Finally, an IfoEdit/CCE working method

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph, it your friendly neighborhood PITA again, i was just wondering when i am setting the chapter/cells in scenarist, i set the time in the top on the top left, and then click new scene, but how do I tell Scenarist whether it is a chpater time or a cell time?

Thanks,
Jarret

[DaSilva]

OK.
In the LAYOUT EDITOR TAB you have to set 3 directories:
- Target Dir
- DVD Root Dir
- Mux Dir

There where you set the DVD Root Dir you will get your 1GB vob's
In the Mux Dir you you get the big VOB.

To Joseph2
Thanks I got the subtitles in Scenarist now but yet I have another problem.
Whenever a subtitle displays it fills the whole picture.
So I get a complete RED picture with Blue Subs although I've set them as Black background with White subs.
Should I fix this is Subrip, MaestroSTB or Scenarist?

Thanks AGAIN :), and sorry for being such a pain in the ass.

[jarret3]

hey Dasilva can u come on irc?

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph, we need to get you to come into a chat, me and coop are very close to having the entire method down pat, but we have a few question we need you to clear up for us. And with your permisson we would like to write a complete guide, so everyone could share in this great method.

Thanks,
Jarret

[Joseph2]

To DaSilva
It seems you're having problems with subtitle colours. The solution depends on if you're getting the problems before or after placing the new VOB's in the original directory.
a) Before moving the VOB's. Play the multiplexed track with PowerDVD, and look what happens. If the problem continues, you have not correctly set the subtitle colours in Scenarist. Edit the track again, click the required subtitle, and apply "change colour" in the menu. here you should apply the original colours (Usually white for the text, black/gray for the border, and any colour in the background (but always with a 0% in it). Remux again.
b) The colours are correct in a), but change when moving to the ripped directory. The colour information is in the IFO file, which you don't move. If the colours don't match, the colour palettes used in Scenarist and in the original film do not correspond. Edit both IFOS and copy the colour pattern to the original IFO. This will solve the problem.

To Jarret3
In Scenarist you do not have to set chapter/cell. Scenarist only sets scenes. It's the original IFO file which has the information concerning about if the scene is only a cell change, or also a chapter change. Usually the number of chapters and cells is the same, but sometimes happens that a chapter has not one but two cells. That's the reason to set not chapters, but cells, to have the same information that appears in the original IFO.
I think that you have most of the information in this thread to write a guide, that could be complemented with information appeareded in other threads and forums
Good luck.

Best regards

[jarret3]

So let me get this straight, all i need to do in Scenarist is to set all the scenes to match all the cell points i get from the original ifo and i will be fine? Then edit the original ifo to that of the multiplexed one?

[DaSilva]

OK I got the subtitle problem figured out :)
I multiplexed the whole bunch.
Then I used ifoedit to gt the vts sectors and then i burned the whole new scenarist ifo and vob set to dvd-r.

But then again problem :( (lol)
It plays in my standalone but when t reches a new chapter it quits.
I also can't skip to the next chapter although I've set then in Scenarist and in CCE.
I've checked the new vts_01_0.ifo and it doesn't state chapters but cells.

Example of the original ifo:
PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 12) (Cells: 13) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:05:01.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:05:01.14] [Frames: 7539]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:07:42.20 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:12:44.09] [Frames: 26648]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:10:10.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:22:54.20] [Frames: 61018]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:06:05.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:28:59.24] [Frames: 104517]

And this is the Scenarist ifo:

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:05:01.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:05:01.16] [Frames: 7541]

PGC_2 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 02] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:07:42.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:07:42.17] [Frames: 11567]

PGC_3 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 03] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:10:10.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:10:10.14] [Frames: 15264]

PGC_4 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 04] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:05.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:05.01] [Frames: 9126]

PGC_5 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 05] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:09:32.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:09:32.00] [Frames: 14300]

You see my problem?
As i said before I'm doing a movie only.
No menu's 1 audio track and 1 subitle stream.

[Joseph2]

To Jarret3
That's right. Set the scenes, multiplex, replace old VOB's with new ones, and correct the values in the original IFO file addresing cells with the new ones. Do not replace original IFO file because you will lose all the links with the rest of the DVD. That's all.

