(Update) DVD-RB 0.59 still experiencing stutter (Now gone)..

[Redbacks]

Maybe someone else here is having the same problems I am. As I love this program. And 1 of only 2 that I have ever contributed to. So here we go. At certain chapter points I am still getting stutter. No matter what movie I do, or version of DVD-RB I use. I thought it may have been by ripping just the main movie via shrink. But I now know that is not to be the case. As I have also done the complete movie of Gladiator (Region 4 in Australia) One that stands out like the proverbial dogs ballocks is chapter 4 (16min 45sec) The smoke from the fire. Starts off going forward, then back for 1 frame. Then forward again. I get this with all the DVD's I do. But some that come to mind are The Lord Of The Rings(All Of Them) Harry potter, Bad Boys II etc. So I would love to hear from any others in Australia that seem to be experiencing the above. I have a feeling it is in the rebuild stage of DVD-RB. But I could be way of the mark here so be gentle :) When I use the same DV2 file created by DVD-RB, run it through CCE the old way ..LOL.. Extract the chapter points, AC3 file etc. Then rebuild using InfoEdit. All my problems go away. So any help, tips appreciated. I would love to be able to just run DVD-RB overnight and wake up to no more headaches

Cheers...

[jdobbs]

There was a bug introduced in 0.57 that caused audio/video stutter. Upgrade to 0.57a.

Sorry.

[Toranaga]

Originally posted by Redbacks
Maybe someone else here is having the same problems I am. As I love this program. And 1 of only 2 that I have ever contributed to. So here we go. At certain chapter points I am still getting stutter. No matter what movie I do, or version of DVD-RB I use. I thought it may have been by ripping just the main movie via shrink. But I now know that is not to be the case. As I have also done the complete movie of Gladiator (Region 4 in Australia) One that stands out like the proverbial dogs ballocks is chapter 4 (16min 45sec) The smoke from the fire. Starts off going forward, then back for 1 frame. Then forward again. I get this with all the DVD's I do. But some that come to mind are The Lord Of The Rings(All Of Them) Harry potter, Bad Boys II etc. So I would love to hear from any others in Australia that seem to be experiencing the above. I have a feeling it is in the rebuild stage of DVD-RB. But I could be way of the mark here so be gentle :) When I use the same DV2 file created by DVD-RB, run it through CCE the old way ..LOL.. Extract the chapter points, AC3 file etc. Then rebuild using InfoEdit. All my problems go away. So any help, tips appreciated. I would love to be able to just run DVD-RB overnight and wake up to no more headaches

Cheers...

You are not alone. I also still have audio stutter. I will try 0.57a, but must admit I have last hope.

[erdoke]

Originally posted by Redbacks
At certain chapter points I am still getting stutter. No matter what movie I do, or version of DVD-RB I use.

Just a couple of questions:
Does it mean that you experienced it with RB v. 0.56 as well?
What kind of settop player, DVD burner and DVDR media are you using (old one or not, what brand/type, recording speed etc.)?
Have you done any preprocessing before putting the movie into RB (DVDShrink, DVDReMake, etc.)?

[ShadowKnight]

Originally posted by erdoke
What kind of settop player, DVD burner and DVDR media are you using (old one or not, what brand/type, recording speed etc.)?
Have you done any preprocessing before putting the movie into RB (DVDShrink, DVDReMake, etc.)?

yes, if this is a settop issue, it can have something to do with the quality of your burner and the media you use; as well as the settop player.

[Pabloz]

I dont know guys, i Have been making futurama seasons backups. every backup was OK till season4, i think i used rb 0.57 at that time,
and sometimes i got freezes of 3 seconds in the video, on the pc played fine, on xbox and home dvdplayer it didnt

on the home dvdplayer pressing the skip key to go to the next chapter i had contant audio problems ( 1sec audio, 1sec no audio, 1sec audio, and so on)

on the xbox i remember, if i did a 2x rewind in the freeze part, the xbox dvdplayer shut down lol


i might have to try dvd-rb 0.57a cos that problem was with 0,57
because i used 3 dvdplayers, and only ritek g03 media

did anyone have the same problem? is it fixed with 0.57a?

