Finally, an IfoEdit/CCE working method

[Joseph2]

This is not a very straightforward method, but it allows to merge CCE-encoded files with IfoEdit-processed menus, titles and extras. I have tried almost every method proposed (included the new Tmpg method included in v0.85) without success. The key of the problem seems to be related with track multiplexing, so the solution I have found is to multiplex with other tool.
These are the main steps in created a totally reauthored DVD backup:
a) Follow Doom9 guides carefully to analyze the DVD, strip streams (audio or subtitles) or any other extra you don't need.
b) Calculate the final video size for the video file to be encoded with CCE in order to fit thr 4.38 Gb of a DVD-R/RW
c) Follow Robshot method to encode with CCE. It should be useful to set chapter/cell frames to be sure you get an "I" frame in the beginning of each cell. However, although I have made several trials including the chapter frames, I have never succeeded in getting the right I frames. There is always a slight difference of 5-10 frames.
d) Multiplex the video with the desired audio and subtitle tracks with any authoring software. I have tried Scenarist, although I suppose that Maestro should also work. The audio tracks have been already decoded in the DVD2AVI step, while the subtitle tracks may be easily moved from the original VOB's to Scenarist via Subrip/Subadjust/MaestroSBT (about 5 minutes each subtitle track through BMP, and avoiding all the OCR stuff).
e) Now the key point: if you just multiplex the files, you will get a collection of working VOB's, with perfectly synch audio, but that do not respect the original chapter points (as the GOP structure has been changed, also the chapter points must be fixed if you want to get a perfect copy). Before multiplexing you must set the cell (not only chapters, but all the cell frames you can get from IfoEdit) in Scenarist. As stated before, Scenarist needs an "I" frame as the beginning of the cell, and CCE usually produces slight differences of 5-10 frames in setting each cell.
f) Multiplex and replace the original VOBS (from VTS_X_01... to VTS_X_NN) with the new Scenarist multiplexed. DO NOT REPLACE THE IFO FILES, because you need the original one. However, keep the multiplexed one in a different place, because you need some information from them.
g) 'Til now everything is quite simple, and it doesn't take much longer than the previous procedure. Now the final and most boring process: you must edit the film IFO file, and look for the PGC_1 area aunder VTS_PGCITI. In each of the cells it is necessary to replace the information about "Playback time", "entry sector", "Start sector" and "End sector" with the values that appear on the multiplexed Scenarist IFO. This will correct the chapter points. As I said before, this is the most boring part, as usually films have near 30 cell information you must copy and paste. Perhaps Derrow can help in this point including a new tool to sync chapters.
h) Save the corrected film IFO and then remember to GET VTS.
i) That's all. You have a perfect working copy with menus, chapters, extras and whatever you want, and with a quality much higher than the obtained with reMPEG og Tmpg. The quality is so good indeed, that you can reencode also the extras and get a complete backup copy of the original DVD with no noticeable difference in quality.

[jarret3]

what do u edit the ifo files with?

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jarret3
what do u edit the ifo files with?

With IfoEdit: you simply double click on the line you want to modify and change the value. When you finish all changes, you save it and that's all. To save some time, I copy the remuxed ifo (copy2clipboard) to an excel file, and copy and paste the required values to the original IFO.

[malzahn]

good work,some questions i have:

most double layered DVDs have a additional cell at the layer changing point, so how can you create a cell without having a chapter in scenarist (that would be necessary for creating a identical chapter /cell structure I guess)? Or any other solution for this problem ?

the vob IDs are kept in the vobs , normally vob ID in the vobs change
with the layer change from 1 to 2, the vobs created from scenarist normally use only one vob ID, doesn't this fact cause problems in navigation afterwards?

regards malzahn

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph i got 2 questions for you.

#1) how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE to be sure you get an "I" frame in the beginning of each cell?

#2) I am a bit confused about setting chapter an cell frames in scenarist. First off if CCE output is off by 5-10 frames then do u need to make up for that when setting them in scenarist? Also where/how do u set the cell points in Scenarist? I was reading up alot in the PDF but couldn't find anything

Thanks Alot,
Jarret

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by malzahn
good work,some questions i have:

the vob IDs are kept in the vobs , normally vob ID in the vobs change
with the layer change from 1 to 2, the vobs created from scenarist normally use only one vob ID, doesn't this fact cause problems in navigation afterwards?

regards malzahn


Most of the films have a single PGC with a collection of cells. The most similar case I have found is when you try to reencode extras with additional scenes and things like that (a single VOB with different Vob-ID's or PGC's). In that case I keep a single VTS but with as many PGC as Vob-ID's required. After setting chapter (cells) I assign them to the corresponding PGC. When you multiplex, you should find them separated in different Vob-Id's.
I hope this can help you.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jarret3
Hey Joseph i got 2 questions for you.

#1) how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE to be sure you get an "I" frame in the beginning of each cell?

