AV1 hardware decoder implementations

[quietvoid]

Weird. Latest system update installed and everything?

What model number Fire Stick?

Yea, however it's not consistently reproducible. I managed to do it after 10+ attempts just now.
Sometimes there's also a frame skip after pause. I use Kodi but it makes use of MediaCodec.

This is the 4K Max, OS is 7.2.9.2 (PS7292/2984).
I'm not sure what other model number there is, other than the serial number.

[ChaosKing]

Yea, however it's not consistently reproducible. I managed to do it after 10+ attempts just now.
Sometimes there's also a frame skip after pause. I use Kodi but it makes use of MediaCodec.

This is the 4K Max, OS is 7.2.9.2 (PS7292/2984).
I'm not sure what other model number there is, other than the serial number.

Dancing grain is gone with the latest Kodi 20 beta.

[quietvoid]

Dancing grain is gone with the latest Kodi 20 beta.

The build I have installed is from 2022-09-10 git, which was after the last tagged alpha.
So unless it was fixed in git in the last 10 days, it still happens even if rarely.

[benwaggoner]

Dancing grain is gone with the latest Kodi 20 beta.
Good to know!

But odd. Maybe Kodi was doing its own SW AV1 decode or something?

[hajj_3]

a new 'chromecast with google tv' has been released which uses the S805X2 chipset which can hardware decode av1. The chipset can only output 1080p not 4k, for all codecs not just AV1. Google's cast codec support page (https://developers.google.com/cast/docs/media) doesn't show this new model so not sure if AV1 decoding is enabled or not but the hardware should be capable of it.

[hajj_3]

Nvidia 4000 RTX series supports AV1 hardware encoding up to 8k60p: https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-rtx-4090-4080-will-soon-be-able-to-stream-av1-on-microsoft-edge-google-chrome/

[Yups]

Nvidia 4000 RTX series supports AV1 hardware encoding up to 8k60p: https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-rtx-4090-4080-will-soon-be-able-to-stream-av1-on-microsoft-edge-google-chrome/


8k60 is not perfect but they might improve it with newer drivers.



The 8K results have some surprises in store because the RTX 4090 which even has a dual AV1 engine drops as much as the Ampere card regarding P1. Something seems to be wrong with the driver. The AMD card even drops related to the average frame rates. The frame rate suffers from strong stuttering as the 1% percentile is barely more than one FPS.
https://www.capframex.com/tests/AV1%20Video%20Decoding%20Intel%20Arc%20A770

[benwaggoner]

Nvidia 4000 RTX series supports AV1 hardware encoding up to 8k60p: https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-rtx-4090-4080-will-soon-be-able-to-stream-av1-on-microsoft-edge-google-chrome/
Even if unfixed, that's unlikely to be a serious limitation in this time frame. The global media industry is pretty darn committed to 4Kp24 for scripted entertainment. 4K because costs go up rapidly with more pixels, and the visual benefit of >4K for scripted entertainment is far from demonstrated. Lots of big feature films still do most or all of their CGI effects at 2K. And the commitment to 24p for the "film look" is almost religious. And at 24p, the default shutter speed is 1/48th sec, so almost any motion of camera or content introduces enough motion blur to eliminate any theoretical extra detail 8K could offer.

Live sports is much more interested in high frame rates, so I expect 4Kp120 to be a much bigger deal than 8Kp60 over the next 5+ years.

[nevcairiel]

I would take "dual engines" more like "can work on two streams at the same time without performance loss", not necessarily "twice as fast on one stream", so I wouldn't automatically say its a clear bug, unless NVIDIA has specifically stated otherwise.

Also while of course relevant because its used on eg. YouTube, in my experience browsers are not the best choice to fully explore hardware capabilities.
Not sure if thats the test methodolgy (like not excluding the first second of startup glitches), but not even able to produce fully fluid 4K 60 fps is either a software or a testing failure, because a dedicated video player certainly can render 4k 60 fps without any frame drops.