[erdoke]

Originally posted by Pabloz

i might have to try dvd-rb 0.57a cos that problem was with 0,57
because i used 3 dvdplayers, and only ritek g03 media

did anyone have the same problem? is it fixed with 0.57a?

Please read back four posts in this topic. THX

[Redbacks]

Thanks for the quick reply jdobbs. But it's been with every version that I can remember. Got me beat. I'll try 0.57a and see how I go. But then again. That's why it's still beta mate. So we can find these little teething problems and iron the little buggers out :) I won't keep repeating (this is a great program) jdobbs, as we all know it is, and we are on a great thing...

erdoke: Yes mate, 0.56 and earlier also... As for Media. Pioneer and Verbatim.. But I know it's not a media issue as it does the stutter playing from a folder on my hard drive using Win DVD 6 also.

Pabloz: I don't get any freezing on mine. It's just at certain chapter points. Always 1 frame forward, 1 back, then forward she goes with no problems. No audio drop out etc that I have noticed.

Hope I'm making sense here ...LOL...

[mr darkness]

i have been backing up pal discs since 0.55 over 30 of them and no
drop or stutter. so far

[Redbacks]

mr darkness: Are we talking Gladiator, region 4 Pal. And have you checked the scene I refer to...

[Redbacks]

Still no luck. Tried 0.57a and the new 0.58. Tried Gladiator again. Same problems exact same spot. Ah well, hopefully we will get to the bottom of this. Very strange why were not hearing too much from the people in Oz. Cause I can bet my left nut they should be experiencing the same problems.. Well maybe not my nut ..LOL..

[jdobbs]

What kind of player do you have? Also, you may want to watch the "SCR Difference..." thread. There appears to be a System Clock Reference error that (I don't know why) seems to be appearing in PAL discs. It seems the error doesn't have an effect on most players -- but might on some.

[Redbacks]

It's not just on my stand alone players jdobbs, I have a Pioneer DV-535, Pioneer DV-555K and also on my main Denon DVD-2200. As I mentioned in my original post. I also experience the exact same problems playing from a folder on my had drive using Win DVD 6. And I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the media I use (Pioneer and Verbatim) I'll keep an eye on the SCR thread...

Cheers jdobbs.

[jdobbs]

@Redbacks

What versions of CCE, AVISYNTH, and MPEG2DEC3 are you using?

Something is different -- because this is working for pretty much everyone else...

[Redbacks]

I've just tried 0.59 and still the same problems. Damn I hope I don't sound like an ungreatfull sh%t... :) I'm using CCE SP trial version 2.66.01.07, ECLCEE 1.81, Mpeg2dec3 ver 1.01.0 and AviSynth 2.5. As I said though jdobbs. When I use the DV2 file created by DVD-RB and run it through ECLCEE I don't have a problem. Only seems to be on the rebuild.

[Fr4nz]

Try to reinstall Windows.

If the problem doesn't disappear...then it's a DVD-RB bug :D

[dragongodz]

i think the most important parts here are
I am still getting stutter. No matter what movie I do, or version of DVD-RB I use.
as it does the stutter playing from a folder on my hard drive using Win DVD 6 also.

the other reports of problems have all been with just some movies and have even had slightly different results with some version of DVD-RB. if you are getting this problem with EVERY dvd then its a bit strange. i think i will have to get give 1 of the films you mentioned a try later this week.

[jdobbs]

@Redbacks,

Do you let DVD-RB and CCE run alone, or do you use your computer for other tasks also while it is processing?

[lamster]

Originally posted by dragongodz
the other reports of problems have all been with just some movies and have even had slightly different results with some version of DVD-RB. if you are getting this problem with EVERY dvd then its a bit strange. i think i will have to get give 1 of the films you mentioned a try later this week.

