Sync problems. Help!!!

[toros]

Hi guys,
I am nubbie in DVD subtitles and I have a few questions.

I have demuxed Terminator 2 in .m2v and .ac3. The movie has no subtitles so I want to put one. I found one in .sub format ( frame based ) and on the first line it says that the frame rate it 23.978. I tried to play the m2v to find its framerate. The PowerDVD says its 30 fps and ZoomPlayer says 23.976.

Q1? How should I find the accurate frame rate?

I want to make DVD with Maestro. So I have to transform it to .stl. But .stl is timebased format, so it makes no difference about drop frame or no drop frame, because the movie length is not changing . Q2? True or not?

Q3? How do I find if the movie is drop frame based?

So assuming that video is 23.976 fps, and the subtitle is 23.978, I load the .sub subtitle in Subtitle Workshop and changed the FPS. When I choose TIME from dropdown combo, I see that the subtitle is 1 minute longer than the movie. I then use TIME ADJUST and set correct end time. But when I preview in Maestro, in the beginning is OK, but in the middle subtitle is still out of sync.
I must be doing something wrong. Please help, I do not want to adjust every subtitle by hand.
Thanks.

[ukendt]

Gspot will tell U which framerate for the movie.
If U ripped the movie from NTSC the frame rate will be 29,97, from PAL 25.
When I translate subs to a movie I always look into the english (or french or german or spanish or whatever I'm able to read) sub file.
In other words: I rip at least 1 sub to see the time code.
If someone else has alredy translated then I compare original and translated and, if the translation is very good, I follow the manual of STW in order to synch the subs to this particular movie.
It's hard and time consuming but this is the only way.
Otherwise, if I 'm not satisfied, I use the very same time code and translate to danish. STW is a great free tool. If U respect the time code, the subs will be in synch.
Another possibility should be using pulldown (there is even a gui to this small proggy now, look under dl at doom)if the fps is 29,97 and the subs fit 23,96.
It's hard to be sub translator but I think the best results are achieved when U translate the subs urself. It's a big satisfaction and U may put ur personal taste into it:D

[toros]

Thanks for your answer.
First of all, GSpot in not displaying my frame rate, because the codec for m2v is not installed. I tried to find the codec on their page, but there is no extra codec download possibility. I got only n/a.
Second, I still do not understand using the framebased/timebased formats for Maestro in Q2.
Thanks.
Look at this answer, it may also help:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83569

[ukendt]

If U can see m2v files U have the codecs, chose right click on the file and open with...scroll and chose the prog and tell windows to use the proggy every time.
Q2- Subs are time based in Maestro (but they are frame based in DVD-LAB pro, U may get a free 30 days trial) and NO the lenght won't be the same

[castellanos]

Toros:
When you demux you DVD into m2v and ac3, I am sure you used DVD2AVI or DGMPGDec to do that job, you didn't see the movie's framerate there? It is written in the window on the right side.
However, The advice that "ukendt" gave you is very good, if you don't want to have synch problems, you may rip, at least, one sub from the original movie (English, German, French or whatever is better for you to translate) Then, with Subtitle Workshop, you can see if your sub fit, and copy the original timing into your subs.
Greetings! :)

[toros]

Thanks guys for your answers.
1) I used VobEdit to demux. I did not noticed the frame rate, and now I can’t demux again because I do not have the original DVD anymore.
2) there was not one subtitle on the DVD to demux, it was only video and audio. It was riped and there is no menu also. That’s why I downloaded .sup subtitle and I am truing to use it.
3) about sub ripping process. I use SubRip. I see that the program does not recognize the frame rate correct, NTSC or PAL. I was ripping PAL movie today and when the SubRip started it was 29.9 in the combo. Is he supposed to detect the frame rate alone or should I put my self?
4) I downloaded new GSpot v2.52 and when I open the movie, on the right side is says: PICS/SEC 23.976 : FRMS/SEC 29.970. Second data is frames per second, but what about the first?
5) I don’t understand how “movie lenght won't be the same”?! I now that If I use drop-frame there will be less frames in the movie, but if the movie plays 01:57:40 it will stay like that. Or no?
This subtitle business is really hard gays.
:confused:

[ukendt]

1) I used VobEdit to demux. I did not noticed the frame rate, and now I can’t demux again because I do not have the original DVD anymore.
OK
2) there was not one subtitle on the DVD to demux, it was only video and audio. It was riped and there is no menu also. That’s why I downloaded .sup subtitle and I am truing to use it.
This is illegal, sorry. U must own the dvd in order to get help. Forums rules.3) about sub ripping process. I use SubRip. I see that the program does not recognize the frame rate correct, NTSC or PAL. I was ripping PAL movie today and when the SubRip started it was 29.9 in the combo. Is he supposed to detect the frame rate alone or should I put my self?
Before U rip U must know the frame rate, then U use subrip and save the file. It doesn't matter what subrip tells. Subrip will take the time code from the movie and the synch will be OK (U don't need to chose anything)4) I downloaded new GSpot v2.52 and when I open the movie, on the right side is says: PICS/SEC 23.976 : FRMS/SEC 29.970. Second data is frames per second, but what about the first?
Gspot tells U the movie is NTSC (29.97) this means frames per secund
Gspot tells U there are 23.96 pictures per secund. Both are correct.
If U wanna use ripped subs (23.96) to fit NTSC U must use dropdown.
When U "drop" the lenght of the movie won't be the same.
U have another possibility: (supposed U own the dvd that is:mad: )
read the srt file into STW and change the fps in the output.
Test again while seeing the movie.
The easyest way is always keeping the original time code and translate
according to this

[castellanos]

Originally posted by Toros
I used VobEdit to demux. I did not noticed the frame rate, and now I can’t demux again because I do not have the original DVD anymore.
My mistake, if you got an m2v and ac3, sure you used VobEdit... I don't know what I was thnking!
You can use DVD2AVI and then you are going to see the framerate as I told you.
Greetings! :)

P.S.: Good advice ukendt!

[ukendt]

I do not have the original DVD anymore.
Obviously the guy can not use dvd2avi on this 1, but maybe next time:D