Movie fictions: hardest to swallow

[r6d2]

Hi,

I've seen lots of movies, particularly in the science fiction genre, where the director expects us to believe things that just cannot happen, or that enter into contradictions with physics as we know it today.

For One: How it is possible that John Connor ended up being the son of the guy he sent to protect Sarah Connor from the first Terminator? Who was his father in the first place then?

Another example: Back to the Future I. The first time Einstein traveled 1 minute ahead of time, how possibly would the car appear in the exact same position he left before? Earth moves at 30 km/sec, so Doc and Marti had moved about 1 thousand miles during that minute!

Disclaimer: I love Sci-Fi movies, and I enjoy them in spite of these quirks, but I always thought they might have thought of those things too. ;)

Do you have your own hardest to swallow?

[jggimi]

With rare exception, any small arms handling or usage.

[StrawMan]

So you're perfectly willing to believe that reverse time travel is possible, but the rest of those little details bother you? Sheesh!

[adam]

How about Superman? Ok so he stops the missiles but not in enough time to save Lois. So he spins the Earth backwards to reverse time, silly but I can suspend disbelief for a comic book hero. So he returns and Lois is fine and all the places and people he saved are safe too, but what about the missiles? If he reversed time then aren't they still coming? How come only the good things go back to the way they were?

And then there's Signs. I love the movie, but if aliens have the technology to do intergalactic travel then I'd think they'd have a more high tech method of coordinating a global attack than crop circles. And I know the ending is supposed to be symbolic and all, but if your species' single weakness is water than I'd think you'd try to conquer a planet that wasn't 2/3 covered in it.

[Doobie]

I generally hate time travel in any movie or show, aside from the logic problems, it's usually done in dumb manner.

Movie studios need to need to make an effort to remove stupid stuff from movie scripts. But nooo, they think dumb stuff is cool.

The best scifi is when they take existing technology and make it more efficient, when they make practical technology that is now impractical, and when they have working technology that is based on what today is solid theory.

[KpeX]

Originally posted by adam
And then there's Signs. I love the movie, but if aliens have the technology to do intergalactic travel then I'd think they'd have a more high tech method of coordinating a global attack than crop circles. And I know the ending is supposed to be symbolic and all, but if your species' single weakness is water than I'd think you'd try to conquer a planet that wasn't 2/3 covered in it. *Sigh*.....yet another person that thinks Signs was about aliens...

[dani82]

@r6d2

the father doesn't really matter, she just needed to get laid; but here's a better question: "if they didn't sent back the Terminator, would John Conner even exists?"

your theory is only half here, the earth revolve & rotates, beside the 1 thousand miles, it would also be a couple 100 thousand feet above/below the earth's surface (depending on which way the car was traveling)

[bilu]

Originally posted by KpeX
*Sigh*.....yet another person that thinks Signs was about aliens... Well, the good part on that movie was the family relationship. The alien part completely sucked, and here's why:

1) They've been around Earth for thousands of years, according to the film. But they only attack now?

2) I agree with Adam. Crop signs to coordinate an attack?

3) The worst of them all. Intergalatic technology, coming to Earth for thousands of years, and they never discovered RAIN ???? Why do they walk around in a corrosive environment they know for thousands of years without protection?

Even having a nice part about family relationship, it was not the main part of the movie.

In the end, it was like "Mars Attack" but without the fun :rolleyes:


EDIT: About Sci-Fi, remember the first Star-Trek series and Space 1999? ;)


Bilu

[dragongodz]

r6d2 - about terminator, actually that part does make sense(asuming time travel possible of course). who was john conners father originally ? the same person, he has only 1 father. so how does that work you ask ? well its a temporal loop that fulfils the time line.

the really anoying part about all the terminator movies is actually how everyone always thinks they can change the future. destroy the chips, kill dyson etc etc etc. sorry thats not going to work. simply if they did do something that stopped WW3 then the original guy(cant think of his name at the mo) would never have come back to warn them. so they would not have taken the actions to stop it, so it would have happened. then he would have been sent back to warn them etc etc etc, thats a paradox. why nobdy managed to work that out in the years the films are meant to represent is whats irritating. actually they do show a tiny bit of knowledge in to by saying if they destroy the ships the work was based on and all the original information then that would solve it. close but no cigar. the problem is that johns father would not have been sent back yada yada yada the problem is then where would the chips have come from aswell ? so once stuck in that loop there was never anyway to change it the way they wanted to.

as for back to the future, yes you are right but lets just asume that part of the time machine also allowed for earth rotation and universal expansion etc. :)

i wont go in to films like indipendance day which had so many holes in it they should have called it leaky bucket.

finally lets remember guys that these are movies and not take them too seriously. :D

[ppera2]

Originally posted by r6d2
I've seen lots of movies, particularly in the science fiction genre, ....
For One: How it is possible that John Connor ended up being the son of the guy he sent to protect Sarah Connor from the first Terminator? Who was his father in the first place then?


I think that you could give hee much better examples... There is many movie about time-travelling, and all have more-less similar nonsenses. It's called time-travel paradox :) .

My example: Star Wars (any part) - fighter ships fly in space just like in atmosphere - fast rotating and monoevring, and we hear even sound...
I could write here at least 3 screens of examples, but it has not much sense. Enjoy movies! :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by StrawMan
So you're perfectly willing to believe that reverse time travel is possible, but the rest of those little details bother you?
Actually, because of my physics background I'm quite convinced that reverse time travel is impossible (unlike the forward one). But that's not the point. There is a difference between credibility and verisimilitude. Let me rephrase this, since it is quite "technical" in the world of writers:

A story can be unlikely, even impossible, but absolutely believable if well told. I'm willing to accept any unlikely story which is well told. (And of course I know it is just fiction).

As ppera2 mentions regarding Star Wars, almost any space movie has sound travelling in void space. You can hear the blasts coming and going and hitting their targets. Of course the movie would be a lot less interesting if it was "more real". We have learned to accept that in movies, sound travels in empty space. ;)

We have also learnt to live with time travel paradoxes. Interestingly enough, The Time Machine (the remake), has no such paradoxes. It is well thought and built, and presents a world were fate exists, and cannot be circumvented.

Nice examples you've given. Never looked into Signs and Superman thinking of this.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dani82
if they didn't sent back the Terminator, would John Conner even exists?
If John Connor did not exist, who would have sent the Terminator? ;)
the earth revolve & rotates, beside the 1 thousand miles, it would also be a couple 100 thousand feet above/below the earth's surface (depending on which way the car was traveling)
It was around midnight, so it is safe to assume they were on the point on Earth farthest from the Sun. After 60 seconds and 1800 km traveled, the car would have been left behind, floating in space. So you see rotation is really irrelevant.

Of course that, as dragongodz suggests, the time machine could account for this effect, but they did not dig into it very much.

There is also another error, a bigger one. In part II, Tannen goes to its own youth, he knows he's talking to himself, and no "space-time continuum collapse" is produced, as announced by Doc to Marti regarding himself. OTOH, when his fiance and wife meet in the future, they both fade. Why did not both Tannen fade?

But the worst thing is that after old Tannen gives young Tannen the almanaq, he returns to a world that did not exist! Young Tannen changed history so Doc And Marti end up trapped in space-time. However, they manage to get back.

I guess that's why nature has precluded reverse time travel. My hope is the forward one, and I'm working on it. ;)

[wmansir]

For the Terminator, this is how I explain it.

Originally Sarah Connor met some guy (Mr. X) and had a kid, John Connor. Mr. X wasn't Kyle Reese. John grows up to lead the human revolt after the machines take over. The machines send back the Terminator to kill Sarah. John sends back Kyle, just at random. Kyle changes Sarah's future so she doesn't meet Mr. X, but instead father's John himself. John is raised knowing that Kyle is his father this time he sends him back on purpose (he also knows he is to become a leader, so he self-fulfills that destiny too). And now were stuck in the loop.

Getting into the loop is the easy part but, as dragongodz pointed out, getting out seems more difficult.

[ppera2]

When we talk about Terminators, I must say that whole plot starts at one of biggest stupidity seen: both fighters (savior and killer) always appear in same moment in past. It stays for first part too, where human is savior. This is ridiculous - why they didn't set time machine to 1 day earlier for example, to give some advance?

But I forgive them, because of good action :) Sadly, part 3 is complete lack of invention :(

[Kedirekin]

When I was in high school, my friends and I had more fun coming up with pseudo-science explanations of why thing worked.

Sounds in space: there really aren't any. Human factors research found that people responded better (fighter pilots, people getting to battle stations or evacuation pods) when the sounds and shakes of battle are present. To improve performance, all ships reproduce the battle sensations as if things were taking place in an atmosphere.

Flying like planes: Again, human factors research shows the fighter pilots fight better when ships respond like a plane - it ties into 10's of thousands (if not millions) of years of evolution in a planetary environment. Technology allows ships to reproduce the flight characteristics of planes even in the absence of atmosphere.
[a friend of mine even came up with a pseudo-science technology for this - he called it a spacetime hook. A device induces drag directly by digging in to spacetime (like a tank locking up one tread or the other). He decided the energy released by the ship would re-enter the universe as a line of light trailing the inside wingtip - the device excites spacetime, and spacetime releases visible light as it returns to a quiescent state. Unfortunately they didn't do the light trail thing in Star Wars. I know it's nonsense, but it would be cool looking, and the point is that it's difficult to prove that such a device can't exist, and that's a whole basis for dramatic license - the movie doesn't have to explain why something works the way it does.]

Time travel and moving objects: massive objects drag spacetime with them, rotation included. An object moving through time is essentially locked to the nearest massive object (the earth), and retains it location relative to that object. No special effort is required by the scientist to account for motion through space; it's just an automatic part of time travel.
[Incidentally, even though we were just high school kids on a lark, current accepted science hints at this a little bit, though the object in question has to be much more massive than a planet. A rotating black hole or super massive (neutron matter) cylinder drags spacetime, so that in a certain region near the object, motion through space becomes motion through time.]

Okay, I know your natural reaction will be to pick apart explanations, just as you want to pick apart the fax-pau in the movie itself, but you'd be missing the point. Remember this is fiction - you can pick apart any particular explanation you want - the point is to come up with your own (somewhat) plausible explanation. Again this is fiction, and you can't prove that any given fictional device or artifice can't exist, even to the point of magic.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Kedirekin
Okay, I know your natural reaction will be to pick apart explanations,
Absolutely not, the explanations you provided are incredible, but believable. That is precisely the point. You can tell the wildest story provided you cover all the holes.

