broken frames when muxing OGMs

[Beave]

When I mux an DivX5 file in an OGM Container, no matter if with or without sound, I get distorted frames once in a while. They are only noticable in motion scenes though, but I see something like 20+ of them in one movie. The avi itself is ok, just the muxing in OGM (tried Koepi's tool and Graphedit) garbles the picture sometimes. This is pretty bad, since you have to watch carefully quite a bit of the movie, until you notice them. Here is a screenshot
(http://www.f4.fhtw-berlin.de/people/s0342232/Pledge.jpg)

You probably all know how this is supposed to look like :sly:

These Bad frames appear always at the same time, no matter what audio I mux it with or where I save them.

I'm using Win XP and the newest OggDS 0.9.9.0.

Anybody else has those problems?

[Neo Neko]

Can't say i have had this problem. I hardly use Divx any more. Are you using 5.01 PRO? That might be partly at fault here.

[Mr. Man]

Originally posted by Beave
When I mux an DivX5 file in an OGM Container, no matter if with or without sound, I get distorted frames once in a while. They are only noticable in motion scenes though, but I see something like 20+ of them in one movie. The avi itself is ok, just the muxing in OGM (tried Koepi's tool and Graphedit) garbles the picture sometimes. This is pretty bad, since you have to watch carefully quite a bit of the movie, until you notice them. Here is a screenshot
(http://www.f4.fhtw-berlin.de/people/s0342232/Pledge.jpg)

You probably all know how this is supposed to look like :sly:

These Bad frames appear always at the same time, no matter what audio I mux it with or where I save them.

I'm using Win XP and the newest OggDS 0.9.9.0.

Anybody else has those problems?



I've got the same problem. I'm using DivX 5.01 Pro, OggDS 0.9.9.0, Quarter Pixel, GMC and B-Frames. Same Issue, currupt frames after muxing in either OggMux or Graphedit.

[MaTTeR]

I'm with Neo here, though I don't use DivX, I've never seen this artifact happen.

Is this happening also with Xvid?

[Beave]

I was using DivX 5.01 Pro as well. But only B-Frames.

I tried demuxing those OGMs back into an AVI Container and those Errors dissapeared. Then I muxed them back into OGM and I couldn't find any bad frames anymore. This is definatly weird and always takes quite some time to track, since I need to watch several minutes of the movie to maybe find those mistakes.

Unfortunatly I deleted those original AVIs where I know they produced those mistakes. I have do some new testing now.

It's pretty dangarous to use OGM at the moment for me. I think I have to wait a little until those mistakes are being taken care of.
Looks like I have to stick to AVI for now or watch the OGM carefully before burning them.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Beave
Looks like I have to stick to AVI for now or watch the OGM carefully before burning them.

Or use Xvid and still enjoy the quality of OGM;)

[Neo Neko]

We will have to point Tobias to this. It was as I feared that there have been problems with the newest versions of Divx 5.01. I have read up on some of the changes and could see a couple of areas where problems could arrise. To those who are experiencing these problems what software did you encode with? It might also be to blame. Virtualdub is basically the only piece of software that I know of to date to propperly handle Divx 5.01. Flask and XMPEG have hardly been touched in the last year or so.

[Beave]

Well I used Virtual Dub with avisynth. But the funny thing is that I muxed it to OGM than back to AVI and back to OGM and could not find any errors anymore, but I have to test more, if I have the time.

[Neo Neko]

Did the movie still look fine?

[Beave]

Yes the movie looked fine, maybe even the same just without the mistakes.

Are You XVID-users sure you don't have those errors? Because you have to watch the whole movie to maybe find some of those.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Beave
Are You XVID-users sure you don't have those errors? Because you have to watch the whole movie to maybe find some of those.

I'm 100% positive I've never seen that artifact on any of my XviD movies, around 50-60 full movies. I would have definitely seen these problems should they have appeared.

