Ciao! (XviD-1.0-Beta2-05122003)

[BoNz1]

Originally posted by Bulletproof
Is reduced resolution supposed to be working? I seem to be getting some weird artifacts when enabling it or it just crashes sometimes when decoding.


Yup, it works but only for ARTS profile. It doesn't work with b-frames, qpel, gmc and interlacing. Well, I don't know if it does work but who knows it may but it certainly will not be compatible. If you want to decode reduced resolution you must use the XviD decoder and _not_ ffdshow or else you will see nasty artifacts like you described b/c ffdshow doesn't support reduced res decoding.

[nanji]

Originally posted by Manao
nanji : I think you're right ( and I don't know how I came to think one could enter a 2GB+ filesize in the interface, since the size is in KB :rolleyes: )

Beta3 yet?

[Alxemi]

Hi all, here is my crash report.
This is the first time XviD crashes in my system, i´m under a duron800 with 128 SDRAM (133), graphics ati radeon 9100 and Windows XP SP1

Using latest (1.5.10.1) Vdubmod and Ciao, crash in the first pass.
Here are my XviD settings:

Profile: Unrestricted
Matrix: HVS better, Trellis quant activated
QPEL, GMC, Reduced resolution

BVOPS 2, 1.50, 1.00, closed GOV
MTP 6 (ultra high)
VHQ 1
Maximun I-frame 250
Special Zone for credits starting at frame 138960
Desired size 604000
Other settings by default, credits at quant 24

The movie was DareDevil, and here is my avisynth script (using 2.53):

#Avisynth Script Starts
LoadPlugin("C:\ARCHIV~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\ARCHIV~1\GORDIA~1\undot.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\ARCHIV~1\GORDIA~1\mipsmooth.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\daredevil\p1.d2v")
crop(2,74,716,428)
BicubicResize(576,240,0,0.5)
Undot()
Lumafilter()
MipSmooth (preset="movieHQ")
#Avisynth script ends

Also here (http://138.100.51.162/~alxemi/error.zip) i have a zip file with a screenshot of XviD stats at the moment of the crash, and a txt file with the info XP gave me.

The reduced resolution setting was a mistake :/ I don´t know what it really does... anybody who could please explain? :)
And what about Bframes-trheshold? is it lost forever or will return in future versions?

Thank you all and take care.

[Koepi]

Alxemi:

As you were editing zones you'll sure just have overseen that bvop threshold can be adjusted exactly there.

As stated many times in the aloha and this ciao thread, reduced resolution is for ARTS (Advanced Real Time Simple) mpeg4 profile - it's for streaming only. It encodes a Reduced Resolution and thus degrades quality significantly, don't use it for backup purposes.

Does "XviD" still crash if you set credits quant to 16 instead of 24? Maybe we didn't cap quantizers correctly(and bframes quant would be >31 if you use quant24 setting), but i fail to see where this would happen, it always worked correctly here.

Koepi

[Manao]

@cipher : thanks ( strangely enough, when I read the formula given by superdump, I understood it as yours ). But then, I don't understand Koepi's answer, since in haibane's case ( asserting he didn't make his mistake with capping quants ), B-frame's quantizer should have been 6 ( with your formula ). That's why I asked if the formula changed.

@Alxemi : can you reproduce the crash ? And you're very hard on your system, because b-frames / gmc / qpel / mipsmooth are very demanding concerning the memory ( and so, what happens without some of these options / filter ? ).

Oh, and a tip for screenshots of such windows : use png format, it's lossless and it compress better than jpg with that kind of picture.

[Alxemi]

Koepi:
Thanks a million for your help and explanations. As you said, I overseen the bframe sensitivity in the zone tab... or i thought it was something different that threshold.
About the credits quant, well (as you can see in the xvid stats screenshot) the crash was at frame 28893, and my credit zone started at 138960... could be but it sounds weird to me :P
I will try again tonight without the reduced resolution setting and with the same credit quant. If it fails, i´ll change the quant and see what happens. Unfortunately i can only encode at night so my reports will be distants in time.
Anyway i think the most probably cause is the operating system itself... i have only 128 mb of ram and xp uses to joke with me.