[echooff]

I always liked the world they traveled to in Stargate. Sand and dust as far as the eye could see. Where did all the food and water come from to sustain the population. How about all of the fires burning in Armegeddon after the shuttle crashed on the asteroid. Fire with no oxygen?

[r6d2]

Oh, Armageddon and Sudden Impact are jewels on their own. ;)

And what about Red Planet? Oxygen on Mars? It could have been created by those creatures, but how was it sustained, if Mars's mass is not big enough?

[vhelp]

hay guys,

how about "first men on the moon" movie !!

The guys on the moon, right ??
Yeah, now he takes off his glove to uncover the little flag ??
I think that's how it happended. (by the way, I'm looking for this
movie for my collection) anyways..

I never really thought about till I aw "mission to mars" when the
guy took off his helpmet, so that his wife would not come any closer
to rescue him, in lue of risking her own life as well as the remaining
crews !! He instantly frooze. Actually, I thought while in space,
as he was floating in it, he would get sucked out of his space suite ?

Anyways, good thread d2,
-vhelp

[r6d2]

Originally posted by vhelp
He instantly frooze. Actually, I thought while in space,
as he was floating in it, he would get sucked out of his space suite?
Very interesting question. AFAIK, you cannot define temperature in an empty space, but according to this (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/faq/part4/section-14.html) page, at 1 AU (Earh distance from Sun), his temperature would be like 7ºC. If we consider the man at Mars distance and ignore Sun's radiation (which decreases with the square of the radius), his temperature would be about 5ºK!!! So the movie would be correct. He freezes to hell. :D:D:D

[dvd_maniac]

How about the original Planet of the Apes... Not so much time travel but still out there. However I think this movie, as old as it is, was well thought out and very believable... The sequels sucked though...

[cypher_soundz]

finally lets remember guys that these are movies and not take them too seriously.
i second that, if every tiny detail was correct , it would cost millions more for a movie to be created, and lets not forget universal studios would be able to go back in time, thanks to their "back to the future film/invention :rolleyes: :p i think we would have a minority report on our hands then :rolleyes:.
i think in general movie fiction is supposed to be exactly that, fiction. when i sit down to watch a movie , its not how believable the film is compared to science, but how believable the director has made the movie. i watch a film with an anticipation for fiction, knowing that something could not happen in real life, i don't watch them for knowledge, but for enjoyment.
Regards
cyph

[r6d2]

Well, in spite of pointing it out twice, seems that I still don't make my point clear enough: I also enjoy the movies! And please, don't believe I take them "seriously" as facts.

But I do take them seriously as "stories".

Let me put it this way, using another writer's technicality. There's a motto some writers abide to. It's difficult for me to translate it into English, but it is sort of "f**k the reader". It means that the author does not care wether the reader gets it or not. He just writes things down counting on a high percentage of the audience will swallow anything. Sort of "They already bought the ticket, so screw them".

Commercially written best sellers are in the mass market business, and they know about Mr. Cole's Axiom (see my sig.).

Every movie script has some degree of refinement. If they target to more clever audiences, they refine it more. They do this until critical mass of espectators are covered or budget runs out. ;)

I believe that an author which respects himself (and hence respect his audience) must target to satisfy as most people as possible, without sacrificing integrity of the story with cheap tricks.

But rest assured, the Terminator series is my favourite trilogy ever, even after the third one, that sucked big time! ;) And about Back to the future, it's like Santa Claus to me. I have always wished it was true. ;)

[Sirber]

beer always helps in those situations :D

[adam]

Originally posted by KpeX
*Sigh*.....yet another person that thinks Signs was about aliens...

Last time I checked, yes there were aliens in the movie Signs and I was just commenting on the facts surrounding their arrival and how they were just a little "hard to swallow." At least my post was on topic.

[KpeX]

Originally posted by adam
Last time I checked, yes there were aliens in the movie Signs and I was just commenting on the facts surrounding their arrival and how they were just a little "hard to swallow." At least my post was on topic. Thanks for making my point exactly.

[adam]

You're right. They did look more like trolls than aliens.

Moving on: My favorite is whenever anyone is hacking into a computer and up pops colorful rubik's cubes and DNA strands, like in Swordfish.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by adam
My favorite is whenever anyone is hacking into a computer and up pops colorful rubik's cubes and DNA strands, like in Swordfish.
Yes, indeed! Or when somebody is entering the FBI or the CIA computers, all menus or commands are pretty explicit and useful.

Also, like in Clear and Present Danger, when Jack Ryan is trying to copy the other guy's computer files while he is deleting them. The delete animation is even happening on a context-related DOS like system! :)

And when someone is looking for specific files related to a case on somebody else's computer... Always to the point. Nice and easy. :)

I usually cannot find a file in my own computer. :D:D:D
So the movie would be correct. He freezes to hell.
Second thought... Only for a short while, because entering the Mars atmosphere will cook him and dissolve him, open helmet or not. ;)
That is precisely the point. You can tell the wildest story provided you cover all the holes.
Actually, Kedirekin reminded me of this (http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/Humor/Cartoon-Laws-of-Physics.html) funny topic. You see what I mean? Even cartoon have laws, and cartoonists abide by them, what on its very escence makes what they do a cartoon. ;)

[StrawMan]

Originally posted by r6d2
Every movie script has some degree of polishment. If they target to more clever audiences, they polish it more. They do this until critical mass of espectators are covered or budget runs out. ;)

I believe that an author which respects himself (and hence respect his audience) must target to satisfy as most people as possible, without sacrificing integrity of the story with cheap tricks.



What kind of respect for himself does an author have who uses a word like "polishment"?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by StrawMan
What kind of respect for himself does an author have who uses a word like "polishment"?
Oh, a lot indeed. I just polished my post to use "refine" instead, so I could target more educated audiences like you. :)

BTW, iespell suggested me to replace StrawMan with Straw Man, but I guess that would not be right, would it?

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by r6d2
How it is possible that John Connor ended up being the son of the guy he sent to protect Sarah Connor from the first Terminator? Who was his father in the first place then?
Ok, made some thoughts about that stuff !!!

Maybe this theory sucks, but...

Time traveling into the past should be impossible if you want to stay in the same dimension (killing your grandfather paradoxum). Ok, sure time is also a dimension, but mean the "place" here... How could you kill your grandfather without fearing that you will never be born? Simple, you don't kill your own grandfather, you kill the grandfather of "you" in a parallel dimension! Only the father of your parallel "you" will not be born, your parallel "you" too. But your "real" grandfather, of "your" dimension, is still alive...So you are still able to do all this nasty stuff. Means, traveling into past is also a travel into a parallel dimension... For traveling into future, its anyway possible, because we all doing it all the time, also right now... Watch your clock!


Did I wrote all this dumb stuff... :O

Nah, it was my "bad twin" from a parallel dimension !!!


Bye

[markrb]

Sometimes people do actually try to make it as close to reality as possible given that most of SCI-FI is what is not possible today.

In the show FireFly (short lived, but excellent) they had the no sound in space and tried to stay with the laws of the universe as much as possible. Even consulting with scientists to see if things were possible if the technology exhisted.

On the show Babylon 5 Nasa was a constant contact. Occasionally there would be sound in space and they justified this by saying that if a ship exploded and you went through the remains of it's atmosphere you would have enough air to hear the explosion. This point was brought up by one of the Nasa people. Nasa even contacted the show to see detailed drawings of the fighter the humans used as they felt the design was a good one for a space cargo mover. The show gave them everything they had in return that if this was ever built it was to be named a Star Fury after the name of the ship on the show.

Both creators of the show freely admitted that they stretched the realm of reality to help the show, but whenever possible they stuck with what was possible.

Just consider how many things that were once just science fiction are now reality. Scuba gear was first used as a prop in a James Bond movie, before it was even an invention. Later it was made into a real usable item. Same with the underwater camera.

Lasers were long only in the realm of sci-fi, but we do laser surgery everyday now.

There will always be things that are just plain stupid in film, books and TV, but this has always been the case. It doesn't have to be Sci-Fi to make no sense at all. I would much rather live in a world full of imagination, no matter how absured, then to live in a place without vision.

Mark

[ppera2]

@Soulhunter

Is that parallel dim. stuff inspired with book 'Timeline' ?

[vhelp]

How about in Superman (a favoriate of mine 1 and 2) ...

When LEXX shoots superman w/ a many guns and none of the bullets
seem to go near his eyes. Common.. shoot the eyes and they'll pop
out or something - pfew!


Another thing that really gets me is this.. when two guys are fighting,
ever notice how, where one guys getting the crap kided out of him and
is almost unconchious (spelling) and just as he looks like he's gonna
get the hit, he's all full of energy and start kidding the other guys
butt, and then it's the other's turn, and then the other guys, and so
on and so on and .. .. ..
You've gotta be pretty monkey-mad to not figure out somethings' wrong.

The BORG.. my favorite (even though they killed it ta death w/ wayyy
too much publicity and nonsense) .. they could've done MUCH bette w/
this if they hadden't gone to far w/ their "boring" stupidity.
Did you ever stop to wonder, when thier constant battle w/ taking over
many worlds and what nots, that they came accross various time-travel
technoligies, that they would have done as Star Fleet did, keep several
portals open in various time-lines, so that if something goes wrong,
they send somebody back in the undo the scew-up. YOu would think that
w/ the BORG, they've ben even smarter, and done the same, but probably
even better when Star Fleets way, that when Voyager had so called
destroyed them, the queen (or queens) would have ben able to undo what
Voyager did, and consiquently, the BORG would continue - - and continue
w/ screwing the Humanity etc, bla bla bla ???

More mayham ...
-vhelp

[r6d2]

Originally posted by markrb
Occasionally there would be sound in space and they justified this by saying that if a ship exploded and you went through the remains of it's atmosphere you would have enough air to hear the explosion. This point was brought up by one of the Nasa people.
Uh...? Did that NASA guy know that according to the Kinetic Theory of Gases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_theory_of_gases), if pressure approaches to zero, volume tends to infinity? What kind of medium is that whose density is practically zero?

