BluRay to stop piracy

[Doom9]

Check this out: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/nij-09.01.04-000/

Poor Sony claims that DVD is no longer profitable due to piracy and therefore they need a new format with stronger encryption. Sony proposes to launch digital HD content on BluRay discs in 2005/06, using AES encryption (that's going to be a bitch to crack if properly implemented).

However, I think the Sony guys need to look at their yearly statement a little bit closer. DVD has been a major source of income for all movie studios in the recent years, they make even more money than they ever made with VHS and often a DVD release makes them a lot more than the movie made in the theater. So, I for one can't quite follow Sony's argumentation. It's obviously that the content industry would like us pick up the soap they drop in the prison shower, but their argumentation is really weak.

[GIR]

WTF it's in Germanese! English Here (http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fdata%2Fnij-09.01.04-000%2F&lp=de_en&tt=url)

Bleh, no big deal, I guess it's back to analogue capture then, you loose again SONY :p

[The Edge]

Tut-Tut

[Koepi]

I think it's most offending that they claim that germany/the german pirate copiers (see any stereotypes here? "the nazi german folk did it!" - this is so ridiculous.) are causing the biggest damage.

This is certainly not true at all, because in comparison there should be more DVDs been sold here as well. And if 5% do make backups... well then the absolute number is bigger as well of course. I wonder how they can come up with such a statement and/or numbers, those have to be assumptions.

I certainly doubt that blu-ray disc will be successfull in 2 years. It'll be even more expensive, and since there is still no real HDTV around in europe there's no advantage for european consumers - they need to buy a new TV set as well and so on.

Koepi

[The Edge]

OT
Yeap......we've only got our first HDTV channel last month.
Sure Ireland has one of the highest piracy rates in Europe.
Something like 42% back in 2002 as far as I remember. :o

[Doom9]

Sure Ireland has one of the highest piracy rates in Europe.You mean software here, don't you? That isn't the same as movies.

@Koepi: People who back up their DVDs aren't pirates ;) Sony must mean all the Donkeys, Kazaas, etc. out there.

Either way... there's no standard for how you put things on the disc so I doubt they can come up with a standard in time.. and if they stick with how we do things on DVDs... better interactivity? No. Revolution? Hell no. The step from VHS to DVD was lightyears larger than from DVD to some HD DVD format. All the HD format can offer is higher resolutions and bitrates.. DVD offered interactivity, easy access, extra features, multiple audio and subtitle channels.. that's what I call a revolution.

Heck, the DVD forum hasn't even settled on a HD DVD standard yet (they have but some feel the decision will be reversed once a BluRay proponent takes over the DVD forum chair, which is supposed to happen in the 2nd half of 2004). Either way, studios won't commit to something new that easily.

And let's not forget: Sony will get licensing fees for every BluRay device and disc made. I think that and the promise of total control (abolishment of fair use via technical means and laws) is what is driving Sony here. Seeing how DVD audio fares I have my doubts that a DVD successor will be as successful as DVD itself.

[The Edge]

Originally posted by Doom9
You mean software here, don't you? That isn't the same as movies.

Of course ;)
Also, reading up about AES encryption I found that 128 bit AES offers a total of 3.4 x 10^38 individual keys. It is estimated that if a AES key generator were able to discover 1 AES key per second, it would take 149 thousand-billion (149 trillion) years to crack a single 128 bit AES key!!!
As a note, the universe is accepted as being only approximately 20 billion years old ! Yowza! :eek:

[Koepi]

Ah, I didn't express myself clear enough:

if we assume that 5% of the DVDs sold get pirated (and/or distributed), I'd think that they must account personal backup in their calculations as well (even if those backups don't get distributed _they_ of course consider that piracy. Why a backup, if I can buy the DVD twice?). I don't see too many people around me capable of even ripping a DVD. So to criminalize the whole german people this must be the case.

I hope these words by Benjamin S. Feingold, President of Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment (CTSHE), get noticed by a broader public so we can boycott these *peeeep*.

Bottom line, of course the private backup isn't piracy - but the "major global players" in the entertainment market want to make it an act of crime. I hope this is cleared up now :)

Regards
Koepi

[TactX]

Originally posted by Doom9
@Koepi: People who back up their DVDs aren't pirates ;) Sony must mean all the Donkeys, Kazaas, etc. out there.
I'm quite sure that Sony would call people pirates, even if they just make private copies and practice fair use. Especially with the DMCA being active :(

The worst part of that news is imho the fact that Mr. Feingold actually mentions Germany as "bad example". For me as a german this is just a defamation.

