Movie fictions: hardest to swallow

[dragongodz]

"Those flashes you saw are just special FX, they are not part of the time travelling mechanism."
YOU LIE,ITS ALL REAL. :D
please give me some credit, of course its fx but what i was trying to show was that movies are a visual medium and as such not every fact is said. some(most ?) ideas are displayed and left for people to try and understand.

but to settle this so we can move on, yes it is actually a mistake. Bob Gale said in a clip(think it was making of) on the dvd that they based the time travel off H.G. Wells "The Time Machine" and used its rules. that is you can travel in time but not space(distance). he even went so far as to say he had seen other movies violate that rule. violate ? obviously he has been in both a science and science fiction bubble.
Isaac Asimov even said he had to keep updating his Lucky Starr books because science kept proving old theories(which he used in these old books written to encourage science in young readers) wrong.

"why was Ash sleeping like all the others when they were woken up by the computer, since he was a droid?"
conservation of power supply ? just putting forward a possible reason before you jump all over that aswell. ;)

[Limey]

Ash was really awake all the time, just a laying there dreaming electric dreams, it was just a cunning plan to fool the humans into thinking he was human, see? Almost worked until he started squirting 2% out of his head, dead give away.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Limey
to fool the humans into thinking he was humanOK, I get it. But he also ate. What happened with the food afterwards?

[Limey]

Hmmm, had to think about that one, but the answers so obvious can't believe I missed it. Ash needed 'food'to supply his internal fusion reactor, the reactor broke down the food into constituate atoms and converted them into heat energy, simple really, all the best droids wouldn't be seen without the very latest reactor you know.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Limey
all the best droids wouldn't be seen without the very latest reactor you know.So T3 powered by mere batteries would not qualify him on the "best droids" category I guess. :)

[Soulhunter]

Hmm, the Terminator is made of steel... Ash is made of something like synthetic flesh, he also has some sort of blood! So my conclusion... The Terminator works more the "mechanical" way, but Ash works in a "biological" way... So, he is a synthetic human!

But I have a question to T3... How did the T-X see where to drive, when it controlled the police cars in the pursuit? Satellites maybe? One more question... When the T1000 and the T-X where fully fluid, where does its energy come from?


Bye

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Ash worked much more a "biological" way...According to Bishop, from Alien II (aka Aliens), it was a very unstable model, discontinued for the same reason. Bishop was a whole new story, rebuilt from scratch 57 years later.

Anyway, by comparing the Terminator and Alien series, you can see that the droids built by the machines are quite better than those built by humans! :)
How did the T-X see where to drive, when it controlled the police cars in the pursuit?Based on the 3D images they've made from mars, I can think of how to do this if you have line of sight. But I'm not sure if TX had line of sight throughout all the pursuit. I don't think so. I'd have to watch that scene again.
When the T1000 and the T-X where fully fluid, where does its energy come fromSolar maybe? But the'd need batteries to save some for the night... :confused: Liquid batteries doesn't sound like something that might be built... Or does it?

[MemeX]

great thread, on my way home I though of an explaination for this:

Originally posted by Kedirekin
Where did all the extra mass go? There are tons of movies with transformations like this. I thought League of Extraordinary Gentlemen got it right..

Lets say if this person was able to transform his body or change his appearance or what ever, lets say he can, under those means of ability he could change the mass of his body and size despite the size and mass of his "human" shape..for example he transforms into a single bat, the extra mass that's not needed could just transform into air, or dust or uranium or what ever. When he transforms back he would just take the atoms of the air around him, or the dust, add an electron, proton and neutron here and there and transform back into his "noraml" human shape. There ya go! If he can transform into a different shape, he will need to be able to rearange the struktur, fuse and change the atoms for the new "body" and you can't say he can't make the obsolite atoms into air/dust, or take any other mass around him to build a larger body.

MemeX

ps: I know he'd need a lot of air to get the mass together for a body.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by MemeX
I know he'd need a lot of air to get the mass together for a body.Well, actually he does not need lots of mass. He just needs enough energy. E = m*c^2 IMHO explains both transformations, the missing mass is converted into energy, and vice versa.

[MemeX]

Originally posted by r6d2
Well, actually he does not need lots of mass. He just needs enough energy. E = m*c^2 IMHO explains both transformations, the missing mass is converted into energy, and vice versa.