Maybe those were the same NASA guys which did not consider the differences between the UK and US metric systems and blew up Mars Orbiter (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/514763.stm), a US$125 million piece of equipment. :)
Scuba gear was first used as a prop in a James Bond movie, before it was even an invention.
According to this page (http://www.123scuba.com/history.html), Scuba was taken to its current form by Cousteau and others around 1943, long before the first Bond movie was shot. Check also here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuba). :confused:
Lasers were long only in the realm of sci-fi, but we do laser surgery everyday now.
A group of scientists was awarded the Nobel prize in 1964, 40 years ago, for the successful construction of a maser-laser beam. Whatever ray-emitting pistol you saw before that might have been a vision of what would be to come. I don't remember to have seen any movie with that concept though, dated before the invention of the Laser.
There will always be things that are just plain stupid in film, books and TV, but this has always been the case.
I agree with the first part of your assertion, but not with the second one. Kubrick, for instance, was much like Verne. He cared for details, and he built a piece of work which is correct on almost every respect. For those interested, this (http://www.kubrick2001.com/) may be worth a look.
I would much rather live in a world full of imagination, no matter how absured, then to live in a place without vision.
Fully agree with this. Very good line indeed! Just don't be carried away by fireworks. True scientific innovation is not likely to come from the movies. 95% of the scientists that history of mankind has known are alive today, and they are working real hard. ;)

[dani82]

okay, here's a though, "time is constantly changing", the Terminator was sent back to kill the leader of the resistant* and not John Conner

here's something that's been bothering me, everytime they shot Superman, the bullets bounce off him, where exacting do they go?

"killing your grandfather paradoxum", Futurama did an episode about that.




*************SPOILER******************









*the leader of the resistant is the boyfriend of the General's daugther at the time of Judgement Day; in that timeline the boyfriend's John Conner (now! that's a loop)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Time traveling into the past should be impossible if you want to stay in the same dimension (killing your grandfather paradoxum...) !!!
Well, this parallel universe stuff is the explanation Doc gives to Marty in Back to the Future. It's a nice one, but as I said before, even the movie does not respect it! :)

You see? This is again what I mean. The author uses the parallel universe to explain things, which is not science, but fiction. The movie could be consistent if it stayed always into that track, but then the script writer does not follow its very own line of reasoning on the old Tannen backtrip...
okay, here's a though, "time is constantly changing", the Terminator was sent back to kill the leader of the resistant* and not John Conner
Not at all. Remember that on T1, it was sent to kill Sarah. On T2, it was sent to kill John. Always with a first and a last name, a specific person.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by vhelp
Another thing that really gets me is this.. when two guys are fighting [...]
This is very recurring too, very well noted!

Also, have you noticed that the bad guys just never kill the hero? In James Bond, for instance, he is always left besides a bomb, tied into a laser's path, sunk into water with a heavy object, etc. Never just plain shot at once.

And the bad guys always "explain too much", which gives the hero enough time to react and plan a scape or situation turnover. ;)

[dragongodz]

everyone please read carefully because this is the last time i will write this.
with in terminater with reese being sent back and father john connor etc there is NO PARADOX. why ? because it fulfils and maintains the timeline quoted. so no need for parralel dimensions or another father that never was etc. THAT part is actually correct.
the part that isnt is the constant expecting to change the future orto be precise the older john connors past(he who sent back reece). see things like killing reese before he impregnates sarah or dtopping WW3 which was the reason for reese to be sent back etc would cause the "killing ones father" paradox quoted.
so PLEASE drop the suposed mistake of reese since it ISNT.

please lets here about some other movies ?

"have you noticed that the bad guys just never kill the hero?"
yes and the autin powers movies make fun of that very fact. :)

heres a quote from a reasonably well known sci-fi author which says a lot aswell.
"there is more to a science fiction story than the science it contains. there is also the story and if the science it contains is bent by later discoveries , or because the plot absolutely demands the bending , we tend to forgive and overlook." - Isaac Asimov
really you need to read the whole text. its the introduction in the book "robot dreams".

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dragongodz
everyone please read carefully because this is the last time i will write this. [...] there is NO PARADOX. [...] so PLEASE drop the suposed mistake of reese since it ISNT.
OK, I get your point now. The time loop closes perfectly then. There is no way to change the future, right? Well, I think I have to watch T3 again with that in mind. Maybe I'll find it does not suck that much. ;) (And I'll be watching out for Doom's day) :D:D:D
please lets here about some other movies ?
I know you want to leave the Terminator series behind, but since you cleared my first non-paradox at last, maybe you can clear for me other things:

1. If only organic material can travel back on the time machine (according to T1, that's the reason they did not bring any weapons), how did the terminators, all somewhat metal, did the trick?

2. If the future cannot ultimately be changed, how can be explained that TX actually kills some of John Connor's first line officers of the resistance? (like the one on the AutoMac).
heres a quote from a reasonably well known sci-fi author which says a lot aswell.
Asimov is my favorite Sci-Fi author (he is one of the two most prolific authors in history of mankind). He practically invented the Sci-Fi genre. I've always wondered why nobody has taken the Foundation series to the silver screen.

The phrase you quoted is precisely the idea. I could not have said it any better, of course. As an author, you are allowed (and encouraged) to bend the rules, or even create new ones. In fact, he created the laws of robotics which almost every other author has decided to take as "absolute".

But when creating new worlds, he was pretty aware of the consistency matters. He was even consistent with some his other stories too! That was a bright guy indeed.

[markrb]

Uh...? Did that NASA guy know that according to the Kinetic Theory of Gases, if pressure approaches to zero, volume tends to infinity? What kind of medium is that whose density is practically zero?

I am not saying the five minutes or even 5 seconds after the explosion you would be able to hear it, only during the explosion. Basically you would have to arrive at a point were air or other gases are leaking/leaving the destroyed or soon to be destroyed ship. You would have to be almost in the explosion to be able to hear it.

I mixed my movies up on the SCUBA. I meant 20,000 leagues under the Sea, but even that was made later then that article you showed me.

Mark

[lexor]

how about X2? When wolverine gets shot he usually out for a bit while his regeneration system kicks in. But in X2 he got shot in the forehead, which is impossible since his forehead is plated with Adamantium (or whatever that unbreakable metal is called), you can see it in X1. the bullet shoul've merely scratched the surface, and definitely not gone into his skull.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by markrb
You would have to be almost in the explosion to be able to hear it.Well, I think you had to be there. :D:D:D

But give it yet another thought. A spaceship would contain as much air as its volume, otherwise there would be overpressure for the crew. Even if they had some compressed reserves of air to recycle and that stuff, let's assume twice its volume, the very instant the explosion blows volume constrains are released, so air expands quite fast and density should decrease with the cube of the expansive wave radius...

I think the only ones to barely hear a very short sound would be the poor crew members of that ship. :)

BTW, this reminds me of another weird Sci-fi typical space effect: explosions generally expand along the horizon line of the observer, like if empty space was not isotropic. ;)

[theReal]

One movie that really tops them all in my opinion is Starship Troopers: They know that those bugs are attacking from this one single planet. Why the hack don't they throw a bunch of H-bombs onto this planet and thorouhgly destroy it once and for all ??????

Even nowadays we could produce enough weapons to tear a whole planet into pieces - why should those guys in the future not be able to do it????

No, instead they play WWII on bug-planet and shoot the bugs with tiny handheld firearms...

[StrawMan]

Hydrogen bombs don't actually "destroy" the planet, they just explode on the surface. "Destroying the planet" is really just a euphamism people use to mean "kill all the people on the planet." haven't you ever heard the one about the only species that could survive a nuclear holocaust are cockroaches?

Since the bugs in Starship Troopers lived underground, I don't think nukes would have killed them. In fact later in the movie soldiers fire nukes into the caves in order to kill the bugs.

My favorite factoid about Starship Troopers (Based on the Heinlein book) is that a New York Times movie reviewer accused the filmmakers of "accidentally" making a movie that promotes fascism. I wonder if the reviewer even knew the movie was based on a book that itself was a condemnation of fascism? And that the moviemakers were trying to convey that in the film?

I guess most people just think it's a fun spacey shoot-em up film.

C'est la vie.

[lexor]

fine then neutron bombs, the'll destroy every(including underground) forms of life (aka biomatter). done.

what is even worse in that movie is that there are all these bugs on completely deserted planets, what the hell do they eat?

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by ppera2
@Soulhunter

Is that parallel dim. stuff inspired with book 'Timeline' ?
No, just some dumb thoughts of me... :D

All knowledge I have about this stuff is a mixture from Star-track n' the Discovery-channel !!!


I only tried to think this way... ;)

Having a hole in a story... Fix it by reverting the problem !!!


And something Ive learned from the Simpsons...

Having a hole in a fantasy story... Tell them it was the wizard !!!


Bye

[Jolard]

Bad logic in movies bothers me too. In fact I can live with far out unrealistic stuff in movies, as long as they are consistent in their own "universes" laws. For example, I can live with magic, which doesn't exist in the real world, as long is it is consistently applied. What annoys me is when writers break their own rules.

For some other fun examples, here is a great site:

http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Jolard
For some other fun examples, here is a great site:
Very great site indeed! :thanks: a lot! I had heard some of that stuff before, but here you get it all, and it is very well written and explained, and fun!

[dragongodz]

"how did the terminators, all somewhat metal, did the trick?"
T1 touched on it itself.while metal could not be transported back flesh covered metal could. think of it like a radiation suite or protective layer. actually in T2 and T3 they dont mention it too much but notice the new terminators dont need human flesh ? they are more advanced though with morphing capabilities which one has to asume includes the ability for the surface structure to emulate flesh to the degree that it form the same protective barrier. thus the new terminators dont need flesh while the old(arnie) one does.

"If the future cannot ultimately be changed, how can be explained that TX actually kills some of John Connor's first line officers of the resistance?"
since the whole fact that the future cant be changed (since it also the past of reese which interacted with the past etc etc etc) then this is possible. that being its actually impossible(so a mistake) but made possible for the use of tension and to get the common person to think there is some danger. if you explained to everyone that there was absolutly no risk to the main characters before they watched the movie then most people would not find it as interesting a film would they.