[Yups]

I would take "dual engines" more like "can work on two streams at the same time without performance loss", not necessarily "twice as fast on one stream", so I wouldn't automatically say its a clear bug, unless NVIDIA has specifically stated otherwise.



Exactly, on my Arc A380 and also my Iris Xe only one of the two decoder is working in this video. The second decoder won't give extra performance on a single video, obviously same for RTX 4090.


https://abload.de/thumb/decodingxncc1.jpg (https://abload.de/image.php?img=decodingxncc1.jpg)

[Spyros]

This is the first Snapdragon chip to include support for AV1, a royalty-free video codec backed by a huge list of heavy-hitters like Amazon, Apple, Arm, Facebook, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix, Nvidia, and Samsung. Netflix and YouTube have gone all-in on AV1 by making support for the codec mandatory for hardware manufacturers seeking to license these services.

Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/the-snapdragon-8-gen-2-brings-wi-fi-7-sticks-with-some-32-bit-support/)


Qualcomm also finally enabled AV1 video decoding – streams up to 8K at 60fps (with HDR) are supported.

GSMArena (https://www.gsmarena.com/snapdragon_8_gen_2_unveiled_faster_more_efficient_has_ray_tracing_and_wifi_7-news-56532.php)


Finally!

[Gravitator]

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/gif-aplodismenti.gif

[Beelzebubu]

The interesting part is their "statement": https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-assets/documents/AOM-Statement.pdf

“Qualcomm is a leader in foundational video compression technology. For over 20 years, we
have invented technology widely used in video codecs implemented and used by devices and content
services. Our patent portfolio is used in multiple codecs and includes standard essential patents to
H.265/HEVC, H.266/VVC, and MPEG-5/EVC video coding standards, as well as the proprietary VP9 and
AV1 video codecs.
Regarding the Alliance for Open Media (AOM) Patent License 1.0, Qualcomm has not accepted the
unilateral terms asserted by AOM with respect to Qualcomm’s intellectual property and has notified
AOM of this position. Qualcomm reserves all its intellectual property rights, including with respect to
the use of any of Qualcomm’s patented technology to implement any AOM specification.”

[soresu]

Sounds like a coded excuse for being the near last to the party while promoting their own proprietary stuff that will never take off (aka EVC).

Also sounds like they are using this as a pretext to support the AV1 patent pool SisVel - how slimy of them.

[hajj_3]

Sounds like a coded excuse for being the near last to the party while promoting their own proprietary stuff that will never take off (aka EVC).

Also sounds like they are using this as a pretext to support the AV1 patent pool SisVel - how slimy of them.

They are not currently listed as a patent owner on the sisvel website. I wonder whether they will join sisvel and list their patents on there.

[benwaggoner]

Sounds like a coded excuse for being the near last to the party while promoting their own proprietary stuff that will never take off (aka EVC).
Are they (or anyone) actively promoting EVC? I haven't heard anything about any sorts of real-world EVC deployment plans all year.

EVC has an interesting model and promising elements, but no one seems to be promoting it for anything.

[tormento]

Microsoft Adds Direct3D 12 Powered AV1 Video Encoding To Mesa (https://www.phoronix.com/news/Microsoft-D3D12-AV1-Mesa)

[quietvoid]

Turns out that while Amazon fixed film grain synthesis on the FireTV Stick 4K Max, it still doesn't work in Dolby Vision mode.
So now SDR, HDR10 are fine but not AV1 Dolby Vision.

[Blue_MiSfit]

They're streaming AV1 Dolby Vision? Interesting! Ben, is that accurate? :)

[quietvoid]

They're streaming AV1 Dolby Vision? Interesting! Ben, is that accurate? :)

No one is streaming AV1 Dolby Vision just yet..
But the files can be made and they play in Dolby Vision on the devices I tested.

