Announcing DivX Fusion and the DivX Media Format

[DigitAl56K]

Today we are releasing through the DivX Labs (http://www.divxlabs.com) website exciting new DivX technologies and products including:


DivX Media Format sample files
DivX Fusion Player
DivX Fusion Codec update
DivX Fusion SDK


The DivX Media Format is the beginning of a new era of DivX video. Visit DivX Labs today for access to demo content and creation tools.

[tdwest]

Wow great news thanks for the heads up!

[LordRPI]

No problem, and thankfully I just got my connection back at my apartment!

[fewtch]

Sorry for coming in so late, but will the Pro Fusion codec co-exist with DivX v5.2.1? It would be interesting to try it on Win2k (given it's only been tested on XP according to the site).

[nicco]

Cool,
but...

To play these sample files and access the DivX Media Format features you will first need to install the DivX Fusion Player.

frustrating...
:(

I hate this kind of uncompatibility "you will have amazing features, but you will use only my softwares" (it sounds like Micro$oft)

I wish you are planning to make this new cool features to be available also with other players!

Another question:
.MP4 format supports multiple audio track and menues too, why did you create another container?

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by nicco
I hate this kind of uncompatibility "you will have amazing features, but you will use only my softwares" (it sounds like Micro$oft)

I wish you are planning to make this new cool features to be available also with other players!


Don't worry. More players will support these amazing features really soon. We are already working on DivX 6 support in RadLight ;) Right now it just crashes the player :(

[bond]

the facts (and opinions ;) ):

- they use the .divx extension (indeed, the easiest way to exclude competing formats also based on .avi!)
- .divx files are .avi files (try renaming)
- video is mpeg-4 asp (as already produced by divx5)
- all audio is mp3 (1 vbr, two cbr)
- the audio is stored as normal audio streams in the .avi (all in all 3 in lastmanstanding), what about menu audio?
- the menu video is hidden somewhere (of course: .avi has problems storing multiple video streams "the normal way")
- for the subtitles dxn doesnt seem to use the way alexnoe used in avi-mux gui to store subs but an own one (they even created an own sub format, as if we dont have enough of them already...), this means that these subtitles will not be playable in any player except divx' own one
- if the files are currently tagged than dxn has invented a new .avi tagging format not compatible to standard avi tags (as setable in virtualdubmod), which millions of files use already...
- the divxplayer is not dshow based (menus and subtitles will only work in the divxplayer)

dxn you could have done this far more userfriendly...

[stephanV]

Originally posted by bond
the facts (and opinions ;) ):

- they use the .divx extension (indeed, the easiest way to exclude competing formats also based on .avi!)
- .divx files are .avi files (try renaming)


again, it are not AVI files, in the same way OGM files arent Ogg either. A different extension is surely not a bad thing.

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by bond
- the divxplayer is not dshow based (menus and subtitles will only work in the divxplayer)

Uhm, no that's not entirely correct. I have yet to see the actual implementation of subtitles and menus but we've been told DXN guys are working on a set of interfaces that will allow us to easily implement support for these new features in our player.

[bond]

Originally posted by DAvenger
Uhm, no that's not entirely correct. I have yet to see the actual implementation of subtitles and menus but we've been told DXN guys are working on a set of interfaces that will allow us to easily implement support for these new features in our player. well the divxplayer doesnt install a new avi splitter or any other dshow filter that looks like being able to handle the menus, subs aso...
i think its currently done internally by the divxplayer

btw these .divx files play fine with the default windows .avi splitter in graphedit (of course without subs and menus)

[Geza Anda]

any chance the existing divx certified players will be updated to play all the new stuff (subtitles, second audio stream) ?

[bond]

Originally posted by Geza Anda
any chance the existing divx certified players will be updated to play all the new stuff (subtitles, second audio stream) ? - if your player already handles multiple audio streams in .avi (has been possible for years to create such stream. dxn now presents it as something new...) than it will handle these too (as its exactly the same)
- dxn wrote that most divx certified players already support these subtitles (actually subtitles in avi have been possible for some time too already in .avi, but dxn chose to use another way not compliant to the existing method and not compliant to the default windows dshow avi splitter)

[SeeMoreDigital]

LOL,

VLC can't play the LastManStanding file at all, even when renamed to .AVI

ShowTime player displays the video element perfectly, but plays "all three" audio tracks, at the same time. And can't read the subs!

MediaPlayer Classic displays the video element perfectly, can select between "all three" audio tracks. But can't read the subs (if it has subs)!

Windows Media Player 9/10... well enough said :D

AVI-mux was able to extract the audio streams but not re-mux just the video stream.

mp4UI could import the entire file, but (of course) b0rks the audio. Meaning each track has to be imported separately.


That's about it... so far......but my brain is not working right at the moment.

EDIT: DivX Player 2.6 does not play the audio element of the file properly and can't select between tracks :eek:


Cheers

[stephanV]

like i said these are not ordinary AVI files... :)

they only play fine in the DivX fusion beta player

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by stephanV
like i said these are not ordinary AVI files... :)

they only play fine in the DivX fusion beta player

Blah, lets' clear this up. The DivX Media Format files *will* be able to be played back in other players including windows media player and any other player that wants to support it. Yes right now it only plays back in our player *well*. That's why it's a beta! :) If you installed the *latest* fusion codec and then drag one of these files on WMP you'll see that a little systray tool will show up. If you look at this tool you'll see that there are menu items ready for the new features once we're finished with the plugin. We designed DMF with the goal of being able to playback the features in other players thus the SDK. So *yes* we intended and intend for these files to be playable in other players. Just because you don't see it this very second doesn't mean it isn't going to happen shortly. Check out the systray tool in WMP and you'll see this was our intention all along. We're all advocates of making sure we can playback files in whatever our player of choice is. I for one use WMP and VLC.

Darrius

[stephanV]

of course, it will be more widely supported, i will not argue what that. im actually hoping for it.

that doesnt make it AVI though :)

im all for the divx extension, its much clearer.

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by stephanV
of course, it will be more widely supported, i will not argue what that. im actually hoping for it.

that doesnt make it AVI though :)

im all for the divx extension, its much clearer.

Yeah you're right from a techical perspecitve you can call it an extended RIFF. We did it this way because it makes support of the format much simpler since everyone is very familiar with it inlcuding the hardware manufacturers who have extremely tight hardware and cost constraints. Additionally this also makes software support very easy. The great thing is that since they already supported .avi it was very easy to extend support to .divx and support the new features. As someone already mentioned support of subs, and multiple audio tracks is already in place on devices that are being sold today. I completely agree calling it .divx is much clearer. I like knowing that it means that the file is likely to contain the new media features.

D

[bond]

well calling the files .avi would have done it too and wouldnt have created incompatiblities (caused by the different extension) with existing avi tools

also what about people wanting to use xvid (or any other mpeg-4 codec) as video codec in that files, should they use the .divx extension...

[Sharktooth]

I'm for the .divx too.
There's already too much confusion in the container "world".
.divx could be similar to .avi (well it's an extention) but at least you know what you need to play it back...

[bond]

an additional extension will not help reducing the confusion :D

actually it will not take long till people start editing these files in virtualdub ("how can i cut..."), changing the different streams, aso...
after all its still 100% normal .avi with an extra menu and subs stored in the riff tree

bingo :D

[LordRPI]

Yes, it does make things simpler to deal with, especially for the average no0b like myself. We wanted to make it clear that a .divx has these new features.

[thekid]

Originally posted by bond

actually it will not take long till people start editing these files in virtualdub ("how can i cut..."), changing the different streams, aso...
after all its still 100% normal .avi with an extra menu and subs stored in the riff tree



Exactly!

we wanted to make this format userfriendly and easy for applications to use. Some already look for the .divx file extension and many will be able to easily add support for the features as the fomat is built from the AVI spec.

thekid...

[stephanV]

people will be confused why VirtualDub gives funny warnings and why they lose their menus and possible second video stream.

[DigitAl56K]

I think one of the coolest things about the file format (and actually a strong reason for doing it the way that we did) is that you can prep all your content right now, today, with all of our new features and enjoy that on your PC, while retaining the ability to also burn it and take it into your living room and play the main feature on your DivX DVD Player - even watch it with subtitles of your choice. Then, a little later in the year, update your DVD player for full DivX Media Format support, menus and all. Incidentally, we do have technology to import .sub and .srt subtitles. If our muxer doesn't expose that yet it probably will soon.

We all got certified DVD players for Christmas, and it's amazing how much better the experience of watching movies on your TV instead of a computer really is.

It's an exciting time for DivX, and with regards to the DirectShow support: I personally can't wait to get full DivX Media Format support in BS Player and Radlight (DAvenger, get back to work!!) ;)

[CruNcher]

@DigitAl56K
but this would also have been possible with .mp4 see the GPAC project and bonds test samples

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by CruNcher
@DigitAl56K
but this would also have been possible with .mp4 see the GPAC project and bonds test samples Agreed!

I can't see myself using the DivX Media Format, unless it makes it into stand-alones or into media streaming devices!

I want to view my video content on a screen in my living room, not stuck behind a small PC screen or laptop!


Cheers

[thekid]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Agreed!

I can't see myself using the DivX Media Format, unless it makes it into stand-alones or into media streaming devices!

I want to view my video content on a screen in my living room, not stuck behind a small PC screen or laptop!


Cheers

Double Agreed!

This is why we created the format in the first place. We have been working with the hardware manufactuers from day one on this and have built many of these features into the certification platform already.

