Doom9 linux distribution?

[cypher_soundz]

I was thinking, It would be pretty cool if we put together a linux distribution with everything that we need to encode / playback etc(just the basics).
I'm looking in to it at the mo'
I'm not too linux literate but im getting there.
What do you guys think?
take a look at a few pages
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=make+your+own+linux+distribution&btnG=Search
Regards
cyph

[shevegen]

A very good idea.

I know there are vast Linux distributions specific for a topic (All Knoppix/Debian offsprings, then Linux in a box stuff which looks a bit like playstation console and similar, mini linux distributions, firewall linux dists and and and).

[pyropir]

I'm not very linux-literate either so I can't help very much, but I think this is a great idea. It would also help to attract more people to the linux section of the doom9 forum. Maybe the easiest way would be to make a remastered knoppix, taking advantage of Knoppix's great hardware detection and ease of making hd installation. There's a guide on how to remaster knoppix here:

http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/KnoppixRemasteringHowto

pir

[cypher_soundz]

Very good! It's nice to see others who have the same view!
Here is a morphix how to, to:p http://www.tectonic.co.za/default.php?id=297
Regards
cyph
p.s In about a week i will be trying to make a "home made " distribution , any help is warmly welcomed!

Forgot link :o

[madluther]

A good place to start would be Linux from Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org). I've been running various versions of this 'distro' for 2 years now and just love it. Even if you decide on a different approach, there's a lot of good info on how a distro goes together and how to build the critical bits, ie the toolchain, glibc etc.

Mad.

[cypher_soundz]

Great! thanks madluther i've heard of this , but not really looked at it. I will read up all i can!:cool:
Regards
cyph

[thoralf]

This is a very good idea ... It would probably be a good idea to make this distro as user-friendly as possible. A feature like stream selection for mplayer comes to my mind - no more fiddling around with with PIDs and SIDs ...

with kind regards,
Thoralf.

[avih]

dyne:bolic (http://dynebolic.org/) has mplayer/mencoder and many streamming/editing stuff for audio/video.

it's a bit strange though, kinda 'dark' ;) good distro though (live cd)

here's it's contents (more or less):
http://dyne.org/~jaromil/dynebolic-man/html/

[cypher_soundz]

pretty good link : http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/os-lfs/?ca=dgr-lnxw01BuildLinux
i havn't had too much time recently but im gonig to start learning the ins and outs again .
Regards
cyph

[Joe Fenton]

Yep. Very good idea. Here's another link that might be helpful - how to make your own SUSE-based distro.

http://www.room17.com/hacks/suse.shtml

[shevegen]

A good idea.

Let's make a list which tools should be included, and their approximate size, oK?
That list should include programs like MPlayer for sure (you can play videos, you can encode videos), and several others.

Also, small software that helps in managing your dvds, rips etc... but this is another point.

More ideas?

PS: I think its better to base it on debian, remastering seems easier with this. BUT this is my opinion, its for 100% nothing that matters alot (what matters is that it is a) usefulness, for the given tasks i.e. video related stuff
and
b) bug-free aka dont-annoy-the-user-too-much-and-introduce-new-hassles )

[Elias]

Now this was a pwnage idea. Would be awesome. Make a Linux distro that plays every audio/video container/codec in the world right out of the box. Totally badass!

[Joe Fenton]

I prefer xine over mplayer. It has DVD with navigation playing, plays (S)VCDs, as well as all sorts of video formats. It's also been more stable for me. I've only had xine crash on me once (while setting multi-media keys on my keyboard), while mplayer crashes on me left and right.

Given that, make sure you have BOTH on any distro because some people prefer one over the other. If you don't have both, you'll piss off half the folks out there. :D

When ripping a DVD to an xvid mkv, I use dvd::rip. This is in most repositories as perl-Video-DVDRip. It's really nice for making matroska and OGM rips of DVDs. When just shrinking a DVD, nothing in linux yet beats DVDShrink in WINE. I'd love to see something in that area some time.

I prefer xmms for playing audio files. Some folks prefer RythmBox because it's like iTunes. Better have both again.