Actually, I think the stutter problems were found to be player-specific - I never had a problem testing my DVD's on the player in the bedroom, and only discovered that I had the problem when the kids tried it on a different player. I started checking stuff I had burned, and everything that I tested that had been compressed showed a problem on that player. Everything had looked fine with IfoEdit's "Play DVD" function; I never tried WinDVD.

[jdobbs]

Is it an old player -- some have problems with DVD-R?

[lamster]

I'm not sure how old a model it is; I haven't had it that long. It's a Polaroid DVP-300. And, I'm only using DVD+R and DVD+RW.

[Fr4nz]

Does your set-top dvd player read ORIGINAL DVDs well?

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by lamster

I started checking stuff I had burned, and everything that I tested that had been compressed showed a problem on that player...

Originally posted by lamster

I'm not sure how old a model it is; I haven't had it that long. It's a Polaroid DVP-300. And, I'm only using DVD+R and DVD+RW.


So it seems that in your player you have never been able to play a DVD+ or +RW disk... Is this actually true ?

Try to author on a +R/+RW disk (with Ifoedit or with another different tool) some DVD material and see if it play...

Try also to do the same with a -R/-RW...

Please consider that the +R/+RW disks (and compatible players) have been available on the shelf later than -R, since it could be a media compatibility issue of your player [it should have the +R logo printed on some part, or check its manual, if available]...

Cheers,
SD

[DVD Maniac]

Reading all the latest posts about the SCR bug I was hopeful that v0.59 would fix my audio drop our problems. I just tried one of my problem movies and sorry to report that the drop outs are still there - in exactly the same points.

Damn! this bug is a real nightmare!

I really thought you had this nailed this time mr dobbs!

Please Keep on trying - I am sure you will get this sorted eventually:D

[lamster]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
So it seems that in your player you have never been able to play a DVD+ or +RW disk... Is this actually true ?

Nope - what I wrote was (emphasis added):
Originally posted by lamster
everything that I tested that had been compressed showed a problem on that player.

Other backups I've made have played fine on that machine.

I just went back and tested a variety of backups, including ones written to Philips DVD+R 2.4x, Memorex DVD+R 4x, and (unlabelled) DVD+RW 2.4x. (I tested a fair number of each combination.) In all cases, the originals played fine, and the backups which hadn't been compressed played fine; the backups which had been compressed all displayed more-or-less continuous stutter.

I also tried taking an original that fit onto DVD-5, running the prepare phase, renaming *.MPV to *.M2V, and running the rebuild phase. The resulting DVD played fine, which indicates it's not just the rebuild; it's a combination of the compression and the rebuilding.

I've been using QuEnc; others reporting the problem have been using CCE. Has anyone experiencing the stutter been using Rejig? If not, maybe I'll give that a shot to see if there's any variation in the results.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by lamster
Nope - what I wrote was (emphasis added):

I also tried taking an original that fit onto DVD-5, running the prepare phase, renaming *.MPV to *.M2V, and running the rebuild phase. The resulting DVD played fine, which indicates it's not just the rebuild; it's a combination of the compression and the rebuilding.


This is interesting to hear...
Just as a curiosity, did you (or anyone of the kind guys who are actually exprincing the problem) try to reauthor again some parts of the REBUILT title, with another application like ifoedit or dvdlab, just to see if the problem is still there with a different remux engine ?

Cheers,
SD

[lamster]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Just as a curiosity, did you (or anyone of the kind guys who are actually exprincing the problem) try to reauthor again some parts of the REBUILT title, with another application like ifoedit or dvdlab, just to see if the problem is still there with a different remux engine ?

No, but if you tell me what to do, I'm willing to give it a shot.

