Yatoshi Satsuki Real encoder GUI (new version 10.1.0)

[Sirber]

Can you post some screens?

[billou2k]

Hi,
I 've reprocessed a short clip of the sequence I've tested before and I double checked the parameters but the same ghosting appears... so I dont know what's happening really.

I've encoded the same short clip in xvid with vdub at the same bitrate (1500kbps) and I dont have this ghosting.

I'll post some screens as soon as my ftp service is back on :(, thanks for the quick reply sirber!

[Sirber]

This is strange, RV10 never created ghosting for me :confused:

[Shinobu]

with my gui avs files are not filtered at all (exept if you use codec option as noise edge filtering ...) => it can't be my gui, but i've never have this problem .... can you post some shot of the source script (with vdub) and of the encoded real file ?


++

[billou2k]

Sirber: Yes I know it's not supposed to create ghosting.. it s really weird, I've done some tests with rv9 a few months ago and I didnt have that problem.

Shinobu:I've uploaded some screenshots on my webpage
http://billou2k.free.fr/video/encoding/rv10/index.htm
(the shots are in png so it might be long to download if you are not on broadband, but I've put just 2 shots per page so it should be ok even so)

The strange thing is that when I play the avs and the xvid encoded from it: it has no ghosting then I can't see any reason why it appears in the rv10 encoding...weird...

[Shinobu]

Sorry but i've no idea about this ghosting, i realy don't know why it ghost ....

++

[Sirber]

could you try with RV9?

[billou2k]

yes I can give it a try.
Could you recommend an interface for me? and is there another interface I could try for rv10 as well?

[Sirber]

...

Never heard of RealAnime? :devil:

[billou2k]

I tried RV9 with rmfactory 0.35 which is the one I used before. Using similar parameters than for rv10 in Shinobu's interface and it shows no ghosting.
(I've updated my webpage with rv9 screenshots)
So I dont know where that comes from...

[Sirber]

RV9 is RV10, with different EHQ mapping. In fact, RV9@85 is the very same as RV10@85.

[billou2k]

I know rv9 EHQ was renamed rv10 but I thought there might be some small differences...
well that makes it even weirder why I get that ghosting in rv10.

[Sirber]

Could you try with RealAnime?

[billou2k]

I've just tried it and it works ok as well in rv10 in real anime... strange indeed.
Just a question about it: does variable bitrate means you are doing two passes?
I havent tried it before as I thought RealAnime was a special rv encoder for anime...(didnt take/have time to check by myself;-) )

[Shinobu]

it's realy strange ... can you post a shot of my gui so i can see exactly the setting you have used, because , my gui & realanime use the same producer, so i don't understand .....
maybe you can test with container real and not matroska ?
you said you used 1500kbps average bitrate but what max bitrate did you use in my gui ?


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[karl_lillevold]

Originally posted by billou2k
However I've fed it with a simple avs file (no filter apart from open mpeg and resize) and the coded file shows ghosting artefact probably due to high temporal noise filtering and the video looks very blurred as well.
Hi, I was pointed to the page you made showing those problems. I have never seen anything like that before, except when for some reason there is strong temporal pre-filtering. The codec does not do this. Producer has an option to enable a temporal pre-filter, I never recommend to use it. Also, as you know, RV9 and RV10 are really the same encoder, just different encoder complexity settings, and the fact that there is no problem in RealAnime, indicates the problem lies outside the codec. There are few things to look into
1) check the actual Avisynth script being used
2) view this in Vdub to make sure the source looks fine
3) check the audience file and cmd line options being used
3) run producer on the cmd line with these as input
I am not sure where the files in 1) and 2) are stored using Shinobu's tool though.

