Calculator for CCE single-pass VBR mode

[FamousPerson]

Originally posted by ianinmalaga
I was trying to read between the lines on your last msg and you say there is a problem with Single Pass?? So I presume if I do multipass (2 passes) on a PAL .. the size should be pretty much dead on correct

What I'm saying is that single pass for PAL can be inaccurate. I didn't have much test data on it. If you set it to multi-pass, yes, it will be dead-on.

By the way, setting it to "multi-pass" and changing the number of passes to "1" is not the same as single pass. When I say single pass, I mean "One pass VBR". You can do multi-pass with a setting of 1 pass.

[rveupen]

Hi,

I am really new to DVD authoring and I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me in brief the exact way to rip a DVD.

What i do now is use DVDDecrypter and Demux Video and Audio track. I then use DVD2AVI to create the .D2V file(how long should that take to make..Collateral Damage takes about 3mins) could that be right?? Then i use Vfape104 to create an avi file. The avi I drag and drop in CCE 2.66. Adjust a few things in CCE and encode.

But a few key things are missing i guess.

Does someone have a doco on how to rip a dvd?

I would like to keep using CCE because from what I heard it is the best.

TIA!

[FamousPerson]

rveupen:

What exactly isn't working for you? Looks to me like you're a great job.

guides:

http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvdr-guides.htm

[rveupen]

Thx for the quick reply...!

Well i am using CCE2.66...and all the guides i find are for mainly 2.50 and 2.64. The layout for 2.66 is totally different. What are the best settings?

During CCE 2.66 encode I always use VBR 2pass....but before CCE starts with the 2pass VBR it first takes about 1:45min to create a VAF file. So actually it is doing a 3pass even though i choose to do a 2 pass???? Is there an explanation for that???

After the encoding I use DVDMaestro to Author it. Import the Video and Audio assets. Make sure I have Pal and 16/9 Letterbox. Import the cahpers.chp file...and then want to import the Subs. But here is wheer it also goes wrong. I use Subrip 1.13. It creats all the BMP files and I choose the Maestro (.SON) file when saving...also make sure its on 25fps. When I look at the original DVD to see when the first sub appears and go back and check the .son file to see when the first sub should appear they are the same. But (and a big BUTT) when i import the .son file in Maestro it only imports a third of the subs. So i did a bit of invistigation and found out that it only imports subs(bmp) that have the hour in it. For example.. the first sub here (ned00001.bmp) Should be at 38 seconds but instead it starts with sub ned00433.bmp which is the first sub that has an hour in it.

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
Color (0 1 2 3)
Display_Area (000 000 719 573)
0001 00:00:38:08 00:00:43:02 ned00001.bmp

Display_Area (000 000 719 573)
0432 00:58:18:15 00:58:22:07 ned00432.bmp
Display_Area (000 000 719 573)
0433 01:00:58:17 01:01:01:15 ned00433.bmp

So i thought if i add an hour to the whole file it would import all the subs. And to my amazement it did. But (Again that big BUTT)...the subs are not in the exact right place.

Can you explain that??

TIA!

[FamousPerson]

I can answer your first question. CCE needs the vaf file to do multipass. It is an information file that CCE uses in order to make sure it's output's AVG bitrate is exactly right. If your movie has a very complicated part in the middle, for example, the vaf file would carry that information. My advice: do a multipass with only one pass (which would end up being 2 passes, one for the vaf file) if your movie is under 3 hours. The quality will be amazing, trust me. Also, note that you can re-use the vaf file. If it already exists, CCE will skip that pass.

As for your second problem, I've never seen that before. I've never worked with PAL, though. My guess is it has to do with your settings in SubRip. Just a guess.

[FamousPerson]

I have suspected there was a region-based bug in CCEGuesser but could not find it until now (finally!). It was a stupid bug that occured for anyone who uses a comma as a decimal symbol (actually, the bug was really more Microsoft's than mine ;) )

Anyway, here is a fixed version (1.0.6) (http://www.vanhouwelingen.com/marcvh/cceguesser/cceguesser.zip)

[sebus]

It might be me doing sth wrong, but I used version 1.0.5 for calcullations (PAL DV avi). CCE 2.66.xx.07 patched.
Gave me the estimation of min bitrate 4120, used 4100 & was ... over 400b too much for a single DVD5

Any ideas?

