Chinese Translation

[pighead]

Don't worry about me...i'm just being stupid......ha ha ha...I guess it is kind of hurtful seeing some of those replies...i realize doing this kind of work...it's inevitable to receive certain criticism...I just wasn't prepare for the degree of it.(Truth hurts I guess) But I still would love to do this, I guess it would help me and a lot of other people to do so, so far I know two other people who want to do this, so i guess we are it.
so first thing first, everyone, We need some help :D :

1)Apparently there's an easier way to show chinese traditional font to all kind of user(Chinese or Non-Chinese based platforms), please tell me how.

2)Since geocities is the only web account I can provide so in order to provide "chinese traditional" translation services for users in China would someone kindly provide us with a place to put all the pages, or tell us where to signup for one (keep in mind that I don't have Frontpage or any kind of web builder thing-y )...

3)I know I'm not an expert in java,I don't know if the other two team members are, or perhaps there's an English speaking htm expert who's willing to spend his/her time with us in building this translation site...I know my grammer sucks, but if you can understand this posting, it's highly possible that you can communicate with us,please let me know...muchas gracias!

Joey

p.s. I apologize for my rudness and offensive language and not following the forum rules and a lot of other things. If you want to kick me out, I understand:( ...oh, and big thanx fileman(for the encouragement), stay cool!:cool:

[Scipio]

Good idea,

perhaps you'll find support among 1 Billion Chinese people out there ;) But there's no need TO USE ALL CAPITALS IN YOUR TEXT. That's not very pleasant to read.

it's also a forum rule...
9) Use a title that describes the content of your post. Don't use all caps or special characters to draw attention.

[Doom9]

@scipio: I think there's a reason why people from Asian cultures often use all caps, I just don't know what the reason is.

@pighead: rest assured that your efforts are much welcome here and I'll try to recruit some volunteers for you by putting the link to this thread in the news for tomorrow.

[Sadamitsu]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doom9
[B]@scipio: I think there's a reason why people from Asian cultures often use all caps, I just don't know what the reason is.

I don't know about Chinese, but when using the Japanese IME to type, you can only type western characters with caps unless you have the English IME installed.

[fileman]

I'd like to see a chinese translation of doom9.org very much! I've got some chinese friends, but they are all "noobs" in terms of Divx / SVCD /... stuff, so I'll not ask them to translate, but they could benefit a lot of the translated result (just look at these very poorly encoded kung fu movies all around ;-).

Regards, fileman.

[nan1nan1]

good idea..
but i think u'd better move ur site out of geocitie if u want ppl to see ur work,coz this site is banned in China :)

if u need any help,mailto: nan1nan1 at myrealbox dot com
good luck :)

[Scipio]

@nan1nan1:

if you want to offer your help, I'd suggest you write him an email or send him a PM... if he has to contact all volunteers he'll soon be annoyed. :)

[Blkbird]

I like to point out that current translation is in Taiwan Chinese. Not only does it use tranditional Chinese charaters (which is OK), but the sample frontpage translation also uses specific (non technical) phrases impossible to be understood by the majority of Chinese people. It would be a good idea to avoid them.

Btw, the translation of "DMCA" is clearly wrong.

Greetings,

Blkbird

[fileman]

Blkbird, perhaps you could help him with the translation, and try finding other Chinese people, too? If I could write chinese (I can only speak a little), I'd be very glad to do that translation, because really many people could benefit of this work!

Regards, fileman.

[lyl797]

Hi, Need translation to Chinese .... Let me help ...

I am a native Chinese guy ... speak fluent English and stay in USA for 15 years, now a USA citizen.

My e-mail LeonLien@adelphia.net ...

Write to me and let me know what I can help ...

LYL797

[Jeff_happy]

hi hi~

about the translation,

i'll be very happy to help u

Jeff_cry@hotmail.com


:)

[fileman]

Umm... seems like pighead doesn't want to organize this translation project anymore due to some replies that took away his motivation...

I would be very sad seeing this project dying, but I can't help very much, because I can't write chinese :-(

Perhaps Jeff_happy wants to start up again and organize this project? You seem to be motivated! Or how about lyl797?