[ac-chan123]

Why will every body make here own Linux Distro? There are allready some Video Distros, like MoviX.

http://distrowatch.com/

[cypher_soundz]

@ac-chan123 there are some out there , like avih mentioned. but with a custom build and from the people here of doom9, we make sure it have everything we need, not just basics and also friendly enough for windows users to try :) , also movix is only about playing movies, not encoding them.
Regards
cyph

[ac-chan123]

Then extend it. It's more easy then build a own distro.

[cypher_soundz]

if its easier then its a good idea :) .
Regards
cyph

[shevegen]

I think extending Movix is probably better at the current state. - Easier, and less time needs to be invested.

Plus Movix might be able to benefit from extending a doom9-like Linux Distribution as a synergical side effect (wow, cool word.. hehehehe).

On a simple CD (iso) fits a lot of information. The man pages and some other stuff could be stripped,
and a wiki could be used on the CD to offer good quality help, like simple FAQs "How do i convert this to that".

[cypher_soundz]

great idea shevegen, movix can allready handle playback so we can concentrate on other parts :)
Regards
cyph

[sjakke]

How's the distro coming along?

[shevegen]

I have no idea, but I am working on my own one finally from scratch.

The basic idea behind my one is different though and very much unsuited for many users, I am just personally tired of solutions seen with the "leading distributions" out there, and much more admire the solutions and potential development power presented in smaller distributions such as heretix, gobolinux, minislax, zen linux and crux linux ( mostly the philosophy behind the latter two) and invarious others, including solutions of problems presented in different programming languages.

This will take a long time as I most definitely have way too much to learn, but hopefully a better understanding will help me to push the "excels-at-multimedia-distro".
Meanwhile of course other people continue, and hopefully more of you guys find some a little time to work on more tools in that area. There are several nice ones, and there could be much more nice ones too ... Maybe some using other GUI tools, i event dont mind more .net/mono tools - of course just my opinion. :>

[Neo Neko]

Extending distros such as geexbox or movix might not be such a good idea. They are highly specialised. And overcoming the specialization might just be harder than starting from a generic scratch. Likewise A debian etc base is not always ideal either. Debian and Redhat often do "distro" specific modifications. Which means that it is not always as simple as downloading someones source, compile, and run. For instance on my CENTOS RHEL4 based boxes I can't just download/compile/install a kernel from kernel.org. I have to use the Redhat moddified sources for best results. And they are generally not "up to date". A Debian base etc is ok if all you want to do is a live CD from Debian etc packages. But if you want to do more and you want to do bleeding edge then something like Gentoo or Slackware especially is much more prefferable. Gentoo by nature is pretty good when it comes to bleeding edge. And Slackware because it does most things the default/standard way makes it easier to download/compile/install.

Second. Try to keep from including software packages with redundant/duplicate functionality. Pick the software that is deemed best for the job and work on that. Don't tie yourself up supporting every choice under the sun. If you go with a good generic base then the end user can easily download/compile/install other packages they just have to have that you didn't include. That or they could fork a bit like Knoppix/Gnoppix.

I think Gstreamer, Mplayer, FFMPEG, VLC would be a good base. They share alot of the same libraries while offering different functionality. Then add in NLE/LE software perhaps cinnerela. A good capture software. And really work on the hardware detection/support.

[Episode]

Just build the whole distro from scratch, it might even be easier :D

[Neo Neko]

Just build the whole distro from scratch, it might even be easier :D

Well there is nothing wrong with starting from a good base. Just make sure it will not hold you back.

[Inventive Software]

Don't forget GCC, this is kinda important if you want to update certain things, like XviD and mplayer etc.

Anybody prefer KDE or GNOME? Personally, I can't decide, as they seem to be very similar.

[Neo Neko]

enlightemnent ;)

[Episode]

I don't think that distribution for playback and encoding needs entire desktop enviroment. KDE and GNOME are so bloated with features that you will never use with encoding/decoding distribution, so there is no point on using them since all they do is look nice and consume all your resources for eyecandy and useless features. So enlightenment or some other light-weighted window manager (window maker?) would be much better.

[ac-chan123]

I vote for IceWM. It's small and easy to configure.