[Neo Neko]

Have yet to have a glitch yet. But anything is possible. For Xvid still being Alpha at this point it has been just as capable and stable for me as any version of divx if not more so. Divx has had long standing and notorious problems with AMD and P4 systems. Even with the constant changes to the Xvid code it runs excelent.

[Rasi]

well, as i have been using divx3 and xvid at several resolutions and with both codecs got the same problems i am sure its not a thing about xvid here...

[ChristianHJW]

@all with similar probs :

Please list your video cards and installe driver versions here. Maybe we find similarities and its an incompatibility of Tobias' Ogg parser and a specific video driver or video card !

[animefan]

I had those and other strange problems with OGM files. I encoded the XVID AVI files with VirtualDub and then used GraphEdit to multiplex the XVID (AVI file) and OGG streams into OGM files.

I found out that by first 'converting' the AVI file that was created by VirtualDub into a new AVI file with GraphEdit (multiplexing set to max.) and then using this new AVI file for multiplexing the OGM files those problems disappeared.

[Rasi]

did just try that ..... doesnt work for me...

well, i have a tnt2 card.. (asus v3800) and the latest nvidia detonators...



i am also wondering if its maybe a problem with the playback driver for the ogm files? maybe the file itself is ok... no clue...

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Rasi

i am also wondering if its maybe a problem with the playback driver for the ogm files? maybe the file itself is ok... no clue...

That can't be the problem since I'm using the TNT2 M64 card as well. Like I say, I've never seen this problem before.

Latest official Detonators installed.

[Beave]

I'm using a Asus v7100 Geforce 2 MX with the official Asus driver 2742.

Is there a tool where you can view the ogm like an avi in VDub? It hard to say how many frames in a row those mistakes appear, for example.

[TobiasWaldvogel]

I will try to find out what's going wrong although I really don't like to do DivX test anymore. (My first DivX5 Encoding, TO AN AVI FILE, resulted in some strange green lines and I detected this after deleting the source file). I'm using XVid and I can only recommend to everyone to use XVid instead of DivX. (And for DivX file a mapping to XVid in the OggSpliter :) )

[Rasi]

ok... update.. my last 2 xvid rips... i converted the avi to ogm and got frozen frames... did the same clips with exatcly the same filters on a different machine.. everythings fine.. so software seems not to be a problem.. it must be something else...

not the same graphic cards by the way.... ATI did work

[aleksander]

Well guys..
Hope you will find what can be the problem.
I have faced this yesterday. Tried multiplexing, demultiplexing and again multiplexing and it's still there - at the same part of the movie. Demulitplexed file looks just fine.
FYI - I used VD, divx 5.01PRO (only GMC) on a GeForce 2 PRO with latest detonators (if this can help...)
I haven't tried xvid, so cannot tell if the problem exists with xvid - but for sure it exists with divx 5.01 pro.

take care

[unplugged]

Can be a performance related problem?

I'm using DivX 5.01 and Ogg OGM + Vorbis, on my Athlon XP 2100+ I don't see any glitch.

Must to say that in other non-poor machines I have seen some random stuttering, this seem to appear since latest OggDS filters...... ?


P.S.: Why preferring XviD instead of DivX5 so strongly?
I know XviD is free, but I have made more blind test and at same bitrate I must say that DivX5 has more and more *detail*.
One thing that don't like much is B-frame, almost how it is implemented in DivX5.
50% of B-Frames has too blocky detail.

B-Frame is not yet perfect in DivX5.

[Koepi]

"b-frame is not perfect in divx5"

Well, if you'd use the same quantizers for b-frames as for I adn P frames the result would look way better, but the file size would be bigger than without b-frames.
Until now they just double the quantizer. This is the reason for seeing "blocky details".

And, if you don't want to use XviD, it's your fault.
Don't push the people to a commercial crappy codec. It's blurrier, thus the details are more random effects.

But thanks for your trust in us :P

Koepi

[unplugged]

Originally posted by Koepi
Don't push the people to a commercial crappy codec.
It's blurrier, thus the details are more random effects.

