Ateme H.264 Beta - Bug, Issues and Getting Started

[superdump]

Originally posted by Sirber
I did that, Ateem H264 is being used. No frames is displayed also. I know this is very stressfull for a codec, but RV10 and VP6 can manage to have good to medium quality on that test clip.Did you try without b-frames and with something like '-deblock -2 -adaptdeblock'? Maybe even stronger than that. Try a few different settings and see what the best you can get is. When the b-frame problem is fixed you can make a proper comparison.

[Sirber]

At 3000kbps and at 600kbps, I can't play it. Karl seems to have played it correctly. I will check if it's bframe related, tomorrow :D

[LostMP4]

Last test (with beta-1)
This time to check ABR mode accuracy and to make a "faster" encode - quality is still very good and without B-frames

Core encoder version 1.0.1.14

Resolution : 720x576 @ 25.00 fps
Length : 72840 Frames
Rate Control : Abr
Target Bit Rate : 1200 kb/s
Quality : Normal
Init Quantiser : 20
Num Reference : 0
Psychovisual : 0
Cartoon mode : Off
Features : ipred ppred hpel qpel part

-- Start processing pass 1 / 1
* 72839: encoding @ 24.34 fps - bitrate 76.19 kb/s - 100.00% completed
* 72840 frames encoded @ 5.78 fps - average bitrate 1199.27 kb/s

[Jukke]

Originally posted by bobololo
Nice, you find a little glitch in our file handling. You may have a previous file using the same name. Delete av.mp4 and try again. It should be better then. Let me know.

-- bobololo. Bingo!
After re-muxing audio/video with no av.mp4 present the file sizes are just normal.

Audio: 1496kb
Video: 13315kb
Audio/Video: 14826kb

btw, my interlaced analogue TV-sources encodes pretty well, despite what the documentation says about interlaced material.

[plonk420]

bobololo, just like LAME has certain bitrates / presets that are tested a lot, are there any bitrate targets you might want to see tested more or genres of movies/video that would be more helpful than not? ie, Finding Nemo or, say, The Cell's "trip" sequence, or 30i/25i video?

[Teegedeck]

I believe finding a lead to good presets is one of the tasks beta-testers are supposed to fulfil.

[plonk420]

Originally posted by Sirber
Output is still unplayable, with ffdshow or your filter. MPC uses 70% CPU though...
[/B]

what bitrate and resolution? and i guess what clip? i got 720x480 @ 800kbps playing just fine on a AXP 1800+ with the beta1 decoder

[Selur]

just finished my 1st full film encode: (with beta 1)

Source: Demolition Man PAL DVD

input avisynthscript:
----------------------
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\DEMOLITIONMAN169\VIDEO_TS\demolitionman.d2v")
crop(4,66,712,438)

encodersettings:
----------------------
"D:\encavc-beta-1\encavc" -i "D:\encavc-beta-1\demolitionman.avs" -o "D:\encavc-beta-1\demolitionman_753.mp4" -qual extra -rcmode 2pass -br 753000 -psy 2 -maxb 3 -par 16:9 -setef part -ref 5 -qp 12

an ended up with this:
http://selur.privat.t-online.de/line.jpg

haven't investigated much but since my earlier encodeings all look fine I suspect the line to be cased by the resolution 712x438.

Cu Selur

[plonk420]

man i'm feeling dumb tonight... how do you disable bframes? is it
-maxb 0
or
-setef bpred
i tried -setef bpred and bpred still showed up under Features
(this line: Features : ipred ppred bpred cabac deblock hpel qpel part)

[Jukke]

Originally posted by plonk420
man i'm feeling dumb tonight... how do you disable bframes? is it
-maxb 0
or
-setef bpred
i tried -setef bpred and bpred still showed up under Features
(this line: Features : ipred ppred bpred cabac deblock hpel qpel part) Try -clref bpred

[Sagittaire]

@ Selur

exotic resize 712x438 ... perhabs
use mod16 ...

@ Bobololo

with beta-2 (low compressibility encoding)

encavc.exe -i clip.avs -o H264-2000.mp4 -qual extra -rcmode 2pass -qp 30 -br 512000 -psy 2 -deblock -2 -adaptdeblock -ref 5

and ...

http://jfl1974.free.fr/Test/Comparatif/H264vsVP6-500.JPG

always RC probleme for the end of encoding ... target bitrate control is perfect (too perfect ... ???): quality is visualy very worst for the end ...

Perhabs a RC command ...