#2) I am a bit confused about setting chapter an cell frames in scenarist. First off if CCE output is off by 5-10 frames then do u need to make up for that when setting them in scenarist? Also where/how do u set the cell points in Scenarist? I was reading up alot in the PDF but couldn't find anything

Thanks Alot,
Jarret

#1) In the main menu screen ("Encode settings") and the second box ("input files") you have a "Settings" Button. When you press it a new window with the filename and the number of frames appear. If you double-click on the file a new menu appears, when you can set the encode range and chapter list. Here I set the corresponding cell beginning frames, but usually I always get a slight deviation (the mentioned 5-10 frames).

#2) In Scenarist you should go to the "Track editor" page. Here you find Time scale, video, audio and subpictures for the selected track. At the botton, there is another area called "Scenes". It has a slider you can move to the desired point (or input the timeframe in the top left box). When you have reach the desired point you can use the button or the menu "New Scene". Scenarist will look for the nearest "I" frame to set it as the chapter point. Repeat the procedure for all the desired chapters, and distribute them in the desired order in the scenario editor under the same or different PGC, as required.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by malzahn
good work,some questions i have:

the vob IDs are kept in the vobs , normally vob ID in the vobs change
with the layer change from 1 to 2, the vobs created from scenarist normally use only one vob ID, doesn't this fact cause problems in navigation afterwards?

regards malzahn


Most of the films have a single PGC with a collection of cells. The most similar case I have found is when you try to reencode extras with additional scenes and things like that (a single VOB with different Vob-ID's or PGC's). In that case I keep a single VTS but with as many PGC as Vob-ID's required. After setting chapter (cells) I assign them to the corresponding PGC. When you multiplex, you should find them separated in different Vob-Id's.
I hope this can help you.

[malzahn]

thx Joseph 2,

when I have I little more time I'll test it.

I have a link to a nice little program, which could help you to spare a little time, it creates a scenarist script with the chapters from the original film, all what you need is the CCE 2.50.01.00,the doc is only in German,but the program is very easy to handle.

http://134.102.55.6/cgi-bin/download/dtrack.cgi?rc=dvd

regards malzahn

[tconnectt]

I tried your method with a PAL film without all the chapter / scenes stuff and it worked. The audio/video is synch, and I have access to the scenes from the menu.
Is it really necessary to set up the chapters and make the corrections you suggest in the .IFO?

Best regards

tconnect

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by tconnectt
I tried your method with a PAL film without all the chapter / scenes stuff and it worked. The audio/video is synch, and I have access to the scenes from the menu.
Is it really necessary to set up the chapters and make the corrections you suggest in the .IFO?

Best regards

tconnect

You must have been lucky, and reencoded a film with almost constant GOP structure. If you don't change chapter addresses, the first scenes from the menus will be correctly addressed. As the film goes on, the frame difference between the original chapter points and the rencoded ones will increase. The final difference will depend on how your reencoded GOP structure matches the original one. If you don't mind keeping the right chapter points then you don't need to fix the cell frames, and you may even avoid Scenarist and better use a simpler multiplexer.

Regards

Joseph2

[DaSilva]

Joseph can you do a more in depth explanation of how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE?
It's all quite confusing to me.

Maybe Doom9 can make a guide of your method?
Would be nice since everyone agrees CCE gives the best quality.

Thanks again.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Joseph can you do a more in depth explanation of how do u set chapter/cell frames in CCE?


I tried to explain it in a previous post, but I'm not sure it's quite clear:
#1) In the main menu screen ("Encode settings") and the second box ("input files") you have a "Settings" Button. When you press it a new window with the filename and the number of frames appear. If you double-click on the file a new menu appears ("File settings"), when you can set the encode range and chapter list. To fix a chapter point, type in the desired frame in the "Frame search" box, and then press the "set" button in the "Chapter list" box. The frame will be added to the chapter list.
There is also some information about this menu in the CCE manual in PDF format included with the program (at least in the 2.50 version I use).

However, I have not succeeded in getting an "I" frame in the exact point set in the list, and there is always a slight difference of 5-10 frames. Perhaps it's related with the rest of GOP settings, where I usually fix:
- A GOP pattern similar to the original VOB
- [ ] restrict auto-I frame insertion
- [X] close all GOP
With this settings I usually get a constant GOP structure. I'm not sure if unchecking "close all GOP" it's possible to get the exact desired "I" frame in the cell/chapter point.
Anyway, a 5-10 frames in setting the chapter point is not really important.

I hope this helps
Best regards

[grog]

allo mate - question - I have worked out my required file size and required bitrate - However when I input the average Bitrate into CCE I find it creates an excessive sized file..


I want an average bitrate of 2468
and a filesixe of 390000000o bytes - problem is at 20% of reencoding I have a file of 2 Gig ...

What is wrong..??

Oh yeah this is a LONG film which is why the bitrate is so low (Dasboot)

Thanks in advance...

GROG

[DaSilva]

Well it's me again sorry.

I'm a very NEWBIE :)

U say U use Robshot's method to rencode the video stream.
Do you set the chapter/cell frames before u do the 1st pass or the 2nd?