[communist]

I pretty much agree with Koepi.
Unless they change a lot of other devices making backups of them shouldn be too much of a concern... analog capture :p

[Doom9]

I also consider Germany a bad example, but in the reverse sense. These days, DMCA encforcement w.r.t. DVD and CD backups is a lot more strict in Germany than in the US (or anywhere else in the planet). A simple link to AnyDVD can get you sued (happend to a student website.. the RIAA got their big guns and extortet 2000€ from the poor guy, who probably didn't even know that AnyDVD could be used to copy copy protected CDs).

[ppera2]

By some statistics, Germany 'leads' in piracy between high developed industry lands in percentage. If we add to that fact, that it's biggest market in Europe, it could be reason why they consider them as biggest damage makers.

As I remember, first effective DVD rip software worked on way, that it catched decoded picture from some software player, and then 'frameserved' it further. Since it will be possible, and easier for later encryptions too, I see only way to prevent making digital copies: forbidding software players. It's of course almost impossible, and even worse, will loose big market for HDTV, because it will be 10 times more people able to watch HDTV on computers than on TV-s.

[unmei]

a bit OT, but from the same article:

"Zudem sei der Verkauf von DVD-Playern bereits seit zwei Jahren wieder rückläufig. Wenn die DVD dieses "Verfallsdatum" 2005/2006 erreichten, wäre es Zeit für ein neues Format, ..."
(Besides the sales of DVD Players is declining for two years already. If the DVD reached this "expiration date" 2005/2006, it would be time for a new format, ...)

Thanks for planning to force me into buying a new device so soon again. it's starting to resemble microsoft strategies..

[edit: bablefish translation deborked]

[jggimi]

Yesterday's USA Today -- a US based national newspaper - cover story was on the DVD, and it's inroads into the entertainment industry, but at the expense of other entertainment.Total DVD revenue last year hit $17.5 billion — $12.1 billion in sales, $5.4 billion in rentals....That surpasses the most optimistic expectations and overshadows spending on movie tickets, music CDs and video games....Nearly every other area of entertainment — TV watching, CD buying, moviegoing — is showing a downward trend:

• Moviegoers spent 1% less at the box office last year ($9.17 billion) than in 2002 ($9.27 billion); overall, theaters sold 100 million fewer movie tickets. It was the first time in more than a decade that Hollywood failed to set a box office record.

• Music sales continued a three-year slump, though the rate of decline has slowed. The industry took solace in that CD album sales dropped 2% to $12.5 billion last year, compared with 9% in 2002.

• Television executives are arguing with audience trackers over the mysterious disappearance of chunks of the viewing audience. Overall, the six major networks have lost about 8% of their viewers, compared with fall 2002. The biggest drop has come among young men, particularly ages 18 to 24 (down 23%).

...Is it coincidence, or could there be a connection to DVD's phenomenal success? Here's the link: http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-01-08-dvd-success_x.htm

[SeeMoreDigital]

Poor old Sony... my heart really bleeds for them!

They (and all the other hardware manufacturers) will use any excuse for promoting a new 'safer' format.

Don't get me wrong, I will love to see the video quality that BluRay promises to bring. Once that is, when our screens are up to the task of displaying such an image!

But I wonder what new disc format the manufacturers will try and force upon us after BluRay has been cracked!

Cheers

[Soulhunter]

Maybe BlueRay will do it the same way as the good old BetaTape... :D :D :D

Bye

[Doom9]

@jggimi: that were just the numbers I was looking for to back up my argument against Mr. Feingold.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Do we really need BluRay anyway at this moment in time?

I read a report the other day, that intimated another 25% compression improvement could be had out of Mpeg2!

If this turns out to be the case, I would have thought the current dual layered DVD could hold around 150mins of HiDef (1280x720) video anyway!

New players with HD chipsets would be required but what the hey!

Cheers

[bilu]

Originally posted by Doom9
Poor Sony claims that DVD is no longer profitable due to piracy and therefore they need a new format with stronger encryption. Sony proposes to launch digital HD content on BluRay discs in 2005/06, using AES encryption (that's going to be a bitch to crack if properly implemented).
Then everybody will look for traditional DVD versions of the movies. Or even EVD or whatever.

Screwing Fair Use is illegal IMHO (I'd like to see them making me a copy when a DVD gets scratched, or maybe lifetime garantee), and so are region codes and Macrovision (at least you should be able to make analog backups, remember Sony Minidisc only having analog output to avoid digital copies?). Region codes stop you from importing movies you still don't have in your country. Why the hell is that legal for every other product that you buy?