To DaSilva
I see you don't have all the cells under the same PGC, as in the original movie. I suppose you have gone in detail through the excellent Doom9's guide about Scenarist (miniDVD guide)
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
Aftar setting the chapters, and putting them under the same PGC with the appropiate order you should have something similar to the image. If you don't, that maybe the problem, because as you have not defined links between the PGC's, only the first chapter will be played.
I hope your trials have been on a DVD-RW. Good luck.

[Joseph2]

To Doom9
1) Some tricks when working with complex VOB structures (different VOB-Id's, logos, etc.).
The method is really the same. You have to reproduce with Scenarist the same PGC structure that appears in the IFO file. That is, if you have different VOB ID's, you will see their PGC order in the IFO file
(the order position in the VOB, not the playing order, that maybe different) and the corresponding number of frames to separate them. Set in CCE not only the chapter/cell frames, but also these frames. Reencode, set all the scenes in Scenarist and distribute them in PGC's with the same structure. Multiplex, replace VOB's and copy the new cell addresses to the original IFO file, as always. That's all. This method always works.
Perhaps it maybe a simpler method, and it's not necessary to reproduce all the PGC's stuff, as you only require the new cell addresses, but I haven't tested it.

2) You must set scenes for all the cells, and not only the chapters. If you look ant the PGC_1 area under VTS_PGCITI in the IFO file, you will see that all the cells have their own information, and it doesn't matter if they are chapters or not. This is the information you have to update, so you need to set all the cells. If you fix the cells, the chapters are fixed by themselves.

I hope this helps to solve most of the problems.

As I have said through the thread this is my experience, and perhaps there maybe simpler of better methods for some of the steps, as it has been demonstrated (remember the method to correct the position of the I frames). I hope there will be many improvements.

Best regards

[Doom9]

one thing you didn't answer ;)

is it possible to have one single m2v file but create multiple PGCs from it? Like PGC1 goes from 0:00:00 to 1:05:32 and PGC2 from 1:05:32 to the end of the movie.. or do you actually have to split?

I have a movie already encoded with only chapter positions.. it has 1 cell more than chapters because it's a regular dual layer Warner flick so the stuff after the layer change is in another VOB ID. However, I have no DVD burner to test for real... using WinDVD and PowerDVD to test may not be enough in this case.

[Joseph2]

To Doom9
I always divide the single .m2v you get from CCE in PGC's, not in VOB-ID's. Sometimes I have found films with more than a single VOB-ID, but even in those cases all of them appear under the same PGC in the IFO file.
But (there is always a but) there have been a few cases I couldn't use a single .m2v file to do the multiplexing. For example, in 'The Mexican' I wanted to keep some of the extras, including 8 additional scenes. I did with the common method (a single .m2v for the VOB with 8 PGC's inside). Everything was OK 'til the 6th scene, in which there was a slight out of synch. As I'm a bit perfectionist, I wanted to solve it, and the only solution I found was to divide the original VOB in the 8 smaller VOB's, reencode each one separately and then multiplex them together inside Scenarist. I suppose the reason was that in the 4-5th scene the audio was slightly shorter than the video. This problem may appear in some cases when you have non seamless play between the PGC's because they have really been multiplexed from different tracks.
Appart from these special cases, I always use a single .m2v file.
I hope this helps
Best regards

[Doom9]

okay.. you've just answered that it is possible to have multiple PGCs for a single .m2v but how exactly would you do that? I'm guessing that this is the point where most people are having problems.. when I first read it.. the only thing unclear was the cells.. if you had written from the beginning that you set scene in the scenarist scenario editor wherever there's a cell in the original VOB that would've been clear (but as it was not got a lot of people confused and they came to me for help)..

So.. how do I create multiple PGCs for a single .m2v in scenarist step by step?

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by Doom9
So.. how do I create multiple PGCs for a single .m2v in scenarist step by step?

I don't understand your question. You already have it in your Scenarist Guide, Step 3.
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
- Set scenes in the track editor
- When you set the scenes, a collection of scenes is created (in your guide, look at the image matrix_1-t_1-scn-cell, ..._1-cell, ..._n-cell. They appear in the scenario editor, in the right lower area of the screeen (tracks).
- Just create as many PGC's under the VTS and drag&drop the scenes in the desired order under the desired PGC. If you put them in the original order, the playing will be always seamless.
Perhaps I have not understood your question correctly, and my answer may look stupid.