[GraDy]

I hate to break the mood here guys, but building (not to mention maintaining) a Linux distro is quite a bit of work. First you've got to decide what packages to include, then you have to compile them (but first you'll have to find the right options), then write a installer, work out what type of automatic hardware detection to use etc. Not to mention beta-testing, setting up repositories and writing documentation.
Once you release it you'll have to fix bugs and then start working on the next release.
Imo, it would be better if we wrote more guides (the FAQ is great, but it would be nice to cover DVB, HDTV etc, and maybe write more in-depth guides for mencoder or the like).

[ahlt]

So how is the project going guys?

I was given a link to this thread through my post (http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17212) over at htpcnews.com
You see am also trying to accomplish something familiar with what you people have been discussed here. I want to create a Linux/GNU distribution for HTPC use.
The project is called TheaterLinux, and it is based on the well known distribution Debian.

The project status is currently set to planning, and contributors are always welcome.
View the project site at sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/theaterlinux/) for more information.

[oldcpu]

To provide some ideas as to what other Linux "multi-media" specialized distributions have done (to help give one idea's for one's own distribution), check out the live CDs associated with:

Dynebolic Linux
http://dynebolic.org/

Garbure Linux (various live CDs optimised on different stages - BUT about 1year old)
http://garbure.org/

Mediain Linux
http://www.mediainlinux.org/

[kurt476]

if you were to put one togethter could you do me a favor? i need cx23880 driver inported from windows driver, the specs like cross bar and anything els is needed.

[nickrout]

If you want a good multimedia/video distribution use gentoo.

[shevegen]

Gentoo isnt a Distribution specifically aimed at Multimedia.

Your statement would apply to other distributions as well, since the way I currently do it is using a ruby script to install source files - however things like apt-get, pacman and god-knows-what-else is a general purpose installer / package manager. They are suited to let you, as user, install whatever you want to. (Ignore possible bugs that may appear every now and then, just look at the core idea behind them...)

emerge vim
apt-get install vim
pacman -S ... vim?
(yeah i didnt really use pacman but i heard its good due to speed, which the python emerge sometimes lacked.. )

Here though its only aimed at competing with other MULTIMEDIA projects, not with big and general purpose expert linux distributions like Gentoo.

[shevegen]

"but building (not to mention maintaining) a Linux distro is quite a bit of work."

True, the first time LFS is cumbersome and takes long. I am trying to write a script to automate the process for me, to help building it quicker. After that, building is only an automated process. If a package fails, I can traceback it and investigate. Thats no longer taking a lot of time.
However I agree that maintaining a project like a distribution takes A LOT OF time. I know of some projects that really lost all the momentum... I think this modular knoppix is one example. Or Bonsai Linux. And many more.... So the need for this to solve is, I believe, by having enough people help out.

"First you've got to decide what packages to include"

That is easy once you decided which size you want to aim at. I would say one CD. Then you simply use all the more useful linux apps like mplex, ffmpeg, mplayer, transcode,Project X and so on. Some Audio projects too probably. Thats about it. Really, this is very simple if you think about it.

"then you have to compile them (but first you'll have to find the right options)"
Other people solved this. Guess why the source code is used. :)

"then write a installer"

This probably may take some time for a GUI, but there already exist very nice Installer, and I think with glade builder or other bla you can make this easier as well. I think Slackware still uses their ncurses installer, and Slackware is quite popular (same for debian). Some other projects use GTK/Gnome and I believe this is a problem which even a hobby developer can solve. There are many guides out there.

"work out what type of automatic hardware detection to use"
That was also solved by some of the distributions, here you can really borrow the ideas, and the applications which help you with it.
I also think that this is a problem which happens MOSTLY ONLY for beta. The rest will be individual problems which can be traced back.

"setting up repositories"
Space isnt an issue, I suppose. Projects like BerlinOS, sourceforge and many others help out.

"writing documentation."

That may be cumbersome. But you know what? This would be a perfect way to start approaching it all, since its a distribution which focusses on multimedia issues. And doom9.org is IMHO by far the best place for feedback/information/help. So we at least would have an army of knowledgable people :)


"Once you release it you'll have to fix bugs and then start working on the next release."
I not so much see the problem in there. If its a bug with a project like mplayer (lets assume this now), then the proper way to deal with this bug is by reporting to the mplayer devs.
Only if its a bug with the distribution itself, should it be filed to the team. Really, I dont think the bugs will be so much of an issue here. And it may help all the open source projects to improve their quality, since this could attract new users.