I'm getting sick of the movie industry.


Bilu

[falconfighter]

As for the encryption: That's What Distributed Computing Is For. (tm)
As for the copy-protection: Hey, you mean it'll last maybe a month? (a.k.a. uncrackable). There's always an ADVC-100, feed video in, get DVD quality DV out....

[MfA]

Good encryption wont get brute forced, if the key gets cracked it will be by reverse engineering at the chip level.

[FredThompson]

Sorry, I'm a little slow sometimes, is this the same Sony that is bringing out a PSX 325-hour PVR with DVD burning capability?

Nah, can't be.

[Stabmaster-Arson]

Here is the main issue i think the big media boys don't understand. Even though it is illegal, a person who fires up kazaa and downloads divx movies ripped from DVD, would not buy the disk anyway. IMO the majority of "pirates" just don't have the cash.

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Sorry, I'm a little slow sometimes, is this the same Sony that is bringing out a PSX 325-hour PVR with DVD burning capability?

And the same Sony that fought for fair use against Universal Studios in the "Betamax Trial" - then bought Universal.

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by mpucoder
And the same Sony that fought for fair use against Universal Studios in the "Betamax Trial" - then bought Universal. Any relation to the "Sony" that sells pre-recorded audio CDs or the "Sony" that sells blank CDRs and DVDRs?

Maybe "Sony" is kind of like "Joe"...

[wiz]

The funny thing about the bad germans is that the average german buys more dvd and dvd- quipment than any other country. I have yet to find that article again, but I remember this clearly because of the bitter irony of that fact. Why should movie piracy or fair use pose a problem to movie sellers in a country, whichs inhabitants spend more money on DVDs&Co than any other?

And regarding dvd-piracy, if I remember right, wasn't there a really big fuss about VHS Recorders destroying the whole movie industry? Nah, couldn't be, could it? ;)

[sarahjh69]

yet another "you won't copy this" scare story.
How many times have we heard this before?

If I can watch it on my tv or listen to it, I can copy it!
There will never be an effective copy protection.
(unless they record everything on Princo DVD-r)

[Marcel]

Originally posted by Doom9
Revolution? Hell no. The step from VHS to DVD was lightyears larger than from DVD to some HD DVD format. All the HD format can offer is higher resolutions and bitrates.. DVD offered interactivity, easy access, extra features, multiple audio and subtitle channels.. that's what I call a revolution.


About that, let me quote (and translate, don't worry, but don't expect miracles - my english isn't perfect)

Read on heise.de
Neben dem hochauflösenden Videobild will sich CTSHE dabei vor allem um eine verbesserte Interaktivität kümmern -- es ginge, so Feingold, um die Schaffung eines "Wow Factors". Eine kurze Demonstration mit einer speziellen Version von "Stuart Little II" sollte hiervon einen Eindruck vermitteln, was allerdings nicht so recht gelang. Zwar waren die Menüs hier interessanter als bei Video-DVDs gestaltet, Ähnliches konnte man aber schon bei DVD-Titeln sehen, deren DVD-ROM-Part für PCs mit installierter Middleware "PC Friendly" gestaltet wurden.

trying to translate...
Besides the hi-res video picture, CTSHE is aiming for an improved interactivity - it's about creating a "wow factor". A special version of "Stuart Little II" was shown to give an impression of the new capabilities, but it didn't succeed at all. The menue's design was more interesting than that of Video-DVDs, but this has already been seen at DVDs with a DVD-ROM-part designed for PCs with middleware "PC Friendly" installed.


Well, the worldwide success of interactive TV shows us the need for more interactivity in the living room.
And on PC-side: Been there, done that.
For the higher resolution: The magazine "c't" (also published by Heise) states that if you look at a picture from the best picture viewing distance (same as the length of the diagonal, they say), the diagonal should contain 1500 pixels. And the best viewing distance for TV, I once was told, is five times the length of TVs diagonal...

Read on heise.de
"Zudem sei der Verkauf von DVD-Playern bereits seit zwei Jahren wieder rückläufig."

trying to translate...
"Furthermore, the number of DVD players sold is falling for two years now."

A president of a corporation who never heard the term "market saturation" should really sign off and go back to school again.

