mp4UI 1.0 RC 1 released [Archive]

SeeMoreDigital

6th June 2004, 18:37

Yes this is great news!

Mp3 and AAC audio muxing is back with MP4UI 1.0 RC1... and it works a treat.

Sadly though, AAC-HE streams are reported as being AAC-LC. But these de-mux fine too.

I've also muxed, de-muxed and re-muxed (ie: AVI - MP4 - AVI etc) an anamorphic XviD video stream 5 times... and the stream did not b0rk.

Another problem solved.

My only criticism is that the de-muxed AVI's 4CC is reported as being: DivX (when it was XviD). And the Codec Name is reported as being: DivX 4 (OpenDivX)... What's the deal with that I wonder?

I've not yet tested to see if the muxed streams are 100% QuickTime player compatible yet.

All great stuff. Cheers

bond

6th June 2004, 18:40

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
My only criticism is that the de-muxed AVI's 4CC is reported as being: DivX (when it was XviD). And the Codec Name is reported as being: DivX 4 (OpenDivX)... What's the deal with that I wonder?well, the MP4 container doesnt know something like FourCCs (which makes interoperability possible btw), therefore there will no 4cc be stored in mp4, as the stream is mpeg-4 compatible anyways (it doesnt matter what encoder was used to encode the stream)
now if you extract back to avi you have to use a 4cc again (as avi needs thats) and whats the most popular mpeg-4 4cc? -> DIVX

I've not yet tested to see if the muxed streams are 100% QuickTime player compatible yetquicktime will be able to play ALL mp4 files, which follow the mpeg-4 simple profile (no matter what muxer or encoder was used to create the stream)
thats the nice thing about mp4 -> interoperability

SeeMoreDigital

6th June 2004, 18:51

Regarding MP4 to AVI de-muxing. When you do it with GraphEdit (using 3ivX tools), the AVI stream is reported as being mp4v, this would seem a more logical option.

And with the QuickTime player. Do you remember a couple of months ago I was trying to create Mpeg4/AAC streams that the player liked. Try as I might I could not do it properly with MP4UI (I kept getting a white screen and a warning notice). Only GraphEdit, using 3ivX tools would do it properly!

But I'm well pleased

EDIT: I forgot to mention the QuickTime player must not use any of 3ivX's filters during playback.

bond

6th June 2004, 19:00

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Regarding MP4 to AVI de-muxing. When you do it with GraphEdit (using 3ivX tools), the AVI stream is reported as being mp4v, this would seem a more logical option.yep, thats because the 3ivx splitter outputs it labelled as "mp4v", making it compatible with every other filter, which supports "mp4v" as input

And with the QuickTime player. Do you remember a couple of months ago I was trying to create Mpeg4/AAC streams that the player liked. Try as I might I could not do it with MP4UI only GraphEdit, using 3ivX tools!
hm what files qt handles shouldnt depend on the used muxer (unless a muxer is buggy and creates b0rked mp4 files)
qt cant handle advanced simple profile streams, including qpel, gmc, custom quants, b-vops but also n-vops

if qt would handle mpeg-4 asp streams, it would also be possible to edit/cut/join/append all mp4 files in qt (which is only possible with simple profile streams atm)

EDIT: I forgot to mention the QuickTime player must not use any of 3ivX's filters.yep, qt uses its own inbuilt mpeg-4 decoder by default

SeeMoreDigital

6th June 2004, 19:34

Yes, the QuickTime player problem is a bit weird, especially as only simple profile Mpeg4 streams were used.

When I get a moment I'll have to generate some new MP4UI muxes and test them on my other (non 3ivX) boot drive.

I wonder why Marcus never took up my invitation to join us here on the Doom9 forum?

Cheers

bond

6th June 2004, 19:48

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I wonder why Marcus never took up my invitation to join us here on the Doom9 forum?i also pointed him here, but he didnt join afaik

in fact it was me who submitted a whole bunch of bug reports on the bug tracker on sourceforge, before the bugs got fixed
it would be easier if marcus brenner would join the discussion directly

SeeMoreDigital

6th June 2004, 19:58

Originally posted by bond
...it would be easier if marcus brenner would join the discussion directly Agreed!

I really like this tool, because it's simple... like me :D

I guess I should have been more pro-active at issuing bug reports via sourceforge.

Cheers

bond

7th June 2004, 10:58

can anyone still import packed bitstream AVIs to MP4 in mp4ui? it doesnt work here anymore (i get a "cant import frame #" error message)

maybe mp4ui already analyses the input streams and refuses to handle packed bitstreams as it knows that the output will not be compliant?

SeeMoreDigital

7th June 2004, 11:46

I've managed to get it to work with this 'video only' 34 second clip (http://www.SeeMoreDigital.net/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_Packed_MP4.zip).

Plays back pants though!

Cheers

bond

7th June 2004, 12:01

nice sample (anamorphic too) :)

can you plz upload the source avi too?

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I've managed to get it to work with this 'video only' 34 second clip (http://www.SeeMoreDigital.net/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_Packed.zip).hm, when i download from this link i only get a .html page, after this html page got downloaded and i open it, the .zip download starts

SeeMoreDigital

7th June 2004, 12:16

Originally posted by bond
can you plz upload the source avi too?Here you go (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_Packed_AVI.zip).

Originally posted by bond
hm, when i download from this link i only get a .html page, after this html page got downloaded and i open it, the .zip download starts I think this is because I put SeeMoreDigital.net in the url, instead of my IP address number.

The above link is with my IP address number. Is it more friendly, maybe there are some settings in Apache I'm supposed to tweak but don't know about... any ideas?

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

7th June 2004, 13:31

And here's a link to the same MP4 file but without packed bitstream (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_NotPacked_MP4.zip).

There's no denying this file works much better than the one with packed bitstream.

Cheers

bond

7th June 2004, 14:40

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Here you go (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_Packed_AVI.zip).yep, works, tough i couldnt figure out why this worked, but my test samples (divx5-1b, xvid-2/3b-frames) didnt

SeeMoreDigital

7th June 2004, 15:10

Originally posted by bond
yep, works, tough i couldnt figure out why this worked, but my test samples (divx5-1b, xvid-2/3b-frames) didnt Ahhhh! MPEGmediator strikes again :D

Cheers

The Link

7th June 2004, 18:37

1. How do I import aac audio in mp4 container (m4a or whatever extension you prefer)? --> I know that I can open mp4 audio as a start file but what if I want to add a second stream?
2. Is there a possibility for delay correction?