Thanks

sebus

[FamousPerson]

does 1.0.6 (see 2 above) give you different numbers?

[sebus]

My fault. As I said, done wrong the size of audio.
Your v 1.05 & v 1.06 were right.

To ~ 20 Mb

Seb

[oddyseus]

Famous person your calc is very good. I was on a similar problem for some time and managed to solve it using excel for the calcs. U may find it at this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38730.

I am writing this to pass on a fact that I discovered during my research. The extra space u need for muxing up audio+video and subs is 3% on all counts.

U may use the data in the xls file to improve your program. Pls let me know if u need any info on them. Perhaps u could combine them to a fully intergrated programm that could suggest the quality factor as well.

[FamousPerson]

oddyseus:

Yes, total overhead is usually about 3%. Here's why:

Subtitles take up only 2.5% of their size as bitmaps (I determined this by compiling a project both with and without subtitles).

Video and audio take 100% of their size.

Navigation overhead is consistently about 110 MB.

Since 110 MB is 2.45% of 4.3772 GB (the size of a DVD-R), and subtitles typically take 10-20MB, the total overhead does work out to about 3%.

[foxmolder]

FamousPerson, as I must say it to you.
Until now I have used version 1.0.1 of your software with PAL format and it has worked very well.
Instead with the new versions, the calculations had many trouble with PAL format, because it is kept under the average with CCE Min but perhaps also too much in comparison to the version 1.0.1
However always thanks for your job.

[<Aussie>Twodogs]

First off thanks for a very useful program Famousperson.
I have been using it now for two weeks and i have encoded about 6 movies in that time using your program.
One funny thing i have noticed if i use the recomended min and max bitrates from your program with a 4:3 movie it's spot on , if i use it for a 16:9 it always " at least 3 times " makes the m2v file a lot smaller than it could off eg : re-encoded terminator 2 pumped all the relevant info into cce guesser and it gave me the recomended bitrates.
After re-authoring it all in maestro it totaled just under 4 gig , as this was a movie only re-encode the overhead was only 1 audio track so the outcome was suprising.
But all in all i think the programs great and will continue to use it " i just add a bit to the min encoding when doing a 16:9 movie ".
Thanks again for the program.
Btw i'm using version 1.06

[FamousPerson]

Yes, it depends too on the amount of complexity in the movie. I set it rather conservatively because some do go over.

[DVD1968]

Has anyone implemented the corrections to Robshot method from Bach and used FamousPerson's calculator with any accuracy?

Here is the link to the article from Bach I'm referring to

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28939

Also, there is an alternative method to determining Q factor based on a small sample of the movie (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41033&perpage=20&highlight=robshot&pagenumber=1). This seems a bit tedious.

FamousPerson - Can you incorporate an optimum Q-factor determination for OPVBR in your calculator using the Bach method? Also, I see you are using a quality setting of 5 which is low according to Bach.

Has anyone seen considerable differences in quality with a setting of 5 compared to something between 15-25?

[FamousPerson]

DVD1968:

Funny you should ask. As you can see in the thread you reference above (the 2nd one), I'm working on just that.

If anyone likes, feel free to download and test the new CCEGuesser that does the Bach method. You can find instructions, etc in this post:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=236925#post236353

As far as Quality=5, that's what I've always used. From what I understand, the lower the better.

[rveupen]

Wonder if anyone else has this problem...?

I use DVD Decrypter to DEMUX the Audio and Video of Spiderman.
Seen as though the .m2v file is small enough I dont have to use CCE to make it smaller. I then use Subrip to get the subtitles i need.

I import the .ac3 and .m2v file in DVDMaestro. Add the chapters and also the subtitles. Make sure it is Pal and 16:9. Compile the dvd and burned it. Works great.

