PgcEdit v0.4

[jeanl]

Originally posted by blutach
You're doing everything same as me jean.

However, and a bit OT, so I apologise, I have always wondered why a title has a cell command to LinkTailPGC in say, its last cell or next to last cell (if there's a 1 sec last cell).

Makes no sense (at least to this uneducated bum)! Why don't they let the cell complete its playback and link to the post commands anyway?

Yes, I've often wondered about that!


PS. I have no prblems with PowerDVD 5 with this. But my high end player doesn't seem to like em (occasionally). Sh&ts the living daylights outa me.

Wait, are you saying that PowerDVD5 does the normal thing when it encounters a cell command in the title domain?
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

I don't have PowerDVD, but WinDVD works well. So, I agree with jsoto: it must be a bug in PowerDVD.

[jeanl]

is winDVD free? I don't seem to have that on my machine...
Jeanl

[blutach]

Originally posted by jeanl
Wait, are you saying that PowerDVD5 does the normal thing when it encounters a cell command in the title domain?
Jeanl Oui.

[r0lZ]

@jeanl
No, WinDVD is not free.

BTW, have you tried to change the cell type flags? Perhaps PowerDVD will work fine if you change the SCR discontinuity or the seamless flag...

[r0lZ]

PgcEdit v0.4.6 released.
Info -> Go To Calling Command function.
Menu Buttons Viewer now displays the video in the correct aspect ratio, and selects the buttons group matching the player setup in Trace mode.
Miscellaneous enhancements and little bug fixes in Menu Buttons viewer and Trace mode.
PGC Editor: The total number of buttons displayed in the PGC selector was wrong after the user accepted the modifs in the PGC Editor. Fixed.
New 'Play All' Title: Fixed the Next, Prev and GoUp PGCN of the new PGC.

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ
@jeanl
No, WinDVD is not free.

BTW, have you tried to change the cell type flags? Perhaps PowerDVD will work fine if you change the SCR discontinuity or the seamless flag...
mmmm didn't think of that, I'll try that and report...
Jeanl

[2COOL]

I got a -1 Title when using a my trace with a FBI warning in my VMGM. No big deal to me but confusing for someone new joining the scene.

http://img65.exs.cx/img65/6717/trace4mt.png

[2COOL]

@r0lZ

Clarification needed.

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/4923/image0088kw.gif

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ
@jeanl
BTW, have you tried to change the cell type flags? Perhaps PowerDVD will work fine if you change the SCR discontinuity or the seamless flag...
BINGO!
r0lZ, you nailed it on the head. Indeed, if I remove the seamless flag on the cell that has the cell command, then PowerDVD does not ignore the cell command... I don't need to put a SRC discontinuity (although I would think it would be a good idea)...

Maybe there's something to be learned here. Maybe PgcEdit should automatically clear the seamless flag if there's a cell command... I'm not sure what the specs say, but if PowerDVD fails on that kind of stuff, that's not good. I'll go and check whether cells that have cell commands are usually not flagged as seamless.

r0lZ, what do you think?

Jeanl

EDIT: Here's what I found on a few DVDs:
- In the menu domain, I've seen cells with cell commands that were flagged as seamless, but that was rare.
- In the title domain, all the cells that had cell commands were never flagged as seamless. I didn't find many such examples, but I have one DVD with a lot of BOV (buttons over video) and cell commands in the title domain.

[blutach]

I have found that, counter to what has been said in this forum, I need to remove the SCR flag after a cell cut/blank in order for the playback not to falter at that final cell in my high end standalone.

Weird.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by 2COOL
I got a -1 Title when using a my trace with a FBI warning in my VMGM. No big deal to me but confusing for someone new joining the scene.

http://img65.exs.cx/img65/6717/trace4mt.png That's because the FBI Warning is in the menu domain, and is played before any other tithe was played. I set -1 as the default title number to show that it is not actually a real title number, and that the RSM command is still not usable at this point.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@r0lZ

Clarification needed.

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/4923/image0088kw.gif Right.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by jeanl
BINGO!
r0lZ, you nailed it on the head. Indeed, if I remove the seamless flag on the cell that has the cell command, then PowerDVD does not ignore the cell command... I don't need to put a SRC discontinuity (although I would think it would be a good idea)...

