x264 development

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

I never understood people's obsession with mp4 container. Is there any evidence that it will be widely supported by the industry? Next-gen DVD will most probably use a VOB like container, HDTV will use TS for streaming, Apple is already using AVC in MOV, and H.264 reference encoder doesn't even support mp4 output. Where is the wide support for mp4? Not to mention if you want to edit your mp4 (and mkv) videos, your hands are tied, there is no simple straightforward way to do that.

I agree with you.There is no wide support for .mp4 container in this moment.And I also think that future HD-DVD and BlueRay films most probably use VOB like container.

@ Dimzon,can you,please,explain in detail your idea to develop vfw encoding via API successor? I don't understand what is your idea.

@ Sirber,why do you think that AVI container is outdated,explain that,please.

[Sharktooth]

AVI and VFW do not support natively many of the AVC and even ASP features.
They're hacked in and may create problems (look at the packed bitstream option in xvid) in both SAPs and PCs.
AVI is just too old... and VFW too.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Ok,AVI is too old,but you can't say that for VFW.You didn't answer me to my question earlier(on previous page)?

[Tommy Carrot]

AVI and VFW does not support natively many of the AVC and even ASP features.
They're hacked in and may create problems (look at the packed bitstream option in xvid) in both SAPs and PCs.
AVI is just too old... and VFW too.The only feature they don't support is the out-of-order frames, in other word they intruduce a small delay when b-frames are used, which remains unnoticable thanks to the workarounds. I could live with this "problem" with xvid, so why should it bother me now?

[Revgen]

I can understand why some people want to use vfw instead of CLI. It's easier to cut and edit a video and then encode it in Virtual Dub with a dual preview screens than it is to learn how to create an AVS script to do the same thing.

Even for those who do know how to script, writing scripts like:

Trim(0,2873)+Trim(7080,0)
Trim(0,21139)+Trim(24750,0)
Trim(0,32606)+Trim(37572,0)
Trim(0,49059)+Trim(53121,0)
Trim(0,59227)+Trim(63290,0)
Trim(0,79451)+Trim(83511,0)
Trim(0,87248)+Trim(90854,0)
Trim(0,94067)+Trim(99027,0)
Trim(0,102490)+Trim(106684,0)
Trim(0,114666)+Trim(118725,0)
Trim(0,122616)+Trim(126224,0)
Trim(0,130978)+Trim(135938,0)
Trim(0,150506)+Trim(154719,0)
Trim(0,157104)+Trim(160711,0)
Trim(0,171381)+Trim(175511,0)
Trim(0,180388)+Trim(184449,0)
Trim(0,187978)+Trim(191584,0)
Trim(0,198401)+Trim(202460,0)
Trim(0,214030)+Trim(217938,0)
Trim(0,229599)

Just to cut out unwanted footage can be a hassle.

I think that more n00bs and newbies would appreciate x264 CLI if it could be integrated into more of a Virtual Dub app. MeGUI doesn't quite fit that criteria yet.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

Well,ok,but very few people know how to make AVS scripts.Most of them don't won't to bother with AVS scripts,because they want easy to use codec interface.That kind of interface is VFW,believe or not.

BTW,Sharktooth,do you have any plans to allow MPEG1/2 and AVI input in MeGUI,instead only AVS input?

[falcon2000eg]

I can understand why some people want to use vfw instead of CLI. It's easier to cut and edit a video and then encode it in Virtual Dub with a dual preview screens than it is to learn how to create an AVS script to do the same thing.


I think that more n00bs and newbies would appreciate x264 CLI if it could be integrated into more of a Virtual Dub app. MeGUI doesn't quite fit that criteria yet.
Thats why I ask for vfw in first place because I need to use Virtualdub some times.

Personaly I'm using MeGUI-CLI for 90% of my encodes, it is a great tool but i can not replace Vdub and yes avisynth is not easy for newbies.

[bond]

ah now avisynth is evil and a reason for using vfw? :D

megui includes a very easy to use interface for creating .avs scripts

you guys should simply make the step and learn something new and better, megui makes it soooo easy. you are acting like 80 year old pensionists for which only the old, known things are good unwilling to try something new

[falcon2000eg]

OK bond I quit :( I will not ask for Vfw again :confused:

[Tommy Carrot]

you guys should simply make the step and learn something new and betterThis is exactly my point: it's not always better. If you want to do additional editing on your encoding, it's almost impossible with the cli method, you'll need muxing your video many times, while with vfw interface, it's very simple. I know you are feeling frustrated that avi and vfw are still here and just cannot die, but you must understand that cli and GUIs just cannot replace them for certain tasks.