Regards,
The Link

bond

7th June 2004, 18:53

Originally posted by The Link
1. How do I import aac audio in mp4 container (m4a or whatever extension you prefer)? --> I know that I can open mp4 audio as a start file but what if I want to add a second stream?thats a current downside of mp4ui:
you can not import/export .mp4 files, but you can import raw streams (.aac or .mp3)

2. Is there a possibility for delay correction?not in mp4ui, but with the 3ivx muxer as described here (http://www.3ivx.com/support/windows/encoding/ge_shift.html)

The Link

7th June 2004, 19:02

you can not import/export .mp4 files
Is that a possible problem because I thought that the mp4 container stores some important information (adts header?) which the raw aac file cannot store?
I knew that 3ivx can handle delay correction but anyway thanks for the hint. :)
It would be nice to have a simple gui like mp4ui which would be able to handle all those basic things. There are already some nice mpeg4 tools but every single one I tested had some flaws. :( Perhaps development still needs some time...

Regards,
The Link

bond

7th June 2004, 19:13

Originally posted by The Link
Is that a possible problem because I thought that the mp4 container stores some important information (adts header?) which the raw aac file cannot store?exporting to an .aac (with adts header - adts is not used in .mp4 btw) is only a problem when using he-aac, as with he-aac there is a flag stored on the container level telling the decoder that the stream is he-aac
some decoders (coreaac, 3ivx) also handle the streams without this flag correctly, but its not a good solution if you want to be sure that _every_ decoder will recognize that the stream is he-aac

apart from that there is no problem

It would be nice to have a simple gui like mp4ui which would be able to handle all those basic things.the 3ivx guys are already working on such a gui for their tools (a _very_ powerful one ;) )

There are already some nice mpeg4 tools but every single one I tested had some flaws. :( Perhaps development still needs some time...nobody is perfect, but from my point of view the tools existing are already very nice, still you are right, it would be great if there would exist one tool, which does it all.
well all it needs is one dev starting to write such a tool (the opensource libs are existing already, mp4 is license free, so there are no legal issues to fear when hosting binaries, aso...) :)

The Link

7th June 2004, 19:28

Thx for the information! :)

SeeMoreDigital

7th June 2004, 19:44

You don't actually need to start the muxing process by importing an AAC in MP4 file first.

Try using this MP4UI Blank Template (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MP4UI_Blank_Template.zip) I made. I've found I can import Mpeg4 AVI streams or AAC streams as .AAC in any order.

Cheers

Soulhunter

7th June 2004, 21:16

Whoops, totally missed this thread !!!

No matter, I have small question before downloading it... :o

Are the known b-frame problems (or some of them) fixed yet ???

Bye

bond

7th June 2004, 21:31

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Are the known b-frame problems (or some of them) fixed yet ???hm for a longtime member you should know to use search and read the faq ;)

mp4ui has no problem with b-frames. it only has problems with packed bitstreams, in fact it also has no problems with them, but the resulting mp4 will simply not be spec compliant (as packed bitstream is a hack for avi and nowhere specified in mpeg-4 and therefore not allowed in mp4)

SeeMoreDigital

7th June 2004, 21:57

Hi Soulhunter,

Have you tried downloading my 2B-VOP .MP4 test encodes, 'with packed bitstream' (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_Packed_MP4.zip) and 'without packed bitstream' (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/XviD_2pass_2B-VOP_NotPacked_MP4.zip).

You should see quite clearly that the encodes without packed bitstream work much better.

Cheers

iradic

7th June 2004, 23:29

hi...

installed mp4ui to see how it works... and after importing xvid video and mp3 vbr audio it gives me nothing... in graphedit just file.mp4 -> 3ivxsplitter shows up and thats it...

bye

bond

8th June 2004, 09:47

hm maybe it doesnt handle the vbrmp3-in-avi hack as it doesnt handle the b-frames-in-avi hack (aka packed bitstream)

anyone had success importing a vbrmp3-in-avi in mp4ui?
edit: just tried it myself and it doesnt seem to work

so to sum it up:
mp4ui is an example which shows that you cant expect that every software will by default support AVI hacks
just because a hack works with/was written to work with the m$ avi splitter it doesnt mean that it works everywhere. the other softwares need to be especially adopted to support them too (workarounds for the workarounds so to say)
its always the same: mp4ui appears to be buggy because it doesnt support things in avi, which simply werent meant to be in avi :D

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 10:51

Originally posted by bond
...anyone had success importing a vbrmp3-in-avi in mp4ui?
edit: just tried it myself and it doesnt seem to work He, he he,

Mp3VBR in MP4... No problemo (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MP3_1pass_VBR@8%_MP4.zip)!

Cheers

bond

8th June 2004, 11:24

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Mp3VBR in MP4... No problemo (http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MP3_1pass_VBR@8%_MP4.zip)!did you mux from vbrmp3-in-avi?

if yes, can you plz upload this avi

stephanV

8th June 2004, 11:41

it doesnt seem to work with CBR-MP3 in avi either (it just keeps preparing for importing the avi audiostream)... but of course strictly speaking CBR MP3 is a hack too in AVI... :rolleyes:

and i wouldn't know what other audiostreams to test in avi that would go in MP4.

but i don't understand why it wouldnt work though... its not very difficult to read an MP3 stream from avi, no? i mean, even MS-splitter can do it. and hack or not, it is not very practical to not be able to do this, but of course one can always demux the stream first. so its not a big deal either.

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 11:50

Originally posted by bond
did you mux from vbrmp3-in-avi? Nope.

I just used a ordinary .mp3 VBR stream. I've had no problems with mp3pro VBR streams either!

Cheers

bond

8th June 2004, 11:51

Originally posted by stephanV
it doesnt seem to work with CBR-MP3 in avi either (it just keeps preparing for importing the avi audiostream)... but of course strictly speaking CBR MP3 is a hack too in AVI... :rolleyes:nope, cbrmp3 in avi is not a hack, as avi is able to handle constant bitrate audio streams itself

and i wouldn't know what other audiostreams to test in avi that would go in MP4. alexnoes aac-in-avi hack :D

but i don't understand why it wouldnt work though... its not very difficult to read an MP3 stream from avi, no? i mean, even MS-splitter can do it.well, there is a big difference on how cbr audio streams (cbrmp3) and vbr audio streams (vbrmp3 or aac) are stored in avi
cbrmp3 is stored in avi, as an audio stream should be stored in avi, but vbrmp3 is stored in it like a video stream (as avi can carry variable bitrate video streams, but not vbr audio streams), exploiting a flaw in the m$ avi splitter, making this hack possible (a flaw which might not exist in other avi splitters/parsers, like the one in mp4ui)
now for example if m$ would fix their avi splitter, vbrmp3-in-avi wouldnt work anymore

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I just used a ordinary .mp3 VBR stream.well, of course this works! of course mp4 can carry vbr audio streams without the need for hacks (vbrmp3 or aac)

you are mixing things up: what we were talking about was importing a vbrmp3-in-avi stream to MP4 in mp4ui, not about if vbrmp3 is possible in mp4 or not (of course it is) ;)

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 12:18

Ok I see now,

After reading iradic's post I assumed he was importing the streams separately!

