 12 should be good
=> NTSC 15 or 12 depending on interlaced or non interlaced DVD.

And thanks again to FishMan0919 who really made me correct bugs and tune the beast really quickly !!!! With so many tests in a so short period, I was able to figure out a lot of things.

[gilligan2]

OK SAPSTAR,thanks for the advice ;)

g:)

[Carpo]

so gil ur no longer a virgin to this prog - took u enuff time to have a look at it after i told you about it :D

[gilligan2]

Originally posted by Carpo
so gil ur no longer a virgin to this prog - took u enuff time to have a look at it after i told you about it :D

LOL,yes,i am using it now for a few to see how it turns out since the CCE bug was found. I used it with HC Enc for one and it looked good.

g:)

[Axlemar]

The quality is definitely much improved using CCE SP on animation now. The stills look fine, but high motion scenes still seem to fall short of CCE SP by itself. I will try the animation setting. but if you don't mind can you explain what it does differently? Thanks.

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by Axlemar
The quality is definitely much improved using CCE SP on animation now. The stills look fine, but high motion scenes still seem to fall short of CCE SP by itself. I will try the animation setting. but if you don't mind can you explain what it does differently? Thanks.
To summarize, instead of having a range of values 8-127 like regular movies, for animations the range is now 8-55, I tried yesterday Princess Stories Vol. One, the usage of the animation flag definitely improved the final result ! I would recommend you to use it for high speed animations. Anyway, I'm still thinking about an improvement for animations, for regular movies, I'll leave it for a while as the results are really good for now.

[hutch1711]

Originally posted by SAPSTAR
CCE SP doesn't handle quantifiers >127
That's really a major flaw in CCE SP. I'm a bit disappointed as the MPEG2 standard is a range of 8-255 values for the matrices.

Some questions.

Was QMat developed only to be used with CCE SP, or can it be used with other encoders?

Does HC, or any of the other available encoders, have the ability to use the MPEG2 8-255 range of values for matrices?

If any of these encoders can use the MPEG2 standand would it make any sense to have another version of QMAT that would take full advantage of the MPEG2 8-255 values for the matrices?

[hank315]

Does HC, or any of the other available encoders, have the ability to use the MPEG2 8-255 range of values for matrices?With HC you can use values up to 255 without any problem.

[Fishman0919]

CCE SP 2.66 and up, HC Encoder and QuEnc (I think it's .57 and up that can import matrixs) work with QMatOp and DVD-RB. HC Encoder worked real well in the tests(seems like 1000's) I did for SAPSTAR.

[hutch1711]

Originally posted by Fishman0919
CCE SP 2.66 and up, HC Encoder and QuEnc (I think it's .57 and up that can import matrixs) work with QMatOp and DVD-RB. HC Encoder worked real well in the tests(seems like 1000's) I did for SAPSTAR.
Were those tests done using an earlier version of QMatOp, or am I wrong to assume the latest version is limited to a range of 8-127?

[Fishman0919]

HISTORY:
Changes in 0.10b :
- Corrected the formula for the size of each intra/inter frames
- Limited the max values to 127 (CCE restriction) Thanks again to Fishman0919 !!!
- Changed the way the final average calculation is processed
- Corrected an error when the framesplitperiod is over 30s.
- Corrected an error when avg = min bitrate. Thanks again to Fishman0919 !!!
- Added a new parameter for Animations, the optimization is different in this special case. Be careful with this parameter, it's still being tested.

[hutch1711]

Thanks Fishman0919. Okay, then if you were using HC, or any of the encoders that can use the full MPEG2 8-255 range, would you be better off using an earlier version of QMatOp?

[Fishman0919]

- Changed the way the final average calculation is processed

This help alot in the final quality, ver .9b was better good but ver .10b is by far the beat one yet.

Most of the test I ran were with HC, I think ver. .10b worked the best.