I more think the main problem is dedicated devs. Most that want their own Distribution go via LFS and their own goals. Thats good btw, it keep everything evolving.

Since I think time is a problem, everything that would help automate the process etc would be nice.

I still think that projects like Slax / the linux live scripts / .mo files can make projects like this much easier, but I also still think that a project like a Multimedia Linux Distribution needs to have some developers that can work on it (we all know that sometimes people lose motivation, or dont have time... so a project may halt.)

Ok ok I think I said what is obvious hmm but maybe it may seem helpful. Or maybe it can trigger more action here in this thread

[nickrout]

Gentoo isnt a Distribution specifically aimed at Multimedia.

Your statement would apply to other distributions as well,

No, but in my experience it does it well. I find with other distos I quickly get tired of the compilation options chosen by the packagers, the lack of certain "features" like mp3, libdvdcss, win32codecs etc for "legal" reasons. I can usually play any media I damn well like in gentoo, and get pissed at other flavours when I can't do so.

I know you can comile your own on other distros, but i find that the portage system is an elegant and efficient way to have a compiled distro and easy package management.

Here though its only aimed at competing with other MULTIMEDIA projects, not with big and general purpose expert linux distributions like Gentoo.

Gentoo is only as big as you make it. You could look at leveraging the portage build system for a multimedia distro - you could even forsake some end user flexibilty by compiling a distro via portage with every multimedia feature turned on, and then distributing the binaries so people don't have to spend time compiling. Possibly easier to manage and customise than any other build system.

I'm keen to keep watching and contributing to this thread.

Cheers.

[MarkP]

I know the Linux purists won't like this
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103550

The above post got me thinking, the poster said the only reason he was still using Windoze was because of video encoding and the lack of / non existence of comparable tools in Linux.

So why not for the Doom9 distro have WINE installed and pre configured with all our favourite freeware / GPL tools VDubMod, Avisynth etc already there ready to run plus you could have some of the native linux apps from the link at the bottom.
More info on WINE
http://www.winehq.com/

also a live cd version could be possible (although it would need to be researched whether wine could run from a cd and there is also speed issues would be slower) so you would not need anything installed it would run purely from the CD

just an idea to put in the hat so to speak

Also found this list of Linux Video & Audio Apps
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?s=23

[Elias]

The above post got me thinking, the poster said the only reason he was still using Windoze was because of video encoding and the lack of / non existence of comparable tools in Linux.That's also why I still use Windows. Let's face it: as good as Linux is, it's inferior when it comes to this aspect.

[mic64]

Well

don´t get me wrong. There are really great apps in Linux for encoding stuff.
mencoder, transcode (dvdrip) etc. are doing a great job.
But if you want to tweak the best out of the source there is nothing like avisynth.
Maybe in the near future there will be something equivalent in Linux, but there is nothing yet.
I was using a vmware with windows in linux till now. But with the newest wine those 4-5 apps that I need for encoding are running fine without vmware.
I´m still using mencoder for normal DVDs and DVB-S captures.

mic64

[MarkP]

@mic64

wasn't criticising you at all, was agreeing with you if anything

Your post just got me thinking that was all and if a doom9 distro did get off the ground I think having WINE ready to run any Windoze apps where a native linux one wasn't available would be a good idea

After all why does everyone come here? there "love" of all things video and if linux can't give them what they want they ain't gonna use it simple as that.

You are obviously a Linux geek :) what are your thought on Doom9ix? as i have just named it

[damrod]

GeexBox???

it's based on mplayer for playing...so mencode can be add ???

