Chinese Translation

[tin852]

@Doom9: I've contacted andante and now start to translate. That site is created before our coordinator is selected, so I just create it and test. The front page is also a testing page to see if UTF-8 unicode is working and if coordinator want, he can use anything in my site. I welcome any usage of the materials in my site.

[nan1nan1]

@doom9

i'm sorry to say that u put me in the wrong team:D:D

i'll help out to translate the Simplified Chinese version
and contact other team members ASAP.

Regards.

[Clarice]

@doom9
it's spring festival now in China so that most of my associates can't start the project immediately... :rolleyes: sorry for this, but we need some time to prepare... :( i'll contact opal,nan1nan1 &fileman, and after the project coordinator is appointed i hope we can start it as soon as the new term starts :D
Regards :)

[NetElephant]

Originally posted by Clarice
@doom9
it's spring festival now in China so that most of my associates can't start the project immediately... :rolleyes: sorry for this, but we need some time to prepare... :( i'll contact opal,nan1nan1 &fileman, and after the project coordinator is appointed i hope we can start it as soon as the new term starts :D
Regards :)

I am a member of BT Union, I am glad to do this project with my teammates
and I am sure that we have the ability to complete this project.
We are students of Bachelor, Master and Ph.D candidate.
I am a Ph.D candidate of Xi'an Jiaotong University.
Regards :):D

[Doom9]

well...I hope you enjoy the festivities. How long are they going to last?

[nan1nan1]

Originally posted by Doom9
well...I hope you enjoy the festivities. How long are they going to last?

dun worry about it :)
it's the fifth day,and three days left :)

[Clarice]

@doom9:
The new term will start on Feb.17th in Tsinghua Univ... i hope that it won't be too late... ;)

[NetElephant]

Originally posted by nan1nan1
dun worry about it :)
it's the fifth day,and three days left :)

nod, but we will be back at school fifteenth this month,
so i think we will begin the Simplified Chinese Project
in the middle term of this month.
just like Clarice said, we hope it will not be too late.
:D:D

hi, i think we have solve the problem of webspace,
we may temporarily put our pages on the Cernet(China
Education and Research Network), and we will set up
a public sever in China later. maybe have both run,
or maybe shut down the Cernet server when the public
server works.

[Doom9]

It's good to know that you've already a solution for the hosting, and don't worry about the start date, it's not too late. Enjoy the rest of your celebrations and the holidays (I presume you have some holidays in between terms, don't you?).

[NetElephant]

I'm glad to tell you that we've got a public webspace now,
which has 100M bps connection, dual P3 1.13G, 1G Memory. I think
it will reach the ability to provide service.

And I want to use china.doom9.org or cn.doom9.org to direct to our
web server. Could you tell me whether you provide the domain name
or we will do it by ourselves?

Finally, I want to know that if we have started the project,
would you like using the Five-Star Red Flag which is the
national flag of P.R.C?

yes, we will have holiday in between terms. However, it won't
interrupt the project. Don't worry about it.

Regards:)

[nan1nan1]

Originally posted by NetElephant

And I want to use china.doom9.org or cn.doom9.org to direct to our
web server. Could you tell me whether you provide the domain name
or we will do it by ourselves?


how about sc.doom9.org? sc stands for Simplified Chinese
and tc.doom9.org for Traditional Chinese version.

[NetElephant]

Originally posted by nan1nan1
how about sc.doom9.org? sc stands for Simplified Chinese
and tc.doom9.org for Traditional Chinese version.

No, I don't agree.
It's not clear to note that this page's language is chinese.
I think the www.doom9.cn is the best, but we need money to
register it.

[Doom9]

well.. you can have any doom9.org and doom9.net subdomain you'd like or you can of course also register your own domain. I'm not sure if you have to be a resident of China to register .cn domains (regulations for country specific domains depend on your country's regulations on the matter) but if you'd like an own domain maybe we can come to a financial agreement (domain registration isn't that expensive and after all what are donations good for... the page states to ensure continued existence and make it better).

