XviD-14112002-1...

[Blight]

Not sure if this was supposed to have been resolved in the latest build, but QPel+BFrames = Messed up video.

And I am using a bit of a low-bitrate (3000kbit/QPel/H263 @ 1280x720), but what is it with this major pixelation on keyframes... (see attached image).

[Blight]

BTW, Also get this pixelation at 5500kbit, which should be enough for this resolution. I'm using curves as described by the 2-pass tutorial.

[The Link]

Not sure if this was supposed to have been resolved in the latest build, but QPel+BFrames = Messed up video.
I´m happy to see someone else with this experience. My experience with b-frames + q-pel weren´t good either. My impression is: There are movies for which b-frames are great but q-pel does only harm and vice versa. I didn´t find a movie until now for which both enabled gave good results. But this doesn´t mean much since I didn´t encode many movies in the last time.

Regards,

The Link

[mikeson]

@Blight:

And when you turn b-frames a/o qpel off, everything is ok? I mean no pixelation?

@The Link:

Strange, I've got very good results while using these features. And I've tried different movies (Matrix,LOTR,Final Fantasy,Pearl Harbor,...).

@Blight & Thr Link:

Can you please post your codec settings and AviSynth script?

[The Link]

@mikeson:

Dead Man:


LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\undot.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\convolution3dyv12.dll")

movie=mpeg2source("G:\Dead Man\VIDEO_TS\dvd2avi.d2v")
filtered=movie.LumaFilter().convolution3d(preset="movieHQ").undot()
resized=filtered.crop(3,4,713,571).LanczosResize(640,352).Trim(3000,4000)

return resized


XviD-settings (If I remember right): Just H.263, q-pel, grey-scale and linear scaling for 2 CD (2 OGG-streams+srt subtitles)

Naked Lunch:


LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\TomsMoComp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\UnFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Programme\Avisynth2\plugins.2.5\DctFilter.dll")

mpeg2source("G:\DVDVolume\VIDEO_TS\dvd2avi.d2v",cpu=4,iPP=true)
TomsMoComp(0,15,0)
crop(17,4,696,570)
LanczosResize(448,336)
LumaFilter()
UnFilter(-10,-10)
DctFilter(1,1,1,1,.7,.4,.4,0)


XviD-settings: Just H.263, b-frames, packed bitstream, DivX5 compatability and linear-scaling using Koepis StatsReader
The resulted movie-file was ~70Mb too big which was why I created an XCD.

Results for both movies:
The quality is pretty good though the source material was not very good. Dad Man was very hard to compress and I´m still not very content with the result.

Regards,

The Link

[cjv]

@The Link:
Hi,

Just an observation, you might want to change your crop values to make them at the very least mod2. Most filters work better (avoid interpolation), especially in YV12, though I doubt this is the cause of your unsatisfactory encodes.

Also, is packed bitstream ready to be used yet? AFAIK, it really screws with the 2-pass when b-frames are used. (unless it's been fixed..the devs are so fast)

cjv

[Bulletproof]

From my observation with my own encoding, I have seen that Q-pel is SUPPOSED to add noise to the video which might result in a more pixelated look, the trade off is that it looks alot better than regular low bitrate usage and you get extra compressibility. In my observation, I also think that B-frames will NOT improve quality, it will rather LIGHTLY make quality go down at the benifit of higher compressibility also. If you guys are having problems with Q-pel and B-frames, try just using regular IP frames w/ Chroma motion on and H.263, you might like it better.

[The Link]

I´m not an expert but as far as I can see I used filters before crop or after resize and for that the width/hight is mod2 (or not?). Perhaps I don´t understand the concept.
In my tests I didn´t have any problems with packed bitstream and b-frames.
Don´t get me wrong: I´m very satisfied with the results I got. I just want to say that I have bad results using b-frames and q-pel at the same time. :)

Regards,

The Link

[unplugged]

It seems that latest 09-12 compile does not care about QPel checkbox/setting, it gives me same files with or without it (small video test, binary comparison).
I'm not using dynamic hpel/qpel.

