BluRay to stop piracy

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by mf
Um, I mentioned less noise in the cinema than on the DVD? :D I think somebody's missing the point :rolleyes:. If you were referring to my most recent comment, I was merely responding to one of Soulhunters earlier questions (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=425915#post425915) regarding noisy cinema presentations!

Cheers

[mf]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
If you were referring to my most recent comment, I was merely responding to one of Soulhunters earlier questions (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=425915#post425915) regarding noisy cinema presentations!

Cheers
I think he meant that the noise visible in the cinemas is filtered out by WMV, which is only partly true. I've found Soulhunter likes to ask rhetoric questions like that :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by mf
I think he meant that the noise visible in the cinemas is filtered out by WMV, which is only partly true. I've found Soulhunter likes to ask rhetoric questions like that :D Ooooh, I'm lost now! Never mind....

Anyway. I would still like to know what HD image pixel frame size BluRay will be adopting/supporting for both recording and plaback?

Cheers

[ppera2]

Originally posted by FredThompson
...
Things like trying to outlaw cell phone use in theaters because first viewers tell others if a movie stinks ...


I agree with most of your post. But this about cell phone usage is little funny. Before some 2 years I was in theatre, where people phoned during movie projection, and it was terrible. Now it's much better, not because some law, but because better culture level (or because cell phone is not 'exclusive' anymore ?).
If movie stinks, no need for radio to inform people about it. Someone will rush out to save his nose, and can inform.... Or next step is to forbid leaving theatre until movie finishes ? :D

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
Um, I mentioned less noise in the cinema than on the DVD.
Could be true... But why then ???

Because MPEG2 turns the exiting noise into ringing/distortion ???

Maybe I do a test with some uncompressed clean CG animations... ;)

Encode them to MPEG2 with n' without applying noise, and do the same with MPEG4 !!!

But that would need "some" time... :(
Originally posted by mf
I think he meant that the noise visible in the cinemas is filtered out by WMV, which is only partly true.
Was more some sort of "I don't really like WMV" statement... ;)

Uhm... WMV in cinema ??? You know this was adreesed to T2... :p
Originally posted by mf
I've found Soulhunter likes to ask rhetoric questions like that :D
That drove my teachers right into the mental-hospital... :D :D :D

Lets say, its just some sort of hobby !!!

Bye

[mf]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Could be true... But why then ???

Because MPEG2 turns the exiting noise into ringing/distortion ???

No, because noise is added to give a "film effect" to DVD movies. And/or to make DVD-ripping harder?

Uhm... WMV in cinema ??? You know this was adreesed to T2... :p

You mentioned WMV9 removing noise. But my point was that this noise is not (only as much as in the T2 WMV) so clearly existant in the cinema, meaning that the noise is actually not filtered out by WMV.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
No, because noise is added to give a "film effect" to DVD movies. And/or to make DVD-ripping harder?
Ohw, now I understand it !!!

You mean the mastering guys apply it to the source... !?!

Could be that some ppl in watching tests said that the source is too clear...

Because they depend it to a TV picture with all its interferences... ;)

Or as you said, to make the re-encoding harder... :D :D :D


Too bad that Ive already made a small test if the MPEG2 compression could cause this phenomenon...

But the results where anyway not much informative ... :rolleyes:

Only thing that I got was a noise smoothing at lower bitrates...

And at DVD bitrates there was nearly no difference in noise amount visible !!!
Originally posted by mf
You mentioned WMV9 removing noise. But my point was that this noise is not (only as much as in the T2 WMV) so clearly existent in the cinema, meaning that the noise is actually not filtered out by WMV.
Ok, I cant tell you how T2 looks in the cinema, just because its too long ago to remind for me...

But I can tell that all movies Ive seen the last year had a visible amount of noise !!!

Some more, some less...

Can tell this because I already think about encoding the movie while watching it the first time... :D

LOTR... "Hmm, good, 2/3 scenes in darkness..."

MATRIX3... "Damn, why have they filmed this fight in rain..."

That destroys the whole fun of watching the movies, but I cant do anything about it !!!

