Timestamps

[jojo15]

Hi,

i added subtitles to a DVD using -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83566 this...
but now they aren't synched with the audio...
so i got this idea to rip a sub that was already on the dvd to get the correct timestamps... the only problem i now have, is that i have to replace every sub in the sub-file from the dvd with my subs....
isn't there an easier way to do this, or do i really have to copy-paste it one by one??

Thnx in advance!

[niamh]

Load your faulty subtitles in subtitle workshop, press Shift+Ctrl+T (Read timings from file), browse to your correctly timed file, and save.

I've tested it with .srt and .ssa, and it seems it takes .son and .sst too. Good luck :)

[jojo15]

Ok it works,
but now i have this problem,
on the dvd are english subs, and scandinavian subs (danish, norsk, etc),
now the english are longer (because everything they say is subtitled) and the scandinavian are shorter (don't know why, because there is as much said right)....
Now i tried with the english ones, but the problem is, there is some english text hard-coded (is that how you call text that is in the video stream?), which isn't, obviously, translated in the English subs, because there's no need for that, but in my (Dutch) subs, it is translated, and if i use the method u describe the will start when someone starts to talk, because then there's need for the English subs,
but before that (in the beginning) there is some of that hard-coded text, so that gets skipped because it isn't in the English subs, and during the movie there are several of these moments...
Is there a simple way to fix this or not? (because removing those translations will screw up the sub, i think, i use a srt, and you could get something like: (line)24 [enter] "time" --> "time" [enter] blabla, then (line)26 [enter] "time" --> "time" [enter] blabla, if line 25 was a translation of some hard-coded text...)
I hope i'm clear, because i wrote a lot/too much :p ....
If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated, again!

[niamh]

I understand you only too well... I feared it would come to this :(

There are 2 methods that I can think of, none extra simple, but still faster than manual editing.

First method; untested:

According to sub workshop's guide, you can quickly adjust timings out of another file so long as the first and last subtitles are the same (i.e. the same meaning, spoken by the same person)(never mind if they have a different number of lines)
I have no idea how this can really work, and as I said, I haven't tried it, so no rotten tomatoes for failure please ;)

Obviously this isn't your case, so you will have to trick SW a bit.
[First thing though, if your danish or norwegian subs have the same first and last line as the dutch ones, please try it off them :)]
Anyway, to insert a fake subtitle at the start, load your movie in preview (another problem, if you load the raw VOBs, avoid too much toggling, or the synch will go to hell). Anyway, your dutch subs are loaded, highlight the first sub, and click shift+ins. This will insert a blank subtitle at the start. Then run your preview and (this blank sub being highlighted), press the little left arrow (that says set start time) at the presumed start of that sub, and press the little right arrow(that says set final time) at the presumed end of it (those 2 arrows are to the right of the double arrow; there is a line of round buttons in the middle of the window). Fill that sub with something (it'll be deleted later).
Do that for the last line if needs be (except press ins instead of shift+ins, to insert the blank sub after the last line, and not before)

Then, when you're satisfied that your first and last line correspond, press Shift+Ctrl+B (Adjust to synchronized subtitles, which isn't the same as earlier), and select the good sub file (the english or danish one, say). Then save (you can delete the dummy lines at this stage). This is supposed to work, but I can't confirm it for you.

If it doesn't, time for plan B, come back to me, I'll show you how to set several synch points.. it'll take a bit longer to fix that way though.

[jojo15]

First,
thnx for helping, i really appreciate :)
to come back to the danish subs, i tried it with those, but at some point there is an error like this: there is a sub with the time "02:00:54 and then there is one with "01:28:45", and this happens a couple of times after a certain point... so i get lots of errors with DVD-Lab...
If there is a way to fix this, and it's easier then "The First Method"... then i'd like to know and try, if not, i'll just try "The First Method" :p

Thx in advance again!

[niamh]

That's overlapping, but to such an extent, I'm wondering what happened.(for normal overlapping, i.e. one sub ends up a few milliseconds after another has started, which most apps don't like, hit Ctrl+I to fix these errors)

OK
second method:

Load the dutch sub file
Load the movie preview.
Highlight the first sub out of synch(probably the first one :D). Then run the preview, and when the person starts talking that particular sub, hit the little S button that says synchronization point. You'll get a synch window. Leave it alone for now.
Repeat the procedure as much as you can, to give the app as many sync points as you can.
In the advanced sync window, you will see 3 options, up to you to decide which is best for you, either you let it extrapolate the timecodes outside the set sync points, either you let it keep the original times outside the sync points, depending on your situation (Return displacement of neighbour point. If desired time is before first sync point, then it will calculate the new time using the displacement of the first sync point. If desired time is after last sync point, then it will calculate the new time using the displacement of the last sync point: if you can make sense of that, I can't).

