Announcing DivX Fusion and the DivX Media Format

[DigitAl56K]

Today we are releasing through the DivX Labs (http://www.divxlabs.com) website exciting new DivX technologies and products including:


DivX Media Format sample files
DivX Fusion Player
DivX Fusion Codec update
DivX Fusion SDK


The DivX Media Format is the beginning of a new era of DivX video. Visit DivX Labs today for access to demo content and creation tools.

[tdwest]

Wow great news thanks for the heads up!

[LordRPI]

No problem, and thankfully I just got my connection back at my apartment!

[fewtch]

Sorry for coming in so late, but will the Pro Fusion codec co-exist with DivX v5.2.1? It would be interesting to try it on Win2k (given it's only been tested on XP according to the site).

[nicco]

Cool,
but...

To play these sample files and access the DivX Media Format features you will first need to install the DivX Fusion Player.

frustrating...
:(

I hate this kind of uncompatibility "you will have amazing features, but you will use only my softwares" (it sounds like Micro$oft)

I wish you are planning to make this new cool features to be available also with other players!

Another question:
.MP4 format supports multiple audio track and menues too, why did you create another container?

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by nicco
I hate this kind of uncompatibility "you will have amazing features, but you will use only my softwares" (it sounds like Micro$oft)

I wish you are planning to make this new cool features to be available also with other players!


Don't worry. More players will support these amazing features really soon. We are already working on DivX 6 support in RadLight ;) Right now it just crashes the player :(

[bond]

the facts (and opinions ;) ):

- they use the .divx extension (indeed, the easiest way to exclude competing formats also based on .avi!)
- .divx files are .avi files (try renaming)
- video is mpeg-4 asp (as already produced by divx5)
- all audio is mp3 (1 vbr, two cbr)
- the audio is stored as normal audio streams in the .avi (all in all 3 in lastmanstanding), what about menu audio?
- the menu video is hidden somewhere (of course: .avi has problems storing multiple video streams "the normal way")
- for the subtitles dxn doesnt seem to use the way alexnoe used in avi-mux gui to store subs but an own one (they even created an own sub format, as if we dont have enough of them already...), this means that these subtitles will not be playable in any player except divx' own one
- if the files are currently tagged than dxn has invented a new .avi tagging format not compatible to standard avi tags (as setable in virtualdubmod), which millions of files use already...
- the divxplayer is not dshow based (menus and subtitles will only work in the divxplayer)

dxn you could have done this far more userfriendly...

[stephanV]

Originally posted by bond
the facts (and opinions ;) ):

- they use the .divx extension (indeed, the easiest way to exclude competing formats also based on .avi!)
- .divx files are .avi files (try renaming)


again, it are not AVI files, in the same way OGM files arent Ogg either. A different extension is surely not a bad thing.

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by bond
- the divxplayer is not dshow based (menus and subtitles will only work in the divxplayer)

Uhm, no that's not entirely correct. I have yet to see the actual implementation of subtitles and menus but we've been told DXN guys are working on a set of interfaces that will allow us to easily implement support for these new features in our player.

[bond]

Originally posted by DAvenger
Uhm, no that's not entirely correct. I have yet to see the actual implementation of subtitles and menus but we've been told DXN guys are working on a set of interfaces that will allow us to easily implement support for these new features in our player. well the divxplayer doesnt install a new avi splitter or any other dshow filter that looks like being able to handle the menus, subs aso...
i think its currently done internally by the divxplayer

btw these .divx files play fine with the default windows .avi splitter in graphedit (of course without subs and menus)

[Geza Anda]

any chance the existing divx certified players will be updated to play all the new stuff (subtitles, second audio stream) ?

[bond]

Originally posted by Geza Anda
any chance the existing divx certified players will be updated to play all the new stuff (subtitles, second audio stream) ? - if your player already handles multiple audio streams in .avi (has been possible for years to create such stream. dxn now presents it as something new...) than it will handle these too (as its exactly the same)
- dxn wrote that most divx certified players already support these subtitles (actually subtitles in avi have been possible for some time too already in .avi, but dxn chose to use another way not compliant to the existing method and not compliant to the default windows dshow avi splitter)

[SeeMoreDigital]

LOL,

VLC can't play the LastManStanding file at all, even when renamed to .AVI

ShowTime player displays the video element perfectly, but plays "all three" audio tracks, at the same time. And can't read the subs!

MediaPlayer Classic displays the video element perfectly, can select between "all three" audio tracks. But can't read the subs (if it has subs)!

