Philips dvp 642

[SeeMoreDigital]

Okay I've generated another encode, which I've called SMD Test 05 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_05.zip)!

Now when you say you get the "menu but no play!". What does this menu say/look like. Can you take a photo and upload.

If it's a small photo you could use a free service by: - http://www.imageshack.us/welcome6.php


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
EDIT: I forgot to ask. What codecs did you use to create the audio and video streams?hm if i remember it right xvid without any advanced features (also no aspect ratio set)

[speed_X]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Okay I've generated another encode, which I've called SMD Test 05 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_05.zip)!

Now when you say you get the "menu but no play!". What does this menu say/look like. Can you take a photo and upload.

If it's a small photo you could use a free service by: - http://www.imageshack.us/welcome6.php


Cheers

smd-> It means I can see the file displayed on the menu, like any other file. However, when I click "play" on the remote nothing happens! Will do my best to download 05!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks bond I thought it would have been XviD!

Well get this. I've just tried playing the following: -

mp4ui_cbrmp3.mp4
mp4ui_vbrmp3.mp4

and I can't get WMP9, MPC or ShowTime to play them. The Xcard can, but without audio!

The other encodes play but with varying degrees of difficulty... strange eh?


Cheers

[speed_X]

smd-> Bingo! Test 05 plays with video and sound. The AR looks good!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well fook-me!

I wonder if the Philips player looks for the encodes profile level. Or weather the bitrate was too high?

One way or another it's worth further investigation!

I suppose I'll have to generate some more test files now, from the same source but using larger image pixel frame sizes and bitrates!

The frame size of 'Test 05' is 576x224 which offers an AR of 2.57:1. Which is quite a bit smaller than the original 2.35:1. And the bitrate is just 316kbps.

Well, I'll go to bed a happier man tonight :D


Cheers

[speed_X]

smd, bond-> As we go along I would like to continue testing the DVP642. Bang for the money it's the best player I've purchased (4 to date: RJTech 1500, Yamada 6600, NeuNeo, DVP642).

I know it doesn't do Qpel but otherwise I think it's good player and at $69.95 USD it's 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of many of the other players.

I don't think any of the present crop of hardware players will ever play all my encodes but I'm very satisfied with the DVP642.

[bond]

speed_X, i will create another sampleset for you to test asap :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Okay, here are some more encodes for you to try (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_06_07_08.zip).

Test 06
Image pixel frame size = 720x432 / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 1:1

Test 07
Image pixel frame size = 720x432 / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 16:9 PAL

Test 08
Image pixel frame size = 720x432 / Picture Aspect Ratio = 2.35:1


Source
720x576 'anamorphic widescreen' DVD with a movie aspect ratio of 2.35:1

Encodes
Video = XviD Simple Profile L3 @ 312kbps
Audio = Lame mp3 @ 128kbps CBR


Cheers

[oryan_dunn]

Hi,
I just got this player and have read through this thread as well as the other one on the 642. I have a widescreen tv and when playing xvid or divx movies that use pixel ar to achive the correct aspect, this player squishes them vertically as if the player were hooked to a 4:3 tv. If it is hooked up to a 4:3 tv, all my movies play with the correct aspect ratio, but not on my tv. Have any of you tried the new firmware, and if yes, does it correct this? I really like this player, but it wont work for me unless it can display correctly on my tv.

Thanks,
Ryan

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi oryan_dunn, welcome to the Doom9 forum.

Are you talking about XviD encodes in .avi container?

If so, as far as I know there are only a few players with MediaTek chip-sets that can do this at the moment. Hopefully you Philips will be able to do the same.

I think I speak for bond as well as myself, when I say we hope that anamorphic signalling should be a standard function with Mpeg4 streams in an .mp4 container... But who knows with this player!

Which encodes have you tried?


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

I dont think you will see such things in an ESS based player.
The ESS chip is very very very very poor when it comes to resizing.

[speed_X]

Hi oryan_dunn!

When you say widescreen tv, do you mean 16:9?

Have you tried the tv settings within the video menu, say changing it to widescreen?

[DJ Alik]

yes that's exact the problem that I have. the philips people suggested encoding them at 720x480. That fixes the problem with a widescreen tv (only if the movie is 1.85 anamorphic) but then when you watch them on a regular tv the movie is squized horizontally.