Rebuilt "Master of Disguise" using Rejig last night, and the result played flawlessly. I only had time to test 5 - 10 minutes, but I tried a few chapters, and where with QuEnc it had been unwatchable, it was now perfect. It's only a sample of 1, but maybe it's meaningful to someone. (This was run on the same machine; using the same DVD+RW; the only difference was Rejig instead of QuEnc.)

[Sir Didymus]

@lamster

Well, I do not want to encourage any type of dirty tricks, but just for the sake of testing:

1. Take the output of a movie rebuilt with 0.59 and open the first vob of the movie VTS_xxx.VOB using vobedit.

2. Demux the movie (check the whole title set and all of the streams).

3. Now you have the m2v file (movie) and the ac3 (hopefully just one) audio. You may want to extract the chapter positions of the title using ifoedit.

4. Please consider that ifoedit and other reauthoring tools may have (or to say better, they atually have) their own little or big bugs. The point is that you have a big advantage on other testers, i.e. you can hear the audio dropout, so maybe you or other people may give some useful indications (like the last you have posted)...

5. If you use ifoedit, reauthor a new dvd, place the video file, the audio file and the cell position file in their boxes, and reauthor it.

Cheers,
SD

P.S. Sorry for the many imprecise indications, as I am actually in a place where no ifoedit and any other tool except iexplorer is available, so I am using my memory as a reference, that is a very bad reference...

[lamster]

Could everyone experiencing the problem please post the make and model of the stand-alone player (or players) that's stuttering, indicate if it's progressive scan, and indicate if they've had success with the same DVD on other stand-alone players?

Polaroid DVP-300, progressive scan, works fine on my Conia (which I don't believe has PS).

[Redbacks]

lamster: I have mentioned what make, model and discs I use. But this has nothing to do with my problem. As I mentioned. It does the same playing from a folder on my hard drive using Win DVD 6.

I'll try what Sir Didymus said as I am convinced my problem is in the rebuild stage. So I will see how VobEdit does with the rebuild.

[Trahald]

@redbacks
Ive played with rb a few times and never saw flaws with a software player. I'll try Lotr (TTT or fellowship).. you have the EE? and if so .. at what points do the flaws show?

[lamster]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
@lamster

Well, I do not want to encourage any type of dirty tricks
Dirty Tricks "R" Us ! :devil:

I did what you described for The One, which includes both widescreen and fullscreen versions. The remuxed widescreen version shows about the same problems as the original rebuilt fullscreen version.

[lamster]

Originally posted by Redbacks
lamster: I have mentioned what make, model and discs I use. But this has nothing to do with my problem. As I mentioned. It does the same playing from a folder on my hard drive using Win DVD 6.

I'll try what Sir Didymus said as I am convinced my problem is in the rebuild stage. So I will see how VobEdit does with the rebuild.

Well, I didn't see mention as to whether or not they were progressive scan. You may be right that it has nothing to do with your problem, since I don't see a problem with software playback (only tried PowerDVD and IfoEdit; don't have WinDVD). You might have a different problem; I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible. (The phrase, "grasping at straws" springs to mind... :( )

I agree with you that it's likely in the rebuild stage, but once it's been rebuilt with something out of whack, I don't see how demuxing and remuxing it could straighten things out again.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by lamster
Dirty Tricks "R" Us ! :devil:

I did what you described for The One, which includes both widescreen and fullscreen versions. The remuxed widescreen version shows about the same problems as the original rebuilt fullscreen version.

lol...

:D :D :D

You joke with my very little confidence with the English grammar...

...anyway, if I do what you suggest, you would lose the huge joy of discovering them by yourself, browsing in the few tousand threads of this wanderful doom9 forum...

;)

Ok. Let's go on with some brainstorming...

1. Thanks for your test, it is again very informative, and it is supporting a theory (it's nothing more than just a feeling I have...).

2. That is: 0.59 rebuilt titles that are showing audio dropouts problems can not be cured through the usage any reauthoring tools (Ifoedit or Shrink or Dvdlab or Scenarist...).