[Doom9]

@tconnectt: no, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. My Scenarist knowhow has become a bit rusty since I haven't used the prog for more than a year and right now I'm too busy with codecs to try this out by myself.. but I guess with these answers everybody else should be able to implement this method

[jdobbs]

Joseph2

Good thread. Good work.

Thanks.

[DaSilva]

Thanks all of U guys.
My movie only project works now :)
Picture is PERFECT!!!

[jarret3]

Agreed, method works great, great thread.

I am working on a complete guide right now, as soon as i get some more time i will have it finished and i will give it to Doom to put up on the site.

Thanks,
Jarret

[icon]

Hey guys,

I used the new CCE2.5 encoding method for frameserving, using it in place of the ReMpeg/TMPEG section in Doom9's DVD guides. I applied this to just the striped main movie with one ac3 audio track. I have already fixed the ifo file in ifoedit. I then proceeded to framserve and encode the movie so it will now fit on a disc. I had already imported the chapter numbers to CCE. Then I used Ifoedit to remux the cce movie to the vobs. I never touched the audio. I then VTSed the ifos in ifoedit. When I burned to rw, the movie played very choppy both the audio and video. The chapter points seem to work, but there was more chapters than movie. When I ran these vobs from my hd, the movie played and sounded a better, but was still having some sluggish issues. I'm still a little new to this method, so I was hoping for some help. The point was to fix the vobs with the cce encoded video, so no reauthoring has to be done. I can say when I view the cce encoded file, it looks perfect and plays flawless. Therefore, I don't know if it the remuxing part in ifoedit or what. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I was not using the most recent copy of ifoedit. Thanks,

ICON

[DaSilva]

Hello Icon,

you can't use Ifoedit (for now) to remux the cce created .m2v file.
You have to read this complete thread.
I'm a very newbie and I followd this thread and it works even for me :)

Good luck!

[Derrow]

Originally posted by Joseph2

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 19) (Cells: 20) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:25.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:25.16] [Frames: 9641]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:05:27.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:11:52.17] [Frames: 27458]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:07:13.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:19:06.06] [Frames: 56114]

If you translate the length of each of these 3 chapters (indicated in time) to frames you will get 9641, 8176 and 10839 respectively. So you would need to fix the chapter points in frames
0 (not necessary)
9641
17817 (=9641+8176)
28656 (=17817+10839)
... and so on 'til the end of the total frames of the film.
You can also translate directly the end position of each chapter. Remember that for the total number of frames DVD2AVI files are always a couple of frames lower than the original film.
The frames indicated at the end of each line in the IFO are not real frames (at least in the common sense to compare with CCE). Those values come from these calculations, that I don't understand what's for:


Indeed, there's a bug in IfoEdit!
I've added the total time to the last frames, instead of cell time.

Why did nobody reported a bug in there, to me? I've could already have fixed this.

Next release will show you the right number of frames!

[icon]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Hello Icon,

you can't use Ifoedit (for now) to remux the cce created .m2v file.
You have to read this complete thread.
I'm a very newbie and I followd this thread and it works even for me :)

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I read the whole thread prior to my post, I didn't see anything about not remuxing with ifoedit. I must have been half a sleep. I take it there is no way currently to remux the cce video back to the vobs. Meaning that the audio has to be demuxed and then we will have to author the video and audio into a dvd. I think this is probably the case since this thread mostly talks about authoring the cce file. Just curious, does anyone know why remuxing with ifoedit doesn't work with cce or why it works with a ReMpeg/Tmpeg video file. Thanks,

ICON

[psyduck]

Hi,

[Eyes`Only]

All those that are involved in this post are requested to look at my separate post titled "CCE and IfoEdit Guide Problem" at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=99559 to see if you can offer any information on why my chapters are not coming out correctly.

Joseph2: This request is especially for you. You said that when you set your chapters in the first pass of CCE everything worked perfect? When I try it they seem off by a couple of frames. Can you help?