[speed_X]

smd-> test results:

test 06 audio and video OK

test 07 audio and video OK

test 08 green screen, no audio and no video

[oryan_dunn]

Yeah, i have a 16:9 tv that I have hooked this player to. I have a feeling that the player only outputs 720x480 and assumes that you have a 4:3 tv when playing divx or any mpeg4 material. I believe that this player would scale the movie to fit those dimensions by adding black bars where needed. The problem is when it is actually a widescreen tv. The player will still output 720x480, but my tv streches that resolution to fill my tv. When it does this, widescreen divx need less black bars to make it the correct ratio. I've seen this with my HTPC that I have using the Radeon9700 and the component dongle. If i use a single monitor and enable the video overlay for my tv, it outputs 720x480. This works great for dvds that are anamorphically encoded and have black bars added as needed, like on 2.35:1 movies, but this doesn't work so well for divx players that rely on the pixels being a 1:1 ratio. Divx played when I have the video overlay turned on, are squished in the same manner that they are on this player. If i enable my tv as a secondary monitor with a resolution with 16:9 ratio, eg. 1920x1080, the divx play fine. I guess for now I'll have to stick with my HTPC for my divx and xvid files. I was really only trying this player out for a friend who is not technically inclinded and wanted a simple solution for playing these files. Unfortunatelly, i'll have to look elsewhere. Thanks for your responses though.

Ryan

PS. I just realized that I had my first and now this is my second post. I registered last year, but for some reason, never posted. Thanks for the welcome anyways.

[SeeMoreDigital]

OK everybody, we need to take stock

When it comes to playing back anamorphic encodes things can get pretty confusing. So I will generate some more encodes and post them for you guys to try!

Now that I know that the player can play file 07, some of you with 16:9 TV's may be interested to know that this is a properly cropped PAL anamorphic encode, from a movie that has an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 (ie: only the black mattes have been cropped away). All of which has been put in an .MP4 container.

What I propose doing is to upload file 07 again but this time in both an .AVI container and .MP4 container!

Hopefully all you people with 16:9 TV's can test both files to see if the 'anamorphic signalling' works properly.


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Okay, here are encodes 09 and 10 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_09_10.zip) for you all to try.

09: has been anamorphicly cropped and placed in an .MP4 container

10: has been anamorphicly cropped and placed in an .AVI container


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by speed_X
smd-> test results:

test 06 audio and video OK

test 07 audio and video OK

test 08 green screen, no audio and no video This is interesting because the only difference between 07 and 08, is that 07 was encoded using XviD's Pixel Aspect Ratio setting. And 08 was encoded using XviD's Picture Aspect Ratio setting.

So, it would seem the player can't understand XviD's Picture Aspect Ratio setting, which explains why some of my earlier encodes did not work.

We are getting somewhere :)

[oryan_dunn]

Hi,
Instead of returning the player, I decided to keep it a little bit longer to help you guys out, trying to figure out how to play anamorphic stuff on a widescreen tv. I noticed talk about PAL movies and I'll note I live in the states. I doubt that should have any bearing, but I don't know how these files differ when using pal. Anyways, I tried your files 9 and 10. 9 played ok with audio and video, but it was streched vertically instead of horizontally. I think this means the player did correctly read the anamorphic flag. The problem then is that the player streched it to fill the screen vertically. This test movie filled my 16:9 tv with very small (almost unnoticable) bars on the top and bottom, no where near the size of bars for a 2.35:1 movie on my 16:9 tv normally. I believe this is the same thing DVD's do, but when they have a 2.35:1 movie, they have to add black bars to prevent just what happened to test file 9. I also tried 10 and the player said codec not supported.

Ryan

[SeeMoreDigital]

Nice one Ryan,

Just to make you feel more wanted :D I've generated some NTSC test encodes for you to try: -

So set your CD burners to stun because here are NTSC encodes 11 and 12 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_11_12.zip).

Please note that these encodes are full sized 720x480 anamorphic (the same as the DVD source) and therefore include the mattes (ie: no cropping). The bitrate is around 600kbps which is pretty low for such a short encode... anyway if these work too tomorrow we will try something a little more complex!