I was involved with the german translation project, and I know: the hardest thing is the start. If you manage to do this, and people see you have invested some time (for example because they see there are some pages already translated), they will be motivated to help, too.

Surely your work will be honoured... think of the millions and millions of people who would be able to read them, and therefore encode better movies!

Regards, fileman.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

似乎象pighead 不要组织这个翻译项目再由于拿走了他的刺激的一
些回复。

我会是非常哀伤的看这个项目死, 但我不可能非常帮助, 因为我不
可能写中文 :-(

或许Jeff_happy 要再开始和组织这个项目? 你似乎被刺激! 或lyl797 怎么样?

我被介入了以德国翻译项目, 并且我知道: 最难的事是开始。 如果你设法做这, 并且人们看见你被投资某个时候(例如因为他们看
见有一些页已经被翻译), 他们将被刺激帮助, 也是。

肯定你的工作将被尊敬。.. 认为能读他们的成千上万和成千上万人, 并且输入因此更好的电影!

问候, fileman。

(I guess it's a rather bad translation... a machine did it for me *g*)

[Scipio]

@ pighead:

perhaps you should reply in a new message.
It's a bit unusual to edit the first posting, since new readers won't understand the following postings anymore... (for example my all capitals posting).

[pighead]

Sorry, won't do it again...
for new readers,
My first message was to inform everyone that i have a test chinese translation page that I started for doom9 (only the index, you didn't missed much, it was all wrong anyway:( )..oh this message was in all capitals, so it's against the rules and I didn't know...so I appologized for it and explained that it was because I got lazy and didn't swtch back from chinese Global IME in the second message.
My second message was to tell everyone that I had deleted that page due to certain problems, somepeople can't read the font, or because it was a geocities site , it is banned in china...etc. again, you didn't missed much.

[intoxicated]

hi everybody..
5 days of waiting after I registered to this forum.....
i can now finally post something....:D
but it seems pighead is not willing to continue the project...:confused:
i'd like to parcipitate in the chinese traslating project...
isn't it great to let every chinese know about doom9? :D
maybe we should talk about it on msn or icq...

[andante]

Hi~
like intoxicated,after waiting 5 days that i can finally post.. :D
and i'd like to help translating, too.
it seems that Pighead has some obstacles here...
i think the first step is most important,so these must be someone to lead the project...maybe intoxicated can? or maybe i can help..
lets talk on msn.:)
my msn:holygod777@seed.net.tw
but i'd like to ask a question about web space...i'm not sure that we must have our own webspace to put the translated web site or we can put it on doom9?

[Doom9]

if you have your own webspace that would be advantageous, however, if you can't find anything we can put it on a spare server of mine for starters. But eventually when you have tens of thousands of visitors every day you should find your own hosting so it can't hurt to look around. Downloads are (at least for the moment) hosted on my servers anyway and that makes out the bulk of the traffic.

[andante]

OK, i understand:) i'll find a webspace.
and there is a little problem...
since i'm a Taiwan citizen, i want to translate in Traditional Chinese, and China use Simplified Chinese. and there are other countries use Chinese...either Traditional or Simplified.
well, all i want to say is that we can't use a single flag to present the Chinese doom9 site. And the flag will be used in my doc-overview page and all language sites' frontpages.
So i think that's a problem...

[fileman]

I don't think this is a big problem ;-)

Just place a "blank" page between the language selection flag on doom9.org and the two "real" chinese translation projects. On this "blank" page are two links, one for simplified and one for traditional ...
I've asked a friend of mine to translate a few pages (to make a start) with my help... funny thing - she doesn't know very much about the stuff we're doing at doom9, and I don't know much about chinese, but together it will probably work :-) This will be simplified chinese, because she's from the "continent".

Webspace won't be a big problem, too - at the beginning. Later on somebody should find good + cheap webspace in China/Taiwan.

Regards, fileman.

P.S.: I'm very busy these days, but in two to three weeks I'll have more free time. Feel free to contact me via e-Mail (f.i.l.e.man AT gmx.net) or via PM.

