6ch Wave to dts with BeSweet (thread split)

[kempfand]

Does -6chfloat handle multichannel waves > 4 GB ?

I'm having some premature termination with a 4.64 GB multichannel wav (32bit floating-point output from Bidule), which contains 78 mins of Audio.

Demuxed (mono) wavs are only 11 minutes.

BeSweet v1.5b23 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/14/03 , 04:39:01.

C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input m:\CDImage_BiDule_32.wav -output i:\Out_32_- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : m:\CDImage_BiDule_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:10:54:621] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:32:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/14/03 , 04:39:33. Kind regards,

Andreas

[Shayne]

I would like to re-hash the wave clipping problem again in a hope that DSPguru can shine a little light on it for me.

When i produce 32 bit 6 channel wave file and then demux it into 6 waves with

D:\Video\AAC_Encode\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\Surround\Temp\Temp6Ch.wav" -output "D:\Surround\temp\temp_" -type wav -6chfloat )

i get .002 to .004 seconds at the beginning of the waves that is clipped right out. This of course is not a good sound for spdif out and my speakers.

if i load the 6 ch wave into soft encoder this clip does not exist.

Can anyone see something i am doing wrong. Possible wrong besweet version? maybe a format c: could help?

Peace

[kempfand]

Do you stil have the clipped issue with the latest version of Bidule ?

If yes, I suggest you currently go for 16bit output of Bidule. I can barely hear a difference vs. output in 32 bit and subsequent -6chfloat in BeSweet (maybe it's just my "average" speakers). Keep in mind that feeding 32-bit into Bidule (for the VST-processing) is more important IMHO.

A format c: wont help :rolleyes:

Kind regards,

Andreas

[Shayne]

yes i do still have this problem with the new and the .1 versions and at 16 bit i do not have this problem but do hear the difference. 32bit is the way i would like to go.

Thank you for your quick response

Peace

[kempfand]

// off-topic on //
Guess we have to live with such things that are not perfect, and patiently wait for improvements.

I.e. on my side, now that Bidule 6.501+ is out, I wanted to go to convert some of my favourite CD's, but (surprise surprise) I found out that they are all such that they result in >2 GB (with 16-bit) or >4 GB respectively (for 32-bit) ... :devil:

So I either have to split or use wav2wav6 (without the nice BeSweet -g max for normalisation).

Disclaimer: This is in no way ment to 'demand' or 'request' immediate action from the side of the tool-wizzards (DSPGuru, David&team), as I fully realize that such behavior is dis-respectful and kills additional work (as happened with DVD Shrink).
// off-topic off //

Regards,
Andreas

Edit 12/16: changed from -g max to -g peak

[DSPguru]

don't use "-g max" but use "-g peak"! this is faster and supposed to avoid the click at start.

sorry kempfand, haven't found the time to look for your bugreport.

[Shayne]

Thank you for your help it is always great to have the people that know the software aid in your problems.

no normalization i have click
g peak i have click
g max i have click
g 14db i have click

What is weird if i open the bidule file in soft encoder and encode it as is and load the ac3 file into besweet and set to five waves there is no click of the waves after demux.

so i think i have a problem with the dd Wave that bidule is creating or with the demux process of besweet (1.5 b23) of 32 bit dd wave files.

thanks again

peace

[daphy]

I´ve never used softencode with the bidulefile (6channelWAV) -

some questions on this:

are you able to split with softencode (bidule WAV into 6 mono WAVs)?

is the channel mapping right if you open/split the file with softencode? :rolleyes:

problem with the dd Wave that bidule is creating

it surprises me to read that bidule makes dd files :confused:

CYA Daphy

[Shayne]

Soft encoder is a Wave ====> ac3 program used first here by the dark avenger with DVD audio encoding to down sample dd to 2 channel. I takes 6 waves or 1 6 ch wave as input. It allows you to pick what channel is what channel and shows you 5 Wave forms similar to cool edit. you can demux 1 at a time and do some .... but no it is not as sweet as besweet when it comes to audio manipulation.

You are right and i do apologize for calling them dd files when actually they are wave.