- RC light
poor target bitrate but very constant quality

- RC normal
good target bitrate and constant quality

- RC hard
perfect taget bitrate but constant quality is not certain

[Selur]

exotic resize 712x438
No resize, just cropping
(anamorph encoding is da way to go :D)

use mod16 ...
I will, just wanted to point out, that it`s buggy if your resolution is not mod16. :)

doing a small test with beta2 (same resolution) atm, and then with a mod4/mod8/mod16 encode, to see if mod4/8/16 is enough :)

=> same resolution with beta2 gives no problem :)

Cu Selur

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

I did an encode of a 688x560/25fps clip with: -rcmode 2pass -br 600000 -clref qpel

I am unable to decode it in real time on my PIII 1.1GHz. I understand that this type of computer has not been sold since a few years, but I would have liked to be able to play it.

The thing that immediately come to my mind would be to reduce deblocking filter based on decoding speed. I understant that deblocking is done in loop on the encoder side and is a mandatory part of the standard, but perhaps some people could prefer to have a non compliant output than not beeing able to decode in real time.

Regarding ringing: it is quite different from the "usual" ASP ringing. It looks more like noise than ringing.

[bobololo]

To users who still have troubles with basic encoding, playing muxing, etc and can't get started (hey Sirber it's for you ;)). I strongly suggest you to join #mpeg on irc.freenode.org, there you'll find some fast and efficient support helping you to get the stuff working. So if you still are unable to encode and playback your file whereas every other seems to have no problem, just go there so we can prevent transforming this thread into a "getting started support" thread :)

Thanks.

ps: perhaps if this still continue, we really should split the thread into : "getting started, trouble & functional issues support" thread and "Quality feedback" thread as one of you already suggested ? What do you think ?

-- bobololo.

[Selur]

may be splitting into:
- getting started
- quality feadback
- bug report

Cu Selur

Ps.: didn`t happen with beta1:
-does anyone besides me have problems to playback beta2 files with tcmp? works fine with graphedit and wmp. (since it works when I, open it in graphedit and then open it in tcmp without closing graphedit I suspect it is a tcmp bug.)

-adding ffdshow as postprocessor gives me a green screen

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Sagittaire

with beta-2 (low compressibility encoding)

encavc.exe -i clip.avs -o H264-2000.mp4 -qual extra -rcmode 2pass -qp 30 -br 512000 -psy 2 -deblock -2 -adaptdeblock -ref 5

always RC probleme for the end of encoding ... target bitrate control is perfect (too perfect ... ???): quality is visualy very worst for the end ...

Perhabs a RC command ...

- RC light
poor target bitrate but very constant quality

- RC normal
good target bitrate and constant quality

- RC hard
perfect taget bitrate but constant quality is not certain

Just 2 small points :
1. your encode parameters don't give the best possible PSNR (-psy 0 -deblock -0 -cartoon should be better). For instance, -psy 1 or 2 should improve fades at the expense of the PSNR.

Regarding objective metrics like SSIM, our encoder should be above everybody else (including VP6 :-), but it's not the point in this beta test. We are far more interested by testers feelings.
Beeing 1 dB above XvID does not always implies that people with eyes prefer our encoder's results.
I've still in mind an XviD encode given by Cruncher that stuned me about the details and sharpness but that had relatively low objective metrics.

2. I guess I know the exact sequence you're using :-). I've not tried it lately and I'll check it tonight. This particular sequence stresses very much the fast 1st pass algorithm...

For the end of the sequence, you (and Superdump) made your point. The beheaviour will be modified to be on par with the rest of the sequence.

About the accuracy, I don't want to change it since it's very good and it's a very important issue to "normal" users.

Finally, don't suppose the RC algorithm we're using. It's very different from XviD or ffmpeg (AFAIK).

[LostMP4]

Beta 2, low bitrate, no B-frames (some blocking noticeable...)
Maybe an Abr related "bug": about at 98% encoding i noticed bitrate to stay over 6000 kb/s for a few seconds (to reach the filesize, I guess). It's better have an undersized file than having these peaks (visually "useless" but troublesome for playback from a CD and maybe incompatible with many profiles)

Core encoder version 1.0.1.16

Resolution : 720x576 @ 25.00 fps
Length : 72840 Frames
Rate Control : Abr
Target Bit Rate : 600 kb/s
Quality : Extra
Init Quantiser : 20
Deblocking Strength : -2 (adaptive)
Num Reference : 0
Psychovisual : 0
Cartoon mode : Off
Features : ipred ppred cabac deblock hpel qpel part

-- Start processing pass 1 / 1
* 72839: encoding @ 16.21 fps - bitrate 62.54 kb/s - 100.00% completed
* 72840 frames encoded @ 4.36 fps - average bitrate 599.77 kb/s

Encoding complete

[LostMP4]

A question about RAM usage in encoding: is it normal it uses about 200 MB? Is that related to the available RAM (I've 1024 MB) or a must?