[Doom9]

I'm sure we can find a way to incorporate two Chinese versions of my site. Forgive my ignorance, but is there any relationship between traditional/simplified chinese and cantonese/mandarin (yeah, I know, that's completely off topic but I've always wondered).
Is there any prototype country using traditional Chinese? Maybe we could do something like we do with the English version... we use the British flag as a lowest common denominator for all countries having English as the official language.
And as I said, temporary webspace is no problem, I rather see the project get started than people looking for hosting all over the place. But then again it can't hurt to have a provider you can rely on so you won't have to go looking for another hosting when you should be coordinating translations.

[fileman]

@doom9

Mandarin and Cantonese are the two main spoken dialects in China (Mandarin is the "official", Cantonese is spoken in Hong Kong). All thousands of dialects in China do have the same written signs. There was a "simplification project" during the 60s or 70s, where the Chinese government simplified some (many) signs, so they were easier to write, being typed, and so on. However Taiwan, as it always doesn't want to do what the Chinese government wants, ;) didn't switch to these simplified signs, and so today there are two ways of writing in China. Although many Chinese (from the continent) people can read traditional signs (because they are in older books and so on), but people from Taiwan and others often can't read these simplified ones...

Regards, fileman.

[Scipio]

But then again it can't hurt to have a provider you can rely on so you won't have to go looking for another hosting when you should be coordinating translations.

He's perfectly right here, believe me. :(

It's not funny if you can't be happy about increasing visitor number because of additional costs from traffic overusage...
German Doom9 also had these problems till today. Now we're entering a new era of (hopefully) troublefree hosting.


@ Doom9 and all other translators:

may I bring your attention to my question in this thread?
=> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27697&pagenumber=2

[andante]

@fileman
That's right :) , but may i have some opinions here :rolleyes:
I think the written words or written languages is about one nation's culture, it can't be easily changed without consideration...all chinese words are evolved from pictograph, each has it's means....
By the way, Simplified chinese is not too hard for taiwan people...if see them frequently :p

@Doom9
Maybe we can use Taiwan R.O.C flag....althought few people know, but Taiwan is a Country :D , and is the main country using traditional Chinese.

[Doom9]

@andante: that's an idea.. but I need to gauge possible reactions of continental Chinese people before I could go for it. I know in the political area it's a big nono to consider Taiwan as an independent state and the last thing I would want is to step on anybody's toes. I only care to bring my site to a broader audience and not to make any political statement.

[andante]

ya...so i think the flag is a problem...

I've just put the website to a webspace in taiwan, and translated few pages. Here is the URL:
http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9/
if anyone can't see the page or have low speed just tell me, and any suggestion for translation plz also tell me, thx!!:)

[epere4]

Originally posted by andante
ya...so i think the flag is a problem...

I've just put the website to a webspace in taiwan, and translated few pages. Here is the URL:
http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9/
if anyone can't see the page or have low speed just tell me, and any suggestion for translation plz also tell me, thx!!:)
Well, I had no problem reaching the site, but the external links are wrong (almost all). They link to http://some_site/default.htm and not every site uses a default.htm page as a default (spanish site uses index.html, for example). So you should put only http://some_site/ (where some_site is the name of the site you want to link to, of course).

CU

[Doom9]

it works here as well, yet there's a problem with the look. The news table is rather small and the 3 small boxed to the right eat up all the space. I think the link may have had something to do with the software used to grab the site.. but epere is correct, they will of course have to be corrected.
Another presentation issue are the flags.. they aren't centered, and the left frame shows a scrollbar (you have to make it a couple pixels larger). I know, just minor issues but then again looks are important and after all this is a one time thing.
Then you can get started on the document overview page.
By the way, what other countries are using traditional Chinese? Is there any distinctive sign that would allow people to differ between the two Chinese? I saw THG has two Chinese signs for their two Chinese versions

[pighead]

Taiwan is not a country...There's no official document for this...just because the current president or party in office wants it to be so...doesn't make it so...

Traditional chinese are chosen because they represent thousand of years of culture development...I'm not about to throw my heritage and history away...may not always be proud of them....but they are in my blood...

...I can read simplified chinese just fine...I think most of the people from taiwan would agree, too.

