RealVideo 9 codec

[nordloewe]

RP9 finally finished encoding "Transformers - The Movie"! the picture is pretty good but i have some observations to make and questions to ask. can any of you please comment some? here they go:

1. Net Congestion: i constantly get this warning and it interrupts the playback for about 1sec. my PC is a P3-700 with 384Mb RAM and my movie bitrate is 1059Kbps. is it too much bitrate to my machine??? maybe, right? my 450Kbps cartoons rarely have this problem.

2. ocilation: from time to time, some parts of the picture (that are supposed to be static) keep moving up and down a few pixels. i also had noticed that behaviour with my "Simpsons" encodings, however i thought it was due to their low bitrate (450Kbps). (?)

3. SmartDeinterlace: either i made my script wrong, or it's just a case of bad-naming (DumbDeinterlace). the movie is still interlaced! any comments? i posted my script about 4 msgs above....

4. chopped sound: well, i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with RV9! the WAV i extracted from my VOB doesn't play AT ALL via WMP 6.4! it plays ok through WinAmp, though. :confused: (un)fortunately, WinAmp is my default audio player so i only noticed this strange fact this morning when i heard the chopped sound coming out of the RM and then decided to check my WAV source. i extracted the WAV using Flask 0.6. i boosted the audio a bit using its Dynamic feature. is it a bug?

5. MPEG Ligos: when i tried to play the WAV via WMP, i noticed it says that Ligos MPEG Audio Decoder is handling this WAV playback. (?) i thought that *only* the DirectSound filter was supposed to do it! this WAV is 48Khz. is this normal for this sample rate?

5. MP3: i also have the audio of this movie on Lame MP3....and it plays fine through WinAmp and WMP! is there any script i can add to my AVS that would allow me to combine MP3-audio and video???

well, i'm having a lot problems with RV9 when it comes to DVD backup. i think i will keep using it only for TV cartoons.... anywayz, if anyone has experienced any of these problems and has suggestions, pls, verbalize. i'm quite curious! right now i'm gonna re-extract the WAV using AC3Dec and try to (at least) fix the audio issue....

[31 Flavas]

1.)

If you are playing the files off of your hard drive are getting "net congestion" *AT ALL* then something seriously strange is going on with your computer. What kind of computer is this (speed / processor)?

2.)

Er, i've made about 10 full length rips using RP9 and I don't get any jumping or shaking of the picture. What is the command line you are feeding RP9?

3.)

I espically tried your smartdeinterlace() this morning (as i was typing my reply) and it worked for me. Dunno what is going on with your setup...

4.)

Something had to have gone wrong with your .wav extraction. You may have used some audio codec w/o knowing... I'm no audiophile as long as it is "sounds clean" I don't care what program does the extraction / compression. This is why I just have DVD2AVI do it for me. Either re-try extracting the .wav audio again or have DVD2AVI do it and then try again.

5.)

ok, see i think you extrated the .ac3 but gave it a .wav extenstion or else you mpeg audio compressed it somehow by accident. Ligos is a mpeg codec and if its being used to play back the audio then you don't have uncompressed .wav audio.

----

I'm not having any of the problems you are having so I dunno whats going on. All of my rips are coming out perfect.... :(

-Flavas

[nordloewe]

1)

P3-700, 384Mb RAM, 28Gb HD, ATI AiW 128 Pro.... this Net Congestion is bizarre!

2)

producer -i d:\movies\vobs\TF.avs -ad 800k -am music -vm sharp.

despite its name, my audience is set for a maximum bitrate of 1100Kbps. btw, the suggested M$ XML Notepad is great for audience editing! later i'll try to cut a 10sec part of it and post it here in the forum. but i believe my PC configuration is responsible for that. i just don't know where exactly is the source of this prob.