[Teegedeck]

@anyone having playback problems: Do you have any other h.264 codec installed? Make sure to remove it if altering priorities in MPC or Windows' videocodec properties doesn't help. Delete the dlls if all else fails. (Make a backup copy if you're not quite sure what you are doing...)

[Selur]

takes about 110MB on my system with 512MB RAM and about 220MB on my system with 1024MB RAM.
=> no must :)

Cu Selur

Ps.: only h264 decoder I have on my system is ffdshow, but since I disabled h264 support in it, this shouldn`t be the problem.

[LigH]

Probably not much to add here (I'm a little late):

avs2mp4.bat@ECHO OFF
IF "%1" == "" GOTO NoParam
IF "%2" == "" GOTO NoParam
IF "%3" == "" GOTO NoParam

ECHO %0 %1 %2 %3
C:\Programme\encavc\encavc -i "%1" -o "%2" -qual best -rcmode 2pass -br %3 -psy 1 -adaptdeblock -ref 2
GOTO :End

:NoParam
ECHO Syntax: %0 ^<input.avs^> ^<output.mp4^> ^<bitrate^>

:End

Matrix_Reloaded_Trailer_Ultra.logavs2mp4.bat Matrix_Reloaded_Trailer_Ultra.avs Matrix_Reloaded_Trailer_Ultra.mp4 900000
ENCAVC - Copyright (c) 2004 ATEME (http://www.ateme.com)

This software is an experimental MPEG-4 AVC / H.264 encoder. It is intended
for evaluation purpose only and redistribution is strictly PROHIBITED.

Resulting files generated by this software can be corrupted due to the
instability of the encoder. Please report back if it occurs.

Core encoder version 1.0.1.16

Input file : Matrix_Reloaded_Trailer_Ultra.avs
Output file : Matrix_Reloaded_Trailer_Ultra.mp4
Resolution : 1000x540 @ 24.00 fps
Length : 3634 Frames
Rate Control : 2pass
Target Bit Rate : 900 kb/s
Quality : Best
Init Quantiser : 24
Max Consecutive BFrames : 3
Deblocking Strength : -2 (adaptive)
Num Reference : 2
Psychovisual : 1
Cartoon mode : Off
Features : ipred ppred bpred cabac deblock hpel qpel part

-- Start processing pass 1 / 2
* 100.00% completed
* 3634 frames processed @ 4.99 fps
-- Start processing pass 2 / 2
* 03633: encoding @ 10.37 fps - bitrate 4.53 kb/s - 100.00% completed
* 3634 frames encoded @ 5.05 fps - average bitrate 900.25 kb/s

Encoding complete
Summary so far:

- stable, fairly fast for H.264 (3.2 GHz P4-HT)
- plays well in: WMP 6.4, WMP 9 (no seeking, though - just linear playback, pauseable)
{ addition: WMP 6.4 (player2.exe) crashes on exit. }
- does not play in: MPC (jumps between start/end forth and back), Nero ShowTime (black output, but timeline advances)
- 900 kbps is a bit too low for 1000x540 in a few scenes, but overall: :eek: as expected frm H.264

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

I tryed without deblocking filter, and unfortunately it doesn't help enough to make the upper clip decodable in real time.

[Selur]

@Gabriel_Bouvigne: disabling cabac might also speed things up

[Sagittaire]

@Gabriel_Bouvigne

try -clref bpred,cabac for high resolution

[LostMP4]

Originally posted by LigH
Summary so far:

- stable, fairly fast for H.264 (3.2 GHz P4-HT)
- plays well in: WMP 6.4, WMP 9 (no seeking, though - just linear playback, pauseable)
- does not play in: MPC (jumps between start/end forth and back), Nero ShowTime (black output, but timeline advances)
- 900 kbps is a bit too low for 1000x540 in a few scenes, but overall: :eek: as expected frm H.264

It should play in Showtime, maybe you haven't the latest update installed

[Sirber]

Originally posted by plonk420
what bitrate and resolution? and i guess what clip? i got 720x480 @ 800kbps playing just fine on a AXP 1800+ with the beta1 decoder 640x480. I don't think it's CPU related.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by LigH
- does not play in: MPC (jumps between start/end forth and back), Nero ShowTime (black output, but timeline advances)Same problem as me :D

[Teegedeck]

Right-click and check if it actually is the Ateme-filter which does the playback.

