Multi-angle/Interleaving Problems (Known Issue #12)

[wmansir]

I'm starting this thread to focus discussion on problems rebuilding IlVu DVDs. If you run into a problem with one, or have any suggestions or insights please post them here.

v1.0 RC1 and IlVu issues start HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=681902#post681902).

Background:

Multi-angle or Interleaving (IlVu) is an advanced feature used on some DVDs. It is most commonly used to place two versions of a film on one disc, for instance a "theatrical" and "Director Cut". It can also be used to allow the user to flip between alternate footage for a scene, for instance a storyboard or rough cut animation and the final product.

Starting with v0.65 DVD-RB can process IlVu DVDs. The best way determine if you have such a DVD is to check the log file/Status panel after DVD-RB runs the 'prepare' step, which will let you know if they were detected by reporting "-- ANGLE and/or INTERLEAVING is present".

Problems:

Possible problems include audio/video skipping, freezing or stuttering in software or hardware players. Some players may play one angle/version fine, but corrupt the others, so be sure and check them all.

Half-D1 or Convert LB->16:9 is not possible with IlVu discs at this time because the IlVu portions are not re-encoded. This may also cause video quality problems if a disc contains large sections of IlVu video.

[rayvt]

I made a pretty detailed bug report here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86096

I think that I provided enough information so that it can be easily duplicated---it's with a popular movie and the bugtracks (once you know what to look for) are easily detectable with a computer dvd player.

[wmansir]

One issue I reported in the EclPro thread was that I was having a problem with DVD-RB encountering a rebuild error when using Procoder. I thought I would repost it here for anyone following the known issues link to discuss ilvu issues. Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=562780#post562780) is what I reported then.

The error was Error #0006 during rebuild. I can confirm this was still present with at least v0.69. It only happened with procoder generated files, the CCE generated ones worked fine. In fact it was only 2 out of 80 or so .mpv files that had any problems. The rebuild would succeed if I substitued 2 CCE generated files for the problem ones without any further changes.

[wgw]

I recently tried to encode Aliens which had interleaving (theatrical and directors cut on one DVD). I stripped one of the titles with DVDStripper so that bitrate would be acceptable. The stripped source played OK with PowerDVD, but the DVDRB output would skip to the end of the movie if Next was pressed. I used DVDRB v0.67 and CCESP. On standalone players, the audio would stop playing at half of the chapter points. I had to press fast forward for half a second to get the audio back. I finally just stripped and encoded the movie only. I never tried to encode the whole disk without stripping because the bitrate would have been ridiculously low and unwatchable, so I don't know if DVDRB would have worked OK without stripping.

[dannyv]

Originally posted by wmansir

The error was Error #0006 during rebuild. I can confirm this was still present with at least v0.69. It only happened with procoder generated files, the CCE generated ones worked fine. In fact it was only 2 out of 80 or so .mpv files that had any problems. The rebuild would succeed if I substitued 2 CCE generated files for the problem ones without any further changes.

Were these 2 cells blank or very small lets say under 3 meg by any chance. I trooubleshot an error 9 problem that led directly to blank cells and this sounds very simular. Expecially when you mentioned substuting .m2v files fixed the problem. I substituded cells from the original source materal to fix the problem. See this post starting on page 6. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75168&perpage=20&pagenumber=6. I'm wondering if this all can be related.

[wmansir]

No they were sizable, I think at least 10+ MB. They appeared to be identical to the CCE output. Same framecount, attributes, etc. The only odd thing was the ProCoder output had very funky GOP patterns, but all the other ProCoder cells were pretty much the same. I couldn't figure out why those particular cells wouldn't mux.

[dannyv]

Originally posted by wmansir
No they were sizable, I think at least 10+ MB. They appeared to be identical to the CCE output. Same framecount, attributes, etc. The only odd thing was the ProCoder output had very funky GOP patterns, but all the other ProCoder cells were pretty much the same. I couldn't figure out why those particular cells wouldn't mux.

These error 9 problems I'm having are with cce 2.67 it seems 2.50 works well. I'm doing some test with some other series DVD's so lets see what happens. I'll be posting my results in the error 9 thread if you wish to keep up with my progress.