Peace

[daphy]

I takes 6 waves or 1 6 ch wave as input. It allows you to pick what channel is what channel and shows you 5 Wave forms similar to cool edit. you can demux 1 at a time
fine, maybe we don´t have to care about 2GB/4GB barrieres anymore! :rolleyes:

One thing´s left in theorie (sorry for only theorie -> x-mas stress, I haven´t found any time to test this myself).
Shayne, how do you manage the channel mapping? This might be a real problem, can you please post a screen shot with an opened 6wav file in softencode and the correct mapping ;) . I ´ve spent so much time on this subject 'correct mapping' (in the two postings there do was a little confusion -> I always had a signal on the LFE but this can´t be possible at 5.0 :devil: ) and wouldn´t want to start again right at the beginning! thx

@ kempfand

one easy but comfortable solution could be to split the 32/44.1 source file (2.0) in parts of about 40 min and merge the splitted monofiles again before encoding to dts/ac3. I know, the works is 6 time more but the new bidule should compensate this ;)

CYA Daphy

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Shayne
I would like to re-hash the wave clipping problem again in a hope that DSPguru can shine a little light on it for me. please attach a short sample of the beginning of bidule's wave output (10k would suffice).

Originally posted by kempfand
Does -6chfloat handle multichannel waves > 4 GB ?i believe it works for files larger than 2gb (right?), but maybe not larger the 4gb.
please check attached binary, using your huge file and the "-g peak" switch.
i'll look for it.
Edit 12/16: changed from -g max to -g peak good!

[Shayne]

I think with respect we should honor this thread split and remember its name. If you would care to discuss this in the original thread this would be the appropriate place to do so and i would be more than happy to.

mapping is not a problem and the gain filter of bidule is helpful if you notice besweet average db increase is about 14 db. This is however an ac3 encoder n not a dts encoder.

DTS i have not got anything out of my spdif or my 6.1 analog as of yet except hiss ........ still searching? Q24 and B doesn't say a whole lot.

Peace

Edit ...... we must have posted at the same time "you may not post attachments" seems to be my nickname

[kempfand]

please check attached binary, using your huge file and the "-g peak" switch Did so. My conclusion is, that neither BeSweet v1.5b24pre nor v1.5b23 support demuxing of >2GB 16-bit wav (using -6ch) nor >4 GB 32-bit wavs (using -6chfloat).

As test, I used a stereo-wav of 78 min 32 sec, which was run in offline-mode through Bidule, and saved as
- 32 bit wav : "IMG_32.wav" and
- 16 bit wav : "IMG_16.wav" respectively.

Both produce prematurly terminated mono-wav's.

Logfile 16 bit BeSweet v1.5b24pre by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/18/03 , 21:08:34.

C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input m:\IMG_32.wav -output i:\DeMux_32- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g peak )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : m:\IMG_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:10:54:528] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:34:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/18/03 , 21:09:08.Demuxing starts, but the resulting 6 mono-wav's are prematurly terminated (at 10 min 54 sec).

Logfile 32 bit BeSweet v1.5b24pre by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/18/03 , 20:56:17.

C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input m:\IMG_16.wav -output i:\DeMux_16- -6ch -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g peak )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : m:\IMG_16.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------This is the complete log-file. Demuxing starts, but the resulting 6 mono-wav's are prematurly terminated (at 6 min 45 sec).

Notes:
- This also applies for "-g max" instead of "-g peak" (logfiles not attached).
- On 16-bit multichannel wav's >2GB, wav2wav6.exe works fine (except, of course, there is no pregain option).


I think I found anther bug, but need confirmation:
Using the channel-mapping as outlined in the Guide (http://home.wanadoo.nl/appyhappy/42.jpg), the 16-bit demux (-6ch) correctly maps the channels. I.e. BeSweet v1.5b24pre by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/19/03 , 00:52:55.

C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\BiD_16.wav -output i:\16-DeMux- -6ch -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : i:\BiD_16.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:40:307] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:04:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/19/03 , 00:52:59.
In my example, when running Bidule, the LFE is "empty" (i.e. silent).

Based on information earlier in this threat, I am assuming that -6chfloat gives the same channel mapping:-6chwav/-6ch/-6chfloat
Channel 1->"FL"
Channel 2->"FR"
Channel 3->"C"
Channel 4->"LFE"
Channel 5->"SL"
Channel 6->"SR"
However, using Bidule to save a 32-bit-wav, results in an "empty" (sllent) SR-channel, and an LFE-channel with audio:
BeSweet v1.5b24pre by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/19/03 , 00:53:37.