Thanks in advance

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by Eyes`Only
All those that are involved in this post are requested to look at my separate post titled "CCE and IfoEdit Guide Problem" at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=99559 to see if you can offer any information on why my chapters are not coming out correctly.

Joseph2: This request is especially for you. You said that when you set your chapters in the first pass of CCE everything worked perfect? When I try it they seem off by a couple of frames. Can you help?

Thanks in advance

Sorry for not answering before.
I think your problem can be relate with the GOP structure you fix in CCE settings. It seems that you are not getting the required frames, and Scenarist looks for the nearest 'I' in your track. That is the origin of your problem: you don't get the 'I' frames in the right position because you are probably restricting CCE to do so. The settings should be:
- The same (or similar) GOP structure than the original film
- DO NOT RESTRICT I frame insertion (box unchecked)
- Close GOP (this is not determining, and I usually have it checked).
- And the most important thing (that was one of my first errors) is to set the chapter frames BEFORE doing the first CCE pass.
If you have failed in any of those settings, you must do the first pass again.

To Doom9
Thanks for your hard work in compiling the thread in an excellent guide.
Just a question for PAL encoding: I have not succeeded in converting subtitles to Scenarist PAL format with S3conv. The only output resolution available is NTSC. Is that a bug or it's only my problem?

Best regards

[Eyes`Only]

Joseph2,

I have fulfilled all those requirements except for Close GOP. I set the chapters before the first pass (earlier in this post it was pointed out that that needed to be done, and i heeded the warning), didn't restrict I-frames, and I set the n/m at 3/4, like the guide says to do. I assume this creates a similar GOP structure? I entered in all the chapters according to what ChapterXtractor shows.

Did my not setting Close GOP cause my symptoms?

I figured that CCE is not setting the I-frames properly. But actually I do get really close if not dead-on when i adjust the times ahead. ie. the I-frame i need is there, it's just not at the point that the timecode from Ifoedit says it should be. If i guess around a bit I can usually find the correct I-frame timecode, but it takes an exasperating amount of effort to find 28+ of these by guesswork!

[Doom9]

@joseph2: I've only tested NTSC sources.. I'll give a pal title a spin.. hope I took a pal disc with me (I'm back at school.. the largest part of my DVD collection is at my parent's place).

[DaSilva]

Hya me again :),

i have reencoded a few movies now using CCE and multiplexed them with Scenarist so far no problem.
Now I have reencoded Forrest Gump using exactly the same settings as shown in the guide (for the 2nd pass AVG Bitrate:5760 MIN Bitrate:0000 MAX Bitrate:9800).
Only now when I try to multiplex with Scenarist it gives me the following error:
Info Multiplexing VOB Main Stream
Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 77019054, SCR 77019140)
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (forrest_gump.scn-video_d2v-vfapi-t_t.vob).
Error Total bitrate is too HIGH. Please reduce the stream bitrate or the number of stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.

Anyone an idea to solve this problem?
I asked before and then they said to lower the max bitrate but then someone else replied it wouldn't work in my standalone anymore if i did that.

Thanks.

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Hya me again :),

Now I have reencoded Forrest Gump using exactly the same settings as shown in the guide (for the 2nd pass AVG Bitrate:5760 MIN Bitrate:0000 MAX Bitrate:9800).
I asked before and then they said to lower the max bitrate but then someone else replied it wouldn't work in my standalone anymore if i did that.

Thanks.

I always set MIN=2000 and MAX=8500 and I have never had a problem in my standalone. Sometimes even CCE gives a peak outside DVD specifications. If you set MAX=9800, you have a high probability of getting a peak of 10-10500, that added to the audio tracks will be outside DVD specifications (analyze your track with bitrate viewer to see if this is happening). To be on the safe side I prefer to set MAX below 9000, and I have never had a problem.

[jackjohnson24]

Joseph2, in u're first post, i thought those steps were showing how to re-encode a dvd so u can keep the menus and extras, which is basically making a complete back up of the movie. At the end of the post u said that u can also re-encode the extras to make a complete backup of the dvd. That confused me, i thought the steps listed were to make a complete backup since u're keeping the menus and extras. Also, how would a movie like Braveheart which is like 3 hours long look if u wanted to re-encode it and keep the menus and extras. It would probaly need a real low bitrate.