[bond]

well if you really really really need to use virtualdub you can still remux from mp4/mkv to avi with avc2avi
but of course editing with b-frames is a pita with avi/vfw

[Sagittaire]

problem with x264 build 368

with this command line
x264.exe --bframe 2 --b-rdo --ref 16 --mixed-refs --filter 0:0 --bitrate 447 --pass 1 --stats "x264_stat.log" --qcomp 0.75 --ipratio 1.10 --pbratio 1.40 --analyse "all" --weightb --me "umh" --subme 6 --trellis 2 --progress -o NUL Encodage.avs

source is avs 1280*720*25 and first pass stop always at frame 146(/2591) ... ???

I have warning "DPB size (22118400) > level limit (12582612)"

no problem with exactly the same source but with 720*400*25 resize. No warning with this resolution : seem to be level problem ... ???

[Revgen]

OK bond I quit :( I will not ask for Vfw again :confused:

What you really should be asking is for Virtual Dub to support X264 CLI or MeGUI to add more Virtual Dub-like features. Once that happens the whole VFW debate will be over.

As bond has said many times before, the .avi interface doesn't allow the H.264 codec to reach it's potential without a lot of hacks and code twisting. And sometimes that doesn't even work.

Using VFW and .AVi with X264 is kind of akin to drinking Don Perigon wine out of a paper cup instead of a contoured wine glass to accentuate it's aroma. MKV and MP4 are the wine glass containers that benefit the H.264 codecs.

BTW I'm not a wine freak. My Mother rented Sideways last night and we all had to watch. :rolleyes:

[falcon2000eg]

:goodpost:
What you really should be asking is for Virtual Dub to support X264 CLI or MeGUI to add more Virtual Dub-like features. Once that happens the whole VFW debate will be over.

But ATM I think updating x.264 VFW will be easier and faster.
I realy like MKV it is a nice glass for the wine :D

[nDman]

I come here to say about a problem in x264 VFW encoder.
i use combustion for VFX and like save output as x264 avi but combustion can't render with this codec.

and if VP6 be installed, combustion will open encoder setup dialog of VP instead x264.

and i use Magix Video pro for video editing, when i encode the movie with x264 the magix will does crash.

can you fix it?

sorry for my bad english.

[Revgen]

Okay lets get this straight.

1) You're trying to export a video editing project created using Magix Video Pro to x264vfw?

2) When you use a video effect called "combustion" in your project and attempt to convert to x264, Magix Video Pro crashes?

3) When you have the VP6 codec installed on your system, whenever you try to enter the X264vfw setup menu, you enter the VP6 codec menu instead?


If the above information is correct, then I'm going to guess that the problem lies with Magix Video Pro or your OS.

What could be happening is that the settings that you're inputing for x264 are being sent to the VP6 codec or another codec other than x264. This codec may not understand the settings and abort causing Magix Video Pro to crash.

This is only theoretical though.

[charleski]

Ok,AVI is too old,but you can't say that for VFW.Um, VfW is ANCIENT. It goes back to the old 16-bit days (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/multimed/htm/_win32_video_for_windows.asp). It's long since been time to move on.

But what I'm seeing here really is that people want to retain the filtering and editing functions of VirtualDub while encoding using x264. Have you ever considered using VDub's built-in frameserver to do that? This would be a far better method than trying to cram h.264 video into an AVI.

[Revgen]

Um, VfW is ANCIENT. It goes back to the old 16-bit days (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/multimed/htm/_win32_video_for_windows.asp). It's long since been time to move on.

But what I'm seeing here really is that people want to retain the filtering and editing functions of VirtualDub while encoding using x264. Have you ever considered using VDub's built-in frameserver to do that? This would be a far better method than trying to cram h.264 video into an AVI.

I don't believe that X264CLI can process .vdr files.

Only .avs can be used.

[squid_80]

It's easy enough to modify x264.c so the CLI accepts .vdr files just like .avi and .avs but virtualdub only seems to frameserve in RGB24 format.

[redfordxx]

Well, how about different feature: suspend to disk
for instance only at the I?? frame (can't remember the name, you know), I believe it will save lot of memory space to save.
H.264 encoding is quite slow and with forthcoming HD the hours turn into days quickly... and sometimes reboot or so is necessary

[puffpio]

pausing encodes to restart later would be nice...maybe even recover from a power out? that would be sweet

[CREXbzh]

Not all the time.. just take a look at the mencoder manpage and compare it with x264.exe...
That is just because the website of mplayerhq.hu (which puts all the docs online) has not been updated in a while (due to several issues not worth talking about here).