The goal of the format was to create a powerful format that could be played on all of the millions of certified devices in the market today.

thekid..

[bond]

so the existing devices will play the menus too (at least the newer ones)?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by thekid
Double Agreed!

This is why we created the format in the first place. We have been working with the hardware manufactuers from day one on this and have built many of these features into the certification platform already.

The goal of the format was to create a powerful format that could be played on all of the millions of certified devices in the market today.

thekid.. If this is the case then I wish you guys well :D

When do we get to know which DivX certified players can cope with these files... so some of us can start experimenting?


Cheers

[thekid]

all players should be able to handle the subtitles and audio streams today.

There are tools within the SDK to mux in external subtitels into existing content if you want to start playing with them.

New players will be able to handle the full format spcification out of hte box including menus et al. Existing players will be able to handle them with a firmware upgrade.

Note that current players that can't read menus should skip them and play the main title.

thekid...

[bond]

smart :)

will there be a tool that does automatic transcoding from dvd to .divx with keeping (and maybe editing) menus?

[Mr_Schizo]

- all audio is mp3 (1 vbr, two cbr)
so no multichannel solution?
wow,thats bad!
but who cares as long as we have ND :)

[Bez]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
I'm for the .divx too.
There's already too much confusion in the container "world".
.divx could be similar to .avi (well it's an extention) but at least you know what you need to play it back...

Agreed.

I honestly don't really understand why people get so hung up on the file extension issue. So .divx is based on .avi and therefore similar to it. So what? Though similar, there are definitely differences between the files, so why not use a different file extension to note those differences?

.html, .txt, and .xml are all "just text files." Why isn't anyone arguing that we should rename all HTML files to use the .txt extension?

:bez

[Jeffster]

Interesting...

I tried playing the sample in my standalone (DVP640k) and it recognized and played the .divx file extension no problem.

More interesting... it recognized the subtitle files and I could switch between them (and also the audio tracks).

Even more interesting... the subtitles have a black outline and the font is larger (than external srt subs), AND line breaks are respected in these muxed srt files!

I quickly made a tiny sample of my own, using the commandline muxing tool included in the "MakingOf..." .zip and that sample works too (which is how I know line breaks are respected).


Edit:
Of course no menus yet.

[LordRPI]

Great to hear that you're trying this out!

(yes, thekid mentioned that you should be able to use subtitles and multiple audio tracks without a problem on current standalones.)

[DigitAl56K]

Adrian documented the command line switches for the Fuse muxer today, which you can find in The Making Of Last Man Standing.zip.

The documentation is available here:
http://labs.divx.com/archives/fuse.html

[jggimi]

Well, my standalone is a JVC XV-NP10S, and therefore I have lowered expectations. (IMO, this product did not get sufficient QA before being released into production, and its problems are not being properly addressed.)

I will try your samples out this weekend ... we'll see.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by LordRPI
Yes, it does make things simpler to deal with, especially for the average no0b like myself. We wanted to make it clear that a .divx has these new features.
Maybe I'm a cynic (actually I'm definitely one), but are you sure the main point of this new stuff isn't to boost popularity of DivX VOD rentals, and at the same time make it harder for people to create their own 'free' DivX files?

[thekid]

Originally posted by fewtch
Maybe I'm a cynic (actually I'm definitely one), but are you sure the main point of this new stuff isn't to boost popularity of DivX VOD rentals, and at the same time make it harder for people to create their own 'free' DivX files?

yes and no

yes, we believe that an online rental or purchase of a video should provide an experience that is as good if not better than that of a traditional rental or purchase. so we created these features with that in mind.

and no it shouldn't be hard for you to create your own "free" divx files. We are giving you the SDK! How is that making it harder to create DivX files? We have given you everything you need TO make .DivX files. We want to make it easy for everyone to create .divx files with all of the features with any software they like. Later this year you will start to see all of our software partners including the technology that you see here to make it easy to create your own files

thekid...

[nicco]

Divx, are you planning to develop an user-friendly GUI to create full compliant .divx files (with menues, multiple tracks,...)?

How long we should wait for mediaplayers compatibility?

[billou2k]

As posted in the previous build thread, there is still a problem with the encoding of interlaced content in "Better Quality" "Extreme Quality" and "Insane".

In the previous build, the encoding worked with no errors but the decoding had blocks all over the place (tried with divx and other decoders)

Only Balanced mode (Qpel on or off) produced a file that could be played properly.

In the new build, I ve got VDUB crashing when setting the "Better Quality" mode or higher, with interlaced content.

What's enabled in those modes that could make the encoding crash or produce these decoding problems?

[bond]

Originally posted by Bez
So .divx is based on .avi and therefore similar to it. So what? Though similar, there are definitely differences between the files, so why not use a different file extension to note those differences.divx files are .avi files extended by adding menus and subs in a way that doesnt make the files break the avi specs! any existing avi renderer can handle these files already (without the menu and subs of course)
its not a new format!

[nexx]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital

That's about it... so far......but my brain is not working right at the moment.


MPlayer detects and plays all the audio streams.
It also detects 13 additional 'video' streams with a fourcc of DXSB. It will dump the smaller ones (~25kb - menus? XSUB subtitles?) but wont extract the larger ones (29.97fps, 1280x720 - other video streams?).

[stephanV]

Originally posted by bond
.divx files are .avi files extended by adding menus and subs in a way that doesnt make the files break the avi specs! any existing avi renderer can handle these files already (without the menu and subs of course)
its not a new format!

Just not true, Gabest splitter b0rks on it, VLC too. Not any renderer can handle this. Especially the second AVI segment (the HD portion) is completely b0rked. It uses 1idx to indicate the index (should be idx1) and chunks start with dc00 and wb01 instead of 00dc and 01wb (and so on). No existing AVI parser has to handle this. Haali's splitter does though, but thats just because it ignores chunk starts :). The subtitles are stored as video streams with dwRate and dwScale both set to 0, which doesnt make a whole lot of sense either (at least not to AVI), so this could b0rk splitters too (causes devision by 0).

These files definetly break the AVI specs, while they do have a certain backward compatibility if your splitter has a lot of error handling. The menu portion of the file is completely new.

Using .divx is just the only good solution. There is just too much in there that isnt AVI.

[bond]

Originally posted by stephanV
These files definetly break the AVI specs, while they do have a certain backward compatibility if your splitter has a lot of error handling. The menu portion of the file is completely new.well as i said the menu and subs will not work...
why will they not work? because they are stored in a not compliant way of course, i didnt say anything different

still the main movie and the audio streams are handled fine with the default windows avi splitter from m$
as the existing hardware avi splitter do (as dxn claims)

There is just too much in there that isnt AVI.well the important part: the movie video and the movie audio is stored as a 100% normal avi
also its a main goal of dxn with this to aim at backwards compatibility to existing avi renderers (might be that some smaller ones have problems (this will surely be fixed soon), but the main ones are handling it)

also i doubt that anyone will have the bandwidth to store the same movie two times in a file:
one time normal resolution and than in HD. this is mainly a theoretical discussion...

[stephanV]

unfortunately it seems to be the subs (devision by 0?) that b0rk both VLC and Gabest's splitter.

That is not to say it will never work with VLC, but not in just a "normal" AVI way.

[Cyberace]

Are there any developers out there who are interested in implementing DivX Media Format support into Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) for us?
XboxMediaCenter (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com), the XBMC Project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbmc) is a free open source project, XBMC GUI is C++/DirectX based with a C based MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu)-core.

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Cyberace
Are there any developers out there who are interested in implementing DivX Media Format support into Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) for us?
XboxMediaCenter (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com), the XBMC Project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbmc) is a free open source project, XBMC GUI is C++/DirectX based with a C based MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu)-core.
it would be also interesting the x264 implementation to play back AVC.

[bond]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
it would be also interesting the x264 implementation to play back AVC. afaik the xbmc already supports playback of avc-in-mp4 (eg created with x264 and muxed with mp4creator)

[Sharktooth]

Oops... you're right...
I didnt check the xbmc updates for a while...

[LordRPI]

Originally posted by bond
also i doubt that anyone will have the bandwidth to store the same movie two times in a file:
one time normal resolution and than in HD. this is mainly a theoretical discussion...

Yes, this was mainly an example that it could be done. I do believe there were some questions regarding having multiple video tracks with different resolutions on a http://forums.divx.com thread. I hope this clears that up as well.

[AsTimeGoesBy]

I'm looking forward to test this build, but as before some questions are still open specially...

a) Will there be any tool for DivX Fusion similar to 'EKG' to set personal bitrate preferences?

b) Why does the DivX log (map.log) file for a 2-pass encoding have an entry 'nframes=#' whereof this # is equal to the number of frames plus 2?
(It seems that there also are 2 more rows than really existing frames.)


You may wonder about question b)... i try to make up my mind if i shell start the adventure to write my own C++ tool to save my preferences i have set by EKG to a text file for further use, eg. then a new DivX is released in future.

[Shinigami-Sama]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I want to view my video content on a screen in my living room, not stuck behind a small PC screen or laptop!

speaking of watching this on a tv...
you still use fullscreeen video overlay I assume/hope
seeing as how I donlt have a SAplayer and won;t for for a while because of the price seeing as how I;m a student...
anyways I'll check when I get time later today
hope it works :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Shingami-Sama
speaking of watching this on a tv...
you still use fullscreeen video overlay I assume/hope
seeing as how I donlt have a SAplayer and won;t for for a while because of the price seeing as how I;m a student...
anyways I'll check when I get time later today
hope it works :) I can use my Sigma Xcard (for hardware playback) or MediaPlayer Classic or ShowTime (for software playback).