[Joseph2]

To Jackjohnson24
Both alternatives can be possible. It depends on the movie and your acceptable quality. If you don't reduce the bitrate of the extras there are some cases in which the quality of the movie wil be considerably reduced. As a rule of thumb I usually try not to go under 4000 b/s for 2 hour movies. This often required to strip or reencode some extras. However, as an example, I did Pearl Harbor (3 hour) with 2400 b/s, and the result was astonishing.
You'd better make some trials to fix your quality limit and then decide if you prefer to keep all the extras untouched.

[jackjohnson24]

Thanks 4 the reply joseph2. Um, how do u go about re-encoding the extras. The extras arent mpeg2 like a movie right?

[Eyes`Only]

It seems to me that the only logical answer is that when I use dvd2avi-->vfapi-->cce-->pulldown(i only have NTSC DVDs) I end up modifying the structure to make chapter correction almost impossible. Does this method involving pulldown add extra frames? Is there any way that I can change the configuration on one of the steps I'm doing to get the correct structure?

[ello]

question for Joseph2


wn I was reading some franch and US Board, i notice that some people ahve problems with your method when using noname, princo, vivastar DVDR in standalone ( in facts in no pioneer standalone)? Some says that when you use pioneer, apple, tdk media ther is no problem
Th e problem is
" when play some off my backups.
In the beginning is all ok, but after a few chapters, in about 70 % of my backups the film starts to freeze, it happens in my standalone (Loewe, tokai, mustec) and in another ones (Nintaus, Philips, Sony).
I think that maybe the problem is on Princo or on my burning program.
I have the images of my backups on my HD, and I try to burn another time the ones that give me problems in some cases all becomes fine.
So I try to have some conclusion on that.

Personnaly, i used noname cd for svcd creation and i have no problem. I think it must be the same with noname dvd r
With your experience, i think you haved burned many and many DVD R, so my question is What do you think.

Thanks


PS sorry for my englinsh, i am a french man ;)

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jackjohnson24
Thanks 4 the reply joseph2. Um, how do u go about re-encoding the extras. The extras arent mpeg2 like a movie right?

The extras are also mpeg2 movies, but sometimes with a more complex structure (take a look at the corresponding .IFO file). This method can be applied exactly in the same way for extras, even being more agressive lowering the bitrate. I usually encode the extras I want to keep at 2000-2500 kb/s, with acceptable results in most cases.

To ello
Listen what people told you in your thread, specially mikeathome
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20287
Only Pioneer/Apple give almost guaranteed results in most standalones. If you're gonna play your DVD's in a PC, then you can use cheaper brands.

[jdobbs]

Joseph2,

Thanks for the hard work on this thread. Using your methods I've found that I can make copies of virtually anything with only a few minor changes here and there.

Just wanted to add some input for the benefit of those who like to keep things simple... I use this method using SpruceUp as the authoring package. Since SpruceUp consistently creates VOBs that have a 1:1 ratio of cells to chapters it makes it possible to easily create a VOB set, then cut-and-paste chapter information (starting at the PGC Program Map offset) from the SpruceUp generated IFO directly into the original. Then just running Get_VTS_Sectors fixes everything up -- and the title set is ready to go for burning using SpruceUp.

This saves a lot of effort in the authoring and relieves the manual editing. It has limitations, though:

1. SpruceUp burns the output fine, but Prassi seems to choke on the resulting title set. Haven't seen any problems with my standalone yet, though.
2. Only one AC3 audio track (that's all I ever need).
3. No subtitles (also all I ever need).

jdobbs

[SAT4N]

Hi all, I've read this whole thread and still dont see the answer I'm looking for. After authoring with Maestro I get 18 chapters with 1 cell per chapter in the new IFO. I need to copy/paste those frame points into the original IFO that ifoedit created, but theres 2 or 3 cells per chapter. What should I do with these extra cells?

[Derrow]

This is a problem then.

I think, IfoEdit needs a button to merge the Menu of another IFO file into the current loaded.
This should fix your problems.

