Finally, an IfoEdit/CCE working method

[Joseph2]

This is not a very straightforward method, but it allows to merge CCE-encoded files with IfoEdit-processed menus, titles and extras. I have tried almost every method proposed (included the new Tmpg method included in v0.85) without success. The key of the problem seems to be related with track multiplexing, so the solution I have found is to multiplex with other tool.
These are the main steps in created a totally reauthored DVD backup:
a) Follow Doom9 guides carefully to analyze the DVD, strip streams (audio or subtitles) or any other extra you don't need.
b) Calculate the final video size for the video file to be encoded with CCE in order to fit thr 4.38 Gb of a DVD-R/RW
c) Follow Robshot method to encode with CCE. It should be useful to set chapter/cell frames to be sure you get an "I" frame in the beginning of each cell. However, although I have made several trials including the chapter frames, I have never succeeded in getting the right I frames. There is always a slight difference of 5-10 frames.
d) Multiplex the video with the desired audio and subtitle tracks with any authoring software. I have tried Scenarist, although I suppose that Maestro should also work. The audio tracks have been already decoded in the DVD2AVI step, while the subtitle tracks may be easily moved from the original VOB's to Scenarist via Subrip/Subadjust/MaestroSBT (about 5 minutes each subtitle track through BMP, and avoiding all the OCR stuff).
e) Now the key point: if you just multiplex the files, you will get a collection of working VOB's, with perfectly synch audio, but that do not respect the original chapter points (as the GOP structure has been changed, also the chapter points must be fixed if you want to get a perfect copy). Before multiplexing you must set the cell (not only chapters, but all the cell frames you can get from IfoEdit) in Scenarist. As stated before, Scenarist needs an "I" frame as the beginning of the cell, and CCE usually produces slight differences of 5-10 frames in setting each cell.
f) Multiplex and replace the original VOBS (from VTS_X_01... to VTS_X_NN) with the new Scenarist multiplexed. DO NOT REPLACE THE IFO FILES, because you need the original one. However, keep the multiplexed one in a different place, because you need some information from them.
g) 'Til now everything is quite simple, and it doesn't take much longer than the previous procedure. Now the final and most boring process: you must edit the film IFO file, and look for the PGC_1 area aunder VTS_PGCITI. In each of the cells it is necessary to replace the information about "Playback time", "entry sector", "Start sector" and "End sector" with the values that appear on the multiplexed Scenarist IFO. This will correct the chapter points. As I said before, this is the most boring part, as usually films have near 30 cell information you must copy and paste. Perhaps Derrow can help in this point including a new tool to sync chapters.
h) Save the corrected film IFO and then remember to GET VTS.
i) That's all. You have a perfect working copy with menus, chapters, extras and whatever you want, and with a quality much higher than the obtained with reMPEG og Tmpg. The quality is so good indeed, that you can reencode also the extras and get a complete backup copy of the original DVD with no noticeable difference in quality.

[jarret3]

what do u edit the ifo files with?

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jarret3
what do u edit the ifo files with?

With IfoEdit: you simply double click on the line you want to modify and change the value. When you finish all changes, you save it and that's all. To save some time, I copy the remuxed ifo (copy2clipboard) to an excel file, and copy and paste the required values to the original IFO.

[malzahn]

good work,some questions i have:

most double layered DVDs have a additional cell at the layer changing point, so how can you create a cell without having a chapter in scenarist (that would be necessary for creating a identical chapter /cell structure I guess)? Or any other solution for this problem ?

the vob IDs are kept in the vobs , normally vob ID in the vobs change
with the layer change from 1 to 2, the vobs created from scenarist normally use only one vob ID, doesn't this fact cause problems in navigation afterwards?

regards malzahn

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph i got 2 questions for you.

#1) how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE to be sure you get an "I" frame in the beginning of each cell?