As for the flag, I need to know the relationship between flag and traditional Chinese. We've been discussing flags or signs that would let somebody determine the language but haven't come to a conclusion yet. As you may know, we use the UK flag for the English version of the page, and the Spanish one for the Spanish translation (despite the original webmaster being located in Argentina if I'm not mistaken). So, what will people think when they see the Chinese flag? Not ignorant n00bs like me who before this thread didn't even know there were two Chinese languages, but people who are familiar with either Chinese. Now when I see the PRC flag I will know that the language should be simplified Chinese, but is this a universal feeling? Say someone coming from a different country that uses simplified Chinese (are there any such countries?), will he/she know to click on the PRC flag to get to a translated site he/she'll understand? If so then by all means using that flag would work. If not, are there any symbols to identify the language? Maybe the word Chinese written using traditional or simplified symbols?

[Scipio]

why would you want to use "china.doom9.org" as opposed to "chinese.doom9.org" like all the other mirros which have the language in their name and not the country (german, spanish, french.doom9.org).

thinking of that, I wonder which subdomain the second Chinese mirror will get... "tw.doom9.org" or "taiwanese.doom9.org"? hmm... ;)

[NetElephant]

Originally posted by Scipio
why would you want to use "china.doom9.org" as opposed to "chinese.doom9.org" like all the other mirros which have the language in their name and not the country (german, spanish, french.doom9.org).

thinking of that, I wonder which subdomain the second Chinese mirror will get... "tw.doom9.org" or "taiwanese.doom9.org"? hmm... ;)

so, chinese.doom9.org is not bad.:)

[NetElephant]

@doom9
Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese are not two different
languages. They are two different handwritings of Chinese.

As for the flag, I don't want to take political discussion.
But I have to say that P.R.C is the only representation to
China in U.N. So I think the flag should be our Five-Star
Red Flag without doubt.

Just like you say, how about Traditional Chinese?
In my opinion, we may link the chinese.doom9.org to a entrance
page which contains two links separately directed to
sc and tc. hehe, it's just a suggestion to let us discuss.

We've begun to translate and got a chinese public web space
yesterday. I hope you will see our sample page soon:D:D

Regards:D

[epere4]

Originally posted by Doom9
Spanish one for the Spanish translation (despite the original webmaster being located in Argentina if I'm not mistaken).
That is right. Despite the fact that I love my country flag(Argentina), I decided that the Spanish flag describes better that the site is in Spanish.

I support the idea of putting just one link (maybe with chinese flag)to chinese.doom9.org and there two links: One for sc.doom9.org (simplified) and the other to tc.doom9.org (traditional).
So you can have a common adress for the site, but then, when people get used to it, the can just tpye the right adress to get directly where they want.

Of course, this is only a suggestion.

CU

[opal]

Originally posted by NetElephant
so, chinese.doom9.org is not bad.:)
maybe gb.doom9.org and big5.doom9.org? :)
These can lead to a better understanding.

[fileman]

Just like you say, how about Traditional Chinese?
In my opinion, we may link the chinese.doom9.org to a entrance
page which contains two links separately direct to
sc and tc. hehe, it's just a suggestion to let us discuss.


That's what I suggested quite a long time before. There are many other pages which work like that...

Regards, fileman.

[NetElephant]

Hi, here is our Simplified Chinese site:
http://210.82.176.18/
There is only the first sample page on it now.
We will set up our S.C. site on this server.

As for the domain name, we can use chinese.doom9.org
direct to a entrance page and gb.doom9.org refer to
our simplified pages, big5.doom9.org refer to traditional
site. How about this doom9?
;) ;)

[Doom9]

works fine for me. It appears to be an IP based host so I could add A records without any problems. Should I put the entry page on my own servers or would you prefer to have it somewhere else (your server?)? There's also a problem with the news table right now.. it's too small (and somehow Chinese Symbols are only displayed in the left frame). Also, the links in the left frame load in the left frame, not the right one.

What do gb and big5 stand for by the way?

[NetElephant]

@doom9

Don't worry about the problems. This is only the sample one on it.
I have fixed the problem now.

I have a question which want to ask you. What's the specific meaning
of backup in Welcome to Doom9.net - The definitive DVD backup resource? Thanks.

