General madvr HTPC questions

[NoTechi]

When madVR converts from Y'CbCr to RGB, the result is 32-bit floating point, so it can be dithered to any output bit depth, 8-bit or 10-bit. The key point is dithering is used, so it can be very difficult to tell the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit when watching anything.


Warner many thanks for taking your time answering my questions. This is the first time I start to understand why native HDR and HDR->SDR are so close when looking at the results. HDR->SDR in 10/12 bit dithered is like a pimped SDR when comparing to what I was thinking SDR is (8bit without dithering).

A follow up question comes to my mind then, wouldn't the result be even better staying with Y'CbCr in 10 or 12 bit without dithering? Is that what passthrough does?


NoTechi

[Asmodian]

madVR can only render to RGB so if you output YCbCr the GPU does a conversion, damaging madVR's output slightly. I believe this is a Windows limitation, the GPU always assumes RGB input and must do the conversion if you set its output to YCbCr.

[NoTechi]

madVR can only render to RGB so if you output YCbCr the GPU does a conversion, damaging madVR's output slightly. I believe this is a Windows limitation, the GPU always assumes RGB input and must do the conversion if you set its output to YCbCr.

Thanks Asmodian. It's really helpfull to understand at least the basic backgrounds to be able to adjust the complete setup on individual needs/preferences.

One thing I learned so far is that all the guides are really helpful and you will get a first very nice setup already. But if you want to get beyond that or want to adjust it to your needs you need to understand the basics first. Every system is different even though it seems to be kinda the same it is still different.
For example I tried 385.28 Driver again due to Mannis Report on the new Nvidia driver (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1843855#post1843855) but I come to a very different conclusion even though our system setup using an JVC projector is similiar. Like I can create custom res (at least with EDIT Settings) with 398.11 where I get way better results compared to 385.28 in regards to frame drops. So I decided to use the new Driver but for Manni the 385.28 works best and thats most likely due to similiar but still different hardware setups.

NoTechi

[Dorohedoro]

Edited.

[NoTechi]

Hey Doro I just wanted to test your settings but now you removed them 😱 But most likely they would not stick anyhow since any other custom mode next to EDID is resulting in a blue screen and I have to wait until they get reverted back. However with the new nvidia driver and custom mode EDID I get above 1 hour frame repeates which is k compared to the 4 minutes I get with older drivers.

NoTechi

[XMonarchY]

What are some recommended settings for someone with rig specs similar to mine for viewing HQ 4K content on 4K display? For 1080p, I pretty much I max it out as far as I know how based on what is "considered the best quality" settings, but I have no idea what they would be for 4K HQ content... Not sure if there is such a thing as LQ 4K content out there these days...

[Dorohedoro]

Hey Doro I just wanted to test your settings but now you removed them 😱 But most likely they would not stick anyhow since any other custom mode next to EDID is resulting in a blue screen and I have to wait until they get reverted back. However with the new nvidia driver and custom mode EDID I get above 1 hour frame repeates which is k compared to the 4 minutes I get with older drivers.

NoTechi

Sorry I had to change something on the pic, here are the values:

https://i.imgur.com/IZFtCl7.jpg

[NoTechi]

Doro I can apply and save those settings to my 23Hz mode within madvr. But when I look within the nvidia control a custom mode with 24Hz is created not one with 23Hz. So if I watch a movie now it still uses the not optimized 23Hz setting.


NoTechi

[Dorohedoro]

Ok, it's amazing that you can save too that custom res. (took me two days without any sleep to find that resolution). It seems that custom res. is valid for all jvc proyectors.

Ok try this. Make sure that you have my custom res. saved on madvr, after that set your desktop to 60hz or anything besides 23hz or 24hz. Now go to madvr settings and go to: https://wiki.jriver.com/images/0/0f/Refresh-rates1oj0c.png
and under "list all display modes..." put ONLY this value: 2160p23

Try that and let me know the result.

[Warner306]

Doro I can apply and save those settings to my 23Hz mode within madvr. But when I look within the nvidia control a custom mode with 24Hz is created not one with 23Hz. So if I watch a movie now it still uses the not optimized 23Hz setting.


NoTechi

My Nvidia custom resolution says it covers 23-25 Hz.

[Asmodian]

Doro I can apply and save those settings to my 23Hz mode within madvr. But when I look within the nvidia control a custom mode with 24Hz is created not one with 23Hz.

This is normal, it should still switch to that mode when madVR switches to "2160p23".

