broken frames when muxing OGMs

[alamatula]

I've seached around and can't find that version:(, shouldn't it be in the official ffdshow page? were can i get that one?

THX

[kilg0r3]

http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/ffdshow/

[alamatula]

Yeah the glitches are gone but the video quality decresed and sometimes the picture drags...

[geoffwa]

Unfortunately AFAIK, there's no fix for this issue yet.

Just go back to AVI/MP3, and twiddle your thumbs for a while.

[mtrooper]

is it just me or are those broken frames resolution dependant? For now I've only seen them in 4:3 PAL DVD rips (Farscape) at res 640x480. And even that only on Farscape rips. perhaps there was 1 bad frame in Harry Potter, but I'm not sure.
ffdshow does work, but hell, that's not ideal solution... 'Cmon, Divx Networks, I wanna working decoder :)

@geoffwa: There's no way I'm going back to avi/mp3...It's just too nice to have faaast seeking&chapters in file itself (for subs I still use VobSub, it's still the best...). Especially after I've written my own muxing util :). And ogm itself is not broken - it's (in my opinion) divx 5.02 decoder.

[geoffwa]

Yes I like OGG/OGM/whathaveyou too.

It's not resolution dependant as far as I can tell. I've worked with 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 and it crops up there too.

It's not Divx Network's fault as far as I can tell (although B-frames seem to create a lot of problems).

[PeterTheMaster]

how can it not be divx networks problem if its ok with ffdshow?
and it is not resolution dependant (or maybe it doesnt happen at a resolution i never used)

[theduke]

Couldn't it be the OggDS filter ?

[PeterTheMaster]

because ffdshow replaces the divx filter, not the ogg filter.
well, on the other hand, the divx filter works with avis...
it could be a problem of how the filters interact. i dont know enough about filters to say this.

[alky]

well, have that "effect" too

athlon xp 1600+, 512mb ram.. i guess the box is good enough to play ogms :)
geforce 4 mx 460 with latest detonator

errors go away with this: ffdshow-20020617.exe (318kb sized) downloaded from doom9 lately.
the version from there http://cutka.szm.sk/xvid/xvid.html#download crashes using ogms.

it is a decoding problem, i would say stay with ogm and divx5 or xvid, burn your rips maybe there will be a better solution for playback, but the data is fine.

[1nut1l]

Hi, I have the same issue with "Hollow Man".
It does not matter if I use XviD or ffdshow. It always happens with the same frames.
I tried with uManiac's and Koepi's builds (XviD-30062002-1, uManiacs 26.6.2002-15:20)with and without ffdshow-20020617.exe. Same thing with W98SE and W2K (DirectX8.1 installed in both).
I was able to take some frames disabling hardware aceleration, see attachment. I had only oggDs and uManiac's XviD Build installed when I took them.
I have also included one "good" frame just to show how the "Hollow man" finishes after being burnt by Elisabeth Shue. He does not look much better than in the broken frames, does he?:p

BTW, hello to everybody, this is my very first post in doom9's forum. I hope not to have broken any rule but please, excuse me if so.
Really amazing work guys!:eek:

[edit: some days later...]
Just FYI:
- The avi was encoded with uManiacs 26.6,2002-15:20 and it is Ok (fortunately I did not removed it)
- The .ogm file includes two ogg audio streams, subtitles and chapter info.
- oggMux was used to get the .ogm.
- I tried this .ogm file in two completely different machines:
1) gigabyte MB/AMD xp1700+/3D prophet 4500/256DDR and
2) DFI MB/Celeron1.0Ghz/GeForce2/256SDR
The broken frames are there for both. I tried the ogm from hard disk and from CD, with W98SE and W2K: the same thing happens.

Doesn't it look like the problem has to do with the .ogm file itself?

Finally, re-muxing the same avi,ogg audio streams, subtitles and chapter info again and the new ogm file is Ok, NO broken frames any more :confused:

I think that I will archive the corrupted .ogm as a souvenir

:)

[Pendra]

There are some news about this problem?

I confirm that using ffdshow everithing is ok!!!