We may keep the entrance page on our site. So:
http://chinese.doom9.org to http://210.82.176.18/entrance.html
http://gb.doom9.org to http://210.82.176.18/
http://big5.doom9.org to Traditional Chinese Pages.

Regards:)

[Doom9]

I have a question which want to ask you. What's the specific meaning
of backup in Welcome to Doom9.net - The definitive DVD backup resource? Thanks
Well.. most of my site is about making copies of DVDs, right? So I guess you could write ripping resource but then ripping isn't a well defined term and some consider it as descrambling (as in de-css), others as the whole process from DVD to the end result (DivX, (S)VCD, DVD-R). And, since in accordancy with most national copyright laws you may only copy DVDs if you are the legal owner of the disc in question, your copy is in fact a backup of the original... thus we get the definitive dvd backup resource. Needless to say that ripping resource or copying resource would also lead to unwanted associations.

[Clarice]

@doom9:
GB and Big5 are all Chinese character codings used in computer,while the GB coding stands for the Simplified Chinese character and the Big5 for the Traditional Chinese character.
the Big5 coding can't be transferred in 7bit net system directly.

[Kennyshin]

Originally posted by pighead
Traditional chinese is used in Hong Kong (but now they are converting to simplified since the "transition"), Singapore (amongst the Chinese community there), Taiwan(of course) and many other parts of Asia...it's art...if you ever see Chinese words...

And most South Koreans can read Traditional Chinese. ;)

For thousands of years, Koreans have used Chinese as the official character. Since a little more than five centuries ago, Han-Gul (Han-Korean Letter)has been in use together with Chinese.

There's also Japan.

Anyway, I am glad to see that these Chinese (both Traditional and Simplified) translation projects are initiated, the first among all East Asian peoples! Very many of my friends and school mates (mostly Chinese major at Hankuk University of Foreign Studies) in Seoul, South Korea, studied in Bei-Jing, Harebin, Guang-Jou, and other mainland Chinese cities.

The Chinese New Year's Day holiday is also the biggest holiday in most South Korean families, including mine.

[Scipio]

some thoughts:

sc.doom9.org and tc.doom9.org is free of associations in contrast to "big5" where the "big" could lead to some assumptions or misunderstandings...
besides, sc and tc is very short :) but that's of course your decision which subdomains you want.

one remark about the site where you select between the two: it should really be hosted by Doom9 himself IMHO.
If this site is not hosted on Doom9.org and the Chinese mirror that hosts that selection site goes offline, the other Chinese site would also be down... so both sites would be down just because the selection site is down - bad idea. ;)


and instead of using flags: perhaps you could use two symbols in TC and SC to describe your country? Perhaps there's a short symbol (a character of your font) that could be used instead of a flag? (that would make this selection site superfluous.

[opal]

@Scipio:
Here is a character which means "Simplified Chinese".

[opal]

And here is a character which means "Traditional Chinese".
Hope these can solve the flag problem.

[nan1nan1]

@opal

i think Scipio wont see the difference unless u show him the same charactor with two different writings:p

[pighead]

Looks like andante has translated the majority of Doom9...only some more in the following category needs more translation...wow that's fast...
DMCA¤ÀªR ±Ð¾Ç¤å³¹ ±`¨£°ÝÃD ±M¦³¦Wµü °ò¦ª¾ÃÑ

@andante-but this is only from the site that you previously posted...is there any page that you are currently working on...

Why don't you list the one's that you haven't done...so we know how to help...

[opal]

@nan1nan1
we are talking about the flags, not the difference between the writings.

[mrly]

I think we had better have a flag to stand for our language.When we click the flag,we will enter another page,you can select gb or big5 there.It's my idea.:)

GB and BIG5 is easy to understand for the Chinese.Maybe our Foreign Friends like sc and tc,but it's not fit for the Chinese people.:cool:

[NetElephant]

Thanks Scipio and others for your suggestions;)

I agree that we put the entry page on doom9's site.

As for flag, Chinese language come from China and people
seeing the Five-Star Red Flag will konw that link is to
chinese mirror. When they click the link, they will go
to the entry page. So they will choose the sc or tc site.
People who want to see chinese mirror must know GB character
and Big5 character by default. It won't make a misunderstanding.