3)

i have more info on the SmartDeinterlacing thing. i tried old Flask 0.6 de-interlace filter set on "blend" mode and threshold = 2 and the interlacing didn't disappear! although slow, Flask's de-interlacing filter never dissapointed me. i was quite surprised! i decided to try Xmepg 4.5 de-interlacing filters and the only one that improved (but didn't completely fixed it either) was "Greedy Odd". i'm quite sure that this cartoon is one of those problematic ones that never come out perfect. well, i'll stick with "Greedy Odd"....

4)

i tried AC3Dec and now the resulting WAV plays fine via WinAmp and WMP. cool! i used Flask to extract the WAV. i don't know how it could have messed with the file.... it was strange.

well, i won't try RP9 on high bitrate files anymore.... that Net Congestion issue is strange and annoying. and the funny thing about it is that it always comes in the same parts of the movie. no matter how many times i rewind it and play it back.... :confused: tonight i'll try to encode with DivX 5. i don't like the macroblocks it generates along the edges of the objects, but i have no other choice since i tried GKnot already and it really messed with the picture. it's noteworthy the fact that it was the only single time GKnot let me down.... maybe i should have tried it with the "AntiShit" option on.... GKnot ROCKS!

[nordloewe]

does anyone here knows the functions of the settings below?

quality: 30-100
maxStartupLatency: 4-25 seconds

i believe the "Quality" value is only used when encoding on "vbrQuality" Mode.... as for "maxStartupLatency", i'm puzzled!

another question.... which audio format (cook + falvour) is everybody using? i'm starting to think that "atrac 3" (132 Kbps Stereo Music - RA8) is too much to my machine.... i'm considering "cook 25" (96 Kbps Stereo Music - RA8).

btw, all RA8 formats are VBR, right? RealNetworks should provide a help file with some more details on the prog. i find myself guessing quite often. :( that's really a wasting of time. any URL where i could find more in-depth information about RV9???

last question: did anyone get to make batch processing work? i mean, i tried to encode 2 files but only the first ones were done. RP9 seemed to have closed (or crashed) after finishing with the first files. :confuse:

[Peters]

@nordloewe

Choose File->Work Offline to avoid this strange Net Congestion (well i hope)

[Latexxx]

Maybe your hard disk is so fragmented that real player doesn't get the file fast enough and gives you then the error "Net Congestion"(normally it appears when bandwith goes too sloooooow when streaming).

[atracus]

hey man,
I read from your banner that you happened to release a couple of GUIs for other commandline proggies - why don't you consider to develop a GUI for rv9 too, provided that the "non-preview" release will probably be

1. with a GUI, *BUT*
2. not for free,

so we'll probably stick to this pre- for a while?

thanks in advance for your kind response.

bye
[atx]

[31 Flavas]

is it *REALLY* that hard to figure out command line RP9?

Or are you just a lazy ass that wants 'point & click' :p :p :p

[atracus]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas

Or are you just a lazy ass that wants 'point & click' :p :p :p

hehehe

yes im a lazyass dude, :D !!!

no of course I like to play with the win32 console, as well as you did, but I think that a gui might help this release to spread about amongst those who dont bother to spend time on a pdf "manual", as the included prerelease :|

anyway, Ur choice man!

take care

[atx]

[ECY]

Just a question
is that right that RV9 the codec from ON2 (VP4) use ?
If so is it possible to playback RV9 files on WMP6.4 with Vp3.2 installed ? since VP3.2 can decode Vp4 stream.

[Neo Neko]

No. WMP can not open or understand RM files. If it could and you have a directshow or VCF version of VP4 installed then yes. So the answer is no.

[oledoe]