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by hutch1711
Were those tests done using an earlier version of QMatOp, or am I wrong to assume the latest version is limited to a range of 8-127?
Well, you're right the last version of QMatOp is limited to a range of 8-127, if some people are interested, I could put it in parameters, I mean, a parameter like RangeLimitation, so if you wish to go further, it could be taken into account...at your own risk ! :)

[hutch1711]

:)

[Carpo]

im using

tolerance=2
framesplitperiod=15

NTSC R1 version of pulp fiction

used v0.10 of qmatop and hc0.14 and the test bit i did had the vid looking spot on (as well as undot().cnr2() ) - so think my days of 5 pass cce are gone

good work to SAPSTAR and hank :)

[Axlemar]

The quality with the animation switch turned on seemed good to me. Its getting very close to being as good or better than rebuilder and CCE SP by themselves.

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by Axlemar
The quality with the animation switch turned on seemed good to me. Its getting very close to being as good or better than rebuilder and CCE SP by themselves.
Thank you...and I'm to release an improved version of it, I'm not yet totally satisfied about the results with animations.

[Carpo]

any chance you might tell us when this new version will be out SAPSTAR ?

have a few backups to do and would like to use newer version if it gives better results - or is it that new version will only give better results on animation and im good to go with 0.10 ?

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by Carpo
any chance you might tell us when this new version will be out SAPSTAR ?

have a few backups to do and would like to use newer version if it gives better results - or is it that new version will only give better results on animation and im good to go with 0.10 ? It will be improved for animations only, as I'm currently satisfied with the current quality of "regular" movies. The next version should be released soon...most probably tonight or on Monday.

[Carpo]

ok SAPSTAR - will test it out then on a few animation dvds i have :)

[gilligan2]

Originally posted by SAPSTAR
To summarize, instead of having a range of values 8-127 like regular movies, for animations the range is now 8-55, I tried yesterday Princess Stories Vol. One, the usage of the animation flag definitely improved the final result ! I would recommend you to use it for high speed animations. Anyway, I'm still thinking about an improvement for animations, for regular movies, I'll leave it for a while as the results are really good for now.

Would this same logic then hold true for high speed action movies,like for instance, porn where all that "moving" is happening ?

g:)

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by gilligan2
Would this same logic then hold true for high speed action movies,like for instance, porn where all that "moving" is happening ?

g:)

:D Hmmm no .... The Animation flag must be reserved for smooth material as Animations, CG, .... Especially, with the last version I will release tonight. I ran some tests, and now, I'm satisfied...I'm running a last test, if it works...I release it just after it...should be close from 9-10 pm EST tonight.
[EDIT] I was wrong I did it before :)

[SAPSTAR]

I finally had time to release it...
Some new features, "AutoRebuild" and "WaitForPrepare", it means you choose your settings in DVDRB, you press Prepare, then you just have to start QMatOp, the rest will be automatic...Only restriction, keep DVD-RB open.
I also improved the animation part....It seems really good now in the tests I ran, especially with HC.
[EDIT] I forgot to mention I also introduced a RangeLimit parameter to allow the change of the upper limit in the matrices. Currently, it's partially ignored in Animation mode.

[gilligan2]

OK,thanks.

Now here is my other question. In the older versions it would go through a routine in the command prompt box saying all the 'Perceptual Error" and show the matrices,etc. Now when i do the auto,it just shows like the pic.Is this normal ? It shows QMATOP using 100% CPU but not avs2avi or dctune never getting called.Even when i set the Auto's at 0 or remove them form the ini it still just gives me this Command Prompt Box now and hangs

Thanks.

Tom

EDIT-Pic not showing up. Give me a minute. LOL

Click on link for pic-Thanks-

http://www.dvderotica.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=318&stc=1

[SAPSTAR]

@gilligan2

I can't access you pics, I have no account on dvderotica, anyway, did you create a shortcut to start QMatOp ??? If yes, you have to specify its directory as a work directory if you don't understand try to click directly on it without using a shortcut.....

[gilligan2]

OK,i'll give it a try tomorrow when i have some more time.I did create a shortcut but i created one before also on 10b and it worked fine but now it won't work even when i remove all references to DVDRBInterface and DVDRBEncode in the .ini file.I can't get it to work just normally with 11b. I get the same hanging. I'll try to cut down the size on the pic and post it again. Even when i try it directly without the shortcut,same trouble. I got 10b to work fine so i don't think i'm doing anything wrong.