[Clarice]

Originally posted by NetElephant

People who want to see chinese mirror must know GB character
and Big5 character by default. It won't make a misunderstanding.
yeah that's it. don't worry about this. "GB" and "Big5" is the common knowledge for the people who are interested in Chinese and computer. ;)

[andante]

@Pighead : I'm working on Glossary part, and some others are working at Divx5 basic and Subtitles...you can refer to doc-overview(¤å¥ó¦Cªí) page. I'll go back to school tomorrow after the Chinese new year festival, and I'll translate more quickly and i'll also recruit more people to translate. :p

And about the flag, i don't think the five star flag is appropriate, people who use Traditional Chinese don't think the five star page will lead them to a Traditional Chinese page, because china people use Simplified Chinese.
so i think if we can use a "chinese" flag like this http://mis.ccu.edu.tw/~holygod/ch.gif in mainpage and lead people to a portal page which can choose Simplified Chinese or Traditional Chinese.

regards:)

[Clarice]

Originally posted by andante
because china people use Simplified Chinese.

what do you mean by this sentence£¿ :p
do you think Chinese people have thrown Traditional Chinese all?
China is the cradle of all Chinese characters, and of coz most of us can read Traditional Chinese. :D
so i don't think there's any problem to use our Five-Star Red Flag :)

[NetElephant]

@andante
No, I don't agree!!

There's only One China in the world, and that flag
refers to PRC, stands for our country and also to our culture
including charactors such as simplifiled Chinese and traditional
Chinese. Of Coz we can share the Five-star flag.

Other mirrors all use the original country's flag to
represent their languages. Chinese language origined from
China. So we must use the national flag of P.R.C to the
chinese both simplified and traditional.

ÊÇѽ£¬ÎÒÃÇƽʱʹÓüòÌåÖÐÎÄ£¬µ«ÊÇ£¬
ÎÒ‚ƒÒ²ÄÜé‡×x·±ówÖÐÎÄ£¬Ò»üc†–î}¶¼›]ÓС£

Regards

[Kennyshin]

North Koreans also speak and write different Korean from South Koreans. Of course, there are very few North Koreans who ever come to Doom9.org.

As I said earlier, not only Taiwanese read Traditional Chinese. Koreans and Japanese can read some of them, too, though they have their own characters as well. Some South Koreans can read Chinese better than they can read English as learning the Chinese characters had for millenia been required to all literate people and sometimes legally obligatory at schools.

To choose only one out of two (or more) Chinese characters or flags will always lead to the same arguments.

Moreover, both the Chinese characters used in Taiwan and in mainland China are different from those used in Japan and in South Korea, to a different degree. It needs pan-Asian cooperation as the Chinese character does NOT belong only to the Chinese people just as English does not belong only to England or only to the United States.

There are also Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and so on.

I agree to andante and I also agree that this thread should be split into two separate threads to discuss each. One for Simplified Chinese and the other for Traditional Chinese. PRC national flag may be used for the Simplified Chinese link and ROC national flag may be used for the Traditional Chinese link.

PRC = mainland China (People's Republic of China)
ROC = Taiwan (Republic of China)

PRK = North Korea (People's Republc of Korea, or DPRK, for Democratic People's Republic of Korea)
ROK = South Korea (Republic of Korea)

I also have difficulty in understanding the North Korean language in both speech and writing. PRK also has its own national flag.

[opal]

@Kennyshin:
Taiwan is NOT a country and it will never be.
YOU ARE NOT CHINESE, SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO TALK ABOUT OUR OWN AFFAIRS.

[Doom9]

@opal: please be nice to each other, there's no need for screaming.

So far your solution with the two different symbols that stand for traditional and simplified chinese seems to be the best shot. It avoids any political reprecussions that could occur when having to chose a flag for Traditional Chinese. Please keep in mind that I'm not interested in making politics with this.. and the PRC - ROC discussion should be left to politicians.
Alternatively, use the Symbol for Traditional Chinese for the Traditional Chinese and the PRC flag for Simplified Chinese. I'd assume people speaking Chinese would know that Simplified Chinese is used in the PRC.

@andante: what do these symbols stand for?