[brashquido]

Opps, missed this thread this morning :rolleyes:

I've got three angle / interleaving movies that I have keep aside waiting for the day that DVD-RB would be able to process them. I decided to give them a go with DVD-RB 0.72 and 0.73, but I've been unable to get any of them to work. The movies I tried are all PAL R4 and were all processed with no optional settings configurde (half D1, decomb, etc);

K:19 Widowmaker

DVD-RB actually fully processes this movie, but in one section of the movie in particular I noticed that the movie (both audio and video) starts to stutter and gets so bad that the movie almost completely freezes.


The Cell

Processing of this movie failed in the prepare stage with the following error;
http://www.it-hq.org/uploads/img41fe18c624e03.gif


Indentity

This movie failed during the prepare phase with a 'Run Time Error 6' message. I did try to do a search on this, but the search function on these forums seem to be broke at the moment :-?.

[pg55555]

The Cell
If I'm not mistaken, the "cce encoding failed: CBR VBV overflow" is related to the lack of enough available bitrate to process a particularly difficult cell in CCE VBR mode, so it is not a RB bug but a CCE one.
The work around is to encode in OPV mode.

[brashquido]

OK, I'll give it a shot. Is there anyway DVD-RB can detect this happening and make adjustments accordingly?

[BobZhome]

Originally posted by BobZhome
I'm also having problems with Multi-angle and 0.73
The results are way under sized, under 3 gigs.
It happened with two movies(Chasing Amy & Kikis Delivery Service)

The funny thing I noticed is that the Speed in CCE is alot faster than normal. Normally the speed is in the high two's/low three's. But with these two movies the speed was above six.

I do preprocess my movies with either TitleSetBlanker or VobBlanker, but I have used them in the past with Multi-angle movies with perfect results.

I plan on tring an older version of DVD-RB to see if I can get these movies done.

I used the follow programs on these movies:
DVDDecrypter_3.5.2.0
VobBlanker_1603
DVD-Rebuilder v.73 with CCE SP v2.67.00.27 with AviSynth v2.5.5(DGDecode.dll)

Let me know if you need more info!

Quote from thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89273

I swithed back to version 0.69 and everything came out perfect!
I think when support for CCE 2.7+ happened in 0.73 is when this problem with older CCE's started.

[rte5]

Concerning undersized output from Multi-angle DVDs.

It appears that rebuilder is calculating the final size of the DVD with the angles, but when finished, some of the angles are missing. This accounts for the reduction in size.

e.g., in the red shoes, the storyboard-animation-comparison VOB is missing from the rebuild.

[jdobbs]

Please make sure you don't have ILVU_Extract=1 enabled in the INI. That can cause this as well as more serious problems.

[brashquido]

I tried using 0.74 to convert K:19 Widowmaker again, but with the same problems. It does seem though that *some* of the stuttering has gone, or at least reduced. There is still a few spots however where it almost completely freezes up.

[brashquido]

Just tried K:19 again with .76 with the same stutter/freezing issues. One thing I noticed is that the movie stutters/freezes even when playing the VOB file directly. I've tested playing the vob file on two seperate PC's runnning PowerDVD and it sturrers/freezes on both. I tried using Media Player, BSPlayer and Zoom Player, but they all crashed when trying to play this vob file.

[wmansir]

Originally posted by rte5
Concerning undersized output from Multi-angle DVDs.

It appears that rebuilder is calculating the final size of the DVD with the angles, but when finished, some of the angles are missing. This accounts for the reduction in size.

e.g., in the red shoes, the storyboard-animation-comparison VOB is missing from the rebuild.

I've encountered this a couple of times. Most recently with the Monsters, Inc bonus DVD (which is an entire PITA since it has 93 VTSs). Every time I've seen it happen I noticed the VTS is ENTIRELY made up of IlVu material. The Monsters Inc disc actually had 2 VTS with IlVu material. One is entirely IlVu and one has 1 single 00.15 duration chapter in addition to the IlVu material. The one entirely made of IlVu material didn't get rebuilt, but the other one did. That's not proof of anything, but perhaps it's a clue.

The workaround for this is to copy the entire VTS over and run a Get VTS Sectors. Since it's all IlVu material it wouldn't have been re-encoded anyway.