Ciao all! :)

[Alxemi]

Manao:
Well you are right about my system... but this last encode was at 6/9 fps... I encoded animatrix at 1 fps (VHQ=4 was not a very good idea xD)
Anyway as i said in the post before i´ll try tonight and post.

read ya :)

[raz0r]

could you please try to get it working on ess players for the next build? i think its very important that it is playable on standalone players. Or does anyone have an ess player and can play the new xvids on it? perhaps im doing something wrong...

[crOOk]

When using certain zone scenarios the rate control seems to be disabled. SecondPass size is then equal to FirstPass size. I've already mentioned it in another thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=66181) (along with the keyframe bug). I'm sorry to post it again and hope I'm not bugging (I finally found out that word's origin :D) anyone.
This has also been mentioned by Emp3r0r in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=66268).

crOOk

[wannabe]

raz0r: I think thats already fixed, since this new beta 2 is MPEG4 compliant it should be supported by standalones. Altough you have to have players(such as the KiSS DP-500) that supports the approparite profile level (AS @ L5).

[olnima]

No, Beta2 seems not to work on ESS-Playern (yamada 6100). devAPI3 does.

Olnima

P.S.: I'm still waiting exactly for this point to use it as my new "default-codec" :)

[Nibor]

OT:
I think the Codename of the new Beta will be the Japanese word for 'Hello' ;)
My thoughts:
Aloha is 'Hawaiian' for 'Hello'
Ciao is Italian for 'Hello'
-> the next letter in alphabetical order is J
-> Japanese for 'Hello'

:D

Cheers!
Nibor

PS: Thank you all (developers, testers...) for XviD 1.0 :)

[mazzo]

As far as I know, there are two dvd players that play Divx - Kiss and Liteon. What settings should I use to ensure compatibility with these players and what settings should I avoid?

[raz0r]

Originally posted by mazzo
As far as I know, there are two dvd players that play Divx - Kiss and Liteon. What settings should I use to ensure compatibility with these players and what settings should I avoid?

dude, there are dozens of dvd players playing divx and xvid.

dont use qpel, gmc or bframes. there is a new player which can decode qpel, but xvid+gmc is still not working 100% right (divx+gmc works since long time with every ess/sigma player). bframes+divx works, but with xvid you get a fucked up picture.

[Koepi]

To explain the GMC-thing:

it was working well when xvid had such a limited GMC implementation like DivX has - 1 warppoint GMC. But XviD has 3 warppoint GMC which is currently not supported by i.e. Kiss players.

Using a search on this topic, using more than the last 30 days will give you some results concerning GMC, bframes et al.

Regards
Koepi

[Teegedeck]

Hm, I've done two first passes on the same movie, with beta1 and beta2; beta2's filesize was smaller by 4.8%. Could the effect of some tweaks on mode-decision (edit: and ME) be that big? Anyway, guess I'll have to use Andreas' 78er matrix, now, and do another first pass. :D

No problems to report from here.

[Hoschi]

@ Manao:



As I have a large number of files encoded with xvid - I noticed that some files do not decode properly. Keyframes are OK, but all other frames are scrambled.

Is 1.0 incompatible to older releases or are these problems caused by errors of earlier releases ?

24062003 decodes properly...
I do not use ffdshow, playback using divx5 improves the image, but still some errors. What did I miss ?


OK, you missed my first post and I forgot to quote it - my fault with mixing up topics.

I had with 24062003 trouble to playback a few files done with 04102002, and now I can't play a few files made with 24062003 using ciao for decode. ffdshow fixes playback for wmp etc., but not for VD.

Koepi stated that one day xvid may be able to decode all the streams done with earlier versions.

-> not ready for archiving ?
Any ideas ?

[Manao]

Originally posted by Hoschi
ffdshow fixes playback for wmp etc., but not for VD.In that case, change the FourCC code of your video to DX50, and VDub will use DivX5.1 to decode the XviD files properly. But I didn't have that issue ( well I didn't try thoroughly neither ) Is it systematic ?