Oh, and by the way, I'll be adding alt tags to the links anyway so if you hover over a symbol/flag for a second or so an English text would be displayed.

[Clarice]

Originally posted by Kennyshin

I agree to andante and I also agree that this thread should be split into two separate threads to discuss each. One for Simplified Chinese and the other for Traditional Chinese. PRC national flag may be used for the Simplified Chinese link and ROC national flag may be used for the Traditional Chinese link.

PRC = mainland China (People's Republic of China)
ROC = Taiwan (Republic of China)


I'm sorry to remind you that there's only one China in the U.N. which is the People's Republic of China. :) I don's think that any of us want to bring any political problems to our http://www.doom9.org, but can you imagine what will happen when the Chinese people see the so-called ROC flag on this site£¿
It's not good for us, not good for Doom9 either. :(
Well, as a girl, i don't like politics, but there's something i'll stick to. So will my partners.
Finally, though we don't use Traditional Chinese Characters widely in the mainland nowadays, here is the cradle of it. So, please don't separate it from China. The whole world is shareing it.

Regards :)

[opal]

@doom9 and all others:
sorry for the inconvenience.
But we really have something we must stick to, as Clarice said.

PS: the image u asked means "Chinese"

[Doom9]

Okay, I have gone ahead and created one thread for each Chinese translation, please continue discussion there. Your main jobs have been listed. I'll create a separate thread regarding the flag issue shortly.

Traditional Chinese Thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=257731#post257731
Simplified Chinese Thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45388

[andante]

YES, you all have something to stick to, and ME, TOO!
I didn't and i don't want to bring political issues here, but you all have strong political intention.....i just say that the five star flag can only represent Simplified Chinese pages and not suitable for Traditional Chinese, maybe someone still use Traditional Chinese in PRC, but Simplified Chinese is the main written word in PRC, so using PRC flag can't represent both Traditional and Simplified Chinese page and people who use Traditional Chinese can't agree with that, too.

[Kennyshin]

Originally posted by opal
@Kennyshin:
Taiwan is NOT a country and it will never be.
YOU ARE NOT CHINESE, SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO TALK ABOUT OUR OWN AFFAIRS.

You'd better apologize for that remark of yours before I remind you of some historical facts.

As should be clear to everyone with reason, I am just trying to helping you with what I can and this "affair" does concern me greatly. Can you feel what I as a South Korean feel when you seem to ignore the very presence of Taiwan so aggressively?

Why do you think I can read and write Chinese characters at all? The "Shin": doesn't this look as Chinese as your own family name?

Some of you seem to be extremely motivated by politics even though all of you say you don't want to bring politics into Doom9. Don't forget this is an English forum for every nation and every country. The "Chinese" meant in Doom9 forum means the language rather than nationality and loyalty to which government so I DO have some rights on this matter and even disregarding that, everyone is entitled to opinions here as long as keeping the forum rules and remaining respectful and courteous.

[Doom9]

well.. the flags poll is here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45414
Cast your vote. And please, this isn't the place to discuss either such controversial politics nor history. I'm sure we're all proud of our respective nations and each and every country has some spots on their vest but that's no reason to get all upset about it. I think the arguments have been made, now it's time for the vote, there's plenty of options so that everybody should find something that he/she can live with.

[Kennyshin]

THG (Tom's Hardware.com)

http://club.kbench.com/files/1/789337/flag.jpg

[Doom9]

@Kennyshin: that's the old version which they've dumped now.. but you can suggest that as an alternative in the poll ;)

[Scipio]

they haven't dumped that version - it's still available in the mirrors:

http://www.gb.tomshardware.com/index.html => This one is Simplified, so the flag/symbol you see in the selection is the one for the Traditional Chinese translation.

I'd suggest takting this solution with those characters just like on THG... though I don't claim to be objective here I doubt that any of the Chinese/Taiwanese/Korean guys in this thread can be objective here... so it's up to you and symbols are as free of political allusions as it gets.


here are the "flags" taken from there:

[Scipio]

the one above was for Simplified Chinese
----



< edit: I have reduced the size of them to pixel height 15 >


and this is the Traditional Chinese symbol: