Anyone wondering if its worth it anymore?

[cinephile]

dvdwizard ... and when the video file is too big to fit on the disc??
then what? removing credits is not going to make a diff when the audio and video files add up to 7GB, for example, and you only have 4.7GB to play with.

Back to the point, can someone define generic media for me? Are we talking unbranded or what? I'm using Datasafe Gen 3 and DVD Master Gen 4 and I'm wondering if they are going to fail me in 12 mths or more.

[f@chance]

The 3rd generation disks are not long enough in existance to make a credible analyzis. I am using the same Datasave 3rd Gen disks and I am quite happy with them. 2 or 3 years from now we will no if it was junk or not. But than on the other hand by that time maybe the content providers have got their act together and are releasing disks that one would rather buy than dupe and I am sure that some of the disks that you have now on DVD-R will come back in some directors cut or special incarnation so that they can milk some more money out of an aged product. Maybe than it is the time to buy pressed DVDs.

F@Chance

[cinephile]

better cross my fingers then.... :mad:

[dvdwizard]

cinephile... You simply split the audio and video up and produce two DVD's. If you just want to produce one DVD then re-encoding is the only option, but time and quality will be lost.

[Taz69]

Wasn't this about 'Is it worth ripping DVDs ?' rather than a debate on media.

For me the answer has to be yes...

If I just want to rip a film I can do with the minimal abount of effort and have the full film for a couple of quid but I've found that I normally enjoy the challenge of attempting to re-create the whole of the disc whilst making improvements to the navigation.

I copied the Lord of the Rings movie disk and it took me hours but the enjoyment and satisfaction I got from doing it and producing a DVD-R which looks exactly like the original (complete with all those menus) leaves me with a disc I would not trade for the original DVD.(Well I would but I would copy it first :sly: )

As for the learning process I have followed tutorial here and and from other sites as well as spending hours just experimenting with Maestro to see how I can reproduce a certain effect within the menus of a specific film. I use CCE & Maestro and get excellent results without spending too long encoding.

Besides I think I do it because it is actually illegal and a way of saying up yours to the companies who keep ripping us off :devil: with yet another Special edition of an old film which should have been discounted by now.

As for media after testing several brands I'm settling on Traxdata media because it is cheap and works on every DVD player, consol & DVD rom that I've had chance to try it on...

Finally THANK YOU to Doom9 and everyone who has contributed to this site. Your hard work is appreciated...

[jesoonster]

commanderl xjl. I believe your story and waht happened to you. I'm wondering if you can show us a post or any comments on the web about another person experiencing the same problem as you did. It's not to verify that the information you provided to us is true or not. I want to read as many posts as possible to find out the root of the problem or to help me again even a slight understanding of what is happening. I'm sure you don't want the same thing happening to fellow doom9'ers as it happened to you....so can you please provide us some links of posts that were discussing problems similar to yours? Thank you.

[Commander XJL]

It would be pretty hard to find a specific post on this forum, especially after months, but there is a girl on this forum that said it happened to her too when this matter was brought up months ago. There were also people talking about it on VCD help forum. From what I've read nobody is sure why it happens, one guy on VCD help said he read it was because of inferior dye the crap media people use, plus maybe in addition the corners they cut on manufacturing and tolerences. People think generic media is cheap because the people that make it want to be nice and give you a break, and they don't care if they make money. But obviously it's because of the corners they cut using cheap components, cheap manufacturing processes, and tolerences that suck. Thats why when I've read literally dozens and dozens of posts over the last year or more where people are complaining about pixalation, picture freezing, sound going in and out, players locking up, DVD's not playing after the first 50 minutes, you always hear the words Princo, Mertline, CDRecordable.com, Optodisk, ect. But when people complain about these problems you never hear the words Pioneer, Sony, Imation, Apple, TDK, ect. Go figure

[jesoonster]

. But obviously it's because of the corners they cut using cheap components

I compeltely agree with your statement here. That was the first thing i noticed when i received princo disks. The "cuts" around teh dvd-r are bad... i noticed "grain like dust particle like things" that came off the disk when i rubbed the corners. If it gets on your dye then your player won't read....

doesn't happen with better media. I agree with you. Difference in the "finish" is worlds different between generic (princo) and the nongenerics.