[SpazzHH]

Just did O Brother, Where art Thou? with 0.81. Titles 12 and 13 are 3 angle Storyboard jobs. The files at 646mb and 642mb were never re-encoded or included in the rebuild. They were however figured into the project apparently at full size, because when I copied them into the finished output folder it stood at 4.36 and the disc plays great on my Philips. I wish I new which details to include in this report. If you have any further questions please ask. I love this program !!! Thank You all so much!!! I am having some of the strangest glitches with 0.81. The other versions have been flawless.

[TuRiSOft]

The last time I tried to backup an ILVU dvd was with "garfield , the movie" Italian version , reg.2 PAL. It contains some ILVU extras in the same TitleSet of the main Movie. I don't remember the RB version I used to backup it (probably 0.75), I remember I got error#6 , so I watched original m2v and re-encoded m2v w/VirtualDub , figuring out the non-encoded part and the re-encoded part of the ILVU section had I frames at different positions. Maybe I'm wrong , but in ILVU parts we must have same positions for every I frame (cce has an option to restrict Auto I frame insertion , I think it was made for this).
So I believe most of the problems are related to this thing.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by TuRiSOft
The last time I tried to backup an ILVU dvd was with "garfield , the movie" Italian version , reg.2 PAL. It contains some ILVU extras in the same TitleSet of the main Movie. I don't remember the RB version I used to backup it (probably 0.75), I remember I got error#6 , so I watched original m2v and re-encoded m2v w/VirtualDub , figuring out the non-encoded part and the re-encoded part of the ILVU section had I frames at different positions. Maybe I'm wrong , but in ILVU parts we must have same positions for every I frame (cce has an option to restrict Auto I frame insertion , I think it was made for this).
So I believe most of the problems are related to this thing. I don't think they could be related... because at the moment DVD-RB doesn't reencode the ILVU sections. So the I-Frames would all be exactly as originally authored.

[t3rror]

jdobbs,

How is the IlVu work coming along? This seems to be the most requested feature, and I was just wondering. Thanks again for all the work you do with this program.

[jptheripper]

he said its a main goal for just before or at the 1.0 release

[TuRiSOft]

Originally posted by jdobbs
I don't think they could be related... because at the moment DVD-RB doesn't reencode the ILVU sections. So the I-Frames would all be exactly as originally authored.

So it was an error because one of the ILVU section was encoded!

I can try to repeat the process another time if you want. Now I'm on 0.81Pro.

[doomer2]

Unfortunately, I found this thread only after I'd already created a new thread. Tried to delete the original to move it here, but the forum didn't let me. Maybe a moderator will kill the other thread for me. Anyway, here goes:

I just tried a backup of my new copy of Taxi (NTSC), which I found out is an IIVu/Interleaved dvd.

While Rebuilder seemed to detect the interleaving and gave no errors during processing, the output, while playable, skipped around wierdly between the two interleaved video chains, like the segments weren't handled correctly during pre-encoding cell blocking and/or reassembly. Specifically, the sections that I noticed are around 5-7 minutes into the "extended" version, and the time jumps backward and skips some material at least once in that area when playing it. Strangely, doing a reverse scan from the next chapter appears to show the material that is skipped when playing forward. :confused:

There are probably more problems in other areas, but I only checked the first few minutes.

Since DB didn't give any errors, not sure what else I can tell you, but if there is info that will help, I will be happy to supply it.

[brashquido]

Sounds like you're in a similar boat to me doomer2. I've been trying to backup K:19 WidowMaker for a while now with very similar problems in the interleaved/Multiangle VTS, only K:19 seems to just go into slideshow mode with very servere audio and video stutter. It doesn't seem to jump around or miss sections at all, although it does play fine if you play it at ANY speed other than 1.0 x forward (normal play speed). I can play in slow motion, fast forward, and reverse with no stutter. It is only when playing the movie at normal speed.

[jdobbs]

I'll ask the same question again: Have either of you burned it and tried it on a standalone?

I'll pick up "Taxi" tomorrow and test it...

[brashquido]

No. I suppose the reason I skipped this test myself is that if the original is played without any such behaviour, and all my other DVD-RB projects don't display this difference in before and after behaviour in PowerDVD, why should it be a problem with PowerDVD now? I will try it though just to clarify.

[doomer2]

Originally posted by jdobbs
I'll ask the same question again: Have either of you burned it and tried it on a standalone?


