AMD or Intel - Which Re Encodes Faster?

[NeVeRLiFt]

I dont recall calling anyone stupid.... but I think I knocked someone off there P4 high-horse if thats what you mean.

Everything I have said has been true....


Special notice:

AthlonXP 2200+ 1.8GHZ = $211.00

P4 2.53GHZ = $596.00


Fastest DDR = $205.00

Fastest Rambus - $379.00


Now go read the reviews and look over the benchmarks and lets leave it at that ;)

[chainsaw135]

Well i could put my 2 cents in about my feelings on the whole thing, but right now i'm concerned with people that start taking pot shots at others, just because of the persons opinion. Thats why my reply directed was towards you. I see you belittle someone because he likes P4's over AMD. Here is a quote from your post which i find it to be on the border line of tolerable and a bit annoying "Smart people know for the money the P4 and Rambus suck!" And not only that but i ask you very nicely to tone it down and you take a little shot at me, i dont appreciate that.

[gerti67]

Oh boys, please stop bickering! - Like Chainy already said, I can't stand it anymore.

What's this quarrel all about? The starter of this thread just wanted to know what machine is fastest in video encoding using REMPEG mainly. So there's no other benchmark necessary than this program itsself - so that you can say: "Yes, this machine is faster with it."

And if you're so keen on benchmarks NeVeRLiFt why do you ignore this one (http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020610/index.html)? You know, I myself own a AMD mainly for budget reasons but I don't make a religious cult out of it. You have to face the facts. It's true, when the first AlthlonXPs hit the market Intel had nothing comparable concerning speed and raw power. But time has changed man, now Intel has gone one step further and the new P4 just (b)eats the latest AthlonXP (2200+) in nearly every real world benchmark - see the link above - I guess 32 benchmarks with a variety of programs is what I consider a real life bench.

Hey, and this can change again in a few month when AMD releases the "Barton" with its 512K cache and perhaps SSE2 capabilities (although they say it's only the bigger L1 cache and the 64-bit CPUs will have SSE2 - but who knows). This happens in life from time to time. And Intel wouldn't have been where they are now without AMD and vice versa.

And concerning money, you know some people just calculate this a different way. If I buy a new PC only the costs of the core components (mainboard, CPU, memory) are about 3 times higher when buying the latest P4 instead of buying the latest AthlonXP. But concerning the overall costs for the whole system when speaking of a top notch one then it's only marginally higher (about 600$). And you can't get two AthlonXP systems for the price of one P4 system like some people state here because only the core components is not what I call a runnnig system - let alone that video encoding is not predestinated to run paralleled over a network.

And some users just value their time in money (especially developers and nearly all people that earn money with their PC as well). When you take this into consideration, and you can finish your work/testing/whatever one hour earlier per day and you value this hour with only 10$ each. Hmm, guess what, after 60 days of work/testing/whatever the one that bought a P4 seems to be smarter to me. :sly:

Just my (in)sight on this topic,
Gerti

[NeVeRLiFt]

Ya whatever floats your boat dude.
I think people have more than enough info in these posts to make a wise choice ;)

I would build me a Dual CPU AthlonXP 2200+ setup and be more than happy and with the extra money I have left over I will goto SeaWorld :D

[Stabmaster-Arson]

DVD2SVCD said this
"You are pathetic."
Thats not nice.

Neverlift did not flame yet or call anyone stupid in fact. (Just adding my 2 cents cause mod dude picked on him for some reason and not the other guy). Just saying his point of view.

Homeboys both need to calm down a bit though and we dont need any blatant flame, but discussing a differencing point of view isn't sdo bad.

[NeVeRLiFt]

I dont let it get to me dude, but thank you. :)

I try to help people in my posts and always tell the truth and give good advice to the best of my ability.

If you look over my posts you will see I get flamed and attacked alot ROFLOL all for trying to make some helpful posts on how to make good 1cd rips.

