Announcing DivX Fusion and the DivX Media Format

[thefluffy]

Originally posted by bond
DigitAl56K, can you say if dxn's subtitle format is the same as vobsubs in dvds or is it something different?
eg would it be possible to place vobsubs from dvds into .divx without doing conversions in the subs stream?

DigitAl can't answer that (to tell you the truth he's not all there...), but I will attempt to fill the void.

Simple answer is no. The DivX subtitle format is a compressed 4 bit bitmap. Our SDK provides APIs to convert bitmaps into this compressed format, and mux them with video and audio.

[DigitAl56K]

Just because I'm not all there doesn't mean I'm not not all not there, or something! O.O

[Lord_KiRon]

OK , guys , thanks , but what about my other questions ?

[bond]

Originally posted by thefluffy
Simple answer is nothx :)

[thefluffy]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
So you are saing that DXN put bitmaps inside the .divx files , not text data ?

Well .. on one hand it will surely simplify the process (just like on DVD) but on the other it defits the purpose of text subtitles - small size and editability .
One can say that in era of HD recordings having dozen of megas of subtitles is not that much but still this is a bit disapointing ...
Any chance DXN implement BOTH aproaches (text and bitmaps) ?

In development we supported both bitmaps and text, however we found no hardware support of text subtitles in DVD players.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by thefluffy
In development we supported both bitmaps and text, however we found no hardware support of text subtitles in DVD players.
Are you kidding? I think the only (external) subtitle format the Philips DVP-642 supports is .srt, pure ASCII text.

[DigitAl56K]

No support = Nothing that you could call widespread "support" for a particular format beyond a few specific cases.

[Lord_KiRon]

You gota be kidding !

1.Every MTK based player releases last year supports .srt subtitles format . Last versions support .sub.

2. ESS based players support .sub and .srt .

3. Some of Sigma based players (Like KiSS) support them as well !

4. Zoran based players suppor .srt and .sub .

I do not know even one single player with recently updated firmware that doers not support at least .srt !


Btw: still waiting for answer on other questions :)

[jggimi]

My player doesn't support any external subs. JVC XV-NP10S. I've tested it with seven different external .sub formats, none work. (I still haven't figured out what chipset it uses, my guess is ESS, but that's just a guess.)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jggimi
I still haven't figured out what chipset it uses, my guess is ESS, but that's just a guess. Is the chip-set not viewable when you lift the player lid?


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

A text based subtitle solution would IMHO produce more problems than it solves. Look at all the mostly horrible solutions in current players.

If you want to make it really good it would be not very easy to implement in hardware.

[jggimi]

Lid? :p

That would require touching its pretty skin:

http://www.jvc.com/Resources/00/00/50/00.JPG

Its the only thing pretty about the unit, unfortunately.

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by jggimi
My player doesn't support any external subs.

Lord_KiRon: There you go :)

The problem is greater than you would imagine, though. If only one device type does not support a subtitle format, yet it has a vast number of units on the market, then that is a big problem for compatibility. Also consider user experience: Of the players that do actually support subs, do they all support multiple subtitle tracks? Do they all provide a convenient method to switch subtitles? Are the subtitles always rendered in a suitable font, even for localized units?

DivX specified a subtitle format during the first revisions of DivX Certification. We know that all of our certified devices support our format, we know that multiple subtitles can be present, we know they will render correctly. Of course, there is nothing wrong with the .srt and .sub formats, but we are striving for a good implementation and compatibility and a good viewer experience.

Additionally, placing subtitles inside the content container itself makes files with multiple subtitles more convenient to distribute and manage on a local machine, burn to CD, and to control via a video menu.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jggimi
Lid? :p

That would require touching its pretty skin:

Its the only thing pretty about the unit, unfortunately. Oh.. go on!


Cheers

[Lord_KiRon]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
Additionally, placing subtitles inside the content container itself makes files with multiple subtitles more convenient to distribute and manage on a local machine, burn to CD, and to control via a video menu. [/B]

I am not talking about EXTERNAL text based formats , you "twisted" :) the descussio in that direction .
All I care is a text based format , like in OGM , internal even better.
Also you do not have to adobt all the text formats , just pick one and use it :) (like OGM uses SRT inside).