Edit : @Teegedeck : well, I got 7000 more b-frames on one encode, that explains the drop in filesize.

[Teegedeck]

Do you perceive (not measure) any difference between the two files? I haven't spotted one on those two 2nd passes, yet.

[Alxemi]

Hi guys.
I am now encoding again with the same settings but reduced resolution.
In the first pass, actual frame is 45550 (20000 more than the frame that crashes) so it seems that the problem was my system, or Reduced Resolution (¿?)
Anyway i have something strange here when comparing with the first encode:

NOW:
Actual Frame: 45550
Minimun I-Frame Size: 1667

CRASH:
Actual Frame: 28893
Minimun I-Frame Size: 578

How can it be? there is a frame that was enconded to 578 that now doesn´t exist... Could be because of reduced resolution? All the other settings are the same... :?

Thank you all and take care

[Manao]

Well no, because I didn't make the second pass with beta 1.0 ( look at the beginning of the thread to know why ) But I compared with the beta 1.0 + Qpel, and visually I prefered the result ( I don't like QPel, at least on animes ). SSIM value was also higher, but that doesn't mean a lot a thing. And frame by frame, the comparison was difficult ( because b-frams weren't at the same place... )

[wing1]

It's been a long time since I've download new build from xvid community, and the beta2 version is kicking a** and taking names!!!!! "you have come a long way baby" :D All hail to XVID.

[MajinMarc]

Hello Everyone. I'm an encoder who has been using Xvid for a little over a year and a half now and I'd have to say that my knowledge on the codec is pretty good although I know it's not the best. I'm sure I'm gonna say somethings that have already been said but I'd like to give my full opinion of the new codec. From what I been testing since it was released is a slight increase in speed of the second pass. for me usually 15-20 mins on a full length approx 25 min encode. The cartoon mode seems to give my encodes(I'm exclusive to anime) a nice quality boost as well as I'd have to say better motion detection. I have noticed however that some of the avisynth filters such as Warpsharp are having at times strange effects on the very begining of the video when running Xvid Beta 1 or 2. In the upper left corner it is always pulled out usually for the first 5-7 seconds of video and then is not seen again throughout the rest of the encode. I have tested the same avs with the older xvid binary and have not seen this error at all. Might be a problem with Xvid or something very different. one can only guess. Next I'd like to comment on the Gui. This may seem like an old topic but I think the old Gui blows this one out of the water. the other one was more organized and easier to use, and was the best use of space. I really think you should consider going back to the old one and just adding the new profiles, and the cartoon mode onto it. The Overall Quality of this codec is very nice and has about 20% less blockyness on encodes which I purposely undersized for testing purposes which I'm proud to say is the reason that I choose Xvid, amzaing quality for low size. I'd like to thank the Entire Xvid team for putting out a superior codec.

[Teegedeck]

Thanks for your feedback! The GUI is definitely subject to change.

Could you describe your problem with warpsharp a little more detailed? Don't forget to use resolutions and other settings identical to those of your encodings that didn't show problems.

BTW, using paragraphs makes for easier reading. ;)

[MajinMarc]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Thanks for your feedback! The GUI is definitely subject to change.

Could you describe your problem with warpsharp a little more detailed? Don't forget to use resolutions and other settings identical to those of your encodings that didn't show problems.

BTW, using paragraphs makes for easier reading. ;)

Yeah sorry about the whole paragraph thing. I'm a little new to posting on message boards so sometimes I just type. I thought since these boards have given me so much it's about time I began to give back.

ok the warpsharp problem. I got done testing it on 2 different resolutions with the same result. 640X480,512x384(setting in which I discovered the problem). I'm gonna give as best a description as I can. if you take the video to fullscreen in the upper left corner. there is a drastic fold inwhere you can see the film reel and a black space in the upper left. I don't have any program onhand that can take a picture of directshow videos or I would put it up. To give this problem a better view it's like turning warpsharp up WAY too high the setting I was using is ridiculously low. Warpsharp(Video,7,2) on this particular encode. if you can find me somewhere to send a clip I'll gladly recreate it again and send it to someone for viewing.