[billou2k]

Ok Shinobu , I made a capture of your gui's settings before encoding. For the max bitrate I'm using 4000 kbps
Also I tried both real and matroska wraping, and played both in Realoneplayer and MPC but it didnt change anything. I understand it sounds weird and I cannot understand it myself ...:confused:
(Please excuse me in advance for all the trouble if I did a stupid mistake:) )

karl: thanks for your comments.
1) The avisynth script im using is the exact same (and the only) one I used for all my tests (xvid, rv10,rv9) and the capture I did were using this script.
here it is:
----
LoadPlugin("C:\video\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\backup\backup.d2v")
TRIM(3800,4200)
crop(0,76,720,424)
LanczosResize(720,288)
----
2) It looks fine in vdub and in mpc and so do the xvid, rv9 and rv10 RealAnime encodings.
3) the command line used is
start /b /low /wait producer.exe -j "C:\Real producer 10 GUI\producer10\1.rpad" -lc e,d
Helix DNA(TM) Producer 10.0 Preview Build number: 10.0.0.74
Diagnostic: "producer.exe -j C:\video\Real producer 10 GUI\producer10\1.rpad -lc e,d" command line being run
Diagnostic: --------- Input File Properties from rn-avfile-directshow
Diagnostic: Input Filename: C:\backup\clip720x288.avs
Diagnostic: File Size: 0KB
Diagnostic: Total Duration: 16.040
Diagnostic: Video Track
Diagnostic: Dimensions: 720 x 288
Diagnostic: Frame Rate: 25.000 FPS
Diagnostic: Format: YV12
Diagnostic: Duration: 16.040
Diagnostic: --------- End Input File Properties
Diagnostic: Load Level Headings: Reference Time, Stream Time, Delay, Interval Load, Average Interval Load, Processing Load, Stream Interval, Reference Interval, Accrued Delay, Average Delay, Load Level
Diagnostic: Using S.Y.RPG Audience
Diagnostic: Using video codec: rv10 (1536000 bps)
Diagnostic: Setting video packet size to 15000
Analysis: 22% Errors: 0 Warnings: 0

3) shinobu: the audience file is the 1.rpad file in the producer directory (used as a parameter in the command line?)
I've ran it using a command line as well (I checked the right avs was in the rpad file)
and the video was still ghosty.

However I found those lines from the 1.rpad file quite strange:
<prefilter xsi:type="videoNoiseReductionPrefilter">
<enabled type="bool">true</enabled>
<level type="string">high</level>
<pluginName type="string">rn-prefilter-videonoisereduction</pluginName>
</prefilter>

So I created a 2.rpad file with
<enabled type="bool">false</enabled>
Then I ran it through the command line
and... it was perfect! I cant see any more ghosting!

After a few tries, it looks as if I change the "video noise prefilter" option even once and put it back to "none", the rpad file will be saved with video noise prefilter "true" and "high" rather than "false"
So running producer through command lines and manually editing the rpad file with video noise prefilter : false gives me a correct video
but I cant get it working ok with shinobu's interface as the rpad file created always (for me at least) sets the video noise prefilter to "true" and "high"

Does it make sense?

(sorry for the long post I wrote it as I did my tests)

[Sirber]

looks like a bug in Yatoshi Satsuki GUI :D

[karl_lillevold]

that pre-filter (Producer's "High") will definitely create artifacts like that. Glad you figured out where it came from. Thanks!

[Shinobu]

Ok sorry , that a trad bug ^^'
I've updated the gui and now it ok ^^

+ Version 10.1.0
correction of a bug that alway enable the video noise prefilter

http://satsuki.yatoshi.free.fr/download.htm


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[billou2k]

Ok!
Glad my weird discovery could help fixing a bug! ;-)

[h9903209]

some problems about newest version in my computer:

1. The newest version still has translation problem in my computer, the words within "====" after pressing validate still not translated, anyone else has got the same problem? T__T

2. also the same in the popup box when press load defaults and the words in the popup box after pressing on a validated file to try to remove it (which fails to do so... why not? how to remove the validated file except close the GUI and reopen it?)