#2) I am a bit confused about setting chapter an cell frames in scenarist. First off if CCE output is off by 5-10 frames then do u need to make up for that when setting them in scenarist? Also where/how do u set the cell points in Scenarist? I was reading up alot in the PDF but couldn't find anything

Thanks Alot,
Jarret

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by malzahn
good work,some questions i have:

the vob IDs are kept in the vobs , normally vob ID in the vobs change
with the layer change from 1 to 2, the vobs created from scenarist normally use only one vob ID, doesn't this fact cause problems in navigation afterwards?

regards malzahn


Most of the films have a single PGC with a collection of cells. The most similar case I have found is when you try to reencode extras with additional scenes and things like that (a single VOB with different Vob-ID's or PGC's). In that case I keep a single VTS but with as many PGC as Vob-ID's required. After setting chapter (cells) I assign them to the corresponding PGC. When you multiplex, you should find them separated in different Vob-Id's.
I hope this can help you.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jarret3
Hey Joseph i got 2 questions for you.

#1) how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE to be sure you get an "I" frame in the beginning of each cell?

#2) I am a bit confused about setting chapter an cell frames in scenarist. First off if CCE output is off by 5-10 frames then do u need to make up for that when setting them in scenarist? Also where/how do u set the cell points in Scenarist? I was reading up alot in the PDF but couldn't find anything

Thanks Alot,
Jarret

#1) In the main menu screen ("Encode settings") and the second box ("input files") you have a "Settings" Button. When you press it a new window with the filename and the number of frames appear. If you double-click on the file a new menu appears, when you can set the encode range and chapter list. Here I set the corresponding cell beginning frames, but usually I always get a slight deviation (the mentioned 5-10 frames).

#2) In Scenarist you should go to the "Track editor" page. Here you find Time scale, video, audio and subpictures for the selected track. At the botton, there is another area called "Scenes". It has a slider you can move to the desired point (or input the timeframe in the top left box). When you have reach the desired point you can use the button or the menu "New Scene". Scenarist will look for the nearest "I" frame to set it as the chapter point. Repeat the procedure for all the desired chapters, and distribute them in the desired order in the scenario editor under the same or different PGC, as required.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by malzahn
good work,some questions i have:

the vob IDs are kept in the vobs , normally vob ID in the vobs change
with the layer change from 1 to 2, the vobs created from scenarist normally use only one vob ID, doesn't this fact cause problems in navigation afterwards?

regards malzahn


Most of the films have a single PGC with a collection of cells. The most similar case I have found is when you try to reencode extras with additional scenes and things like that (a single VOB with different Vob-ID's or PGC's). In that case I keep a single VTS but with as many PGC as Vob-ID's required. After setting chapter (cells) I assign them to the corresponding PGC. When you multiplex, you should find them separated in different Vob-Id's.
I hope this can help you.

[malzahn]

thx Joseph 2,

when I have I little more time I'll test it.

I have a link to a nice little program, which could help you to spare a little time, it creates a scenarist script with the chapters from the original film, all what you need is the CCE 2.50.01.00,the doc is only in German,but the program is very easy to handle.

http://134.102.55.6/cgi-bin/download/dtrack.cgi?rc=dvd

regards malzahn

[tconnectt]

I tried your method with a PAL film without all the chapter / scenes stuff and it worked. The audio/video is synch, and I have access to the scenes from the menu.
Is it really necessary to set up the chapters and make the corrections you suggest in the .IFO?

Best regards

tconnect

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by tconnectt
I tried your method with a PAL film without all the chapter / scenes stuff and it worked. The audio/video is synch, and I have access to the scenes from the menu.
Is it really necessary to set up the chapters and make the corrections you suggest in the .IFO?

Best regards

tconnect

You must have been lucky, and reencoded a film with almost constant GOP structure. If you don't change chapter addresses, the first scenes from the menus will be correctly addressed. As the film goes on, the frame difference between the original chapter points and the rencoded ones will increase. The final difference will depend on how your reencoded GOP structure matches the original one. If you don't mind keeping the right chapter points then you don't need to fix the cell frames, and you may even avoid Scenarist and better use a simpler multiplexer.

Regards

Joseph2

[DaSilva]

Joseph can you do a more in depth explanation of how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE?
It's all quite confusing to me.

Maybe Doom9 can make a guide of your method?
Would be nice since everyone agrees CCE gives the best quality.

Thanks again.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Joseph can you do a more in depth explanation of how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE?