The man page of mencoder in CVS is always up to date, with no more than a day or two of delays between the addition of a new 264 feature and sync of mencoder.

[foxyshadis]

Are you suggesting something like writing each IDR-gop as a discrete block, journaling changes in a temp file until ready to attach another full IDR?

...why don't you just use ELDER? Tobias went through all the trouble to make it do just that. It's not just for SMP encoding. (In fact it might even support single-frame recovery, it's simple enough to write out encoder state every frame, the problem is whether it can be acceptibly performant with all that data.)

[Doom9]

Most of them don't won't to bother with AVS scripts,because they want easy to use codec interface.That kind of interface is VFW,believe or not.And how do you get your video into VirtualDub? Via AviSynth script most likely (at least that's the most efficient way.. I hear there are people still using VFAPI and filters in VDub.. well, if you like to wait twice as long then be my guest).

[redfordxx]

...why don't you just use ELDER?I learned about ELDER some time ago, but just VERY briefly. So, maybe I am wrong, but I suppose parallel encoding cannot be as efficient as normal 2pass...
(meaning the rate control and best bits alloc)

[stephanV]

I learned about ELDER some time ago, but just VERY briefly. So, maybe I am wrong, but I suppose parallel encoding cannot be as efficient as normal 2pass...
(meaning the rate control and best bits alloc)
Why not?

[redfordxx]

Why not?This question-answer implies, that I do not understand the matter thoroughly enough and I am probably wrong;-)

I thought the encoder does not go throug whole movie (mean 1st pass) and then decide the bit allocation "based on the knowledge" of the whole movie.

Anyway the original Q remains: Suspend feature for x264 (e.g. Ctrl-S in CLI) makes sense?

[stephanV]

This question-answer implies, that I do not understand the matter thoroughly enough and I am probably wrong;-)

I thought the encoder does not go throug whole movie (mean 1st pass) and then decide the bit allocation "based on the knowledge" of the whole movie.
That's true in principle, but i believe ELDER at least does some modifications on the stat files to (partly) correct for this. Of course, whats more of an objection to this is that it probably isn't so that the current 2-pass mechanism is perfect.

Anyway the original Q remains: Suspend feature for x264 (e.g. Ctrl-S in CLI) makes sense?
It could. :)

[Doom9]

MeGUI allows you to suspend x264.exe and resume encoding whenever you feel like it.

maybe even recover from a power out? that would be sweetthere is seek and then there's elder. Of course it would also be nice if x264 would brew me ice tea (don't like coffee at all), cook for me, clean, wash clothes, iron, etc, but you gotta stop somewhere. Keeping consistent states across program termination is something that can only be achieved with a lot of effort and there's hardly any software to do this. Why should a video encoder, which is nothing business critical whatsoever, have features that only the most expensive apps in the world have?

Last but not least I think this thread should get back to being all but a free-for-all wishlist and container discussion.

[redfordxx]

MeGUI allows you to suspend x264.exe and resume encoding whenever you feel like it.Wow, haven't noticed. I thought it can pause, but can't quit, reboot etc. So I probably cancel using CLI and come back to MeGui (for wholemovieencodes at least).
[EDIT] incorrect english, :) now it makes more sense...

[charleski]

I don't believe that X264CLI can process .vdr files.

Only .avs can be used.
Well that's no barrier:
Q2.8: How do I load my clip into AviSynth (video) ?
...
* vdr-files (VirtualDub's frameserver files):

AviSource("d:\filename.vdr")
(From the docs at avisynth.org)
Have you tried it?

[708145]

Well, how about different feature: suspend to disk
for instance only at the I?? frame (can't remember the name, you know), I believe it will save lot of memory space to save.
H.264 encoding is quite slow and with forthcoming HD the hours turn into days quickly... and sometimes reboot or so is necessary

please note that the next beta of ELDER will have pause/resume functionality for x264 and xvid :)

and for the bit distribution: The parallel first pass I do results in a bit identical stats file as a normal 1st pass does. Plus I will alter the second pass rate distribution to your needs. But current implemetation is very close to what a 2pass xvid does.

bis besser,
T0B1A5

[Revgen]

Well that's no barrier:
(From the docs at avisynth.org)
Have you tried it?