C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\BiD_32.wav -output i:\32_DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : i:\BiD_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:40:301] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:09:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/19/03 , 00:53:46.

Could be that something is screwed up here, or that I mis-understand, or that Bidule wrongly handles 32-bit wav's.... So I would appreciate confirmation of this finding.

Thanks for helping. Hope I have more time over Xmas to follow-up more quickly.

Kind regards,

Andreas

[puzio]

Hello Kempfand.

I have the same problem like You have. I am sure that it's a bug of Besweet because when I use Channelex of Mctools everything is OK(channel maping). I checked Channelex with 16,24,32, 32float 6channel input. Besweet works OK only with 16bits input.

I thing that structure of 16bits 6channel and 32bits float 6channel are simillar but not same. So DSPguru do mistake. I wrote a program for myself. My program also works OK with 16,24bits 6channel input,
but with 32bits float 6channel input my program works like Besweet - the same problem with channel mapping.


THX.

@DSPguru.
Sorry for my words.

[DSPguru]

first off,
i value your time, kempfand! plese don't waste it on 16bit waves or "-g max". those modules hadn't been updated for a very long time, and needn't to be tested.

as for 4gb 32bit float,
just ran a test on 4.2gb float file under win2k and it worked fine for me.
the only problem i can suspect is that bidule's output is wrongly recognized as 16bit wave instead of 32bit wave, hence the wrong module is handling the file.
please attach the first 10kb of your 32bit fp wave, so i can analyze it.

regarding channel mapping,
my previous statemenat still applies, eg, channel mapping is the same for -6ch/-6chfloat and for 16/32bit inputs.

happy xmas !
Dg.

[Shayne]

@ kempfand

If channel mapping has you confused add a gain in bidule and lower/raise the volume of a channel between your guide picture.

The pentagon is a graphical picture of the surround pin outs. Then split the waves with no normalization -g(..). The result should be clear what channel you have added the gain to. Do this with each channel till you are clear.

I have to say DSPguru is correct at least for 32 bit i have not played with 16 too much.

Peace

[kempfand]

Hi Shayne,

Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, I developed the method and the guide together with EoH, so I know the channel mapping very well :p (up to the point where 2/5/1/3/4 = FL/FR/C/SL/SR made my head turning like a Dodecahedron :D ).

If DSPGuru is correct that Besweet's demuxing works same for -6ch and -6chfloat (and I assume he is correct, plus you just confirmed), this leaves 2 options: either I got sth screwed up, or Bidule/Emigrator did a strange thing.

I'll re-check later (when back home) and attach a small part of the 32-bit wav.

Kind regards,

Andreas

[puzio]

Hello Kempfand

Please demux bidule's 32bits float 6channel wave file with channelex from MCtools ( I think You know). Channelex supports 16,24,32 bits interger and float.You will see that Bidule is OK. Then You can Wavegain to loudness normalize 6 mono file as a album.

Please check it with me.

THX

[kempfand]

@puzio: This would imply the "black sheep" with BeSweet. However, it still could be that Channelex is more 'sloppy' and accepts the 32-bit wav as 32-bit, whereas BeSweet recognises the 32-bit wav as 16-bit.

I'll check this evening.

Then You can Wavegain to loudness normalize 6 mono file as a album I'll 1st need a new harddisc then :rolleyes: (just kidding).

Kind regards,
Andreas

[kempfand]

@DSPguru: So far, I've not reliably managed to split the 32-bit wav. Here is the log-file as far as it goes: M:\>Besplit -core( -input IMG_32.wav -prefix Check- -type wav -a ) -split( 0 20 40 )
BeSplit v0.9b6 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSplit -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : IMG_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Channels Count: 6, Bitrate: 8467kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Prefix : Check-
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:00:00:000] | Starting address = 0x2c.
[00:00:20:000] | Writing Check-01.wav

M:\> This produces an 11 kb "Check-01.wav", which I cannot however attach (..."you may not post attachments"...).

When I tried to open the file in CoolEdit Pro, it only reads up to 10 min 54 sec (same time as in the logfile posted further above). The same story when opening in Sonic Foundry Soft Encode: It opens 6 mono-wav's of 10 min 54 sec.

