XviD-14112002-1...

[Koepi]

Ahoy,

I made a new build:

XviD-14112002-1:
- Fresh CVS checkout.
- Added bframe+skip-frame report+storage (nns.dd_v bits 30+29).

It's nice to watch the debugview output now, you can see skipped+bframes. They're not steering the 2nd pass now, but my first tests for a few 1000 frames showed that the i/p/b-decision is quite stable and thus it gives at least a propper view of things.
VDub might show funny things though, it might be that it reports bframes as keyframes, but who cares as it is just cosmetical ;)

Regards
Koepi

[Selur]

thx for the new build

[Koepi]

You're welcome :)


New, silent update: binary with same name is up, got that issue with Vfw solved (vdub reporting bframes as keyframes...).

Regards,
Koepi

[HomiE FR]

Thanks a lot Koepi! :)
I hoped that someone would make the infos on B-frames appear on debugview.

[MoonWalker]

Originally posted by HomiE FR
Thanks a lot Koepi! :)
I hoped that someone would make the infos on B-frames appear on debugview.

Hehe :)..I am working on it...Just had too much job for my University..

PS @Koepi I suppose your build is YU12 "compliant" :)

MoonWalker

[iago]

@Koepi

Thanks a lot for the new build "dostum". I'll write longer soon! ;)

best regards,
iago

[Koepi]

Heh, thanks for all the compliments, but I have to warn you:

It's just a visualisation of the bframes (and it's not 100% correct, we suxen_drol made me aware of the fact that we have different frame types as well which I have to sub-categorize).

I have a build up and running here that e.g. eliminates the first "delayed frames" from the stats file. But unfortunately, for the second pass we need much more complicated (well, not really) handling of this (delayed overflow compensation, resorting of frametypes/stats entries,...) which I unfortunately can't make as for my taste foxer's code is a bit too cryptic, I couldn't garantuee that the code works bug-free - if it works at all (dunno where to start for a lack of better explanation).

But it's a nice feature and it is a step in the right direction, as proper bframe treatment for VfW is in progress now.

I just want to mention that here, because curve treatment is absolutely wrong now and results in "funny" results (way less than optimal).

Best regards
Koepi

P.S.: serefe, iago :)

[MoonWalker]

I have encode a movie with this build and I have a problem. It plays in slow motion..Tried to playback with nic's filter, bsplayer gave me "Unsupported format"..

My setting where the defaults (2-pass) with Chroma ME..

MoonWalker

[CruNcher]

Tried to playback with nic's filter

It won't work correct by now, try the new ffdshow it works perfectly without this slowmo effect i think NIC is working on the Problem so we have to wait

[kastro68]

gmc, b-frames, chroma and quarter pixels seem to work fine without any problems for me so far.

However, I am using DX50 fourcc.

[NoLogo]

CruNcher> do you know where ffdshow can be downloaded, the usual link seem to be broken... :(

[Koepi]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow/ -> ffdshow-alpha.

Currently, sourceforge is down for a bit for maintenance but will be back up soon.

Regards
Koepi

[NoLogo]

Koepi> Yeah, that's what I've seen... but if you say "soon", i think I can wait for a few day :)
Thanx for the reply and for the binaries.

[ffroms]

Yep. ffdshow-20021113-Alpha is the only that can play movies correctly(b-frame,GMC,QPel,Luma motion).

Thanks Koepi for that build together with AVISynth 2.5 gives best resoults I've seen so far.

[cult]

With gmc enabled and bframes in encode I get strange smearing effect with ffdshow.If I check "use xvid" then I get slow motion,so i am not sure if it works ok.

[ffroms]

Did U use this alpha version? I have no problems with it . And check "use Xvid".

FFS

[cult]

with another movie didnt get this effect.So I guess it was the movie after all.With another one it works fine.With checked use xvid-terrible slow.Alpha build 13/11 using

[ffroms]

Yes. There is something wrong with xvid.ax in that. Hope there will be new build of DS filter soon.