I also have a wide range of connection options open to me for use with my 42" screen, such as, VGA, DVI, component RGB, component YUV, S-video and composite :)


Cheers

[Ishan]

My god!
I just found this topic and well I'm totaly stuned!
Why the hell do you still use that crappy old avi format when standard stuff like .mp4 exist? Can't you just use what's already available and heavily documented? (and don't complain about patent fee balbla, if you are using MPEG-4 ASP in DIVX you already payed for it, am I wrong?)
I can't force anyone to do anything but hacking old stuff cause it's easier and conveniant is not really respectfull of your present and futur customers.

My point, sorry if I sound dumb or anything...

[stephanV]

Originally posted by Ishan
(and don't complain about patent fee balbla, if you are using MPEG-4 ASP in DIVX you already payed for it, am I wrong?)
yes you are :)

while the container itself is free from fees, im not sure about interactive content.

[thekid]

I hate to keep re-iterating this, but let me try one more time and i'll try to be more clear

Originally posted by Ishan

Why the hell do you still use that crappy old avi format when standard stuff like .mp4 exist?

Because the AVI format is widely adopted and used in numerous software applications and is adopted in hardware. .mp4 is from a standards body but is anything but standard. Simply browse some of the other forums in on doom9 or ask Bond or Seemoredigital. You can see the pain everyone goes through in trying to get an mp4 stream to play the same way on two different software or hardware players. We stress interoperability in the DivX Certification platform above all.

Originally posted by Ishan

...hacking old stuff cause it's easier and conveniant is not really respectfull of your present and futur customers.


While perhaps building off of the AVI specification is not what you wanted, we did it with every intention of being respectful of present and future customers. If we had switched to MP4 all of the 20+ million DivX Certified devices out on the market now would become useless for the new format. Building off of AVI and keeping our new format backwards compatible was the best option when thinking about our users. We want all users who have DVD players today to be able to take advantage of the new features.

we are trying to give users what they want in a way that is both easy to support from software and hardware providers and doens't break all existing implimentations out in the market today.

thekid...

[bond]

edit: as thekid said, its understandable they kept on using .avi, as all the existing divx certified players are based on it, and it wouldnt surely be a wise decision in dxn to make all these incompliant with new files
thats why we all have to hope that nero will finally give us 100% compliant mpeg-4 menus ;)

Originally posted by stephanV
while the container itself is free from fees, im not sure about interactive contentmpeg-4 systems is not license free, but its standardised and very powerful
and systems is not only about interactivity, it can also do all sorts of animations (eg like flash)

Originally posted by thekid
You can see the pain everyone goes through in trying to get an mp4 stream to play the same way on two different software or hardware players.i dont really know of these problems...
basically the main mp4 creator tools all produce compliant .mp4 files, not causing problems on software and hardware (mp4ui has some problems (mainly with b-frames), yes, thats why i always tell people not to use it)

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by Ishan
My god!
I just found this topic and well I'm totaly stuned!
Why the hell do you still use that crappy old avi format when standard stuff like .mp4 exist? Can't you just use what's already available and heavily documented? (and don't complain about patent fee balbla, if you are using MPEG-4 ASP in DIVX you already payed for it, am I wrong?)
I can't force anyone to do anything but hacking old stuff cause it's easier and conveniant is not really respectfull of your present and futur customers.

My point, sorry if I sound dumb or anything...

I think we've discussed the issue's around .mp4 to death in some threads so I'll try not to go into to much detail.

Main points were:

1. We look at a problem from the direction of. What are the features we want and what is the most simple way to implement so that a variety of applications and hardware users will use can quickly utilize it widely and get the features we really want. If you start from the direcion of, "wow, the MP4 file format has a menuing spec and start from their spec you are already starting from perhaps the perspective of "overdesign". We start from "what features do we want" and what are the constraints. I think this thread even validates that if we picked something that was hard to support and implement then we would have created something less powerful.

2. .mp4 was to heavy for wide adoption into a wide variety of hardware at reasonable prices

3. If you add in features like menuing you get really heavy given how the spec defines it... And then if we want to add even more cool features we become limited in what we can implement because we've taken up memory space we could have otherwised used for something else.

4. AVI might be old but it is already supported everywhere and was very easy to extend with the underlying RIFF format. READ MY POINT ABOUT MP4 and it's age below.

5. .mp4 DOES in fact have additional licensing issues. You have to pay for the "Systems Layer" license as well as the Video License. Ouch.

>do anything but hacking old stuff cause it's easier and conveniant is >not really respectfull of your present and futur customers.

We built great simple technology that works and utilizes something proven and that is easy to extend other capabilities. If this wasn't the case we would have chosen a different approach. I wouldn't call that hacking old stuff.

No one is complaining about the .mp4 file format being old are they? Oh you think it's new? No it's based off of QuickTime. It's old! Quicktime was released on December 2nd 1991!!! This is what MP4 is based off of. Yet is anyone complaining? No but you can extend it to different things, powerful things. When was video for windows and thus AVI released, November of 1992. Hmmmm.... :eek: So my point is, focus on the things users want and then find the best way to build it in a way that works well and wide.

Beautiful design is not about what you can put in but what you can take out while building what is really needed. In fact our decisions were primarily based upon thinking about present and future users. Think about all the DivX DVD players in the market today and tommorrow. Think about the penetration of the .mp4 file format into authoring and viewing apps. ITS ZERO. If we would have had a different approach we would have forsaken compatiblity. Now I wouldn't want to be on the thread trying to defend that :)

So can we end this debate for at least a few days? :) C'mon it's the weekend!!!!

Darrius Thompson aka "Junto"
Co-founder DivX

[DigitAl56K]

Has anyone managed to make a home movie with menus and subtitles, and a directors commentary yet? You could still be the first in DivX history to do so... :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by thekid
Because the AVI format is widely adopted and used in numerous software applications and is adopted in hardware. .mp4 is from a standards body but is anything but standard. Hmmm!

I'm actually very happy with my .MP4 muxes!

Most of my encodes are generated using 720x480/576 pixels with 16:9 DAR and played back in hardware (using Sigma Xcard).

I've found mp4UI generates encodes that work reliably in every software player I've tried (except QuickTime). True... it would be nice if MPC supported Nero's "multiple" subtitles (it already supports chapter seeking). And yes it would be great if VLC supported chapter seeking (it already supports Nero's subs and multiple audio tracks).... So it's only a matter of time before, one or the other can support all of Recode2's current implementations!

Of course Recode2 encodes work fine with the Siemssen stand-alone player. And so it seems do mp4UI muxes and even DivX .avi's ;)

It's true to say mp4UI is not perfect... "yet". But it's very simple to use and looks very likely to improve soon (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=602381#post602381)!

Now I guess, what would be kind of amusing, is if the Siemssen can play .divx files :D


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

I have some questions about muxing subtitles with fuse.exe for sa playback,

-how to change the font size and text position ?
-it says qpel not supported ?
-how can we mux xvid files with it ;)

[thekid]

the fuse parameters are listed here:

http://labs.divx.com/archives/fuse.html

you can't change font size or text position in this release
Make sure your encodes are done with the proper certification profile selected. Qpel and GMC are notsupported. And if you are muxing Xvid streams use the 1.1 version that has the DivX profiles built in to ensure compatabiltiy with DivX Certified devices.

thekid...

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
I have some questions about muxing subtitles with fuse.exe for sa playback,

-how to change the font size and text position ?
-it says qpel not supported ?
-how can we mux xvid files with it ;)

I'll let someone else more capable than me answer the font size, text position question. I'll answer the how to mux xvid files question. That ones easy. Just like you would a video file encode with DivX :) Actually I just wanted to say we don't do anything to prevent you from not doing so. The way I look at the DivX Media Format (DMF) is more like a DVD. Meaning it is more than just audio and video. In DVD's you can use any branded MP2 codec as long as it is DVD profile compliant right? We look at using other MP4 codecs like Xvid the same way. You can use it within the DMF as you can use any MP2 DVD Profile compliant encoder within the DVD format. Hope that makes sense. It's Friday and I don't think clearly on Fridays.

All we ask is to please use DivX Certified features to ensure compatiblity with DivX Players in software and more specifically hardware that users will want to play these files back in. Otherwise we might face even more interoperability confusion. So that probably answers your Qpel question as well. (Essentially use Xvid as a DivX Certified type of file)The xvid team already has the divx profiles sitting in their source code tree and I see it's in their 1.1 beta build but still not completed or updated to the latest profile changes. Having this though should make this easier.

[Zhnujm]

Well, then it seems the problem was that the xvid files use qpel and not that they are just xvid files...

I hope this is just a limitation of the beta version or are there any reasons not to support qpel and gmc ?

[Darrius "Junto" Thompson]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
Well, then it seems the problem was that the xvid files use qpel and not that they are just xvid files...

I hope this is just a limitation of the beta version or are there any reasons not to support qpel and gmc ?

