open standard vs. closed format discussion (be aware sometimes childish)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bilu
What's ME/CFS?

Bilu Well I'm really tempted to say 'use the search key' But I don't think you will find very much about it in the forum :D

CFS is 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' I just feel tired most of the time and don't posses very much strength to do anything, including concentrating on things for any length of time.

It's a real pisser, as I used to be quite a fit, well travelled bloke, with both a good work and home life!

Anyway, this post is seriously off topic. I wonder if bond will be tempted to start another thread :rolleyes:

Thanks for asking,

Cheers

EDIT: I don't believe it! bond has changed my thread title. It would have been nice to have been asked. He's showing off again with those fast fingers :(

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Anyway, this post is seriously off topic. I wonder if bond will be tempted to start another thread ;)

I don't believe it! bond has changed my thread title. It would have been nice to have been asked. He's showing off again with those fast fingersthe previous thread title was my creation too, your post itself didnt had a title :(

[mf]

Originally posted by Sirber
XviD fans won't like your saying about DIVX5..., coz it's someting DIVX can do and not XviD... watch out ;)
*COUGH* xvid_encraw
And a thing DivX5 can't do and XviD can: decode from the commandline: xvid_decraw :D.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
CFS is 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' I just feel tired most of the time and don't posses very much strength to do anything, including concentrating on things for any length of time.
Think it fits the definition for all young PPL I know... :D :D :D

Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Ha Ha. I know what you mean Soulhunter,

I have a 14 year old daughter, and there isn't a word yet (in any dictionary I have) that can accurately describe how lay she is!

Kids eh!

Cheers

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by bilu
http://www.mpegla.com/mpeg4v/m4v_qa.html

So open-source MPEG-4 binaries from XVID and FFMPEG are legal after all :)

Just don't forget that MPEG-LA is a company consortium, not a company that lives from video codecs as On2 or Real. Innovation has a cost. Or else we'd all be stuck to MPEG-LA forever.


Bilu

Folks I think we are getting off on a tangent. What was quoted in no way legalizes any encoder/decoder binaries. Simply it states that content compressed or decoded by such technologies if not sold or given compensation in exchange is free of royalties. If you make money from videos compressed with this technology you must pay royalties. I don't see how this can legalize binaries incorporating MPEG4 technology. There is no end to what can be compressed with MPEG4 and as such there is a large market for that. But in the world of encoders and decoders a single implementation that is open, free, and portable like Xvid or FFMpeg could basically destroy that market. It would not be bad for the users. But it would be bad for those who develop those technologies. As such they are not going to allow such things in the market.

[bilu]

You're right, I missed the point :)

[bond]

its also important to note that there are plenty people providing mpeg-4 binaries for free and afaik they never got any troubles

for example koepi hosts the xvid binaries (and xvid is surely known pretty good in the industry) and he is not sitting in brasil or russia where noone can find him, he is in germany

if mpeg would really fear that free mpeg-4 stuff would hurt the business they would have already stopped that i think

[bilu]

It's not a nice time to sue free MPEG-4 encoders yet :sly:
Only after MPEG-4 audience stops growing. For the moment the free MPEG-4 encoders are serving their purposes :sly:

"Can't" is different from "won't".

EDIT:
@bond

So we're back to the drawing board:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=425184#post425184

Bilu

[bond]

its not a question of wether an encoder is free or not (divx5 and 3ivx are free too) its a question of if you pay for the patents (and the even more important question is how much do you have to pay for the licenses)
also important is if you have to pay licenses to one company (like m$ selling their stuff) or to an industry wide organisation

but either way i doubt that they could ever make spreading xvid binaries impossible :D

[Neo Neko]

Simply put the Xvid group does not provide binaries because as a group and more importantly those responsible for the codecs development they would be a prime target for litigation in the event any were brought forth. Koepi and others provide binaries at their own risk. Which is rather slight because stamping out such actions is nearly impossible if not impossible in it's entirety. And ultimatly not I think in the interest of those who license the technologies. The fees they get from licensing of hardware encoders and decoders are far more per unit than software ones. And even in the software arena it is rather unlikely that they would control the market due to lack of advertising and general pulic awareness. So Xvid and ffdshow provide a usefull service to the licensers to get the format in common use and widely known.

[ChristianHJW]

I said this once already, but i gladly repeat it. MPEG2 licensing is a major bussiness right now, worth several million dollars. If anybody really thinks the MPEG-LA will simply say good-bye to this bussiness, just to defeat M$ with WMV and to please us folks, you are plain wrong.

If there is money earned, the people doing so will work hard to keep it that way, even if this means to have a certain period of time where they have to give things away for free, or for a much lower price, to defend their market.

MP4 licensing is pretty nice currently, no doubt. I am warning everybody out there to rely on the fact this may stay like this forever. MPEG-LA people will simply wait until it has wide gained support, and is established as the new standard, as they did with MPEG2 at that time. Once this is established, license shemes will change pretty quickly, right at the time when MPEG2 revenues will be less .....

[bond]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
[B]I said this once already, but i gladly repeat it. MPEG2 licensing is a major bussiness right now, worth several million dollars. If anybody really thinks the MPEG-LA will simply say good-bye to this bussiness, just to defeat M$ with WMV and to please us folks, you are plain wrong.
If there is money earned, the people doing so will work hard to keep it that way, even if this means to have a certain period of time where they have to give things away for free, or for a much lower price, to defend their market.well to me atm it seems more that mpeg is trying to do everything to make m$ win with its wm9 stuff

i only have to look at how many, even the crappiest low budget, players are already supporting wma9, and thats not because its such a superior nice format, in fact it was prooven that it is worse than aac
well and what does via licensing... aac still has to fight with licensing issues and also nobody has the idea to help hardware manufacturers implementing aac, like m$ does with its wm9 stuff

in fact i think a huge project like mpeg-2/4 is, with maybe hundreds of firms contributing their stuff to the standard (making it the hell most complete framework exisiting maybe) and having interest in it, i am sure its pretty hard to operate actively and quick in the market, like m$ can do

so i hope that this structural (not technical) problems will not result in having a worse technology, like wm9, win in the long run

i hope the dvd forum will choose h.264 to be used for hd-dvd and not wmv9!!!

MP4 licensing is pretty nice currently, no doubtas mp4 doesnt necessarily mean mpeg-4 i have to say that mp4 is license free :p ;)

[Nic]

As someone who has had face to face discussions with Larry Horn (Vice President of MPEG-LA) about matters like that which have been mentioned, i'll just clarfiy a minor point; It is not the MPEG-LA that will be chasing projects and license fees, they just offer a means for people to license MPEG technology. They "are not the police" as Larry Horn said to me. It is the holders of the MPEG patents who will enforce, if necessary the patents....

-Nic