I tried to explain it in a previous post, but I'm not sure it's quite clear:
#1) In the main menu screen ("Encode settings") and the second box ("input files") you have a "Settings" Button. When you press it a new window with the filename and the number of frames appear. If you double-click on the file a new menu appears ("File settings"), when you can set the encode range and chapter list. To fix a chapter point, type in the desired frame in the "Frame search" box, and then press the "set" button in the "Chapter list" box. The frame will be added to the chapter list.
There is also some information about this menu in the CCE manual in PDF format included with the program (at least in the 2.50 version I use).

However, I have not succeeded in getting an "I" frame in the exact point set in the list, and there is always a slight difference of 5-10 frames. Perhaps it's related with the rest of GOP settings, where I usually fix:
- A GOP pattern similar to the original VOB
- [ ] restrict auto-I frame insertion
- [X] close all GOP
With this settings I usually get a constant GOP structure. I'm not sure if unchecking "close all GOP" it's possible to get the exact desired "I" frame in the cell/chapter point.
Anyway, a 5-10 frames in setting the chapter point is not really important.

I hope this helps
Best regards

[grog]

allo mate - question - I have worked out my required file size and required bitrate - However when I input the average Bitrate into CCE I find it creates an excessive sized file..


I want an average bitrate of 2468
and a filesixe of 390000000o bytes - problem is at 20% of reencoding I have a file of 2 Gig ...

What is wrong..??

Oh yeah this is a LONG film which is why the bitrate is so low (Dasboot)

Thanks in advance...

GROG

[DaSilva]

Well it's me again sorry.

I'm a very NEWBIE :)

U say U use Robshot's method to rencode the video stream.
Do you set the chapter/cell frames before u do the 1st pass or the 2nd?

Also from where in ifoedit do you get the original chapter point information?

This is some info of the movie i'm working with together with a copy and paste of a part of the ifo:
It has 19 chapters and the duration is 2h and 17min (Forrest Gump)

[Ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 17] : time: 00:07:08.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 1593222]
[Ch 17] [Pg 17] [Cell 18] : time: 00:05:39.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:59:40.07] [Frames: 1772729]
[Ch 18] [Pg 18] [Cell 19] : time: 00:10:10.18 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:09:51.00] [Frames: 1967504]
[Ch 19] [Pg 19] [Cell 20] : time: 00:06:26.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:16:17.00] [Frames: 2171929]

So I'm guessing i have to use the frames from here to set the chapter points? So that's a total of 2171929 frames for the whole movie.
But the problem is that in CCE the movie only has 204422 frames!

So either CCE is reporting it wrong, or i'm doing something wrong (i'm guessing it's the second option :o)

In each case thanks for helping me to get where i am now!

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by grog
I want an average bitrate of 2468
and a filesixe of 390000000o bytes - problem is at 20% of reencoding I have a file of 2 Gig ...
GROG

I assume you're following Robshot's method. In the first VBR pass you only want to get the bitrate distribution file (it's something like 2 passes in Nandub DivX), so the size doesn't matter in the first pass. In the second or multipass you always get the exact desired filesize calculated on the advanced tab setting page (at least in my experience).
Best regards
Joseph

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Do you set the chapter/cell frames before u do the 1st pass or the 2nd?
Also from where in ifoedit do you get the original chapter point information?


I see you have the PAL version of the film. Let's take the first chapters of the film:

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 19) (Cells: 20) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:25.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:25.16] [Frames: 9641]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:05:27.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:11:52.17] [Frames: 27458]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:07:13.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:19:06.06] [Frames: 56114]

If you translate the length of each of these 3 chapters (indicated in time) to frames you will get 9641, 8176 and 10839 respectively. So you would need to fix the chapter points in frames
0 (not necessary)
9641
17817 (=9641+8176)
28656 (=17817+10839)
... and so on 'til the end of the total frames of the film.
You can also translate directly the end position of each chapter. Remember that for the total number of frames DVD2AVI files are always a couple of frames lower than the original film.
The frames indicated at the end of each line in the IFO are not real frames (at least in the common sense to compare with CCE). Those values come from these calculations, that I don't understand what's for:
Ch 01: 9641 (=0+9641)
Ch 02: 27458 (=9641+17817)
Ch 03: 56114 (=27458+28656)
You don't need these values in any point of the reencoding process.