Did you notice that when you open a .wmv file with MediaPlayer it takes a couple of seconds till you get video playback? Streaming media for the web tries to mantain a constant "download" bitrate, while having variable video bitrate. Suppose you are encoding video at 300kbps, and your video starts with an easy compressible 10 seconds video sequence, that only takes 150kbps to encode. Let's say the next 10 sec. scene needs more than 300kbps to encode. The codec can encode it at 450kbps. The codec can use the unused bits (10 sec * 150kbps) to expand the bitrate available to this scene without really transmiting over 300kbps.
So far, so good. The problem arises when you have the opposite case: a high bitrate scene followed by a low bitrate scene. In this case, you can do something similar, but you have to decide how much time you're willing to wait, once you've opened the file, to have smooth video playback. That's because the player has to buffer the received stream until it has all the encoded video it needs to have smooth playback.
That's what this parameter indicates. If you're using RealProducer 8.5, you will notice that the configuration dialog doesn't allow you to set a MaxStartupLatency higher than 25sec. Luke's Guide (http://www.geocities.com/lukesvideo -- a must read if you're encoding cartoons) shows how to avoid this limit editing the Windows registry, so that the codec uses the whole lenght of your video to implement the variable bitrate encoding.

[nordloewe]

thanx for the hint! i checked Luke's page and it is really good! unfortunately he hasn't updated it yet (there's no mention of RV9). well, i first developed this theory about maxStartupLatency after reading the DivX options throughly (as one of them does the same), however i could never know it for sure. well, now i found someone else that thinks the same way i do.

i increased my mSL inside my audience file but now i get an error message that says the value i chose "isn't allowed and therefore RP9 will employ the default value" (probably 4). i tried the registry but the key Luke mentions on his site only applies to RealProducer 8.x!

does anyone have anything to add?

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by atracus
hey man,
I read from your banner that you happened to release a couple of GUIs for other commandline proggies - why don't you consider to develop a GUI for rv9 too, provided that the "non-preview" release will probably be

1. with a GUI, *BUT*
2. not for free,

so we'll probably stick to this pre- for a while?

thanks in advance for your kind response.

bye
[atx]

I'll see what I can do. It may take a while, because of lots of options.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by nordloewe
thanx for the hint! i checked Luke's page and it is really good! unfortunately he hasn't updated it yet (there's no mention of RV9). well, i first developed this theory about maxStartupLatency after reading the DivX options throughly (as one of them does the same), however i could never know it for sure. well, now i found someone else that thinks the same way i do.

Just be aware that if you use the RP8.x VBR hack, the files will be unstreamable. The startup delay (the buffering part) will take the entire lenght of the clip pretty much.

Not that you are going to be streaming the files.... but just so you know.

-Flavas

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas

Just be aware that if you use the RP8.x VBR hack, the files will be unstreamable. The startup delay (the buffering part) will take the entire lenght of the clip pretty much.



roger!

after a week of probs, i finally finished my TFs rip. i don't know what was causing the Net Congestion but whatever it was, it's not acting anymore. the cartoon looks great and the sound is pretty good too. i ended up trying RP9's de-interlacing filter to fix my picture and it worked well. it's not perfect, but it's good! RealProducer is really unbeatable when it comes to cartoon encoding!

i just hope i can find a way to increase the maxStartupLatency value for RP9. that would definitely be a bonus! well, i'll try "Akira" next weekend and if everything goes well, i'll be ready for the main mission: "Star Blazers"! :cool:

btw, anyone knows how to add subtitles to RM files??? is it possible using SML?

[slavickas]

Originally posted by nordloewe


btw, anyone knows how to add subtitles to RM files??? is it possible using SML?

download from realnetworks production guide and look @ realtext examples, but i don't know any tool for automatic conversion

[Latexxx]

rm9gui released @ http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25088

Fastest GUIs on web ;-)

[travis morgan]

nordloewe,

use an .avs file to add subtitles to your .rm files.

the process is similar to to adding subtitles to a divx file using gknot.

all you need to do is modify the .avs file a little bit that gknot produces.

realproducer can read the .avs file.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by nordloewe

it's not perfect, but it's good! RealProducer is really unbeatable when it comes to cartoon encoding!yea, now if we can just get that clueless n00b, *ahem* I mean doom9, to take a look at it... :p :p

-flavas

[travis morgan]

31 flavas,

didn't doom mention in a previous post about maybe doing some tests with rv9?