Also from where in ifoedit do you get the original chapter point information?

This is some info of the movie i'm working with together with a copy and paste of a part of the ifo:
It has 19 chapters and the duration is 2h and 17min (Forrest Gump)

[Ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 17] : time: 00:07:08.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 1593222]
[Ch 17] [Pg 17] [Cell 18] : time: 00:05:39.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:59:40.07] [Frames: 1772729]
[Ch 18] [Pg 18] [Cell 19] : time: 00:10:10.18 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:09:51.00] [Frames: 1967504]
[Ch 19] [Pg 19] [Cell 20] : time: 00:06:26.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:16:17.00] [Frames: 2171929]

So I'm guessing i have to use the frames from here to set the chapter points? So that's a total of 2171929 frames for the whole movie.
But the problem is that in CCE the movie only has 204422 frames!

So either CCE is reporting it wrong, or i'm doing something wrong (i'm guessing it's the second option :o)

In each case thanks for helping me to get where i am now!

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by grog
I want an average bitrate of 2468
and a filesixe of 390000000o bytes - problem is at 20% of reencoding I have a file of 2 Gig ...
GROG

I assume you're following Robshot's method. In the first VBR pass you only want to get the bitrate distribution file (it's something like 2 passes in Nandub DivX), so the size doesn't matter in the first pass. In the second or multipass you always get the exact desired filesize calculated on the advanced tab setting page (at least in my experience).
Best regards
Joseph

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Do you set the chapter/cell frames before u do the 1st pass or the 2nd?
Also from where in ifoedit do you get the original chapter point information?


I see you have the PAL version of the film. Let's take the first chapters of the film:

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 19) (Cells: 20) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:25.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:25.16] [Frames: 9641]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:05:27.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:11:52.17] [Frames: 27458]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:07:13.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:19:06.06] [Frames: 56114]

If you translate the length of each of these 3 chapters (indicated in time) to frames you will get 9641, 8176 and 10839 respectively. So you would need to fix the chapter points in frames
0 (not necessary)
9641
17817 (=9641+8176)
28656 (=17817+10839)
... and so on 'til the end of the total frames of the film.
You can also translate directly the end position of each chapter. Remember that for the total number of frames DVD2AVI files are always a couple of frames lower than the original film.
The frames indicated at the end of each line in the IFO are not real frames (at least in the common sense to compare with CCE). Those values come from these calculations, that I don't understand what's for:
Ch 01: 9641 (=0+9641)
Ch 02: 27458 (=9641+17817)
Ch 03: 56114 (=27458+28656)
You don't need these values in any point of the reencoding process.

Coming back to the CCE encoding process, it's not necessary to fix the chapters in the first pass, only in the final VBR multipass. You can almost change everything from the first pass to the second, because in the first pass you only want to get the bitrate distribution for a defined quality.

Best regards
Joseph2

[jdobbs]

Hmmm.... This last bit seems contrary to the CCE documentation. During the first pass you create the VAF file. According to the User's Guide you must recreate the VAF whenever you set a chapter point, set GOP information, change to/from progressive, scan order, or aspect ratio (see the top of page 25 in the v2.5 manual)????

My experience has been that when you change any of these after the VAF was created, your change is ignored (although I have to admit I haven't tried the chapter change).

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Hmmm.... This last bit seems contrary to the CCE documentation. During the first pass you create the VAF file. According to the User's Guide you must recreate the VAF whenever you set a chapter point, set GOP information, change to/from progressive, scan order, or aspect ratio (see the top of page 25 in the v2.5 manual)????


Yes, you are completely right, if you are going to do a single VBR second pass. I understood that if you do a multipass, you take the information from each pass for the following one, and in that case it would not be so determinant. But I am not a CCE expert, and I may be wrong.

[DaSilva]

Thanks Joseph2 it looks like it's working mow.
I'm @65% of the VBR Multipass operation (doing 5 passes).

So when it's finished i get 3 files:
1)FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.mpv
2)FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.vaf
3)2ND_PASS.ecl

Let's say I want to make a DVD-r just containing the main movie, English Dolby AC3 6CH audio track and 3 Subtitle Streams (Dutch, English and French).
I used ifoedit on this movie to strip the menu's and unwanted audio/subtitle streams and used that result as source to the DVD2AVI - VFAPI - CCE process.

So where do I go from here?
I understand you now have to use Scenarist.
Is it possible to maybe write a quick guide from this point to just before burning the DVD-R (lol that's something i know how to, yippie!)
Because like i said i'm a complete video newbie.
But i pick up some things and after that it's just repeating everything like a monkey does :)

I have been visiting IRC alot to on this project and lot's of people are following your method combined with the Roshot's so congratulations.

And thanks again for going thru all the trouble explaining.

[jdobbs]

Joseph2

I think you're onto something here. I'm playing with it, and I think with a little software support this could be a way to get to the "quality quick-copy" method everyone is looking for. I've been ignoring most of these IFOEdit threads because, let's face it, the quality of the output from ReMPEG2 sucks big time when compared to almost EVERY other encoder.