, cheap manufacturing processes, and tolerences that suck.

I don't doubt that either.

Thats why when I've read literally dozens and dozens of posts over the last year or more where people are complaining about pixalation, picture freezing, sound going in and out, players locking up, DVD's not playing after the first 50 minutes, you always hear the words Princo, Mertline, CDRecordable.com, Optodisk, ect. But when people complain about these problems you never hear the words Pioneer, Sony, Imation, Apple, TDK, ect. Go figure

lol very true. I can't contest what you say here.

I'm just searching for a cheaper alternative that is reliable ^^; just live everyone else....

i'm probably going to use riteks to copy movies i won't have access to....

just out of curiosity what/where were the brands that people bought that had problems like you described?

cd recordable was yours. how about others?

[Commander XJL]

With me it happened with CDRecordable and Optodisk. Both these disks looked like they were manufactured in someones garage. It was months ago I was reading about this, don't remember the brands people were bitching about, I just remember it was generics. If people were smart they would just spend 3 or 4 bucks a disk and be able to sleep at night, plus realize that soon name brands will be 2 dollars then one dollar a disk. Of course, then the cheapskates will still buy generics cause they'll be 40 cents a disk, but thats their choice. But even if you spend 4 dollars a disk, your saving a ton of money instead of buying the real DVD's. But for some people how much they can save is never enough, so they take the risk of buying generics. I want to spend as little as possible too, but so far for me that has been a big mistake that cost me more in time and money than if I just spent my money on name brand media. I just don't have the guts to try generics again. But if I knew of some I could trust I would buy them, I just don't know which ones that is. With generics you often need some magical combination of burning software, burner, and standalone for them to play right, and I don't feel like searching for that combination any longer. If more people would quit buying these disks maybe they would make them better.

[jesoonster]

With generics you often need some magical combination of burning software, burner, and standalone for them to play right,

I have to admit that's very true. hehe. You do need a magical combination..........right drive settings, right program and right standalone for princos at least....

If more people would quit buying these disks maybe they would make them better.

........

i know you hate princo...just wanted to tell you. dvd-rw from princo...these are rebadged tdk's according to advdinfo. But again tons supposedly have problems with tdk's so i don't if these are any good...

PRINCO DVD-RW General 4.7GB
Pepek [QTCCDR.COM]
00 42 00 00 01 40 D6 FD 9E D8 20 00 02 0D 07 05 .B...@.... .....
88 76 09 00 03 54 44 4B 34 30 31 00 04 73 61 6B .V...TDK401..SAK
75 3D 33 00 05 0B AC 76 11 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 U=3....V........

[brutallo2002]

The main reason I rip and re-author is to get rid of the forced ads, warnings and logos that Hollywood/MPAA loves to shove down your throat. I also enjoy re-doing menus so that they play the way I think they should. For instance, a menu of trailers is usually made to play one trailer at a time with an automatic return to the menu after playing each 1 or 2 minute clip. I like setting it up so that each title on the menu will automatically go onto the next title, no matter which one you click on. :)

********************

About DVD-Rs fading and becoming unreadable: this happened to some double-sided CDRecordables that I purchased last spring, only it didn't take 2 months to go bad, it only took 2 weeks!

********************

Thanks to all here at doom9 for the knowledge!

[atreides93]

Commander, so you had bad luck with cdrecordable and optodisks. Well guess what, cdrecordable went out of business...they were crap...that doesn't mean all generics are crap too.
Obviously a lot of us are using generics and they work for the most part. Why dont' you try some Ritek's from www.rima.com
I've been using them and so far they've all worked flawlessly. i also fill the disk past 4 gigs, and my oritron player has no trouble playing them.

By the way, I don't lose any sleep if one of these disks goes bad...

[jesoonster]

About DVD-Rs fading and becoming unreadable: this happened to some double-sided CDRecordables that I purchased last spring, only it didn't take 2 months to go bad, it only took 2 weeks!


gulp. there we go another person ^^;;;; i guess it isn't just commander then.

Thanks to all here at doom9 for the knowledge!

Thank you i'm bailing out of princo now....




Commander, so you had bad luck with cdrecordable and optodisks. Well guess what, cdrecordable went out of business...they were crap...that doesn't mean all generics are crap too.