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by slavickas
download from realnetworks production guide and look @ realtext examples, but i don't know any tool for automatic conversion
thanx for the hint! too bad there's no tool for conversion. :( i thought that SMI subs (used by WinMedia Player) could also be displayed via RealPlayer. aren't they based on RealNetworks' SMIL technology??? here in my system, SML files used to be associated with RealPlayer....they even had the Real's icon representing them! nevertheless, i never experienced RealPlayer handling them.... :confused:

Originally posted by travis morgan
use an .avs file to add subtitles to your .rm files.
the process is similar to to adding subtitles to a divx file using gknot.
i did consider this option however, from what i know, it has some drawbacks (pls, correct me if i'm wrong):

1) you can't turn the subs off;
2) extra keyframes will be genereted to accommodate the subs.

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
yea, now if we can just get that clueless n00b, *ahem* I mean doom9, to take a look at it... :p :p
like Travis said, he "probably" will.... i also read somewhere that he was planning to do some tests. if he tries RV9 on movies, he will likely get dissappointed as the codec smoothes textures quite a bit -- which is, in turn, the very reason why RealVideo codecs are better suited for cartoons! :D) someone had to explore this segment and fill this gap, after all!

well, now we finally have a GUI! cool! thanx Latexxx! i'll try your GUI with tonight's Simpsons eps. i'm quite curious about it! i'll report my findings later on.

[atracus]

Originally posted by nordloewe


btw, anyone knows how to add subtitles to RM files??? is it possible using SML?

quite simple man, if u managed to use subtitles w/ DivX! you just need 2 files, one .rt and one .smil, formatted the right way.

Here is "my way":

1. rip subtitles out of your vob's using i.e. Subrip: in=vob files out=.srt or .sub (v2) files, containing OCR'ed version of your preferred language

2. open the .sub file with Radlight Subtitle Studio 2.0, set the right FPS both in "IN" and "OUT", convert on the second frame to "Realtime" format: in=.sub out=.rt

3. substitute the top rows in the .rt file (the ones containing the <window> statement) with the following lines:


<window duration="2:00:00.00" width="544" height="50" wordWrap="true" loop="true" bgcolor="black">
<font color="white" face="Arial" size="+2">
<center>
<b>


where duration is the total movie length, width the movie width (i.e. from the .avs), height my suggested subtitles' window vertical size

and add at the bottom of the file (after the last <Time Begin> statement) the following lines:


</b>
</center>
</font>
</window>


then, save the file with the name you prefer for the sub's, i.e. "movie-subtitles.rt"

4. edit the .smil file as from the following example:


<smil>
<head>
<layout>
<root-layout backgroundColor="black" width="544" height="338"/>
<!-- on prev. line, add 50 to the actual movie heigth to get "338" -->
<region id="video_region" z-index="1"/>
<region id="text_region" top="288" z-index="2"/>
<!-- top is = height minus 50, i.e. actual movie heigth -->
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<par>
<video src="movie-noaudio.rmvb" region="video_region" fill="remove"/>
<textstream src="movie-subtitles.rt" region="text_region" fill="freeze"/>
<audio src="movie-audio.rm"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>


In the .smil example, movie-noaudio is a rip done on a .rmvb file not containing audio (for easy switching of audio streams), movie-subtitles.rt is the sub's file created at previous step and movie-audio.rm is the preferred-language audio.

You can make your life easier i.e. by coding a single rip including audio + video by omitting the <audio src> statement and referring to the "complete" .rtvb file in just the <video src> statement alone.

My results were impressive, in my (up to now) 4 rips I never had sync problems, neither with audio nor with sub's.


Please let me have your opinions, or alternative / most efficient methods.

tia

bye

[atx]

[Latexxx]

Take a look about this! http://www.ultraplayer.com/

A free player capable of playing directshow + real media !!!

I'm downloading now.

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by atracus
quite simple man, if u managed to use subtitles w/ DivX! you just need 2 files, one .rt and one .smil, formatted the right way. so is the total amount of files "3"??? which one of them will trigger this "system"? i mean, after preparing all files, which one is supposed to be double-clicked to launch video + subs? well, i will only try RealText subtitles in my next rip in the weekend, but i'm quite curious about this.