I'm in the middle of trying this using SpruceUp (it is just so damn simple to use) to create the VOB (after CCE encodes it), SpruceUp is limited to one audio stream, but that's all I ever use.

What I've done in the past is use ChapterXtractor to create a list of chapter start times, and then just mark those points (in SpruceUp)as chapters before multiplexing (creating the VOBs). SpruceUp appears to create one cell per chapter during VOB creation. I just copied the CCE based VOB (minus the VTS_01_0.VOB where menus are typically kept) into the original's VIDEO_TS directory and was surprised to see how much worked as-is (of course the chapters are off). I'm going to go through with IFOEdit now and see what happens.

Hope this method pans out and gets some support from the programmers. Many of us have spent a lot of time copying pieces of menus and reauthoring from scratch just to get some decent quality on my DVD backups...

[grog]

Joseph -

I must be doing something wrong here....

Followed your advice but im still getting HUGE files....

At the moment the display reads - 591,048KB (2.8 Mbps) and this is at 4% of encoding - Surely this cannot be right -

In the advanced settings - the stream info stated that the file would be 3.8 Gig - I dont think this is going to happen at this rate... The average bitrate is set to 2500...

If I am being `Stupid` then please enlighten me :-)



GROG

[DaSilva]

I had that problem to.
I had a expected filesize of 4.100.000.000 and during the encoding it looked like the file would get much bigger.
But after the encoding session the file was even 4.000.000.000 so even smaller than expected.

Hope it's that way to in your case!

[Joseph2]

This thread is getting interesting

To DaSilva
The only file you will need will be FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.mpv, that must be renamed to .m2v to be imported into Scenarist.
I think Doom9 has a very good guide to support the terrible manual that comes with Scenarist. Go to the "MiniDVD Guide Authoring" and read it carefully. As you will not need any menu, only multiplex the files, it will be much simpler. The steps to be done will be:
- Open an standard project with 1 VTS, defining the appropiate AR (usually 16:9) in the assistant.
- Import the .m2v vile created with CCE.
- Add the desired audio streams you created with DVD2AVI (in the same order they appear after stripping undesired audio/subtitle streams with IfoEdit).
- Import the created subpicture streams. As I told in the beginning of the thread, the simplest and fastest method to import the subtitles in Scenarist is Subrip/Subadjust/MaestroSBT. I think in Maestro it is someway easier. In the Subtitles forum/Doom9 guides you can find additional information about these tools.
- Set the cell/chapter points in the created stream.
- Go back to the scenario editor, and put all the scenes under the same PGC following the appropiate order.
- Finally, multiplex and create the .VOB file collection that will replace the original ones.
That's all. Perhaps the first time it looks a bit complicated, but it's only this first time. Good luck.

To jdobbs
The only reason for me to continue using Scenarist is because I want to keep more than 1 AC3 audio stream. If that was not the case, for sure I will use a simpler multiplexer, because Scenarist is one the least friendly tools I have worked with.
I totally agree with you with the fact that when you work with CCE both in speed and quality, you cannot go back to ReMPEG2.
And one of the best thing in this method is that you avoid reauthoring menus. I also agree that some help from the programmers to simplify the final adjustements would be very welcome.

To grog
All my reencodings with CCE have finished with the exact (or slightly lower) desired filesize. Perhaps you have some trouble with your CCE version or hardware/software configuration. Have you found anything similar in the CCE forum?

Best regards
Joseph2

[sundance]

Joseph2,
would you care to give me (us) a more precise description of how to do a basic task (one video and 2 ac3 tracks, no menues) with Scenarist. This application is a real tough one to work with...

-sundance-

[jackjohnson24]

Im a newbie, can someone explain when im using joseph's process to keep the menus and extras how i calculate the desired file size of the movie and the bitrate

[bumblebe]

"let's face it, the quality of the output from ReMPEG2 sucks big time when compared to almost EVERY other encoder. "

It's really not very noticeable at bitrates of 4mbps and above !

[Joseph2]

To jdobbs
I have finally solved the 5-10 frames deviation in the chapter setting. You were completely right: you must fix the chapter points BEFORE doing the first pass in CCE. By doing so you get the chapters/cells in the exact desired point.
Sometimes one should read the manuals more carefully before doing anything...

To sundance
As I said in a previous post, DOOM9 has an excellent guide to begin with Scenarist. Just skip everything related with the menus and links for this method.
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
To do what you propose it's as simple as this:
- Open the program, and in the fist assistant select the desired AR and only 1 VTS (one film)
- The program will open and you will have 4 Tabs. Go to the "Scenario editor" tab. Drag&drop from Windows explorer the video track (.m2v) under the VTS_1 that will appear. Scenarist will import the track after a checking step.
- Click on the imported track, and using the right mouse button you will have access to "Edit Track". This will open the "Track editor" tab with the selected track. Drag&drop the desired audio tracks under the video track in the desired order.
- Go to the last tab "Layout editor". In step 3 click "Create DVD Video" and "Start". This will multiplex your track.
That's all
Perhaps it would be interesting to create an Scenarist independent forum, given the amount of questions arising from this software.