I'm not quite sure if that would explain it in my example. As I understand E is stored everywhere around you. Alone the engery that fusion releases for that small mass is amazingly much, and you don't have to use that much energy to get it started. But how can you convert the mass from "missing mass" by taking Energy and timse it by the speed of light squared. If that works then you could get yourself a pack of energy, compress it to a spot by what ever means of ability and end up with a chunk of gold. That makes me quesiton the relativity theory. There seems to be missing a factor (maybe mystic will power)in that forumla..

if E = m*c^2 then M should be M = c^2/E, right? (please correct me, it's been a while in physics)

MemeX

[Wolfman]

E = m*c^2 IMHO explains both transformations, the missing mass is converted into energy, and vice versa.
This unfortunately is what also drives a nuclear reaction ..the total conversion of mass into energy. V large hole in plot.
if E = m*c^2 then M should be M = c^2/E, right Hmm Steven 2brains Hawkins cant solve that one.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
This unfortunately is what also drives a nuclear reactionRemember a nuclear reaction can be safely controlled and used, so don't panic. Not every vampire would be a potential Chernobyll. :)
if E = m*c^2 then M should be M = c^2/E, right?Nope. m = E/c^2. It's not physics where it's been a while. It's in algebra! :D

The meaning of that equation is that if you want to produce m mass, you need E energy, and vice versa. So you see it's a huge amount of energy...

[Kedirekin]

Whether converting to air or to energy in the typical transformation duration, I see a huge explosion, or at least a hurricane of wind. And the other way is just as bad - either everything in a wide vicinity gets very close to absolute zero or you get an implosion sufficient to flatten buildings.

Converting to a solid or a liquid and back again is more workable, except that you never see anything like that during a transformation.

I guess I shouldn't complain though. Transformations are more mystical that scientific - and magicians make things disappear into thin air all the time.

[MemeX]

Originally posted by r6d2
Nope. m = E/c^2. It's not physics where it's been a while. It's in algebra! :D damn, i really need fresh up on algebra :) I knew when I tried to reformulate it, but i thought i might have just gotten it right..i thought wrong.

[Wolfman]

Why do the baddies in westerns always have to warn people... whats with the "Lets have a shootout in the main street".. why not get 3 men and shoot him/her in the back, down a dark Alley when they arent expecting it. Good guy shoots 3 bad guys at 30 yARDS, bad guys 10 yards away merely manage to "wing" the good guy, who always recovers from his shoulder wound, when before antseptics any wound would enatil a long lingering death from gangrene.

Helldrivers(B/w)... fastest Lorry drivers in the business!! Put schumacher/Andretti to shame..

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Why do the baddies in westerns always have to warn people... whats with the "Lets have a shootout in the main street"..Good point. I guess this has to do with it being "allowed" to shoot in self defence, so if the bad guy took the weapon from the holster first, and the good guy managed to kill him anyway, he's clean. That's why it was very important to be the fastest with the gun in town.
Good guy shoots 3 bad guys at 30 yARDS, bad guys 10 yards away merely manage to "wing" the good guyWell, he was good! :D:D:D

[r6d2]

Originally posted by diogo6
Irreversible is definitely worth watching... very shocking scene/plot... Very shocking indeed! The fight scene at the gay pub was bearable, but the one at the tunnel was too much for me.

Anyway, good plot. IMHO the story unfolds interestingly after the first 20 minutes. Before that I was completely lost.

P.S.: Only thing is next time those French film makers should hire a sober cameraman. :)

[MemeX]

Actually, because of my physics background I'm quite convinced that reverse time travel is impossible (unlike the forward one). But that's not the point.

I'm also the opinion time travel backward isn't possible, but time travel in the future is, although not in the cool way with spinning machines that get you there in 1 second. If it where possible to freeze somebody and keep him like that for 3000 years, and wake him up etc., would you still call it time travel?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by MemeX
would you still call it time travel? Yes, I think that's pretty much the way time travel to the future can be achieved.

I also have a theory of my own, but it has several holes yet which make it unsuitable for printing. :)

[iradic]

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[r6d2]

Originally posted by crusty
@Computers and films:
That's why the term 'Hollywood OS' came into existence in the first place. It's basically the way computers work in hollywood movies.This reminds me of No Way Out (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093640/). A computer is left unattended sharpening a photograh of the presumed suspect of murderer of Sean Young (Kevin Costner). The computer, by some sort of magic filtering, and after several hours, is able to reveal beyond any reasonable doubt, who the man portrayed is. :D

Maybe that movie is where @mf got the idea for his great toon filters. :D:D:D

[StrawMan]

When I first watched No Way Out I noticed that Costner runs up from some subway (it's suppsed to be but isn't the Metro) up onto M street where the Metro doesn't even come close to.