Sorry, I did not see that you asked about a standalone test. No, I didn't try that, since I've never had one work in the standalone that didn't work in the software ones. However, I did try a couple of different software players, and they both didn't like it. If I get a chance, I'll reencode it tonight and let you know in the morning.

[jdobbs]

There are different was to handle interleaved video. If it works in a standalone (which it probably will), then I use that information to help find out what the software player is choking on.

Software players sometimes "cheat" in the way they handle DVDs when they aren't on a disc.

[brashquido]

I burnt it to DVD-RW jdobbs, but the stuttering still exists, although the video stutter is nowhere near as pronounced. I'll post details in other thread.

[doomer2]

Well jdobbs, you were right. I reencoded it overnight and burned it this morning, and it does appear to play ok in my standalone. I didn't have time to check much of it, but the specific problem area I was looking at seems to work ok.

[jdobbs]

One for two... oh well, that's still battin' .500. I'm working on the ILVU encoding section, I'll see what comes up...

[doomer2]

I'm having a problem with a DVD that I've been trying to make a backup of for the past several RB versions, but RB keeps creating a significantly undersized image, at about 3.3gig instead of 4.3, and seems to still be the case with .80. The dvd in question has a lot of computer animation shorts on it (16 VTS's with one title each).

After digging around, I found out the reason the dvd is undersized is that the rebuild is apparently not processing a few of the VTS's that are multiangle. It creates the IFO's and menu vob for those VTS's, but the title vob is missing.

If I copy the missing vob's from the original over to the rebuilt dvd, it seems to be the right size, and even seems to play ok. But because those vobs aren't being reduced, the video on the rest ends up fairly crappy.

So, if RB really isn't supposed to rebuild those VTS's, I'm assuming that not copying the original vobs over during the rebuild is a bug.

But I'm curious as to why those vts's aren't being rebuilt, when there are other multiangle VTS's that are, and also if there's any way I can force it to rebuild them so as to gain space and raise the quality of the rest.

Thanks!

[jdobbs]

I'm curious too. If anyone knows of an NTSC R1 title that shows this symptom -- please let me know so I can fix it.

Thanks!

[SpazzHH]

O Brother Where Art Thou NTSC R1. Last 2 VTS are 3 angle, don't get re-encoded or copied to output folder during rebuild. If you do a manual copy, title works great.

[jdobbs]

Cool... I actually own that one! Great movie, eh?

I should be able to get this fixed for v0.83 now. Thanks!

[btspm]

Do I understand correctly that ILVU material is not reencoded? I have a disc that is almost entirely interactive content that turns out oversized by about 2 GB when I run it through DVD-RB. Seems to work ok at first glance, but I'm wondering if I can tweak anything to get the size down. The other potential problem is that it consists of a lot of short clips. IIRC, DVD-RB doesn't reencode very small segements also- correct? Could both of these problems conspire to cause oversizing?

[lark]

yep, ilvu segments are not re-encoded.
short VTSes are not re-encoded by default, but you can change this in the ini.
sure both of these can lead to oversized dvd.
cannot you remove some audio tracks or blank (or convert to stills) some parts of the dvd?

regards
t :)

[doomer2]

I'll ask the same question again: Have either of you burned it and tried it on a standalone?

I'll pick up "Taxi" tomorrow and test it...

Did you get a chance to check this? I just tried reencoding it with 0.93, hoping that the IIVu fix mentioned in the changelog might have fixed this, but it still happens in my software players. Still seems to work in my standalone though, but it works with a lot of out-of-spec dvds.

Thanks.

[wmansir]

I just did The Abyss, R1, with 1.0RC1. The encoding and rebuilding went fine, the only problem was it came oversized @ 4.65GB. My targetSectors is modified, but consistently gives 4.37GB with previous versions. Also, I used ProCoder.

[02:08:02] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- AVS Filters are enabled.
- VTS_04: 3,807,243 sectors.
-- ANGLE and/or INTERLEAVING is present.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
- Processed 90.7MB ILVU section...
- Processed 212.4MB ILVU section...
- Processed 111.3MB ILVU section...
- Processed 150.0MB ILVU section...
- Processed 146.1MB ILVU section...
- Processed 577.2MB ILVU section...
- Processed 286.5MB ILVU section...
- Processed 52.1MB ILVU section...
- Processed 126.6MB ILVU section...
- Processed 137.4MB ILVU section...
- Processed 97.3MB ILVU section...
- Processed 127.7MB ILVU section...
- Processed 98.1MB ILVU section...
- Processed 64.5MB ILVU section...
- Processed 105.0MB ILVU section...
- Processed 518.0MB ILVU section...
- Processed 669.8MB ILVU section...
-- Processed 303,368 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 53.8%
- Overall Bitrate : 2,278Kbs
- Space for Video : 3,518,794KB
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 3,009/600/2,278 Kbs
[02:18:44] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 10 minutes.