"Asimov is my favorite Sci-Fi author"
mine too of course. :)
"I've always wondered why nobody has taken the Foundation series to the silver screen."
complexity, cost, the risk of a very big backlash from fans if they stuffed it, all of the above. :D
its a pity that the connecting series he had planned (from 'robots and empire' to 'foundation') will never be written.

[wmansir]

If your an Asimov fan this (http://www.irobotnow.com/) should get you excited.
(Edit: This will be by the same guy who directed Dark City and The Crow, Alex Proyas. )


As far as Starship Troopers:

It's weird because I just typed up a response to almost the exact same criticism on another message board. The original story had each soldier equipped with a tactical armor suit which made them, in effect, flying nuclear tanks. These were not in the film, probably because of cost, but also to make the characters more sympathetic and humane.

Besides, ground troops are always a better story. Look at Space Above and Beyond (a very similar story), these guys are the best fighter pilots earth has, yet they spend most of their missions on ground patrol. That doesn't make much sense, but it's more entertaining.

[StrawMan]

Originally posted by wmansir
If your an Asimov fan this (http://www.irobotnow.com/) should get you excited.
(Edit: This will be by the same guy who directed Dark City and The Crow, Alex Proyas. )


As far as Starship Troopers:

It's weird because I just typed up a response to almost the exact same criticism on another message board. The original story had each soldier equipped with a tactical armor suit which made them, in effect, flying nuclear tanks. These were not in the film, probably because of cost, but also to make the characters more sympathetic and humane.

Besides, ground troops are always a better story. Look at Space Above and Beyond (a very similar story), these guys are the best fighter pilots earth has, yet they spend most of their missions on ground patrol. That doesn't make much sense, but it's more entertaining.

I would have to go with cost. Why would the filmmaker want to make the troopers more sympathetic when they are the bad guys?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dragongodz
thus the new terminators dont need flesh while the old(arnie) one does.
So, Arnie and Kyle could have brought in weapons, provided those were covered with flesh? Why didn't they then? :confused: (The other terminators needed no weapons, of course.)
that being its actually impossible(so a mistake) but made possible for the use of tension and to get the common person to think there is some danger.
So the AutoMac guy was an expendable resource just put there to have the audience more thrilled? Quoting "The last American hero": Big mistake! :D
"I've always wondered why nobody has taken the Foundation series to the silver screen."
complexity, cost, the risk of a very big backlash from fans if they stuffed it, all of the above. :D
Yes, quite a bunch of casting would be needed indeed. My choice for Hari Seldon would be Antony Hopkins and Danny de Vito as The Mule. :)

However, if well done, I think the fans would swallow it all, just like the Lord of the Rings saga. Just think about all the gadgets that could be built as collectibles!
its a pity that the connecting series he had planned (from 'robots and empire' to 'foundation') will never be written.
Well, maybe his brain could be restored and put back to work again in the near future. ;)

[dvd_master]

I forgot which movie it is, but a guy ruined a huge network of encrypted computers by typed "upload virus" in the screen.

And for some reason, big huge computers in lots of movies has HUGE amounts of technical graphics (usually the green outline things) with semi-transparent screens and quickly scrolling text. :rolleyes:

That new movie coming, with the teenager on a mission, and there's the super genius kid with them that made a projection model of a building with the green-like thing, it just looks ridiculous.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dvd_master
I forgot which movie it is, but a guy ruined a huge network of encrypted computers by typed "upload virus" in the screen.
Not to mention the almighty search engines those computers have:

% Find "John Walken, Arizona"
Found 5 entries.
Walken, John K., DECEASED
Walken, Johnattan, DECEASED
Walken, John F., 4 years old
Walkenson, John L., DECEASED
Walken, John W., DANGEROUS CRIMINAL

:D

[Wolfman]

In the film "when dinsoaurs ruled the earth" (maybe) the tribe of blond haired proto people throw raquel Welch out of their tribe, for being Dark haired, I mean, would you? totally unbelievable!

ALso why do all space battles have thier roots in either sea warfare "the engines cant take it Capt", & rocking from side to side? to the less than ininitely fast light beams (phasers) which are shoot-outs with guns. Except of course for star-wars which uses a samurai metaphor (jedis and light sabres). At least Dune tried something new even if it wasnt totally successful. And why is Kirk the physical equal (barely) of all the aliens he meets? Anybody who gets into that many fist-fights would be retired from service..with a pyschiatric discharge. And theres also the "hiding in an asteroid cloud".... ww2 fighter planes.

[adam]

How about legal movies where the underdog lawyer manages to win the impossible case in their closing argument. Like in a Time to Kill he manages to get a lifelong racist, who had already decided to vote guilty, to find Sam Jackson innocent just by making an emotional closing.

[dragongodz]

"So, Arnie and Kyle could have brought in weapons, provided those were covered with flesh? Why didn't they then?"
to blend with normal populace ? save on budget ? i dont know ? :)

"Danny de Vito as The Mule"
hmmm yes he could but i would rather someone else.
"However, if well done, I think the fans would swallow it all, just like the Lord of the Rings saga."
true but you have to remember that peter jackson had to fight for LOR to be 3 movies. the studio wanted the 3 books in 1 film and he thankfully refused no matter what they said. i dont know if foundation would have the same clout to force the issue.

"why do all space battles have thier roots in either sea warfare 'the engines cant take it Capt' "
maybe because they fly spaceSHIPS. :sly:

"why is Kirk the physical equal (barely) of all the aliens he meets? Anybody who gets into that many fist-fights would be retired from service"
gene roddenberry sold star trek to the studio as a western in space. the first pilot(the cage) he made was far from it and was rejected, they wanted fist fights and shoot outs damn it. so that had to be added to keep the studio happy and keep the show on the air.

[r6d2]

Hmm... Perhaps the Foundation series might better be shot as a TV series, with several episodes spanning several seasons. Due to the high rotation of characters, they would not have the problem of the regular cast end up asking for millionaire salaries if the show succeeds (like Friends, for instance).

About the effect of final emotional closings in legal battles, several movies exploit the fact of a guilty party getting a not guilty verdict due to plain emotions. Outstanding examples are Regarding Henry, where Harrison Ford wins a case of malpractice, from the hospital side. Or Primal Fear, where Richard Gere frees Edward Norton (terrific performance of this guy). And of course The Devil's Advocate. (And let's not forget Witness for the Prosecution.)

Also, 12 Angry Men (I saw the remake, with Jack Lemmon as the defecting juror) is a living parody of how fragile human justice can be. One single juror votes again the guilty verdict, and the whole movie shows how this guy gets to convince all the other ones of the defendant's innocence.

I certainly would like to have Lemmon as a juror on any case against me. :)

[adam]

Oh yeah 12 angry men is a great example. The straw that finally breaks the camel's back is that the guy brings in a knife which is identical to the murder weapon, to show that the kid's possession of one like it doesn't really prove anything. You can't do that! Jurors can't go out and do their own investigating. Still a great movie though.

I got another one. How about in Jaws 4 when they manage to attach a strobe to the shark. By flashing the strobe it somehow hurts the shark and causes it to jump out of the water?

[StrawMan]

Is that like putting a fricking laser on his fricking head?

[markrb]

"However, if well done, I think the fans would swallow it all, just like the Lord of the Rings saga."
true but you have to remember that peter jackson had to fight for LOR to be 3 movies. the studio wanted the 3 books in 1 film and he thankfully refused no matter what they said. i dont know if foundation would have the same clout to force the issue.
If you watch the extra's in the first extended edition of the series this statement is proven false. Peter Jackson actually went to them with the idea of making the 3 books into two movies thinking that there is noway these people will fund three movies. The Studio head came back with "there are 3 books, why shouldn't there be 3 movies?"


Mark

[r6d2]

Originally posted by markrb
Peter Jackson actually went to them with the idea of making the 3 books into two movies thinking that there is noway these people will fund three movies.
AFAIK, he shot the whole three movies together, so Elijah Wood would not grow up during the resting periods. :)

Did two or three movies actually made a difference in funding budget? I don't think it would have been significant in costs.

Besides, by doing three, they collect income for three years in a row for basically the same work. IMHO, the studios now their business. ;)

[ppera2]

Originally posted by r6d2
Did two or three movies actually made a difference in funding budget? I don't think it would have been significant in costs.
Besides, by doing three, they collect income for three years in a row for basically the same work. IMHO, the studios now their business. ;)

That's not correct. Large part of costs went to special (CGI) effects, which are made during long period.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by ppera2
That's not correct. Large part of costs went to special (CGI) effects, which are made during long period.
Even if the cost of 3 movies was 50% higher than 2 movies (i.e., it is linear, which I don't buy anyway due to scale economies), the profit of 3 is much higher than of 2, so the studios made more money after all.

If you have numbers to back up your statement, I'd be glad to hear them.

[ppera2]

I think that we don't need some numbers here. It's simple not possible to put 10 hours in 2 movie. It's not possible to make all work in 1 year. Making of LOTR serial started much earlier than shoting, just to mention.

Beside it, I don't care how filmmaking costed, how much they will profit and similar. If movie is good, I will gladly pay for watch it.

P.S. I just saw our avatars :) Normal that we started fight :D

[nikthebak]

Each time science is involved. Physics, biology, medicine and most of all, computer science.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the worst example of them all, which is:

INDEPENDENCE DAY

Scenario:

A guy uses his modem (ITU-T V.32) to dial up to aliens' modem (ITU-T V.32). Then he uploads a COMPUTER VIRUS (Win32 executable, probably written with MASM) to the aliens. The aliens' computer runs either on Windows or some system that executes Win32 object code. Bang! Their systems crash.

That's vile. That's bad. That's the most revolting thing I've ever heard. Just thinking about it makes me feel so dirty that I must go and wash myself with soap.

[Wolfman]

The aliens' computer runs either on Windows or some system that executes Win32 object code. This simply proves BG Is an alien from another planet.. and that NO human could write such bad code. No wonder the interface is rubbish? its written for 10 armed octopie who see in the infrared and live for 10000 years.. so boot up time and defragging is not a problem!!

[Kedirekin]

And they have a wonderfull three day ritual for saying hello.

Just kidding. A little STNG trivia from my favorite episode.

We're mostly tech-heads here, so it only makes sense that it'd be mostly science fax paus that would drive us nuts. I wonder if Humanities majors get similarly distracted any time there's an art fax pau in a movie.