Cheers

[oryan_dunn]

So set your CD burners to stun because here are NTSC encodes 11 and 12.

lol

Test file 11 played correctly with the correct AR. File 12 suffered the same fate as 10 and wouldn't play.

How difficult is it to reencode xvid or divx movies that I've downloaded from the internet so that they will play correctly on my tv? I've experimented in converting my own DVDs to xvid with ac3 sound, but I haven't worked with an xvid to begin with. Is there a way to add the anamorphic flag as well as black bars to create the correct AR?

Thanks,
Ryan

[SeeMoreDigital]

Interesting that it's the AVI's that are not working correctly.

Please give this SMD Test 12 Mk2 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_12_Mk2.zip) a try. It's been generated without a muxer.


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

Its normal that file 11 played correctly on your 16:9 tv.
To make sure the anamorphic flag is working you have to switch the player to 4:3 and look at the result.
If the black bars get bigger (the height of the movie is reduced) then the flag is working, otherwise its not.

Or maybe SeeMoreDigital can create 2 files wich are exactly the same, only with different ar settings.

btw, i can also say that setting the picture aspect ratio result in unplayable files, at least with the 2 ess based players that i tried (but with avi).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Zhnujm,

I think it's safe to say that this Philips player is the first stand-alone to support the .MP4 container... Shame there's no AAC decoding though.

Anyway, tomorrow I think it's time to try some MP4's with more than one audio stream!


Cheers

[oryan_dunn]

well file 12 played ok, but I tried Zhnujm suggestion and the file still played correctly on my screen. That means that it didn't read the anamorphic flag as it didnt' add more black bars.

[speed_X]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
This is interesting because the only difference between 07 and 08, is that 07 was encoded using XviD's Pixel Aspect Ratio setting. And 08 was encoded using XviD's Picture Aspect Ratio setting.

So, it would seem the player can't understand XviD's Picture Aspect Ratio setting, which explains why some of my earlier encodes did not work.

We are getting somewhere :)

smd-> Count me along for the ride and I will help testing as time permits. BTW, I've heard through the EYO forums that Philips is releasing a model DVP642K (220-240 Volts) in Australia and thought perhaps they have any plans for the UK...have you heard anything?

speed_X

[speed_X]

smd and bond-> test 11 and 12 results

11 audio video are OK
12- won't play (codec not supported)

[speed_X]

smd and bond-> test 12 results: audio and video OK

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by speed_X
smd and bond-> test 12 results: audio and video OK Is this Test 12 Mk2?


OK. Now that it's confirmed that the Philips DVP 642 can spin Mpeg4/MP3 encodes in the MP4 container. Lets see if it can play files with two MP3 streams!

Such as SMD Test 13 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/SMD_Test_13.zip)

Test 13 .MP4 Encode Info
Image pixel frame size = 368x240 'Anamorphic' / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 16:9 NTSC / 2No 2Ch MP3 Audio Tracks / Muxed with mp4UI

Encode: -
Video = XviD Simple Profile L3 @ 500kbps approx
Audio = Lame mp3 @ 128kbps CBR - English track
Audio = Lame mp3 @ 128kbps CBR - Spannish track

IMPORTANT NOTE:
This encodes includes the black mattes within the 368x240 frame (just like the DVD source). It is also 'anamorphic'. Hopefully the image should be displayed correctly on both a 4:3 or 16:9 TV but please remember to check your players TV output settings

[speed_X]

Hi smd and all!

You're right, that was test 12 Mk2.

Test 13 is completely perfect. The aspect ratio looks very good and the Spanish sound track is good but no English playback.

You encoded the top/bottom bars together with the image? Does it take more bit rate to do that?

[oryan_dunn]

Well test 13 played with spanish audio, but thats all that I had access too. I couldn't change to the english. Also, it was squished as before and the player didn't change the aspect when I changed the tv type, so the anamorphic flag either wasn't there or wasn't read correctly.

Ryan

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by speed_X
You encoded the top/bottom bars together with the image? Does it take more bit rate to do that? I did this because before when I cropped them out the image filled the screen from top to bottom.