Windows Media Player 9/10... well enough said :D

AVI-mux was able to extract the audio streams but not re-mux just the video stream.

mp4UI could import the entire file, but (of course) b0rks the audio. Meaning each track has to be imported separately.


That's about it... so far......but my brain is not working right at the moment.

EDIT: DivX Player 2.6 does not play the audio element of the file properly and can't select between tracks :eek:


Cheers

[stephanV]

like i said these are not ordinary AVI files... :)

they only play fine in the DivX fusion beta player

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by stephanV
like i said these are not ordinary AVI files... :)

they only play fine in the DivX fusion beta player

Blah, lets' clear this up. The DivX Media Format files *will* be able to be played back in other players including windows media player and any other player that wants to support it. Yes right now it only plays back in our player *well*. That's why it's a beta! :) If you installed the *latest* fusion codec and then drag one of these files on WMP you'll see that a little systray tool will show up. If you look at this tool you'll see that there are menu items ready for the new features once we're finished with the plugin. We designed DMF with the goal of being able to playback the features in other players thus the SDK. So *yes* we intended and intend for these files to be playable in other players. Just because you don't see it this very second doesn't mean it isn't going to happen shortly. Check out the systray tool in WMP and you'll see this was our intention all along. We're all advocates of making sure we can playback files in whatever our player of choice is. I for one use WMP and VLC.

Darrius

[stephanV]

of course, it will be more widely supported, i will not argue what that. im actually hoping for it.

that doesnt make it AVI though :)

im all for the divx extension, its much clearer.

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by stephanV
of course, it will be more widely supported, i will not argue what that. im actually hoping for it.

that doesnt make it AVI though :)

im all for the divx extension, its much clearer.

Yeah you're right from a techical perspecitve you can call it an extended RIFF. We did it this way because it makes support of the format much simpler since everyone is very familiar with it inlcuding the hardware manufacturers who have extremely tight hardware and cost constraints. Additionally this also makes software support very easy. The great thing is that since they already supported .avi it was very easy to extend support to .divx and support the new features. As someone already mentioned support of subs, and multiple audio tracks is already in place on devices that are being sold today. I completely agree calling it .divx is much clearer. I like knowing that it means that the file is likely to contain the new media features.

D

[bond]

well calling the files .avi would have done it too and wouldnt have created incompatiblities (caused by the different extension) with existing avi tools

also what about people wanting to use xvid (or any other mpeg-4 codec) as video codec in that files, should they use the .divx extension...

[Sharktooth]

I'm for the .divx too.
There's already too much confusion in the container "world".
.divx could be similar to .avi (well it's an extention) but at least you know what you need to play it back...

[bond]

an additional extension will not help reducing the confusion :D

actually it will not take long till people start editing these files in virtualdub ("how can i cut..."), changing the different streams, aso...
after all its still 100% normal .avi with an extra menu and subs stored in the riff tree

bingo :D

[LordRPI]

Yes, it does make things simpler to deal with, especially for the average no0b like myself. We wanted to make it clear that a .divx has these new features.

[thekid]

Originally posted by bond

actually it will not take long till people start editing these files in virtualdub ("how can i cut..."), changing the different streams, aso...
after all its still 100% normal .avi with an extra menu and subs stored in the riff tree



Exactly!

we wanted to make this format userfriendly and easy for applications to use. Some already look for the .divx file extension and many will be able to easily add support for the features as the fomat is built from the AVI spec.

thekid...

[stephanV]

people will be confused why VirtualDub gives funny warnings and why they lose their menus and possible second video stream.

[DigitAl56K]

I think one of the coolest things about the file format (and actually a strong reason for doing it the way that we did) is that you can prep all your content right now, today, with all of our new features and enjoy that on your PC, while retaining the ability to also burn it and take it into your living room and play the main feature on your DivX DVD Player - even watch it with subtitles of your choice. Then, a little later in the year, update your DVD player for full DivX Media Format support, menus and all. Incidentally, we do have technology to import .sub and .srt subtitles. If our muxer doesn't expose that yet it probably will soon.

We all got certified DVD players for Christmas, and it's amazing how much better the experience of watching movies on your TV instead of a computer really is.

It's an exciting time for DivX, and with regards to the DirectShow support: I personally can't wait to get full DivX Media Format support in BS Player and Radlight (DAvenger, get back to work!!) ;)

[CruNcher]

@DigitAl56K
but this would also have been possible with .mp4 see the GPAC project and bonds test samples

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by CruNcher
@DigitAl56K
but this would also have been possible with .mp4 see the GPAC project and bonds test samples Agreed!