I was thinking yesterday one of the things that gets to me are transformations - it just raises a red flag in the back of my mind. When Dracula transforms into a bat, why isn't he a *huge* bat with a 60 foot wing span (that incidentally would break off if he tried to flap them)? Where did all the extra mass go? There are tons of movies with transformations like this. I thought League of Extraordinary Gentlemen got it right with their vampiress transforming into a whole gaggle of bats, but then they've got Jekyll transforming into a much more massive Hyde.

Another one that got to me was The Core. I had real problems swallowing a ship that could drill through solid rock at 30 MPH (or however fast it went) and could withstand pressures 100's of miles down. This exceeds even my ability to come up with pseudo science, and I consider myself pretty forgiving in that respect.

AND THEN ... they got out of the ship ... in a big geode ... that was filled with air. My hair is standing on end just thinking about it now - I think I might have laughed out loud when I first saw it.

[r6d2]

@nikthebak, dragongodz sort of convinced us of not touching ID some pages ago: :D

Originally posted by dragongodz
i wont go in to films like indipendance day which had so many holes in it they should have called it leaky bucket.

But yes, it is an absolutely unbuyable stuff. The Win32 stuff also proves that if you use Win32 on a mission critical application, you may get screwed. :D

On the Humanities major thing, yes, we are almost all sort of techies here. But that does not preclude us from finding interesting stuff too.

For instance, I wonder why most popular aliens are sort of man-like figures, though with variations. Or any other known species like insects, or gators, etc.

Why are script writers so unoriginal? if life existed somewhere else, why possibly should they look like us? Our body is well engineered, of course, but are we the only possibility?

(I once read that God must have been an engineer, since only an engineer would install a recreation facility besides a sewer system exit.) :)

Why aren't they much bigger, or much smaller? Why do they live on our same time scale? They might have, for instance, a much slower, or much faster metabolism. They might not be visible on our visible spectrum. They might even not be able to detect us...

So many unexplored variations...

[r6d2]

Originally posted by ppera2
I think that we don't need some numbers here. It's simple not possible to put 10 hours in 2 movie.If he was only going to make 2 movies, he would have not shot 10 hours. :)

BTW, numbers are good when supporting stuff. ;)
P.S. I just saw our avatars :) Normal that we started fight :D
This reminds me of Cats & Dogs, an excellent piece of work with animals.

Animals also have shown extraordinary abilities in the movies. Remember Gremlins? You surely think those were just muppets, right? Well... No! Gizmo was for real! :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

"Deep Throat"


........Need I say more!

[nikthebak]

Originally posted by r6d2
@nikthebak, dragongodz sort of convinced us of not touching ID some pages ago: :D


Okay, I didn't notice that :)

Yes, maybe it's better to just plain ignore ID4 because it's a pathological case. It's just that the "computer virus to aliens" scenario is the worst display of computer illiteracy I've ever seen. Yuck.

Whenever someone hacks into Pentagon/CIA/FBI mainframe virtually just by typing "hack pentagon" (and "download files") into his laptop, I feel pretty sick. But those regular, everyday Pentagon hacks are nothing compared to the ID4 stunt. It's just totally off the charts, unbelievable that someone actually wrote something like that and didn't get fired and/or shot in the head instantly. Even Star Trek's "unsolvable geometric shape" is a LOT better than that.

It seems that when a Hollywood writer starts to spew out computer fiction, everything turns crazy. Down go all computer science, rational logic, and even common sense, everything is possible. Making of the movie costs millions of dollars, and yet no one bothers to do even a little bit of research on what's even remotely possible. And this applies for other fields of knowledge too; geography, culture, language, history, philosophy, psychology, everything.

The only place you can find even semi-decent computer fiction are games, and that's because game programmers know pretty much about computers, because they are game programmers.

Let me proceed to the "ntb Comp-Fi Rule #1":

Only people with ten or more solid years of programming and hardware experience should be allowed to write computer fiction.

Sounds cruel but it's the only way to make the pain stop :devil:

Okay, having said all that, there is one exception. I consider the "deposit the rounding error to my account" hack from Office Space (and Superman III) very believable. I wonder was it really done for real back in the 70's? In times when non-programmers couldn't possibly imagine a thing like that.

[smok3]

interesting thread, btw, there is a half-belivable story about the making/scaling of the tech used in lotr here:
http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=1883
(shortly, it wasnt really a linear proces, they had to redo/reinvent lots of stuff for the 3rd part)

about terminator, why the machines didnt send something like killer-car for example? (would be hard to detect with some morphing abilites), or in matrix i still dont get why they just dint kill all the people and use cows instead, iam sure it wouldnt be that hard to generate big green surface for the virtual enviroment for those..

and a lil comic i remember from somewhere:
two cows sitting in a cinema watching horror movie - something about vampires, and one cow says to another: "they come back from the grave to drink the milk of the living".

[adam]

Originally posted by smok3
or in matrix i still dont get why they just dint kill all the people and use cows instead, iam sure it wouldnt be that hard to generate big green surface for the virtual enviroment for those..

Not a bad point. Assuming it could be done with humans, (only in the movies) any large lifeform should work. But maybe all major lifeforms except humans and cockroaches died when the humans blacked out the sun? There's also some poetic justice in enslaving your enemy, and according to some of the scenes in Revolutions, the machines actually might think like that.

The Mootrix might not make such a bad fan film. "Moo" really isn't that far from "Whoa" and look what that did for Keanu.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
"Deep Throat"

........Need I say more!
LOL... :D :D :D

[r6d2]

It is worth to note that horror movies typically are more a comedy than anything else. I have had a hard time getting scared by a horror movie. A very notorious exception is The Ring (the remake). Also The Blair Witch's project, but man, I got really, and I mean really scared when I watched The Ring.

I've been thinking a lot about what does that movie have which makes it so different from all the others.

I think the most scary scenes were those shot clips or flashes that showed something terrible, but were short enough to not giving you time to think "oh, it's a trick". So you just end up jumping on your seat with the sensation of something weird surrounding you.

I'm about to watch Ringu (the original) one of these days, to see if it produces the same effect.

[dragongodz]

"It is worth to note that horror movies typically are more a comedy than anything else. I have had a hard time getting scared by a horror movie."
this is really more prevelant nowdays of course. go back to the horrors made in say the 70,s and 80's and the majority are straight horrors. nowdays it seems people either expect or need the comedy to break the tension up.

"I think the most scary scenes were those shot clips or flashes that showed something terrible, but were short enough to not giving you time to think "oh, it's a trick". So you just end up jumping on your seat with the sensation of something weird surrounding you."
agreed. of course some older movies also did that for budget reasons(cheap crappy monsters). nowdays its "look at the cool fx, we spent millions for this 1 minute piece of footage".

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dragongodz
this is really more prevelant nowdays of course. go back to the horrors made in say the 70,s and 80's and the majority are straight horrors.
Yes, I agree. Scary Movie seems to be the final proof. However, I never got scared with pure 80's horror like Jason or Freddy anyway. On the 70's I got scared with Jaws, but I was too young then, so it does not count I guess. :)
nowdays it seems people either expect or need the comedy to break the tension up.
Interesting. Never looked at it that way. Me, if looking for comedy I'd rather go with Friends or Seinfeld instead.
of course some older movies also did that for budget reasons(cheap crappy monsters).
Remember Frankenstein's bride? :)
nowdays its "look at the cool fx, we spent millions for this 1 minute piece of footage".
You know, when I first watched Jurassic Park I just could not believe my eyes. I thought: "These guys can do anything now", and I foresaw a personal inability to be amazed again by a special effect.

My prediction turned into a fact in my case. When I see Gollum from LOTR, I think we are close to the day of watching Humphrey Bogart again on the silver screen, any minute now.

[Cyberman]

Originally posted by echooff
I always liked the world they traveled to in Stargate. Sand and dust as far as the eye could see. Where did all the food and water come from to sustain the population. How about all of the fires burning in Armegeddon after the shuttle crashed on the asteroid. Fire with no oxygen?

Well, if I´d drop you in the middle of the Sahara, you wouldn´t belive there´s any food or water anywhere, yet it´s only a part of our world. And even there we have water and plants. Even animals.

As for Armageddon: perhaps it came from the shuttle itself? AFAIK they´re using oxygen/hydrogen for propulsion(at least in space, where they don´t need that much power).

[dragongodz]

"if looking for comedy I'd rather go with Friends or Seinfeld instead."
yes but i mean they seem to use comedy when tension starts to build, almost like they are frightened to scare people too much. :)

"Remember Frankenstein's bride?"
oh the horror....indeed.

"I foresaw a personal inability to be amazed again by a special effect."
i am afraid i suffer that problem aswell.

"I never got scared with pure 80's horror like Jason or Freddy anyway"
well i agree somewhat but the first friday the 13th was pretty good and original. also dont forget the first 2 halloween movies. probably throw in the first poltergeist aswell to a smaller degree. :D

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Cyberman
they´re using oxygen/hydrogen for propulsion(at least in space, where they don´t need that much power).
This reminds me of another faux pas on the Sci-Fi arena. I cannot remember the name of the movie, but it is about a guy who is supposed to travel alone on his ship to another planet with a bag of vaccines to help on a huge epidemics.

When he has already left, the computer warns him that there is some excess luggage on the ship. He searches and finds an unexpected extra passenger: a girl who wanted to see her only brother on that planet, and managed to get unnoticed into the ship.

The guy receives a “direct order” to get rid of the extra load, or the ship won’t have enough fuel to reach its destination.

Obviously, he refuses because of compassion. He and the girl try to solve the problem in another way: dump everything not strictly needed. They cannot dump the vaccines, for obvious reasons. They rip the ship apart, which takes them hours. They manage to dump an amount of weight similar to that of the girl.

Happy with his duty, the commander checks the computer again. But guess what... The computer says it still needs to cut some more weight. How come?

Well, according to the computer, the extra weight they had to release the first time was considering an immediate dump. Since the journey had taken some hours already, they had consumed more fuel than expected during that time.

I won’t tell you the ending of the movie, but that scriptwriter was not aware that ships in space don’t use up any fuel whatsoever, they move in a straight line along their path. Since there is no friction, there is also no speed loss (or gain).