Coming back to the CCE encoding process, it's not necessary to fix the chapters in the first pass, only in the final VBR multipass. You can almost change everything from the first pass to the second, because in the first pass you only want to get the bitrate distribution for a defined quality.

Best regards
Joseph2

[jdobbs]

Hmmm.... This last bit seems contrary to the CCE documentation. During the first pass you create the VAF file. According to the User's Guide you must recreate the VAF whenever you set a chapter point, set GOP information, change to/from progressive, scan order, or aspect ratio (see the top of page 25 in the v2.5 manual)????

My experience has been that when you change any of these after the VAF was created, your change is ignored (although I have to admit I haven't tried the chapter change).

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Hmmm.... This last bit seems contrary to the CCE documentation. During the first pass you create the VAF file. According to the User's Guide you must recreate the VAF whenever you set a chapter point, set GOP information, change to/from progressive, scan order, or aspect ratio (see the top of page 25 in the v2.5 manual)????


Yes, you are completely right, if you are going to do a single VBR second pass. I understood that if you do a multipass, you take the information from each pass for the following one, and in that case it would not be so determinant. But I am not a CCE expert, and I may be wrong.

[DaSilva]

Thanks Joseph2 it looks like it's working mow.
I'm @65% of the VBR Multipass operation (doing 5 passes).

So when it's finished i get 3 files:
1)FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.mpv
2)FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.vaf
3)2ND_PASS.ecl

Let's say I want to make a DVD-r just containing the main movie, English Dolby AC3 6CH audio track and 3 Subtitle Streams (Dutch, English and French).
I used ifoedit on this movie to strip the menu's and unwanted audio/subtitle streams and used that result as source to the DVD2AVI - VFAPI - CCE process.

So where do I go from here?
I understand you now have to use Scenarist.
Is it possible to maybe write a quick guide from this point to just before burning the DVD-R (lol that's something i know how to, yippie!)
Because like i said i'm a complete video newbie.
But i pick up some things and after that it's just repeating everything like a monkey does :)

I have been visiting IRC alot to on this project and lot's of people are following your method combined with the Roshot's so congratulations.

And thanks again for going thru all the trouble explaining.

[jdobbs]

Joseph2

I think you're onto something here. I'm playing with it, and I think with a little software support this could be a way to get to the "quality quick-copy" method everyone is looking for. I've been ignoring most of these IFOEdit threads because, let's face it, the quality of the output from ReMPEG2 sucks big time when compared to almost EVERY other encoder.

I'm in the middle of trying this using SpruceUp (it is just so damn simple to use) to create the VOB (after CCE encodes it), SpruceUp is limited to one audio stream, but that's all I ever use.

What I've done in the past is use ChapterXtractor to create a list of chapter start times, and then just mark those points (in SpruceUp)as chapters before multiplexing (creating the VOBs). SpruceUp appears to create one cell per chapter during VOB creation. I just copied the CCE based VOB (minus the VTS_01_0.VOB where menus are typically kept) into the original's VIDEO_TS directory and was surprised to see how much worked as-is (of course the chapters are off). I'm going to go through with IFOEdit now and see what happens.

Hope this method pans out and gets some support from the programmers. Many of us have spent a lot of time copying pieces of menus and reauthoring from scratch just to get some decent quality on my DVD backups...

[grog]

Joseph -

I must be doing something wrong here....

Followed your advice but im still getting HUGE files....

At the moment the display reads - 591,048KB (2.8 Mbps) and this is at 4% of encoding - Surely this cannot be right -

In the advanced settings - the stream info stated that the file would be 3.8 Gig - I dont think this is going to happen at this rate... The average bitrate is set to 2500...

If I am being `Stupid` then please enlighten me :-)



GROG

[DaSilva]

I had that problem to.
I had a expected filesize of 4.100.000.000 and during the encoding it looked like the file would get much bigger.
But after the encoding session the file was even 4.000.000.000 so even smaller than expected.

Hope it's that way to in your case!