I too can confirm that MP4UI can't cope with the importing of an Mpeg4/mp3 in AVI file. All I get is this message: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MP4UI_importing_message.gif.

So it looks like any Mpeg4/mp3 streams will have to be de-muxed first! A bit of a ball ache but not the end of the world :D

Cheers

stephanV

8th June 2004, 12:22

Originally posted by bond
nope, cbrmp3 in avi is not a hack, as avi is able to handle constant bitrate audio streams itself

no thats wrong... virtualdub for example stores cbr mp3 in avi with nBlockAlign = 1, thus interleaving can and will very often result in chunks with incomplete frames (mp3 decompressor does its own frame assembly so this doesn't really matter). but if you start cutting in an avi with cbr mp3, you will often hear a chirp at the beginning of the second part. this is because you have actually cutted a MP3-frame in half.

but, according to Avery Lee, even if all chunks contained only whole MP3 frames it still wouldn't work entirely correctly because "to decode an MP3 frame properly you need to decode two frames before it to prime the IMDCT overlap and subband synthesis filters, plus up to 511 data payload bytes prior to that to preload the decoder." (whatever that means ;) )

anyway, enough of that :o

i can't get avi with CBR MP3 to work either, that was all i'm saying. (maybe someone else would like to try?)
i would try AAC :p (but i dont have such files, AAC audio i mean)

(come to think about it, reading VBR MP3 might actually be easier because each frame is in its own chunk.... well nevermind, im no expert on that)

bond

8th June 2004, 12:26

ok you convinced me: cbrmp3-in-avi is also a hack ;)

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 12:30

Originally posted by bond
ok you convinced me: cbrmp3-in-avi is also a hack ;) "Crickey"!

Are there any current codecs (we all use here on the forum) that are not hacked into AVI?

Cheers

stephanV

8th June 2004, 13:06

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
"Crickey"!

owno, what have I done??? :mad:

note you will only notice that CBR MP3 is a "hack" (calling CBR MP3 a real hack is an insult to people like nando and alexnoe AFAIAC, anyone could have done it)if you start cutting it. unlike with VBR MP3 a "non-bugged" avi-splitter would still spit out CBR MP3 correctly. and anyway, hacks are not bad, hacks are practical :p

but back to MP4UI now...

hmm... if im right about the CBR MP3 and the avi-plitter then there IS a bug, i think. and also, why would it import avi-audiostreams if it can't possibly import any to begin with... its not that muxing wav-files will work.

bond

8th June 2004, 13:37

Originally posted by stephanV
hmm... if im right about the CBR MP3 and the avi-plitter then there IS a bug, i think. and also, why would it import avi-audiostreams if it can't possibly import any to begin with...hm it can import a/v streams from .mpg, non malformed mpeg-4 video streams in avi and raw aac/mp3/mp2 correctly already i think

anyone else having a cbrmp3-in-avi, which he can test import in mp4ui?
maybe its time to file a bug report on sf ;)

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 14:12

I tried importing an Mpeg4/AAC-LC in AVI, this does not work either!

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 15:59

Here's a weird thing though!

I took an 6Ch .ac3 stream and changed the file extension to .aac and mp4UI muxed it!

I hasten to add it I could not make it play though, but the fact that mp4UI did not crash or freeze must say something.

I've tried changing the file extensions of other streams and using extensions other than .aac too and mp4UI muxed those as well.

You never know we might get .ac3 in MP4 yet!

Cheers

stephanV

8th June 2004, 16:29

i tried this too, but when i demuxed the stream again after saving the file, the audio seemed to be destroyed

this looks more like a bug than anything else. :)

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 16:39

Originally posted by stephanV
i tried this too, but when i demuxed the stream again after saving the file, the audio seemed to be destroyed Yea the audio streams are definitely b0rked. Even before you try de-muxing them again.

I'm just surprised you can get them in there!

Sufficed to say, this latest build is the best one so far and quite good fun!

And I wonder why the creator has not changed the version number on his web site (http://mp4ui.sourceforge.net/) yet?

Soulhunter

8th June 2004, 17:14

Originally posted by bond
hm for a longtime member you should know to use search and read the faq ;)

mp4ui has no problem with b-frames. it only has problems with packed bitstreams...
Sorry, I dont read the container forum very often... :o

But, wasn't there a decoding problem related to multiple b-frames ???

Cant remember... :(

But if you say everything works well, I will trust you !!!

Bye

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 17:29

Originally posted by Soulhunter
...But, wasn't there a decoding problem related to multiple b-frames ???

...But if you say everything works well, I will trust you !!! As far as I know there has never been a problem with multiple B-VOPS in MP4. My understanding is that people don't realize that it's the packed bitstream that causes the problems in MP4.

Cheers

stephanV

8th June 2004, 17:43

@soulhunter:
maybe this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77455&highlight=xvid) is what you mean.

but the program is still to buggy for me... 3ivx splitter doesnt seem to work too well with it (it doesn't create output pins) and VLC-player plays the files incorrectly, it throws out agrey screen for the first second and plays without (mp3) sound...

it might be just me though, but if i would switch to MP4, i wouldn't use this tool yet... but 3ivx muxer.

its been fun testing it though :)

kilg0r3

8th June 2004, 18:00

Input Files
------------
Video: XVID Avi AS@L5 1,75GB
Audio: Stereo HE-AAC (Nero)

Procedure
----------
1. Open Nero-generated MP4-file in Mp4Ui
2. Import avi

!!!The output file is not readabale by any application (VLC, mp4box, mp4creator, mp4ui (!))

Error Messages:
---------------

Exception MPEG-4 Internal
Couldn't make ISMA compliant (Length is 420)

Exception MPEG-4 Internal
Couldn't optimize (no such property - moov.mvhd.modificationTime)

Exception MPEG-4 Internal
Couldn't open file d:\321.mp4 (no such property - moov.mvhd.modificationTime)

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 18:18

One of the problems is not giving mp4UI enough time to finish the muxing/optimizing process. But this does not seem to be the problem here.

Try using the 'MP4UI Blank Template' I made and posted earlier. With this you can import Mpeg4 AVI streams or AAC streams as .AAC in any order.... but remember to make another copy of it before you start!