Fuel is only needed for the changes in direction, and on a long trip like this one you can minimize that for sure, particularly because empty space is really empty, there are no stars to skip or planets to avoid. (Two galaxies can cross their paths without a single contact of their contents.)

So this scriptwriter in question did not even know Galileo’s laws of motion! :D

And not only that: there is no such a thing like "weight" on a ship in space. The weight is always zero! :D:D:D

[Wolfman]

Since there is no friction, empty space is really empty Both of these statements are'nt true as even interstellar space has some Gas in it. The amount of friction is almost undetetectable tho. Space is not a Vacuum. just 99.99% of a vacuum.

"Scientists have long theorized that a shock wave exists where the hot solar wind bumps up against the thin gas of the interstellar medium. A similar shock wave precedes aircraft flying faster than the speed of sound, causing a sonic boom."

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/11/05/voyager.solar.boundary.ap/

[Kedirekin]

That story is based on the short story The Cold Equation by Tom Godwin.

I can't speak for the screen adaptation, but the short story is pretty solid science wise. The ship is under a tight time constraint to reach its destination to stave off an epidemic. The ship is already stripped to the bare to get there in time (nothing to jettison), and taking off with a stow-away has used all of the safety margin. As I recall, in the short story the girl records a farewell message for her brother and bravely steps into the air lock. It's quite heart rending.

It's the time constraint that buttons it up. You need a certain amount of fuel to get a certain mass up to a certain speed so you can get there in time. Increase the mass by 50 kilograms, and suddenly that amount of fuel is no longer enough to get you there in time.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Both of these statements are'nt true as even interstellar space has some Gas in it.
Hm... Well, you are technically right. In fact, according for instance to this (http://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/tof/Outreach/Interstellar/index.html?what1.html) page, the interstellar space density is about 1 atom per cubic centimeter. I guess you can consider that, for all practical purposes, quite non-existent friction. :)
Space is not a Vacuum. just 99.99% of a vacuum.
In terms of volume, 1 atom of the most "ubiquitous" element in space (hydrogen) occupies only 1 preceded by 16 zeros percent of a cubic centimeter. So, space is 99.9…lots of nines…9% vacuum.
The amount of friction is almost undetetectable tho.
Of course, and any friction undetectable is absolutely negligible and does not slow down the ship.

Another interesting fact about emptyness, if you look closely into the atom you'll find that the ratio of the H atom's size to the proton size is 10^5. If the proton was the size of the Earth, the electron would be as far as 4 times the distance to the Sun. So, you can see that matter itself is made of a lot of empty space. :D
Originally posted by Kedirekin
It's the time constraint that buttons it up.
The way you put it absolutely makes sense. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion) link is related to that. I’ll look for the reference you quote, looks interesting.

BTW, you spoiled the movie! :D:D:D

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dragongodz
the first poltergeist aswell Agreed. Good stuff. Also the prophecies.

BTW, I watched Ringu the other night. I don't know if it was because I had already been to The Ring, but it did not produce the same effect. However, the scene when the girl comes out from the TV is very well achieved IMHO. Man, she was ugly!

Speaking about terror, don't forget suspense. I just watched Identity. An interesting movie where 10 people find themselves in a roadside hotel on a rainy night, completely isolated. Somewhat connected to "I know what you did last summer", the ending is very surprising and convincing. I liked it.

[Wolfman]

dont say anymore its on the "to-watch list"!
.R6d2.. yes I wz 2 lz 2 type 'tall :cool: Plus I think even 1 atom would slow a spaceship a little little bit.

KILL BILL IS A TRUE STORY

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
dont say anymore its on the "to-watch list"!OK, so @Kedirekin, you've heard already... Don't post that the butler did it! :D

@Wolfman, will this movie atom refrain you from watching it? :D

Just kidding, there is no butler.

[wmansir]

I just saw Along Came a Spider and I have to say it has some of the worst plot hole I have seen in a movie.


SPOILERS (for a horrible movie)
.
.
.
.
Ok, the First we have the "criminal(ly insane) mastermind" who kidnaps a senators daughter. How does he do this? Easy.

Step 1. Become a master of disguise. Were not talking bad wig and an eye patch, but full body padding suit, fake beard, wig, mustache and facial skin appliances. And these have to be good enough so you can wear them 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week in very close contact with others without anyone noticing.

Step 2. Get the (forged?) credentials to be hired at a top tier prep school in Washington AND get by a Secret Service/FBI background check (with your disguised look).

Step 3. Become an excellent teacher. Why? So you don't get fired during step 4.

Step 4. Spend TWO YEARS monitoring your target(s) by pretending to be their excellent teacher, while in makeup.

Step 4a. Thank God you have the summers off, that body suit would kill you.

Now here's were the real genius comes in to play.

Step 5. Instead of kidnapping your primary target (who is also a student of yours, and would be just as easy to kidnap). Kidnap his friend.

Step 6. After every teacher/parent/security personnel/secret service/FBI/Cop are on their toes because one of the kids has just been kidnapped, secretly contact your primary target, posing as the friend, and lure him out of his heavily secured mansion. Be sure and tell him "don't trust anyone" so he doesn't tell his dad or anything.

Step 7. Dress as a cop, then kill a couple of on-duty cops in their patrol car and use the cops' car to kidnap the primary target. But DON'T remove the cop's body from the passenger's seat, even though he has a big hole were his face was. Just drive around with his body in plain sight for fun.



(I'll have to continue this post tommorrow. The cough medicine I just took is kicking my *** and I'm about to pass out.)

[dragongodz]

"I just watched Identity."
"the ending is very surprising and convincing."

hmm ye it wasnt bad but the very very end was rather predictable i thought, well i predicted it anyway once it was clear what was going on. :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by wmansir
I just saw Along Came a Spider and I have to say it has some of the worst plot hole I have seen in a movie.Man, you have not watched XXX I guess... :)

I went to the movies the other night. 21 grams. González Iñáritu is coming into my favourite director short list along with Tarantino (my top 1), Cameron and Spielberg.

The movie is very interesting. Some critics say he is repeating the formula of "Amores Perros", but I don't think so.

The movie has some of the Memento effects, but much lighter (similar to what is done in Identity).

You had to concentrate heavily or you won't get it. It seems I was too distracted with the popcorn bag because my wife got the keys much earlier than I did. It is worth to note that my wife did "tilt" at Memento, so I congratulated her a lot.

I usually have trouble getting my wife to understand my own stories when they have some of these racontos and flashbacks, so I'm trying to learn the Iñaritu technique to improve my writing.

There is another movie I've heard which uses some of these effects, Irreversible. Anyone has seen it yet?

[crusty]

ROFLMAO @ this topic!

LOL...people this is a fun topic really!

Anyway when it comes to 'hardest to swallow' I guess there are some that just stick 'head and shoulders' above the rest....

How about 'Battlefield Earth'? I mean it's just amazing.

You have a bunch of planet-of-the-apes like humans being completely subjugated by aliens. Then all of a sudden they are overthrown because basically one human got smart. LOL!

And if that isn't enough, how about these:

-Library of congress still has books after 1000 years of weathering, in fact it would be highly unlikely the damn place would even be erect after 10 centuries...

-Humans with less technical know-how not only learn to fly Harrier Jets in less than a week, they also become good enough to win.

And there are plenty of other little 'technicalities' in this movie that make it a must-see for the people in this topic..LOL.

Anyway here are some other thoughts....

@Sound in space:
If a ship or weapon in space would distort space-time itself, wouldn't that create sound to the human ear if the distortion shockwave would reach the human ear, or the hull of the vessel that the human is in?

@Computers and films:
That's why the term 'Hollywood OS' came into existence in the first place. It's basically the way computers work in hollywood movies:
They do what is written in the script in clearly visible and obvious way (so the public can understand) and all the actors have to do is type in some random charachters ormove the mouse a bit and the computer will go to the next scripted phase.

@Time travel & Planets revolving:
In theory you could compute the difference in space as well as time and compensate for that, if you also had some way of space travel.
In fact, some theories suggest that time travel would always be linked to some means of space travel.

The aliens' computer runs either on Windows or some system that executes Win32 object code.
Well nobody's perfect...Bill Gates is everywhere. :D :D :D

I remember watching ID4 with 30 people @ my student society....afterwards everybody came out with an incredulous smile thinking along the lines 'Somebody actually MADE this movie??'.
Only people with ten or more solid years of programming and hardware experience should be allowed to write computer fiction.
Naahh....wouldn't be 'fiction' then would it?More like 'FACTion'...
:)

or in matrix i still dont get why they just dint kill all the people and use cows instead, iam sure it wouldnt be that hard to generate big green surface for the virtual enviroment for those..
Yeah, or use bacteria or something. Even with something like a matrix, people would still fail because of two things that are scientificly proven:
-Humans need light to stay happy....proven by experience in arctic weather/sciencestations and submarines.
-The human brain can detect natural light right through the skull (just like many other animals).

Considering more 'plausible' films, I found 'The Thing' reasonably plausible...just a few bits and bobs that weren't sound, but as a whole pretty credible.
AFAIK they´re using oxygen/hydrogen for propulsion(at least in space, where they don´t need that much power).
That could very well be the cause of those fires, but they would be extinguished very quickly.
And that combination is not a weak power source really. That combination is very explosive, comparably to some proper explosives.
Stick them together andyou've got a Very Nice Big Explosion (tm).
Remember the Challenger explosion?
So, you can see that matter itself is made of a lot of empty space
That's exactly the reason why some scientists consider it possible that under certain circumstances mass can travel through other mass.
And it's the premisse of "Honey I shrunk The Kids'. ;)

In the end a film is just a film...enjoy it if it's a good one, laugh about it if it's a bad one.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by crusty
If a ship or weapon in space would distort space-time itself, wouldn't that create sound to the human ear if the distortion shockwave would reach the human ear, or the hull of the vessel that the human is in?I don't really know (not been to space lately), but I don't think so. No matter how distorted empty space-time becomes, it is still empty and sound needs a medium to propagate itself.
In theory you could compute the difference in space as well as time and compensate for that, if you also had some way of space travel.The problem with this is that if time did not pass for Einstein during that minute, then he could not travel in space. You require the pass of time to move, and he was suspended in time. Remember d=V*t. No t, no d.
-Humans need light to stay happy....proven by experience in arctic weather/sciencestations and submarines.Agreed, but remember that all your senses are connected to the computer, so the computer fakes sunlight for you. The leit motif of the movie is that you cannot tell a difference. "No one can tell you what the matrix is, you have to see it for yourself".
That's exactly the reason why some scientists consider it possible that under certain circumstances mass can travel through other mass.You mean like galaxies, which can cross each other indisturbed? Interesting, never heard that before. Do you have an URL to check on that?