Btw: , may I turn once again your attention to my OTHER questions :

1. Previously (about a year ago) DXN promised to "take care" in new format of out of sync problem with VBR MP3 audio stream.
Is it done ?
Taken that .divx is subversion of AVIs that requre standard size audio frames - how it done ?


3. What about aspect ratio data is it there /used or just as with regular AVI - you have a field in header defined in standard but it so not standard that no one uses it ?

4.What about such DVD feature as "multiple viewing angles" ? Is it supported / implemented ? If yes then how ? - just as different video stream + menu entry ?

5. What about interlaced encodings ? Are they supported (so for example software player playing such file on PC would know it need to deiterlace on run-time) ?

[Shinigami-Sama]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon

Btw: , may I turn once again your attention to my OTHER questions :
join hte club I'm still waiting on answeres to see if vorbis is compatable yet..

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
I am not talking about EXTERNAL text based formats , you "twisted" :) the descussio in that direction .
All I care is a text based format , like in OGM , internal even better.


Ahh so now you need all the players to support SRT/SUB *and* OGM? ;)


Btw: , may I turn once again your attention to my OTHER questions :

No. Certainly not. How proposterous! For shame! That's just.. just... I can't believe you asked me that? How could you?!

OK ok I'll scroll back later, right now I gotta run to the mall, it's like... totally fabulous dahhlings!

[fewtch]

Are you guys still developing/testing only for Windows XP, or have you (finally) included us millions of Win2k users in the fun? It couldn't be too hard to have a few dual-boot machines at your tester's convenience...

[DigitAl56K]

We're testing on lots of operating systems, including 2K, we just tested XP first :)

[baer999]

It's March ! Where is the new version ? ^^ No I know that it need a little bit time for development. I go on Sunday with my school class to field excursion, and i hope that there will be something new when I come back on the next next Friday :) that would be great !

[LordRPI]

As Digit stated somewhere else, March is the period of time between 3/1 and 3/31

I thought it was 2/29 today though...

[therealjoeblow]

Originally posted by bond
the facts (and opinions ;) ):

...(Snip)...

dxn you could have done this far more userfriendly...

Um... that would be called 'MATROSKA'...

[Sharktooth]

:eek:

[Bathrone]

Tick Tock

[bond]

Originally posted by Bathrone
Tick Tock striked for rule 11

[Cyberace]

Any updates on if DivX, Inc. will (or will not) add DXVA support in the DivX-decoder?, (hope I'm not off-topic with this request, if so I apploguise):

Microsoft DirectX Video Acceleration (DirectX VA) support

This feature/function request is both for hardware acceleration (motion compensation) and post-processing via Microsofts DirectX Video Acceleration (DXVA) API (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/dx81_c/directx_cpp/htm/directxvideoacceleration.asp), (be nice if the options would be added in the DivX codec config settings then auto-detect if the video cards supported it and to what extent);

Hope DivX codec developer(s) can look into if this could be fully or partially used for most of its supported codecs and graphic/video controllers?

Summery: Microsoft DirectX Video Acceleration (DXVA) allows DirectShow based software decoders to accelerate video playback directly on the graphics processors (GPU) if your graphics processor supports DXVA and has built-in technology to accelerate MPEG-4 ASP file playback, DXVA can provide (GPU) hardware acceleration. DXVA is an application programming interface (API) with a corresponding motion compensation (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/ddraw_2ab799f5-77bc-497c-9c64-68903bb940fb.xml.asp) device driver interface (DDI) for acceleration of digital video decoding. DDIs are also provided as part of DXVA; a deinterlacing DDI (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaref_d72180f0-84bc-4acf-b263-6f6c7e9f7b22.xml.asp) for deinterlacing and frame-rate conversion of video content, and hardware upconverting, and a to support ProcAmp DDI (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaref_557ca488-5ca9-4595-994f-18eafa171f77.xml.asp) control and postprocessing of video content. DXVA provides an interface definition focused on support of MPEG-2 "main profile" video (formally ITU-T H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2), but is also intended to support other key video codecs, like example, H.263 and H.261, and MPEG-1, and MPEG-4.