Maybe there's something to be learned here. Maybe PgcEdit should automatically clear the seamless flag if there's a cell command... I'm not sure what the specs say, but if PowerDVD fails on that kind of stuff, that's not good. I'll go and check whether cells that have cell commands are usually not flagged as seamless.

r0lZ, what do you think?

Jeanl

EDIT: Here's what I found on a few DVDs:
- In the menu domain, I've seen cells with cell commands that were flagged as seamless, but that was rare.
- In the title domain, all the cells that had cell commands were never flagged as seamless. I didn't find many such examples, but I have one DVD with a lot of BOV (buttons over video) and cell commands in the title domain.
Well! That's good to know.
It's difficult for me to change the seamless flags of any cell with cell-command. PgcEdit is not an automatic 'fixer' for bad authoring. But I will clear the seamless flay whenever PgcEdit adds a cell-command in title domain via a macro.

[2COOL]

@r0lZ

Did you know when a NTSC user uses the New DVD macro, it creates a PAL VIDEO_TS.IFO?

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by blutach
I have found that, counter to what has been said in this forum, I need to remove the SCR flag after a cell cut/blank in order for the playback not to falter at that final cell in my high end standalone.

Weird.
Are you sure? I can't imagine that a player could have difficulties with a SCR flag set when not needed. Could you be more precise, and post an example?

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@r0lZ

Did you know when a NTSC user uses the New DVD macro, it creates a PAL VIDEO_TS.IFO? Hum! Not surprising! I have no way to know the standard of the user.
But anyway, it doesn't matter. There is no video in the First-Play PGC. If you need to import a VMGM menu, it will have the correct video standard.

[blutach]

Originally posted by r0lZ
Are you sure? I can't imagine that a player could have difficulties with a SCR flag set when not needed. Could you be more precise, and post an example? Don't have the files on the PC anymore but I was backing up Billy Bathgate R4. Cut credits in last cell with VobBlanker. VB placed a type 10 in 2nd last cell and a 2 in the last (cut) cell.

Strange thing:

Low end player - no problems (but it will play anything except football).

High end player - when playing and came to 2nd last cell, just stopped. Needed to press Next Chapter button on remote to restart it. Took out the 10, made it 8 and no problems. Note: I could skip with chapter skip buttons no problems and if I entered the 2nd last cell via the chapter selection menu, again, no problems with playback.

As I said, weird huh?

BUT: Type 8 works - at least for me.

Regards

[r0lZ]

OK. Thanks. I'll make some tests on my Sony...

@jsoto: what do you think?

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ
Well! That's good to know.
It's difficult for me to change the seamless flags of any cell with cell-command. PgcEdit is not an automatic 'fixer' for bad authoring. But I will clear the seamless flay whenever PgcEdit adds a cell-command in title domain via a macro.
That's exactly what I was hoping for! Thanks a bunch!
Jeanl
P.S. (question, what will you do if the user changes the cell command back to 0?! ;))

[blutach]

@rolz

mpucoder has said some very interesting things here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=568536#post568536).

Can you please tell me how PgcEdit handles the GetVTS Sectors where there are small (10K) VOBs and indeed IFOs and BUPs (less than 32k). Does it ensure IFOs and BUPs do not occupy the same 16 sector block?

Regards

[r0lZ]

No. I forget about that.
The VTS Sectors calculation function of PgcEdit do exactly the same thing as the Get VTS Sectors of IfoEdit: if places the files as near as possible.
If I do it the way recommended by mpucoder, Nero will burn fake DVDs, IfoEdit will complain, and DVDShrink will probably do DVD with too much data to fit on a DVD-5.
Maybe I can add this new save mode as an option...

[blutach]

Just wondering that's all. I am tending to burn with DVD Decrypter now anyway, which preserves the structure of the disk including, presumably, its 32k ECC boundaries. It just burns an ISO image.

I don't know if DVD Shrink makes disks which keep things in their own 32K borders. I wonder if, to make things totally compliant, our blanks should be 32K, not 10K? I think someone else might have raised this idea with jsoto in regards to VobBlanker.

But there is also the thing about small IFOs and BUPs needing to be separate and we can't enlarge them "cosmetically".