Read on heise.de
"Aussagen zur Haltung anderer Filmstudios wollte Feingold nicht machen, gab sich aber zuversichtlich, dass alle auf den Blu-ray-Zug aufspringen werden, wenn dieser erst einmal Fahrt aufgenommen habe. Eine Unterstützung von HD-Formaten mit rotem Laser und effizienteren Kompressionsverfahren schloss er aus -- diese würden nur Verwirrung bei den potenziellen Konsumenten stiften."

trying to translate...
"Feingold didn't say anything about the acceptance [of this format] at other movie studios, but he was sure that everyone would use Blu-ray when it is present at the market. He ruled out a support for HD-formats with red laser and more efficient compression algorithms - they would just confuse the potential consumers."


So, in 2005, every owner of a MPEG4-capable player is living for piracy?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Marcel and others,

Does anybody know for definite which HD format BluRay will be adopting?

Will it be 720p (1280x720) with its True 16:9 Progressive Frame'. Or will it be 1080i (1920x1080/1088) with its 'True 16:9 Interlaced Frame'?

I have to admit, I have a preference for watching 720p over 1080i. After seeing a 'side by side' demonstration some months ago!

As far back as the mid 1980's. NHK while working on it's own MUSE HDTV analog service concluded that the image quality of an interlaced transmission equalled those of an progressive scan transmission with just 60% of the scan lines. So with that in mind an 1080i with it's 2No 540 interlaced scan frames would need to be broadcast at a higher resolution (bitrate) and needs a much higher quality/expensive screen to display it!

Makes you think... don't it!

[mf]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
As far back as the mid 1980's. NHK while working on it's own MUSE HDTV analog service concluded that the image quality of an interlaced transmission equalled those of an progressive scan transmission with just 60% of the scan lines. So with that in mind an 1080i with it's 2No 540 interlaced scan frames would need to be broadcast at a higher resolution (bitrate) and needs a much higher quality/expensive screen to display it!
Interlacing increases viewing distance (because of unsteady picture), however with advancing deinterlacing (on-chip deinterlacing is advancing very far (look at philips' truemotion), with our avisynth filters limping behind) it is becoming feasible to display interlaced image on a progressive screen. That would mean image coded as 1080i can be displayed as 1080p with only slight reduced clarity (still higher than 720p). This brute-force compression method out of the stone age (1950s) is slowly but surely being caught up by technology, making it an interesting compression method (a codec for which the encoder hasn't changed in years but decoders are getting better and better postprocessing for :D).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, the 'interlacing to progressive' method you speak of is most intriguing!

I'm waiting for my WXGA (1366x768) 42" plasma screen to arrive, so I can carry out some 720p tests.

I don't know whether or not WUXGA (1920x1200) screens are available yet in any great numbers and at a price I would be willing to afford but it sure would be good to test the 'interlacing to progressive' method properly in a fully digital pixel to pixel environment.

That said, Microsoft have posted some WMV9 1080p encodes on their website. Which I'm sure would look great if only my PC could play them properly without stuttering!

I guess my graphics card isn't up to the task. But just the thought of true 1080p images is a mouth watering prospect!

Cheers

[mf]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
That said, Microsoft have posted some WMV9 1080p encodes on their website. Which I'm sure would look great if only my PC could play them properly without stuttering!
I guess my graphics card isn't up to the task. But just the thought of true 1080p images is a mouth watering prospect!
Indeed, the fire in the T2 sample just moves *everywhere*, and without much film noise (there goes the theory that the noise we find on DVDs actually comes from the original film, which is of course very false, most noise on DVDs is artificial), and the looks really bias towards a real definition of the word "home cinema" (DVD never even came close). The searchlight on the helicopter shows some nasty blocks though.

[Soulhunter]

There goes the theory that the noise we find on DVDs actually comes from the original film, which is of course very false, most noise on DVDs is artificial...
But why is this noise also visible when we watch movies in the cinema ???

I think its because WMV9 is one of the most effective "noise-filters" out there... ;)

- Second after RV9 of course !!! :D :D :D

Ive seen what they do with the "DETECTIVE STORY" of Animatrix... :rolleyes:

Bye

[MfA]

The really old interlaced research is completely irrelevant because it doesnt take compression efficiency into account. Even the more recent research isnt all that relevant anymore ... I have seen no research which takes framerate upconversion into account, let alone super-resolution reconstruction from multiple frames which TVs will soon be able to do.

[thop]

128bit encryption will likely not help anyway. It has to be decrypted somewhere, and there will be one company who will implement it poorly, and so it gets cracked (XBOX 007 anyone?). It's alway the same, when will they learn? Never.