A good exampel of the benifits of using DVXA for video acceleration is that you could decode HDTV (720p/1080i) MPEG-4 with a PIII 1400Mhz CPU (possible even less), a task that would normaly require a P4 2,400Mhz CPU if the card does not support DVXA HWMC. Or if you have a faster CPU then you can record something at the same time as you are playing back something else on the same Windows PC, (as with DXVA most of the playback/decoding effort gets loaded onto the GPU so the CPU can be doing something more/else).

Other post-processing featutes achivable via DVXA (if the video adapter hardware support it):
- Hardware iDCT motion compensation and subpicture decoding
- Hardware based IDCT (Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform)
- IQ (Inverse quantization)
- Full-frame video playback of HDTV content on slow CPU's (1000Mhz+ ?)
- Independent hardware color controls for video overlay
- Hardware colorspace conversion (YUV 4:2:2 and 4:2:0)
- 5tap horizontal by 3tap vertical filtering
- 8:1 up/down scaling
- Perpixel color keying
- Multiple video windows supported for CSC and filtering
- Subpicture alphablended compositing
- Alpha-Blending Surface
- Real-time frame-rate conversion

Developer links:
- Microsoft Developer information on DirectX Video Acceleration (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaguide_30c21a63-691d-4ada-b469-08790b3b6c29.xml.asp)
- How Decoders Use IAMVideoAccelerator (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/howdecodersuseiamvideoaccelerator.asp)
- Mapping DirectX Video Acceleration to IAMVideoAccelerator (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/52mappingdirectxvatoiamvideoaccelerator.asp)
- DVXA API/DDI Specification (Rev 1.0) (DirectX 8.1 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/dx81_c/directx_cpp/htm/directxvideoacceleration.asp)
- DirectShow DirectX Video Acceleration Video Subtypes (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/directshow/htm/directxvideoaccelerationdxvavideosubtypes.asp)
- Enabling DirectX Video Acceleration in a custom player (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wmform95/htm/enablingdirectxvideoacceleration.asp)
- Windows Media Format 9.5 SDK Enabling DirectX Video Acceleration (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/wmform95/htm/enablingdirectxvideoacceleration.asp)
- DirectX Video Acceleration Video Subtypes (DirectX 9.0 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/directxvideoaccelerationdxvavideosubtypes.asp)
- IAMVideoAccelerator Operational Specification (DirectX 9.0 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/522directxvaiamvideoacceleratoroperationalspecification.asp)
- DirectX Video Acceleration Motion Compensation Callbacks (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/ddraw_28178ef1-ce67-476d-bdf0-f854fc342b4c.xml.asp)
- Calling the Deinterlace DDI from a User-Mode Component (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaguide_6691221e-f352-47f9-8345-b38d0955fd2a.xml.asp)
- Per-Pixel Alpha Blending (DirectX 9.0 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/perpixelalphablending.asp)
....AND MUCH MORE available on a Microsoft Development Network search (http://search.microsoft.com/search/results.aspx?qu=dxva&View=msdn&st=b&c=0&s=1&swc=0)

PS! I know mosy GPUs don't support DVXA HWMC for MPEG-4 yet but many more will sure come out soon...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Good question and nice post Cyberace ;)


Cheers

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Cyberace
PS! I know mosy GPUs don't support DVXA HWMC for MPEG-4 yet but many more will sure come out soon...

And here is the problem :)

We've taken a look at DXVA, and it does indeed look promising. The problem is that right now there isn't much hardware to back it up. Another problem comes with the demographic we'd be servicing: The people who could benefit from DXVA MPEG-4 with top-of-the-line 2005 graphics cards are the very same people who have the fastest CPUs, fastest RAM, fastest hard drives, etc. Do those people want/need acceleration?

Other factors include just how much is actually implemented on the card: If we can only leverage certain parts of the decoding in hardware, we have to suffer bus transfers etc. which reduce the benefit of the optimization. If you have to send a ton of video back and forth you're going to reduce your machines performance even if you're not using the CPU.

There are also some situations where you might not want to hand off the entire process to hardware, for example: Our post-processing might be nicer than that of the IC on the hardware. Then we have to start considering "What do our users want?".