Cheers

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I've been able to use mp4UI to mux video streams much shorter than the audio streams and vice-versa!

bond

8th June 2004, 19:34

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I took an 6Ch .ac3 stream and changed the file extension to .aac and mp4UI muxed it!
I hasten to add it I could not make it play though, but the fact that mp4UI did not crash or freeze must say something.
You never know we might get .ac3 in MP4 yet!hm, this will never work correctly, as the stream is marked as AAC, so every MP4 splitter will pass the AC3 stream to an AAC decoder (which will not handle ac3 of course)

Soulhunter

8th June 2004, 19:37

Originally posted by stephanV
@soulhunter:
maybe this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77455&highlight=xvid) is what you mean.
Duh, I think you are right stephan !!!

Maybe its time to defrag my brain (or simply sleep more than 4 hours per day)... :D

THX n' Bye

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 19:38

Originally posted by bond
hm, this will never work correctly, as the stream is marked as AAC, so every MP4 splitter will pass the AC3 stream to an AAC decoder (which will not handle ac3 of course) Obviously I knew that. I just wanted to see what would happen. Previous version of mp4UI just crashed or said 'stream not recognised' (or something like that) but this RC version seems far more robust.

Cheers

kilg0r3

8th June 2004, 19:43

@ SeeMoreDigital

It works .... :confused: / :) Although, Mp4Ui, for some reason was not able to optimize the file but said "Cannot overwrite existing file."

Now SeeMore, what is this template? You did not just create it with Mp4Ui by pushing ?open? and then enter a new filename, did you? So, tell me or I will ... you. :angry: :eek: :D

stephanV

8th June 2004, 19:51

@SMD:

i wouldn't call this behavior robust, i would call it buggy! MP4ui should give an error for an incorrect/incompatible stream type when you try to import it!

judging the contents of a file by its extension is at least very dangerous. if i rename an avi with a .mp3 extension it would still open as avi in good players. so the opposite should be true too, a wrong file with the right extension should not be allowed to be opened.

it should be possible to differentiate between an ac3-file and an aac-file without looking at the extension, no?

SeeMoreDigital

8th June 2004, 20:17

Hi kilg0r3,

I made the template by inputting and muxing some short audio and video streams into/with the application. I then played the file to make sure it was okay. And then I opened the file with mp4UI and deleted all the 'streams' and 'other' stuff.

I use this method to create all my muxes.

Hi stephanV,

I guess when you put it like that you're right. Although it would be nice to think that this tool might one day be able to mux 'non compliant streams'.

Maybe Marcus could add a 'compliant' and non-compliant' check box setting?

kilg0r3

9th June 2004, 07:48

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hi kilg0r3,

I made the template by inputting and muxing some short audio and video streams into/with the application. Which application do you refer to here? Mp4Ui or Nero or ..?

And a question, that hinting and interleaving, is it relevant useful for local file playback?

SeeMoreDigital

9th June 2004, 09:26

Originally posted by kilg0r3
Which application do you refer to here? Mp4Ui or Nero or ..?mp4UI

Originally posted by kilg0r3
And a question, that hinting and interleaving, is it relevant useful for local file playback? I assume they are for streaming.

A couple of months ago, I tried checking and un-checking the settings, when I was attempting to make some QuikTime player compatible .mp4's, but nothing seemed to help. Maybe things are different with RC1.

Cheers

kilg0r3

9th June 2004, 09:38

Just a short note,

it seems to me that the 'make ISMA complaint after improting a stream' option is making problems.

Now I just leave it off until all streams are imported, and then check it again before closing mp4ui. Of course i don't know if it has any effect when used in this way. But I no longer get any error messages, and, the streams are working. Which makes me happy :)

is there any way to check if a stream is isma compliant or not?

SeeMoreDigital

9th June 2004, 09:45

Good point!

As far as I'm aware ISMA referes to Internet Streaming Media Alliance. So it's yet another 'streaming' setting.

With this in mind I can't see that it's that important, unless you're thinking of streaming that 1.75GB encode of yours!

Cheers

kilg0r3

9th June 2004, 10:01

Hm, i seem to remeber a sentence like 'ISMA is important because most players only handle ISMA compliant content.' I was hoping to get some kind of guarantee that the files I encode know will be playable also on the new family of KISS players.

Sometimes we should just pick up the phone :D

SeeMoreDigital

9th June 2004, 10:11

You may well be correct, hopefully bond can shed some clearer light on the subject!

All I can say is, over the months I've tried all types of different softwares and tools to create MP4's. And baring using multiple B-VOP's, or even 1B-VOP in XviD's case, they work fine in hardware!

Hopefully the new Sigma chip based stand-alone players will do the same.

Cheers

bond

9th June 2004, 10:35

hm i dont really know the details about what things the isma compliance influences, but yes its mainly for streaming

maybe the most important thing is, that it adds a BIFS track to the MP4, which makes it possible to read the file, also for players able to decode mpeg-4 systems content (bifs). that way the isma includes the possibility to support interactive streaming menus (much more powerful than the known simple click-and-play movie trailer menus known from apples streaming trailers for example)
the bifs track in mp4ui is very simple and only tells the player the size of the picture aso, more powerful bifs tracks can enable interactivity (like if created with my mp4menu) or a bifs track can also be simply an "animation track", like the sample i linked to in my faq

Trybe

14th June 2004, 17:09

Hi guys, sorry for my late reply and thanks for pointing me the thread. Usually I don't stroll through all the forums every day in order to just find something about my small mp4UI tool. Just point me the forum in such cases...

I know there's still so mutch to do, but the problem is as always a lack of time - especially now, as I just finished study and started working.

My plans for the "feature" are:
- wizard with batch processing (...takes more work/time)
- subtitle import and export
- use of id3v2 for import/export of mp3/aac
- split, join and trim for both tracks and whole MP4 file

Coders are welcome :-)

Markus

bond

14th June 2004, 17:27

lo Trybe/Markus :)

great to have you here! there is lots of discussion going on about your tool on doom9 :)

basically for me the most important (really important!!!) issue of mp4ui atm is the avi import!
its really important as mp4ui will NOT create spec compliant MP4 files when important maybe 90% of the existing mpeg4-in-avi streams in it!

why? because of the packed bitstream hack!
the two most popular mpeg-4 codecs are divx5 and xvid, which both encode to avi! both by default also enable b-frames (which are a must when encoding normally) but which also means that packed bitstream is used!
this again means that as good as all existing mpeg4-in-avi files will use packed bitstream, which is NOT allowed in mp4, meaning mp4ui does NOT create spec compliant mp4 files from all these avi sources!

its really a big issue!!!

now there is already opensource (GPL) code existing which allows the correct importing of video streams from AVI to MP4 in the gpac project (the mp4box tool handles the correct import of ALL avi files, removing ALL avi hacks existing not allowed in mp4 (packed bitstream is only one of them, another one is that the VOL is repeated on each keyframe in avi, which is NOT allowed in MP4 too!!!))
mp4creator does not remove ANY of these existing avi hacks!!!

also as bill may from mpeg4ip shows no will at all to update their avi import code to produce spec compliant files i can only hope that you will totally drop using it for importing from avi and change to use the avi import code from gpac!
its the ONLY way to produce spec compliant mp4 files from all avi sources!

sorry to say this but until this happens it can not be recommended to any newbie to use mp4ui for creating mp4 files from avi sources! as the chance is more than great that the output will not be compliant to the mpeg-4 standard! :(

plz take this seriously! its a very important and big issue!