The reasons are as discussed in many of the past threads here on doom's forums as well as the DivX forum. I"m long winded so I'll just say... "search" for the old topics. It's really the same old story.... If you look at "quality improvement" multiplied by "requried complexity" (required horsepower) tradeoff you might find that the benefit of such features have limited value when given a choice of other features to focus on especially when CE (consumer electronic) devices are limited in power. For example would you rather have interactive menu's, subs, metadata, mutliple audio tracks, our new connected technologies allowing you to show any cool GUI from your PC on your connected CE device and interact with it (shown at CES :)), access your network content... or trade all that for GMC? A few percent gain in compression that is hardly noticable to most except those of us who might stare at individual frames isn't as compelling as other potential tools. We have to tradeoff features knowing what our constraints are and agreeing upon what features have the highest *OVERALL* value to users.

Darrius

[Jeffster]

Originally posted by Darrius "Junto" Thompson
I'll let someone else more capable than me answer the font size, text position question. I'll answer the how to mux xvid files question. That ones easy. Just like you would a video file encode with DivX :) Actually I just wanted to say we don't do anything to prevent you from not doing so.

Actually that's not strictly correct, it appears one has to change the FourCC first before it will accept an XviD file


Processing beginning chunks.
Processing all chunks.
Track is not DX50 VBV Test Skipped
0 Incorrect 8cc: [xvidXVID]

Result: FAIL

aborting

[LordRPI]

‘Sup guys?

Earlier this morning, a few of us at DivX headquarters decided it would be a cool idea to hold a contest for DivX Media Format video creation. We found some Philips DVP-642 DVD players and we will be awarding them to the first 3 who create functional DivX Media Format files meeting the following criteria:



About 30 seconds long
Home Movie
* Nothing Obscene
* You must own the rights to the video
* You must allow us to showcase your .divx on DivX Labs
Subtitles
Audio tracks, which can be
* Main Audio
* Your Director’s commentary
* Preferably in International English, but Gibberish and/or Scots Gaelic is OK
Menu - at least two elements
Under 50 MB in size



Submit by your .divx by emailing it to me, LordRPI at: lordrpi at gmail dot com

Good luck!

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by Darrius "Junto" Thompson
The reasons are as discussed in many of the past threads here on doom's forums as well as the DivX forum. I"m long winded so I'll just say... "search" for the old topics. It's really the same old story..

Well, all my hardware devices can play qpel+gmc. Most of my files use qpel and gmc.
And now the only reason why i cannot mux subtitles in them is a limitation in the muxing programm fuse.exe ?
Is this a real problem in the file format or just a "if qpel=true then goto end" ? :)
A switch to allow muxing files with qpel would be veeeery nice.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
And now the only reason why i cannot mux subtitles in them is a limitation in the muxing programm fuse.exe ? I think finding suitable muxing tools is a major problem for use with most containers!

As you guys know, I like my .MP4 files. And I think it's true to say that with the right muxing tools and a little knowledge, it's possible to generate .MP4 encodes that will provide the same level of functionality that DivX's Fusion/Media Format does!

However, unlike DivX's Fusion/Media Format, even if we .MP4 users were able to create such encodes, we don't have a free "closed" player, to view them with.

Hell, as far as I'm aware, we .MP4 users can't even agree on which subtitle format to adopt or how menus can be created and linked to chapters.... And so, as a consequence, nobody appears to be sticking their necks out (or working together) to provide suitable muxing tools or even "closed" software players!

I have to give credit where it's due and congratulate DivX for this... there latest innovation. It's obvious they've all worked hard to make this work... and to keep as many software player and hardware player users as happy as possible!

Jeez... it sounds like future versions of DrDivX (or what ever it will be called) are going to be a bit of an animal :eek:


Cheers

[schnuffix]

Hi,

I encoded some movies with fusion b2 and find it very good!

Now I'm wondering how to do menus and chapters. Is there any info about that out there?

[bond]

its not possible to mux dxn subs with a mpeg-4 video stream that uses qpel and gmc??
thats bad, not everyone aims at compatibility with hardware players, not everyone has a crappy hardware player not handling qpel :/

Originally posted by Darrius "Junto" Thompson
I'll let someone else more capable than me answer the font size, text position question. I'll answer the how to mux xvid files question. That ones easy. Just like you would a video file encode with DivX :) Actually I just wanted to say we don't do anything to prevent you from not doing so.well i think even if you would want to, its not really possible to prevent muxing any mpeg-4 video stream into .avi, as all streams are mpeg-4 compliant of course (and as already mentioned, fourccs can be changed)

still its funny, people will mux "xvid" in your extended .avi and theoretically should use the ".divx" extension :B
i wonder how long it will take till the first ones rename .divx to .avi

[Zhnujm]

I still cant believe it, THE solution for AVI playback with subtitles on standalones, able to fix all known problems with seperate files, size, position, colors, fonts, special chars, already working on all certified devices and its not supporting qpel and gmc streams....

Hopefully some other program can do that in the future.

[skal]

Hi,

@DivX guys: are there any patents attached to the ... hmm... inventions you propose as new Media Format. Are the licenses more interesting than MPEG4-system container, say?

-Skal

[RedDwarf69]

Since new players will support AAC and AVI-Mux GUI supports AAC on AVI, can I suppose I will be able to mux AAC on this?

[Zhnujm]

If somebody is interested in a version that allows qpel and does not care about the fourcc then send me a pm.

[Shinigami-Sama]

very nice demo
it had some problems mirroring on my tv when it started but it worked on the second time through
shin likes
maybe I'll start makin encodes with this :)
and hte hd was very nice
and quite small
very nice work guys thumbs up :)

[ChronoCross]

well the new container is a good idea however I think that there are already way better containers out there (mp4, mkv) so using .divx is well pointless to me. anyway I tested out the latest release fromt he fusion series and I gotta say that on my machine uning insane mode is impossible. I'm kinda a quality person but I really can't stand the new insane modes 1.2fps rendering. I can easily get better quality on xvid at 9-12fps witht he same avs script. The only downside to xvid is that it's not guaranteed to play in hardware players (I don't have a DVD player anyway *poor college Student*) but other than that it's great for my backup/enhancement needs.

positive things I did notice however are the introduction of a higher quality qpel as well as multi consecutive B-vops which is a great move forward in terms of divx gaining even more compressability/quality. Additionally the gui is much better than before in my opinion and now loads immediately rather than a 30 second delay with 5.2.1 pro. Much easier navigation. I haven't tried out the noise removal/deinterlacing functions (kinda weary to try them until the final release) The new divx player and the divx decoder does have a bunch of speed improvements that I really notice on my machine. Post processing seems to be one of the best enhanced features.

Thanks again divx I'll keep testing the codec on different anime sources I have and see how they turn out in comparission to xvid.

[Shinigami-Sama]

just a question
I havn;t gone very far back in this thread yet
>.>
but it never realys comes up much htat I've seen but
seeing as how /divx is basicly an avi does it still reject vorbis?
because I find vorbis is the best audio imho and if it still doesn;t well that means I won't realy uise it that much
oh well sooner or later it will be :)
-edit-
right I just read it al the way through I did;nt se anymention of it yet just people whiniang about extening an avi and such..

[sterlina]

Originally posted by ChronoCross
[B]well the new container is a good idea however I think that there are already way better containers out there (mp4, mkv)I do agree, and I (personally) find unuseful to have another container or an ("avi-extended-not.specs.compliant") that will fight for domination... anyway, that's the world :rolleyes: and we have to deal with it

Originally posted by Skal
@DivX guys: are there any patents attached to the ... hmm... inventions you propose as new Media Format. Are the licenses more interesting than MPEG4-system container, say?that's interesting... are any patents on it?

[bond]

Originally posted by skal
@DivX guys: are there any patents attached to the ... hmm... inventions you propose as new Media Format. Are the licenses more interesting than MPEG4-system container, say?good point!
what does dxn charge for their "new container" (which again actually is simply an extended .avi and not a new container designed from scratch :p )

[IgorC]

it will be good idea to care more about videocodec and not about container and other misc. stuff since avi-container works fine.

[temporance]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
...already working on all certified devices and its not supporting qpel and gmc streams...Perhaps the reason why it will work on all certified device is that it does not support qpel and gmc!

[bond]

Originally posted by temporance
Perhaps the reason why it will work on all certified device is that it does not support qpel and gmc! so you think that it might be possible that subtitles will not work on existing hardware players that already support qpel? come on ;)

[temporance]

Originally posted by bond
so you think that it might be possible that subtitles will not work on existing hardware players that already support qpel? come on ;) [Of course some certified device will qpel and gmc. But not all. And I quoted...
...already working on all certified devices and its not supporting qpel and gmc streams...If a stream uses QPel or GMC then it won't work on all certified devices. This is likely why QPel and GMC are forbidden.

[Zhnujm]

Well, what i meant was, the subtitle solution works on all (most) certified players.
I dont think theres a reason to limit that to streams without qpel.
Anyway, this problem is already solved ;)

Next problem, changing size and position of the subtitles.

[bond]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
Well, what i meant was, the [B]subtitle solution works on all (most) certified players.
I dont think theres a reason to limit that to streams without qpel.yep, thats what i meant too (seems there was a misunderstanding)

Anyway, this problem is already solved ;)hrhr :D

[magnop]

Just to say that i tryed "The Making Of Last Man Standing" on my standalone player, a Pioneer 575 and it identified 3 audio, 5 subtitle streams and played them ok. No menu available.
Picture quality is very good but the subtitles are too big.

[DigitAl56K]

Hi all,

We will soon be releasing a new version of Fuse that will not prevent you from using QPel and GMC, but be aware that if you use these features your file is not guaranteed to play back in all DivX Certified devices. Keep this in mind when encoding your video.