[1nut1l]

I have tried ffdshow and I still get the same broken frames when playing the "corrupted" ogm file.

Maybe I am doing something wrong. Is it enough to "un-check" the "decode using XviD" option in ffdshow to ensure that ffdshow is decoding the video?

What I would like to know is, if anyone is able to tell, from the pictures I attached before, if it is the same problem that everyone is talking about in this thread. I know that the quality of the pictures sucks but it is the best I can get disabling hardware acceleration.
I am asking this because the most of the posts are about Divx and only very few of them about XviD.

Anyway, never mind how many times I re-mux the same source avi, ogg and subtitle streams, I can not get a corrupted ogm again :confused:

[Pendra]

Hi 1nut1l
I analyze the picture and i had the same, but after installing ffdshow i have to say that everything was ok.
The quality is not the same of divx filter but.....

In attach file you can see configuration of ffdshow.
If you want to see the filters you are usinfg execute mplayer2 and than look for properties.

[1nut1l]

Hi Pendra,

Thanks for your advise. I have exactly the ffdshow setup that you attached (I have even removed xvid to test it), but the broken frames are still there. At same places in the movie.

Sorry for taking so long to answer.

[Pendra]

Hi 1nut1l

have you checked with mplayer2 which filters is in use during play?

[1nut1l]

I just discovered it last night :D

Hi again Pendra and all!

Filters used by mplayer2:

Default DirectSound Device
ffdshow MPEG-4 Video Decoder
Ogg Splitter
Subtitle Mixer
Video Renderer
Vorbis Decoder

But I have something better for you, just try the links.
:p

Cheers

brokenFrame1 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/41c33940/bc/cosas/broken1.ogm?bci8SU9A1NRKBVg0)
brokenFrames2 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/41c33940/bc/cosas/broken2.ogm?bci8SU9AK0ZK0W5M)

[Pendra]

Somenthing really strange 1nut1l i can not play your file,I will try at home.

bye

[1nut1l]

:confused:
I have just downloaded them and they played "fine" in NT and W2K. I think that you only need OggDS, SubTitDS and ffdshow, don't you?
Well, in w98 SubTitDS does not work, I think.

Cheers!

[Pendra]

Everithing ok 1nut1l just played your files.
What I see is that the problem is not broken frames after muxing with ogg audio, but bad encoded movie.
I am sure that you can see the bad frames in the original avi without audio.
The problem that ffdshow solve in ogm are the jitter present in some frames.

Bye

[1nut1l]

Hi Pendra,
As I wrote in some posts above, the avi was ok.
In fact, when I posted the first time in this thread I still had the avi file.
I muxed it again with the same audio ogg and subtitle streams and the muxed file was ok this time.
That's why I was so confused.
:confused:
Anyway, I just wanted to share this weird thing. It was not a problem for me since re-muxing the same files made the broken frames go away.

Cheers

[Kompressor]

Hello peeps!

I am experiencing this problem of broken frames on my very first movie muxing in OGG/OGM. Upon reading the entire thread over several times as well as a few other minor threads, I've done some tests in attempt to narrow down the possible causes for this problem.

In my case, my film is "Assault on Precinct 13", PAL 25fps Widescreen 16:9. I havent had time to review the entire length of the movie, but the problem frame appeared to be just before a cut-away scene (if that's of any significance at all). The 'broken' frames I'm describing resemble large square blocks, tearing the frame apart. It looks alike to the frame samples that 1nut1l has posted for sample.

To begin with, my hardware specs are as follows:
Leadtek GeForce 2 GTS
Abit BH-6 Motherboard
Celeron 900mhz
512mb ram

Software config:
DivX Pro 5.02
ffdshow-20021014
OggDS0995
audio filters (from doom9 download page)
Zoom Player 2.80
Windows Media Player 9 (tested on both players)

All my encoding was done via GKnot w/o audio processing (done afterwards in Nandub). Only B-frames was enabled. Resizing set to Bicubic neutral, no noise reduction, no psychovisual enhancements, just straight to encode.