[Wilbert]

A computer is left unattended sharpening a photograh of the presumed suspect of murderer of Sean Young (Kevin Costner). The computer, by some sort of magic filtering, and after several hours, is able to reveal beyond any reasonable doubt, who the man portrayed is. :)
That also irritates me as hell. Happens with many detective / crime investigator series.

A blurred photograph (or video) of someone (so blurried, that you almost can't see whether it is a man or a guy): Could you sharpen it a bit (says someone to the police guy)? Yes, of course ... He starts to sharpen the video. Suddenly all kind of details become visible. Could you zoom in here (pointing to something what's supposed to be his face)? Of course ... The investigator starts zooming in (due to some miracle the picture stays sharp). After a while his face is completely visible, and they know who it is.

I hate that :devil: :devil: :devil:

[MemeX]

ah, but maybe the guy in charge of the video and picture optimising downsamples the picture first, if he showed the original he'd might lose his job, since the quality is already there, he'd be fired..a good example on how efficient the state uses our tax money.

[r6d2]

This Hollywood OS thing made me think of a possible companion: the Hollywood CPU. I recall that in a scene of T1, where the camera looks through its eyes, you know, that red thing, you can see the assembly code in a column at the left. It is a 6502 CPU!

For those too young to remember, the 6502 was the hart of the glorious Atari computers (and also some Commodores and early Apples, which used also a derivative, the 65C02). That was the time when Motorola used to dominate the microcomputer business. :)

So, we have that in 2029 when the machines dominate the world, the only surviving processor is an 8-bit CPU with no floating point unit, a 64KB address space, and a single register A as accumulator plus 2 index registers X and Y, which on top of that, could not address more than a 256 byte page. The stack was limited to 256 bytes too.

Anyway, I grew up coding 6502 assembler and I did some very interesting stuff (like floating point math routines). Probably one of the designers on the movie crew was an Atari fan too, so he made that small tribute.

[Wolfman]

6502 also used in the BBC micro.. great machine for its time..Thats when I gave up trying to learn assembler..or even handcrafting machine code. Also I think that the picture sharpening thing was first done in Blade runner.

[Soulhunter]

Time to to resuscitate this grandiose thread... ;)

Interesting article about time traveling here (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0004226A-F77D-1D4A-90FB809EC5880000)& here (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s428595.htm)!!!


Bye

[smok3]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Also I think that the picture sharpening thing was first done in Blade runner. nope, it was a microfilm scanner i belive... (but iam not sure really), wasnt the cpu in c64 -> 6510?

[Flexy]

Originally posted by smok3
nope, it was a microfilm scanner i belive... (but iam not sure really), wasnt the cpu in c64 -> 6510?

6510: C64
6502 was in VIC20 and in C64 Floppy and some older Commodore Comps like PET.
Just looked it up. Embarassing. Had a C64 for years and was not sure whether it's CPU was a 6502 or 6510 :)

Funny thing with the terminator assembly code btw :)

That's like in Star Trek:TOS...they all live in the future and do intergalactic space travel - but their furniture is all from the 60s :)

And..another funny note....i had to realize that my wife's cellphone is *definetly* MORE advanced and looks 'cooler' then any communicator in any of the Star Trek series :)

My favorite (back to this subject):

Some SciFi move.
It's the future.
Computers are INCREDIBLE powerful.
Indeed so powerful they develop their own 'consciousnes' and know answers to anything.
But then they start TALKING, and the voice is all distorted 'electronic' and robot-like because the voice synthesis just plain sucks :)

[Joe Fenton]

Lots of stuff covering topics new and old...

The CPU in the C64 (6510) is just a normal 6502 with a built-in port. The C64 used that port to control certain functions of the computer. Atari XE models used a similar chip.

I time travel every day... I climb in bed, close my eyes, and POOF! It's instantly morning. :D

Neutron bombs generate large quantities of neutrons (hence the name). These neutrons disrupt biological material while leaving inorganic material mostly unaffected. They don't penetrate the ground worth a damn and wouldn't have been useful in Starship Troopers.