Yep tried it, it doesn't work. Could be the RB24 issue that squid80 talked about earlier.

[charleski]

@Revgen: Put ConvertToYV12() at the end of the avisynth script

[Revgen]

I forgot to mention that I did that too. Avisynth still gives an error when I start it.

[charleski]

Check to see if the .avs plays correctly in something like Zoom Player. If not then there's a problem in the frameserver setup (make sure the handlers are installed from auxsetup).
I just did a test and I can frameserve from VDubMpeg2 through meGUI to x264 just fine.

[Revgen]

I decided to uninstall VirtualDub completely and reinstalled it again. Frameserving now works fine.

Very strange. :confused:

[Wilbert]

Perhaps you forgot to install the frameserver (auxsetup.exe)?

[Revgen]

auxsetup.exe was installed and setup. It just wasn't working. Perhaps there was a registry glitch.

[nDman]

Okay lets get this straight.

1) You're trying to export a video editing project created using Magix Video Pro to x264vfw?

2) When you use a video effect called "combustion" in your project and attempt to convert to x264, Magix Video Pro crashes?

3) When you have the VP6 codec installed on your system, whenever you try to enter the X264vfw setup menu, you enter the VP6 codec menu instead?


If the above information is correct, then I'm going to guess that the problem lies with Magix Video Pro or your OS.

What could be happening is that the settings that you're inputing for x264 are being sent to the VP6 codec or another codec other than x264. This codec may not understand the settings and abort causing Magix Video Pro to crash.

This is only theoretical though.


may bad english :(

combustion is VFX program similar to Adobe AfterEffect, it not a video effect.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=5562397
i don't have problem in combustion with Divx or Xvid.

i downloading last version of x264 and no more crashes with Magix Video Pro.

[Revgen]

may bad english :(

combustion is VFX program similar to Adobe AfterEffect, it not a video effect.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=5562397
i don't have problem in combustion with Divx or Xvid.

i downloading last version of x264 and no more crashes with Magix Video Pro.

Cool. :cool:


Also, don't feel bad about your English. English is much easier to speak than it is to read or write. You'd be amazed at how many native English speakers have difficulty reading and writing English. English is my native language and I'm still learning how to read and write it. ;)

[charleski]

You'd be amazed at how many native English speakers have difficulty reading and writing English.Not if you spend a couple of days looking at message-boards populated by poorly-educated American teenagers! heh

[Revgen]

Not if you spend a couple of days looking at message-boards populated by poorly-educated American teenagers! heh

[OFFTOPIC]

Sadly it's true :(

And it isn't funny.

Our schools are getting worse. Politicians are cutting school funding all the time to pay for "pet" projects to satisfy their campaign donors.

[OFFTOPIC]

[Czarek Kwasny]

Hello,
I find x264 icon not very well suited for 48x48 size (it becomes blurred).
Here's fixed version (more detail for 48x48):
http://gfx.artivo.pl/x264.ico

If you find it valuable, feel free to use it. I may share PSD source on demand if needed ;).

Thanks for the good job.

[Hyper Shinchan]

I was trying to use the new level conformance button in the megui build included in the x264 full release (the one with the installer and with megui).
But when I analize them with mp4info my avc videos are always level 5.1..
What is the problem???

[Sharktooth]

The problem is x264 default level is 5.1 and MeGUI doesnt pass --level command line option to x264.exe

[Doom9]

nobody ever told me about level and allowable values...

[nDman]

hi.
i think there is bug in ffdshow in H.264 decoding.
it can't play this clip correctly:
http://www.vsofts.com/h264/avi/vssh-ccir39_d1_3000.avi :rolleyes:

[rig_veda]

Since I didn't find information about this - is x264 in the current version not supposed to be able to output mp4 files bigger then 4 gigabyte? I tried encoding huge files, but the resulting output always only plays back until around 4 gigs into the file, than all video players I tried just close/crash. Jumping via timeline to a later point also crashes the players. I tried with x264 in the v333 and v375b plus megui, different splitters and versions of ffdshow for playback with negative results.
Encodes of nero recode 2 of that file sizes play fine under the same conditions.

[akupenguin]

it can't play this clip correctly:
http://www.vsofts.com/h264/avi/vssh-ccir39_d1_3000.avi
VSSH uses packed B-frames, which are not supported by libavcodec's h264.
In other words: no, that clip is broken, but you can fix it by remuxing.