A 2.35:1 image when displayed on a 16:9 TV should display approx 32% of black matte (16% above the image & 16% below the image). A 2.35:1 image when displayed on an 4:3 TV should display approx 76% of black matte (38% above the image & 38% below the image).

But in answer to your question, generating encodes with the black mattes does not add very much to the overall bitrate, as black usually compresses to zero.

That said, if you do decide to encode with the mattes, GMC will not work and Qpel will probably not work well either. Also if the edge between the image and the matte is not a clean (some are fuzzy) a lot of bits can be wasted during rendering.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
Well test 13 played with spanish audio, but thats all that I had access too. I couldn't change to the english. Also, it was squished as before and the player didn't change the aspect when I changed the tv type, so the anamorphic flag either wasn't there or wasn't read correctly.Hmm!

Strange that speed_X's setup appeared to display the anamorphic encode correctly but yours could not... I wish I could test one of these players first hand, as there are so many variables!


With regard to audio. What a shame that it's not possible to select the tracks. But at least having more than one track in the container did not crash the player... so who knows what another firmware upgrade might bring!


Cheers

[speed_X]

smd-> You just might get a chance to get your hands on a DVP642(k)!
I was at the EYO forums in Australia and I read Philips is importing the DVP642k down there. It looks just like mine and the only thing is that it's 220-240 Volts. Would you please approach Philips and ask them if they've got any plans to import a similar model into the UK since you've got a UK email?

It would be great if folks in the UK could get these!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Actually I'm wondering if the Philips DVP630 is the European equivalent....

HAS ANYBODY GO ONE OF THESE?


Cheers

[Phobos]

i skimmed through the thread cuz i dont understand crap about AR, but i catched the following conclussions.

supports mp4 container
no aac audio support :/
xcd support
AR support (bond and seemore, pls post your conclusions on that)
problems with mp3 and avi either cbr or vbr

maybe i forgot, but what about subtitles?? does it suport bifs mp4 subtitles? how about external srt files??

pls clarify/correct anything of my post

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Phobos
supports mp4 container
no aac audio support :/
xcd support
AR support (bond and seemore, pls post your conclusions on that)
problems with mp3 and avi either cbr or vbr

* Supports MP4 container - Yep!
* No AAC audio support - Yep!
* XCD support - It would appear so!
* AR support - Not 100% sure.
Seems to work for 16:9 TV's but not for 4:3 TV's. More testing required!
* Problems with mp3 - Nope, these encodes do work.
I generated some Mpeg4/mp3 muxes using AVI-mux that didn't work but that's about it. People on other forums seem to have no problems with AVI's... however, these same people don't appear to have tested MP4.


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

To make sure if AR settings do work or not you can try these files:

1:1 AVI - ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/arsettings/11.avi
16:9 AVI - ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/arsettings/169.avi
1:1 MP4 - ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/arsettings/11.mp4
16:9 MP4 - ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/arsettings/169.mp4

They are all the same except the AR setting.
If all files have the same height during playback then the AR setting is not working.
Hope the MP4 files are playable.

[CruNcher]

@speed_X
could you try one of the official .mp4 files from philips you can find them somehere on their website, if not pm me thx :)
like this CDR-Dinner_HighQuality_1300k(1)-996.mp4 for example

[SeeMoreDigital]

I had a quick look under their 'Global' web site and all I could find for the DVP642 was this... A load of PDF's: -

http://www.internetsearch.philips.com/BISSSAX/searchpr.jsp?lArticleTypeId=1&lNodeId=0&language1=&searchquery=%44%56%50%36%34%32

And when you punch in MP4 into their search engine, you don't get much success either.

I did notice from the Philips DVP642 spec sheet that MP4 file playback is not officially listed. All you get is this: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/DVP642_Spec.gif

Is this still the case on newly shipped units?

Also, has anybody removed the hat off one of these units and taken some photo's yet?