You can make your life easier i.e. by coding a single rip including audio + video by omitting the <audio src> statement and referring to the "complete" .rtvb file in just the <video src> statement alone.btw, here in my system, although the extension .RMVB is associated to RealPlayer (they even have the RP's icon), my RV9 files aren't opening in RealPlayer! :confused: i'm being forced to rename my RV9 files to *.RM in order to play them. what's the reason for the new extension, anyway?

[31 Flavas]

Hey uhm... I've gotta ask this, the standard "streaming" audience definitions encode to CBR right? Assumeing that is true, would it mean I can skip analysis pass (since it is redundant) and just encode off the bat? Or am I wrong?

Will the analysis pass still help even though it is CBR encoding?

I tried compairing a clip w/ and w/o 2 pass and the end result was I think the 2nd pass didn't do anything (i.e. supporting my theroy) ... but can anyone comfirm / deny?

(I'm doing cartoon encoding)

-Flavas

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by nordloewe
so is the total amount of files "3"??? which one of them will trigger this "system"? i mean, after preparing all files, which one is supposed to be double-clicked to launch video + subs? well, i will only try RealText subtitles in my next rip in the weekend, but i'm quite curious about this.Well, dunno about using realtext... I guess it's an option if you want to be able to "turn off" the subtitles... Otherwise, I would just 'burn in' the subtitles using an avs scrip and vobsub.

(my avs file is listed on page 2 of this thread and shows it being used)

Feel free to PM me if you need help with vobsub. Doom has vobsub in the downloads I think...


btw, here in my system, although the extension .RMVB is associated to RealPlayer (they even have the RP's icon), my RV9 files aren't opening in RealPlayer! :confused: i'm being forced to rename my RV9 files to *.RM in order to play them. what's the reason for the new extension, anyway? Well, I don't exactly know either... I think it may just be to differentiate the 'stream-able' realmedia from the 'download' realmedia. Other than that dunno.

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
Hey uhm... I've gotta ask this, the standard "streaming" audience definitions encode to CBR right? Assumeing that is true, would it mean I can skip analysis pass (since it is redundant) and just encode off the bat? Or am I wrong?
i believe the CBR mode isn't a true CBR. from what i see, its bitrate vary inside a small range -- for all audiences. on the other hand, VBR mode's variation is inside a much larger range. check your audience files and notice that...

56k Dial-up:
avgBitrate = 34k
maxBitrate = 56k

26k Substream:
avgBitrate = 26k
maxBitrate = 34k

750 VBR Download:
avgBitrate = 750k
maxBitrate = 2000k

well, the "VBR Download" presets puzzle me a bit.... what's the reason of limiting the bitrate to the small value of "2000k" in a mode that is supposed to be used for playback from disk???? personally, i never use any of the preset audiences! i always use my own tweaked ones:

maxBitrate = 7000k
quality = 100 (just matters on VBRQuality mode, right???)
maxStartupLatency = 25 (no way to increase it more???)
maxFrameRate = 15/24

in addition to this, i deleted 3 of the 4 "audiostream" tags, leaving only one with the *exact* codec flavour i want! and sometimes, depending on the video source (cable or DVD), i change the flavour (from 32k Mono to 64 or 96K Stereo RA8).

for those that are using Notepad to edit the audience files, i strongly suggest you to switch to Microsoft XML Notepad (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnxml/html/xmlpaddownload.asp)! it's a *freeware* recommended by the RP9's documentation itself! it makes life a lot easier! :cool:

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
Well, dunno about using realtext... I guess it's an option if you want to be able to "turn off" the subtitles... Otherwise, I would just 'burn in' the subtitles using an avs scrip and vobsub.
but that method generates the following issue: new keyframes will be inserted for all frames where a new sub appears....right? can anyone confirm if this theory is right, please? VOBSub seems to be a more practical approach, indeed. i don't know.... i'll give RealText a try before definitely sticking with either method.

can i have multiple subtitle languages in the same RM video? i find it a really cool feature....specialy for language-studying purposes! i like Deutsch! :cool:

thanks for the help, Flavas!