Here is my advice: Make better movies and i will consider buying more DVDs. Today all we get is crap shallow action/CG movies and crappy remakes of old movies. The first DVD i bought was 12 Angry Men (1957). It is worth every penny. The menu is simple and almost no extras (trailer), it's mono even, but i don't care at all - i care about the movie not about all the crap around it. Ho$$ywood will need some time to understand that though, i don't think it'll happen in the next 10 years.

People will still like a good movie even when the quality is average, but a terrible movie cannot be made better even with a 10000x10000 pixel and no compression format.

[mf]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
But why is this noise also visible when we watch movies in the cinema ???
I don't know what cinemas you go to, but the reels they show at the local Pathe here in eindhoven have very little noise compared to DVDs. I sat second row from the front watching LOTR3, and the noise didn't bug me at all. In fact, I annoyed myself more at the fact that they didn't use those kind of lenses that keep the whole scene in focus (I saw it somewhere on Discovery a long time ago), and as a result of that most of the scene (that wasn't focused on ;)) was so damn blurry :D.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by MfA
... I have seen no research which takes framerate upconversion into account, let alone super-resolution reconstruction from multiple frames which TVs will soon be able to do. This is most true!

And one of the reasons why I'm in favour of more '24fps film speed' to 24fps digital speed' transfers. Like the one that was done for T2 Extreme. Even the WMV9 DVD of T2 Extreme runs as 24fps.

'Noise' can appear in film. Film technology constantly changes too. As do lenses, filters and the way they interact with each other. Noise can even be generated during the films processing.

But the biggest contributer to the film noise that's seen at cinema's is most likely due to the way the film is copied/duplicated prior to distribution!

Cheers

[ppera2]

Originally posted by thop
128bit encryption will likely not help anyway. It has to be decrypted somewhere, and there will be one company who will implement it poorly, and so it gets cracked (XBOX 007 anyone?). It's alway the same, when will they learn? Never....
People will still like a good movie even when the quality is average, but a terrible movie cannot be made better even with a 10000x10000 pixel and no compression format.

Right 100%.
It stays especially for DVD's. Collectors will not 'collect' trash.

[trbarry]

I sometimes wonder if all the rhetoric against pirates has much at all to do with piracy.

There is the possibility that Sony has a couple other different adversaries in mind.

First, I think all the consumer electronics companies fear that general purpose media computers are going to eventually eat their lunch. One way to combat this is to play the "piracy" card and continue to scare the heck out of Hollywood, convincing them that only new non-computer formats are safe. Then any new formats will be evaluated somewhat on their inability to be easily used computers. Blue ray follows this pattern.

Second, I think the blue ray folks partially insisted on MPEG-2 simply because it is sufficiently inefficient that you MUST use a large blue laser disc to store HD movies. This sort of let's out the red laser folks, including all the computer users with their red laser copiers. But I also think blue laser is losing out to HD-DVD (Toshiba AOD) and EVD. The newest round of blue laser pirate scare may be targeted at them, making it seem blue laser is somehow safer because even if you crack it the blue laser MPEG-2 is too large to pass around on the Internet without re-encoding.

So to some extent pirates are just a convenient boogey man to scare people and woo Hollywood.

- Tom

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
I sat second row from the front watching LOTR3, and the noise didn't bug me at all. Ok, But isn't LOTR produced mostly the digital way ???

Originally posted by trbarry
The newest round of blue laser pirate scare may be targeted at them, making it seem blue laser is somehow safer because even if you crack it the blue laser MPEG-2 is too large to pass around on the Internet without re-encoding.So, a good reason for telecommunication-guys to invent a even faster net-connection... ;)

Bye

[bilu]

Originally posted by trbarry
Second, I think the blue ray folks partially insisted on MPEG-2 simply because it is sufficiently inefficient that you MUST use a large blue laser disc to store HD movies. One of these days we'll see a DV-based format even larger :rolleyes:


Bilu

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well we are all yet to see realistic prices for BluRay media!

The funny thing is, the prices of hard drives are falling very fast.

Who knows, by the time BluRay is launched its blank media might end up being more expensive than an equivalently sized hard drive!

Now that would be bizarre!

Cheers

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Who knows, by the time BluRay is launched its blank media might end up being more expensive than an equivalently sized hard drive!