[Wolfman]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Humans need light to stay happy....proven by experience in arctic weather/sciencestations and submarines.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We already have artificial sunlight halogen lights ... I think they may have that worked out. sound cannot propagate in a vacumum but maybe waves of distortion can. Galaxies do not pass thru each other undisturbed .. they rip each other to shreds. Battlefield Earth..First Dvd I ever bought.. the thing? v good film. "Honey I blah blah", kids films.
EXterminate Exterminate..oh no they have gone up a flight of stairs!! exterminate!:rolleyes:

[vhelp]

Well, for me, as long as I go to the movies, I can be scared. Maybe
not as scared as walking in a smelling bathroom in a gas station, but..

I remember seeing Friday the 13th, back in '79 in the thearters.
Boy, did that scare me some. Oh, and Holloween I was another
one!! Like, every time I see the scene where the little boy walks
around the corner, and bumps into M.Meyers - - sheesh.. the music is
chilling.

But, those kinds of movies they don't make any mores. It's really
hard to make them ("originally" speaking) because we've all become so
synthasized to the "same'oll same'oll" scenario. But, every once in
a while, they come out w/ an originality plot.
.
.
Take for instance, Jeepers Creepers the first movie. That one
always gets to me in the opening scene, where they drivers (mr. creeper)
is tailing Darel (spelling) and he goes banannas because it just couldn't
figure out that the Mr. Creeper was not trying to get ahead of him, but
rather trying to "bait" him for "fear".. the start of this chilling
movie !! I love it.
.
.
I was dissapointed that the same Girl (character) was not inthe 2nd one,
of which I didn't even know exhisted unbtill I heard of it on vcdhelp
a month ago or so. I was shocked. But, the 2nd one (though I haven't
see it yet, but have the DVD now) leaves me wondering how good it is.
I have my doublts, but that's ok.

-vhelp

[diogo6]

@r6d2

Irreversible is definitely worth watching... very shocking scene/plot...

[dragongodz]

"The problem with this is that if time did not pass for Einstein during that minute, then he could not travel in space."
ah but what if time did pass ? just a microsecond. when you see michael j fox travel back you are in car and see a white flash before he arrives in the past. now that white flash takes time, tiny true but still real. :D

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dragongodz
but what if time did pass ? just a microsecond.To cover a distance of 1800 km in 1 microsecond you need to run 6,000 times faster than speed of light, which as you know is not possible.

If we consider the flash takes not 1 microsecond but 6 milliseconds, then "only" speed of light is needed, but then Einstein´s mass would be infinite (http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=56).

Those flashes you saw are just special FX, they are not part of the time travelling mechanism. :)

@diogo6, already on the list. Thanks for the tip.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Galaxies do not pass thru each other undisturbed .. they rip each other to shreds.If you take gravity into consideration, yes. You may want to check this (http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/JavaLab/GalCrashWeb/main.html) simulator. But as far as density goes, they might pass through each other undisturbed.

[r6d2]

Just watched Alien again, with the eyes of this thread. Now, why was Ash sleeping like all the others when they were woken up by the computer, since he was a droid?

Do droids need some sleeping too? T2 did not. Remember the scene where he stays awake all night long while Sarah and John sleep at the gas station?

[dragongodz]

"Those flashes you saw are just special FX, they are not part of the time travelling mechanism."
YOU LIE,ITS ALL REAL. :D
please give me some credit, of course its fx but what i was trying to show was that movies are a visual medium and as such not every fact is said. some(most ?) ideas are displayed and left for people to try and understand.

but to settle this so we can move on, yes it is actually a mistake. Bob Gale said in a clip(think it was making of) on the dvd that they based the time travel off H.G. Wells "The Time Machine" and used its rules. that is you can travel in time but not space(distance). he even went so far as to say he had seen other movies violate that rule. violate ? obviously he has been in both a science and science fiction bubble.
Isaac Asimov even said he had to keep updating his Lucky Starr books because science kept proving old theories(which he used in these old books written to encourage science in young readers) wrong.

"why was Ash sleeping like all the others when they were woken up by the computer, since he was a droid?"
conservation of power supply ? just putting forward a possible reason before you jump all over that aswell. ;)

[Limey]

Ash was really awake all the time, just a laying there dreaming electric dreams, it was just a cunning plan to fool the humans into thinking he was human, see? Almost worked until he started squirting 2% out of his head, dead give away.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Limey
to fool the humans into thinking he was humanOK, I get it. But he also ate. What happened with the food afterwards?

[Limey]

Hmmm, had to think about that one, but the answers so obvious can't believe I missed it. Ash needed 'food'to supply his internal fusion reactor, the reactor broke down the food into constituate atoms and converted them into heat energy, simple really, all the best droids wouldn't be seen without the very latest reactor you know.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Limey
all the best droids wouldn't be seen without the very latest reactor you know.So T3 powered by mere batteries would not qualify him on the "best droids" category I guess. :)

[Soulhunter]

Hmm, the Terminator is made of steel... Ash is made of something like synthetic flesh, he also has some sort of blood! So my conclusion... The Terminator works more the "mechanical" way, but Ash works in a "biological" way... So, he is a synthetic human!

But I have a question to T3... How did the T-X see where to drive, when it controlled the police cars in the pursuit? Satellites maybe? One more question... When the T1000 and the T-X where fully fluid, where does its energy come from?


Bye

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Ash worked much more a "biological" way...According to Bishop, from Alien II (aka Aliens), it was a very unstable model, discontinued for the same reason. Bishop was a whole new story, rebuilt from scratch 57 years later.

Anyway, by comparing the Terminator and Alien series, you can see that the droids built by the machines are quite better than those built by humans! :)
How did the T-X see where to drive, when it controlled the police cars in the pursuit?Based on the 3D images they've made from mars, I can think of how to do this if you have line of sight. But I'm not sure if TX had line of sight throughout all the pursuit. I don't think so. I'd have to watch that scene again.
When the T1000 and the T-X where fully fluid, where does its energy come fromSolar maybe? But the'd need batteries to save some for the night... :confused: Liquid batteries doesn't sound like something that might be built... Or does it?

[MemeX]

great thread, on my way home I though of an explaination for this:

Originally posted by Kedirekin
Where did all the extra mass go? There are tons of movies with transformations like this. I thought League of Extraordinary Gentlemen got it right..

Lets say if this person was able to transform his body or change his appearance or what ever, lets say he can, under those means of ability he could change the mass of his body and size despite the size and mass of his "human" shape..for example he transforms into a single bat, the extra mass that's not needed could just transform into air, or dust or uranium or what ever. When he transforms back he would just take the atoms of the air around him, or the dust, add an electron, proton and neutron here and there and transform back into his "noraml" human shape. There ya go! If he can transform into a different shape, he will need to be able to rearange the struktur, fuse and change the atoms for the new "body" and you can't say he can't make the obsolite atoms into air/dust, or take any other mass around him to build a larger body.

MemeX

ps: I know he'd need a lot of air to get the mass together for a body.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by MemeX
I know he'd need a lot of air to get the mass together for a body.Well, actually he does not need lots of mass. He just needs enough energy. E = m*c^2 IMHO explains both transformations, the missing mass is converted into energy, and vice versa.

[MemeX]

Originally posted by r6d2
Well, actually he does not need lots of mass. He just needs enough energy. E = m*c^2 IMHO explains both transformations, the missing mass is converted into energy, and vice versa.

I'm not quite sure if that would explain it in my example. As I understand E is stored everywhere around you. Alone the engery that fusion releases for that small mass is amazingly much, and you don't have to use that much energy to get it started. But how can you convert the mass from "missing mass" by taking Energy and timse it by the speed of light squared. If that works then you could get yourself a pack of energy, compress it to a spot by what ever means of ability and end up with a chunk of gold. That makes me quesiton the relativity theory. There seems to be missing a factor (maybe mystic will power)in that forumla..

if E = m*c^2 then M should be M = c^2/E, right? (please correct me, it's been a while in physics)

MemeX

[Wolfman]

E = m*c^2 IMHO explains both transformations, the missing mass is converted into energy, and vice versa.
This unfortunately is what also drives a nuclear reaction ..the total conversion of mass into energy. V large hole in plot.
if E = m*c^2 then M should be M = c^2/E, right Hmm Steven 2brains Hawkins cant solve that one.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
This unfortunately is what also drives a nuclear reactionRemember a nuclear reaction can be safely controlled and used, so don't panic. Not every vampire would be a potential Chernobyll. :)
if E = m*c^2 then M should be M = c^2/E, right?Nope. m = E/c^2. It's not physics where it's been a while. It's in algebra! :D

The meaning of that equation is that if you want to produce m mass, you need E energy, and vice versa. So you see it's a huge amount of energy...

[Kedirekin]

Whether converting to air or to energy in the typical transformation duration, I see a huge explosion, or at least a hurricane of wind. And the other way is just as bad - either everything in a wide vicinity gets very close to absolute zero or you get an implosion sufficient to flatten buildings.

Converting to a solid or a liquid and back again is more workable, except that you never see anything like that during a transformation.

I guess I shouldn't complain though. Transformations are more mystical that scientific - and magicians make things disappear into thin air all the time.

[MemeX]

Originally posted by r6d2
Nope. m = E/c^2. It's not physics where it's been a while. It's in algebra! :D damn, i really need fresh up on algebra :) I knew when I tried to reformulate it, but i thought i might have just gotten it right..i thought wrong.

[Wolfman]

Why do the baddies in westerns always have to warn people... whats with the "Lets have a shootout in the main street".. why not get 3 men and shoot him/her in the back, down a dark Alley when they arent expecting it. Good guy shoots 3 bad guys at 30 yARDS, bad guys 10 yards away merely manage to "wing" the good guy, who always recovers from his shoulder wound, when before antseptics any wound would enatil a long lingering death from gangrene.

Helldrivers(B/w)... fastest Lorry drivers in the business!! Put schumacher/Andretti to shame..