===

On the channel-mapping front: This is really strange. I did a small example (3 min 40 sec) and Bidule-saved as 32-bit wav.

When I open this in SF Soft Encode, the 4th channel (labelled "channel 3", as numbering starts with 0), which should be the LFE, is empty. This is correct, and implies to me that Bidule writes the file correctly.

However, running BeSweet v1.5b24 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/19/03 , 21:49:30.

C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input m:\01_BiD_32.wav -output m:\01_BiD_32-New- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g peak )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : m:\01_BiD_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:40:307] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:16:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/19/03 , 21:49:46.results in 01_BiD_32-New-LFE.wav with sound, and in 01_BiD_32-New-SR.wav without sound.

Don't know what's going on here :(

Kind regards and happy Xmas to you and the ones close to you,

Andreas

[Shayne]

is the gain function working in the latest beta?

clipping still at the beginning of center channel and some clipping in others (not all) not at start but at .0004 seconds?it appears to be getting better.

getting funny pin outs, has something changed?

thank you again for your great work

peace

[kempfand]

Just a "wild" idea: Try un- & re-installing your soundcard SW and drivers... Maybe this helps.

Good luck,
Andreas

[puzio]

Hello All.

Sorry but I want to tell You that BESWEET DOESN'T SUPPORTS 32BITS (INTERGER OR FLOAT) INPUT OR OUTPUT FILES (2CHANNEL OR 6CHANNEL). It's the result that Output mapping and Output quallity is no good.

The second, don't use BESWEET to gain output files because it's only peak normalization. You can not be sure that every songs will have the same loudness.

Please remember as EoH says, when We convert stereo2dts5.1 We need quallity and only quallity. We are happy that Bidule has offline now and I thing is enough for us.

THX

@DSPguru sorry.

[kempfand]

@puzio: BeSweet & 32bit worked fine with Bidule_0.6, using -6chfloat and -ota( -g peak ). It looks like the problem here is not BeSweet. As mentioned above, it could easily be a change in Bidule output of 32-wav. We'll see ;)

@ All: Going with BeSweet is still my current recommendation. For the moment, you can safely Bidule-write 16-bit wav's, and process these as outlined in the guide. BeSweet has the advange of
- directly converting into dts_wav
- ssrc-upmix to 48 kHz for feeding an AC3-encoder
- optimized usage of disc-resources and speed

Regards,
Andreas

[Shayne]

Originally posted by kempfand
Just a "wild" idea: Try un- & re-installing your soundcard SW and drivers... Maybe this helps.

Good luck,
Andreas

Well it was a good day my new amp came in, i am getting dts spdif no problem with my sound card and it appears that DSPguru is working on 32 bit float support.

How would reinstall soundcard drivers increase the peak of a wave form viewed through cool edit? and whats is SW? Thanks

Peace

[daphy]

@Shayne

Hi Shayne,

you had mentioned that SoftEncode could split the 6WAV file :o

now back to the questions:

-channel mapping
how do I find the right order out of http://www.daphy.de/ambisonic/sc.gif this?

Is this the right setting?

1=FL
2=FR
3=C
4=LFE
5=SL
6=SR

http://www.daphy.de/ambisonic/sc2.gif

-saving as single 6 monoWAV
I haven´t found the necessary option to save those single files, maybe you can give me/us a hint!

THX

CYA Daphy

[kempfand]

@Daphy:

Is this the right setting? This depends on how you set up your Bidule wireing. If you did as


for BeSweet in the Guide (http://home.wanadoo.nl/appyhappy/42.jpg) , then yes, this is the correct setting.

@Shayne: i am getting dts spdif no problem with my sound card I guess this applies to files with *.dts-extension, not for dts_wav (with *.wav-extension).

How would reinstall soundcard drivers increase the peak of a wave form viewed through cool edit? and whats is SW? As I said: It was just a "wild" suggestion, not a sulotion. But I've experienced this kind of procedure to help (even if it wasn't "logical").

Kind regards,
Andreas

[Shayne]

@ Daphy

When you open an ac3 file it creates 5 pcm Waves in the temp directory. I said it not sweet.