With regards to the various questions around the DivX Media Format, patents, and pricing: Yes, we have patents around the file format. Are we going to charge you for using it? No. The SDK is free for personal, non-commercial use. That means you can use the tools and libraries in the SDK to create as many DivX Media Format files as you like. If you want to create a commercial application simply contact us for more information on licensing. The whole reason we published the SDK in the first place, rather than simply licensing it, was to make sure that you guys had access to all the documentation and tools that you needed to work with the format. We're also working to ensure that other technologies, such as XVID, are interoperable with the DivX Media Format and enabled for compatibility with all DivX Certified devices.

We're anticipating good things from you guys around the DivX Media Format. Stop reading the forums and get to work... ;)

[baer999]

OK it is very well to see that DivX is still working hard on improvements ! But means this statement in the post that no commercial media player is allowed to playback DivX 6 without license for this ? The SDK is great but i'm not good enough @coding and the Compression Area (I learn only VB 6 @school...) but I think here are some Well coders which maybe will produce a few fantastic freeware Programms. My most wanted Feature is the promissed Menu (I hope I can use the DVD Original Menu, too). Will there be an easy GUI for this part of the new Version ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Is there a list somewhere of DivX compatible stand-alone players that can play DivX Media Format files?

I realise some players will currently support more features than others... but some kind of cross-referenced list might prove useful.


Cheers

[thekid]

all Certified players should be able to handle the multiple audio and multiple subtitles today. The rest of the features, chapters, menus, metadata etc will be ignored on current players and will be handled with a firmware upgrade. Until then these devices will play the main title within a DivX Media Format file skipping the extra features.

the list of certified devices can be found here:

http://www.divx.com/hardware/certified/products.php

i belive that list is mostly up to date. i'll double check.

I'll also try to get you some names and dates of when new players will hit shelves that have the full features set enabled

thekid...

[LordRPI]

Oops...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by thekid
all Certified players should be able to handle the multiple audio and multiple subtitles today. The rest of the features, chapters, menus, metadata etc will be ignored on current players and will be handled with a firmware upgrade. Until then these devices will play the main title within a DivX Media Format file skipping the extra features.

the list of certified devices can be found here:

http://www.divx.com/hardware/certified/products.php

i belive that list is mostly up to date. i'll double check.

I'll also try to get you some names and dates of when new players will hit shelves that have the full features set enabled That's great news... And that's one hell of a list already!

One interesting aspect of your sample encodes is their high-def element... I'm sure High-Def IO-DATA LinkPlayer AVLP2/DVDLA player owner/users must be getting rather excited.

Thanks again

[Shinigami-Sama]

which reminds me
I'll check out the high-def part right now
hmm
looks good on my tv
had to play wit hhte setting on it though
but yeah
other than a crash
pretty sweet high-def:cool:

[jggimi]

Originally posted by jggimi
Well, my standalone is a JVC XV-NP10S, and therefore I have lowered expectations. (IMO, this product did not get sufficient QA before being released into production, and its problems are not being properly addressed.)

I will try your samples out this weekend ... we'll see. Test results with LastManStanding demo: .divx file extension recognized. No difference in behavior between .avi and .divx files.

Menu ignored.

SD stream (640x352) recognized. HD stream (1280x720) ignored.

3 audio streams recognized, and selectable.

5 subtitle streams recognized, and selectable.Attempts to open Slideshow.avi and Slideshow.divx fail, with error message: Resolution Not Supported.

[thekid]

the slideshow file is a High Def file. It will not playback on a home theater certified DVD player.

thekid...

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've asked some people over on the AVS forum, with High-Def IO-DATA LinkPlayer AVLP2/DVDLA players, to give the "Last Man Standing" clip ago ;)


Cheers

[LordRPI]

Wait, I have one of those back in my apartment connected to a Sanyo 27" fishbowl CRT TV...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by LordRPI
Wait, I have one of those back in my apartment connected to a Sanyo 27" fishbowl CRT TV... Well what are you waiting for? Get over there right now and do the biz!


Cheers

[LordRPI]

Let's see if I can procure one at work. I don't have a burner on this computer, but I'm sure to find somebody.

Hopefully I'll be back in w/in 30 mins

Edit: n/l, even with VLC. This is a DivX Media Format tool only.

[Elias]

Seriously, DXN guys: why not just use the mp4 container along with AAC and the rest of the MPEG-4 ISO Compliant standard? Nobody wants to use the "DivX Media Format" over the MPEG-4 ISO standard.

[stephanV]

i think that question has been answered now... and please dont speak for all of us.

[Elias]

Originally posted by Elias
Nobody wants to use the "DivX Media Format" over the MPEG-4 ISO standard.

Originally posted by stephanV and please dont speak for all of us. Off-topic: I just don't care about being politically correct. When I write "Nobody wants to use the "DivX Media Format" over the MPEG-4 ISO standard," you pretty much understand that it's not everyone else's opinion.

[Wilbert]

Off-topic: I just don't care about being politically correct. When I write "Nobody wants to use the "DivX Media Format" over the MPEG-4 ISO standard," you pretty much understand that it's not everyone else's opinion.
Off-topic: Even your suggestion that the majority of the people around here think like that is totally unfounded. I'm also quite sure that some people are getting annoyed about your MP4-spam (and not only on this board). Could you stop with that?

[Elias]

Originally posted by Wilbert
Off-topic: Even your suggestion that the majority of the people around here think like that is totally unfounded. I'm also quite sure that some people are getting annoyed about your MP4-spam (and not only on this board). Could you stop with that? Sure, I just like the format and want to learn more about it. That's all. Sorry if it gets too much.

[bond]

guys plz cool down!

it makes perfectly sense that dxn uses and extends the .avi container for their uses
using another container (be it matroska, mp4 or whatever) would have broke compatbility totally to most existing players (software and hardware), of course dxn wants to avoid that

after all most users want that their stuff works and dont care about the technology used inside

so plz no more "better use this or that", dxn will not change their technology, lets all enjoy (and reverse engineer :D ) their avi extensions :)

[jggimi]

You must have missed this, Elias (highlight mine):Originally posted by thekid
...If we had switched to MP4 all of the 20+ million DivX Certified devices out on the market now would become useless for the new format. Building off of AVI and keeping our new format backwards compatible was the best option when thinking about our users. We want all users who have DVD players today to be able to take advantage of the new features.[EDIT: bond jumped in, and he said it better than I would have.]

[Elias]

Originally posted by thekid
...If we had switched to MP4 all of the 20+ million DivX Certified devices out on the market now would become useless for the new format. Building off of AVI and keeping our new format backwards compatible was the best option when thinking about our users. We want all users who have DVD players today to be able to take advantage of the new features.] This doesn't have to be a necessity. I know that avi has higher compatibility, but seriously, why not support mp4 as well for the users who want to use it too? I don't see why mp4 can't co-exist with avi.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
so plz no more "better use this or that", dxn will not change their technology, lets all enjoy (and reverse engineer :D ) their avi extensions :) I wonder whether Alex Noé would be willing to upgrade AVI-mux (http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/index-eng.html) so it can see all the streams within the .divx file?

Originally posted by Elias
This doesn't have to be a necessity. I know that avi has higher compatibility, but seriously, why not support mp4 as well for the users who want to use it too? I don't see why mp4 can't co-exist with avi. DivX have said (why) they don't want to do this many times also...

You're "flogging a dead horse" with this one Elias!


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

I admit i understand why DXN does not support mp4.
In fact i think it would be completely stupid if they now start supporting mp4, even as additional option.
If the had started with it from the beginning, then yes, but thats another story.

Until now even i cannot see mp4 as complete replacement as you can still not mux ac3 into it (i hope im up to date ;) )

The DivXMedia format will probably fit the need of most people, even if menues are not supportet by current hardware devices.

I wonder if theres any agreement about firmware updates in the certification or is its completely in the hand of the player manufacturer ? As that would most likely mean no update from my experience...

[Sharktooth]

AC3 can be muxed in mp4. But that will produce a non spec compliant file.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Why are people so mad-keep to keep the AC3 stream?

A good re-encoded 6Ch AC3 to 6Ch AAC stream can sound every bit as good, as an good, re-encoded Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 stream can look!


Cheers

[stephanV]

can we now leave the mp4 discussion for what it is... there are plenty of other threads for that.

[nicco]

I wonder whether Alex Noé would be willing to upgrade AVI-mux so it can see all the streams within the .divx file?

and of course...VirtualDub!:)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well we've heard nothing on this forum from Alex since... 7th December 2004 15:32!

I wonder if he's still a welcome member here?


Cheers

[LordRPI]

I think he was banned :-/

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by LordRPI
I think he was banned :-/ Maybe you guys at DivX can offer him a job?

He did wonders for the .AVI container.... Maybe he could do the same for your .divx container?

Just a thought ;)

[Sharktooth]

banned! why?
anyways, he was damn good with avi.

[LordRPI]

From what I remember, it was a long story pointing out certain features and downfalls of certain technologies (just like some people are remarking about different technologies here).. which is actually against forum rules. Now before we drift off topic...

(apologizes to the doom9 team in advance)

[bond]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
AC3 can be muxed in mp4. But that will produce a non spec compliant file. its spec compliant as ac3-in-avi and ac3-in-mpg (aka .vob) is avi/mpg spec compliant :D

[Sharktooth]

EDIT: *REMOVED* it could lead to a wide open off topic discussion.