SeeMoreDigital

14th June 2004, 17:50

Hey great, welcome to the fourum Markus :D

Cheers

neo75903

14th June 2004, 18:10

totally agree. I tried MP4UI before and those files do not play very well (depends on your encoding settings) in mp4 players.
I personally use Quyicktime as my refernce player, as my motto is "if Quicktime plays it, it plays everywhere" :)

I know QT does not support full mp4 features yet as AS profiles. But at least i have some kind of compatibility and a file i can play in almost all other mp4 players, like real, mpc, ...

Trybe

14th June 2004, 19:34

OK, I will have a look how AVI is imported in GPAC. I hope I can simply add those mods, because I don't want to use the whole GPAC library only because of the AVI import.

And I think it's not allowed to release binaries of GPAC code, isn't it? Actually there's already some MPEG-4 System support in mp4UI, but not in the release version due to the above thing :-(

Trybe

14th June 2004, 19:35

maybe I can already present you a binary for testing tomorrow - let's see...

bond

14th June 2004, 19:46

Originally posted by Trybe
OK, I will have a look how AVI is imported in GPAC. I hope I can simply add those mods, because I don't want to use the whole GPAC library only because of the AVI import.great! its also important that you have a look not only at the packed bitstream "unpacking" part, but also other stuff, like the VOL removing, as there are several issues with avi importing causing problems with the mpeg-4 compliance!

maybe you can also solve the audio-in-avi importing problems, i reported here (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=970236&group_id=99262&atid=623648), together with this (but this is surely not as important as the video importing)

And I think it's not allowed to release binaries of GPAC code, isn't it? Actually there's already some MPEG-4 System support in mp4UI, but not in the release version due to the above thinggpac is gnu public license, so you can use it without a problem

you are not allowed to release binaries regarding mpeg-4 systems enc/decoding as mpeg-4 systems (iso 14996-1) is not license free
but the mp4 container itself (iso 14996-14) is license free! like MP4 file creation is license free (including the whole avi import stuff of course) which means you can release binaries for free (as you do already)!

SeeMoreDigital

14th June 2004, 20:08

Putting Mpeg4 in .mp4 spec compliance issues to one side for a moment.

Would there be any possibilities (sometime in the future) of mp4UI being able to mux streams, not usually associated with the .mp4 container?

iTunes has managed to mux a lossy audio format into the container. But why stop here, why not include AC3, wav, DTS etc!

Of course there would need to be some kind of check box and message, warning people that the file they are about to create is not MP4 spec compliant, but it would certainly silence the doubters who currently think the MP4 container isn't flexible :D

Cheers

pogo stick

14th June 2004, 21:48

Hello, Markus! :)
Originally posted by Trybe
My plans for the "feature" are:
...
- split, join and trim for both tracks and whole MP4 file
....
Would be GREAT! This feature is the most wishful for me!
I also think that using GPAC's code will improve mp4UI.
And are you planing to do something with HE-AAC importing?
GPAC's MP4Box can merge video.mp4 and he-aac.mp4 right.
Would be great to have it in mp4UI!

SeeMoreDigital

14th June 2004, 22:58

Originally posted by pogo stick
...And are you planing to do something with HE-AAC importing?
GPAC's MP4Box can merge video.mp4 and he-aac.mp4 right.
Would be great to have it in mp4UI! Regarding AAC-HE streams. What might be handy would be to allow the importing of secondary/multiple AAC LC and HE streams while still being in the .mp4 container. Thus maintaining the AAC-HE flagging signal.

Would this be possible?

Cheers

bond

14th June 2004, 23:26

guys, hold your breath! dont ask for too much, we want markus to come back ;)

stephanV

15th June 2004, 22:25

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Putting Mpeg4 in .mp4 spec compliance issues to one side for a moment.

Would there be any possibilities (sometime in the future) of mp4UI being able to mux streams, not usually associated with the .mp4 container?

No no, don't go that way. if you don't care about spec compliance you might as well use AVI :p. anyway, matroska would be a much better option for this.

I'd like to have a good MP4-tool first, i couldn't care less about private streams in MP4.

bond

15th June 2004, 22:43

Originally posted by stephanV
if you don't care about spec compliance you might as well use AVIplacing not defined streams in mp4 is like placing not defined streams in avi: not defined :p ;)
still placing private/not defined streams in mp4 doesnt break the compliance with the mpeg-4 standard! in fact the standard explicitely gives the possibility to place private streams in mp4 with a privately chosen id (something comparable to fourccs in avi, which are also privately chosen)
therefore the only difference, regarding this issue (!), between placing any stream in matroska and placing any stream in mp4 is that for mp4 these "ids" are not defined in the specs (they are only defined for mpeg streams (asp, avc, aac, mp3, mp2...))

still i also dont think that private streams should be placed in mp4 (with the exception of vobsubs, as they will be supported on standalones), as it hurts interoperability
matroska should be the way to go when combining "whatever streams existing" together!

SeeMoreDigital

15th June 2004, 23:15

So you guys don't like that idea then?

I suppose the important thing is to have mp4UI create fully spec compliant encodes first, before confusing the issue... other wise we'll just create another AVI type debacle.

So I guess the most important issue on the agenda is with regard to packed bitstream (B-VOP's) in AVI. Followed by AAC-HE flagging.

Would this be correct?

Cheers

Trybe

16th June 2004, 17:51

OK, I had a look how packed bitstream are handled in GPAC code, but I still don't understand the code and how it works :-(

For now this seems too complex for me as I'm not that much into this topic and don't wanna spend hours of work in this. Of course it would be easy to just take the whole GPAC AVI import function, but I don't want to mix both libraries - and because I simply like MPEG4IP :-) "Force" Bill or anybody else to incorporate those mods into MPEG4IP...

As for the VOL removing I made some interesting experiences: when removing/discarding VOL headers, some decoders - in my case NeroDigital - don't play those files proper anymore. I exported the track as AVI and the 3ivX decoder seemed to work.

But why removing the VOLs? See what I found in the specs:

2. Combined Configuration / Elementary Streams

The elementary stream data associated with a single layer may be wrapped in configuration information defined in
accordance with the syntax below. A visual bitstream may contain at most one instance of each of
VisualObjectSequence(), VisualObject() and VideoObjectLayer(), with the exception of repetition of the Visual
Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object Header and the Video Object Layer Header as described below. The
Visual Object Sequence Header must be identical for all visual streams input simultaneously to a decoder. The
Visual Object Headers for each layer of a multilayer object must be identical.