How do you compare frames to say this??? :rolleyes:
Give me a good setup to make the RIGHT comparison, I mean a good setup for XviD.
Hey :), I m not talking bad of XviD.
I made my comparison with two VirtualDub sessions and/or directly with players (with postfilter to 0)

About random effets, I know what you mean, but this patterning or dithering is most generated by Q-Pel, and the positive effects of Q-Pel are more than negative (as I have seen).

Originally posted by Koepi

But thanks for your trust in us :P

I believe in free projects, believe me (as happen with LAME :cool:, that is "the edge" for MP3).
But I will wait a bit for XviD.
FREE is the CODEC, FREE is my opinion.

[Beave]

Can be a performance related problem?
I'm having a Athlon TB 1400 and don't think that playback performance is an issue here. It always appears at the same frames in the movies and lookes like the frozen frames we know from DIVX3.

By the way I only use b-frames with Divx5.01 and I'm happy with the results.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by unplugged
Can be a performance related problem?

I'm using DivX 5.01 and Ogg OGM + Vorbis, on my Athlon XP 2100+ I don't see any glitch.

Must to say that in other non-poor machines I have seen some random stuttering, this seem to appear since latest OggDS filters...... ?


It could possibly be a machine specific problem. But it is also possible to be a software problem. More likely in this case than a hardware problem. If I understood the original post right that is. Bframes be damned the OGG DSF could handle the 5.0 B frame implimentation just fine. But if I am not mistaken there have been some things changed for 5.01. And that might be the fly in the ointment. I will get a copy of 5.01 here and try it for myself. Anyone else who has it and has done it that could give some good yes or no insight would also be helpfull.

Originally posted by unplugged
P.S.: Why preferring XviD instead of DivX5 so strongly?
I know XviD is free, but I have made more blind test and at same bitrate I must say that DivX5 has more and more *detail*.
One thing that don't like much is B-frame, almost how it is implemented in DivX5.
50% of B-Frames has too blocky detail.

B-Frame is not yet perfect in DivX5.

As you mentioned Xvid is free. But there are other factors. I just love the built in 2-pass code. I say make the video this size and it does. No fiddling around with a bitrate calc to figure out the correct nominal bitrate only to find that Divx over or under allocated. Also you can use existing Nandub stats files and tools. Someone say Gordian Knot? Individual I, P, and soon to come B frame quantizer settings are awesome as well. Divx 4 and 5 only gives you one quantizer controll set. Depending on the rez of the video I love to tweak the quantizers. I still make some 320x240 videos mostly for my dreamcast or to share over the net. Quantizers of 1-31 are way to much. I set I frame quantizers to 1-6 and the P frame quantizers to 1-12 and the resulting video comes out super sharp slick and with minimal quantization errors! Divx3, 4, or 5 has not been able to do this well this easily for me. Also the alt-curve compression is very usefull as well. Not to mention that you can turn CPU optimisations on or off and it is less buggy acrost systems than Divx has been historically. They have done in Xvid what should have been done in Divx. I have come to love Xvid's features so much that I can hardly force my self to play with Divx lately. The features that have been added to Divx lately are buggy or just not that usefull. I do not bash Divx because they are a company or because of their actions. Actually I don't bash it period. I just live the Xvid features. I use them EVERY DAY!

[MaTTeR]

Well said Neo:D I share your same thoughts. (Not that you didnt know that;) )

[alamatula]

Hello
I have that same problem with Divx5.01 and Ogg container. I've encoded to divx5pro (b-frames, GMC) and the avi if perfect, but when i mux it to get an Ogg Container there are some frames that turn bad:(. I've done some tests so far and when i select 'Source Interlace' to "All frames are interlaced" instead of "All frames are progressive" i get less bad frames but still a few:(. I've noted that changing 250 keyframe interval to 90 will get even less bad frames but still geting some:(.
Would be cool if someone could solve this.
Guess i gotta try out Xvid as u say it is so good but Divx501 was getting me a really good picture as i never got before with nothing else:).