[Shinigami-Sama]

well it all looks and plays good
I still haven;t seen any answers to the vorbis incompatablity
seeign as how .svix is and extened .avi i figure you _could_ put vorbis in this now
as long as it;s in the riff partion correct?

[thekid]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
EDIT: *REMOVED* it could lead to a wide open off topic discussion.

it already has ;-)

thekid...

[fewtch]

Originally posted by thekid
yes and no

yes, we believe that an online rental or purchase of a video should provide an experience that is as good if not better than that of a traditional rental or purchase. so we created these features with that in mind.

and no it shouldn't be hard for you to create your own "free" divx files. We are giving you the SDK! How is that making it harder to create DivX files? We have given you everything you need TO make .DivX files. We want to make it easy for everyone to create .divx files with all of the features with any software they like. Later this year you will start to see all of our software partners including the technology that you see here to make it easy to create your own files

thekid...
You're giving us the beta SDK, yes. Are you gonna give us the final version SDK?

From the Pro Fusion license agreement:

"LIMITED DURATION: The License to this product is of limited duration and shall expire on March 30, 2005. After such date, this product will not be usable and its features will be unavailable to you."

After reading the above I hit "Cancel," then I highlighted "DivXFusionSDK.zip" and the Codec EXE installer and hit my Delete key. I think I'm happy with XviD, Vobsub, SubRip, Morgan Stream Switcher, Media Player Classic. None of these apps give me the above sort of B.S. (or any other hassles whatsoever), they're completely free of charge and they do the same things as your stuff (except menus -- which believe me I can live without, or could make an SVCD or author a DVD).

Sorry if I sound negative, but here's my humble opinion: You guys are very late to the party with this stuff -- the table was laid out long ago and people have already eaten. Your trump card is in standalone devices; for your sake, I hope they catch on big...

P.S. having been into computers since 1984, the technique of giving software away free to encourage widespread adoption that later become closed, proprietary & expensive is very familiar (sorry again for my cynicism... I'm getting old). If you eventually offer all the Pro Fusion stuff without expiration dates (and please, no more 'phoning home' needing special rules to block with a firewall) I'll probably see what it has to offer.

[dragongodz]

pointing out certain features and downfalls of certain technologies (just like some people are remarking about different technologies here).. which is actually against forum rules.
hmm and exactly which rule would that be ?
people talk about the up and down sides of different codecs/encoders/formats/etc all over this forum. or was that meant to be a pop at bonds criticism of divx extending avi and calling it something new ? :sly:

[thekid]

to fewtch

easy tiger... you'll get the full SDK

first comes the beta... then the full... and given the expiration date listed you might guess as to when thats going to be :D

wow, i hope i don't get that cyncical when i get old

thekid...

[fewtch]

Sorry man, it's been a long day... that's probably part of it...

[thekid]

no worries...

i can very much relate to that right now...

Per the time duration on the SDK, we probably should have messaged that better... i'll see what i can do to fix that.

in the end we are just trying to provide tools to reach our vision (http://cv.divx.com/2004/11/what-is-divx/)

If you don't want to use them, please keep using all the tools you are using now. If they work for you and you want to use them... thats great too.

ok, i'm getting too tired and philosphical now... off to bed

thekid...

[yaz]

Originally posted by dragongodz
hmm and exactly which rule would that be ?
people talk about the up and down sides of different codecs/encoders/formats/etc all over this forum ... iirc, it was not the what but the how ... but, afaik, that ban is over now ... however, alex is damn good not only w/avi but w/provoking bans too :-)))
the bests
y

[RedDwarf69]

Originally posted by Zhnujm I wonder if theres any agreement about firmware updates in the certification or is its completely in the hand of the player manufacturer ? As that would most likely mean no update from my experience... [/B]

So true :rolleyes:

I even saw manufacturers with firmware changelogs than look like "we are not doing nothing, but we modified the internal version number to change the hash and here you have a clearly fake changelog so clients think we support the product and will buy it".

Then, there is that agreement in the certification?

[skal]

Ok; so there are patents and licenses all over your file format (which, btw, would have been elegant to tell us first).
And you're asking people working for free to help you spread it so you can later open the cash register. The LZW/GIF trick, again.

Well, sorry, but without me. At least, with mpeg4, the cards are on the table (of MPEG-LA).


-Skal

PS: And.. do you remember Avery Lee's troubles with VDub's ASF support?

[dragongodz]

iirc, it was not the what but the how
yaz - possibly that was the reason for the ban. that isnt what is said in what i quoted though, far from it.

in the end we are just trying to provide tools to reach our vision
thekid - thank you for posting that link. thats the best laugh i have had in some time. :D

And you're asking people working for free to help you spread it so you can later open the cash register.
they can actually keep the SDK free forever(not saying they will) because the "cash register" is already open via the actual codec(as in pro version) and licensing to hardware makers etc.

[bond]

Originally posted by skal
PS: And.. do you remember Avery Lee's troubles with VDub's ASF support?i remember the divx4/opendivx story ^^

[temporance]

Originally posted by skal
Ok; so there are patents and licenses all over your file format (which, btw, would have been elegant to tell us first).Isn't that what DigitAl did, about 20 or 30 posts ago? He also said that it's free for personal use... in law it's impossible to revoke that kind of license (although I haven't seen where it says this in the small print). This could be rather like what On2 did for Theora.

PS: And.. do you remember Avery Lee's troubles with VDub's ASF support?I think M$ and DXN have very different agendas here. M$ gains adoption by bundling stuff with its OS and it doesn't like others providing alternatives. DXN gains adoption by sheer popularity. The more tools support "its" format, the better, e.g. the existence and popularity of xvid is a blessing for DXN who want to shift DivX branded standalones.

EDIT:
i remember the divx4/opendivx story ^^Look at the eventual end result: xvid. Others continued when the DXN engineers were moved off the open source project.

[DigitAl56K]

Yep, the file format is free for personal use.

Once again in bold: it's free for personal use (clearly statements in bold are twice as binding).

And finally, once more for those who feel comforted by excessive redundant punctuation and "133t sp34k"(there are always a few): 1tz FR33 f0r p3rs0n4l Us3!!??!?!?! l0LOL)L!!!!

We be pimpin da foh-mat fo' free baby! Oh yeah, datz where it at, yo.

Diggie in da house!

w0rd.

[skal]

personal use? Ok, i'll patch ffmpeg and use it at home, but won't redistribute the code, since it would then stop being personal ;)

Anyway:

I've downloaded the (165Meg!!) SDK, and there's not a single doc in it, unless i'm wrong. And in particular, no specs for the format.
And reading the EULA, one find (amongst other things):

"NO TRANSCODING: You are prohibited from using the Licensed Works with software or hardware whose purpose is to "transcode" or convert DivX video or DivX Media Format content into an alternate format. "

Mind you, lot of softwares around Doom9 can do such a thing.
All the more that H264 seems now the new basin of attraction.

Skal

(and btw: what is a "DivX video"? I though DivX was MPEG4.)

[nicco]

ep, the file format is free for personal use.

Once again in bold: it's free for personal use (clearly statements in bold are twice as binding).

And finally, once more for those who feel comforted by excessive redundant punctuation and "133t sp34k"(there are always a few): 1tz FR33 f0r p3rs0n4l Us3!!??!?!?! l0LOL)L!!!!

We be pimpin da foh-mat fo' free baby! Oh yeah, datz where it at, yo.

Diggie in da house!

w0rd.

libero per uso personale!!!

for people who speak only italian!:D
how do you say in german?

personal use? Ok, i'll patch ffmpeg and use it at home, but won't redistribute the code, since it would then stop being personal
I have to understand
If I create a .divx file from my DV camera and I watch it at home, it's OK.
What about if I disribute this .divx files to my friends, or to other people? And if I want to sell it?

[dragongodz]

If I create a .divx file from my DV camera and I watch it at home, it's OK.
What about if I disribute this .divx files to my friends
if you for example capture a relatives wedding and make cds for freinds and family for free you are p[robably fine.

And if I want to sell it?
then get your cheque book out to pay.

"NO TRANSCODING: You are prohibited from using the Licensed Works with software or hardware whose purpose is to "transcode" or convert DivX video or DivX Media Format content into an alternate format. "
thats got to be a joke. the divx guys who visit here should know better than to try and force that crap down peoples throats.

[thekid]

SDK update

http://labs.divx.com/archives/000052.html

mostly documentation updates and sample code

we also separated out the fluffy builder part to make the main SDK much more managable in size

have a good weekend everybody!

make sure you eat lots of junk food and watch a bunch of guys chase a ball around the field and what not.

thekid...

[fewtch]

Originally posted by dragongodz
thats got to be a joke. the divx guys who visit here should know better than to try and force that crap down peoples throats.
Well, these guys have to cover their butts with both commercial interests (hardware manufacturers and MPAA companies they hope to attract for DivX VOD) and the general "open" Net community.

Frankly I don't think it's possible, but I suppose they deserve kudos for trying. Eventually it will have to be one or the other, not both, unless they can pull off a miracle. :p

At minimum we get DivX certified devices that can also play Xvid, and maybe a few of the smarter manufacturers will include new container formats in their firmwares (other than .divx).

[temporance]

Originally posted by thekid
make sure you eat lots of junk food and watch a bunch of guys chase a ball around the field and what not.Uh?

[thekid]

sorry

for those not living in the US, or for those who don't watch sports

its superbowl weekend

American football (not soccer)

i never watch football, but the commercials are good :D

thekid...