Sound in space, along with explosions, could be an radio effect. Ships using ion propulsion would generate an electromagnetic signal that could be heard through receivers in other ships. Similar explanation for explosions. Think of it like hearing lightning through your AM radio from too far away to hear the physical thunder itself.

Star Trek time travel is really funny - be sure you go around the Sun the correct way: counter-clockwise to go back in time, and clockwise to go forward. :D

Some of the best realism in space is in 2001: A Space Oddyssey. No sound, the stars don't wizz by, all motion is in straight lines between attitude adjustments. Also note the part where Dave crosses over to the ship through a vacuum. He doesn't expand and pop like a balloon (one of the biggest fallacies in movies).

That was one of the funny parts of Total Recall. Mars has an atmosphere to begin with. It's just pretty thin and almost completely nitrogen. Even if it was a vacuum, you still wouldn't blow up like in the few scenes where this occurs. Another major snafu in Total Recall was where Arnold was using the guy's body as a shield against those high-powered handguns. The bullets would have passed through that body rather easily.

However, I always go with the saying "Don't let science stand in the way of good science fiction." If it's a good story, I can overlook some bad science, however, good science won't save a bad story. Besides, bad science just gives us more to talk about later when discussing the movie. :D

[Mug Funky]

ah yes, i see "insultingly stupid movie physics" has been posted here...

apart from the image sharpening. in bladerunner there's actually some kind of phase information recorded in the film and Harrison can see a suspect even though you could have sworn there was a door in front of them. although, credit to bladerunner in that the photo he got out of it after that farce wasn't a perfect actor's mugshot like you get in CSI.

CSI started with good science, but i gave up on it when that guy died from his mobile phone going off too close to his car's fuel cap. somebody give the writers the nobel prize :rolleyes:

Battlefield Earth? i never saw that after i learnt who wrote it. no fekking way. L Ron Hubbard was a mad bastard.

generally bad science/thin plots, etc don't bother me unless they're so glaring that they distract from the movie. if a movie is made well enough you'll suspend disbelief at least until you're done watching it.

with the matrix, i sat through it and was enthralled and gobsmacked by the effects, the story, the action, etc. it was only when the credits rolled and i was walking out of the cinema that i though to myself "if they feed the dead to the living, there must by a net decrease in total energy, as no system is 100% efficient, so the human farms were completely unsustainable and pointless". they covered this by having morpheus say "combined with a form of fusion, the machines had found all the power they would ever need". if they've got fusion what need is there of human power? to say nothing of the energy required to keep the matrix working... no machine is that stupid.

but it's a comic book story, and one must expect a bit of nonsense. i forgive it because it didn't spoil my enjoyment of the movie.

[r6d2]

I recently watched Event Horizon. The starship had a "built in black hole", user controlled. The black hole took the ship towards itself into another dimension. It came back afterwards, but alive. :D Give me a break... :sly:

About plots that don't close the circle... The 6th Day (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0216216/)... Maybe I did not get the point, but let's see the facts:

1. Arnie (Adam Gibson) and Michael Rapaport (Hank Morgan), switched roles and thus Rapaport was in the place were Arnie should have been and gets killed by mistake.

2. Tony Goldwyn (Michael Drucker) clones Rapaport to fix the mistake. Arnie was supposed to be alive and well, so why does he also clone Arnie, if he'd send the tough guys go to kill the Arnie clone anyway?

OK, let's assume I did not get it. They cloned Arnie first, and then they noticed the killed one was Rapaport. In this case it makes sense to go after the Arnie clone, but then again, why bother to clone Rapaport?

According to the story, cloning costs a fair amount of money, so why fix the Rapaport mistake?

You can say, well, if the guy had a life, why not give it back to him? So Goldwyn was a good guy after all? But what kind of life did clones had in that world? They could not even have assets of their own, they were plain "merchandise".

Ah, but the point is then... To lose their assets it was needed to reveal he was a clone, which was done by looking at the "version number" inside the right eye. There was no other way to tell.

But then again, why did they put that mark in the first place, if they wanted to get away with it?

I cannot close the circle. If some of you can, please let me know. I'm intrigued.

[easybeat]

Actually after watching Event Horizon my friend and I decide to rename it "Non-Event Horizon".

:)