Now that would be bizarre!
But inserting a HD is a bit more difficult than inserting a disc... :rolleyes:

I think that brings us back to the laziness of PPL (CFS/youth)... ;)

[m99]

I'm into stocktrading, and poor exuses like this is common from companies that don't meet expectations, so I think I'm going to short Sony tomorrow.

[mf]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Ok, But isn't LOTR produced mostly the digital way ???
Afaik Star Wars are the only movies actually shot digitally, and it was very inconvenient to have the huge cables running from the huge digital cameras. So I don't think they actually did that with LOTR. They did do digital color grading, but that was post-production.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by mf
They did do digital color grading, but that was post-production. Ok, then its 100% digitally post-produced... :p

Cant remember if there was much grain/noise in the cinema versions of the LOTR triology...

Only movie I found the noise annoying was 28 days later !!!

Think it was because its filmed with a old 8mm camera... ;)

So I think its like SMD already said...

It depends on the used film-material, equipment, filters, post-processing & copying/duplicating !!!

So, at the end, every movie has its very unique amount & kind of noise...

Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
...So I think its like SMD already said...

It depends on the used film-material, equipment, filters, post-processing & copying/duplicating !!!

So, at the end, every movie has its very unique amount & kind of noise... Yep, I asked a 'film camera man' friend of mine about this problem last night. And there are apparently quite a few 'very technical' reasons as to why/how an projected image can appear to look noisy!

One likely cause (that I didn't think of) may be due to the 'wall glazing panel' between the projection room and the seating area - which is of course immediately in front of the projector. Apparently if this glazing panel is not looked after properly, all kinds of weird effects can be seen on the projection screen.

Also if a 'clear plastic' panel is used, instead of glass, the plastic very quickly, breaks down/crazes, forming tiny prisms of distorted light.... amazing!

But as he confirmed. There is know telling how many copies of the copy of the copy, have been made from the original film source, before it ends up at the cinema. Or how well the cinema looks after the film during projection and storage.

Blimey... there's just too many things to think about in life... isn't there?

Cheers

[mf]

Um, I mentioned less noise in the cinema than on the DVD? :D I think somebody's missing the point :rolleyes:.

[int 21h]

Originally posted by MfA
Good encryption wont get brute forced, if the key gets cracked it will be by reverse engineering at the chip level.

They will probably look toward more successful content protection for an idea of where to go from here.

Everyone that says that any key can eventually be cracked is right in a sense. Given enough time any key can be cracked, but unless the delivery system or an intermediate system is compromised first, you'll be waiting a very long time.

Look towards Satellite TV in the US, the ASIC keys of a certain company's smart cards have never been cracked, all intrusion has been through the hardware level, i.e. power glitches into the card itself, and even after dumping the entire contents of several revisions of access cards EEPROM and ROMs, pirates can still not sign their own packets to the card, i.e. the 256-bit keys still remain a mystery, and this is just for the card operations, no one has ever brute-forced the key for the stream either (a unique rotating key that the card itself produces with the ASIC). The formerly grey-market in Canada, now black-market, pours millions into reverse engineering, but the keys still hold... This would be a preview of what would happen if even a 128-bit Divx like system was implemented, in conjunction with a secure bios and secure operating system initiative, it could eliminate many of your FairUse rights.

[FredThompson]

Yes, that is possible. However, don't forget the size and power of the electronics companies dwarves that of the studios. When Joe Blow realizes he can no longer make recordings or watch recordings in another location, the studios are going to get smacked big time by politicians.

The real root of the problem is teh lack of truly creative entrepreneurial people in the business side of content production and distribution. Just as comedians who aren't clever resort to shock material, these people are trying to restrict access rather than generating things people want to see.

It's really no different than any other market which fell to the attack of digital information. Once technology removes the physical obstacles to delivering content, whatever that content may be, the pre-existing production and distribution channels panic because they know their role is no longer needed.

Things like trying to outlaw cell phone use in theaters because first viewers tell others if a movie stinks or DRM to the point they want to turn your corneas and eardrums off won't solve their situation. Times change and they need to focus on service more than content protection. The last time I checked, I didn't have a 200 foot screen with rocking recliner seat in my house. The recent LOTR was well worth the money. Would I have looked at a pirated preview from the web? Probably not in this case because I already knew how good it would be. Would I do it with other movies? I have. If I like what I see, I go watch it in the theatre.

Just as Encyclopaedia Britannica "forgot" it's mission is the delivery of information and focussed too much on HOW they deliver the information, so have the studios. Competition for attention and money from consumers is a good thing. Maybe they should pay more attention to making things we want than throwing parties for themselves.