Yep that's true. I understand commander's circumstances though. I would be pissed as s--t if all he anime dvds i'm burnign go to dust...makes it 2X worse that I'm sending these burned discs overseas to a person who won't ever have access to those discs again..

Obviously a lot of us are using generics and they work for the most part.

Only thing that makes me worry is if those cheapa-- discs at cdrecordable were princos. the CHEAPEST disc out there is a princo (and i'm guessing cd recordable's cheapest were htose as well) so i'm avoiding those now...

Why dont' you try some Ritek's from www.rima.com

Hell im' switching over to riteks and primedisc 9.4s :D

[jesoonster]

OMG....i'm starting i left my princo dvd-rw and my sony dvd-rw on my desk for about 2 weeks now...

I see nothing on my sony, but i'm seeing changes in the dye in the princo dvd-rw!!!!!! There are these watermark things on there that are NOT on my sony (they were in the exact same conditions!)....

[Commander XJL]

What do the Riteks look like on top, and how dark purple is the dye? Also, are you verifying the disks are really ok by watching your movies from start to finish and looking for pixalation and crap?

[int_53185]

hi guys...just putting in my 2 cents...im with the buy cheap media...media that works....and split the movie if necessary...camp....ive bought cheap media....princo for one...never had any problems whatsoever...no pixilation...no problems at the end of the disc....ever....i did have one problem though....ive just started labelling my discs...am using white princos...and discovered that the label doesnt totally cover the white at the center of the disc...bummer...so i tried to make the label cover the entire disc...then trim it at the center....but dummy me...instead of using an exacto knife....i used my pinky! LMAO!! DONT TRY THIS WITH CHEAP MEDIA!!! lmao...the disc broke in half!...LOL...my only coaster with princo discs! LOL...ive tried ritek...love em....no need to cover the white portion at the center...never a coaster...less then a buck a piece...as for ur cheap media not playing after a while...i think thats baloney...unless u abuse them/leave them in a car or direct sunlight...thats my 2 cents...int

[atreides93]

Yea, basically I rent a movie, back it up to two ritek disks, then a few days later when I get time, I watch the entire movie....

the only generic's i've had trouble with were the 89 cent ones at meritline which aren't ritek by the way, and I had some pixellation issues with Primedisc double sided..but not a lot, just a little bit at one spot in particular. the rest of the movie plays fine.

So as long as I stick with Ritek's i'm happy

I haven't tried the Ritek's on my sony 530D....
hmm, maybe i'll try it tonight just for the heck of it!! see if they play better...see if my sony still skips after the 4gig mark

[jesoonster]

"I had some pixellation issues with Primedisc double sided..but not a lot, just a little bit at one spot in particular. the rest of the movie plays fine. "

uh..........that's bad news.

[jesoonster]

as for ur cheap media not playing after a while...i think thats baloney...unless u abuse them/leave them in a car or direct sunlight...thats my 2 cents...int

well ......i believe what happened to commander....

I'm seeing the dye color change on my princos already and NO i leave them next to my computer and away from light. It was turned upside down and i'm already seen changes in the dye and put it next to my sony dvd-rw (which is fine)....

[Sephan]

Im using cheap disks multiple brands, Labels.. Scan the original cd and use stomper etc.. I dont mess with muxing them down.. if they are too big split em to two discs.. if you dont like getting up to change the disk do like i did and buy a 5disk changer, just as easy to put two disks in there as one..

So i figure Netflix 30 bucks a month, I get 20 rentals in that month, probably use 30 DVD-R's alot of the movies will fit on one disc. labels, box of 100 triple capicity jewel cases, I have 3 bucks in a single DVD-R Movie, 4.50 for two dvd-r movie. Even old old movies still go for 9.99 at Kmart.

Thats excluding the hardware A04 etc.. and I have a second computer dedicated to it.. so time isnt an issue. I would say its worth for me.

I now this isnt a media thread but, im using cheap media from day one.. 3 different online stores, Standard grade, spindle bulk purple, jewel case optidisk all works.. I will have to see about this fading thing down the road. I think alot has to do with your player folks.. Im having great luck with my Sony DVD players.. got 4 of them even the 3 year old plays them ok, but not nearly as well as a 200 NS700P i just bought recently.