Thx for helping out.

[zulu]

uuhmm...since i encountered the same problem yesterday, i'd like to know if there is any solution/fix to this ogg/divx5 issue yet.
doe's anybody pay attention to it?

[Rasi]

hmm... i am using the same gfx card driver, but have updated to windows XP now, and the frozen frames are gone... still using xvid :)

[Didée]

Hi folks,

my first post here ... introducing though may come another time.
(And btw this is no n00b talking ;) )

Originally posted by MaTTeR


Or use Xvid and still enjoy the quality of OGM;)

Alas, I have to say that I experienced this once in a while, too - with XviD encodes! (17-04, if I remember right)
The funny thing is, the error was not 100% reproducable: Closing the *.ogm and re-opening it showed the same error most times, but not everytime!
Lately, I was busy building my new rig and did only very few encodes, so I don´t dare to say either the problem is still there nor it is gone ...

But I definetly have seen this error with XviD encodes, so it is not only a divx5-issue.
(However, I can´t say too much about divx5 - stopped using that thing two days after it appeared, and am a *proud* XviD user since then ;) )

To complete, that all was drawn by an ATI 8500DV, which _always_ has the very newest PlutoniumXP-drivers running.

Greetings

Didée

[alamatula]

Yeah a solution to this problem would be great.
I'm using a Asus GeForce3 ti200 with Nvidia Drivers v23.11.

Tryed alot of diferent configuration and still got a few bad frames

Here is a sample of the bug...Avi file not yet muxed into Ogg Container (http://clientes.netvisao.pt/julgomes/Media/AviSample.avi) and file muxeg into Ogg Container (http://clientes.netvisao.pt/julgomes/Media/OggSample.ogm)

Note: it was encoded with Divx5.01 2 pass-encoding 750kbps (b-frames and GMC ON, Psychovisual at strong, preprocessing source at light, 250 max Key frame interval)

[Neo Neko]

I am using the latest versions of things now including Divx 5.0.1 Pro. And there are indeed a few glitches. It does not do this with Divx 5.0 PRO. But whenever I use B frames and then mux to an OGG file I get zero bad frames. The video begins to play and then abruptly crashes at the first B frame. Maybey there are some bad frapes, but I never get that far. I would still rather use Xvid. But for completeness sake this definatly needs to be looked at. :(

[HeLLRaZoR]

I am having the same problem as you guys. When the video is viewed alone it's fine. When I mux in the ogg audio i get the bad frames at exactly the same spot no matter what i do. I tried OggMux, graphedit, combineaviogg...still the same glitches. I decided to try and mux it with MP3 audio instead and the problem goes away. I think it's a problem with the Ogg Direct Show Filters. Anyone else have the same conclusion?

[geoffwa]

Aieee!

I've run into this problem too. Definitely an OGM problem, since my source AVIs are fine. If someone got Oggcut working I could even post an example.

Does OggMux try to match the length of the video/audio streams during muxing? All of the streams I've been encoding have had silence added at the start (courtesy of BeSweet).

[facts]

Disabling the ffdshow filter stopped the crashes for me. :)

[zulu]

Disabling the ffdshow filter stopped the crashes for me.

do you mean you get rid of the broken frames?

[alamatula]

Still got the bad frames:(

[NetZwerg]

This certainly seems to be a playback problem only ->

a) demuxing the movie and playing it without sound (or remuxed in avi format) solves the problem

b) same file plays back broken on one pc and ok on another (tested on two win2000 pcs with divx501)

[Beave]

Any word from Tobias? Is he onto this problem, does anybody know?

Some question about XVID:
Is it possible to do CompTests? If yes, how and what % is ok? I want to try this Codec out sometime.
With DivX I usually do a Compressability Test before encoding and the results are great! I don't want to analize a movie between the two passes, adjust any curves/quantizers or what so ever. I want to trust the codec, that it has done a good job by itself. Can you use the playbackfilter of DivX 5?