[dvd2svcd]

If you people would read the entire thread you'd see that I have pointed to many sources that disproves neverlifts statements. He claims to be telling the truth, but he does not. Maybe he thinks he does, but he doesn't. And the fact that he cannot accept fact make him per definition pathetic, or at least his stubbornness is. I truly feel sorry for the people he has mislead in this thread. And apparently the only arguments he has left is the money argument, which is not one to be considered in this thread (again read the subject).

So, to all who thinks I am the bad guy, I urge you, read the entire thread and I am sure you will agree that neverlift is indeed pathetic.

He is allowed to his opinion ofcourse, but that does not make what he says the truth.

And if you read the thread you will see that I more than once agrees that AMD gives you more bang for the buck but that does not make it faster.

I know that neverlift is one who never stops rambling, so for this thread to end I quit now and let neverlisft have the final word if he so wishes. I have said what I wanted to say and enough is enough.

[NeVeRLiFt]

Peace
And I think you said it best "AMD gives you more bang for the buck"

And the benchmarks prove the AthlonXP more than hold there own.
Whats sad is the P4 needs 700mhz more than the AthlonXP to tie or beat it.

[dvd2svcd]

Peace.

And for the record, I never disputed those two statements :)

[auenf]

heh, didnt i say in a amd v intel thread somewhere that its fighting words?

but in summary, each CPU has its own benefits:

Athlon: Fast ALU/FPU, 3dnow! (and derivitaves) support, SSE support morgan and pal and newer), cheap (ish)

P4: Fast ALU, SSE and SSE2 support, runs cool, very good motherboards and chipsets availble.

and they all have their disadvantages too:

Athlon: runs very hot, still not a chipset available for it that matches the i845 that the P4's can get.

P4: slow FPU (intel is trying to push SSE2 rather than raw FPU), expensive(ish)

and please, no flaming, im sure the forum doesnt like the scars.

Enf...

[Zhnujm]

ReMPEG2 XP1800: 90ms for a full pal frame (720x576) at 80% bitrate

if now somebody can post results for a P4 or faster XPs we can finally answer the thread starters question ;)

[ppera2]

Why always such threads AMD vs Intel ? Especially it's not good idea by video encoding where memory bandwith has very great influence.

I just want to say that good MB with fast memory is much more important here than CPU itself. And if you are limited with money it is essencial.

[theReal]

I just want to say that good MB with fast memory is much more important here than CPU itself.You're right - but then there's the question: which chipsets are better right now? Those that are available for Intel, or those that are available for AMD? ;)

[Emp3r0r]

I will be purchasing a new motherboard, cpu and memory in the next couple of weeks and what is funny is this thread has not one bit helped in my decision. The following things have me in a split decision.

AMD is faster for cheaper
Intel can match that with northwood overclocking potential

AMD is about to get DDR400
Intel is about to get DDR400

AMD is initially hot
Intel might be just as hot after overclocking

AMD 2200 will be about $211
Intel 2ghz will be about $221 (yet faster after FSB overclock)


So, as you can see, this decision is very hard. At the moment I am leaning towards P4 because it is better @ encoding: http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020610/images/image012.gif

Whats sad is the P4 needs 700mhz more than the AthlonXP to tie or beat it.
If these CPU's could be compared based on MHZ, then the Athlon 1.8 is almost 80 dollars more expensive than the p4 1.8. Where is your argument now?

[gerti67]

@Emp3r0r:

Hah, believe me - it's impossible to make the right decision when it comes to buy and assemble a PC! I learned that over the last years. ;)

After weeks of carefully reading tests, suggestions, reviews and comparing prices you buy your "dream-machine" and guess what - right after you have assembled it at home one of the following things happen:

- the prices of the CPU you just bought drops by 50% or the price of the other CPU brand you haven't bought because it was to expensive drops.

- this applies to the memory also and any other components.

- the mainboard manufacturer of the brand you just bought ships a new version of the mobo you have just put into your tower case with a lot of new features at nearly the same price.