[travis morgan]

31 flavas,

i was going to ask the same question about 2-pass and cbr, but you beat me to it. :)

nordloewe,

i have to agree with you. i don't believe the cbr mode is a true cbr. if it was, why would those audience file contain an aveBitrate and maxBitrate setting. that looks like vbr to me.

i'm assuming to get a true cbr encoding, you'll need to tweak those audience files and set aveBitrate to equal maxBitrate (or vice versa). by doing this, i would see no need in doing a 2-pass now.

[atracus]

Originally posted by nordloewe


can i have multiple subtitle languages in the same RM video? i find it a really cool feature....specialy for language-studying purposes! i like Deutsch! :cool:



Of course you can, just add an extra window of 50 in heigth with the second .rt language added.

And - you won't have 2 bother with keyframes insertions, since you won't touch the video-track! (and can have a second audio-track as well for dynamically switching to a second language when you want to go back to German and have enough of English...! just use the "preferred language" on RealOne preferences, and the suggestions contained on the REALSYSTEM IQ PRODUCTION GUIDE pdf, on the realsystem site).

please ask if you need clarifications from me!

bye

[atx]

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by travis morgan

nordloewe,

i have to agree with you. i don't believe the cbr mode is a true cbr. if it was, why would those audience file contain an aveBitrate and maxBitrate setting. that looks like vbr to me.I dunno, they also have "quality" settings in the streaming definitions (which are ignored, AFAIK) so I would assume the maxbitrate argument is also ignored if encodingtype is cbr...

I (or someone at least) should just fire off an email asking real...

-Flavas

[daiSho]

is media created w/ RM9 protected from being opened back up and converted to other file formats (Mpg, Avi, etc.)? i realize that any video format that is output to 'TV' and recaptured can be re-encoded and such, but does the RM9 format itself afford protection from programs like TMpeg that can crack open .Wmv and most other formats? is there any protection at all? thx in advance all..

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by travis morgan
i'm assuming to get a true cbr encoding, you'll need to tweak those audience files and set aveBitrate to equal maxBitrate (or vice versa). by doing this, i would see no need in doing a 2-pass now.
the very philosophy of developing efficent codecs is to avoid waste of bandwidth, right? so the only format truly CBR is probably the ol' Uncompressed AVI.... :) all others must require the addition of a setting ot two in order to become CBR. in this particular case of RV9, i believe that making "max = avg" would really do the job. but i don't see any advantage of using "true CBR"....not even for streaming.

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by atracus
and can have a second audio-track as well for dynamically switching to a second language when you want to go back to German and have enough of English...! just use the "preferred language" on RealOne preferences, and the suggestions contained on the REALSYSTEM IQ PRODUCTION GUIDE pdf, on the realsystem site).
i never made a movie with two soundtracks... it's an extra load of work that i prefer not to have.... :D and besides, it would inflate the movie size quite a bit. i'd rather use one single audio stream in German and two subs: Eng & Deu.

in order to take advantage of RealText subs, do i have to use RealOne??? i tried it once and didn't like it at all! that player is for RP-8 what WMP-7 is for WMP-6.4: a huge and unecessary conglomeration of features in a cute but heavy interface. i stick with RP-8 for now.

regarding the IQ Guide, i took a look at it at Real website but i found it quite technocratic.... i'll use your guide, instead! ;) and yes, i'll probably need some support. thanx!