[facts]

quote:
Disabling the ffdshow filter stopped the crashes for me.

do you mean you get rid of the broken frames?

no, my players were actually crashing upon opening the video.

[PeterTheMaster]

i use divx502, same thing. avi file looks good, as soon as muxed it has these broken frames. i cannot provide a screenshot since i am to dumb for it. when i press print and then paste in paint, the wmp window in the picture shows only blackness although the real one has the broken frame...
this happens on my laptop with an integrated sis 630 graphics chip and on my geforce 2 computer. both win2k. encoded using latest avisynth and virtualdub, muxed with latest oggmux. in the same file the glitches always appear in the same place (frame). they always seem to be only one frame long. (hard to catch with space bar, its getting time that vdub supports it.)

another observation i made: when the smooth playback option of the divx502 playback filter is used i thought the effect was gone but instead it just looks different. (i could play the OggSample.ogm from this thread with this option checked, maybe since it has no sound. when this option is used with an ogm file with sound, the picture is black.)

the blocks seem to be no random crap but other parts of the same or previous or next frame. i saw the left ear of a person 3 times in a picture. is it important to find out where exactly they come from? then one should make frames that look likes coordinate systems with different background color.

[Belgabor]

Originally posted by PeterTheMaster
i use divx502, same thing. avi file looks good, as soon as muxed it has these broken frames. i cannot provide a screenshot since i am to dumb for it. when i press print and then paste in paint, the wmp window in the picture shows only blackness although the real one has the broken frame...


Try wrinting a small avisynth script that opens the file (perhaps with directshowsource) and do the framecap with vdub.

Regards
Belgabor

[kilg0r3]

@PeterTheMaster

try disabling hardware accelaration or using virtual dub 1.4.9 (1.4.10 does not work for me) File/Print Image Sequence. Make sure you have a very small selection or you will get bounch of thousands of bitmap files.

[nah]

Hello,

Ok, I've notice also these bad frame when muxing into OGM (I only encode with DivX 5.02).
I've installed the last ffdshow filter and it seems OK.
No bad frames anymore (at least in my video).

[PeterTheMaster]

right, with ffdshow doesnt show these glitches, so i think we can at least be sure that they are not coded into the .ogm file but a problem of the divx502 playback filter like that bright bar was...

but ffdshow has another problem: as soon as i use gamma correction it crashes when i open an .ogm file.
and i always brighten up divx files because the dvds or mpgs they come from are always to dark.
so i will live with the few glitches and hope divx503 playback filter fixes them.

[alamatula]

WEll when i activate the ffdshow to filter Divx5 i can't watch any video in Ogg Container cause it always crash when i deactivate ffdshow for divx5 it doesn't crash but still got those glitches. Peter u talked about gamma correction but when do i deactivate that?
All my other videos in Divx5 that are not using Ogg Container play fine with ffdshow.....

[PeterTheMaster]

the ffdshow i had before even crashed without gamma correction, maybe you have to have the latest version.
btw: why is ffdshow not on the doom9 download page?

[alamatula]

I've downloaded from FFDSHOW page (http://cutka.szm.sk/xvid/xvid.html) and it's the latest version maybe u have some older one. BTW if ffdshow can correct those glitches in Ogg Container Divx5 shouldn't be that hard to use those implementations from it in OggDShow filter....I guess :)

[PeterTheMaster]

the latest one on your page is 020418, mine is ffdshow-20020521.exe

for me it looks like some trivial error like the bright bar was, if they get to know about the problem im sure it wont be there in the next version.

[alamatula]

I've seached around and can't find that version:(, shouldn't it be in the official ffdshow page? were can i get that one?

THX

[kilg0r3]

http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/ffdshow/

[alamatula]

Yeah the glitches are gone but the video quality decresed and sometimes the picture drags...

[geoffwa]

Unfortunately AFAIK, there's no fix for this issue yet.