[NoTechi]

Ok, it's amazing that you can save too that custom res. (took me two days without any sleep to find that resolution). It seems that custom res. is valid for all jvc projectors.


I have been too quick. Even though I was able to test and save your mode it seems it is gone again after a reboot. My guess is thats the problem what others mentioned with the new nvidia driver. I am going to give it a new try coming days with older drivers.

@Asmodian
Is it also normal that when I check madvr and nvidia settings while playing a 23Hz movie that:
1. madvr shows that I am in the optimized 23Hz mode
2. when I check nividia it shows it is in 3840x2160 at 23Hz but not the one in custom modes is highlighted it is the one in standard Ultra-HD, HD, SD.


NoTechi

[Asmodian]

Yes, it is very strange but that matches my experiance. I was able to optimize the mode and madVR could switch to it using its automatic display mode changing.

[Dorohedoro]

I'm using the 3.88 nvidia drivers without any issues.

[NoTechi]

I am on 3.88 as well now and I was able to use your custom settings which are now also active after a reboot. They are working well :)

Now when watching a movie the nvidia control also shows that the custom mode (24Hz) is used.

Downside is that i can't activate 12bit with 24hz only 8bit. So I have to decide if I want to be stuck with 8bit at 24Hz but with a custom mode which brings a frame drop every few hours or using 12bit at 23Hz with a frame drop roughly each hour.


NoTechi

[arcspin]

Hi,
I have reinstalled NVIDIA driver 385.28 (385.28-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql) using DDU in safe mode.
Everything went well and the driver is installed ok and in Nvidia control panel the resolution is 3840x2160

Here is my question, when I watch a movie, MadVr reports scaling that was not there before.
Everything (both 1920x1080 and 3840x2160) is now scaled to 3072x1728.

This doesn’t seem right to me and before it was drawn to 3840x2160.

Can someone please help me understand why MadVR scales everything to 3072x1728?
MadVr also adds additional image scaling ( < SSim1D100 LL AR) that wasn’t there before.


I attach a screenshot from how it looked before and a screenshot how it looks now in MadVR. I also attach a screenshot from my custom scaling in MadVR. I haven’t made any changes to that but it might still need some corrections.

MadVr before:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UwBVsa83e6igVjGV7


MadVR after:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FsM2wSpGieZQi3aH6


MadVR Custom scaling:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NxbBpzZ5AtWKCtWc6




Best regards,

//Peter

[huhn]

what windows version and player are you using?

[arcspin]

Its Windows 10, latest version (1803 i think that is)
My player is JRiver 24 with latest MadVR 0.92 14 and JVC X5500.

[nevcairiel]

This usually happens if you use mixed DPI on your desktop, ie. multiple screens with different DPI settings, which causes Windows to generate a "virtual" DPI that applies to all screens.
Or you changed one too many DPI settings somewhere.

[arcspin]

Hmmm, I have two 3840x2160 screens, one JVC X5500 projector and one regular 4K screen. And both have the resolution 3840x2160.
There is no degradation with the picture quality as I can see anyway on the JVC, it is just that there are different MadVR information, before and after I made the clean driver switch.


3840x2160 and 3072x1728 have the same aspect ration of 1:1.78 but the 3072x1728 are 6.31 megapixel and the 3840x2160 8.29 megapixel

https://toolstud.io/photo/aspect.php?width=3072&height=1728
https://toolstud.io/photo/aspect.php?width=3840&height=2160


I wonder if the black bars are included in the calculation after the clean install and maybe that could be why there are different information?
The 3072x1728 maybe the resolution without black bars and only the picture.

[nevcairiel]

Check in the Windows settings if both are set to the same DPI, or even better, ensure to do that. When both are the same resolution, it should be fine to do that without too much difference.

[arcspin]

hehe, yeah.
I found the culprit as you suggested.

I changed the scale and layout in Win 10 display settings to 100% for the JVC projector (it was set to 125%) and that took care of the scaling in MadVR.
It is now scaling to 3840x2160 as before.

(I still have the scaling set to 125% for my regular 4k PC-screen without any problem)


Great advice and thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction, much appreciated.



Update,
I did a reboot and got a wrong scaling in MadVR again, changed back to 125% for the JVC (both the PC-screen and the JVC are back to 125%) and now it is back as it was before with MadVR scaling to 3840x2160.
Weird, I have to keep this in mind if the scaling are starting to act up in the future.

[nevcairiel]

Its fine if its not 100%, it should just match on all screens. Not sure why it acted up first, maybe it got confused and needed resetting.