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
I (or someone at least) should just fire off an email asking real...
their progs are quite mal-documented. i don't believe they would bother replying to an email about this matter.... i'm actually more curious on the "maxBitrateLatency" option. that would significantly increase the quality of the output file, IMHO.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by nordloewe

in order to take advantage of RealText subs, do i have to use RealOne??? i tried it once and didn't like it at all! that player is for RP-8 what WMP-7 is for WMP-6.4: a huge and unecessary conglomeration of features in a cute but heavy interface. i stick with RP-8 for now.RealOne is an aquired taste, I hated it guts as well, at first. But i'm just going to leave it at that; I want to keep this thread open. I don't want it getting locked because of a childish argument... :)

-Flavas

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by nordloewe

their progs are quite mal-documented. i don't believe they would bother replying to an email about this matter.... i'm actually more curious on the "maxBitrateLatency" option. that would significantly increase the quality of the output file, IMHO. (Although I just posted I didn't want to start a flame war, I have to say something here :p So i'm going to tread pretty lightly, please don't mis-understand me)

We are using RP9 to quote unquote "back up" our movies and cartoons. This isn't exactly what Real has built RealVideo for... Wouldn't you agree that documenting 'out of spec' options (i.e. by finding a way to set VBR latency to 4000 again) is beyond Real's responsibility?

RP9 is pretty well documented as far as operating it and explaining the basic features and editing the audience definitions. How is it that you think RP9 is mal-documented?

-flavas

[travis morgan]

Originally posted by nordloewe

the very philosophy of developing efficent codecs is to avoid waste of bandwidth, right? so the only format truly CBR is probably the ol' Uncompressed AVI.... :) all others must require the addition of a setting ot two in order to become CBR. in this particular case of RV9, i believe that making "max = avg" would really do the job. but i don't see any advantage of using "true CBR"....not even for streaming.

i was mainly looking at "true CBR" in terms of encoding time. by using "true CBR", it would eliminate the need for the analysis pass.

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
We are using RP9 to quote unquote "back up" our movies and cartoons. This isn't exactly what Real has built RealVideo for... Wouldn't you agree that documenting 'out of spec' options (i.e. by finding a way to set VBR latency to 4000 again) is beyond Real's responsibility?
well, RealVideo is for video encoding, right? so all options should be very well explained, regardless of the application each user will give to it. for a Co that is so well-established in this field, i would definetly expect more details about its new codec. remeber that professionals (i'm not a pro, at all!) from all over the world will use it.

and the latency isn't the only thing that bothered me.... they don't say whcih resizing method is used for "fast resizing"....bilinear? near-neighbour? what about the "quality" option? is it just for VBRQuality mode? there are other things that i can't remember now...

i don't wanna start a flame war either, but the help file of WinMedia 8 is quite detailed! just my opinion.... :)

[atracus]

Originally posted by nordloewe


in order to take advantage of RealText subs, do i have to use RealOne??? i tried it once and didn't like it at all! that player is for RP-8 what WMP-7 is for WMP-6.4: a huge and unecessary conglomeration of features in a cute but heavy interface. i stick with RP-8 for now.


Yes man,
afaik RealOne is needed for RealText, at least for me it was the only one that worked. The more I use it, the more I appreciate it - I just disabled the IE window (Preferences/General/RealOne Player Options/On startup display/Player only (no Media Browser)).

Also, the .smil capabilties look great, powerful and atm ...very cryptic to me, I agree they're VERY BADLY documented and a Forum like this does not exist on their site, as it's like honey instead for those like you and me who try to get "the best way" to obtain results.


Originally posted by nordloewe

i'm actually more curious on the "maxBitrateLatency" option. that would significantly increase the quality of the output file, IMHO.

I'll experiment and go through it, if I find something significant I'll let you know.

have fun!

[atx]

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by atracus

The more I use it [RealOne], the more I appreciate it - I just disabled the IE window (Preferences/General/RealOne Player Options/On startup display/Player only (no Media Browser)).

hehe :D

RealOne is radically different than RP8 and i'm sure that is what turns of technophiles initially. But, give it a chance though ;)

-Flavas

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by travis morgan
i was mainly looking at "true CBR" in terms of encoding time. by using "true CBR", it would eliminate the need for the analysis pass.
i think there's a command that "disables the analysis": -dt.
it's better to use it than trying true CBR cause you lose less quality with the fake CBR (if such theory is really correct!).