Zhnujm,

I'm hoping your 16:9 MP4 - ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/arsettings/169.mp4 encode will do the trick :D


Cheers

[CruNcher]

The last philip units that suported DivX used Ess Chips so i think this line is useing the same, really sad that they didn´t chose MediaTek. On the Picture you can see that Mpeg-4 Files are listed separetly from DivX Files thats i think a indication that the container is meant with that, but still far away from what expirienced people understand under the Term Mpeg-4 Player anyways ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by CruNcher
... On the Picture you can see that Mpeg-4 Files are listed separetly from DivX Files thats i think a indication that the container is meant with that, but still far away from what expirienced people understand under the Term Mpeg-4 Player anyways ;) I think you will find most players specs list Mpeg4 separately. Some manufacturers go into more details than others though.

Take the Elta 8883 spec for example, it says -
Video:
MPEG4: MPEG4, DivX™ ab 3.11 (4.02, 5.03) und höher, XviD
MPEG2: DVD und S-VCD (inklusive DSVCD u. XSVCD), Superbit DVD
MPEG1: VCD (inklusive DVCD u. S/XVCD)

On the Kiss DP1000 player it says: -
Full DVD/MPEG-4/DivX®/XviD/CD/MP3/Ogg Vorbis/CD-RW/DVD+/-RW compatibility JPEG Picture CD viewing Progressive Scan Video Out Time Search

On the Philips DVP762 player it says: -
Video performance
• Progressive Scan : PAL & NTSC
• Video decoding : DivX® 3.11/4.x/5.x,
MPEG-4/MPEG-2/MPEG-1
• Video format : 4:3/16:9
• Video system : PAL/NTSC
• Video DAC : 108MHz/12bit

But on the Philips DVP630/632 it says this: -
http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/DVP630_632_Spec.gif

So with any luck and if your theory holds true, us lot in Euro land already have an player that can spin MP4's...


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by CruNcher
The last philip units that suported DivX used Ess Chips so i think this line is useing the same, really sad that they didn´t chose MediaTek.

The Philips 720SA uses a Mediatek chip.
And maybe the Philips DVP762 also, but thats only a guess based on the connectors on the backside.

[oryan_dunn]

All the files that Zhnujm posted played exactly the same in my player. All played with the same ratio and with no regard to the aspect ratio setting of the player (which means it didn't read or there wasn't an anamorphic flag).

Ryan

[speed_X]

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
All the files that Zhnujm posted played exactly the same in my player. All played with the same ratio and with no regard to the aspect ratio setting of the player (which means it didn't read or there wasn't an anamorphic flag).

Ryan

Dito!

[Phobos]

i read somewhere that xvids asp isnt compliant or stuff so this player might have problems with xvid 1.0 even without qpel and gmc, is this right or it works flawless?? i would've already ordered one if it would support aac audio and subtitles :( but we are getting close :D

[bond]

for completeness, someone who also tested my samples reported the following:

ok I burned the iso to a cd and the dvd player can read the disc just fine

3ivx_cbrmp3 doesnt play at all
3ivx_cbrmp3 plays audio only
3ivx_vbrmp3 this one plays both video and audio
mp4box_aac plays video only
mp4box_ar says its playing but only 1 frame shows up and its frozen there
mp4box_cbrm video only
mp4box_vbrm video only
mp4creator_ video only
mp4ui_cbrmp doesnt play
mp4ui_vbrmp doesnt play
quicktime_a video only

it looks like the only one to play correctly was 3ivx_vbrmp3

[speed_X]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
The Philips 720SA uses a Mediatek chip.
And maybe the Philips DVP762 also, but thats only a guess based on the connectors on the backside.

From what I've read the 720SA uses a MT1389EE chip. I would love to get my hands on one.

The only problem with all the MediaTek based players is that MediaTek is taking forever to release any major firmware updates. Most of the units on the market have gotten fixes for subtitles but no real compatibility and playback updatesl; neither the big or small manufacturers.

MediaTek promised sooo much about the 1389xx chips and now they're taking forever to issue any real firmware updates. What's the use of a chip that can do so many things if support for firmware is so painfully slow? I could see some of this if MediaTek was a small company with few resources but that's not the case. I know many of the player manufacturers have endured constant questions about the firmware updates with no end in sight!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Are some of you guys thinking that these Philips MK chip-set based players will be able to spin MP4 contained encodes?


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

I dont think so.
I ordered a Yamaha 550 wich seems to be a clone of the Philips 720 without SACD and DD decoder.
But it seems it needs a few weeks to arrive.