Just go back to AVI/MP3, and twiddle your thumbs for a while.

[mtrooper]

is it just me or are those broken frames resolution dependant? For now I've only seen them in 4:3 PAL DVD rips (Farscape) at res 640x480. And even that only on Farscape rips. perhaps there was 1 bad frame in Harry Potter, but I'm not sure.
ffdshow does work, but hell, that's not ideal solution... 'Cmon, Divx Networks, I wanna working decoder :)

@geoffwa: There's no way I'm going back to avi/mp3...It's just too nice to have faaast seeking&chapters in file itself (for subs I still use VobSub, it's still the best...). Especially after I've written my own muxing util :). And ogm itself is not broken - it's (in my opinion) divx 5.02 decoder.

[geoffwa]

Yes I like OGG/OGM/whathaveyou too.

It's not resolution dependant as far as I can tell. I've worked with 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 and it crops up there too.

It's not Divx Network's fault as far as I can tell (although B-frames seem to create a lot of problems).

[PeterTheMaster]

how can it not be divx networks problem if its ok with ffdshow?
and it is not resolution dependant (or maybe it doesnt happen at a resolution i never used)

[theduke]

Couldn't it be the OggDS filter ?

[PeterTheMaster]

because ffdshow replaces the divx filter, not the ogg filter.
well, on the other hand, the divx filter works with avis...
it could be a problem of how the filters interact. i dont know enough about filters to say this.

[alky]

well, have that "effect" too

athlon xp 1600+, 512mb ram.. i guess the box is good enough to play ogms :)
geforce 4 mx 460 with latest detonator

errors go away with this: ffdshow-20020617.exe (318kb sized) downloaded from doom9 lately.
the version from there http://cutka.szm.sk/xvid/xvid.html#download crashes using ogms.

it is a decoding problem, i would say stay with ogm and divx5 or xvid, burn your rips maybe there will be a better solution for playback, but the data is fine.

[1nut1l]

Hi, I have the same issue with "Hollow Man".
It does not matter if I use XviD or ffdshow. It always happens with the same frames.
I tried with uManiac's and Koepi's builds (XviD-30062002-1, uManiacs 26.6.2002-15:20)with and without ffdshow-20020617.exe. Same thing with W98SE and W2K (DirectX8.1 installed in both).
I was able to take some frames disabling hardware aceleration, see attachment. I had only oggDs and uManiac's XviD Build installed when I took them.
I have also included one "good" frame just to show how the "Hollow man" finishes after being burnt by Elisabeth Shue. He does not look much better than in the broken frames, does he?:p

BTW, hello to everybody, this is my very first post in doom9's forum. I hope not to have broken any rule but please, excuse me if so.
Really amazing work guys!:eek:

[edit: some days later...]
Just FYI:
- The avi was encoded with uManiacs 26.6,2002-15:20 and it is Ok (fortunately I did not removed it)
- The .ogm file includes two ogg audio streams, subtitles and chapter info.
- oggMux was used to get the .ogm.
- I tried this .ogm file in two completely different machines:
1) gigabyte MB/AMD xp1700+/3D prophet 4500/256DDR and
2) DFI MB/Celeron1.0Ghz/GeForce2/256SDR
The broken frames are there for both. I tried the ogm from hard disk and from CD, with W98SE and W2K: the same thing happens.

Doesn't it look like the problem has to do with the .ogm file itself?

Finally, re-muxing the same avi,ogg audio streams, subtitles and chapter info again and the new ogm file is Ok, NO broken frames any more :confused:

I think that I will archive the corrupted .ogm as a souvenir

:)

[Pendra]

There are some news about this problem?

I confirm that using ffdshow everithing is ok!!!

[1nut1l]

I have tried ffdshow and I still get the same broken frames when playing the "corrupted" ogm file.

Maybe I am doing something wrong. Is it enough to "un-check" the "decode using XviD" option in ffdshow to ensure that ffdshow is decoding the video?