I muxed with combinations of:
avi (no audio, ac3 trk removed with Nandub) -> ogm
avi (ac3 audio already muxed with Nandub) -> ogm
avi + ac3 (separated by Nandub, w/ WAV header removed using BeSplit) -> ogm (using OGMuxer)
avi + ac3 (separated by Nandub, WAV header intact) -> ogm (using OGGMux)

In all cases, the glitch on the same spot remains.

Note that the original movie in avi+ac3 -> avi mux, playes perfectly without glitch or broken frame in that range of frames.

I was lucky to have the problem solved simply by installing the latest ffdshow-20021014-se.exe (https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761) filter. As soon as I switch off 'divx5' support in ffdshow config, the glitches would return. So for my case it does *appear* to be a playback problem, however ONLY confined to ogm contained videos... so perhaps the OggDS filter plays a part as well? Or as one person mentioned the way OggDS "interacts" with the divx5 decoding filters. (but HOW? Would really be beyond my imagination.. :p )

Perhaps creaters for the filters involved would have better deductions as to at what level of the filtering/decoding the problem may be caused at.

Any newer experiments or inputs from you guys in the thread?


Kompressor

[PeterTheMaster]

i havent done any conversions for a long time. that ffdshow doesnt show these artefacts is known. but i dont like ffdshow. i just live with the frames until a better playback filter is available.

[TobiasWaldvogel]

The DivX guys seem to use a special trick to mark B-Frame because there is no "regular" way to indicate this in an AVI. Until now I didn't had the time to investigate how this is done and to be honest, the last time I used DivX is more than half a year ago. I prefer XVid. Anyway I will try to get a solution for the DivX users. If anyone has detailed information how the DivX guys mark the B-Frames let me know and I will fix it in the weeks. (Probably there is already information on this forum but I didn't had the time for searching as this had low priority in my development)

Kind regards,
Tobias

[alky]

this thread needs to be somewhere on top i would suggest...

[Demone]

Anyone has some information about the workaround state of this problem ? Its very annoying being not able to use dx5+ogm+xcd for this little prob.
Hope that will be solved asap :rolleyes:

I think this thread needs to be surely on top!!!

[raistlin2k]

Another ping!

As I already wrote in another post (about OggDS bugs), I have really corrupt frames halting the playback.
I'll try to see if de-&remuxing changes anything.

Thanks
Raist

[crusty]

Just my two cents on this topic....

I've had the broken frames too, I used only DivX 5.02 Pro and 1 Ogg track.

I Never had this problem before when I used OggMux 0.8.5, But with the newer versions I have.

I just encoded Mad Max 2 and muxed it with OggMux 0.8.5 and I just watched the entire movie.....zero artifacts.

My advice is.. try the older version off OggMux and see if this problem goes away...it did with me. Please post your results in this thread, that's what it's here for.

I greatly prefer OGM for 1 CD rips because of the smaller audio size at comparable quality.

/Slighty off-topic but mentioned in this thread:
I have seen excellent Xvid-rips but I find the documentation about the expert features seriously lacking. Divx makes much better rips out-of-the-box. I just tried encoding Mad Max 2 in Xvid, but gave up after about 20 encodes with different settings.
Sure there a lot of tweaks, and the documentation says alt-curve-this and payback-with-bias-that, but as long as there isn't proper documentation as to the effect of a certain setting to the general quality of the entire movie AND the specific effect on certain type of movie content, Xvid will remain expert-only.
For instance, Mad Max 2 has a lot of fast-motion scenes with lots of dust blowing and only a very small amount of dark scenes.
The settings for this type of movie would be completely different than for a low-motion, overall dark movie like Dark City. And we all know by now dark movies compress very well.
So as long as the Xvid documentation doesn't properly describe the effects of settings to a specific scene type, I'm sticking with DivX Pro.

I'm not trying to step on somebody's toes here, or trying to put some gasoline on a DivX-Xvid flamewar, I'm just saying the documentation on Xvid is seriously lacking. I'm willing to write the documentation, if somebody just explained the effects of settings to me.
/end off-topic.