Next I'm going to try Clerks X with CCE and the default TargetSectors. It's much shorter and I won't have to use filters and ProCoder for good quality, so the process should take less than half the time.

EDIT: Should also say, just as with previous IlVu Rebuilds it did not work in IfoEdit's player, but did work in PowerDVD. I couldn't test it on a standalone because it was too big to burn.

[wmansir]

My bad, I think. While messing around last night I changed the source directory after the prepare phase. I changed it back before encoding the project, but apparently this reset the audio selections and included a 2.0 track I had manually deselected. I'm burning a test disc now.

[jdobbs]

Please let me know how it comes out. I've gotten a report in another thread that the Abyss failed... I was about to go out and get it.

[wmansir]

Unfortunately I have to report the same results as Muttlover in the other thread. The theatrical edition jumped just as he described in PowerDVD. The special edition version played fine from what I saw. I was mistaken when I stated it worked fine in PDVD earlier. I also tried it in WinDVD with the same results.

On the standalone neither version played correctly. They both jumped back and forth between the versions every second or so.

FYI, Walmart has a preorder up (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3942720) for and ID4/Abyss 2 pack, both contain the SE and Theatrical release (http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?wrk=6928061) using IlVu, just like their current seperate releases. The good news is the price is $19.88 for both movies, the bad news is they don't ship until August, 9.

[jdobbs]

Which version did you use in your test? (there seems to be a "Special Edition", a "Fullscreen Edition", a "Widescreen Edition" and a "Double Digipack Edition"). I will look for it tomorrow so I can wrap this up...


[Edit] Oh, I forgot the regular edition... geeezzz!

[wmansir]

It's the widescreen Special Edition, 2-disc.

I did a little research and this exact release is OOP. The Digipack is the exact same discs, but with different packaging. It replaced the original 2-disc release a couple of years ago. Also, I believe the current single disc SE, which sells for around $10, is Disc 1 of the original 2-disc set. So basically, they're all the same disc.

[curious d]

While my attempt to back up Beauty and the Beast with version 1 RC is better than 0.932 Pro, the images are still blocky around the edges of the characters and the extras are still stuttering (ISO playback). Blocky quality is not anywhere nearly as bad as the previous edition. This is true for the SE version as well as for the Original Theatrical Version. I was using 25% reduction for the extras, HC encoding set on mpeg matrix and best quality. Any thoughts as to better setting? Thanks.

[TheSeeker]

Im getting the buffer overflow error 6 and I believe the runtime error 5 on Alien, Disc one of the alien quadrilogy. It errors on segment 128 so I would say thats about 90 percent through the rebuild process. No preprocessing was performed. JDobbs. If you dont have them already, I highly recommend the Alien Quadrilogy as they seem to be the biggest pain in the butt Seamless branching titles in existance.

[jdobbs]

I'll see if I can pick them up this morning as well. Even though I already own all the Alien movies... I'll tell you, it is really frustrating to keep buying the same movies over-and-over just to get the next "extended high-performance, high-octane edition". LOL

[TheSeeker]

I know what you mean. Studio's just love to milk them for all their worth don't they? Im sorry if I made it sound like you HAD to buy the movies. I just know that they probably represent the most difficult to backup titles that I know of. Just thought they would be a good testing grounds, especially for the new seamless branching/ILVU engine.

[jdobbs]

Hey, that's what donations are for! Yes, I want to do tests on the most difficult movies... if you can get past those the little ones just fall in line.

[Plutox]

Forgive me if this is a dumb schmuck question, but with the new ILVU support, what is the best way of going about a disc that uses seamless branching to create multiple edits of the same film (director's cut, producer's dog's cut etc.) if I want to backup, say, just the director's cut as a single title with no fancy features?

Just to clarify, I want to seperate one particular instance of the seamless branching rather than reproduce the ILVU in all its complexity.