Traditional chinese is used in Hong Kong (but now they are converting to simplified since the "transition"), Singapore (amongst the Chinese community there), Taiwan(of course) and many other parts of Asia...it's art...if you ever see Chinese words...

an extra language selection sounds like a great idea...my vote's here, no doubt, there's a large population who reads simplified chinese...and i do believe that we are all Chinese...

um...as for Cantonese, there are some words and phrases that are special for Cantonese(not used in mandarine written language)...maybe we can add some of those, too, to spice things up...(i think most of the Taiwanese people are pretty familiar with Hong Kong current fashion, they'll be able to understand...)or maybe they can start another page, too.

we can all understand each other's words...but a familiar language always speaks better...

is there an expert in the terminology department...to look up the official translation for special terms, it'll be easiear to remember those then trying to remember the english vocab...
while we are on the subject, I do believe it is essential to stay true to the origial doom9, but chinese and english are language with different base; the grammer, for one thing, are two completely different things...i hope we can all agree that for a chinese sentence to make sense(translated from english)it must contain certain variations(rather than a collection of fragments of phrases as it often becomes when use direct word-to-word translation)...there's no one right translation...what do we do about that, if disagreement arises????

guess we are making some progress...in a way...
p.s. please don't reply any comment about my personal political view, i'm not trying to change you, and I'm pretty stubborn...i just wanted to say it, is all

oh, about the flag perhaps we can use ¤¤¤å(Chinese) as a .gif in the same size as the flags, I do believe it's the same for both Simplied and Traditional Chinese.

[andante]

external links are fixed, and
@Doom9
about news table and 3 small box to the right, i don't know what browser and resolution you use, but i use IE6 with 800x600 or 1024x768 and have no such problems....or maybe u didn't download chinese big5 code?
About left frame i only have vertical scrollbar in 800x600 mode, but i made words smaller anyway.

@Pighead
I think there are many specific terms dont have standard or official translation in chinese, maybe we can make a reasonable translation and also put the original english term aside...and althought everyone's translation maybe different, if it make sence and everyone can understand it, i think that's allright...beside, i'll go some chinese forums about DVD ripping, find the proper translation and then do some proofreading works.
Finally, my english is not so good, so if any translations is not proper just correct me.:)
oh, and i think the ¤¤¤å(chinese) flag is a good idea, too.

[Jeff_happy]

haha... finally i finished my school assignment :p
and looks like pighead is not doing it~

nice one from andante!

i will also try something on it in the chinese new year :sly:

[fileman]

Yes, of course... I nearly forgot!

I wish you a happy chun jie!!
http://www.showgood.com/new/mtv_full.htm

Regards, fileman.

[Doom9]

@andante: it was partially a fonts problem. I've installed support for far eastern languages and now I do get Chinese symbols instead of some garbage. However, the space between the news table and the two boxes to the right is still large (IE6SP1 with all patches, 1280x1024 resolution). I've also tried mozilla 1.3alpha where the space is okay but the English fonts look horrible (they are quite different from the original font in IE as well.. but then again we want to see Chinese pages, not English ones so I guess that one doesn't matter much). This font issue only concerns the main page btw, all other documents are fine with stylesheet and everything.

It would probably make sense to come up with a common terminology and use this throught the translations.. especially when different people are translating different parts of a guide (for instance, the dvd2avi guide is used in many guides). I believe the Greek team also had to define additional language and character related issues because they're not using latin characters.

@pighead: Word by word translation can definitely not be the solution. I have been making some translations myself (glossary, FAQs, capture guide) and in quite a lot of instances did I have to turn sentences completely around. You also have to adapt the style to the cultural background of your target audience

[pighead]

cool, everyone seems so nice...
this is gonna be fun...
um..my English is not good either, one of my English Professor in college basically told me to go back to Taiwan...anyway

how are we gonna divide up the work, do we have enough people to just each pick one section?