ADD gains 3 (doubles > 10 db) to your bidule graph. Pin your fronts Through 1 gain, Your rears through the 2nd and the center through the 3rd.

look at your Pentagon for the correct pin outs of the Emigrator into the gains. reduce one gain c,r or f and create a wave. Split it with besweet and open besweet split waves in soft encoder and view the wave forms. Ones you have reduced (if enough) should be noticeable. Repeat to see the trend, shifting gain out around on your recorder till you get besweets format.

@ kempfand

I will try your guide thank you, is gains (- g ..) working for you at 6ch float? its not here.

Well we reinstalled the system here which included the sound card and same problems exist.

dts created with sur dvd pro and feed through the spdif of power dvd .... yes i have typed in a dts extension, amp reads dts through the optical in.

Peace

[DSPguru]

kempfand had sent me header & footer samples of latest bidule's output.
from some reason, the new waves doesn't hold a peak chunk, and it's disappointing. i hope this can be fixed.
regarding large waves - it works for me, and i can't find a clue for why it doesn't work for others.
regarding the channels drift - it's due to the change in latest bidule's wave output, it's header is different from old one's waves.
should be fixed in attached build.

[kempfand]

gains (- g ..) working for you at 6ch float? its not here Not working here either. Currently not :sly:

It worked with the early 0.6 version of Bidule though. DSPGuru is aware of the problem and I'm sure he will help for a solution.

Let's not forget that all this is beta-versins, work-in-progress. "Where no men has gone before" (so to speak in Trekkie-language).

I realise you prefer 32-bit-out, and I fully respect this. Still I argue that the key thing is to have the intermediate steps (Bidule, VST) do their work in 32-bit. This is based on extensice listening-test EoH and I did, and you can also read this guidance from audio-experts (i.e. A. Farina) in other boards.

About the noise problem in the header: Sorry I can't currently help further :mad: Only "quick & dirty" suggestion is to add a 2-sec-wav to the beginning of your track, and cut it out after all processings (i.e. before you park into dts or ac3).

Regards,
Andreas

[kempfand]

DSPGuru: Doesn't work. Tested on 2 independent tracks. Logfile for one: BeSweet v1.5b24 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/21/03 , 01:11:57.

C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.exe -core( -input h:\01_BiD_32.wav -output p:\32-DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet\BeSweet.log )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : h:\01_BiD_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:40:307] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:10:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/21/03 , 01:12:07.

Resulting LFE has audio (and shouldn't), resulting SR has no audio (and should).

Just to be on the safe side: I Bidul'ed with the latest version posted by David here in the forum (dated 12/14/2003, in the RAR modified 8:30:40 PM). Not that I imply it matters, but one never knows.

I could upload a 2 sec Bidule 32-bit-wav (ca. 2 MB, start-to-end) to the newsgroups (i.e. alt.binaries.test). Let me know.

Kind regards,
Andreas

[Shayne]

well i went through the above procedure and here are the results

pin 1 ====> pin 1 C
pin 2 ====> pin 5 FL
pin 3 ====> pin 3 SL
pin 4 ====> pin 4 SR
pin 5 ====> pin 6 FR
pin 6 ====> pin 2 LFE

This is a for sure based on the process of elimination

[kempfand]

DSPGuru: Great job :) I think we are getting there.

As far as I can judge, pure de-muxing is working, both for 16/32-multichannel wav's. I.e. BeSweet v1.5b24 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/21/03 , 21:14:18.

C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\01_32.wav -output i:\01_32-DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.log )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : i:\01_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:40:243] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:24:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/21/03 , 21:14:42. Resulting LFE.wav is empty, and resulting SR.wav has audio, both as they should. :)

Remarks & Additional Findings to Gaining:

(1) Peak chunk data: As I would expect, adding -ota( -g peak ) doesn't change gain (the current Bidule-out-wav's simply lack the info :( : Red-mark for Plogue :p ). This applies for both 32 & 16-bit-multichannel wav's.

(2) Demuxing a 32-bit-multichannel into 16-bit-out (using "-6ch") seems to work fine, both with "-g max" and "-g peak".

(3) Demuxing a 16-bit multichannel into 16-bit-out (using "-6ch") also seems to work fine, both with "-g max" and "-g peak".

(4) Further on: Demuxing into 32-wav-out ("-6chfloat") and gaining with "-ota( -g peak )" works fine . This applies to both 32- & 16-bit-multichannel-wav's to start with.