Just annoying that FGS isn't working. It works on my LG C2.

[benwaggoner]

No one is streaming AV1 Dolby Vision just yet..
But the files can be made and they play in Dolby Vision on the devices I tested.

Just annoying that FGS isn't working. It works on my LG C2.
AV1 without FGS really isn't that much better than HEVC Main10.

Dolby isn't really supporting AV1 (they've got control over a whole lot of VVC licensing), so trying to get end-to-end AV1 working for Profile 5 or something without Dolby's help would be some serious upstream swimming. The dynamic range adjusting Y'CtCp native encoding requires some encoder tuning for optimum results.

Doing a Profile 8.1 style HDR10-with-metadata would be a lot more straightforward, as no encoder work would be required, or even helpful.

[quietvoid]

AV1 without FGS really isn't that much better than HEVC Main10.
Hence why it's annoying that the feature isn't working on my FireTV Stick 4K Max.

It's a bit hard to believe that Dolby went through the effort to make it work on 2021+ devices but that they don't plan on supporting AV1.
It's probably bound to happen eventually, but maybe VVC is higher priority.

Guess time will tell.

[benwaggoner]

Hence why it's annoying that the feature isn't working on my FireTV Stick 4K Max.

It's a bit hard to believe that Dolby went through the effort to make it work on 2021+ devices but that they don't plan on supporting AV1.
It's probably bound to happen eventually, but maybe VVC is higher priority.
Dolby will make licensing revenue with VVC, and VVC is technically superior to AV1, so I can see lots of reasons they'd prefer to skip over AV1.

But we will see. IBC shall reveal much.

[hajj_3]

iphone 15 has an AV1 hardware decoder:

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/20051/383650156_575px.jpg

[birdie]

iphone 15 has an AV1 hardware decoder:



And weirdly no VVC decoder. Apple is one of the patent holders for it.

[benwaggoner]

And weirdly no VVC decoder. Apple is one of the patent holders for it.
VVC is still a lot newer. We'll see some living room devices with HW decoders this year, but I don't know about any mobile until 2024.

[Blue_MiSfit]

I was pleasantly surprised to see this! Too bad it's decode-only, but that's enough to dramatically move the landscape forward, especially considering they'll probably have to add a software decode fallback to all their devices

[ksec]

The interesting part is that Apple are following the same route as Qualcomm, in that AV1 will be decoding only.

Considering the A17 Pro Silicon design needs to be ready by mid 2022, And the hardware verification and testing kit for VVC were barely out so it shouldn't be surprising they dont come with it.

Next year, Apple will likely have a new updated A17 on a newer 3nm node with A18 on a newer 3nm as well. We could expect some Video Encoding and Decoding Engine update then.

[hajj_3]

The interesting part is that Apple are following the same route as Qualcomm, in that AV1 will be decoding only.

there's no point in AV1 encode. It won't be much better than the h265 encoder but will take up die space.

[Emulgator]

And such encoding will eat battery to an extent that mobile devices won't afford.

[ksec]

there's no point in AV1 encode. It won't be much better than the h265 encoder but will take up die space.

Well yes but I cant say that out loud since this is an AV1 section.

[birdie]

Google's Tensor G3 SoC is rumored to support AV1 encode at up to 4K at 30fps.

We'll find out soon enough.

[hajj_3]

Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K (2nd generation) was announced today, it supports AV1 decoding. It is out on October 18th in uk, not sure about other countries.

[quietvoid]

Dolby will make licensing revenue with VVC, and VVC is technically superior to AV1, so I can see lots of reasons they'd prefer to skip over AV1.
Dolby recently re-added AV1 profiles in their public spec, so it's not dead yet.

Also, I've received my new FireTV Stick 4K Max 2nd gen (2023) and it still has no FGS with AV1 in Dolby Vision mode.
Still works fine in HDR10.

[benwaggoner]

Dolby recently re-added AV1 profiles in their public spec, so it's not dead yet.