:rolleyes: ...pighead sounds better in chinese...

as for showing chinese font...I guess even though most people who will be interested in reading the chinese translation should already have chinese support but there are various problems...
IE 5 has it's own IME but just for win98...IE 6 has some weird thing that sometimes messes computer up...win 2000 was a challenge and so far xp still can't support other input methods other than english...(those are what i have experienced for english based system :confused: but maybe there's an easier way and someone knows how to do it)
it wouldn't be a bad idea to have sort of an instruction page(included in the FAQ) readable to everyone on how they
should go about enabling their system to read chinese...(some of my ABC friend are very interested in browsing materials in chinese but they never could figure out how.)

if there's not much space available
perhaps each selection in the menu can be image files, while others such as news can still be in text...it may take longer to load but at least everyone(chinese platform or not) can see something...:D

[andante]

@Doom9:The problem of space between news table and right is fixed, it's my carelessness :p

@Pighead:About how non-chinese computer can see chinese, i think it's not quite complicated. Press IE's View->Coding then choosing Traditional Chinese(Big5), if you dont have the code, IE will ask you to download it. I think when you go to some other languages' webpages, this will work, too, isn't it?
And about chinese input for winXP,here (http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/ime/6.0/NT5XP/TW/TINTSETP.MSI) you can download it.
About divide up the work, when i finish the doc-overview page, you can choose what page you want to translate then tell me, i'll mark that page with "translation in process" flag.

And finally,Happy chinese new year to everybody:D . I'll quite busy this days, lots work to do like cleaning house..visiting relatives..etc.;)

[fileman]

As far as I am informed, many Chinese people use NJStar Communicator (shareware, but usable forever with nag screen) to INput Chinese characters on other OS than Chinese... and this program also enables displaying Chinese characters. It's also possible to input Chinese signs with Windows XP, at least with the German version - don't know if it's possible with the English version (but I would expect it is!).
But perhaps it would be enough to direct people to the NJStar-homepage, if they can't read the page properly (of course we have to test then, if the site is displayed correctly with NJStar). Of course most people will be from China, Taiwan and other Chinese speaking/familiar countries, where people run a Chinese OS and don't have problems with viewing Chinese content at all.

As for now, the Chinese-traditional-site looks like to be translated soon :-) many people seem to be here, ready for translating. But how about simplified? Anybody here? I only can give a start - I think I'll not be able to translate special words like "bidirectional encoding" and stuff with the help of a woman whose native language is Chinese, but who isn't very much into video encoding and so on... would be good to see some (simplified) Chinese writing supporters out there :-)

Regards, fileman.

[Doom9]

@andante: Looks good now (and interestingly the PC at work correctly displays the Chinese symbols without having to install any extras). I see you've already translated the volunteer and contact pages. It may be a good idea to note that the email addresses provided on the contact page are for the English site only - I've gotten emails destined for a translation project rather than my own site when my email addresses were still on that page. Upon becoming an official mirror the coordinator is eligible for one @doom9.org email account so you could use that.

@pighead: you're correct about the name, it does sound kinda brutal. In the beginning I thought I just misread the name.

@fileman: Once the traditional Chinese mirror goes live I'll also put out a call for volunteers to do a simplified Chinese translation.

[pighead]

Andante §A¤w¸g¶}©l½Ķ¤F¶Ü? ¥i¤£¥i¥H¬Ý¬Ý©O?...:p oh...§Ú·Q°µThe Basicsªº³¡¤À...¬Ý°_¨Ó¦n¹³¤ñ¸û²³æ:D ¥i¥H¶Ü?

½ÞÀY:cool:

[opal]

@fileman
I'd like to help you with the simplified-Chinese translation.:)
I think these "bidirectional encoding" words should remain in English. If you translate them into Chinese, then few people can understand it. You could explain these words, but you should not change it.
ÕâЩ´Ê»ãµÄÓ²ÒëÖ»Äܵ¼Ö´íÎóÀí½â¡£±Ï¾¹ÎÒÃÇ´ó¶àÊýÈ˵Äרҵ¶¼²»ÊÇͼÏó´¦Àí°É¡£

[fileman]

Yes, I thought something like that - perhaps make a huge glossary, where all these words and phrases are explaned in Chinese, but leave them in English in the text.
Ok opal, as soon as I'm going to start over, I'll contact you via PM.