I can't see myself using the DivX Media Format, unless it makes it into stand-alones or into media streaming devices!

I want to view my video content on a screen in my living room, not stuck behind a small PC screen or laptop!


Cheers

[thekid]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Agreed!

I can't see myself using the DivX Media Format, unless it makes it into stand-alones or into media streaming devices!

I want to view my video content on a screen in my living room, not stuck behind a small PC screen or laptop!


Cheers

Double Agreed!

This is why we created the format in the first place. We have been working with the hardware manufactuers from day one on this and have built many of these features into the certification platform already.

The goal of the format was to create a powerful format that could be played on all of the millions of certified devices in the market today.

thekid..

[bond]

so the existing devices will play the menus too (at least the newer ones)?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by thekid
Double Agreed!

This is why we created the format in the first place. We have been working with the hardware manufactuers from day one on this and have built many of these features into the certification platform already.

The goal of the format was to create a powerful format that could be played on all of the millions of certified devices in the market today.

thekid.. If this is the case then I wish you guys well :D

When do we get to know which DivX certified players can cope with these files... so some of us can start experimenting?


Cheers

[thekid]

all players should be able to handle the subtitles and audio streams today.

There are tools within the SDK to mux in external subtitels into existing content if you want to start playing with them.

New players will be able to handle the full format spcification out of hte box including menus et al. Existing players will be able to handle them with a firmware upgrade.

Note that current players that can't read menus should skip them and play the main title.

thekid...

[bond]

smart :)

will there be a tool that does automatic transcoding from dvd to .divx with keeping (and maybe editing) menus?

[Mr_Schizo]

- all audio is mp3 (1 vbr, two cbr)
so no multichannel solution?
wow,thats bad!
but who cares as long as we have ND :)

[Bez]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
I'm for the .divx too.
There's already too much confusion in the container "world".
.divx could be similar to .avi (well it's an extention) but at least you know what you need to play it back...

Agreed.

I honestly don't really understand why people get so hung up on the file extension issue. So .divx is based on .avi and therefore similar to it. So what? Though similar, there are definitely differences between the files, so why not use a different file extension to note those differences?

.html, .txt, and .xml are all "just text files." Why isn't anyone arguing that we should rename all HTML files to use the .txt extension?

:bez

[Jeffster]

Interesting...

I tried playing the sample in my standalone (DVP640k) and it recognized and played the .divx file extension no problem.

More interesting... it recognized the subtitle files and I could switch between them (and also the audio tracks).

Even more interesting... the subtitles have a black outline and the font is larger (than external srt subs), AND line breaks are respected in these muxed srt files!

I quickly made a tiny sample of my own, using the commandline muxing tool included in the "MakingOf..." .zip and that sample works too (which is how I know line breaks are respected).


Edit:
Of course no menus yet.

[LordRPI]

Great to hear that you're trying this out!

(yes, thekid mentioned that you should be able to use subtitles and multiple audio tracks without a problem on current standalones.)

[DigitAl56K]

Adrian documented the command line switches for the Fuse muxer today, which you can find in The Making Of Last Man Standing.zip.

The documentation is available here:
http://labs.divx.com/archives/fuse.html

[jggimi]

Well, my standalone is a JVC XV-NP10S, and therefore I have lowered expectations. (IMO, this product did not get sufficient QA before being released into production, and its problems are not being properly addressed.)

I will try your samples out this weekend ... we'll see.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by LordRPI
Yes, it does make things simpler to deal with, especially for the average no0b like myself. We wanted to make it clear that a .divx has these new features.
Maybe I'm a cynic (actually I'm definitely one), but are you sure the main point of this new stuff isn't to boost popularity of DivX VOD rentals, and at the same time make it harder for people to create their own 'free' DivX files?

[thekid]

Originally posted by fewtch
Maybe I'm a cynic (actually I'm definitely one), but are you sure the main point of this new stuff isn't to boost popularity of DivX VOD rentals, and at the same time make it harder for people to create their own 'free' DivX files?

yes and no

yes, we believe that an online rental or purchase of a video should provide an experience that is as good if not better than that of a traditional rental or purchase. so we created these features with that in mind.

and no it shouldn't be hard for you to create your own "free" divx files. We are giving you the SDK! How is that making it harder to create DivX files? We have given you everything you need TO make .DivX files. We want to make it easy for everyone to create .divx files with all of the features with any software they like. Later this year you will start to see all of our software partners including the technology that you see here to make it easy to create your own files

thekid...