[Lord_KiRon]

OK guys (especially DivX guys :) ) , may I ask a few stupid simple questions :) :

1. Previously (about a year ago) DXN promised to "take care" in new format of out of sync problem with VBR MP# audio stream.
Is it done ?
Taken that .divx is subversion of AVIs that requre standard size audio frames - how it done ?

2. Is there any "markings" as on DVDs for lang. ID both for audio and subtitles ?
If yes can you explain the "marking" system in relation to standalones ?
Does .divx files can include fonts binaries in some speciffic format or you just "hope" that standalones will interprite correctly (this may be problematic because most of standalones are not unicode or something and in best case have 2-3 lang. ) .

3. What about aspect ratio data is it ther /used or just as with regular AVI - you have a field in header defined in standard but it so not standard that no one uses it ?

4.What about such DVD feature as "multiple viewing angles" ? Is it supported / implemented ? If yes then how ? - just as different video stream + menu entry ?

5. What about interlaced encodings ? Are they supported (so for example software player playing such file on PC would know it need to deiterlace on run-time) ?

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon

Does .divx files can include fonts binaries in some speciffic format or you just "hope" that standalones will interprite correctly (this may be problematic because most of standalones are not unicode or something and in best case have 2-3 lang. ) .


The subtitles are just bitmaps, so different fonts/languages are no problem as long as the program that create these bitmaps is able to handle that.

[Lord_KiRon]

So you are saing that DXN put bitmaps inside the .divx files , not text data ?

Well .. on one hand it will surely simplify the process (just like on DVD) but on the other it defits the purpose of text subtitles - small size and editability .
One can say that in era of HD recordings having dozen of megas of subtitles is not that much but still this is a bit disapointing ...
Any chance DXN implement BOTH aproaches (text and bitmaps) ?

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
So you are saing that DXN put bitmaps inside the .divx files , not text data ?


Yes, seems so. Even if you mux in a .srt file it will be converted to bitmaps. You will loose editability thats true but i dont think the filesize will be a problem.
If you take the original subs from for example Harry Potter 3 and convert them to xsub its still under 3MB filesize.

[DigitAl56K]

A benefit of using a bitmap format is style retention, even on CE, which otherwise has the potential to use some not-so-pretty OEM fonts for rendering. The subtitles occupy very little space when written to the container.

[bond]

DigitAl56K, can you say if dxn's subtitle format is the same as vobsubs in dvds or is it something different?
eg would it be possible to place vobsubs from dvds into .divx without doing conversions in the subs stream?

[DigitAl56K]

I actually can't answer that one - I haven't been involved with our sub format at a low level. Your best bet is to PM thefluffy. HTH :)

[thefluffy]

Originally posted by bond
DigitAl56K, can you say if dxn's subtitle format is the same as vobsubs in dvds or is it something different?
eg would it be possible to place vobsubs from dvds into .divx without doing conversions in the subs stream?

DigitAl can't answer that (to tell you the truth he's not all there...), but I will attempt to fill the void.

Simple answer is no. The DivX subtitle format is a compressed 4 bit bitmap. Our SDK provides APIs to convert bitmaps into this compressed format, and mux them with video and audio.

[DigitAl56K]

Just because I'm not all there doesn't mean I'm not not all not there, or something! O.O

[Lord_KiRon]

OK , guys , thanks , but what about my other questions ?

[bond]

Originally posted by thefluffy
Simple answer is nothx :)

[thefluffy]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
So you are saing that DXN put bitmaps inside the .divx files , not text data ?

Well .. on one hand it will surely simplify the process (just like on DVD) but on the other it defits the purpose of text subtitles - small size and editability .
One can say that in era of HD recordings having dozen of megas of subtitles is not that much but still this is a bit disapointing ...
Any chance DXN implement BOTH aproaches (text and bitmaps) ?

In development we supported both bitmaps and text, however we found no hardware support of text subtitles in DVD players.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by thefluffy
In development we supported both bitmaps and text, however we found no hardware support of text subtitles in DVD players.
Are you kidding? I think the only (external) subtitle format the Philips DVP-642 supports is .srt, pure ASCII text.

[DigitAl56K]

No support = Nothing that you could call widespread "support" for a particular format beyond a few specific cases.

[Lord_KiRon]

You gota be kidding !

1.Every MTK based player releases last year supports .srt subtitles format . Last versions support .sub.

2. ESS based players support .sub and .srt .

3. Some of Sigma based players (Like KiSS) support them as well !

4. Zoran based players suppor .srt and .sub .

I do not know even one single player with recently updated firmware that doers not support at least .srt !


Btw: still waiting for answer on other questions :)

[jggimi]

My player doesn't support any external subs. JVC XV-NP10S. I've tested it with seven different external .sub formats, none work. (I still haven't figured out what chipset it uses, my guess is ESS, but that's just a guess.)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jggimi
I still haven't figured out what chipset it uses, my guess is ESS, but that's just a guess. Is the chip-set not viewable when you lift the player lid?


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

A text based subtitle solution would IMHO produce more problems than it solves. Look at all the mostly horrible solutions in current players.

If you want to make it really good it would be not very easy to implement in hardware.

[jggimi]

Lid? :p

That would require touching its pretty skin:

http://www.jvc.com/Resources/00/00/50/00.JPG

Its the only thing pretty about the unit, unfortunately.

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by jggimi
My player doesn't support any external subs.

Lord_KiRon: There you go :)

The problem is greater than you would imagine, though. If only one device type does not support a subtitle format, yet it has a vast number of units on the market, then that is a big problem for compatibility. Also consider user experience: Of the players that do actually support subs, do they all support multiple subtitle tracks? Do they all provide a convenient method to switch subtitles? Are the subtitles always rendered in a suitable font, even for localized units?

DivX specified a subtitle format during the first revisions of DivX Certification. We know that all of our certified devices support our format, we know that multiple subtitles can be present, we know they will render correctly. Of course, there is nothing wrong with the .srt and .sub formats, but we are striving for a good implementation and compatibility and a good viewer experience.

Additionally, placing subtitles inside the content container itself makes files with multiple subtitles more convenient to distribute and manage on a local machine, burn to CD, and to control via a video menu.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jggimi
Lid? :p

That would require touching its pretty skin:

Its the only thing pretty about the unit, unfortunately. Oh.. go on!


Cheers

[Lord_KiRon]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
Additionally, placing subtitles inside the content container itself makes files with multiple subtitles more convenient to distribute and manage on a local machine, burn to CD, and to control via a video menu. [/B]

I am not talking about EXTERNAL text based formats , you "twisted" :) the descussio in that direction .
All I care is a text based format , like in OGM , internal even better.
Also you do not have to adobt all the text formats , just pick one and use it :) (like OGM uses SRT inside).


Btw: , may I turn once again your attention to my OTHER questions :

1. Previously (about a year ago) DXN promised to "take care" in new format of out of sync problem with VBR MP3 audio stream.
Is it done ?
Taken that .divx is subversion of AVIs that requre standard size audio frames - how it done ?


3. What about aspect ratio data is it there /used or just as with regular AVI - you have a field in header defined in standard but it so not standard that no one uses it ?

4.What about such DVD feature as "multiple viewing angles" ? Is it supported / implemented ? If yes then how ? - just as different video stream + menu entry ?

5. What about interlaced encodings ? Are they supported (so for example software player playing such file on PC would know it need to deiterlace on run-time) ?

[Shinigami-Sama]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon

Btw: , may I turn once again your attention to my OTHER questions :
join hte club I'm still waiting on answeres to see if vorbis is compatable yet..

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
I am not talking about EXTERNAL text based formats , you "twisted" :) the descussio in that direction .
All I care is a text based format , like in OGM , internal even better.


Ahh so now you need all the players to support SRT/SUB *and* OGM? ;)


Btw: , may I turn once again your attention to my OTHER questions :

No. Certainly not. How proposterous! For shame! That's just.. just... I can't believe you asked me that? How could you?!

OK ok I'll scroll back later, right now I gotta run to the mall, it's like... totally fabulous dahhlings!

[fewtch]

Are you guys still developing/testing only for Windows XP, or have you (finally) included us millions of Win2k users in the fun? It couldn't be too hard to have a few dual-boot machines at your tester's convenience...

[DigitAl56K]

We're testing on lots of operating systems, including 2K, we just tested XP first :)

[baer999]

It's March ! Where is the new version ? ^^ No I know that it need a little bit time for development. I go on Sunday with my school class to field excursion, and i hope that there will be something new when I come back on the next next Friday :) that would be great !

[LordRPI]

As Digit stated somewhere else, March is the period of time between 3/1 and 3/31

I thought it was 2/29 today though...

[therealjoeblow]

Originally posted by bond
the facts (and opinions ;) ):

...(Snip)...

dxn you could have done this far more userfriendly...

Um... that would be called 'MATROSKA'...

[Sharktooth]

:eek:

[Bathrone]

Tick Tock

[bond]

Originally posted by Bathrone
Tick Tock striked for rule 11

[Cyberace]

Any updates on if DivX, Inc. will (or will not) add DXVA support in the DivX-decoder?, (hope I'm not off-topic with this request, if so I apploguise):

Microsoft DirectX Video Acceleration (DirectX VA) support

This feature/function request is both for hardware acceleration (motion compensation) and post-processing via Microsofts DirectX Video Acceleration (DXVA) API (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/dx81_c/directx_cpp/htm/directxvideoacceleration.asp), (be nice if the options would be added in the DivX codec config settings then auto-detect if the video cards supported it and to what extent);

Hope DivX codec developer(s) can look into if this could be fully or partially used for most of its supported codecs and graphic/video controllers?