[Blight]

Pixelation is with both QPel/BFrames on and off...
With all recent XVID versions really... Just do frame advance in VDub and see. The pixelation occurs even when the previous image is near identical (which doesn't really matter since it's a self-contained frame, but still...).

script:

LoadPlugin("E:\T\MPEG2DEC2.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\T\TomsMoComp.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\T\Convolution3D.dll")
MPEG2Source("jewel.d2v")
Crop(0,0,0,-8)
TomsMoComp(1,15,0)
LanczosResize(1280,720)
Convolution3d(1,4,4,4,4,2.6, 0)


It's as if the bitrate allocator isn't giving enough bitrate to the I-Frames.

BTW, you can probably see this for yourself just by seeking to next key frame in virtualdub (in a bright scene area).

[unplugged]

Originally posted by Blight
Pixelation is with both QPel/BFrames on and off...
With all recent XVID versions really... Just do frame advance in VDub and see. The pixelation occurs even when the previous image is near identical (which doesn't really matter since it's a self-contained frame, but still...).
I see blocks too, but like your case I see them mostly on flat or quasi flat surfaces (shades), how if quantization becomes hardly aggressive in that areas, more than happened with older xvid compiles.

?

[Blight]

Just for comparison, I've done a DIVX encode at the same bitrate, and while there is a bit of pixelation, it's nowhere near XVID...

Maybe raising the minimum I-Frame Quant would improve things?

The sad thing is it takes ~24minutes to encode 1 minute of video on a P4/2.53ghz per-pass. I guess the filters are heavy and the resolution high, but it makes for slow progress on checking for best quality.

[Koepi]

Packed bitstream isn't ready for 2pass yet.

Koepi

[mikeson]

@Blight:

I've done a DIVX encode at the same bitrate, and while there is a bit of pixelation, it's nowhere near XVID...

DivX4/5 blurs video, therefore it is better compressible and there are (could be) less macroblocks.

[mikeson]

Just want to share some encoding results from build 09122002.

Using AviSynth 2.5 (07-12), MPEG2Dec3YV12 0.94, script is:

LoadPlugin("D:\Program Files\DivX\AviSynth_filters\yv12\MPEG2dec3YV12.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\Program Files\DivX\AviSynth_filters\yv12\Convolution3DYV12.dll")
#
#--SOURCE----------------------------------------------------#
mpeg2source("E:\DivX\VOB\Lord of the Rings\Lord of the Rings.d2v",idct=4)
#
#--CROPPING--------------------------------------------------#
Crop(0,66,720,444)
#
#--RESIZING--------------------------------------------------#
LanczosResize(720,304)
#

1st pass:
XviD features: B-frames 3/150/100 + Qpel (no dynamic) + CM
Filesize: 2,153,723,904 bytes

XviD features: B-frames 3/150/100 + Qpel (dynamic) + CM
Filesize: 2,194,092,032 bytes

XviD features: B-frames 3/150/100 + Qpel (dynamic) + CM + lumi masking
Filesize: 2,268,282,880 bytes

Comments:
It is very difficuilt to comment quality, as it is outstanding at these filesizes. But it is interesting that with lumi on, filesize significatly increases. I think it is ok, because codec is trying to achieve better quality in dark scenes.

Any other opinions a/o experiences.


Now trying some C3D filtering... ;)

[sam_b]

@Blight

Did you run debugview during the second pass? If so, you should be able to identify the average quant used for the offending I-frames. You could then run a very short section of film through xvid on quality or constant quant mode to test. < 1fps. ouch.

By the way, where is your source from? Is that HDTV?

[Blight]

Sorry, didn't run in debug view...

Source is 1920x1080i (interlaced) 1 minute clip from the Tonight Show. It's probably a candidate for worst possible interlacing. But after TomsMoComp and a Resize down to 1280x720 it looks very fine.
(DeInterlaced at source resolution it looks aweful, nothing seems to deinterlace this clip very nicely).

[miha]

did the coders take the speed pill again there is so much updates
build please build :devil:
if only insta builds would work :(

[kilg0r3]

hi

the last film i encoded with xvid XviD-09122002-1 came out way undersized. i was aiming for ca. 1.5gb and 1.2 was what i got.

as far as i remember the firstpass size was about 2.2gb.

xvid settings were:

chroma motion+
qpel +
hpel/qpel +
bframes 3
bframeq 120
bfqoff 100
dx50Comp +

twopass:
if-boost10
if-dis10
if-brred20

cc:
high bitrate scenes 0
low bitrate scenes 0
payback with bias (might it be that this still took away bits from high bitrate scenes, which then were not reallocated because of the above settings??)

cheers