But I wanted to do the same with Black Hawk Down. Used DVD Decrypter to get my .m2v and .ac3 files. The .m2v file was to big so I used CCE 2.66 and CCE Guesser to create a new and smaller .m2v file. Used Subrip to get my subs and DVD Decryoter already created the Chapters file. Started DVDMaestro up and imported the .ac3 and .m2v file. Added the chapters file and imported the subs file. Only then to find out that I used the original .m2v file that was to big. So I started a new project and did all the same except for the .m2v file. I used the one created with CCE only to find out that when i import my SUbs and chapters that only the half of the subs and chpaters are imported. So i removed the video from the timeline and as asset. Imported the .m2v file DVD Decrypter made (which is too big) and added it to the timeline. Imported my subs and chapters and this time they where all imported?????

So in short:

When i use the .m2v file created by DVD Decrypter (which is too big to create a dvd) I can import all Subs and Chapters.

When I use the .m2v file created by CCE only half of the Subs and Chapters are imported.

Is there some setting in CCE that I am not using or am supposed to use? I am using CCE 2.66.01.04.

Any suggestions are welcome!!

TIA!

[oddyseus]

change the start timecode in CCE that defaults to 1:00:00.00 hours and u r done. Alternatively u can reset the timecode in Maestro to 0:00:00.00 by clicking on the video tab up left from the timeline.

[rveupen]

Thx....that did the trick!!

[discutter]

Hi Great prog just what I was looking for, couple of niggling little question when I load up your pro it says "Single PASS VBR does not work well with PAL" does that mean it isnt accurate with PAL calcs or thats a rubbish thing to use in CCE with PAL?

I just ask as this is the method I have always used am I better of with multipass?

Secondly I havent figured out how to use the prog for something with say 4 main features (Im doing Star Trek TNG) I tried adding the total frame lenght of them all up etc, once Id finished I had 1.3 Gb spare on the disc

G

[FamousPerson]

No, sorry, it's only saying that it's calculations sometimes do not work well with PAL. I put that in there because some people have reported that. (I have no PAL material to test with)

If you have multiple titles, I would do what you did - add up all frames, bur then use multi-pass. That way it's guaranteed to be dead-on accurate.

[aftertaste]

hey famous excellent work i'm pleased to say i've done about 20 movies so far using your tool and everyone has been dead on accurate. Nice and simple straight to the point. I love it.

[FamousPerson]

Thanks!

[aftertaste]

Question famous is there a way to calculate hummm how do i put this. OK say within dvd decrypter to see a movie that is gonna be close to fitting on a dvd-5 after taking out the extra audio streams but its so close that unless you rip it and tear it apart you won't know for sure. Well in decrypter under stream processing it will show all the audio files. Is there a way to tell the video bit rate and do a calculation to figure out what the actual size of the movie would be after ripping out the unused audio streams and menus. My point is if the movie won't fit then i'll do all my demuxing within dvd decrypter and if not then i'll do it in file mode and use ifo edit to strip streams. This saves me time either way. Weather i have to re encode or just strip the streams i can save time by making that decision before i even rip it to the hd for the first time. So many times it has been so close that i have made the wrong decision and had to go and do it over. I'd rather not author a new dvd if its gonna fit in the first place. I know this may sound silly but it really does make sense if you think about it.

[FamousPerson]

aftertaste:

As far as I know, no. But I have seen lists in this forum of DVDs that will fit on DVD5 after stripping. You may want to try to "look it up" if a DVD is close.

But also, there is no need to re-author such disks. Just rip the DVD in file mode (entire disk is easiest if you have room, otherwise just main movie, plus it's IFO and BUP, plus VIDEO_TS.*). Then open VTS_0X_0.IFO with IFOEdit. Then press "VOB Extras" and you can create a full working DVD in a new folder of just the movie and whatever audio and subtitles you want. Details on what settings to use in IFOEdit can be found in Step 4 of this guide:

http://doom9.org/mpg/ifoedit-basic.htm#stripaudio

[HOGGER]

I must say that I had encountered some difficulty’s using cce until I came upon your wonderful program.
With its uses and cce…… along with dvdmaestro
I’ve had nothing but prefect results

Thank you very much