[Manao]

LostMP4 : your speaking of encoding ? If so, in the 200 MB, you should count the memory used by avisynth. For me ( 512 MB ), with a classic script, encavc ( ref 5, bpred, 712x438 ) uses 87 MB. If I add to the script SetMemoryMax(16), it takes only 39 MB.

[Jukke]

Originally posted by LigH
- does not play in: MPC (jumps between start/end forth and back), Nero ShowTime (black output, but timeline advances)
Beta2 encodes (3 minute clips) runs smoothly in MPC on my machine (as mentioned earlier, had to disable h264 support in ffDShow for the ateme decoder to get into action), can seek as well. Nero ShowTime locks up when trying to seek.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Right-click and check if it actually is the Ateme-filter which does the playback. It is, check page 8.

[Soulhunter]

Something about the new version...

Im no more able to open the mp4's in VDubMod via AviSynth's DirectShowSource !!!

I get this (http://img86.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img86&image=New_AtemeB2.png) here... :(

After registering the old filters, everything works !!!


Bye

[JohnV]

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
I did an encode of a 688x560/25fps clip with: -rcmode 2pass -br 600000 -clref qpel

I am unable to decode it in real time on my PIII 1.1GHz. I understand that this type of computer has not been sold since a few years, but I would have liked to be able to play it.

The thing that immediately come to my mind would be to reduce deblocking filter based on decoding speed. I understant that deblocking is done in loop on the encoder side and is a mandatory part of the standard, but perhaps some people could prefer to have a non compliant output than not beeing able to decode in real time.

Regarding ringing: it is quite different from the "usual" ASP ringing. It looks more like noise than ringing.
I'd try -clref bpred,deblock.
Also using adaptive deblocking often uses less cpu than constant.

[Jukke]

Wouldn't it be nice if the encoder could have a mode similar to the thread priority idle in Virtualdub? Would be great if the encoder could run silently in the background, without slowing down other applications running on the machine at the same time.
I guess the supposed audience of the encoder would like to do other things with their only home computer than just encode video.

[Sirber]

I think that will be handeled by Nero once the codec is in it.

[Soulhunter]

Strange, what happened here... :confused:

- Source sample (http://img86.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img86&image=Source_5_550.png)

- Ateme sample (http://img86.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img86&image=Ateme_5_550.png)
-qual best -rcmode 2pass -br 10000000 -psy 0 -maxb 1
Note: I raised the brightness 5% to make this fault more visible !!!


Bye

[thegeby]

Report
Beta 2
Celeron 2.66 512MB
Clip from NTSC film

AVS Script:
Loadplugin(MPEGDecoder.dll)
MPEGSource(lost.vob)
ConvertToYV12

Default avcenc

Encoding freezes at +/-80%. Identical result with two different clips (from same movie)

[LigH]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Right-click and check if it actually is the Ateme-filter which does the playback.
MPC uses the "Nero Video Decoder". I'd probably have to update NVE, the filter tells me (C) 2003; stupid me...
__

After updating to NVE 2.1.2.18:

MPC plays (pauseable), but hangs or crashes on stop. Hangs on seek.
WMP 6.4 tries hard to seek but hangs. Stoppable.
NST 1.5.0.37: Black window, but advances (reports "Video: AVC")

After un- and re-registering the Ateme beta 2 filter:

MPC jumps forth and back between start and end. Those were the same I had before updating NVE.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by LigH
MPC uses the "Nero Video Decoder". I'd probably have to update NVE, the filter tells me (C) 2003; stupid me...
__

After updating to NVE 2.1.2.18:

MPC plays (pauseable), but hangs or crashes on stop. Hangs on seek.
WMP 6.4 tries hard to seek but hangs. Stoppable.
NST 1.5.0.37: Black window, but advances (reports "Video: AVC")

After un- and re-registering the Ateme beta 2 filter:

MPC jumps forth and back between start and end. Those were the same I had before updating NVE.
In MPC try preferring the Ateme filter and disable raw video decoding from ffdshow if you have that enabled.

[LigH]

Originally posted by JohnV
In MPC try preferring the Ateme filter...
Yes, this worked!