Something to think about.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by blutach
Just wondering that's all. I am tending to burn with DVD Decrypter now anyway, which preserves the structure of the disk including, presumably, its 32k ECC boundaries. It just burns an ISO image.What do you use to create the ISO?
I've just tried to change the VOB starting sector with IfoEdit, make an ISO with ImgTools Classic, and burn the image with DVD Decrypter. Works fine on my standalone. But I wonder if the gap is effectively present on the image. I don't know a good way to test that.

I don't know if DVD Shrink makes disks which keep things in their own 32K borders. The generated VTS sectors are exactly the same after the DVD is saved by PgcEdit.

I wonder if, to make things totally compliant, our blanks should be 32K, not 10K? I think someone else might have raised this idea with jsoto in regards to VobBlanker.It might be the best solution. The DVD will be burnable with Nero too.

But there is also the thing about small IFOs and BUPs needing to be separate and we can't enlarge them "cosmetically". What to do when there is no VOB at all (for example, no VIDEO_TS.VOB)? Should I create a fake VOB anyway? And how to pad the VOB so that the total size will be 32K? Is it enough to pad it with null bytes? I wonder if it is legal...

[r0lZ]

@mpucoder

What must be done to ensure there are at least 16 sectors between the IFO and the BUP? Is it enough to set the Start Sector of V*_VOB to at least 16? Are there other pointers to modify as well?

Do you know a burning program able to handle the gaps correctly (without the need to make an ISO image)?

[blutach]

Originally posted by r0lZ
What do you use to create the ISO?AFAIK, ImgTools Classic will generate a perfect ISO and DVD Decrypter has its burner built in. As well, after processing, DVD Shrink can create an ISO, but as I said before, I am not at all sure whether it honours these 32k boundaries.

What to do when there is no VOB at all (for example, no VIDEO_TS.VOB)? Should I create a fake VOB anyway? And how to pad the VOB so that the total size will be 32K? Is it enough to pad it with null bytes? I wonder if it is legal... Me neither, but I suppose an approx 2 second blank VOB could be created, which should be about 40k. This would simply end up as unreferenced material.

I'm pretty sure that there is no necessity to have a VIDEO_TS.VOB. I have seen many commercial DVDs without one, or with one that is 0K. The point mpucoder was making is that certain files need separation, particularly the IFOs and BUPs.

I do hope mpucoder can give a further opinion and information on this.

Best regards

[ukendt]

Hi peeps and thx for the good work:D
I'd like to report a small bug. In version 46 the view function of Vob/Cell ID is not always working(the cursor will move but nothing is shown). This bug is not there with the 45 version

[blutach]

@rolz

I also a have small bug - I have a menu PGC (with 110 buttons!) that won't show with Ctrl-M. The other menus show fine and there were no VobBlanker style V/CID order changes.

I can email you the IFOs if you like rolz, but the menu vob is 228Mb. (I suppose I could just demux the cell, if necessary).

Tell me what you want to do.

regards

[r0lZ]

@ukendt
Is it in the Vob/Cell ID remapping function? What is the exact behavior? When you said "nothing is shown", do you mean that the available VOB or/and Cell ID number is not refreshed?

Or is it wirh the preview of individual cell?

@blutach
Yes, I've already found and fixed this bug. It happens when the first cell of the PGC has no buttons. I will post a fixed version soon...

[blutach]

Heh! I was going to mention that! Nice work.

[ukendt]

Is it in the Vob/Cell ID remapping function? What is the exact behavior? When you said "nothing is shown", do you mean that the available VOB or/and Cell ID number is not refreshed?
I use ur proggy to remove warnings and trailers before reencoding.
(I found out this method works very well)
In order to see what to remove I look at powerdvd and the figures it shows buttom left then I open pgcedit and go to relevant stream, click on it and I get the new window where Vob/Cell ID are shown.
I click on the right cursor in order to see I hit the right celle and ur proggy will show the content but only with earlier version. The last version will mostly show a continous black picture while the cursor above this picture moves as it should.
If I open the very same cell with an earlier version of the proggy, it will show the cell content without probs.

[r0lZ]

OK. Your problem is with the preview of individual cells.

