A little hopefully helpfull subs guide

[oddyseus]

I am sure that ne1 that has read and understood the guides about subs in this site has very little use of these guidelines. However for all the rest non-English speaking fellow dvdland citizens follow them and u ll never have a problem again in regards with subs placement and colors.

These guidelines r working 100% for PAL movies. I know that u have to adjust the dimensions of the bmps for NTSC to 720x480 and I am confident that u have to adjust the dropframe flag but haven't tested it yet. Anyway if a NTSCer knows something about is welcomed to add.

-------------
v In Subrip make sure that u rip with blue font and white stroke.
v Bmp size at 720x576 (PAL).
v After saving the sst or son file open it in wordpad
and replace the header with the appropriate one attached.

v In Scenarist when u create the new scenario make sure
that u reset the colors to default through the appropriate button
to the left of the window.

v In Maestro u dont have to reset anything. Just load
the spf palette that Subrip produces and of course replace
the header.

Hope that helped.

[zuggy]

...the appropriate one attached ???

[oddyseus]

Well the attachment never made it through, so I guess I have to type it here.


if u r using Maestro replace the header of your son file with this one

st_format 2
Display_Start non_forced
TV_Type PAL
Tape_Type NON_DROP
Pixel_Area (0 575)
Directory
Display_Area (0 0 719 575)
Contrast (0 0 15 15)

#
# Palette entries:
#
# 00 : RGB(255,255, 0)
# 01 : RGB(131,127, 0)
# 02 : RGB( 8, 0, 0)
#

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
Color (0 1 2 3)


if u r using Scenarist replace the header of your sst file with this one

st_format 2
Display_Start non_forced
TV_Type PAL
Tape_Type NON_DROP
Pixel_Area (2 574)
Display_Area (0 2 719 574)
Color (4 3 4 3)
Contrast (15 0 0 15)
E2 (0 0 255 ===)
E1 (255 0 0 ===)
PA (0 0 0 ===)
BG (255 255 255 ===)
Directory
#####################################################
SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME

[zuggy]

Your headers should be OK for v1.06, but I've changed it a little since v1.07. Now the max. height is 478 for NTSC (574 for PAL) and headers since this version should be OK in SubRip for both PAL and NTSC then.

[oddyseus]

thanks zuggy for pointing this out. I downloaded subrip 1.07 and I ll test them tonight.

[caprioles9000]

ww00tt thnx oddyseus finally a guide for us PAL users ...one little question ..after having replaced the header and saved it ....when using maestro to complie do u still use the spf file that was created by subrip to change the colours of the subtitles?

[oddyseus]

the spf file is created by subrip and is independent of the header replacement, thus it has nothing to do with it.

[oddyseus]

@zuggy: the header is working allright with the new version. I would like to point out some points.

The text window is glued to the bottom of the subs screen. U cann't see the subtitles being ripped. I think that we all would like the freedom of movement it had before.

In the last 3 versions I noticed that all 4 primaries r beeing used. For movie subs that's good, but when it comes to menu subs the resulting bmps r not crisp and clear. In my system there r a mix up of colors that do not help in the presice position and in clarity on screen. Is this general or am I experiencing it? I haven't seen any comments about it.

Personally I would appreciate the option to rip to 2 colors.

Other that this, the prog is my favorite since May 2000.

[zuggy]

Originally posted by oddyseus
The text window is glued to the bottom of the subs screen. U cann't see the subtitles being ripped. I think that we all would like the freedom of movement it had before.


This is bug and will be fixed soon, atm you can just close this window.


In the last 3 versions I noticed that all 4 primaries r beeing used.


I must finish off the original DVD color palette support to get "clarity" colors. The 4 primaries are used from beginning, probably you haven't noticed that, because some DVDs don't use antialiasing.


Personally I would appreciate the option to rip to 2 colors.


You can do it, when you set color and contrast of Outline and Antialiasing to the same values like Background ("Output Formats" window).

[oddyseus]

thank u for your answer.

Glad to know that was a bug that is going to be fixed.

[zuggy]

It's fixed now, v1.081.

[Eyes`Only]

Zuggy,

As long as you're in the mood to make enhancements/bugfixes...

We really could use a fix to the .sst bug. Many times after saving the .sst I can try to import it into Scenarist and I will get errors about the start time being the same as the end time on several lines. If I view the .sst in notepad, I can see that this is true (ie. Start time=00:16:11.10 End time=00:16:11.10)

The simple fix of the above line is to increase the endtime to 00:16:11.11. Just that one change to each line with the problem and then it imports successfully into Scenarist.