(5) @all: Note that my report on (5) was wrong. It probably works fine on other systems, and only produced 'scratchy' sound on my system when played through WinAmp.
Playing through CEP or Zoomplayer is perfect without any 'scratches'.

Lastly, the following 2 combinations produce a really 'scratchy' sound:
--> 32-bit-in demuxed to 32-bit-out with -ota( -g max )
[ i.e. C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\01_32.wav -output i:\01_32-DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g max ) ]

--> 16-bit-in demuxed to 32-bit-out with -ota( -g max )
[ i.e. C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\01_16.wav -output i:\01_32-DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g max ) ]

In other words: Whenever demuxing into 32-wav-out ("-6chfloat") and gaining with "-ota( -g max )", the resulting mono-wav's are 'scratchy'.

question on next steps deleted

Hope this little feedback was not too confusing ;) and hope I got it right.

Kind regrads,
Andreas

Note: later edits above marked in Green

[DSPguru]

4) "-g peak" works fine and this is my advised commandline, so why don't you use it ?
5) may i see the logfiles ?

[kempfand]

4) "-g peak" works fine and this is my advised commandline, so why don't you use it ? It's the preferred commandline here too, but it (currently) doesn't normalise/gain-adjust (if I understand correctly). Not that it really matters, as it's just a question of turning up the volume a bit when playing.

5) may i see the logfiles ? Logfiles follow below, but 1st let me state, that I made a mistake here, and reported an error too quickly. The sound is 'scratchy' when I play through winamp v2.9. This is what I usually do.

However, I now openend the resulting mono-wav's in CEP as well as ZoomPlayer. Surprise surprise: It plays perfectly. I don't know what's going on here, but it means for me avoiding WinAmp in the future. Sorry for that (I'll change my post above).


Logile 5a: BeSweet v1.5b24 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/21/03 , 23:42:28.

C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\01_32.wav -output i:\01_32-DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g max ) -profile( ~~~~~ Default Profile ~~~~~ )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : i:\01_32.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Overall Track Gain: 15.021dB
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:40:242] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:14:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/21/03 , 23:42:42.

Logile 5b: BeSweet v1.5b24 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 12/21/03 , 23:45:46.

C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.exe -core( -input i:\01_16.wav -output i:\01_32-DeMux- -6chfloat -logfile C:\BeSweet_T\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -g max ) -profile( ~~~~~ Default Profile ~~~~~ )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : i:\01_16.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: FL, FR, SL, SR, C, LFE
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Overall Track Gain: 15.021dB
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:39:313] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:15:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/21/03 , 23:46:01.

In summary, it works as it should. I didn't test test the 2GB/4GB-thing, but this is no big deal, as slighly over 66 mins will fit into a biduled 16/32-output (when respecting a 2GB/4GB-barrier).

Again many thanks for the quick adjustments in this busy time.
Take care,
Andreas

[DSPguru]

this is good news. cheers, kemp!

note : i updated the b24 archive.
it is now safe to always use the "-g peak". if BeSweet will find that the PEAK chunk is missing, it will use "-g max".
(so the sound will be normalized anyhow)

btw,
please encourage david to re-enable the "peak" chunk feature.

[kempfand]

Cheers, DSPGuru. It's really a pleasure to work with you.

if BeSweet will find that the PEAK chunk is missing, it will use "-g max". :cool:

Take care for now,
Andreas

[daphy]

Originally posted by Shayne
well i went through the above procedure and here are the results

pin 1 ====> pin 1 C
pin 2 ====> pin 5 FL
pin 3 ====> pin 3 SL
pin 4 ====> pin 4 SR
pin 5 ====> pin 6 FR
pin 6 ====> pin 2 LFE

This is a for sure based on the process of elimination

I can confirm at least pin 2 is definitivly LFE

[Shayne]

my results on the new beta 24B (above)

Clipping at the beginning of waves is gone here

g peak normalization is working

Pin out back to old (daphy check kempfand guide jpg previous page)

Thanks for the update ...... U the Man DSPguru

same beta number is a bit confusing with such a change

Peace

[DSPguru]

Cheers for the confirmation daphy & Shayne !
a new version number would be applied whenever more bugfixes/features are introduced ;)

[Shayne]

Originally posted by puzio
[B]Hello All.