So Ive to watch every movie twice... :angry:

Bye

[mf]

Nah, I just watch a movie and think "hmm, this scene was shot out of focus", and "they should've swapped focus with each character talking", and "bah, this film transfer is so blurry". And when I watch dark scenes I'm just "Aah, how nice, finally I get to watch something dark that's not blocky or oversmoothed again T_T". But I really do enjoy the movie though noticing all this. Now if only I could use SharpTools on those movie reels.... :D

[Adz]

BluRay will be the next MiniDisc in my opinion.

It wont fail, nor will it be a success.

Minidisc has a place in the market, but it'll never top CD.

Same as BlueRay will have a place, but it'll never top DVD (or dvd variants).

The only way to stop piracy is to stop us having a portable, recordable format to do it with, and rest assured, I think that day will come, one day.

[mpucoder]

What do you think will happen when analog television is phased out? Once there is no more analog broadcasting, there will be little demand for analog display devices, and standard DVD players will also become obsolete.

(Now maybe you see who is the third player in the conversion-to-digital debates at the FCC, the other two being broadcasters, who have to bear the cost of converting their stations, and consumers, who will eventually need new equipment)

[Doom9]

No, because noise is added to give a "film effect" to DVD movies. And/or to make DVD-ripping harder?
That is a conspiracy theory. Go watch a movie in the theater next week-end and have a close look at the picture.. you see tons of film grain.. it's part of the original source so obviously a DVD transfer will contain the same film grain effect.

[Sirber]

I agree with Doom9, I see grain also in theater :(

[Marcel]

Originally posted by mpucoder
What do you think will happen when analog television is phased out? Once there is no more analog broadcasting, there will be little demand for analog display devices, and standard DVD players will also become obsolete.


What makes you think that standard DVD players will become obsolete, just because of the end of analog television?
Leads me to the question: Do you believe that once the video transfer from DVD/EVD player to TV will be digital?

(and about the grain in cinemas: I prefer to sit in one of the last rows, for the health of my neck...)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by mpucoder
What do you think will happen when analog television is phased out? Once there is no more analog broadcasting, there will be little demand for analog display devices, and standard DVD players will also become obsolete. Analogue TV might soon become a thing of the past, but I think it will be a good while yet before analog inputs disappear from (or won't be included) on LCD, Plasma or Projectors.

The CRT tube is definitely 'knocking on heavens door' (after many year faithful service). And will probably cease manufacture within 5 years, probably 3!

Did you know that John Logie Baird demonstrated a 600 line, colour, '3D' (or stereo as he called it) broadcast, as long ago as 1946.... amazing!

Originally posted by Doom9
That is a conspiracy theory. Go watch a movie in the theater next week-end and have a close look at the picture.. you see tons of film grain.. it's part of the original source so obviously a DVD transfer will contain the same film grain effect. Now don't tell anybody but.... film effect (noise, grain etc), used to be regularly added during tele-cine, to balance out the overall visual quality of the transfer!

Cheers

[mf]

Originally posted by Doom9
That is a conspiracy theory. Go watch a movie in the theater next week-end and have a close look at the picture.. you see tons of film grain.. it's part of the original source so obviously a DVD transfer will contain the same film grain effect.
That's what I said at the start of the thread. It's much much less. And I sat second row at LOTR3 (and during the credits I walked to the screen for a closer look :D), so I should've been near enough to see it all. This is meters and meters of screen, while DVD is only 720 pixels wide. To preserve the grain I usually see at the theatre, you'd need some kind of super-sharp lanczos resize or simply nearest neighbour to preserve it at such a low resolution. I don't find it a conspiracy theory (I don't do conspiracies), just a deduction from what I get to see in the cinema and on DVD.

[ppera2]

I don't see why so much talk about noise in diverse video medias.
Noise is something what is normal, and inevitable. Every film has it's noise, more or less. It also depends much from strength (sensibility) of film, how strong is noise. I always see noise in cinema theatre. Who doesn't see it, should visit eye-doctor :)

[thop]

Noise is good, everyone using ffdshow & noise algo knows this ;)

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
and during the credits I walked to the screen for a closer look :D
You forgot to ask the guy at the projector to freeze the image for some seconds... :D :D :D

Bye

[gooki]

Also since the credits are produced digitally there's little point checking for noise during that section.