[Joseph2]

This thread is getting interesting

To DaSilva
The only file you will need will be FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.mpv, that must be renamed to .m2v to be imported into Scenarist.
I think Doom9 has a very good guide to support the terrible manual that comes with Scenarist. Go to the "MiniDVD Guide Authoring" and read it carefully. As you will not need any menu, only multiplex the files, it will be much simpler. The steps to be done will be:
- Open an standard project with 1 VTS, defining the appropiate AR (usually 16:9) in the assistant.
- Import the .m2v vile created with CCE.
- Add the desired audio streams you created with DVD2AVI (in the same order they appear after stripping undesired audio/subtitle streams with IfoEdit).
- Import the created subpicture streams. As I told in the beginning of the thread, the simplest and fastest method to import the subtitles in Scenarist is Subrip/Subadjust/MaestroSBT. I think in Maestro it is someway easier. In the Subtitles forum/Doom9 guides you can find additional information about these tools.
- Set the cell/chapter points in the created stream.
- Go back to the scenario editor, and put all the scenes under the same PGC following the appropiate order.
- Finally, multiplex and create the .VOB file collection that will replace the original ones.
That's all. Perhaps the first time it looks a bit complicated, but it's only this first time. Good luck.

To jdobbs
The only reason for me to continue using Scenarist is because I want to keep more than 1 AC3 audio stream. If that was not the case, for sure I will use a simpler multiplexer, because Scenarist is one the least friendly tools I have worked with.
I totally agree with you with the fact that when you work with CCE both in speed and quality, you cannot go back to ReMPEG2.
And one of the best thing in this method is that you avoid reauthoring menus. I also agree that some help from the programmers to simplify the final adjustements would be very welcome.

To grog
All my reencodings with CCE have finished with the exact (or slightly lower) desired filesize. Perhaps you have some trouble with your CCE version or hardware/software configuration. Have you found anything similar in the CCE forum?

Best regards
Joseph2

[sundance]

Joseph2,
would you care to give me (us) a more precise description of how to do a basic task (one video and 2 ac3 tracks, no menues) with Scenarist. This application is a real tough one to work with...

-sundance-

[jackjohnson24]

Im a newbie, can someone explain when im using joseph's process to keep the menus and extras how i calculate the desired file size of the movie and the bitrate

[bumblebe]

"let's face it, the quality of the output from ReMPEG2 sucks big time when compared to almost EVERY other encoder. "

It's really not very noticeable at bitrates of 4mbps and above !

[Joseph2]

To jdobbs
I have finally solved the 5-10 frames deviation in the chapter setting. You were completely right: you must fix the chapter points BEFORE doing the first pass in CCE. By doing so you get the chapters/cells in the exact desired point.
Sometimes one should read the manuals more carefully before doing anything...

To sundance
As I said in a previous post, DOOM9 has an excellent guide to begin with Scenarist. Just skip everything related with the menus and links for this method.
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
To do what you propose it's as simple as this:
- Open the program, and in the fist assistant select the desired AR and only 1 VTS (one film)
- The program will open and you will have 4 Tabs. Go to the "Scenario editor" tab. Drag&drop from Windows explorer the video track (.m2v) under the VTS_1 that will appear. Scenarist will import the track after a checking step.
- Click on the imported track, and using the right mouse button you will have access to "Edit Track". This will open the "Track editor" tab with the selected track. Drag&drop the desired audio tracks under the video track in the desired order.
- Go to the last tab "Layout editor". In step 3 click "Create DVD Video" and "Start". This will multiplex your track.
That's all
Perhaps it would be interesting to create an Scenarist independent forum, given the amount of questions arising from this software.

Best regards

[sundance]

Joseph2,

Originally posted by Joseph2
- Click on the imported track, and using the right mouse button you will have access to "Edit Track". This will open the "Track editor" tab with the selected track. Drag&drop the desired audio tracks under the video track in the desired order.


Hope you don't mind if I bother you again...
After importing the video file generated with CCE (btw, which gave me an Error: "Failed to create navigation object") it says "1 file accepted". But: Where do you click on the imported track? None of the context menues I found gave me an "Edit Track" option.