Thanks,

g:)

[Carpo]

yay! im not the only perv out there :D

[Carpo]

Originally posted by gilligan2
Would this same logic then hold true for high speed action movies,like for instance, porn where all that "moving" is happening ?

g:)


havent you hear of safe posting - start waring a rubber ;D

[gilligan2]

One other thing i noticed is that it never looks for the default work folder either. It just hangs and it used to give me all kinds of errors if i didn't change the like in the .ini file that says "workdir=H:\DVDTemp\D2VAVS". It never seems to get that far,even with both the others set on 0 like this:

workdir=H:\DVDTemp\D2VAVS
tolerance=2
framesplitperiod=15
AutoEncode=1
AutoRebuild=1
Animation=0
RangeLimit=127

or this

workdir=H:\DVDTemp\D2VAVS
tolerance=2
framesplitperiod=15
AutoEncode=0
AutoRebuild=0
Animation=0
RangeLimit=255

It just hangs like this no matter where i put it .If i put it in the DVD Rebuilder folder it still just hangs. Am i doing something wrong ? Any one else have 11b working and can give me some step by steps on how they did it differently than 10b which works fine for me ?

Execing cmd.exe /C .\DVDRBInterface.exe WAITPREPARE C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\QMatOp11b\QMatOp\.\WAITDVDRB

I get this message with either 0 or 1 in the auto encode and auto rebuild lines.


thanks,

g:)

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by gilligan2

...
Execing cmd.exe /C .\DVDRBInterface.exe WAITPREPARE C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\QMatOp11b\QMatOp\.\WAITDVDRB
...
g:)

I know what is the problem now, the spaces in the QMatOp directory name, I forgot that some people may use this kind of directory name...I will correct this stupid error, just try to install it in a "regular" directory, like C:\QMatOp .......it will work.
This part can't be deactivated, it waits for Prepare to end before starting.....

[gilligan2]

OK,thank you SAPSTAR !
I will try it out now and see.

g:)

EDIT-It worked so thanks very much and keep up the nice work.

g;)

[SAPSTAR]

Well.. except the small bug in the WaitForPrepare function, it seems that QMatOp is now rather stable....

Do you have now suggestions ??? any idea of improvements ??? any bad quality detected in some special cases ?

[Axlemar]

I am not sure if the changes made to the animation setting has made things better or worse, anyone else notice a difference?

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by Axlemar
I am not sure if the changes made to the animation setting has made things better or worse, anyone else notice a difference?
I may be biased ;) but in the last encoding I did the animations copies were perfect...I mean identical to the original ?! Not for you ?

[hutch1711]

Just finished backing up a 2 disc set of Pride and Prejudice.
I'm absolutely astounded by the picture quality on my 50 inch Sony.
QMatOp is a wonderful tool and I urge everyone to give it a try.
Sapstar I don't know what you can do for an encore.
Job well done!

[SAPSTAR]

Originally posted by hutch1711
Just finished backing up a 2 disc set of Pride and Prejudice.
I'm absolutely astounded by the picture quality on my 50 inch Sony.
QMatOp is a wonderful tool and I urge everyone to give it a try.
Sapstar I don't know what you can do for an encore.
Job well done!
:cool: Thank you !!! I'm to release a new version with a function to auto adjust the Quality Prec for each cell, of course, it's useful only with CCE.....

[genericuser]

I am getting ready to try version .11. I have downloaded it and installed it. I am not doing cartoons. I am wondering a couple of things:

Do I have to mess with the matrix setting used in dvd-rb itself? I just have it set to the default matrix.

I am using cce 2.7 and I am planning on turing on the QATMAT option in cce too. I think people in this thread have said that was ok as well.

If I read the thread correctly, I just have to set up my .ini file to point to the dvd folder that gets created, set the sample rate and precision and such.

I think that using .11 I "prepare" in dvd-rb and everything flows from that. Is that correct thinking?

Thanks!