What I would like to know is, if anyone is able to tell, from the pictures I attached before, if it is the same problem that everyone is talking about in this thread. I know that the quality of the pictures sucks but it is the best I can get disabling hardware acceleration.
I am asking this because the most of the posts are about Divx and only very few of them about XviD.

Anyway, never mind how many times I re-mux the same source avi, ogg and subtitle streams, I can not get a corrupted ogm again :confused:

[Pendra]

Hi 1nut1l
I analyze the picture and i had the same, but after installing ffdshow i have to say that everything was ok.
The quality is not the same of divx filter but.....

In attach file you can see configuration of ffdshow.
If you want to see the filters you are usinfg execute mplayer2 and than look for properties.

[1nut1l]

Hi Pendra,

Thanks for your advise. I have exactly the ffdshow setup that you attached (I have even removed xvid to test it), but the broken frames are still there. At same places in the movie.

Sorry for taking so long to answer.

[Pendra]

Hi 1nut1l

have you checked with mplayer2 which filters is in use during play?

[1nut1l]

I just discovered it last night :D

Hi again Pendra and all!

Filters used by mplayer2:

Default DirectSound Device
ffdshow MPEG-4 Video Decoder
Ogg Splitter
Subtitle Mixer
Video Renderer
Vorbis Decoder

But I have something better for you, just try the links.
:p

Cheers

brokenFrame1 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/41c33940/bc/cosas/broken1.ogm?bci8SU9A1NRKBVg0)
brokenFrames2 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/41c33940/bc/cosas/broken2.ogm?bci8SU9AK0ZK0W5M)

[Pendra]

Somenthing really strange 1nut1l i can not play your file,I will try at home.

bye

[1nut1l]

:confused:
I have just downloaded them and they played "fine" in NT and W2K. I think that you only need OggDS, SubTitDS and ffdshow, don't you?
Well, in w98 SubTitDS does not work, I think.

Cheers!

[Pendra]

Everithing ok 1nut1l just played your files.
What I see is that the problem is not broken frames after muxing with ogg audio, but bad encoded movie.
I am sure that you can see the bad frames in the original avi without audio.
The problem that ffdshow solve in ogm are the jitter present in some frames.

Bye

[1nut1l]

Hi Pendra,
As I wrote in some posts above, the avi was ok.
In fact, when I posted the first time in this thread I still had the avi file.
I muxed it again with the same audio ogg and subtitle streams and the muxed file was ok this time.
That's why I was so confused.
:confused:
Anyway, I just wanted to share this weird thing. It was not a problem for me since re-muxing the same files made the broken frames go away.

Cheers

[Kompressor]

Hello peeps!

I am experiencing this problem of broken frames on my very first movie muxing in OGG/OGM. Upon reading the entire thread over several times as well as a few other minor threads, I've done some tests in attempt to narrow down the possible causes for this problem.

In my case, my film is "Assault on Precinct 13", PAL 25fps Widescreen 16:9. I havent had time to review the entire length of the movie, but the problem frame appeared to be just before a cut-away scene (if that's of any significance at all). The 'broken' frames I'm describing resemble large square blocks, tearing the frame apart. It looks alike to the frame samples that 1nut1l has posted for sample.

To begin with, my hardware specs are as follows:
Leadtek GeForce 2 GTS
Abit BH-6 Motherboard
Celeron 900mhz
512mb ram

Software config:
DivX Pro 5.02
ffdshow-20021014
OggDS0995
audio filters (from doom9 download page)
Zoom Player 2.80
Windows Media Player 9 (tested on both players)

All my encoding was done via GKnot w/o audio processing (done afterwards in Nandub). Only B-frames was enabled. Resizing set to Bicubic neutral, no noise reduction, no psychovisual enhancements, just straight to encode.