[ima2hd]

Commander: I was reading your comments you made & that is exactly why I have not made the jump into DVD recording yet. To much in flux right now and the prices for media are expensive at least on quality media.( Basically you can almost buy the new dvd for the price and hassle of recording it) I'm new to all this, but I have been back and forth about buying a DVD recorder for my PC. I have just started making svcd's I must admit the quality is very close to the DVD. Yes I know no 5.1 sound and you have to put a movie on mutiple discs; but hey dvd/svcd changers are dirt cheap. The quality played back on my 31" Panasanic Super Flat, well it is darn hard to tell the difference. CDR's are so cheap. Honestly I thought the price of DVD recording media as well as DVD recording devices would of dropped faster than they have. I guess there are to many formats out there right now. Just giving my 2 cents here and all of that said I plain on buying a DVD recorder hopefully by 2004 or so. Cheers, Will

[DarkMatter]

He's joking isn't he?....................isn't he? Let's see, .99 for the rental, $1.39 for the disc and case or $2.21 for 2 discs and 1 case, <.10 for the case label, 15-20 mins. of time actually in front of the computer. That's less than 4 bucks (if you are generous with the cost of electricity) and 20 minutes of my time vs. $14-$30 for the commercial copy. Yeah, he's definitely joking.

Ima2hd, you my friend, need to think long term. It's damn difficult to find a changer that actually plays SVCD's today. So, think about how hard it's going to be to find one 5-10 years from now when your current one dies and no one puts video on CD's anymore (think about it, most new PC's don't come with a floppy drive)? I was in the same dilemma about CD vs.DVD as you are. But when I couldn't find a changer that would play SVCD in 3 electronic stores I started worrying about putting so much time into converting only to be stuck with a wonderfully useless collection of shiny round things a few years down the road. In fact, I'm a bit worried that my next DVD player (hi def?) won't be able to read the DVD-R brand I use now let alone (S)VCD.

[Carlos Garcia]

I was wondering, can burning a DVD-R at 1X as opposed to 2X actually make the media readable for a longer period of time? I mean, you would imagine that if the laser stays longer on one spot, then the image would be burned deeper, or better. Just thinking out loud, but food for thought. As for me, I actually believe this theory so I'll keep on burning at 1X.

CG

[ima2hd]

DarkMatter: Thanks for the comments and I understand. I had a single disc Magnavox that plays svcd's beautifully & I just purchased a 5 disc Samsung dvd/svcd player for $150 last weekend. yes eventually it will croak. And then I'd be forced to watch my svcd's on my pc I guess that isn't so bad I have a nice monitor. But yes I know what your getting at I might not be able to get a svcd player down the road. I am also one of those who has been dissapointed with no High Definition software or playback media everything with HD has to be real time. I was working for an Electronics store back in 97' when DVD came out & our current HD system came out about that time or shortly thereafter with no playback media for HD. And indeed I would think that when HD DVD players do come out hopefully they will play back older dvd's dvdr's etc. maybe even svcd's. Then you will see re-realeses of everything all over again speial edition this special edition that etc etc etc. with a new special edition of that same title soon to follow 9 months later.. isn't every DVD a special edition or a Ultimate edition or wait lest we forget Director's Cut/Uncencored. Take Care Will

[rsubishop]

for what its worth for the discussion, i've used nothing but optodisk media, with labels for the past 6 months with no problems with the disks. I'm with the group that splits the dvd into 2 disks and i've gotten my actual computer time down to around 3 minutes which makes it well worth my time to burn dvds. As far as pixilation ect.. I've never seen this or any of the probems ive read about on here. I experience two scenarios:1. The disk plays perfect, (about 95%) or 2. The disk doesnt play at all.

[padre]

rsubishop

Good feedback! I'm glad to hear of another individual who uses 'inexpensive' media and doesn't have major problems. A few on this board believe the only way to create a good, reliable DVD it to pay higher prices for the disc.

I too split my DVD's into 2, rather than recompile and lose quality. Besides, at $1.30 or so a disc, it's not worth the time/effort. The only step I'm working on next is to keep the menus, and I've had help with that from a few cool people on this board.