-sundance-

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by sundance
Joseph2,
After importing the video file generated with CCE (btw, which gave me an Error: "Failed to create navigation object") it says "1 file accepted". But: Where do you click on the imported track? None of the context menues I found gave me an "Edit Track" option.
-sundance-

The track should appear on the scenario editor under the VTS_1. If it is accepted, but not appear as a navigation object perhaps there was an error in that step. Did you drag & drop exactly over the VTS? You can try to import it again, but as it was already accepted, the track will be in your project. Navigate through the track explorer (right lower corner) 'til you find it and drag & drop it again over the VTS. When it is accepted on the scenario, a new black PGC with the film will appear under the VTS. Then you will be able to edit the track.
Good luck

[DaSilva]

Finally I'm getting there.
It looks like CCE is gaining VERY much in popularity!!!
Actually there's no alternative since we are working with DVD's here so quality DOES matter why settle for less :)

I still have a few questions though.
It looks like Scenarist is a bit too complicated and since i'm only keeping one audio track i guess SpruceUp will do fine, right?

About the subtitle tracks (i usually keep 3 of them).
Can I just rip them from smartripper and use em like that?
If not can you please post the quick steps of how to make em ready for use in SpruceUp or Scenarist?
You already explained the apps u used but if possible a little more "in depth".

This thread is starting to get a COMPLETE DVD to DVD-r with CCE (newbie) GUIDE! All we have to do is just add the pictures :)

Nice work ... all of you guys!!!

[Joseph2]

1) I don't know if SpruceUp can handle 3 subtitles. Perhaps someone can give more information about that. In my case I usually keep a couble of AC3 audio tracks + 1/2 subtitles. This reduces very much the number of available tools, specially if you wanna deal with chapter points. I thought that in this case only Maestro and Scenarist could be used, but I may be wrong. And talking about Scenarist, it's really hard if you wanna deal with menus and links, but if you only wanna multiplex, it's difficult only the first time.

2) I have gone through the subtitles forum, and AFAIK there is no way to import directly the subtitles (another task to be done for the wonderful software programmers in this area). Although most people prefer subtitle OCR, my experience in this field is not very good, because OCR don't work properly with subtitles in italic. I made some trials, and finally I developed a new and fast method that always work (at least for me). Very briefly, the steps would be:
- Ripp the subtitles with Subrip (I use 0.97 version). Select the desired language and create the .BMP subtitles.
- Export them in .srt format
- Now the only thing left is to modify the text .srt file to be compliant with Scenarist. It's just to modify the header and the structure and should be easily done in one step. I'm too lazy to program it myself so I use a couple of tricks
- Convert the .srt to .ssa with Subadjust. This will change the structure, but not the header.
- The final step is to create the Scenarist header. MaestroSBT is the only tool I have found for this task. However, it always creates a new set of .BMP files that you really don't need. I import the .ssa file, define the Scenarist output in another directory and generate the subtitles. I only want to keep the .sst file created, that i move to the directory with my original ripped BMP's.
- The only thing left is to change the addressed BMP filenames in the .sst file. MaestroSBT creates fixed filenames. Use any text editor, and replace the strings (usually "_") to match the original finenames.
- That's all. It's seems a bit tough, but it usually takes less than 5 minutes. However, as I said before, it's just a matter of text file editing, and perhaps there is a more direct procedure I have not found.
If you want more detail, I think we should move this part of the thread to the subtitle forum

Best regards

[sundance]

@tconnectt:
Thanks for your help. Now I'm one step closer to my first home-made DVD. But I still have an issue:
You said I have to drop the m2v-file on the VTS_1 folder that appears in the scenario editor (with a new project that one shows 4 objects: First PGC, VideoManager, Title_1 and VTS_1 with a magenta line from First PGC to Title_1 and a black line from Title_1 to VTS_1).
But: I only get a new black film object (PGC) when I drop it on the Title_1 folder object! Can you confirm that I'm doing right here? (software: Scenarist 2.6.0.0218)
That new object is able to import my 2 audio tracks and I can start the creation of the DVD file structure (which terminates after a few minutes because the total bitrate is too high - guess I have to re-encode my movie again...)