[SAT4N]

Sounds good to me :) Is there a way to manually add chapters? Because I used your guide to create a new IFO which works for this movie but only has 1 chapter.

[Derrow]

Not yet.

But I hope to implement deleting/adding chapters, soon.

[jarret3]

Sat4n,

You are a bit confused. If you read the post throughly you would know that you are supposed to keep the structure of the original IFOs when you multiplex. Therefore, since you are using Maestro you need to set punch points at the begining and end of each of the chapters you want multiple cells in, and put the cells in between the punch points. This gets a bit complicated in Maestro, but it is fairly simple in Scenarist, since it gives you a structure diagram. If you don't know how to use Scenarist for this method, Doom wrote a great article on how to do it. All you are doing is creating chapter points, you are forgetting u also need to do the cells, or it wont work! Hope that helps a bit.

Ohh yeah and Derrow how do u plan on merging the menu from one IFO to another? It sounds really cool, but will it in fact work? Since in reality all your doing is copying a structure instead of multiplexing new ones. Therefore would things match up? I know if anyone can do it you can Derrow :)

[SAT4N]

jarret3, thanks for the repsonse. That makes perfect sense and I guess I just missed that part of the guide because I never saw anything about punch points. I will try it in Scenarist now!

[jarret3]

Yeah, the post doesn't really explain how to do the method in Maestro, and i wouldn't recommomend that you try and learn it for your first time. Just follow Doom's guide on Scenarist under the CCE/IFOEdit method, you should be fine.

Jarret

[jdobbs]

As long as the number of Chapters is correct, and the destination has at least as much space dedicated to PGC (so you don't overwrite something) you can just cut and paste the entire block of data (using HEXEDIT) starting at the point (in the VTS_PGC) that IFOEdit labels "PGC Program Map" (remember to consider the offset for the VTS_PGCI header) and ending at the last byte of the PGC in the source -- then you will also be pasting the Cell/Chapter relationships as well as the items outlined in Joseph2 and Doom9's guide. You can change the number of cells at address offset 3.

It can sometimes, though, get problematic on destination IFOs that have multiple PGCs, but I've still made it work. The HEX mode of Windows Calculator comes in handy for sizing the destination paste.

[Derrow]

Originally posted by jarret3
Ohh yeah and Derrow how do u plan on merging the menu from one IFO to another? It sounds really cool, but will it in fact work? Since in reality all your doing is copying a structure instead of multiplexing new ones. Therefore would things match up? I know if anyone can do it you can Derrow :)

Well the IFO file containes different tables for the TitleSet (Movie) and the menu.
So I thought it should work perfect, if I just merge the tables containing the Menu information to the new IFO.

BTW: Have a look at my new page:
http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/Derrow/ifovts.html

It's a small IFO file specifiaction.

[jarret3]

OHH, I think i was a bit confused before. So u mean u would copy the menu info over to the multiplexed ifo files, right? Such as the VTSM_PGCI_UT info, etc.

Jarret

[xup]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Joseph2,

Thanks for the hard work on this thread. Using your methods I've found that I can make copies of virtually anything with only a few minor changes here and there.

jdobbs


jdoobs I would like to give your method a try but could you please give me a slighty more detailed account of how you are going about re-editing the original ifo file with the new one created as your method sounds like it would cater exactly for my needs.


Cheers

xup

[jdobbs]

xup,

Forgive me for being verbose, a lot of this is a repeat of Joseph2’s method. I just wanted to save paging back and forth. This method uses SmartRipper, IFOEdit, CCE, Pulldown, SpruceUp, ChapterXtractor. It has the limitation (from SpruceUp) of only a single AC3 track and no subtitles. You could, I’m sure, replace the SpruceUp section with any other authoring package. The last steps seem complicated, but they actually save some time by ridding the method of a lot of manual changes. I especially think a little programming support could automate that process and make life much easier.