Regards, fileman.

[Jeff_happy]

jsut put up one
http://home.pchome.com.tw/guide/doom9/

see if it helps to everyone

[pighead]

Jeff_happy ªºÂ½Ä¶¦nProfessional!:D

[andante]

well....I've just finished some other pages and doc-overview page (http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9/doc-overview.htm) , which explained how to translate and how to contact me, you can choose which page you want to translate and then inform me, i suggest start at basic guides.
and @Jeff_happy, you did good but i think there are pages that didn't translate completely....so i suggest you just start translating guide pages, and i'll do the rest general site relative pages...sorry.

@Doom9:You mean that i can get a @doom9.org mail account? Then thanks a lot :D I've already explain which is from original english pages and also add some my own information in those pages.

[Doom9]

@andante: as it looks now you're the coordinator for the traditional Chinese translation so yes, you will get an @doom9.org email account (the name before the @ is up to you provided you don't chose anything that is already existing).

Are you not going to translate the titles of the guides and the descriptions if there are any (on the doc overview)?

[tin852]

§Ú³£·Q°Ñ»P
I am going to participate in this

[andante]

OK~everybody
If you want to participate in Traditional Chinese translation project, please go tohttp://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9 first, decide which articles you want to translate and then contact me. Thanks!:D

[Clarice]

Happy Spring Festival to all :D
This is my first post in the Forum so that i wish i could get a pleasant start. :D

@doom9:
My friends and I are very interested in the Simplified Chinese Translation. :) We are a union of students from PRC which is named "BT Union" :p Some of us are from Tsinghua Univ, some from Beijing Univ and some from the other universities all over the China. I think that we do have the capability to do this translation :p

[mrly]

Happy Spring Festival to all ,too :)

I used to read the articles from Doom9 site often,but I didn't register my id in the forum.

So this is also my first post in the forum.

I am a member of BT Union.When I talked to my friends of BT Union about the Simplified Chinese Translation,many people showed great interests in it. We have enough ability in English and enough time. So,we think we have the capacity to take on the task.

Can we join the Simplified Chinese Translation project?

I am from South China University of Technology,hehe.
:rolleyes:

__________________
:)--=BT Union=-- ~mrly of SCUT~ :)

[opal]

@mrly:
@Clarice:
Happy to see you BTer here:)
We should work together to make it.
btw, ur forum is great:)

[Doom9]

okay, let me sum this up, it's getting more and more confusing.

Traditional Chinese: Andante is the coordinator, contact him to participate or visit the homepage at http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9 It contains a translated document overview and info on how to get in touch and sign up for a translation.
Members of the translation team / potentially interested people:
pighead
lyl797
Jeff_happy
intoxicated
tin852

Simplified Chinese: No coordinator appointed yet, no site as of yet.
Potential translators:
nan1nan1
opal
fileman
Clarice
mrly
netlife
and other BT Union members

Please forgive me if I accidentally put you in the wrong category. I think it's about time we split this thread up to enable easier separation of the two projects.

@tin852: There's no need for another Traditional Chinese page. Please get intouch with andante to coordinate your efforts.
I saw you have two versions of the main site, is one in Simplified Chinese? What about the two signs you've used to make the difference, could they potentially be used to differentiate the two translation projects?

@Clarice, mrly: Good to hear there are motivated people out there. Currently what we're lacking is a project coordinator so I'm looking for volunteers. A project coordinator is the one pulling all the strings behind a translation project, he/she handles translation assignments, proof-reads documents before putting them online and often also translates the news (though it's possible to separate news and guide management). You'd also need an ad-free webspace. Downloads will be provided by the main site so you don't have to worry about too much traffic. If you can't find a place I could temporarily provide some space on one of my servers but in the long run you'll have to find your own hosting (shouldn't be too hard once you've gained a certain popularity, the German team just recently got a new hosting after having had some problems in the past).

Also, don't forget to check out the three sticky threads in this forum, they will help you get started. As you can see, myself and coordinators of other projects still hang out here and we'll try our best to help if there are any problems / questions.

[netlife]

My first post here.

:D

Regards.