- Intel/AMD announce a mind-boggingly new technology, they claim to be the (only) way for the future - and it sure is not compatible with the hardare you just bought.

- ...

So you see you can never win this race - you can just pray that it doesn't catch you the real hard way and all points I mentioned happen at the same time. :D

Just from my experience (and don't take it too seriously),
Gerti

[NeVeRLiFt]

Well if you have a AthlonXP @ 1.8ghz .... it takes a P4 running at 2.5ghz to even tie it or beat it in benchmarks :p
Duh!!!


Originally posted by Emp3r0r
If these CPU's could be compared based on MHZ, then the Athlon 1.8 is almost 80 dollars more expensive than the p4 1.8. Where is your argument now?

[chainsaw135]

gerti67 is totally right about him stateing its so hard to buy because it seems like right after you purchase something it drops in price buy 50% or more. I remember when i bought my geforce 3 card it was going for $167.00 U.S dollars. Not even 7 days after that it dropped down to $110.00 and thats not the first time something like that has happened.

[unplugged]

Ogg Vorbis encoder (oggenc.exe) 06-04-2002 compiled with Intel C++ Compiler 6.0 + optimizations:

my machine:
Athlon XP 1600+ @ 2100+ (1733 MHz)
Epox EP-8KHA+ VIA KT266
512 Mb DDR 266 MHz
OGGENC performance: ~12.8x

machine tested at work:
Gigabyte Intel 845 DDR
Pentium 4 Northwood 2400 512K cache
256 Mb DDR 266 MHz
OGGENC performance: ~12.0x

Test system is Windows XP (both machines), memory amount isn't relevant since this kind of encoding is 99.99% CPU core intensive. SURE.
Hey guys, and it's optimized for intel chirps!
ha ha ha ha !!!

Looking to some test over the net we can see SSE2 powerful, must admit.
HOWEVER REMEMBER THAT NOT ALL ALGORITHMS ARE SSEABLE!!!
VECTORIZATION (3DNOW!/SEE/SSE2) PROCEDURES HAVE THEIR APPLICATION OF COURSE, BUT THERE ARE VERY DIFFERENT CONTEXTS WHERE MATH CALCULATIONS ARE USED, MAYBE WITH OR WITHOUT THESE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS.
So FPU power is still important and this K7 boy is very strong with its 3 FPU units ;).

(check results: Viewperf 7.0, MPC Musepack performace, ScienceMark, POV-Ray, 3DS MAX 4)

[NeVeRLiFt]

@unplugged
Good post!

Most people just dont realize how weak the P4's FPU power is ...
And SSE2 cant make up for that. Thats why it takes a 2500mhz P4 to beat a 1800mhz AthlonXP.

[auenf]

Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
@unplugged
Good post!

Most people just dont realize how weak the P4's FPU power is ...
And SSE2 cant make up for that. Thats why it takes a 2500mhz P4 to beat a 1800mhz AthlonXP.

well, the 1800mhz Athlon XP beating the 2500mhz is both using FPU, with SSE2 properly implemented would make the P4 toast the same clock Athlon, but dont count on that sort of implementation becoming mainstream until both cpu's support SSE2 (which wont happen, cause Hammer will be first AMD chip to get SSE2

Enf...

[trbarry]

Looking to some test over the net we can see SSE2 powerful, must admit.
HOWEVER REMEMBER THAT NOT ALL ALGORITHMS ARE SSEABLE!!!
VECTORIZATION (3DNOW!/SEE/SSE2) PROCEDURES HAVE THEIR APPLICATION OF COURSE, BUT THERE ARE VERY DIFFERENT CONTEXTS WHERE MATH CALCULATIONS ARE USED, MAYBE WITH OR WITHOUT THESE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS.
So FPU power is still important and this K7 boy is very strong with its 3 FPU units .