-sundance-

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by sundance
@tconnectt:
Can you confirm that I'm doing right here? (software: Scenarist 2.6.0.0218)
That new object is able to import my 2 audio tracks and I can start the creation of the DVD file structure (which terminates after a few minutes because the total bitrate is too high - guess I have to re-encode my movie again...)

-sundance-

You're following the right way. When you drop the video file, it goes under any of the titles belonging to a VTS. The default is just one title, so the video file will be connected to that one.
About the second question, Scenarist is very strict with DVD maximum bitrate specifications, so I always prefer to encode in CCE with a maximun bitrate of about 8000-8500 in CCE when working with 2 audio streams. This value will depend on the number and bitrate of the audio streams you want to multiplex. CCE usually respects that value (you'd better check it with bitrate viewer), while other encoders, and specially ReMPEG2, produce high bitrate peaks outside DVD specificfations.
Good luck for the final step.

[sundance]

One problem solved ... here's the next.
Have you got a rough estimation how much hard disk capacity is needed for the layout step? Tested it with 9GB on a FAT32 partition and on a network drive and still I get "insufficient disk space" errors.
(Scenarist is running on W2K)

-sundance-

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by sundance
One problem solved ... here's the next.
-sundance-

This one should be easier to solve. According to the Scenarist manual, you should have 3-4 times the size of your original audio/video files, depending if you only want the multiplexed VOB's, or also a DVD image (both in step 3 box). I assume that you will already have the audio/video files (let's say 4Gb total), and if you are following Joseph2 method you don't need any DVD image (uncheck that option), so you will need another 8 Gb. However, you must be very careful with the "mux_data" directory. When you create a project, the first time you try to create the VOB's, creates temporal files to be multiplexed in that directory. Every time you change something in your project, it will create additional new ones, creating a huge useless directory, unless you check the option "Delete when done" in the box "Step 2" of the Layout tab.

[DaSilva]

Bump :)

[DaSilva]

OK
Here's a quick roundup.
I got thru CCE for transcoding the video stream and I have multiplexed the video and the .ac3 file I got from DVD2AVI (haven't tried any subtitles yet, saving that for last).
Now here is the problem :(
Either the audio is out of sync (wich I don't think) or the .ac3 track isn't 6 channels.
It sounds like there is only the rear audio stream (the background sounds).
Also the Dolby Digital led isn't lighted on my DTT3500 receiver, what indicates there's NO real AC3 sound.

What's the best program I can use to strip the audio streams I want into .ac3 and without quality loss (smartripper maybe)?

Thanks again.

[Joseph2]

To DaSilva
I've never had a problem with the audio tracks generated with DVD2AVI. I always get DD signal both in the PC (Power DVD) and in the standalone. Before giving a try to other tools (vstrip or VobEdit), perhaps you could analyze your current AC3 audio tracks with Sonic Foundry Soft Encode, just to be sure everything's right before multiplexing.
Best regards.

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph,

I have been playing around alot with this method, and i think that there is great potential here! Anyway, i wanted to know if you are working with PAL or NTSC movies, and if you are working with an NTSC movie (asumming it is progressive) do u use force film in DVD2AVI to make your d2v file? Just Curious.

Thanks Again,
Jarret

[SkoalWintergreen]

I'm confused on the set the chapter points after the first pass of CCE, right now if I were to try this this would be the steps i would take....

1. Figure the bitrate so I can get the extras on there.

2. stream rip with SmartRipper so I get my Ac3 file and my m2v

3. Pass through DVD2AVI and with forced frames

4. Transcode in CCE, using the set timecode to 0, and the the GOP structure to 3/4 as described in RoboShots guide. (confused on I frame situation and first pass stuff)

5. then I would use pulldown for 29 frames, and then load the ac3 and m2v into Maestro, set my chapter points in Maestro

6. Author the DVD so basically I have nothing but the movie (Does first play matter?)

7. Then use your method with IFOedit and all the info on the new chapter points


Again the most confusing part is what do with your setting in CCE people mention stuff but I don't understand what works and what dosent

[Joseph2]

To Jarret3
All the films I have tried were PAL R2, most of them interlaced.