1. Using SmartRipper open the DVD. If it appears in the opening screen that there is more than one angle on the movie's title set you should think twice about using this method if this is your first time. You can make this one work, but its more complicated, and it gets easier after you've done it a few times and understand IFOs a little. If you're ready to go -- Set SmartRipper to "Files" mode and copy the entire DVD's content down to a subdirectory (I use "d:\image\vobs")

2. Using DVD2AVI select the track that holds the movie (usually the largest) and create a new D2V and AC3 (I put it in "d:\image")

3. Use either the VFAPI or AVISynth method(s) for frame serving to CCE. I use AVISynth (its a little faster) with the following script:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRAM FILES\DVD-RIP\AVISYNTH\MPEG2DEC.DLL")
mpeg2source("d:\image\infile.d2v")
ResampleAudio(44100)

4. Feed the AVS (AVISynth) or AVI (VFAPI) into CCE. Don’t worry about chapter markers etc in CCE as Joseph2 outlined - it doesn’t matter in this method - you will choose the closest I frame in SpruceUp (you’ll be within a half second). Make sure you set CCE to the proper DAR (match the original). Ignore the fact that SpruceUp is 4:3 specific -- it will accept 16:9 source. I've come to love the Robshot method for this step. If I use the bitrate that gets the overall Q factor under 9 (as Robshot suggests) I have never (yet) had to worry about the resulting output size fitting on a DVD-5. You may want to calculate (especially for those DVDs where the special features take a lot of space) the size of your title set just to be safe. I would suggest, though, that if you can't keep the Q factor under 10 and make it fit -- go to a 2 DVD-R solution. If you don't care about quality you might as well use a 99 cent VHS tape. The encode takes a while. On my 1.3Ghz Athlon system is takes about an hour for each 1.25 hours of movie for each of the two passes.

5. If this is a FILM source used for NTSC run PULLDOWN.EXE against the resultant .MPV file.

6. Using SpruceUp, load the MPV and AC3 file as an asset, this takes about 5 minutes as it checks the sources.

7. Use ChapterXtractor and open the IFO from the original VTS_X_X.IFO. I usually cut and paste the chapters into notepad or Wordpad and keep the file open so I can reference the points (using ALT-TAB) while setting chapters in SpruceUp.

8. In SpruceUp double click on the video asset. Then use the slider to set chapter points. Using the output from Chapter extractor get as close as you can to the same point in time as the original for each chapter. The chapter point doesn't have to match exactly, but you want the scenes to match the menus in your original source pretty closely -- I usually use the arrow keys to go back an forth around the point to find the best transition point / scene change. Do this for all chapters -- and make sure (important) your final chapter count matches that of the original VOB... You are going to use most of the original title's IFO -- and it expects the correct count.

9. Drag the SpruceUp video asset into the first play frame (on the bottom of the screen). Then EXPORT. Choose to create a title set in a directory of your choice. (I use d:\spruceupimage). The VOBs created will have perfect sync and will be used to replace the originals...

10. I usually then go to the original source directory and backup my original IFO and BUP files in case I make a mistake. I also move the main title VOBs (e.g. VTS_03_1.VOB - VTS_03_x.VOB) to another directory also. Just make sure you remove these VOBs from the original source directory, they will be replaced by the SpruceUp output.

11. Change the title set number to match the ones you will replace (e.g. VTS_01_1.VOB might become VTS_03_1.VOB) and copy all except VTS_01_0.VOB to the directory you cleared in step 10. The “0” file often contains the menu information you want to keep in the original…

12. Here’s where it diverges from Joseph2’s method. Open the newly created IFO file (from SpruceUp) with IFOEdit. Also open the IFO from the original title set (e.g. VTS_03_0.IFO). In the SpruceUp-created IFO, click on VTS_PGCITI. If you used SpruceUp you’ll notice that the bottom window shows the VTS_PGCI start byte value as 10 (hex). The first PGC descriptor itself starts with that offset - remember that because it’s an offset you need to remember when using HEXEDIT. Now expand on VTS_PGC_1. Notice (if you used SpruceUp) that the count for programs and cells is the same. Scroll down until you see: "PGC Program Map" under the description tab. Write down the beginning address on the line underneath (e.g. [0000015c]). Now continue scrolling to the bottom of the PGC area. Also write down the final address (e.g. [000005c3]) You can use the HEX function in windows calculator to compute the size (5c3 - 15c = 467) of the area you will need to copy. Now click on VTS_PGCITI again and push the HEXEDIT button. Use the values you wrote down, and add an offset that matches the header (10 hex) to mark an area that you want to copy. In my example it would be 16c (15c + 10) through 5d3 (5c3 + 10). Highlight (with your mouse) the area in the hexeditor containing this range. Right click on the highlighted area and select "copy". This puts the chapter/cell information into the clipboard.