Strange. I cannot reproduce the problem here.
Maybe you cannot see the image if there are other apps running at the same time, using the display renderer. Have you tried to close PowerDVD before launching the preview? It must be something like that, because I have not changed the Preview functions in the last version, and the PgcEditPreview executable is also the same.

If it still doesn't work, please try this: launch an earlier version of PgcEdit. Go to the install directory of that PgcEdit. In the bin subfolder, copy the PgcEditPreview.exe file, and paste it in the bin folder of the current version. Try the new version, and see if it works.
To restore the bin directory to it's original contents, simply delete it. It will be recreated the next time you launch PgcEdit.

[ukendt]

Thx for ur help again (and the very quick answer:p ).
I never have power open while working with pgcedit since power "locks" the files and won't allow any editing(well, most of the time)
I did as U suggested and the prob is gone(I deleted the new bin and copied the old one):D THX AGAIN

[r0lZ]

@ukendt: You copied the preview of which earlier version? It's important for me and jeanl to know when the bug appeared...

[ukendt]

Bug only appears with last version (0460). I used 0450

[r0lZ]

This is verry strange. As I said, the preview exe is the same in both versions. I have compared the files, and there are no differences at all!
Maybe you had a problem when downloading the PgcEdit archive?

[jeanl]

ukendt,
could you possibly compare the two binaries (the one that didn't work and the one that works), just to see if they're indeed identical? Do you still have the one that didn't work? I'd like to get my hands on it!!!!

As a matter of fact, if you could send me your version of PgcEdit 0.4.6, that would be great. I might be able to see whether I get the same problem on my machine...
I'll send you a pm with my email.
Jeanl

[blutach]

Raises interesting point.

I am in habit of deleting bin folder whenever I install a new version of PGCEdit and have not had ukendt's problems. Is this a necessary thing to do?

Rgds

[r0lZ]

Normally no. There is a little binversion.tcl file in the bin directory that is used to test if the bin directory matches the actual version. If the version number in the file don't match the current PgcEdit version, the binaries are reinstalled again.

However, the problem may be that PgcEditPreview.exe was in use when the new version was launched for the first time. But I can't imagine that the problem occured twice (for version 0.4.5 and 0.4.6)

[r0lZ]

@2COOL

Remember point 2 of this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79853&perpage=20&highlight=LaBarge&pagenumber=12#post562497)? DVD-Replica was [edit: almost] right. A comparison with a SPRM as the first operand will in fact compare the GPRM instead of the SPRM [edit: in some cases]. I have modified the GUI of the command editor to remove the first SPRM in the IF part, and the disassembly of the commands to display <ILLEGAL SPRM(x)> when a SPRM is used.
Sorry. I tested this situation on many players, but I suppose that the value stored in the tested SPRM was the same as the value of the GPRM with the same number!

EDIT: Well, actually it's alot more complex. As stated by mpucoder here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79853&perpage=20&pagenumber=13#post562950), some commands can compare a SPRM with a GPRM, SPRM or constant value. It's the case of GOTO, for example.
So, this command works: 1 if ( sprm(16:Preferred audio language) == 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 30 }But this one will NOT work!:1 if ( sprm(1:Audio stream number) == 1 ) then { Goto line 30 }This means that the commands beginning with codes 80 to DF are not able to use a SPRM as the first operand, and the other commands can use some SPRMs as the first operand!
I must test each sprm to see which are legal. :(
The DVD specs are a jungle! :devil:

[2COOL]

@r0lZ

I almost forgot about that bug but thanks for going back to it. If not for mpucoder for clarifications, we wouldn't have known the details.

[blutach]

And I've just gone and ordered Ralph's book! Guess I need an mpucoder book instead.

:scared:

[r0lZ]

Well. I have make some tests with IfoEdit's preview and my Sony.
My conclusion is that it is NEVER possible to have a SPRM as the first operand of an IF test.

I have tested all SPRMs with GOTO commands: for example with if ( sprm(0:Preferred menu language) == 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 10 }Everytime, the value tested in the first argument is the value of the GPRM with the same number as the SPRM in the command line, ored with 0x0F.
For example, the line above will in fact do this test:
if ( gprm(0) == 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 10 }
And this testif ( sprm(18:Preferred sub-picture language) == 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 6 }is equivalent toif ( gprm(2) == 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 6 }

I have made the tests in the FP-PGC, a VMGM menu, and a VTSM menu. The result is always the same: it doesn't work!