So.. I'm thinking the easiest solution would be a 'Minimum duration of subtitle' feature added to the 'time correction' menu. Or, just have the program do a check and increase any subtitles with a duration of 0 seconds, as this is obviously an impossible subtitle to display, so Subrip probably shouldn't even generate 0 sec times at all, right?

I've tested with your latest version (1.081) and now it's doing something where it's deleting lines that have 0 sec timecodes. This works, but then we're left with a less-than-perfect finished product, wouldn't you say?

Can you please work with me/us to fix this?

Thanks for listening,

Eyes`Only

[zuggy]

Yes, I will do it.
But remember your subtitles you provide me - if I add 1 frame to these ones, then time of the next subtitle would be shorter... and so on even 10 subtitles successive.

[Eyes`Only]

Admittedly this would be true, if the next subtitle overlapped. But most often i see subtitles like the following:

Example:

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:04 sub.1.bmp <--bad line
2 00:00:43:24 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

In this case, I can change the line 1 and add 1 frame to where the two lines now say:

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:05 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:43:24 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

Now line 1 is accepted, yet line 2 was never changed and still syncs perfect. If the next line was:

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:04 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:37:05 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

... then admittedly I'd have to change the lines to:

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:05 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:37:06 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

but since i didn't mess with the endtime of line 2, line 3 should still be perfect, right?

[zuggy]

I think that:
SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:04 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:37:05 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

can be changed to:
SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:05 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:37:05 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

without affecting the next subtitle line, am I right? In other words, could be stop time of previous equal to current start time?

And some example like in your subtitles:
1 00:00:37:05 00:00:37:05 sub.1.bmp //+1 frame
2 00:00:37:05 00:00:37:06 sub.2.bmp //+1 frame
3 00:00:37:06 00:00:37:07 sub.3.bmp //+1 frame
4 00:00:37:07 00:00:37:08 sub.4.bmp //+1 frame
5 00:00:37:08 00:00:37:09 sub.5.bmp //+1 frame
6 00:00:37:09 00:00:37:10 sub.6.bmp //+1 frame
7 00:00:37:10 00:00:37:10 sub.7.bmp //+2 frames
8 00:00:37:10 00:00:37:11 sub.8.bmp //+2 frames
9 00:00:37:11 00:00:37:11 sub.9.bmp //+3 frames
10 00:00:37:11 00:00:37:12 sub.10.bmp //+3 frames
11 00:00:40:00 00:00:42:00 sub.11.bmp //now I can "reset" the "+frames counter"

[Eyes`Only]

Originally posted by zuggy
I think that:
SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:04 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:37:05 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

can be changed to:
SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
1 00:00:37:04 00:00:37:05 sub.1.bmp
2 00:00:37:05 00:00:47:06 sub.2.bmp

without affecting the next subtitle line, am I right? In other words, could be stop time of previous equal to current start time?



I didn't think that was possible, but I tried it, and you're right. The end time of one sub can be the same as the start time of the next. That makes things at least a little easier huh? I admit it's not a perfect solution, but it beats removing the subs entirely, i believe.

[zuggy]

New version is available on my page ("www" icon). Eyes`Only, please test the zero duration problem on your subtitles. Instead of the minimal subtitle duration checking I've corrected the milliseconds to frames conversion procedure at first.

[kxy]

Zuggy, how would you use punct.txt?
here is the first 4 lines

?. <== this is the error
? <== this is the correction?
) <== second error
) <== second correction?

So if I add more follow it, it would work? For example:
.A
. A
lK
K


BEFORE AFTER
0:00:18:.Zuggy . Zuggy
2:22:32:lKxy Kxy

[kxy]

===========================================================
2002/10/24 SubRip 1.10 (c) MJQ

+ improved punctuation correction (Post OCR Correction)
+ new optional "Capital Letters" detection (Post OCR Correction)
- some bugfixes in reading of MicroDVD, TMPlayer, Mpl, Mpl2 and Dks files
* "Castellano.lng" updated by Manuel Periago
* "Polski 2.lng" updated by MJQ

---------------------------
2002/10/23 SubRip 1.091 (c) T.V. Zuggy
[As long as I'm in the mood to make enhancements/bugfixes...]

* minor enhancements & bugfixes
+ SubViewer 2 output: option to preserve font style tags
(requested by Daniel Bastian Vollmer [d.b.vollmer@reading.ac.uk])
- changed frame timecode estimate (should avoid zer0 subtitle duration?)
- 2 bugs reported from Alexander Volok [alexv777@tut.by]
| incorrectly shown total DVD size (I was blind...)
| "What to do?" window: pressing "x" button leads to access violation
- changed PAL Scenarist header according to FilipeAmadeuO [Doom9's Forum]
- ". . ." to "..." post-OCR correction (Sven Bent [Doom9's Forum])
* "Castellano.lng" updated by Manuel Periago [manper@ono.com]

[zuggy]

Originally posted by kxy

.Z
. Z
lK
K

BEFORE AFTER
0:00:18:.Zuggy . Zuggy
2:22:32:lKxy Kxy

Exactly, odd lines - bad, even - correction.
It will be improved to edit the corrections in SubRip, but at this time just this...