Also, I've received my new FireTV Stick 4K Max 2nd gen (2023) and it still has no FGS with AV1 in Dolby Vision mode.
Still works fine in HDR10.
DoVi Profile 5 takes a lot more compute/pixel than HDR-10; max fps has typically been half (still better than dual-layer). It wouldn't be entirely surprising if there wasn't enough GPU compute left for FGS.

Just speculation on my part; I have now direct knowledge. There haven't been AV1 DoVi test streams, so it just may have never been turned on in SoC OEM drivers. The default is to no turn on features you can't test, for obvious reasons.

[quietvoid]

Just speculation on my part; I have now direct knowledge. There haven't been AV1 DoVi test streams, so it just may have never been turned on in SoC OEM drivers. The default is to no turn on features you can't test, for obvious reasons.

I would assume it probably has more to do with missing AV1 Dolby Vision streams, but if vendors could implement it I assume they had access to some.
Or maybe just regular non-FGS streams, I don't know.

Anyways, it might take a while for it to be fixed since nobody is distributing it.

[ChaosKing]

Dolby recently re-added AV1 profiles in their public spec, so it's not dead yet.

Also, I've received my new FireTV Stick 4K Max 2nd gen (2023) and it still has no FGS with AV1 in Dolby Vision mode.
Still works fine in HDR10.

Film Grain Synthesis works in FireTV Max V1. I have tested this in Kodi with different video files.

[quietvoid]

Film Grain Synthesis works in FireTV Max V1. I have tested this in Kodi with different video files.

Yes, I know.
I'm talking specifically about AV1 Dolby Vision videos, FGS doesn't work with those only.

[ChaosKing]

Yes, I know.
I'm talking specifically about AV1 Dolby Vision videos, FGS doesn't work with those only.

Is there a video online which I could test?

[quietvoid]

Is there a video online which I could test?

Sure, here's one: https://0x0.st/HWpI.mp4

[ChaosKing]

Sure, here's one: https://0x0.st/HWpI.mp4

Thx. Indeed no grain. But it works with Chromecast 4K [the white stick](not 100% realtime playback)

[oibaf]

Apple M3 adds AV1 hardware decoder: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/10/apple-unveils-m3-m3-pro-and-m3-max-the-most-advanced-chips-for-a-personal-computer/

[oibaf]

Intel Core Ultra Meteor Lake officially launched, Intel's first processor family with AV1 hardware encoder.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/core-ultra-client-computing-news-1.html

Already posted at: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1995071#post1995071

[Spyros]

Apple introduces M4 chip (https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-introduces-m4-chip/)

Since all M3 variants were used only on Mac devices, the new chip "brings hardware acceleration for AV1 to iPad for the first time".

[hajj_3]

Google TV Streamer has been announced for $100, chromecast devices have been discontinued until existing stock has been sold.

https://blog.google/products/google-nest/google-tv-streamer/

It uses a 3yr old Mediatek MT8696 chip which supports AV1 decoding.

[hajj_3]

AMD RX 9000 series (RDNA 4) announced:

https://cdn.neowin.com/news/images/uploaded/2025/02/1740746920_4c963f90e26e481bbcd7dee38af4ed31wlsupms7lfcpuoy6-3.jpg

[Z2697]

And FFmpeg finally have "standalone" amf decoders and hwcontext, like cuvid and qsv have had for years.

[jfcarbel]

Wonder if RDNA3 like 7800 XT will get any benefits from the RDNA4 launch software. Perhaps making some improvements across both.

As 7800 XT owner I sure hope. I know its much faster on RDNA4 due to full AVX512, but hoping that PQ across both platforms benefit.

[Z2697]

GPUs have AVX512?

[jfcarbel]

GPUs have AVX512?

Now that you mention it I think I was thinking Zen 4 architecture, but don't see why a GPU could not support that instruction set.