The Visual Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object Header and the Video Object Layer Header may be
repeated in a single visual bitstream. Repeating these headers enables random access into the visual bitstream
and recovery of these headers when the original headers are corrupted by errors. This header repetition is used
only when visual_object_type in the Visual Object Header indicates that visual object type is video. (i.e.
visual_object_type==”video ID”) All of the data elements in the Visual Object Sequence Header, the Visual Object
Header and the Video Object Layer Header repeated in a visual bitstream shall have the same value as in the
original headers, except that first_half_vbv_occupancy and latter_half_vbv_occupancy may be changed to specify
the VBV occupancy just before the removal of the first VOP following the repeated Video Object Layer Header.

I uploaded a build where you can test this: mp4UI_TestBuild.rar (http://mp4ui.sourceforge.net/mp4UI_TestBuild.rar)

Changes:
- some logging (access over advanced popup menu)
- mpeg/avi import: skip button is only shown if there's a track to skip
- all avi audio tracks are now imported

@bond: The question is what encoding/decoding in MPEG-4 Systems is.
For example: Is the transformation of XMT-A to BIFS already encoding or just representing the information binary instead of textual. I'm not sure about this, that's why I let it disabled so far in mp4UI. Btw: the above build includes it - but it's not very much tested. You should be able to import some JPEGs/PNGs and to edit OS/Scene...

SeeMoreDigital

16th June 2004, 18:04

Hi Markus,

I 've just tried to install your test build with WinXP Pro, but get this: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/mp4UI_error_warning.gif

EDIT: Sorry sussed it now. We just need to swap over the .exe files in the mp4UI Program Files folder ;)

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

16th June 2004, 18:35

Ok,

I just imported an 'jpeg' image file into the MP4 container but... where does it go... nothing appears in any of the mp4UI menu branches?

Cheers

bond

16th June 2004, 18:39

Originally posted by Trybe
[B]OK, I had a look how packed bitstream are handled in GPAC code, but I still don't understand the code and how it workshm, thats bad :(

"Force" Bill or anybody else to incorporate those mods into MPEG4IP...no chance, i already tried it, he will not do it or any other coding on mpeg4ip
he is working for cisco on another project and only does bug fixing anymore and adding some addons to the code made by other people

As for the VOL removing I made some interesting experiences: when removing/discarding VOL headers, some decoders - in my case NeroDigital - don't play those files proper anymore. I exported the track as AVI and the 3ivX decoder seemed to work.than there must be some other bug in your code
currently both the 3ivx and mp4box muxer remove the VOL and i never had problems regarding this (i tested all existing playback filters including nero)

But why removing the VOLs? See what I found in the specs:because its not spec compliant, as stated by the devs of 3ivx and the mp4box already, and even bill may here (http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1058312&forum_id=59136)
btw mp4creator now also removes the vol in the recent cvs (is not included in dext's latest compile tough)

I uploaded a build where you can test this: mp4UI_TestBuild.rar (http://mp4ui.sourceforge.net/mp4UI_TestBuild.rar)great i will test it asap :)

Changes:
- some logging (access over advanced popup menu)
- mpeg/avi import: skip button is only shown if there's a track to skip
- all avi audio tracks are now importeddoes this now include mp4box avi import code or mp4creator one (if mp4creator, the one which remove the vol already?)?

@bond: The question is what encoding/decoding in MPEG-4 Systems is.
For example: Is the transformation of XMT-A to BIFS already encoding or just representing the information binary instead of textual. I'm not sure about this, that's why I let it disabled so far in mp4UI. Btw: the above build includes it - but it's not very much tested.hm good question about the bifs encoding...
you really should ask jeanlf from the gpac project about this, he surely knows more about it

You should be able to import some JPEGs/PNGs and to edit OS/Scene...nice :)

stephanV

16th June 2004, 20:41

Originally posted by Trybe

Changes:
- some logging (access over advanced popup menu)
- mpeg/avi import: skip button is only shown if there's a track to skip
- all avi audio tracks are now imported

what does this exactly mean? i still cannot import mp3 (CBR or VBR) from avi... :(

bond

16th June 2004, 20:45

Originally posted by stephanV
what does this exactly mean? i still cannot import mp3 (CBR or VBR) from avi...yep, no change here too :(
i still always get a "busy/locked time out" message :(

also the jpg/png import doesnt seem to work, the picture doesnt seem to get added to the mp4 :(

edit: the scene editing is a nice feature, but always if i try to edit an advanced scene, like the one used in the kangaroo sample (http://www.comelec.enst.fr/osmo4/mp4/kangaroo.mp4), the text editor will get opened and than i get a similar failure message: "c:\windows\temp\mp4ui_5 file not found, make sure you have the right path" and no decoded scene gets displayed
if i go for "advanced -> dump -> scene" no text gets displayed too

edit2: the scene decoding only seems to work with basic scenes as created by mp4ui itself. but for example after i made a small change (removed the "scale 1 1" line) i get an error message "couldnt reimport scene (invalid trackid)"

btw how will you treat mp4 files with more than one bifs stream? the creation of those is already possible with mp4box

SeeMoreDigital

16th June 2004, 20:55

Originally posted by bond
yep, no change here too :(
i still always get a "busy/locked time out" message :(

also the jpg/png import doesnt seem to work, the picture doesnt seem to get added to the mp4 :( MP3 in AVI does not work for me either.

I've found that jpg/png file importing does go into the container (as the file size increases), but mp4UI can't detect/register it. And as a result it can't be extracted either!

Cheers

Trybe

17th June 2004, 13:53

I switched to the latest MPEG4IP mods - so it's also easier to be in sync.

VOL and any other data (e.g. user date) is now removed in the ES. Just VOPs are taken.

M4Vs should now also be imported if they have variable frame rate - but I didn't test it so far.

I also fixed a bug in the MP3 import function - VBR MP3s are still not imported properly. I will take a look there another time as with the Systems support...

mp4UI_TestBuild.rar (http://www.markus-brenner.com/mp4ui/mp4UI_TestBuild.rar)

bond

17th June 2004, 14:25

Originally posted by Trybe
VOL and any other data (e.g. user date) is now removed in the ES. Just VOPs are taken.nice :)

M4Vs should now also be imported if they have variable frame rate - but I didn't test it so far.hm if i do so i get a "no VOL header found in the mpeg-4 stream" as i also got before when trying to import other raw mpeg-4 video streams (in mp4creator)

I also fixed a bug in the MP3 import function - VBR MP3s are still not imported properly. how exactly does vbr mp3 importing not work correctly?
i tried importing raw vbrmp3 and cbrmp3, seemed to work

what did not work was vbrmp3/cbrmp3 importing from inside avi. the stream was added to the mp4, but when i played the stream in dshow with the 3ivx mp4 splitter, the windows mp3 decoder connected to it correctly, but during playback no sound came (with both cbrmp3 and vbrmp3)

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2004, 14:59

With this revided build, I can now input Mpeg4/MP3 CBR streams in AVI and Mpeg4/MP3 VBR streams in AVI. But, like bond... I can't hear anything!