Best regards

[sundance]

Joseph2,

Originally posted by Joseph2
- Click on the imported track, and using the right mouse button you will have access to "Edit Track". This will open the "Track editor" tab with the selected track. Drag&drop the desired audio tracks under the video track in the desired order.


Hope you don't mind if I bother you again...
After importing the video file generated with CCE (btw, which gave me an Error: "Failed to create navigation object") it says "1 file accepted". But: Where do you click on the imported track? None of the context menues I found gave me an "Edit Track" option.

-sundance-

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by sundance
Joseph2,
After importing the video file generated with CCE (btw, which gave me an Error: "Failed to create navigation object") it says "1 file accepted". But: Where do you click on the imported track? None of the context menues I found gave me an "Edit Track" option.
-sundance-

The track should appear on the scenario editor under the VTS_1. If it is accepted, but not appear as a navigation object perhaps there was an error in that step. Did you drag & drop exactly over the VTS? You can try to import it again, but as it was already accepted, the track will be in your project. Navigate through the track explorer (right lower corner) 'til you find it and drag & drop it again over the VTS. When it is accepted on the scenario, a new black PGC with the film will appear under the VTS. Then you will be able to edit the track.
Good luck

[DaSilva]

Finally I'm getting there.
It looks like CCE is gaining VERY much in popularity!!!
Actually there's no alternative since we are working with DVD's here so quality DOES matter why settle for less :)

I still have a few questions though.
It looks like Scenarist is a bit too complicated and since i'm only keeping one audio track i guess SpruceUp will do fine, right?

About the subtitle tracks (i usually keep 3 of them).
Can I just rip them from smartripper and use em like that?
If not can you please post the quick steps of how to make em ready for use in SpruceUp or Scenarist?
You already explained the apps u used but if possible a little more "in depth".

This thread is starting to get a COMPLETE DVD to DVD-r with CCE (newbie) GUIDE! All we have to do is just add the pictures :)

Nice work ... all of you guys!!!

[Joseph2]

1) I don't know if SpruceUp can handle 3 subtitles. Perhaps someone can give more information about that. In my case I usually keep a couble of AC3 audio tracks + 1/2 subtitles. This reduces very much the number of available tools, specially if you wanna deal with chapter points. I thought that in this case only Maestro and Scenarist could be used, but I may be wrong. And talking about Scenarist, it's really hard if you wanna deal with menus and links, but if you only wanna multiplex, it's difficult only the first time.

2) I have gone through the subtitles forum, and AFAIK there is no way to import directly the subtitles (another task to be done for the wonderful software programmers in this area). Although most people prefer subtitle OCR, my experience in this field is not very good, because OCR don't work properly with subtitles in italic. I made some trials, and finally I developed a new and fast method that always work (at least for me). Very briefly, the steps would be:
- Ripp the subtitles with Subrip (I use 0.97 version). Select the desired language and create the .BMP subtitles.
- Export them in .srt format
- Now the only thing left is to modify the text .srt file to be compliant with Scenarist. It's just to modify the header and the structure and should be easily done in one step. I'm too lazy to program it myself so I use a couple of tricks
- Convert the .srt to .ssa with Subadjust. This will change the structure, but not the header.
- The final step is to create the Scenarist header. MaestroSBT is the only tool I have found for this task. However, it always creates a new set of .BMP files that you really don't need. I import the .ssa file, define the Scenarist output in another directory and generate the subtitles. I only want to keep the .sst file created, that i move to the directory with my original ripped BMP's.
- The only thing left is to change the addressed BMP filenames in the .sst file. MaestroSBT creates fixed filenames. Use any text editor, and replace the strings (usually "_") to match the original finenames.
- That's all. It's seems a bit tough, but it usually takes less than 5 minutes. However, as I said before, it's just a matter of text file editing, and perhaps there is a more direct procedure I have not found.
If you want more detail, I think we should move this part of the thread to the subtitle forum

Best regards

[sundance]

@tconnectt:
Thanks for your help. Now I'm one step closer to my first home-made DVD. But I still have an issue:
You said I have to drop the m2v-file on the VTS_1 folder that appears in the scenario editor (with a new project that one shows 4 objects: First PGC, VideoManager, Title_1 and VTS_1 with a magenta line from First PGC to Title_1 and a black line from Title_1 to VTS_1).
But: I only get a new black film object (PGC) when I drop it on the Title_1 folder object! Can you confirm that I'm doing right here? (software: Scenarist 2.6.0.0218)
That new object is able to import my 2 audio tracks and I can start the creation of the DVD file structure (which terminates after a few minutes because the total bitrate is too high - guess I have to re-encode my movie again...)

-sundance-

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by sundance
@tconnectt:
Can you confirm that I'm doing right here? (software: Scenarist 2.6.0.0218)
That new object is able to import my 2 audio tracks and I can start the creation of the DVD file structure (which terminates after a few minutes because the total bitrate is too high - guess I have to re-encode my movie again...)