To SkoalWintergreen
I think your description should work with NTSC films. Some comments:
1) Although this method allows keeping most of the extras, there are some cases that would need a too low bitrate for the movie, even for CCE. As quality counts, I would sacrifice some extras so keep the movie bitrate in the 4000-5000 range. You'd better apply IfoEdit to remove any unwanted stream, and then calculate the bitrate needed.
4) Following Robshot's method, it is better to leave the original film settings unchanged. Use bitrate Viewer and apply the same settings. The only difference is the GOP structure: keep the GOP stucture (usually 3/4), but do not restrict the I frame insertion, to allow CCE to set the chapter points.
6) You only need to multiplex the files, so it doesn't matter if the film is in the first play PGC or in a different title. All the information about links and playing order will be in the new created IFO, that you will not use except to get some information from it.

You can follow all the steps, and you will get a synch movie to replace the original VOB's, but the chapter addresses will be delayed unless you set them in CCE BEFORE the first VBR pass. As I said before in a previous post, if you don't mind keeping these chapter points delayed, then you don't need all the chapters stuff and the method becomes much simpler.

Best regards

[DaSilva]

To Joseph2
I'm at work now so I can't test the audio problem I had but I listened to the AC3 track and I can't hear anything of the main dialogues.
I have set DVD2AVI to Demux All Tracks in Dolby Digital.
Hope to get it right as I'm really close to the end of the process :)

Now for one of the final steps.
You said after multiplexing with Scenarist you manually edit the ifo files with the chapter start and end points.
I have set the chapter points in scenarist and I'm only keeping the main movie, 1 audio track and 3 subtitle tracks without the menu.

Should I do that manual editing to?
Or can I just burn the Scenarit Multiplexed VOB's and IFO's?

[DaSilva]

Woohoow the Audio problem is solved.
Guess what it was my stupid mistake.
I just did a clean reinstall of my windows and forgot to disable my Audigy's onboard AC-3 decoding.
That's why it wasn't plaqying the tracks correctly.

OK I'm off to the subtitles now.
I kept those for last because I'm abit scared of those.

[Coop920]

nvm i figured out my problem :)

Coop

[DaSilva]

OK I hope this is my last question.
Can anyone guide me through the various settings for the subtitle conversions.
I followed your steps Joseph2 (Subrip/Supadjust/MaestroSTB)but I'm getting weird errors in Scenarist when importing the subs so I must be missing something in the various options.

Example:
Error H:\TEST\subs_01.sst is not supported file format.
Info 0 file(s) accepted, 1 file(s) rejected
Info Checking Subtitle File. Stream ID = 1, File = (H:\TEST\subs_01.sst)
Error The display area height should be smaller or equal to 574
Error The display area does not match the pixel area.
Error The display area (Y2) should be smaller than 573.
Error Dimensions dump:
DisplayArea: X1=0, Y1=2, X2=719, Y2=575
PixelArea: Top=0, Bottom=571
SubTitleImage: Width=720, Height=572

Info ********* Error *********

This is my last step so if you could go through the trouble one more time I would be relieved :)

[Coop920]

alright, here's a thing for you guys....i'm multiplexing with scenartist, once it's done...i only get 1 very large vob file and 2 other small files...how can i make it that i get 1 gb vob's and ifo/bup files..

once i get those, all will be good :)

[DaSilva]

There should be a folder with the smaller separated VOB files.
In my case it was folder "0" inside the "remux" folder.
Maybe not in your case but look around.

[Joseph2]

To DaSilva

The display area settings in MaestroSBT depend on the cropping settings you set in Subrip. I usually don't make any cropping, and get the BMP with the whole screen size. In all the cases it's something like:
X1:000 X2:719 Y1:002 Y2:575
There is always a -2 deviation in the vertical size.
In the MaestroSBT, when you fix the output resolution (in my case PAL 720x576, apart from the "Minus 2" box checked, I always have to decrease the vertical from 576 to 574 to work in the Scenarist. I don't know the reason, but this always works.

I see you're near the end ;)
Best regards

[Coop920]

this whole muxing thing is still not working in scenartist :(

still gives me 1 very large vob...