RAW .mp3 importing still works perfectly for both stream types.

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2004, 15:41

Trybe,

With regard to importing audio streams in general.

Is there any possibility of allowing the importing of AAC streams while in the .mp4 or .m4a container.

Is there some technical reason why, you can open mp4UI with an aac in the .mp4 container but can't add further streams the same way?

Cheers

kilg0r3

17th June 2004, 18:31

bond in another thread i just found out that mp4box by default places the audio stream behind the video when storing the streams in MP4: to avoid too much seeking ... Does Mp4Ui do the same way? If so, I now understand why the files generated by mp4ui play with regular stops about every second or so. But why would this be limited to directshow based playback? As it does not happen when I use VLC.

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2004, 19:30

Originally posted by kilg0r3
...in another thread Does Mp4Ui do the same way? If so, I now understand why the files generated by mp4ui play with regular stops about every second or so. But why would this be limited to directshow based playback? As it does not happen when I use VLC. Hi kilg0r3,

I can't understand why your encodes are doing this in your directshow based players. They work fine on my old 800MHz P3 even, anamorphic 720x576.

Cheers

The Link

17th June 2004, 19:35

i just found out that mp4box by default places the audio stream behind the video when storing the streams in MP4: to avoid too much seeking ...
Even if this should be the case, seeking is lightening fast with mp4. At least much faster than with avi so I don't really care about this.

Regards,
The Link

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2004, 19:39

If there's going to be any lag, the audio should be behind the video anyway as this is what happens in nature.

Sound travels slower than light!

Cheers

Trybe

17th June 2004, 21:22

in which order audio or video tracks are shouldn't matter. isma allows anyway only one video and at most one audio track, at least that's what i'm thinking.

Is there any possibility of allowing the importing of AAC streams while in the .mp4 or .m4a container.
Is there some technical reason why, you can open mp4UI with an aac in the .mp4 container but can't add further streams the same way?

can you explain this a bit more? what exactly doesn't work?

what did not work was vbrmp3/cbrmp3 importing from inside avi. the stream was added to the mp4, but when i played the stream in dshow with the 3ivx mp4 splitter, the windows mp3 decoder connected to it correctly, but during playback no sound came (with both cbrmp3 and vbrmp3)

did you test importing mp3 out of avi with mp4creator and gpac (where avi mp3 is based on mpeg4ip)? all the mp4UI import functions are based on mp4creator, so it should work the same...

Trybe

17th June 2004, 21:25

i just found out that mp4box by default places the audio stream behind the video when storing the streams in MP4: to avoid too much seeking

that's nonsense, isn't it. usually you optimize/interleave MP4 files, so there's no big seeking anyway.

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2004, 22:10

Originally posted by Trybe
can you explain this a bit more? what exactly doesn't work? Sure,

At the present time when you launch mp4UI and click on the 'New/Open' button, you get the option of importing an, MP4 File (*.mp4).

This could say, be either: -
an Audio/Video .mp4 or,
an Audio only AAC .mp4 or,
an Video only Mpeg4 .mp4

However, once one of the above has been selected you can't say 'Import' further AAC in .mp4 streams (or AAC in .m4a streams), only raw .aac streams!

You would make a lot of people very happy if you could allow this.

I hope that makes sense,

Cheers

Trybe

17th June 2004, 22:33

ic, you mean a .mp4 import function. i can try to add this as well as such an export function.

SeeMoreDigital

17th June 2004, 22:59

Originally posted by Trybe
ic, you mean a .mp4 import function. i can try to add this as well as such an export function. Cool :D

Will it look something like this: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/mp4UI_GUI_proposal.gif

bond

19th June 2004, 10:36

Originally posted by Trybe
ic, you mean a .mp4 import function. i can try to add this as well as such an export function. would be great, but not only for aac audio, as smd wrote, but also for video aso... :)

Originally posted by Trybe
that's nonsense, isn't it. usually you optimize/interleave MP4 files, so there's no big seeking anyway.yes, but mp4box is highly configurable so by default it doesnt interleave, unless you use the "-inter" switch!

about mp4ui (mp4creator) what interleaving time does it use?

Originally posted by Trybe
did you test importing mp3 out of avi with mp4creator and gpac (where avi mp3 is based on mpeg4ip)? all the mp4UI import functions are based on mp4creator, so it should work the same...i wrote about importing mp3 (both vbr/cbr) stored inside mp4. the audio track gets added, but when i play it with the 3ivx filter set in directshow the audio isnt hearable (this doesnt happen when i mux the same stream with the 3ivx muxer or mp4box)
can anyone reproduce this with the latest mp4ui?

stephanV

19th June 2004, 11:33

personally, i cant play any of my files created with MP4ui with the 3ivx splitter; the pins connect, but 3ivx splitter doesnt give me any output pins (but maybe its just me, i have a sneeking suspicion :rolleyes: ). they do play with VLC though, although i have to recheck if there is any audio...

SeeMoreDigital

19th June 2004, 11:51

Originally posted by bond
would be great, but not only for aac audio, as smd wrote, but also for video aso... :) Oh yea... I must admit I had become transfixed with the prospect of AAC-HE flagging information being preserved and forgot about video streams....

Originally posted by bond
i wrote about importing mp3 (both vbr/cbr) stored inside mp4. the audio track gets added, but when i play it with the 3ivx filter set in directshow the audio isnt hearable (this doesnt happen when i mux the same stream with the 3ivx muxer or mp4box)
can anyone reproduce this with the latest mp4ui? I thought the main problem was with importing, mp3 CBR or VBR streams in AVI... I have not tried, mp3 CBR or VBR streams in MP4

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

7th July 2004, 11:26

Does anybody have anything new to report?

Cheers

Trybe

7th July 2004, 14:14

I do: sorry guys, I have to change the continent for three/four weeks tomorrow and so I have no more time adding/fixing requests, but I'll release the version I uploaded for testing two weeks ago today. You have to wait till I'm back :-(

SeeMoreDigital

7th July 2004, 14:29

Are you off to anywhere nice?

bond

7th July 2004, 18:18

does importing audio streams from cbrmp3, vbrmp3 and aac IN avi now?