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Why do the baddies in westerns always have to warn people... whats with the "Lets have a shootout in the main street"..Good point. I guess this has to do with it being "allowed" to shoot in self defence, so if the bad guy took the weapon from the holster first, and the good guy managed to kill him anyway, he's clean. That's why it was very important to be the fastest with the gun in town.
Good guy shoots 3 bad guys at 30 yARDS, bad guys 10 yards away merely manage to "wing" the good guyWell, he was good! :D:D:D

[r6d2]

Originally posted by diogo6
Irreversible is definitely worth watching... very shocking scene/plot... Very shocking indeed! The fight scene at the gay pub was bearable, but the one at the tunnel was too much for me.

Anyway, good plot. IMHO the story unfolds interestingly after the first 20 minutes. Before that I was completely lost.

P.S.: Only thing is next time those French film makers should hire a sober cameraman. :)

[MemeX]

Actually, because of my physics background I'm quite convinced that reverse time travel is impossible (unlike the forward one). But that's not the point.

I'm also the opinion time travel backward isn't possible, but time travel in the future is, although not in the cool way with spinning machines that get you there in 1 second. If it where possible to freeze somebody and keep him like that for 3000 years, and wake him up etc., would you still call it time travel?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by MemeX
would you still call it time travel? Yes, I think that's pretty much the way time travel to the future can be achieved.

I also have a theory of my own, but it has several holes yet which make it unsuitable for printing. :)

[iradic]

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[r6d2]

Originally posted by crusty
@Computers and films:
That's why the term 'Hollywood OS' came into existence in the first place. It's basically the way computers work in hollywood movies.This reminds me of No Way Out (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093640/). A computer is left unattended sharpening a photograh of the presumed suspect of murderer of Sean Young (Kevin Costner). The computer, by some sort of magic filtering, and after several hours, is able to reveal beyond any reasonable doubt, who the man portrayed is. :D

Maybe that movie is where @mf got the idea for his great toon filters. :D:D:D

[StrawMan]

When I first watched No Way Out I noticed that Costner runs up from some subway (it's suppsed to be but isn't the Metro) up onto M street where the Metro doesn't even come close to.

[Wilbert]

A computer is left unattended sharpening a photograh of the presumed suspect of murderer of Sean Young (Kevin Costner). The computer, by some sort of magic filtering, and after several hours, is able to reveal beyond any reasonable doubt, who the man portrayed is. :)
That also irritates me as hell. Happens with many detective / crime investigator series.

A blurred photograph (or video) of someone (so blurried, that you almost can't see whether it is a man or a guy): Could you sharpen it a bit (says someone to the police guy)? Yes, of course ... He starts to sharpen the video. Suddenly all kind of details become visible. Could you zoom in here (pointing to something what's supposed to be his face)? Of course ... The investigator starts zooming in (due to some miracle the picture stays sharp). After a while his face is completely visible, and they know who it is.

I hate that :devil: :devil: :devil:

[MemeX]

ah, but maybe the guy in charge of the video and picture optimising downsamples the picture first, if he showed the original he'd might lose his job, since the quality is already there, he'd be fired..a good example on how efficient the state uses our tax money.

[r6d2]

This Hollywood OS thing made me think of a possible companion: the Hollywood CPU. I recall that in a scene of T1, where the camera looks through its eyes, you know, that red thing, you can see the assembly code in a column at the left. It is a 6502 CPU!

For those too young to remember, the 6502 was the hart of the glorious Atari computers (and also some Commodores and early Apples, which used also a derivative, the 65C02). That was the time when Motorola used to dominate the microcomputer business. :)

So, we have that in 2029 when the machines dominate the world, the only surviving processor is an 8-bit CPU with no floating point unit, a 64KB address space, and a single register A as accumulator plus 2 index registers X and Y, which on top of that, could not address more than a 256 byte page. The stack was limited to 256 bytes too.

Anyway, I grew up coding 6502 assembler and I did some very interesting stuff (like floating point math routines). Probably one of the designers on the movie crew was an Atari fan too, so he made that small tribute.

[Wolfman]

6502 also used in the BBC micro.. great machine for its time..Thats when I gave up trying to learn assembler..or even handcrafting machine code. Also I think that the picture sharpening thing was first done in Blade runner.

[Soulhunter]

Time to to resuscitate this grandiose thread... ;)

Interesting article about time traveling here (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0004226A-F77D-1D4A-90FB809EC5880000)& here (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s428595.htm)!!!


Bye

[smok3]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Also I think that the picture sharpening thing was first done in Blade runner. nope, it was a microfilm scanner i belive... (but iam not sure really), wasnt the cpu in c64 -> 6510?

[Flexy]

Originally posted by smok3
nope, it was a microfilm scanner i belive... (but iam not sure really), wasnt the cpu in c64 -> 6510?

6510: C64
6502 was in VIC20 and in C64 Floppy and some older Commodore Comps like PET.
Just looked it up. Embarassing. Had a C64 for years and was not sure whether it's CPU was a 6502 or 6510 :)

Funny thing with the terminator assembly code btw :)

That's like in Star Trek:TOS...they all live in the future and do intergalactic space travel - but their furniture is all from the 60s :)

And..another funny note....i had to realize that my wife's cellphone is *definetly* MORE advanced and looks 'cooler' then any communicator in any of the Star Trek series :)

My favorite (back to this subject):

Some SciFi move.
It's the future.
Computers are INCREDIBLE powerful.
Indeed so powerful they develop their own 'consciousnes' and know answers to anything.
But then they start TALKING, and the voice is all distorted 'electronic' and robot-like because the voice synthesis just plain sucks :)

[Joe Fenton]

Lots of stuff covering topics new and old...

The CPU in the C64 (6510) is just a normal 6502 with a built-in port. The C64 used that port to control certain functions of the computer. Atari XE models used a similar chip.

I time travel every day... I climb in bed, close my eyes, and POOF! It's instantly morning. :D

Neutron bombs generate large quantities of neutrons (hence the name). These neutrons disrupt biological material while leaving inorganic material mostly unaffected. They don't penetrate the ground worth a damn and wouldn't have been useful in Starship Troopers.

Sound in space, along with explosions, could be an radio effect. Ships using ion propulsion would generate an electromagnetic signal that could be heard through receivers in other ships. Similar explanation for explosions. Think of it like hearing lightning through your AM radio from too far away to hear the physical thunder itself.

Star Trek time travel is really funny - be sure you go around the Sun the correct way: counter-clockwise to go back in time, and clockwise to go forward. :D

Some of the best realism in space is in 2001: A Space Oddyssey. No sound, the stars don't wizz by, all motion is in straight lines between attitude adjustments. Also note the part where Dave crosses over to the ship through a vacuum. He doesn't expand and pop like a balloon (one of the biggest fallacies in movies).

That was one of the funny parts of Total Recall. Mars has an atmosphere to begin with. It's just pretty thin and almost completely nitrogen. Even if it was a vacuum, you still wouldn't blow up like in the few scenes where this occurs. Another major snafu in Total Recall was where Arnold was using the guy's body as a shield against those high-powered handguns. The bullets would have passed through that body rather easily.

However, I always go with the saying "Don't let science stand in the way of good science fiction." If it's a good story, I can overlook some bad science, however, good science won't save a bad story. Besides, bad science just gives us more to talk about later when discussing the movie. :D

[Mug Funky]

ah yes, i see "insultingly stupid movie physics" has been posted here...

apart from the image sharpening. in bladerunner there's actually some kind of phase information recorded in the film and Harrison can see a suspect even though you could have sworn there was a door in front of them. although, credit to bladerunner in that the photo he got out of it after that farce wasn't a perfect actor's mugshot like you get in CSI.

CSI started with good science, but i gave up on it when that guy died from his mobile phone going off too close to his car's fuel cap. somebody give the writers the nobel prize :rolleyes:

Battlefield Earth? i never saw that after i learnt who wrote it. no fekking way. L Ron Hubbard was a mad bastard.

generally bad science/thin plots, etc don't bother me unless they're so glaring that they distract from the movie. if a movie is made well enough you'll suspend disbelief at least until you're done watching it.

with the matrix, i sat through it and was enthralled and gobsmacked by the effects, the story, the action, etc. it was only when the credits rolled and i was walking out of the cinema that i though to myself "if they feed the dead to the living, there must by a net decrease in total energy, as no system is 100% efficient, so the human farms were completely unsustainable and pointless". they covered this by having morpheus say "combined with a form of fusion, the machines had found all the power they would ever need". if they've got fusion what need is there of human power? to say nothing of the energy required to keep the matrix working... no machine is that stupid.

but it's a comic book story, and one must expect a bit of nonsense. i forgive it because it didn't spoil my enjoyment of the movie.

[r6d2]

I recently watched Event Horizon. The starship had a "built in black hole", user controlled. The black hole took the ship towards itself into another dimension. It came back afterwards, but alive. :D Give me a break... :sly:

About plots that don't close the circle... The 6th Day (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0216216/)... Maybe I did not get the point, but let's see the facts:

1. Arnie (Adam Gibson) and Michael Rapaport (Hank Morgan), switched roles and thus Rapaport was in the place were Arnie should have been and gets killed by mistake.

2. Tony Goldwyn (Michael Drucker) clones Rapaport to fix the mistake. Arnie was supposed to be alive and well, so why does he also clone Arnie, if he'd send the tough guys go to kill the Arnie clone anyway?

OK, let's assume I did not get it. They cloned Arnie first, and then they noticed the killed one was Rapaport. In this case it makes sense to go after the Arnie clone, but then again, why bother to clone Rapaport?

According to the story, cloning costs a fair amount of money, so why fix the Rapaport mistake?

You can say, well, if the guy had a life, why not give it back to him? So Goldwyn was a good guy after all? But what kind of life did clones had in that world? They could not even have assets of their own, they were plain "merchandise".

Ah, but the point is then... To lose their assets it was needed to reveal he was a clone, which was done by looking at the "version number" inside the right eye. There was no other way to tell.

But then again, why did they put that mark in the first place, if they wanted to get away with it?

I cannot close the circle. If some of you can, please let me know. I'm intrigued.

[easybeat]

Actually after watching Event Horizon my friend and I decide to rename it "Non-Event Horizon".

:)