So, my conclusion is that both Ralph LaBarge and DVD Replica are right, and mpucoder wrong. I will definitively remove the SPRM option in the PgcEdit's GUI.

@2COOL: You said here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79853&perpage=20&pagenumber=13#post562942) that you've found IF tests with sprms 0, 1 and 2. Are you sure? This is in contradiction with the behavior of the players!
Could you remember in which domain you have found these commands?
Do you still have the IFOs? I'd like to have a look at them...

@mpucoder: You should consider an update of your DVD Information site. If you want to be sure, I may send you the (verry small) DVD I have made to be able to check the result of the tests with a standalone player.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by r0lZ
@2COOL: You said here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79853&perpage=20&pagenumber=13#post562942) that you've found IF tests with sprms 0, 1 and 2. Are you sure? This is in contradiction with the behavior of the players!
Could you remember in which domain you have found these commands?
Do you still have the IFOs? I'd like to have a look at themSorry r0lZ! :( I don't have the IFOs anymore on my harddrive nor I know what DVD is was. I'll try to do a search in my collection when I get home from work.

BTW, I was wondering about something. When checking the layerbreak column in PgcEdit, I noticed that usually the first cell has a layer break check but is greyed out. The Cell's type flag is,of course, 2 but what does the the greyed out checkbox mean?

[jeanl]

Originally posted by 2COOL

BTW, I was wondering about something. When checking the layerbreak column in PgcEdit, I noticed that usually the first cell has a layer break check but is greyed out. The Cell's type flag is,of course, 2 but what does the the greyed out checkbox mean?

In fact, r0lZ, can you clarify what "layer break" means here? I did a quick search but I'm still puzzled. What does it mean in the context of a PGC cell? Is it related to the concept of layer break in dual-layer DVDs, or is it something completely different? Why does the box get checked automatically when I change the cell flags?

As you can see, I'm totally confused!

Jeanl

[r0lZ]

The layer break is greyed to show that it is not the "real" layer break. The first cell is a non-seamless cell, but usually not the layer break.

In the actual version, if a cell is not seamless, the layer break flag is set, and if the cell must be seamless, the checkbox is disabled, so that the user will not try to remove it. This is the case also, for example, after a blank out or a Vob/Cell ID remapping, when the first LBA is not equal to the last LBA of the previous cell + 1.

@jeanl: The layer break is effectively the point where the laser must go from layer 1 to layer 2. In old versions of DVDShrink, the layer break was not cleared automatically. This was ennoying, as it leaved a pause in the middle of the main movie, even if the DVD was shrinked for a DVD-5.

To be able to go to layer 2, the cell must have the seamless flag cleared. So, the layer break flag is the inverse of the seamless flag: it is on when the seamless flag is off. But this may be confusing, as the seamless flag has another usage, as you know. This is why it is disabled when it is necessary to have the seamless flag OFF.

[2COOL]

@r0lZ

Where you at, one point, going to do a macro to clear out layer breaks?

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by 2COOL
Where you at, one point, going to do a macro to clear out layer breaks? Is it still useful? Now, DVDShrink correctly removes the layer break. And finding it is easy: double click on your main title, and locate the non-disabled layer break flag. Clear it and save.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by r0lZ
Now, DVDShrink correctly removes the layer break.Hmmmm....I did a quick test. I made sure that my "remove layer breaks" option is checked in preferences. I reauthored few titles that had more than one layer break. My output files still have the layerbreak checks. A few originally had the last cell, type flag 2, greyed out but after DVD Shrink, it's still showing a check.

[r0lZ]

That's probably normal. The small last cell used as a dummy last chapter is often in a specific VOB cell, not contiguous of the last chapter of the movie. See the LBAs...
Anyway, it's obviously not a real layer break. I can't imagine a layer break placed at a few frames of the end of the movie.
This means that DVDShrink do a good job: it doesn't set the seamless flag when it's not a real layer break.
Of course, if you find a layer break in the middle of the movie, that means that DVDShrink missed it.