[oldcpu]

To provide some ideas as to what other Linux "multi-media" specialized distributions have done (to help give one idea's for one's own distribution), check out the live CDs associated with:

Mediain Linux
http://www.mediainlinux.org/Mediain Linux have just recently updated their multi-media livecd package. They also have a link on their page to a URL providing help to anyone who wants to create their own custom "Mediain Linux" multi-media CD:
http://www.mediainlinux.org/index.php/mediainlinux/documentation/tutorials/mediainlinux_3_remastering

[shevegen]

I guess it would be easier to (help) contribute to this existing one (Mediainlinux) and modify it for a doom9 like distribution than to pursue a Linux from Scratch project that takes a long time to finish bug free and feature complete.
The above poster already pointed at it

http://www.mediainlinux.org/

[vertical98]

As a Re-encoding newbie...been using DVD shrink until I switched to DVD-RB and cce v2.50. I was wondering if there was good encoders like TMPEGenc or CCE available for *NIX OSes. I was fooling around and built a 3 cluster beowoulf for MP3 encoding and thought a MPEG-2 cluster would be a great idea. Last time I googled it (been a year or more) *Nix MPEG-2 encoders where not that easy to find nor as good as their Win32 counterparts. I'm not sure running it under wine would solve the problem as my cluster only runs X on the Master and not the 2 slaves.

I'd love to help with the distro...esp Alpha and beta testing. I'm not a Linux guru by any leap of the imagination, but I can normally figure out problems through google and trial and error. Big time Debian Fan if that matters.

Vertical

[damrod]

doom9 distrib...live-cd or complete install?

for info www.geexbox.org
i use it on my mini-pc...manage remote control...and mplayer read all the formats
more you can customize it, it's based upon debian...and around 5Mo to download ;-)

[shevegen]

Why "or"?
It could easily offer both. But if in doubt, LiveCD is definitely more important than hd install.

[shevegen]

And by the way, I dont think a stand alone like
GeeXboX
should compete with the idea behind a "doom9" Distribution, which, IMHO, should rather focus on a general suite of useful apps for both audio and video (but higher focus on video)

GeeXboX describes itself:
"So, GeeXboX is a full operating system, running under Linux and based on the excellent MPlayer."

While MPlayer is great, a distro should be flexible, not focussed and built around on just one tool.

[MarkP]

This topic has been going for a year and a half now has anyone actually made any progress?

Well I have been working on re mastering a current Distro to suit my (and others i guess) needs, 2 things inspired me i guess, this post and another about getting vdub, Avisynth etc running in Wine.

So the comnbination of both posts got me thinking would be nice to have an OS out of the box so to speak that will have the "majority" of software that we need to sustain our hobby.

To include all the Native Linux apps needed all Open Source, and with Wine the ability to run any of our favourite M$haft apps that have no native Linux equivilent. to have the Win apps already installed ready to run (license permitting of course) and an easy way to upgrade when a new version come out

So far I think I have the Linux end sorted out but having a bit of a nightmare setting up Wine with a few apps anyway, CCE, Vdub and some others all run fine, one of my favoured apps for .avi > DVD is DIKO and cannot get that .exe to run

Anyway enough of me, I have knocked together a website to report my progress, click HERE (http://promarkmedia.co.uk/videolinux/) if anyone wants to contribute either contact me here or register on the my Website Forum, you feedback / help will be most welcome

Happy New Year to all

[damrod]

ok i was thinking doom distrib will be a livecd/mediaplayer and not a full distrib for audio/video things

does someone look at gentoo distrib : the app install is good

for the apps :
-mplayer
-audacity
-mencoder

i don't remember the others sorry ;-)

do we need to make others frontend for real encoding for exemple?


i suggest enlightment for graphic manager ;-)
it's better than kde or gnome...:-)

[ac-chan123]

WM:
-IceWM
-WMII

File Manager:
-mc

Audio:
-sox
-audacity
for more tools see: http://loll.sourceforge.net/linux/links/Audio-Video/index.html , http://linux-sound.org/

Video:
-Mplayer
-Xine
-VLC
-transcode
-gstreamer
-avisynth 3.x ?
-dali(scriptlanguage for video. something like avisynth)
-cinepaint
-veejay(effects)
-avidemux(a virtualdub clone)
mjpegtools
for more tools see: http://loll.sourceforge.net/linux/links/Audio-Video/index.html , http://loll.sourceforge.net/linux/links/Audio-Video/Video/index.html , http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/ , http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net/ , http://wave.prohosting.com/espsw/

Images/graphics:
-gimp
-gqview(linux alternate for ACDSee)
for more toolssee: http://loll.sourceforge.net/linux/links/Graphics_/index.html