-sundance-

You're following the right way. When you drop the video file, it goes under any of the titles belonging to a VTS. The default is just one title, so the video file will be connected to that one.
About the second question, Scenarist is very strict with DVD maximum bitrate specifications, so I always prefer to encode in CCE with a maximun bitrate of about 8000-8500 in CCE when working with 2 audio streams. This value will depend on the number and bitrate of the audio streams you want to multiplex. CCE usually respects that value (you'd better check it with bitrate viewer), while other encoders, and specially ReMPEG2, produce high bitrate peaks outside DVD specificfations.
Good luck for the final step.

[sundance]

One problem solved ... here's the next.
Have you got a rough estimation how much hard disk capacity is needed for the layout step? Tested it with 9GB on a FAT32 partition and on a network drive and still I get "insufficient disk space" errors.
(Scenarist is running on W2K)

-sundance-

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by sundance
One problem solved ... here's the next.
-sundance-

This one should be easier to solve. According to the Scenarist manual, you should have 3-4 times the size of your original audio/video files, depending if you only want the multiplexed VOB's, or also a DVD image (both in step 3 box). I assume that you will already have the audio/video files (let's say 4Gb total), and if you are following Joseph2 method you don't need any DVD image (uncheck that option), so you will need another 8 Gb. However, you must be very careful with the "mux_data" directory. When you create a project, the first time you try to create the VOB's, creates temporal files to be multiplexed in that directory. Every time you change something in your project, it will create additional new ones, creating a huge useless directory, unless you check the option "Delete when done" in the box "Step 2" of the Layout tab.

[DaSilva]

Bump :)

[DaSilva]

OK
Here's a quick roundup.
I got thru CCE for transcoding the video stream and I have multiplexed the video and the .ac3 file I got from DVD2AVI (haven't tried any subtitles yet, saving that for last).
Now here is the problem :(
Either the audio is out of sync (wich I don't think) or the .ac3 track isn't 6 channels.
It sounds like there is only the rear audio stream (the background sounds).
Also the Dolby Digital led isn't lighted on my DTT3500 receiver, what indicates there's NO real AC3 sound.

What's the best program I can use to strip the audio streams I want into .ac3 and without quality loss (smartripper maybe)?

Thanks again.

[Joseph2]

To DaSilva
I've never had a problem with the audio tracks generated with DVD2AVI. I always get DD signal both in the PC (Power DVD) and in the standalone. Before giving a try to other tools (vstrip or VobEdit), perhaps you could analyze your current AC3 audio tracks with Sonic Foundry Soft Encode, just to be sure everything's right before multiplexing.
Best regards.

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph,

I have been playing around alot with this method, and i think that there is great potential here! Anyway, i wanted to know if you are working with PAL or NTSC movies, and if you are working with an NTSC movie (asumming it is progressive) do u use force film in DVD2AVI to make your d2v file? Just Curious.

Thanks Again,
Jarret

[SkoalWintergreen]

I'm confused on the set the chapter points after the first pass of CCE, right now if I were to try this this would be the steps i would take....

1. Figure the bitrate so I can get the extras on there.

2. stream rip with SmartRipper so I get my Ac3 file and my m2v

3. Pass through DVD2AVI and with forced frames

4. Transcode in CCE, using the set timecode to 0, and the the GOP structure to 3/4 as described in RoboShots guide. (confused on I frame situation and first pass stuff)

5. then I would use pulldown for 29 frames, and then load the ac3 and m2v into Maestro, set my chapter points in Maestro

6. Author the DVD so basically I have nothing but the movie (Does first play matter?)

7. Then use your method with IFOedit and all the info on the new chapter points


Again the most confusing part is what do with your setting in CCE people mention stuff but I don't understand what works and what dosent

[Joseph2]

To Jarret3
All the films I have tried were PAL R2, most of them interlaced.

To SkoalWintergreen
I think your description should work with NTSC films. Some comments:
1) Although this method allows keeping most of the extras, there are some cases that would need a too low bitrate for the movie, even for CCE. As quality counts, I would sacrifice some extras so keep the movie bitrate in the 4000-5000 range. You'd better apply IfoEdit to remove any unwanted stream, and then calculate the bitrate needed.
4) Following Robshot's method, it is better to leave the original film settings unchanged. Use bitrate Viewer and apply the same settings. The only difference is the GOP structure: keep the GOP stucture (usually 3/4), but do not restrict the I frame insertion, to allow CCE to set the chapter points.
6) You only need to multiplex the files, so it doesn't matter if the film is in the first play PGC or in a different title. All the information about links and playing order will be in the new created IFO, that you will not use except to get some information from it.

You can follow all the steps, and you will get a synch movie to replace the original VOB's, but the chapter addresses will be delayed unless you set them in CCE BEFORE the first VBR pass. As I said before in a previous post, if you don't mind keeping these chapter points delayed, then you don't need all the chapters stuff and the method becomes much simpler.