[nicco]

Divx, are you planning to develop an user-friendly GUI to create full compliant .divx files (with menues, multiple tracks,...)?

How long we should wait for mediaplayers compatibility?

[billou2k]

As posted in the previous build thread, there is still a problem with the encoding of interlaced content in "Better Quality" "Extreme Quality" and "Insane".

In the previous build, the encoding worked with no errors but the decoding had blocks all over the place (tried with divx and other decoders)

Only Balanced mode (Qpel on or off) produced a file that could be played properly.

In the new build, I ve got VDUB crashing when setting the "Better Quality" mode or higher, with interlaced content.

What's enabled in those modes that could make the encoding crash or produce these decoding problems?

[bond]

Originally posted by Bez
So .divx is based on .avi and therefore similar to it. So what? Though similar, there are definitely differences between the files, so why not use a different file extension to note those differences.divx files are .avi files extended by adding menus and subs in a way that doesnt make the files break the avi specs! any existing avi renderer can handle these files already (without the menu and subs of course)
its not a new format!

[nexx]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital

That's about it... so far......but my brain is not working right at the moment.


MPlayer detects and plays all the audio streams.
It also detects 13 additional 'video' streams with a fourcc of DXSB. It will dump the smaller ones (~25kb - menus? XSUB subtitles?) but wont extract the larger ones (29.97fps, 1280x720 - other video streams?).

[stephanV]

Originally posted by bond
.divx files are .avi files extended by adding menus and subs in a way that doesnt make the files break the avi specs! any existing avi renderer can handle these files already (without the menu and subs of course)
its not a new format!

Just not true, Gabest splitter b0rks on it, VLC too. Not any renderer can handle this. Especially the second AVI segment (the HD portion) is completely b0rked. It uses 1idx to indicate the index (should be idx1) and chunks start with dc00 and wb01 instead of 00dc and 01wb (and so on). No existing AVI parser has to handle this. Haali's splitter does though, but thats just because it ignores chunk starts :). The subtitles are stored as video streams with dwRate and dwScale both set to 0, which doesnt make a whole lot of sense either (at least not to AVI), so this could b0rk splitters too (causes devision by 0).

These files definetly break the AVI specs, while they do have a certain backward compatibility if your splitter has a lot of error handling. The menu portion of the file is completely new.

Using .divx is just the only good solution. There is just too much in there that isnt AVI.

[bond]

Originally posted by stephanV
These files definetly break the AVI specs, while they do have a certain backward compatibility if your splitter has a lot of error handling. The menu portion of the file is completely new.well as i said the menu and subs will not work...
why will they not work? because they are stored in a not compliant way of course, i didnt say anything different

still the main movie and the audio streams are handled fine with the default windows avi splitter from m$
as the existing hardware avi splitter do (as dxn claims)

There is just too much in there that isnt AVI.well the important part: the movie video and the movie audio is stored as a 100% normal avi
also its a main goal of dxn with this to aim at backwards compatibility to existing avi renderers (might be that some smaller ones have problems (this will surely be fixed soon), but the main ones are handling it)

also i doubt that anyone will have the bandwidth to store the same movie two times in a file:
one time normal resolution and than in HD. this is mainly a theoretical discussion...

[stephanV]

unfortunately it seems to be the subs (devision by 0?) that b0rk both VLC and Gabest's splitter.

That is not to say it will never work with VLC, but not in just a "normal" AVI way.

[Cyberace]

Are there any developers out there who are interested in implementing DivX Media Format support into Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) for us?
XboxMediaCenter (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com), the XBMC Project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbmc) is a free open source project, XBMC GUI is C++/DirectX based with a C based MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu)-core.

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Cyberace
Are there any developers out there who are interested in implementing DivX Media Format support into Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) for us?
XboxMediaCenter (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com), the XBMC Project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbmc) is a free open source project, XBMC GUI is C++/DirectX based with a C based MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu)-core.
it would be also interesting the x264 implementation to play back AVC.

[bond]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
it would be also interesting the x264 implementation to play back AVC. afaik the xbmc already supports playback of avc-in-mp4 (eg created with x264 and muxed with mp4creator)

[Sharktooth]

Oops... you're right...
I didnt check the xbmc updates for a while...