Yeah and lastly I forgot to mention this before. I have been having problems with filesizing. using the latest vdubmod(Excluding Gknot cause I know they aren't fully compatible yet) I have set a full 25 min episode to 225000Kb and then encoded it, and it came out to 25MB. now I've had it do this intermittently 4-5 times while I was testing. so I'd say every 2 or 3 encode tests it would mess up the size. I currently use-HDTV profile. Cartoon mode, VHQ1 or 4(sometimes I switch for testing purposes) Chroma Motion. all the rest are defaults.
The Xvid testing seems to be going well with alot of feedback. So I look forward to future fixes but it looks like Xvid is on the right track, in my opinion it has passed Divx as the best video codec.

[Xndo]

though i do tend to agree with marc, warsharp has its limits, but the question i would ask him is, with the extremeness of your setting, why do you want to use it, cause it can cause a 2 to 3fps loss when encoding, also msmooth used at higher settings result into a 1fps encoding time. Though i have to say, the filesize program has been there along time. I've resently tested with a few encodes and got a 30min episode undersized by 100mb's from a target size of 200mb's. The quality lose is out of this world, kinda looks like looking at a rm file at 4x2 sometimes. yes the GUI of xvid 1.0 beta 2 has alot of work to do. The old one is a better choice, cause its easy navigation. warpsharp has major affects depending on what your using. if your using deen with a3d and 8,10,2,8, it has some unwelcomed blurryness. As for your Divx Comment, to hell with that crap. 5.05 was better compaired to 5.1 or 5.1.1 it seems it renders avi's useless or gives you that lovly -100 or 100 error code in vdubmod. so Divx can bite me on that note.


Also if anyone else is haveing this problem. Xvid resently has been giving me messed up avi errors, errors like " file type unsupported, or no codec installed" this is after I changed back to the one in the GKnot codec pack. I have to mux it into a ogm before I can even view it. Funny seems as if its missing headers or something. Must be a registry problem or something.

[MajinMarc]

Originally posted by Xndo
though i do tend to agree with marc, warsharp has its limits, but the question i would ask him is, with the extremeness of your setting, why do you want to use it, cause it can cause a 2 to 3fps loss when encoding, also msmooth used at higher settings result into a 1fps encoding time. Though i have to say, the filesize program has been there along time. I've resently tested with a few encodes and got a 30min episode undersized by 100mb's from a target size of 200mb's. The quality lose is out of this world, kinda looks like looking at a rm file at 4x2 sometimes. yes the GUI of xvid 1.0 beta 2 has alot of work to do. The old one is a better choice, cause its easy navigation. warpsharp has major affects depending on what your using. if your using deen with a3d and 8,10,2,8, it has some unwelcomed blurryness. As for your Divx Comment, to hell with that crap. 5.05 was better compaired to 5.1 or 5.1.1 it seems it renders avi's useless or gives you that lovly -100 or 100 error code in vdubmod. so Divx can bite me on that note.


Also if anyone else is haveing this problem. Xvid resently has been giving me messed up avi errors, errors like " file type unsupported, or no codec installed" this is after I changed back to the one in the GKnot codec pack. I have to mux it into a ogm before I can even view it. Funny seems as if its missing headers or something. Must be a registry problem or something.

Well All I can say is it differs depending on the anime. I usually work with anime's that have an insane amount of video noise. almost to the point to where I should just put a overlay saying the people who mastered the DVD's should be shot in the head(sorry for the graphic gratuity).

Secondly I do know that the filesize problem isn't very prolific in any of the other xvid codecs. I can only assume that you have an incorrect setting or something cause I have done somewhere around 500 tests and it has hit my filesize everytime except once or twice. The new codec however is doing it blatently to me but when I reverted back to the old version the problem went away. so I can probably safely assume that it is probably a minor glitch in the codec itself.

ok and lastly it's all about settings when messing with Warpsharp. Sure it's possible to lose 3fps if you set it too high. but usually when I take my encoder to the max and use no filters other than cropping and resize I usually only get 10fps anyway. so when I add my filters(Deen, Warpsharp, convolution, Fluxsmooth among others I usually at my best cleaning settings get around 4-6fps which isn't bad considering how great the noise cleaning that these filters provide.