We also have to prioritize DXVA inline with any other work we want to do!

So the DXVA question is a hard one to answer. I hate to leave yet another thread hanging with "we're looking into it", but at least that's better than "ain't gonna happen" ;)

[LordRPI]

REMOVED

[Cyberace]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K ...it does indeed look promising. The problem is that right now there isn't much hardware to back it up.Well latest ATI Radeoon-Series and VIA's Embedded Platforms/Mainboards (http://www.viaembedded.com) and GPU/IGP (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/graphics/)s for starters ;)




Originally posted by LordRPII'm near 1000% certain that any card supporting DXVA would also support at least DirectX Shaders, ARB Shaders and either ATI Smart Shader technology or nVIDIA's equivalent. You wouldn't have to pass video back through the AGP or PCI-X (extreme?) bus. Shader technology is more than suited to do post processingTrue, todays programmable shaders (2.0 and 3.0) are more than capable to blow your mind on this :D

[Sharktooth]

May be interesting: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95066

[Cyberace]

Not directly related but still interesting here in regards to new GPU's featuring hardware acceleration: ATI announced H.264/AVC hardware acceleration (http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseText.asp?compid=105421&releaseID=713852) :cool:

[WorBry]

Digital56K

I've been using DivX Fusion Build1528 on my PC running XP for some time, with no problems. However, I've run into a problem after installing (over DivX 5.21 Pro) on another PC running W2K Prof. Specifically, when configuring the codec, I get the error message "Problem encountered trying to find working directory C:\DivX". For sure, no default DivX temp file folder has been created on the C drive. If I create one myself and browse to it in the temp file path in Advanced settings, the encode job just crashes in VirtualDubMod. On uninstalling Fusion, 5.21 still works OK. I've tried re-installing 5.21 and then Fusion, but with the same error.

What to do?

Thanks,

[ChronoCross]

A Minor Workaround to it is simply to choose a different directory. such as the folder holding the video you want to encode.

[neo_anderson]

hey, i have some news, according to a website,divx 6 is finally coming out on June 6th! i do not know if it is fully reliable or true, but check it out here : http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=184#more-184

[ChronoCross]

hey, i have some news, according to a website,divx 6 is finally coming out on June 6th! i do not know if it is fully reliable or true, but check it out here : http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=184#more-184

lets hope with divx 6's release it'll have 10x the quality...I'm definitely not impressed with the beta's but we'll see.

[CrisCr0ss]

so these are the new DivX advances.

Still confused, will Divx have Menus/subtitles etc? (that would be cool for the less space of a dvd)
Also current DivX Certified player eg. DVP-642 will they be compatable?

[ChronoCross]

so these are the new DivX advances.

Still confused, will Divx have Menus/subtitles etc? (that would be cool for the less space of a dvd)
Also current DivX Certified player eg. DVP-642 will they be compatable?

If I remember correctly as long as you use one of divx 6's profiles(HT, HD, etc) it should play on current divx certified players.

[Bathrone]

This will be quite interesting. We have a new standard developing with H.264 being the selected codec for the next gen HD DVD / Bluray titles.

Will Divx manage to surive against H.264?

Will the computing grunt necessary to decode H.264 mean DVD players will also have the mips for HD Divx?

What relevance will Divx have in this new era?

[Cyberace]

Is June 14th and there is no news about divx 6 , any roadmap?Sounds like they won't release it this month, but they are hinting that it will be released 'soonish' enough, (maybe next month?) (http://forums.divx.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/911101651/m/614107742/p/4) :rolleyes:

[DrP]

The only news I have is that fusion is once again complaining about being an old expired BETA!

[Cyberace]

damn, my guess was wrong!, DivX 6 was released this month after all, late yesterday on the 14th of June as a matter of fact:

http://www.divx.com/divx/whatsnew.php
http://www.divx.com/divx/play/
http://www.divx.com/divx/create/
http://www.divx.com/divx/play/index.php?hpd6=player-en
http://www.divx.com/divx/converter/?hpd6=converter-en
http://www.divx.com/movies/revelations.php?hpd6=dmf-en

New forum discussion threadhttp://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=95862

[DrP]

Doh!!.