[iago]

Has anyone tried GMC alone (without b-frames) with the new 14112002-1 build? It seems OK here, decoding with ffdshow 13/11, "use xvid" unchecked.

However, GMC + QPel (without b-frames) seems to have some (decoding?) problems, when decoded with ffdshow 13/11.

(I can neither use Nic's xvid.ax nor ffdshow 13/11 with "use xvid" checked, since my limited processor power doesn't allow me to use them without playback problems with a resolution of 640*... ;))

regards,
iago

[Teegedeck]

Did you see any noticeable visual improvement or filesize-reduction with GMC? Neo Neko reported some bitrate-reduction with noisy analogue captures.

[ffroms]

I tried with GMC+Q+LumaM (only 1pass on 3000 frames) and had no playback problems with ffdshow (without "use Xvid"). There is no file size improvement (actualy it was a little biger than without GMC,B,Q,LumaM).

FFS

[Koepi]

XviD-16112002-1:
- BFrame support in Vfw added by Foxer, not perfect yet but better than before.


YAY! try it! (I did and it worked very well!)

Regards
Koepi

[TheUnforgiven]

@koepi
could u explain more about how the 2-pass mode is now aware of b-frames.
thanks in advance

[Koepi]

?

Before these changes VfW just tried to scale everything as if there were no bframes. Now it "knows" about bframes and has a bframe-curve as well which it scales separately, resulting in proper scaling results compared to the scaling before.

As I wrote about the old stuff: curve treatment / overflow treatment went nuts due to bframes and wasn't at all suitable.

This has changed.

I hope it's clearer for you now.

Koepi

[iago]

@Koepi

You're lightning fast these days! Thanks one more time! ;)

Btw, (just a personal observation but) with the recent builds, quality and speed improvement (with Avs2.5 and YV12 colorspace) is even more noticable imho. XviD is moving with big steps towards perfection! ;)

regards,
iago

[TheUnforgiven]

@koepi
thanx for the fast responce
i know about the problem, just wanted more details about the solution.
gonna try the new build tonight.

[HarryM]

@Koepi:

Thanks.

[Dali Lama]

Hi Koepi, I am currently running my second pass of a movie with b-frames. If I want to try out the b frame aware curve treatment, can I just run a second pass again or both?

Thanks,

Dali

[Koepi]

Unfortunately we must store the different frame types, the old build did that wrong.
You need to do a full 2pass again :-/

Regards
Koepi

[iago]

Koepi,

I guess GMC doesn't work with the new 16112002-1 build. ffdshow 13/11 OSD doesn't report any GMC frames, and I get identical results in my short "2-pass" tests with and without GMC (the same 1st Pass size, the same quantizer distribution, etc.)

Can you please check and confirm this issue?

best regards,
iago

Btw, I have started a full two-pass encode of a ~ 101 min. movie, with the 16112002-1 build, aiming for 613000 kb, using b-frames 4/200, LanczosResize(640,352), and no special credits treatment ;). Let's wait and see the results!

[crOOk]

I've personally never used B-Frames before because they didn't look good in 2pass. This has changed since the 914 build. Thanx to all the developers!!

[MoonWalker]

BTW..Does all these features (B-Frames,Qpel,GCM,Chroma Motion e.t.c) work with MPEG quants? Or it's just H.263? Or some of the work with MPEG?

Thanks,
MoonWalker

[neo_sapien]

Do any of these bugfixes deal with the b-frame desync bug?

[Koepi]

bframe desync bug?

Sorry, but that's system-immanent to bframes.

Fetch yourself a copy of ffdshow, set video-delay to -120ms (-80 is fine, too), and you're done, perfectly sync movie. Or if you know that you'll use bframes on your encode, add 120ms (or 80ms are fine, too) of delay to the sound.

Regards
Koepi

[neo_sapien]

Ah, I didn't know that feature had been implemented yet in ffdshow, but I'm very glad it has :)

Danke

[NoLogo]

I can confirm GMC doesn't modify the encode at all: same size, quality and quantizer distribution.

Iago> how do you see GMC with FFDSow ?