[Eyes`Only]

?- changed frame timecode estimate (should avoid zer0 subtitle duration?)

Zuggy: I still got one error with version 1.091. This version 1.10 has a different formula for figuring out timecodes that should eliminate this

[zuggy]

One error instead of these about 20 before? That would be better...

Can you, please, post the error line here - I wanna look the whole timecode.

And none timecode-estimate changes from 1.091 to 1.10.

[Eyes`Only]

Zuggy,

So far so good with version 1.10, i haven't had errors yet. I have experienced off-sync subs when demuxing a RAW 0x20 vob and then ripping from that, though. Not 100% why.

However, I do have another important feature to request of you. When doing TV-Series type DVDs, usually 1 VTS is divided into multiple PGCs (one PGC per episode), each of which having subtitles. To reauthor these, we rip them by PGC, then reauthor. I can't seem to find a good way to get correct timecodes/subs for each pgc. Demuxing the stream in RAW mode by PGC gets me close, and sometimes correct, but sometimes a sub or two gets lost/omitted, and then the remaining stream is off-sync. Any possibility of an option to subrip the subs out of a specified PGC? Like, specify the IFO, then PGC2, and subrip will rip only the subs from PGC 2? I'm sure this feature could be used by many. If you have any other ideas of how it could be done a different way, I'm always open to suggestions also!

Thanks,

Eyes`Only

[zuggy]

PGC - I have no experience with more than 1 PGC, but I will look if some docs about it are available. You can try VobSub, I think that it supports multiple PGCs.

[Eyes`Only]

Vobsub doesn't seem to support multiple PGCs, but you can rip only certain vobids. With my DVD, this kind of works since ep1=vobids 1-10, ep2=vobids 2-20, etc. But, this is definitely not an optimal solution, as I batch script everything and I can't derive what vobids go to which pgc from any CLI programs I know of...

Thanks for working on fixing the problems with Scenarist. Your program is a lifesaver, and enhancements like these just make it more useful for every application possible!

btw: Are you saying that ripping to .sub with vobsub and then subripping with your program produces 100% accurate results? I've tried ripping sub streams with dvddecrypter, but for some reason a lot of the times the sync was off that way. I would think from what I read about vobsub that all it does is the exact same thing dvddec does. Maybe it does it better?

[zuggy]

Many, many enhancements must be done in future to say about it that it's a bit good :)

VobSub subtitles ripping takes good times, because these timecodes are part of vobsub's .idx file - look at it. Other decryptors (dvddecrypter...) have no such file so far, wherefore the timecode info is read from packets like by standard vob - that's good to time when SCR resets. I have written about it in other threads, search for "reset2zero" or look subrip manual, some info should be here.

[Eyes`Only]

Zuggy,

Ok new testing results. Using vobsub on 4 different pgcs (by using vob1-10 for pgc1, vob2-20 for pgc2, etc) and then subripping with the .idx file:

With minimum subtitle duration 1 ms = 2 errors (0 second subtitles)

With minimum subtitle duration 30 ms = no errors (2 subtitles dropped)

So it seems that the subtitle durations works to eliminate errors, but that it's not correcting times, it's simply dropping those subs from the list. In a case of a normal movie that would be acceptable, however in a case where there's an animated subtitle (several sub pictures displayed one after another, such as in Legally Blonde where there's a popup effect for their trivia track) it would not work well at all.

Any ideas/revelations?

[Kyo]

Mmm... just to say Thanks Thanks Thanks Zuggy

[zuggy]

Eyes`Only: I've recommended VobSub to avoid reset2zero problem on subtitle-streams-only-containing-stripped VOBs, read about it in other threads. It is not medicine for zero-frame duration subtitles. As I've said before, at first I've corrected the frame destinating procedure, that is the "Min. subtitle duration" stayed with the same function as before - deleting. But now I finally hear from you, that it doesn't work in all cases, then I will make the zero-frame checkup till next version.

[fvp2k]

All very nice, but what I can't read how I need to set MAESTROSBT to see a good subtitle with a black outline(using white subtitles)..., I have a .ssa subtitle from the internet...

what do I need to do to see this subtitles correctly in DVD Maestro (White text, black outline)

can someone explain it to me,

many thanx

FvP2K