[Beastie Boy]

Originally posted by gooki
Also since the credits are produced digitally there's little point checking for noise during that section.

But this digital footage is then transferred onto film for the projector. This film has a silver halide structure which is also projected onto the screen. This is what causes noise in film.
The faster, or more sensitive to light the film is, the larger the silver halide particles, hence more visable noise is produced.

I feel this thread is starting to move off topic :(

Cheers, Beastie.

[mf]

Originally posted by gooki
Also since the credits are produced digitally there's little point checking for noise during that section.
You can't expect me to walk up to the screen while the movie is still running, can you :D. And the credits are on film on the master reel, and the reel in cinemas is at best a first-generation copy of the master reel.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Beastie Boy
I feel this thread is starting to move off topic :(
Maybe its time for a poll...

Who would buy "not-copy-able" BlueRay discs, and "highly-expensive" BlueRay players, in the next 5 years ???

Bye

[FredThompson]

Son of DivX
I Was a Teenage DivX
Bride of DivX
DivX Returns

[Sirber]

I won't buy a blueray player nor movies on blueray, since I mostly use my computer to watch movies.

[unmei]

sirber: no surprise, if they are all RV9/10 :D
..but it's the same for me (the 'use computer', i have no TV at all) and i'm in any 'let`s not buy it'-party anyway. But there are still enogh people who will look at it as being very cool, even if they have to throw out truckloads of money to get the equipment and to watch the few discs in hi-def.

As long as the format degrades less than VHS im going for the cheapest medium (DVD) as i can back it up to hi-price DVD-R but in more compressed format.

...i wonder what sort of useless extras they will add to 'justify' the high prices ..maybe games or even more trailers :(

[FredThompson]

I was going to suggest you have some cheese with your whine until I saw your avatar...

[Wolfman]

And dont mention the actual "noise" in the cinema! Most of it coming from people farting, eating crisps or sucking Werthers. Or somebody telling somebody else the plot on their mobile phone. Cinema? Skinyourma! Buy or rent the dvd every time. Also dvd (players) have another 15 years of life left, as they have'nt reached saturation levels yet (55%+), and people wont be throwng out their new devices for awhile. Blu ray et al could be achieved easily today using mpeg4 on dvd's.. no need for new technology at all. Blue laser for super Hi def, Red laser for quite hi def . Green laser for pirates Def!! :D

[ppera2]

Originally posted by Wolfman
And dont mention the actual "noise" in the cinema! Most of it coming from people farting, eating crisps or sucking Werthers. Or somebody telling somebody else the plot on their mobile phone. Cinema? Skinyourma! Buy or rent the dvd every time.

I just watched Return of the King in cinema, and didn't notice any of mentioned 'noise'.
Buy DVD? Maybe... But I want to see first is it worth.

[mf]

Originally posted by ppera2
I just watched Return of the King in cinema, and didn't notice any of mentioned 'noise'.
Buy DVD? Maybe... But I want to see first is it worth.
Me neither, actually, during Return of the King, I think I was the most of a nuisance, because right before they went to get the cursed army, my stainless steel bladder was starting to feel uncomfy (I could've held it up for the length of the movie, however it wouldn't be very comfortable), so I had to walk outside for a bit, and my keys are kind of noisy (I did keep my head down). Luckily I wasn't the only one :D, however I wasn't annoyed by anyone (I think taking the 9pm version helps against annoying people, they don't seem to be keen on not getting out of the cinema until half past 12 at night). And DVD sucks ass quality-wise, but I already mentioned that :p.

[Sirber]

DVD quality depends a lot on the source, if the source were digital, DVD quality could kick serious ass...

[mf]

Originally posted by Sirber
DVD quality depends a lot on the source, if the source were digital, DVD quality could kick serious ass...
At 720x576? Don't make me laugh :D.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
At 720x576? Don't make me laugh :D.
Yeah, watch the M$ T2 1080p video... :eek:

Could change Siber's mind... ;)

Did change mine... :rolleyes:

Bye