[cjv]

To see if GMC was used (or b-frames, or qpel, etc..) go to
ffdshow->Configuration->OSD->Frame Type. Make sure "Frame type" is checked, and "OSD" is checked. You can see the results in green when you view your video in a media player.

cjv

[cult]

confirmed here too.No gmc showing with ffdshow

[Gaia]

I can see GMC with ffdshow. I just checked it out.

[iago]

@Gaia,

With the 14112002-1 or 16112002-1 binary?!

I guess it doesn't work with the 16112002-1 build, as others have confirmed too.

regards,
iago

[Koepi]

EDIT: GMC is just a "draft impementation" now, it's not giving much compressability increasement. It's switched on and off dynamically when it helps a frame, so your sequences might be just not suitable to GMC. Try a clean scene with a longer camera pan and see if GMC is used please.

Regards
Koepi

[AndyP]

Likewise, could somebody verify if the qpel tickbox is working. I have tried encoding a short clip with the 16/10 build (1 pass quant =3, motion search 6, tried with both H263 and MPEG, all else default) with the qpel box enabled/disabled and the resulting avi's were identical....

EDIT: Also tried with the colour motion box ticked/unticked and that seems to make no difference either.

It could, however, just be me... :D

Kind Regards,
Andy

[Koepi]

The code looks fine, might be something with the core... VERY strange.

Hopefully someone finds the error.

Regards
Koepi

[unplugged]

Originally posted by AndyP
Likewise, could somebody verify if the qpel tickbox is working. I have tried encoding a short clip with the 16/10 build (1 pass quant =3, motion search 6, tried with both H263 and MPEG, all else default) with the qpel box enabled/disabled and the resulting avi's were identical....
Yes, this happens me too with sysKin special 18/11 compile (QPel & B-Frames working together), files result identical with or without.

[iago]

Yes, I can confirm that the problem persists with sysKin's 18/11 binary as well. No QPel, no GMC (being reported by ffdshow OSD) with or without b-frames.

regards,
iago

[sysKin]

See what heppens when I make a build at 2 am?
You're right. I added Koepi's new 2-pass code (more correct for bframes) and didn't notice that checkboxes-realted part is just not active. Uh.

Don't worry about this special build, I've found at least four new errors is it (quite serious ones) so it's bad anyway.

If I'll get rid of them, I'll just give the code to Koepi and he'll make a build :)

Radek

[Koepi]

Changelog:

XviD-18112002-1:
- sysKin added support for GMC and QPEL with bframes. Try it please!

ah, and the code is enabled which sets the switches for GMC, chroma ME, qpel,... dunno why it was commented out :-/

Regards
Koepi

[Gaia]

It's little off the topic but is QPel working now better? I tried it few builds back and still saw colour smearing and Divx3 style noise. I can't test it today because i am in the middle of encoding, testing some other sfuff. Or is QPel just like that because atleast in Divx5 pro it just creates strange noise/artifacts or whatever and nobody recommends to use it. It might work better with really high bitrates but below 1000 bitrates it doesn't look good.

[AndyP]

Hi

All checkboxes now work fine with Koepi's 18/11 build :D However I get a consistant crash in vdub 1.4.11 using Bframes (2/150) with qpel. Settings - 1 pass quant 3, H263, Motion search 6, bframes 2/150 with DIVX5 compat, qpel ticked. GMC and chroma unticked.

AVS
---
LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("convolution3d.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\DVD\THE_MATRIX\The Matrix.d2v")
trim(142800,143100)
crop(4,80,712,416)
BicubicResize(640,256,0,0.5)
Convolution3D(0,4,4,4,4,2.8,0)

Bframes and chroma search work together (at least on this clip). Have not tried GMC as the clip does not have any good pans.

Kind Regards,
Andy

[MoonWalker]

I can confirm what AndyP sais...

I too get a crash using b-frames + qpel..The other setting are working ok...

As for GMC, I tested it on "Spiderman : The Movie" (before the end credits) which has large camera pans..Works ok..

MoonWalker