Don't know about audio but decoding video with DVD2AVI and MPEG2DEC is mostly done in SSE assembler, usually integer. This means the compiler optimizations have much less affect but my own experiments in adding SSE2 optimizatons made (IIRC) about a 20% difference in decoding speed, or a 10% difference in total reencoding job time, on the same P4.

And I think XviD has some similar SSE2 optimizations now, though they may not be turned on by default.

- Tom

[unplugged]

Originally posted by auenf
...with SSE2 properly implemented would make the P4 toast the same clock Athlon...

Excuse me, but leave GOD-mode to doom-like stuff.
This things can happen mostly with Sandra & Company SYNTHETIC benchmarks, not in real life problematics.

Never seen this scenario,
Neither at those discording benchmarks between www.tomshardware.com and www.anandtech.com (and look at the rest of the www and will see as test results are very different... especially gaps mooore flatten between P4 and K7, when in favor of the one or the other...)

about same clock...

Do you imagine the performance of one Athlon at same clock? Sadly, at this point even a P3 Tualatin could be faster than P4 with 95% of software applications.

The reason? P4 is good but isn't so genuine complete package as P3 or K7.

The first reason of reputation for an innovative CPU would be the overall (ON ROAD) gain in superscalar/RISC core performace, secondly the SSE1-2-3-4-5 pumping patches.
To me, P4 doesn't seem so genuine as its digital ID claims.


Look at the "package" incredible similarities :D:

Athlon: overall genuine and flexible native superscalar performance
No particular speed flaws to run old, new, various conditions:
think "Ferrari + Bridgestone tyres"

Pentium 4: brute force boost but very fluctuating gain performance.
Very promising and technically potential package, though particulary suitable for certain "statistically most common" conditions:
think "Williams + BMW + Michelin tyres"

[p3distxii]

Just finished setting up my AMD 2200 XP(!!) with 1024mb DDR!! Can't wait to try this shit out. Took about 24 hours rempeg2ing on my last system

[TheCocaCola Kid]

When someone tests P4 Xeon processors against a Dual AMD system then I am willing to talk.

My system is P4 XEON (Dual) and no AMD system out there can touch it I know because I build lots of them for my customers and none of the hottest AMD dual systems I built can even touch my system.


So test those two against each other and post the pics of the benchmarks and watch AMD hang its head in shame.

My opinion AFTER seeing tons of proof first hand!


And yes I know Intel P4 Xeon cost a ton more than AMD but if you want the good toys you always pay more. ie: Camaro compared to Ferrari!

So flame away I have thick fire proof skin.

[theReal]

Xeons are of course better than any AMD or normal P4.
But usually, people don't mean "dual Xeon" when they talk about buying a P4 system :)

[TheCocaCola Kid]

I did and it kicks AMD's slow little butts back into the dark ages!

Xeon from now on baby! They are getting quite cheap too in Canada.

P4 2.0Ghz $300 Can

P4 2.2Ghz $400 Can

P4 2.4Ghz $$870 Can damn they dropped again, I paid $950! Argh! Oh well, that's the tech trend!

And don't forget when you transfer that to US $ you could get the P4 2Ghz for $200 USD.

And yes these are wholesale prices I get. :D

[ppera2]

90 % of this thread is pure BS. What will help all this swank ?

[TheCocaCola Kid]

Originally posted by ppera2
90 % of this thread is pure BS. What will help all this swank ?

Sorry you feel that way.

Have you tried not reading it!!!!?


LOL

PS: Mine isn't BS!

[theReal]

ppera, I guess you'd love the amdmb.com forums, especially the "processor discussion" ;) :D

[dvd2svcd]

@theReal: I am glad you gave that link :) I love this thread:

http://www.amdforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=143548 :D

[diji1]

great thread. zealots amaze me sometimes.

[Doom9]

I wished I could say that this thread has served its purpose and in one way it certainly has: the "what's best" discussion is just not going anywhere.

allow me to quote from the forum rules: Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!