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
RealOne is radically different than RP8 and i'm sure that is what turns of technophiles initially. But, give it a chance though ;)

i don't find it difficult to use at all. and i like its new look, however it became a big whale. the JukeBox comes integrated with it (or at least, its capabilities) which means that by opening RealOne, i'm loading 2 progs to my memory.... i do like RealJukeBox! although WinAmp is my default MP3 player (it's *light* and functional), i sometimes use RealJukeBox to see the tracks' details such as album artwork and lyrics (i'm one of those nerds that bother to add this extra info to the the ID3 tags. it's a cool feature!).

but i don't want RJB loaded if i'm just watching a cartoon.... when i tried it here, it made my work quite slower. besides, i don't like the new RJB. if i could have RealOne "only-video" player and RealJukeBox 8 installed in my system, i would do the switch. but AFAIK it's impossible.... and it goes against the Real's premise of being "One". :p

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by nordloewe

but i don't want RJB loaded if i'm just watching a cartoon.... when i tried it here, it made my work quite slower. besides, i don't like the new RJB. if i could have RealOne "only-video" player and RealJukeBox 8 installed in my system, i would do the switch. but AFAIK it's impossible.... and it goes against the Real's premise of being "One". :p

:p and I do understand the concept that people don't want a big monolithic program chewing up memeory as well as disk space. To each his own.

I just think that techophiles (I am a technophile myself) sometimes get too "technical" and dismiss a product before even trying it. If you tried it and didn't like it, that's all that is nessary :)

-flavas

[iwod]

I like the new interface of RealOne very much... only if they could skim it down so that we could choose what we install, and may be real could have them better programmed and uses less memory...

[MoonWalker]

where can i download/buy the new Real9 codec?? The RealOne is Real Player 9??

Thanks,
MoonWalker

[philippas]

I really dislike Real and any other Spyware software.
Some people said in previous posts,that R9 is much better than divx & xvid @ lower bitRates, but if you try some smoothening filters you'll have the same or even higher quality than Real9.

[nordloewe]

i finally started working on Akira this week. right now i'm encoding the movie and getting the fllowing msgs:

Warning: Channel 0 below -40 dB since 10 seconds.
Warning: Channel 0 below -40 dB since 11 seconds.
Warning: Channel 0 below -40 dB since 12 seconds.
.
.
.

the msgs keep coming up for a little while then stop for 20-40min. then they start again and disappear again. i encoded a little part of the movie (about 4000 frames) and everything was perfect. this msg only comes up when econding the whole thing. :confused: and by the way, i played the WAV file via WMP and it sounds fine! i also used WMP to test the AVS script and it plays fine as well.

if both script and audio file are ok, how come i get this strange msg?

with this movie i'll try the RealText subtitles and i will definitely need you guys help with that. can anyone confirm wheather RP8 supports RT subs? i really don't wanna upgrade to RealOne. i tested it before and i didn't like it.

[Peters]

@nordloewe

It's not a pb.
Use -daw option (Disable Audio Watchdog ) if you don't want such msg

(silence detection - below -60dB for longer than 10 seconds)

For Realtext subtitles, i got pb too , i try Atracus .smil example and it didn't work (no subtitles..) and i use Realone.

EDIT: sorry, it works, i've made a mistake with the movie time
(window duration tag)

[nordloewe]

Originally posted by atracus
quite simple man, if u managed to use subtitles w/ DivX! you just need 2 files, one .rt and one .smil, formatted the right way.


hi, Atracus! i've been trying to make your subtitle scripts work but i haven't been successful so far. i do get the 50px-high black box where the subs are supposed to be in, but no text appears in it. i made all files just like you said.... :( are you sure there's no mistake in the scripts? i also used RadLight to create the RT sub like you suggested!

do you think that it has to do with the fact i use RP8??? i don't think it should matter cause the SMIL language is old. besides, like i said, the subtitle box already appears, which means that the subs are supported.

btw, from what i understood, the subs only appear inside the box. there's no way to put them on the top of the video? on a widescreen anime it doesn't matter cause we have some unused room on the screen, however on a 4:3 cartoon the subtitle box would affect the video's fullscreen size, i believe.