Best regards

[DaSilva]

To Joseph2
I'm at work now so I can't test the audio problem I had but I listened to the AC3 track and I can't hear anything of the main dialogues.
I have set DVD2AVI to Demux All Tracks in Dolby Digital.
Hope to get it right as I'm really close to the end of the process :)

Now for one of the final steps.
You said after multiplexing with Scenarist you manually edit the ifo files with the chapter start and end points.
I have set the chapter points in scenarist and I'm only keeping the main movie, 1 audio track and 3 subtitle tracks without the menu.

Should I do that manual editing to?
Or can I just burn the Scenarit Multiplexed VOB's and IFO's?

[DaSilva]

Woohoow the Audio problem is solved.
Guess what it was my stupid mistake.
I just did a clean reinstall of my windows and forgot to disable my Audigy's onboard AC-3 decoding.
That's why it wasn't plaqying the tracks correctly.

OK I'm off to the subtitles now.
I kept those for last because I'm abit scared of those.

[Coop920]

nvm i figured out my problem :)

Coop

[DaSilva]

OK I hope this is my last question.
Can anyone guide me through the various settings for the subtitle conversions.
I followed your steps Joseph2 (Subrip/Supadjust/MaestroSTB)but I'm getting weird errors in Scenarist when importing the subs so I must be missing something in the various options.

Example:
Error H:\TEST\subs_01.sst is not supported file format.
Info 0 file(s) accepted, 1 file(s) rejected
Info Checking Subtitle File. Stream ID = 1, File = (H:\TEST\subs_01.sst)
Error The display area height should be smaller or equal to 574
Error The display area does not match the pixel area.
Error The display area (Y2) should be smaller than 573.
Error Dimensions dump:
DisplayArea: X1=0, Y1=2, X2=719, Y2=575
PixelArea: Top=0, Bottom=571
SubTitleImage: Width=720, Height=572

Info ********* Error *********

This is my last step so if you could go through the trouble one more time I would be relieved :)

[Coop920]

alright, here's a thing for you guys....i'm multiplexing with scenartist, once it's done...i only get 1 very large vob file and 2 other small files...how can i make it that i get 1 gb vob's and ifo/bup files..

once i get those, all will be good :)

[DaSilva]

There should be a folder with the smaller separated VOB files.
In my case it was folder "0" inside the "remux" folder.
Maybe not in your case but look around.

[Joseph2]

To DaSilva

The display area settings in MaestroSBT depend on the cropping settings you set in Subrip. I usually don't make any cropping, and get the BMP with the whole screen size. In all the cases it's something like:
X1:000 X2:719 Y1:002 Y2:575
There is always a -2 deviation in the vertical size.
In the MaestroSBT, when you fix the output resolution (in my case PAL 720x576, apart from the "Minus 2" box checked, I always have to decrease the vertical from 576 to 574 to work in the Scenarist. I don't know the reason, but this always works.

I see you're near the end ;)
Best regards

[Coop920]

this whole muxing thing is still not working in scenartist :(

still gives me 1 very large vob...

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph, it your friendly neighborhood PITA again, i was just wondering when i am setting the chapter/cells in scenarist, i set the time in the top on the top left, and then click new scene, but how do I tell Scenarist whether it is a chpater time or a cell time?

Thanks,
Jarret

[DaSilva]

OK.
In the LAYOUT EDITOR TAB you have to set 3 directories:
- Target Dir
- DVD Root Dir
- Mux Dir

There where you set the DVD Root Dir you will get your 1GB vob's
In the Mux Dir you you get the big VOB.

To Joseph2
Thanks I got the subtitles in Scenarist now but yet I have another problem.
Whenever a subtitle displays it fills the whole picture.
So I get a complete RED picture with Blue Subs although I've set them as Black background with White subs.
Should I fix this is Subrip, MaestroSTB or Scenarist?

Thanks AGAIN :), and sorry for being such a pain in the ass.

[jarret3]

hey Dasilva can u come on irc?

[jarret3]

Hey Joseph, we need to get you to come into a chat, me and coop are very close to having the entire method down pat, but we have a few question we need you to clear up for us. And with your permisson we would like to write a complete guide, so everyone could share in this great method.

Thanks,
Jarret

[Joseph2]

To DaSilva
It seems you're having problems with subtitle colours. The solution depends on if you're getting the problems before or after placing the new VOB's in the original directory.
a) Before moving the VOB's. Play the multiplexed track with PowerDVD, and look what happens. If the problem continues, you have not correctly set the subtitle colours in Scenarist. Edit the track again, click the required subtitle, and apply "change colour" in the menu. here you should apply the original colours (Usually white for the text, black/gray for the border, and any colour in the background (but always with a 0% in it). Remux again.
b) The colours are correct in a), but change when moving to the ripped directory. The colour information is in the IFO file, which you don't move. If the colours don't match, the colour palettes used in Scenarist and in the original film do not correspond. Edit both IFOS and copy the colour pattern to the original IFO. This will solve the problem.