Summery: Microsoft DirectX Video Acceleration (DXVA) allows DirectShow based software decoders to accelerate video playback directly on the graphics processors (GPU) if your graphics processor supports DXVA and has built-in technology to accelerate MPEG-4 ASP file playback, DXVA can provide (GPU) hardware acceleration. DXVA is an application programming interface (API) with a corresponding motion compensation (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/ddraw_2ab799f5-77bc-497c-9c64-68903bb940fb.xml.asp) device driver interface (DDI) for acceleration of digital video decoding. DDIs are also provided as part of DXVA; a deinterlacing DDI (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaref_d72180f0-84bc-4acf-b263-6f6c7e9f7b22.xml.asp) for deinterlacing and frame-rate conversion of video content, and hardware upconverting, and a to support ProcAmp DDI (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaref_557ca488-5ca9-4595-994f-18eafa171f77.xml.asp) control and postprocessing of video content. DXVA provides an interface definition focused on support of MPEG-2 "main profile" video (formally ITU-T H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2), but is also intended to support other key video codecs, like example, H.263 and H.261, and MPEG-1, and MPEG-4.

A good exampel of the benifits of using DVXA for video acceleration is that you could decode HDTV (720p/1080i) MPEG-4 with a PIII 1400Mhz CPU (possible even less), a task that would normaly require a P4 2,400Mhz CPU if the card does not support DVXA HWMC. Or if you have a faster CPU then you can record something at the same time as you are playing back something else on the same Windows PC, (as with DXVA most of the playback/decoding effort gets loaded onto the GPU so the CPU can be doing something more/else).

Other post-processing featutes achivable via DVXA (if the video adapter hardware support it):
- Hardware iDCT motion compensation and subpicture decoding
- Hardware based IDCT (Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform)
- IQ (Inverse quantization)
- Full-frame video playback of HDTV content on slow CPU's (1000Mhz+ ?)
- Independent hardware color controls for video overlay
- Hardware colorspace conversion (YUV 4:2:2 and 4:2:0)
- 5tap horizontal by 3tap vertical filtering
- 8:1 up/down scaling
- Perpixel color keying
- Multiple video windows supported for CSC and filtering
- Subpicture alphablended compositing
- Alpha-Blending Surface
- Real-time frame-rate conversion

Developer links:
- Microsoft Developer information on DirectX Video Acceleration (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaguide_30c21a63-691d-4ada-b469-08790b3b6c29.xml.asp)
- How Decoders Use IAMVideoAccelerator (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/howdecodersuseiamvideoaccelerator.asp)
- Mapping DirectX Video Acceleration to IAMVideoAccelerator (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/52mappingdirectxvatoiamvideoaccelerator.asp)
- DVXA API/DDI Specification (Rev 1.0) (DirectX 8.1 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/dx81_c/directx_cpp/htm/directxvideoacceleration.asp)
- DirectShow DirectX Video Acceleration Video Subtypes (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/directshow/htm/directxvideoaccelerationdxvavideosubtypes.asp)
- Enabling DirectX Video Acceleration in a custom player (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wmform95/htm/enablingdirectxvideoacceleration.asp)
- Windows Media Format 9.5 SDK Enabling DirectX Video Acceleration (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/wmform95/htm/enablingdirectxvideoacceleration.asp)
- DirectX Video Acceleration Video Subtypes (DirectX 9.0 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/directxvideoaccelerationdxvavideosubtypes.asp)
- IAMVideoAccelerator Operational Specification (DirectX 9.0 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/522directxvaiamvideoacceleratoroperationalspecification.asp)
- DirectX Video Acceleration Motion Compensation Callbacks (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/ddraw_28178ef1-ce67-476d-bdf0-f854fc342b4c.xml.asp)
- Calling the Deinterlace DDI from a User-Mode Component (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/graphics/hh/graphics/dxvaguide_6691221e-f352-47f9-8345-b38d0955fd2a.xml.asp)
- Per-Pixel Alpha Blending (DirectX 9.0 C++ Archive) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/perpixelalphablending.asp)
....AND MUCH MORE available on a Microsoft Development Network search (http://search.microsoft.com/search/results.aspx?qu=dxva&View=msdn&st=b&c=0&s=1&swc=0)

PS! I know mosy GPUs don't support DVXA HWMC for MPEG-4 yet but many more will sure come out soon...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Good question and nice post Cyberace ;)


Cheers

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Cyberace
PS! I know mosy GPUs don't support DVXA HWMC for MPEG-4 yet but many more will sure come out soon...

And here is the problem :)

We've taken a look at DXVA, and it does indeed look promising. The problem is that right now there isn't much hardware to back it up. Another problem comes with the demographic we'd be servicing: The people who could benefit from DXVA MPEG-4 with top-of-the-line 2005 graphics cards are the very same people who have the fastest CPUs, fastest RAM, fastest hard drives, etc. Do those people want/need acceleration?

Other factors include just how much is actually implemented on the card: If we can only leverage certain parts of the decoding in hardware, we have to suffer bus transfers etc. which reduce the benefit of the optimization. If you have to send a ton of video back and forth you're going to reduce your machines performance even if you're not using the CPU.

There are also some situations where you might not want to hand off the entire process to hardware, for example: Our post-processing might be nicer than that of the IC on the hardware. Then we have to start considering "What do our users want?".

We also have to prioritize DXVA inline with any other work we want to do!

So the DXVA question is a hard one to answer. I hate to leave yet another thread hanging with "we're looking into it", but at least that's better than "ain't gonna happen" ;)

[LordRPI]

REMOVED

[Cyberace]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K ...it does indeed look promising. The problem is that right now there isn't much hardware to back it up.Well latest ATI Radeoon-Series and VIA's Embedded Platforms/Mainboards (http://www.viaembedded.com) and GPU/IGP (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/graphics/)s for starters ;)




Originally posted by LordRPII'm near 1000% certain that any card supporting DXVA would also support at least DirectX Shaders, ARB Shaders and either ATI Smart Shader technology or nVIDIA's equivalent. You wouldn't have to pass video back through the AGP or PCI-X (extreme?) bus. Shader technology is more than suited to do post processingTrue, todays programmable shaders (2.0 and 3.0) are more than capable to blow your mind on this :D

[Sharktooth]

May be interesting: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95066

[Cyberace]

Not directly related but still interesting here in regards to new GPU's featuring hardware acceleration: ATI announced H.264/AVC hardware acceleration (http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseText.asp?compid=105421&releaseID=713852) :cool:

[WorBry]

Digital56K

I've been using DivX Fusion Build1528 on my PC running XP for some time, with no problems. However, I've run into a problem after installing (over DivX 5.21 Pro) on another PC running W2K Prof. Specifically, when configuring the codec, I get the error message "Problem encountered trying to find working directory C:\DivX". For sure, no default DivX temp file folder has been created on the C drive. If I create one myself and browse to it in the temp file path in Advanced settings, the encode job just crashes in VirtualDubMod. On uninstalling Fusion, 5.21 still works OK. I've tried re-installing 5.21 and then Fusion, but with the same error.

What to do?

Thanks,

[ChronoCross]

A Minor Workaround to it is simply to choose a different directory. such as the folder holding the video you want to encode.

[neo_anderson]

hey, i have some news, according to a website,divx 6 is finally coming out on June 6th! i do not know if it is fully reliable or true, but check it out here : http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=184#more-184

[ChronoCross]

hey, i have some news, according to a website,divx 6 is finally coming out on June 6th! i do not know if it is fully reliable or true, but check it out here : http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=184#more-184

lets hope with divx 6's release it'll have 10x the quality...I'm definitely not impressed with the beta's but we'll see.

[CrisCr0ss]

so these are the new DivX advances.

Still confused, will Divx have Menus/subtitles etc? (that would be cool for the less space of a dvd)
Also current DivX Certified player eg. DVP-642 will they be compatable?

[ChronoCross]

so these are the new DivX advances.

Still confused, will Divx have Menus/subtitles etc? (that would be cool for the less space of a dvd)
Also current DivX Certified player eg. DVP-642 will they be compatable?

If I remember correctly as long as you use one of divx 6's profiles(HT, HD, etc) it should play on current divx certified players.

[Bathrone]

This will be quite interesting. We have a new standard developing with H.264 being the selected codec for the next gen HD DVD / Bluray titles.

Will Divx manage to surive against H.264?

Will the computing grunt necessary to decode H.264 mean DVD players will also have the mips for HD Divx?

What relevance will Divx have in this new era?

[Cyberace]

Is June 14th and there is no news about divx 6 , any roadmap?Sounds like they won't release it this month, but they are hinting that it will be released 'soonish' enough, (maybe next month?) (http://forums.divx.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/911101651/m/614107742/p/4) :rolleyes:

[DrP]

The only news I have is that fusion is once again complaining about being an old expired BETA!

[Cyberace]

damn, my guess was wrong!, DivX 6 was released this month after all, late yesterday on the 14th of June as a matter of fact:

http://www.divx.com/divx/whatsnew.php
http://www.divx.com/divx/play/
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http://www.divx.com/divx/play/index.php?hpd6=player-en
http://www.divx.com/divx/converter/?hpd6=converter-en
http://www.divx.com/movies/revelations.php?hpd6=dmf-en

New forum discussion threadhttp://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=95862

[DrP]

Doh!!.