I muxed with combinations of:
avi (no audio, ac3 trk removed with Nandub) -> ogm
avi (ac3 audio already muxed with Nandub) -> ogm
avi + ac3 (separated by Nandub, w/ WAV header removed using BeSplit) -> ogm (using OGMuxer)
avi + ac3 (separated by Nandub, WAV header intact) -> ogm (using OGGMux)

In all cases, the glitch on the same spot remains.

Note that the original movie in avi+ac3 -> avi mux, playes perfectly without glitch or broken frame in that range of frames.

I was lucky to have the problem solved simply by installing the latest ffdshow-20021014-se.exe (https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761) filter. As soon as I switch off 'divx5' support in ffdshow config, the glitches would return. So for my case it does *appear* to be a playback problem, however ONLY confined to ogm contained videos... so perhaps the OggDS filter plays a part as well? Or as one person mentioned the way OggDS "interacts" with the divx5 decoding filters. (but HOW? Would really be beyond my imagination.. :p )

Perhaps creaters for the filters involved would have better deductions as to at what level of the filtering/decoding the problem may be caused at.

Any newer experiments or inputs from you guys in the thread?


Kompressor

[PeterTheMaster]

i havent done any conversions for a long time. that ffdshow doesnt show these artefacts is known. but i dont like ffdshow. i just live with the frames until a better playback filter is available.

[TobiasWaldvogel]

The DivX guys seem to use a special trick to mark B-Frame because there is no "regular" way to indicate this in an AVI. Until now I didn't had the time to investigate how this is done and to be honest, the last time I used DivX is more than half a year ago. I prefer XVid. Anyway I will try to get a solution for the DivX users. If anyone has detailed information how the DivX guys mark the B-Frames let me know and I will fix it in the weeks. (Probably there is already information on this forum but I didn't had the time for searching as this had low priority in my development)

Kind regards,
Tobias

[alky]

this thread needs to be somewhere on top i would suggest...

[Demone]

Anyone has some information about the workaround state of this problem ? Its very annoying being not able to use dx5+ogm+xcd for this little prob.
Hope that will be solved asap :rolleyes:

I think this thread needs to be surely on top!!!

[raistlin2k]

Another ping!

As I already wrote in another post (about OggDS bugs), I have really corrupt frames halting the playback.
I'll try to see if de-&remuxing changes anything.

Thanks
Raist

[crusty]

Just my two cents on this topic....

I've had the broken frames too, I used only DivX 5.02 Pro and 1 Ogg track.

I Never had this problem before when I used OggMux 0.8.5, But with the newer versions I have.

I just encoded Mad Max 2 and muxed it with OggMux 0.8.5 and I just watched the entire movie.....zero artifacts.

My advice is.. try the older version off OggMux and see if this problem goes away...it did with me. Please post your results in this thread, that's what it's here for.

I greatly prefer OGM for 1 CD rips because of the smaller audio size at comparable quality.

/Slighty off-topic but mentioned in this thread:
I have seen excellent Xvid-rips but I find the documentation about the expert features seriously lacking. Divx makes much better rips out-of-the-box. I just tried encoding Mad Max 2 in Xvid, but gave up after about 20 encodes with different settings.
Sure there a lot of tweaks, and the documentation says alt-curve-this and payback-with-bias-that, but as long as there isn't proper documentation as to the effect of a certain setting to the general quality of the entire movie AND the specific effect on certain type of movie content, Xvid will remain expert-only.
For instance, Mad Max 2 has a lot of fast-motion scenes with lots of dust blowing and only a very small amount of dark scenes.
The settings for this type of movie would be completely different than for a low-motion, overall dark movie like Dark City. And we all know by now dark movies compress very well.
So as long as the Xvid documentation doesn't properly describe the effects of settings to a specific scene type, I'm sticking with DivX Pro.

I'm not trying to step on somebody's toes here, or trying to put some gasoline on a DivX-Xvid flamewar, I'm just saying the documentation on Xvid is seriously lacking. I'm willing to write the documentation, if somebody just explained the effects of settings to me.
/end off-topic.