3. Welcome and appreciated any feedback from users having evidence against 2...

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by lamster
...
I agree with you that it's likely in the rebuild stage, but once it's been rebuilt with something out of whack, I don't see how demuxing and remuxing it could straighten things out again.

I do not share your point of view; at least it could be even true the contrary: if you use an external authoring application (which is not in beta test) and if we assume (or know) that the video and audio contents extracted with a plain demuxing process from the transport stream are not corrupted, then it should be possible to reauthor the title in a proper way.

Being able to demonstrate that it is always impossible to "straighten things out again" is a quite certain indication that the audio and/or the video streams have been corrupted in some way in the process, pointing out that the encoder work could be faulty. This is actually not demonstrated and quite difficult to believe...

The point (as you have indicated in a previous post) is that for DVD-RB, both the encoding and the authoring steps are involved in the process. The evidence that the actual audio troubles are concentrated in the rebuilding phase, or that they are due to some parameter passed to the encoder, or both is just not actually available, imho...

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by lamster
Dirty Tricks "R" Us ! :devil:

I did what you described for The One, which includes both widescreen and fullscreen versions. The remuxed widescreen version shows about the same problems as the original rebuilt fullscreen version.

...I have one of those to propose to you... :)
...What about trying to remux, again with IfoEdit, The One, but using THE ORIGINAL AC3 AUDIO TRACK instead of the one extracted from the rebuilt title ? It should be possible, since the whole rebuilding process is supposed to leave untouched the audio stream. Of course now you know the way of using VobEdit for extracting an audio track from a title... Please just take note (and use) in the extraction the right audio stream ID number...

...In case you still get a faulty result (i.e. again stutter problems, as I guess), we can at least exclude by sure that the trouble is introduced by some mess-up on the audio track...

Cheers,
SD

[fritzdis]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
...I have one of those to propose to you... :)
...What about trying to remux, again with IfoEdit, The One, but using THE ORIGINAL AC3 AUDIO TRACK instead of the one extracted from the rebuilt title ?
A simple binary comparison of the original AC3 and the one taken from the rebuilt title would be enough to eliminate audio corruption as a cause of the stuttering. There were some posts a little while back about Rebuilder (slightly) changing the audio files, but I think that jdobbs fixed the issue and that no one has reported changed audio since. Still, it can't hurt to do the comparison just to make sure.

[Sir Didymus]

Agreed!!!
Totally true... No need to burn again a +RW...

You are making very clean my dirty suggestions...
:)
Cheers
SD

[Blackout]

Ok Redbacks, i am in Australia (Melbourne), i own an original Region4 PAL of Gladiator....and im using RB 0.59 and CCE. I will do a encode in the next few days and get to the bottom of this. Whats the exact time and chapter point that you experience problems? i dont want to particially watch a 3 hour movie that closely...

Cheers,
Blackout

[TheSeeker]

Well here's the question of the hour.... When lamster demuxed the files to .m2v and .ac3, do these files separately play fine? You should be able to test out and play both with WMP and see if there is stuttering and if so which one is experiencing the corruption. Also if they play just fine then we can be a little more sure that the problem arrives with DVDRB rebuild stage. If this has been tested already just tell me to shut up. I personally am not experiencing the problem (i play all on playstation 2 for now) but my biggest worry is that I will buy a new dvd player and none of my backups will work so Im really up for getting this issue figured out.

[lamster]

Originally posted by fritzdis
A simple binary comparison of the original AC3 and the one taken from the rebuilt title would be enough to eliminate audio corruption as a cause of the stuttering.

They're not quite the same.

The one that I demuxed yesterday from the rebuilt VOB is 293,450,528 bytes. The one I just extracted from the original VOB is 293,452,544 bytes. However, they compare the same for the length of the shorter file.