I'm gonna recommend you take a look at your rgistry for GKnot and Xvid, and make sure that something isn't messed up, or just format and start over if you have the time and resources. So Good luck with that.

[DaveQB]

Thanx to all developers and contributors; XviD is the best current codec going IMO.


Originally posted by Hylas
It is still there. Click on a zone and choose a quantizer (you can use non-integer values too, which is exactly what the quality rating was doing). I think, it is a lot more transparent this way and not as unpredictable as the old "constant quality" setting that relied on max and min quantizer settings.

I am struggling with this. Where is it ??? and what do you mean by zones ?? /me lost

I also, found that Beta 1.0 encodes slower then previous builds (having been using Nic's 16th of July build. It seems only 1-3 FPS. Getting QB encoding working will give me a more accurate comparision (other then that all other variables are the same...besides codec :) )

My limited use hasnt presented any errors or problems thus far.

Thanx all once again.

[m0rtal]

I've found a bug... I think :)
Last night I've playing with my AverTV and new XviD build... and found out that Chroma optimizer brokes picture - look:
http://m0rtal.offers.ru/bnw_w_croma_optimizer.jpg
turning Croma Optimizer off removes artifacts...
but this issue is actual only in Grayscale mode...

[dimzon]

Just GUI Suggestion - please add CLI (Command Line Interface) ability (like in DivX)

[DaveQB]

Originally posted by DaveQB
Thanx to all developers and contributors; XviD is the best current codec going IMO.

I am struggling with this. Where is it ??? and what do you mean by zones ?? /me lost

I also, found that Beta 1.0 encodes slower then previous builds (having been using Nic's 16th of July build. It seems only 1-3 FPS. Getting QB encoding working will give me a more accurate comparision (other then that all other variables are the same...besides codec :) )

My limited use hasnt presented any errors or problems thus far.

Thanx all once again.

i think i have found Zones. So let me get this right (and for others in the same boat as me)
if you add a Zone to start at frame 0 and set a Quantizer for it, the bitrate settings is overriden for the entire video ???
The bitrate settings dont fade out, so this makes it a big ambiguous as to whether it takes and effect or not

signed
Lost with new GUI

[mf]

Originally posted by m0rtal
I've found a bug... I think :)
Last night I've playing with my AverTV and new XviD build... and found out that Chroma optimizer brokes picture - look:
http://m0rtal.offers.ru/bnw_w_croma_optimizer.jpg
turning Croma Optimizer off removes artifacts...
but this issue is actual only in Grayscale mode...
Chroma optimizer is useless in greyscale. Greyscale means no chroma, so it's better to turn chroma opt off too.

[m0rtal]

Originally posted by mf
Chroma optimizer is useless in greyscale. Greyscale means no chroma, so it's better to turn chroma opt off too.
ok, but isn't it strange that CromaOpt generates such artifacts?

[mf]

Originally posted by m0rtal
ok, but isn't it strange that CromaOpt generates such artifacts?
Yes and no. I don't know XviD internals, but it's easily possible that when such settings conflict the chroma optimizer gets strange chroma data, causing weird effects, etc. There are only two solutions: The developer changes the code so that when greyscale is turned on chroma optimizer can't be turned on, or, the user recognizes that it's better not to use conflicting functions with eachother, and doesn't use them together :sly:.

[Alxemi]

Ok but what happens when you have a movie with both color and B/W scenes (like American History X or The Pianist or many others) If you want to use chroma optimizer in the colored parts, It´s mandatory to create zones to avoid the problem? Or the artifacts only appears when you use the greyscale setting in XviD? (in that case the solution could be not to check it and thats all)

[Teegedeck]

There should be no problem as long as you don't use these two contradictory switches at the same time. But to be 100% sure: Just test it and report back to us. ;) I'd be very surprised if XviD couldn't handle B/W-movies all of a sudden with chroma-optimizer.