Sorry but I want to tell You that BESWEET DOESN'T SUPPORTS 32BITS (INTERGER OR FLOAT) INPUT OR OUTPUT FILES (2CHANNEL OR 6CHANNEL). It's the result that Output mapping and Output quallity is no good.


I think we need to 5hit this man down beside my denon and ask if its 32 bit or not.

92 ripped since the latest beta2, Norm OK here. spot checks and 100% listen lfe gain -5 DB .... purrrfect ? 1010 to go ....... batchen.

Thinken cd sales r going to pick up here again. KooL

Peace and Happiness

[daphy]

@DSPGURU

we tried several times to split a 6WAV with correct mapping (without success) - then I found the latest besweet version (1.5b25) on the beta section - and all of our problems are gone :D


genius work!

Happy New Year

CYA Daphy

[Shayne]

Have you noticed that besweet will crash every time when processing a file with "(" or possibility ")" in its title.

Gui ===> Batch dts (Sur dvd) ===> multiple to multiple

I presume it is the nature of the dos command and not to much you can do about it except avoid () in titles. Would " " work?

Funny how it goes .... about the same number of DTS fit on one DVD as did MP3 of the CD's in 95.

Peace

[Shayne]

Since i got such a loud response from my last post here maybe i will ramble on some more. It appears to me that with Ambisonics 2ch to 5.1 the tricky thing is the LFE and its amplitude during the normalization process. I have a question.

Would it be possible to break the waves into 5.1 mono files and then normalize the 5 as they are dependent (equal amplitude increase) and the .1 (lfe) independent? This would for sure be the fix for the lfe channel and give the best result.

Peace

Edit typo

[kempfand]

A quick (but dirty) solution would be to demux your 6-ch-wav twice (into different directories).
-> once without normalisation : just keep the LFE, and delete the other channels
-> once with normalisation : delete the LFE, and keep the 5 main channels

Again this only applies to the pure Ambisonic, not AmbioPhonic (Stereo Dipole, HRTF etc) stuff.

Andreas

[Shayne]

This should work fine!

The dirty would be more than twice as long to do. You would have to run all waves through both programs twice and could not use .bat file pass through in besweet.

The quick? i really don't see anything in the process you mention as being quick.

I guess i was kinda wondering if its possible to implement into besweet and if anyone else thinks it would be valuable switch.

Peace

[kempfand]

Have you tried to use the "gain" VSZ inside bidule (you will need more than one, because it only has 2 pins in & out).

Then setting the main channels as they "sound" OK on the PC speakers, using a gain for the LFE you knoe is working from your experience.

Then runninh the bidule in offline mode, and BeSweeting w/o gain.

Sorry I cannot help more, as I don't use an LFE.

Cheers,
Andreas

[Shayne]

Yes that is how i am currently controlling the lfe channel but gain does not equal normalization.

Peace

[Shayne]

Hi all and the dts flows with the christmas cheer.

Hope all my friends are well and all the best in the years to come.

Peace

[banker_rishad]

KINDLY ADVISE. I HAVE PRODUCED 2CH DTS AUDIO CD WITH SURCODE BUT HOW TO PRODUCE 5.1. LOG FILE IS AS BELOW


BeSweet v1.5b31 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.9 (b922) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.2 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).

Logging start : 03/25/08 , 17:59:02.

C:\BeSweetv1.5b31\BeSweet.exe -core( -input c:\Converted Music\narinari.ac3 -output C:\WINDOWS\Temp\mono -logfile C:\BeSweetv1.5b31\BeSweet.log ) -surdvd( -b 768 -output c:\Converted Music\narinari.dts -path C:\Program Files\Minnetonka Audio Software\SurCode DVD DTS ) -azid( -g 1 ) -ota( -g peak )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : c:\Converted Music\narinari.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: c:\Converted Music\narinari.dts
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Overall Track Gain: 3.385dB
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 2/0, Bitrate: 384kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.000dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -INF, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] +------ Shibatch -----
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Dest. Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Attenuation : 0.0db
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:04:25:121] Conversion Completed !
[00:04:25:121] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 754kbps
[00:03:43:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 03/25/08 , 18:02:45.