13. Now, on the original IFO, go through the same method to find the beginning and end of the program/chapter area -- make sure the size is at least as big as your source (it has been every time for me, since the originals tend to have more cells that SpruceUp). It is alright if it's bigger. When you're looking at the first page of the PGC, change the number of cells (offset 3) to match your source cell count. In SpruceUp the Programs and Cells will match. If you have multiple PGCs write down the VTS_PGCI start byte for the PGC you are replacing as that will be your offset value for hexedit (see step 12). In most IFOs you don't have to worry about it, there is only 1 PGC and the offset is 10. Now, using the first address of the "PGC Program Map" as the base (adding the offset) and the HEXEDIT button (same as step 12) highlight a section the same size as the area you copied to the clipboard (in my example it was 467. So, for example, if the start address was 22C and the offset was 10, you'd highlight from 23C (22C+10) through 6A3 (23C + 467). Now right click and paste from the clipboard.

14. Next I save the original IFO with my changes and do a standard IFOEdit "Get VTS Sectors" to fix the now incorrect sector offsets.

15. It's done. I test with PowerDVD, put the results in a VIDEO_TS directory with a blank AUDIO_TS directory, and then reenter SpruceUp and write the title set to DVD-R. I've done this on several titles so far. Only one, which had multiple angles in the original, created a problem in that the disk started up with the movie instead of the menu. Luckily in that case Derrow was kind enough to provide me with a First Play command that fixed it.

jdobbs

[SAT4N]

OK everything is moving right along for me (I got in this thread a bit late), and the only problem I'm having is that chapters are still off by a few frames. I have an NTSC source, and have changed rate to 23.976 in Chapter-X-Tractor and plugged those frame times into CCE before the first pass. But in Scenarist I'm still not allowed to choose the exact scene times as Chapter-X-Tractor shows. All options are identical to those in the guide. I'm 99% happy with the chapters being off a few milliseconds but wouldn't mind getting past this final (hopefully) hurdle. Thanks for the great guides...

[xup]

jdobbs,

Thanks for such a detailed explanation, this exactly suits my needs just 1 audio track and no subtitles is all what I need at the moment.

Just getting to grips with steps 12-13 of your guide in my head and will then give it a go tonight.

Thanks once againg jdobbs that must have taken some time typing but is very much appreciated.


xup

[Eyes`Only]

Originally posted by jdobbs

... Don’t worry about chapter markers etc in CCE as Joseph2 outlined - it doesn’t matter in this method - you will choose the closest I frame in SpruceUp (you’ll be within a half second)...
jdobbs

Note: This works fine if you really don't care about correct chapter points, but if you do a movie which has a killer FMV sequence leading into each chapter, such as Final Fantasy, you'll be very sorry if you don't follow the guide and set the chapter points in CCE correctly. I tried both methods (setting and not-setting) and by not setting the chapter points, the FMV-to-chapter effect in Final Fantasy looks terrible and is totally off sync. You probably won't fully understand unless you get this DVD or an equivalent, but I'd really recommend taking the time to set the I-frames EXACTLY, since if you're studying the method outlined in this thread, you probably are someone that wants a perfect DVD everytime, just like I do.

Also noted (thanks to Jarret3 for this one)- if you are re-authoring extras, or complex main movies, the original VOB will point to many VobIDs. Your re-authored VOBs created using this method seem to have VobID #1 only. Therefore, in the latter steps of the method, it seems you need to change all the pointers in the original ifo that point to the different VobIDs to instead point to VobID #1, just like the re-authored IFO does. Has anyone else (besides Jarret3) noticed this?

Also, if your VOBs contain more than one PGC, one important step has been left out of the guide. When you go to enter the chapter points into CCE, uncheck the 'last chapter bugfix'. Then you must use the PGC drop down box (changing the framerate EVERY time you change the PGC # if you are using 23970 fps) and also enter in the chapter points that are in each PGC, not just the main PGC 1 that the guide shows.