3. btw, do you mind explain a bit more about direct encoding? how do it relate to "use avisynth" and "force direcshow" in realanime? why I can encode ape in your GUI while cannot in realanime? and when should I choose video (video only?) in direct encode?

[Sirber]

encoding ape?

if DShow can read it, producer can do also. RealAnime is just sending data with no pre-processing to producer.

[Shinobu]

+all trad bug will be solved when the merge will donne
+you can't remove a file witch have been validated (that's why you have to validate to confirm your setting ^^)
+in direct encoding mode i "feed" producer with the file without any use of avisynth at all (because some file bug or aren't decoded at all by directshosource but are by producer itself)


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[datascab]

Hey Shinobu,

When I encode with other GUI's, if i specify a bitrate of say 1323kbs producer uses 1323000 bps.

With yours producer uses 1354752 bps which is bitrate * 1024.

I always thought bitates which k meant *1000 not *1024 (which is the norm for file sizes).

Do you have a bug here?

Data

[damrod]

normally kb = 1024 bytes...
in cas of producer i'm not sure... maybe we should check audiences of realproducerbasic10...

<done...>
<avgBitrate type="uint">1500000</avgBitrate>
<maxBitrate type="uint">3000000</maxBitrate>
for 1.5M VBR download.rpad

so for real 1kb = 1000 bytes...

shinobu has a bug... shinobu has a bug !!! :-ppp

[Sirber]

It will use *1000 soon, since it's merging with RealAnime.

[datascab]

Yeah but your 1.81 is making a 25fps source have a 30fps header (i assuming so since it plays as 25fps).

Data

[datascab]

Real GUI has just returned fps = 30.

I noticed that the maxfps was 30 though.

Could this be the culprit?

Data

[datascab]

Yeah its the maxfps setting the fps for the source.

This would seem to be a bug in producer then?

Surely it should know the output fps instead of declaring it at the maxfps limit?

Data

[Sirber]

if the fiel play at 25FPS, what is the big deal?

[h9903209]

Originally posted by Shinobu
+in direct encoding mode i "feed" producer with the file without any use of avisynth at all (because some file bug or aren't decoded at all by directshosource but are by producer itself)
++

1. so if I uncheck "use avisynth" and "force direcshow" in realanime then it should be the same as direct encoding in your GUI?

2. Also, under what circumstance should I choose video (video only?) in direct encode?

[Shinobu]

1)I'm not sure , i've not study this part of realanime code
2)in direct encode audio is for audio only files and vidéo is for video file (with or without audio file) because the job file isn't the same if you encode audio only file so :
=> audio for audio only files
=> vidéo for all the file witch include a vidéo ^^

++

[h9903209]

ic, thx, because don't know why realanime cannot convert ape while your direct encoding can.

and just try to use direct encoding video to test convert .dat and fail... ^^ give up. ^^

[damrod]

i think about something

ape is audio_only files....does realanime handle audio-only files??

do the directshowsource manage audio files?? or only video files?

[Sirber]

it does, if you use the right checkbox...

[h9903209]

oh, can you explain a bit more about when I should use avisynth and when I should use force directshow?

I disable video box and try all combination of "use avisynth" and "force directshow" but seems still fail...

[Sirber]

LOL

Isn't Force Directshow in "Use AVISynth"? :p

www.avisynth.org

Read about AVISource and DirectShowSource.

[h9903209]

too much and complicated for me to read... T__T

can you simply tell me which box I should check for converting
1.ape? (seems all combination fails in my case...)
2.dat? (seems can start encode no matter check force directshow or not, so should I check it?)

[Sirber]

1. Uncheck audio, don't use AVISynth
2. Uncheck AVISynth

If both files can be played in MPC, producer can convert them.

[h9903209]

ape fails no matter what...

dat convert succeed even check or uncheck force directshow...why??? but then why cannot convert dat in Yatoshi Satsuki Real encoder GUI or direct encode? strange... many things don't understand... T__T