SeeMoreDigital

9th July 2004, 18:33

Originally posted by bond
does importing audio streams from cbrmp3, vbrmp3 and aac IN avi now? It's still not fixed in the latest RC2 - Posted 06 July 04 - But I did not think it would be :(

Anyway it might be time to change the thread title, unless we are having separate threads for each release?

Did we ever talk to Markus about exporting and importing subs (and chapters if possible)?

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

9th July 2004, 22:25

I remember some time ago asking why when you export an Mpeg4 video stream, mp4UI always lists its 4CC as being DivX.... urgh!

Can it be made, so that the exported files 4CC is the same as when it was imported?

I mean, it's not like mp4UI does not know what the original stream is/was. As it's listed in the advanced info: -

http://img46.exs.cx/img46/9697/SMD_mp4UI_Adv_info.gif

Cheers

stephanV

9th July 2004, 22:37

but thats not the fourcc... thats a tag in the bitstream, no?

better solution would be to just to give it "mp4v" (i believe 3ivx does this too)

SeeMoreDigital

10th July 2004, 09:21

Originally posted by stephanV
but thats not the fourcc... thats a tag in the bitstream, no? The important thing is that mp4UI knows what the input stream type is (and it can do it with 3ivx, DivX and XviD)

And as long as it knows, it should therefor be possible to assign/allocate the correct 4CC upon extract, yes!

If however, this proves to be too complicated a task then, I'm with you, mp4v would be preferable over DivX.

Cheers

bond

10th July 2004, 13:17

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
It's still not fixed in the latest RC2 - Posted 06 July 04 - But I did not think it would behm ok :(

Anyway it might be time to change the thread title, unless we are having separate threads for each release?hm there are not that big changes i think for a new thread and splitting isnt really possible as the rc2 discussion is mixed into this thread
well i leave it as is till the next version comes out :)

Did we ever talk to Markus about exporting and importing subs (and chapters if possible)?i made a feature request for this on sf, still i think markus is busy
also i dont really like the idea of using vobsubs in .mp4 as
1) they are much bigger than text subs and i dont like to waste space :D
2) the mpeg-4 standard defines its own official subtitle format and i preferably would use this

Originally posted by stephanV
but thats not the fourcc... thats a tag in the bitstream, no?exactly, thats the bitstream description placed in the user data in the bitstream

better solution would be to just to give it "mp4v" (i believe 3ivx does this too)

If however, this proves to be too complicated a task then, I'm with you, mp4v would be preferable over DivX.hm it would be a solution, but i dont really get why the "divx" fourcc is so bad. its already widely supported and decoders supporting the divx fourcc should also be able to handle as good as all streams placed in .mp4 so there shouldnt be "compatiblity issues" or so

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
The important thing is that mp4UI knows what the input stream type is (and it can do it with 3ivx, DivX and XviD)
And as long as it knows, it should therefor be possible to assign/allocate the correct 4CC upon extract, yes!hm not every bitstream indicates the used encoder in the user data, for example encodes with apples, sorensons and divx4 dont show this. so with them this procedure would not be possible

SeeMoreDigital

10th July 2004, 14:06

Originally posted by bond
hm it would be a solution, but i dont really get why the "divx" fourcc is so bad. its already widely supported and decoders supporting the divx fourcc should also be able to handle as good as all streams placed in .mp4 so there shouldnt be "compatiblity issues" or so But it's not that good either. As you've already found out, when you've tried to play 3WP GMC XviD or Nero encodes with DivX's DSdecoder. Imagine de-muxing one of these streams from out of the MP4 container and it not playing correctly.

We, more seasoned users would experiment by changing the 4CC code but others might think that the stream is b0rked!

Originally posted by bond
hm not every bitstream indicates the used encoder in the user data, for example encodes with apples, sorensons and divx4 dont show this. so with them this procedure would not be possible Neither is Recode2's NDIG but surly these codes can be added?

Anything, that can help with ease of use has got to be good in the long term!

Cheers

bond

11th July 2004, 12:28

about interleaving in mp4ui:
according to this (https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1094435&forum_id=59136) it seems that mp4creator from mpeg4ip uses 1 second for interleaving (3ivx and mp4box use 500 milliseconds), as mp4ui is based on it i assume it uses the same setting
the thread i linked to above also includes some explanations about how to change the interleaving setting in the code of mp4creator, maybe it would be nice to get an option to change it in mp4ui if its easily doable

btw the optimize function will not change the interleaving used in existing files

Originally posted by kilg0r3
bond in another thread Does Mp4Ui do the same way? If so, I now understand why the files generated by mp4ui play with regular stops about every second or so. But why would this be limited to directshow based playback? As it does not happen when I use VLC.

bond

28th July 2004, 16:49

i noticed that mp4ui does NOT create the mandatory ctts atom, which is needed for b-frames in .mp4, when importing (not packed) streams with b-frames from .avi to .mp4
its not a problem when you decode your files in dshow, as dshow doesnt need the ctts values (like some other codec interfaces maybe too), but still its mandatory to have this atom

basically thats a problem of mpeg4ip's mp4creator, which shows the same issue as mp4ui (as mp4ui is based on mp4creator). i already contacted bill may about it and i hope he will look into it
with mp4creator the ctts is already created when importing raw mpeg-4 video streams with b-frames, but not when the stream is placed in .avi

the videolan and ffmpeg muxers show the same problem

3ivx and mp4box work (as always) correctly :)

note that i am not talking about packed bitstream here!

SeeMoreDigital

21st August 2004, 10:54

Trybe!

Are you back with us yet... Did you get me a prezzie?

Cheers

Trybe

21st August 2004, 12:47

Not yet that long, but yeah - I'm back.

What's up?

You can be almost sure that my answer on your next question will be "later - still very busy"... :-)

StoneRoses

24th August 2004, 07:41

I try using this tool to create small mp4 file for playback on MPEG-4 capable mobile phone. (In my case, SonyEricsson K700i) Mobile phone video is the newest field I just start experiment.

I encode the video to avi using latest XviD (simple profile) @ VBR~96kbps (144x128 12.5fps) and using nero to crate mono AAC-LC (VBR ~32kbps) and mux them together to create mp4 file for mobile phone.

some of mp4 files create with mp4UI are not playable on mobile phone and Quicktime and some files play stutteringly at the beginning in quicktime (notice missing some frames at the beginning). But the files create with mp4box (from the same xvid avi and mp4 aac files) play fine without any issue. I also remux these mp4 files (using Quicktime) into .3gp for some other phone that support only 3gp extension.

The best thing using this lengthy procedure is the quality, xvid video is by far better than any other codec targeted at mobile phone video. (e.g. mpegable, pvauthor, nokia multimedia convertor)