I would say, you'd need a sync point every time you have a sub missing/extra ... nothing funny to work out, and not entirely sure to be perfect in this case.
You can also work piecemeal, by hitting adjust regularly, and assessing the situation.

Desperate method:

:D (I've used it before)
Create dummy sub lines where they're missing according to the english layout (or reverse). Use the english timings. Delete dummy subs.

If someone has a faster way of doing it, I'd love to hear about it too :)

[jojo15]

I think this is how i'll do:

- Remove the subs that aren't tranlated in the Dutch subs from the English one

- Add extra lines between the subs for the hard-coded text and use the times from one of the Scandinavian subs, also in the English subs file

- Use the method you first described which inserts the Dutch subs into the English file, thus giving it the correct times

This should work right?

[niamh]

Yep, looks like it should.
And welcome to the painful world of subtitles :)

[jojo15]

Painfull indeed,
now i got this problem:
the first sub is perfectly correct, but then,
the sub comes before they actually say it and so on, so you have:
sub -> corresponding part of the movie movie + sub from the next thing they say...
is that fixable? :confused:

Jezus it's really getting a pain in the ass... :mad:

[niamh]

Is it only the second subtitle that's off, or is it only the first one that's correct? And are they all early by the same sort of time? That would make it easier

[jojo15]

It's really weird,
because when they say something (sub is gone already), the sub that's supposed to be 10s later is already there, but this is also the case with a sub that's supposed to show up 1s later, so i guess it's not (easy) fixable...

[niamh]

It would look like you're screwed indeed. The timings you used obviously do not correspond at all (different edition of the film, happens often enough). If I were you I'd load the original file and try to insert as many sync points in it as you feel you're able for, then adjust, and see where you stand, then do again. Other than that, you will have to time them all one by one :-/ .Or maybe someone knows a miracle cure. Or you could have a look at a subtitle database where you might find better subs, like extratitles.to (http://217.64.35.213/searchs.php)

[jojo15]

thnx for the advise,
but it's just weird, or could subrip have ripped the subs wrong (with wrong times) because, they ought to be good don't they?
if there's an other way of ripping subs, then i would like to try that first, and see if it delivers the correct times...

[niamh]

Well the dutch subtitles obviously don't come from that dvd do they? or this is what I understood..Films can be cut and edited differently in different countries.. The other possibility is you added/removed a dummy sub in a wrong place, that would be enough to change the whole lot of them after it. You wouldn't get usually wrong times no, I mean, I never got that.

edit: before you apply timings from file A to file B, you need to make sure they have the same number of lines too

[jojo15]

Ah, that's it, i guess, the Dutch one has 4 lines less, how can i fix that?

Edit: Nvm, i'll just double-check for things that aren't translated in the Dutch version.. i'll let you know if it worked :D

[niamh]

Ah, that's it, i guess, the Dutch one has 4 lines less, how can i fix that?

By finding them one by one, and inserting a dummy line instead , which you can remove after. You could use the translating mode to have the 2 files side by side. Remember, you can only edit (I think) the left one, so it's only really handy to check what corresponds to what really, and it's not a very clean method :).(basically, switch on translating mode, check what line needs be added, remove translating mode, add the line, re enter translating mode, check again... lol). If you think this mode is handy to just paste the dutch lines against the english file, yes it is, it'll only take you around 3 to 5 hours to fill it all up ;)

[jojo15]

Ok,
i fixed the lines,
now the first 15 minutes are totally perfect but after that the subs get ahead, just like before, just one line...
but i checked in this translator mode and saw three lines in the Dutch translation which were marked red, and said "3 non-translated lines",
could this be causing the subs getting ahead, and how could i fix it because i can't see the 3 non-translated lines .... (btw, the 3 red marked lines are curiously enough all names)

[niamh]

Wherever the subs get ahead, you have a line missing again.
the 3 non translated lines, would be I think the blank lines you added yourself.(since you had 4 lines missing at the start, then it would mean you forgot one somewhere, I would guess at around 15 minutes?) just put any gibberish in them, like ! or >, so they appear as a real subtitle and not in red, and are easy to get rid of afterwards using the search.

What do you mean, all names? if the lines look genuine, forget about above explanation, SW isn't all knowing either ..it's a bit hard to guess without seeing the subs in question either.

[jojo15]

With names, i meant persons names, e.g. John...
but never mind that..
i saw in the Dutch around these 15 minutes, there was one sub to much, and after that, i removed another one from the English, which wasn't in the Dutch, to make the number equal again....
it's now working on it again, and i'll see if it's correct now, finally :p

[jojo15]

Ok,
all the faulty subs are fixed and now it works perfect!
thanks a lot niamh for all your help!!

[niamh]

:eek: :eek: Hurray!
And thanks for reporting success, it's all too rare :)

[jojo15]

It was mostly for thanking you,
and so you'd know you have a good job guiding me,
o master :D :p