[m0rtal]

Alxemi
what's the problem? just make new zone, where turn off chroma opt and turn on grayscale mode... and vice-versa :)

[Alxemi]

I will encode The Pianist tonight, with color and BW scenes mixed, everything with Chroma Optimizer and without Greyscale... lets see what happens

[Koepi]

Thanks Alxemi,

that's the spirit :-)

Best regards
Koepi

[mikeson]

Thanks all XviD devels for their great work!! :)

May I ask if it is normal that when I use Adaptive quantization, some quantizers are not integers but floats (like 3.11, 4.16 and so on)? It only happens in 2nd pass of Twopass encoding (I haven't checked Single pass) when I turn Adaptive quantization on no matter what other options are used. Checked by ffdshow's OSD.

[m0rtal]

BTW, I have minor cosmetic change proposal:
in XviD Status window in "Quant" section it would be useful to add "Average Quant" value besides "Min" and "Max" :)

[Teegedeck]

Originally posted by mikeson
Thanks all XviD devels for their great work!! :)

May I ask if it is normal that when I use Adaptive quantization, some quantizers are not integers but floats (like 3.11, 4.16 and so on)? It only happens when I turn Adaptive quantization on no matter what other options are used. Checked by ffdshow's OSD.
Yes, that's the way it's supposed to be. What you see is the average quantizer of that frame, calculated from all the blocks in the frame - which have different quantizers due to adaptive quantization.

[mikeson]

@Teegedeck: Thanks for clearing it up. ;)

[MajinMarc]

Just curious. When using custom matricies does anyone else have the problem with it crashing vdub/nandub/vdubmod 40-60% of the time? I try to stick with the basics but I'm usually heavily curious sometimes and like to mess with things I find(Filters, Matricies, programs, avs scripts(mf's slow ass mftoon,1fps no matter how fast your pc is :p). Any help would be appreciated. I'm currently using Xvid 1.0 beta 2.

[Hoschi]

@manao:

changing the fourcc does not work for VD.
HM, if you like to try it:
http://hoschi.roko.goe.net/crash.avi

its a 20 second sample (2 keyframes), 1,67 MB.

[Manao]

Hoschi : changing the fourcc to DIVX does allow VDub to use DivX5 to decode the file. But of course, first, it has to be installed on your computer, and second, it will still present some artifacts since you used GMC for encoding your clip ( at least that's what FFDshow told me ). GMC never worked well with Dev-Api-3, and was never ( I'm not sure about this ) compatible with DivX5 implementation. It's GMC which causes the artifacts. What you may tried is to install ffvfw, and use it to decode your clip ( I didn't try, I don't know if it can handle GMC properly ).

[Dreassica]

Originally posted by MajinMarc
Just curious. When using custom matricies does anyone else have the problem with it crashing vdub/nandub/vdubmod 40-60% of the time? I try to stick with the basics but I'm usually heavily curious sometimes and like to mess with things I find(Filters, Matricies, programs, avs scripts(mf's slow ass mftoon,1fps no matter how fast your pc is :p). Any help would be appreciated. I'm currently using Xvid 1.0 beta 2.

ahem... I'm getting 2fps with mftoon in the script and im only on an Athlon xp 2000+ :D

[mf]

Originally posted by Dreassica
ahem... I'm getting 2fps with mftoon in the script and im only on an Athlon xp 2000+ :D
I get 3fps average :devil:.

[MajinMarc]

Originally posted by mf
I get 3fps average :devil:.

HAHA very funny guys but I dun think my p3 1.3ghz 256MB RAM can even hope to match you guys. now if you wanna send me some free hardware be my guests. :cool: Although your filter is highly effective mf I think you might consider somehow speeding it up.......I forgot to say something.....STOP GLOATING OVER YOUR MAD SPEED... HAHA. :sly:

[Hoschi]

@ manao:

thanks, I had 5.0.1 div5 installed, but in VD that crashes. Playback is with less errors, correct. At last we know the reason for the trouble, with some time maybe the gods (aeh, developers) may help :p