MPC plays fine, seekable, pauseable, stoppable. :cool:

Let's see if we can prefer its merit permanetly using e.g. RadLight filter manager.

[superdump]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Strange, what happened here... :confused:

- Source sample (http://img86.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img86&image=Source_5_550.png)

- Ateme sample (http://img86.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img86&image=Ateme_5_550.png)
-qual best -rcmode 2pass -br 10000000 -psy 0 -maxb 1
Note: I raised the brightness 5% to make this fault more visible !!!Is the brightness level the same in your reference and output snapshots?

[superdump]

Originally posted by Jukke
Wouldn't it be nice if the encoder could have a mode similar to the thread priority idle in Virtualdub? Would be great if the encoder could run silently in the background, without slowing down other applications running on the machine at the same time.
I guess the supposed audience of the encoder would like to do other things with their only home computer than just encode video. Use ctrl+alt+delete and right-click on the encavc process to set the priority to whatever level you wish. I think you're looking for "low". :)

[superdump]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Something about the new version...

Im no more able to open the mp4's in VDubMod via AviSynth's DirectShowSource !!!

I get this (http://img86.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img86&image=New_AtemeB2.png) here... :(

After registering the old filters, everything works !!!With the old filters, for me, it would just decode the first frame and no more. With the new filters, I also get this green output. We're not sure why at the moment.

[P0l1m0rph1c]

Or use start.exe. Like:

start /IDLE encavc -i asdasd.avs -o asdasd.avs -br 123123 blah blah

[Jukke]

Originally posted by superdump
Use ctrl+alt+delete and right-click on the encavc process to set the priority to whatever level you wish. I think you're looking for "low". :) :) You're so right! Never seen that option before, I'm happy.

[Jukke]

Originally posted by P0l1m0rph1c
Or use start.exe. Like:

start /IDLE encavc -i asdasd.avs -o asdasd.avs -br 123123 blah blah Even better than Superdump's way. Great, thanks!

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by superdump
Is the brightness level the same in your reference and output snapshots?
Should be, I raised the brightness @ both samples equally !!!

Seems there is some sort of "smoke" in the Ateme encode that shouldn't be there... :confused:

Maybe this part of the frame belongs to a different frame much later or so ???


Bye

[bobololo]

Some of you ask me for futher mp4muxer documentation. Here it is :

mp4muxer.exe -i <stream> [-f <extra_params>] [[-i <stream>] [-f <extra_params>]] [-m <interleaving in ms>] -o <output.mp4>

When <stream> is a mp4 file, you can pass extra parameters to specify which track you want to use (indeed, the mp4 file can contain several audio/video tracks). The extra parameters are :

"t:audio" to use first audio track (without the double quotes)
"t:video" to use first video track (without the double quotes)

If you want a audio or video track different from the first one, you can use :

t:audio&id=<trackid>
t:video&id=<trackid>

where <trackid> is the correct track id to use (you can get the track id using mp4 tool box). Be sure to know what you're doing when using these advanced parameters.

When <stream> is aac file (adts format), there is no extra parameter available.

Please make sure your file has .mp4 or .aac extensions. Others will be ignored.

ps: a new -priority <above|below|idle|normal|high|realtime> has just been added to encavc.exe :) To be available in the next beta release.

-- bobololo.

edit: -priority option is not in available in beta 2 yet.

[Jukke]

Originally posted by bobololo
Some of you ask me for futher mp4muxer documentation. Here it is :

mp4muxer.exe -i <stream> [-f <extra_params>] [[-i <stream>] [-f <extra_params>]] [-m <interleaving in ms>] -o <output.mp4>

ps: a new -priority <above|below|idle|normal|high|realtime> has been added to encavc.exe :)Beautiful!

When we're at it, when you wrap AAC audio in an mp4-container in FAAC, you could also add some metadata (or is it atoms?) like:
faac.exe -w -q 75 --artist "Author" --title "Title" --comment "Rating" "UsualSuspects.wav" -o "audio.mp4"
Is it possible to add similar functionality to mp4muxer?

[edit] formatting

[Selur]

okay, now I'm
1st totally lost in this thread, too much discussion :)
2nd grumpy since the dsfilters don't like me
(won't work with directshowsource in avisynth; don't like ffdshow als postprocessor; only seem to work like they should in MPC, which I don't like,...)
3rd frustrated, since I just killed my second full movie encode
(pressed the wrong batchfile :( (I wrote) )

Cu Selur