[rsubishop]

Here's another thought to the cheap media. Please keep in mind this was all speculation based on a little experience. I used to work with a local music production studio makeing cdr copies of local bands music for them. I probably burned around 3000 disks. As everyone did with cdr, I tried the cheapo 15 cent disks. The results I had were this: If I used unbranded disks, there were invariably problems. I'm not sure as to why, but you will notice that cheap unbranded cdr's are much easier to see through than nicer disks. If I used cheap "branded" cdr's, everything worked fine, but of course this hindered the labeling. Possibly the reflectivity is a problem with the unbranded ones? So If I wanted unbranded disks to work I had to used better disks. maybe the same is true with dvdr? The optodisk I'm using has a label on it. For everyone having problems with the cheap media, is it branded or unbraded? This is all speculation though, but as I said, I'm having great success with my cheap media.

[rsubishop]

When I said the optodisk i'm using has a label on it, I meant it has a brand on it, sorry :)

[rsubishop]

hey jesoonster,

I'm not questioning the validity of your test, but try somthing other than a dvd-RW The rewritables are a different dye all together. Not really a fair test.

[padre]

rsubishop

I wondered the same thing (branded vs non-branded) because when I initially bought PrimeDisc, they had the PrimeDisc logo stamped on the top layer. However, in the bulk (50 & 100) spindles, they have no logo on top. They also work perfectly.

But for me, the key has been using ADVDinfo to see the true manufacturer and 'generation' of the disc.

What's funny is a couple of people have had some problems with the 'unbranded' TDK's, and when they looked at the disc with ADVDinfo, it was the same as the branded ones. Weird?!

[rsubishop]

Padre,
If the tdk disks they were having trouble with were unbranded, and they were the same disks as the branded ones, it kind of matches the results I had with cdr media. Maybe having the brand on them makes them read better for some reason? reflectivity? I know your not having trouble, but maybe your player has a stronger laser? is that possible? I know my jvc player will read anything I through at it, but maybe other players are more finiky? (sp?)

[padre]

You could be on to something. I know that if you use labels that have bad glue, you can effect the ability to read the data, because it eats away at the top side (which, in turn, effects the recording side).

[gooki]

I do it for the fun and to make myself more knowledgeable about the DVD video format. I also sell DVD-R media and want to be able to help out my customers if they ever encounter problems, so having this wealth of information in my head and on the net is a godsend.

[Taz69]

I think the reason why branded discs seem to work better than unbranded (or from a cheaper brand) discs is down to quality control.

With DVD-Rs I have done a fair amount of testing to find which discs play on my friends DVD Player without problems and have noticed that several brands which should be the same discs have very different results.

This is speculation but I expect CD & DVD media is graded in a similar fashion to processors.

i.e. with processors it is well known that a P4 1.6Ghz could be exactly the same chip as a P4 2Ghz other than the fact that in testing the P4 2Mhz is of a higher quality, were as the 1.6Mhz processor might run okay at a lower speed but show errors when Intel attemt to run it at a higher speed due to slight defects on the chip.

From my results I'm sure that something similar is happening with CD/DVD media in that TDK (for example) test their blank discs and brand the perfect ones for themselves. Of the ones which are not upto standard some of these are likely to work but just don't quite pass QC and these are the ones which end up being supplied by cheaper brands depending on their more tolerant QC checks. This would follow that the unbranded media could have failed several QC checks and only passed a more relaxed quality check before being sold at the cheaper price unbranded.

I have had 'discussions' with one or two suppliers who are trying to sell unbranded media on the strengh that it has to be better because it is Generation 3 (4 now) where I know from burning that the discs I am after might not be the latest versions out but they work because they are of a higher quality.

I'll stop waffling and just say that if you find something that works don't change just because of a higher number or because the supplier tells you it is the same as such and such a disc.(Try a few first...)

[baker]

right I havent read teh rest of this post but if you me opinion, read on.

buy a 100 cd holder, also buy 100 crappy blank dvds, and a felt tip marker, total cost=25 bucks.

get dvd-dvdr by chat walker, and a copy of CCE, total cost .20 bucks.

Now when ever you rent a dvd you can stick it in, copy it in faster then real time, burn it and wella!! total movie copied and burnt in 2-3hrs, (while you were asleep of course! ;-))

Now why on earth isn't that worth doing.

also in the wsie words of norm peterson:

"never overthink, otherwise everything fall's apart"

Baker