(Based on the date of the VOB, I'd guess that it was processed with QuEnc 0.53 and Rebuilder 0.56.)

updated...
Results for another VOB (from Master of Disguise) were similar - the .ac3 from the original was 270,092,032 bytes; the rebuilt one was 270,090,016 bytes; 'fc /b' showed no difference before the rebuilt one ended.

This one was QuEnc 0.54 and Rebuilder 0.58. I'll post results for something rebuilt by 0.59 in the morning.

[lamster]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Well here's the question of the hour.... When lamster demuxed the files to .m2v and .ac3, do these files separately play fine?

I tried a few minutes of each, and saw no problems.

[Redbacks]

Thanks Blackout.. I did mention the chapter and time position in my first post. But anyway, here it is...
Chapter 4 (16min 45sec) The smoke from the fire. Starts off going forward, then back for 1 frame. Then forward again. I picked this one as it stands out and should be easy to see what I mean... That is if you experience the same problem :)
I'll be interested to see how you go..

Cheers...

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by lamster
They're not quite the same.

The one that I demuxed yesterday from the rebuilt VOB is 293,450,528 bytes. The one I just extracted from the original VOB is 293,452,544 bytes. However, they compare the same for the length of the shorter file.

(Based on the date of the VOB, I'd guess that it was processed with QuEnc 0.53 and Rebuilder 0.56.)

updated...
Results for another VOB (from Master of Disguise) were similar - the .ac3 from the original was 270,092,032 bytes; the rebuilt one was 270,090,016 bytes; 'fc /b' showed no difference before the rebuilt one ended.

This one was QuEnc 0.54 and Rebuilder 0.58. I'll post results for something rebuilt by 0.59 in the morning. The size difference is a known bug. Sometimes a single audio packet get's removed from the very end of the audio stream (about 41 milliseconds, I think)-- it is negiligible, but I will eventually fix it.

[lamster]

Originally posted by jdobbs
The size difference is a known bug. Sometimes a single audio packet get's removed from the very end of the audio stream (about 41 milliseconds, I think)-- it is negiligible, but I will eventually fix it.

Got the same results with 0.59.

Is there any chance that trying to divide the audio stream up when it's shorter than expected results in minor timing glitches? Or am I just displaying my ignorance of how it works? :confused:

[jdobbs]

It doesn't result in timing glitches. I said it was negligible. It is. Look for the problem somewhere else. Following this logic is a waste of time.

[Noah]

I'm getting a video stutter on a 4-pass (3 + vaf) CCE rebuild (0.59) of Man on Fire region 1 widescreen at about 4:52. It also appears to be a time map error since when I rewind over that point it jumps back about a minute. This is all with Power DVD and does not appear in the source.

[Redbacks]

OK then, finally I think I am home free on the stutter scenario... I was using the 1.0.1.0 version of mpeg2dec3.dll. Which I'm told is the stable one. But I thought I would try the version posted in the DVD ReBuilder: Installation, Setup, and Usage sticky. Same version 1.0.1.0 but apparently modified. So I tried it and ran Gladiator through it. Bingo, no stutter on the pain in the ass point I described in my original post. So I'm a happy little vegie tonight. I'll see how I go...
I would also like to get down on my knees and grovel at the feet of jdobbs for even thinking that there may have been a problem with the rebuild stage :)

Cheers to all for there help...

[Fr4nz]

Hey guys read from here:

Originally posted by Redbacks
OK then, finally I think I am home free on the stutter scenario... I was using the 1.0.1.0 version of mpeg2dec3.dll. Which I'm told is the stable one. But I thought I would try the version posted in the DVD ReBuilder: Installation, Setup, and Usage sticky. Same version 1.0.1.0 but apparently modified. So I tried it and ran Gladiator through it. Bingo, no stutter on the pain in the ass point I described in my original post. So I'm a happy little vegie tonight. I'll see how I go...

Cheers to all for there help...

[jdobbs]

Uhh... we have an embedded do-forever loop here. Your "read here" link points to this thread.