To Jarret3
In Scenarist you do not have to set chapter/cell. Scenarist only sets scenes. It's the original IFO file which has the information concerning about if the scene is only a cell change, or also a chapter change. Usually the number of chapters and cells is the same, but sometimes happens that a chapter has not one but two cells. That's the reason to set not chapters, but cells, to have the same information that appears in the original IFO.
I think that you have most of the information in this thread to write a guide, that could be complemented with information appeareded in other threads and forums
Good luck.

Best regards

[jarret3]

So let me get this straight, all i need to do in Scenarist is to set all the scenes to match all the cell points i get from the original ifo and i will be fine? Then edit the original ifo to that of the multiplexed one?

[DaSilva]

OK I got the subtitle problem figured out :)
I multiplexed the whole bunch.
Then I used ifoedit to gt the vts sectors and then i burned the whole new scenarist ifo and vob set to dvd-r.

But then again problem :( (lol)
It plays in my standalone but when t reches a new chapter it quits.
I also can't skip to the next chapter although I've set then in Scenarist and in CCE.
I've checked the new vts_01_0.ifo and it doesn't state chapters but cells.

Example of the original ifo:
PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 12) (Cells: 13) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:05:01.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:05:01.14] [Frames: 7539]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:07:42.20 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:12:44.09] [Frames: 26648]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:10:10.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:22:54.20] [Frames: 61018]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:06:05.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:28:59.24] [Frames: 104517]

And this is the Scenarist ifo:

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:05:01.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:05:01.16] [Frames: 7541]

PGC_2 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 02] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:07:42.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:07:42.17] [Frames: 11567]

PGC_3 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 03] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:10:10.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:10:10.14] [Frames: 15264]

PGC_4 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 04] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:05.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:05.01] [Frames: 9126]

PGC_5 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 05] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:09:32.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:09:32.00] [Frames: 14300]

You see my problem?
As i said before I'm doing a movie only.
No menu's 1 audio track and 1 subitle stream.

[Joseph2]

To Jarret3
That's right. Set the scenes, multiplex, replace old VOB's with new ones, and correct the values in the original IFO file addresing cells with the new ones. Do not replace original IFO file because you will lose all the links with the rest of the DVD. That's all.

To DaSilva
I see you don't have all the cells under the same PGC, as in the original movie. I suppose you have gone in detail through the excellent Doom9's guide about Scenarist (miniDVD guide)
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
Aftar setting the chapters, and putting them under the same PGC with the appropiate order you should have something similar to the image. If you don't, that maybe the problem, because as you have not defined links between the PGC's, only the first chapter will be played.
I hope your trials have been on a DVD-RW. Good luck.

[Joseph2]

To Doom9
1) Some tricks when working with complex VOB structures (different VOB-Id's, logos, etc.).
The method is really the same. You have to reproduce with Scenarist the same PGC structure that appears in the IFO file. That is, if you have different VOB ID's, you will see their PGC order in the IFO file
(the order position in the VOB, not the playing order, that maybe different) and the corresponding number of frames to separate them. Set in CCE not only the chapter/cell frames, but also these frames. Reencode, set all the scenes in Scenarist and distribute them in PGC's with the same structure. Multiplex, replace VOB's and copy the new cell addresses to the original IFO file, as always. That's all. This method always works.
Perhaps it maybe a simpler method, and it's not necessary to reproduce all the PGC's stuff, as you only require the new cell addresses, but I haven't tested it.

2) You must set scenes for all the cells, and not only the chapters. If you look ant the PGC_1 area under VTS_PGCITI in the IFO file, you will see that all the cells have their own information, and it doesn't matter if they are chapters or not. This is the information you have to update, so you need to set all the cells. If you fix the cells, the chapters are fixed by themselves.

I hope this helps to solve most of the problems.

As I have said through the thread this is my experience, and perhaps there maybe simpler of better methods for some of the steps, as it has been demonstrated (remember the method to correct the position of the I frames). I hope there will be many improvements.

Best regards

[Doom9]

one thing you didn't answer ;)

is it possible to have one single m2v file but create multiple PGCs from it? Like PGC1 goes from 0:00:00 to 1:05:32 and PGC2 from 1:05:32 to the end of the movie.. or do you actually have to split?

I have a movie already encoded with only chapter positions.. it has 1 cell more than chapters because it's a regular dual layer Warner flick so the stuff after the layer change is in another VOB ID. However, I have no DVD burner to test for real... using WinDVD and PowerDVD to test may not be enough in this case.

[Joseph2]

To Doom9
I always divide the single .m2v you get from CCE in PGC's, not in VOB-ID's. Sometimes I have found films with more than a single VOB-ID, but even in those cases all of them appear under the same PGC in the IFO file.
But (there is always a but) there have been a few cases I couldn't use a single .m2v file to do the multiplexing. For example, in 'The Mexican' I wanted to keep some of the extras, including 8 additional scenes. I did with the common method (a single .m2v for the VOB with 8 PGC's inside). Everything was OK 'til the 6th scene, in which there was a slight out of synch. As I'm a bit perfectionist, I wanted to solve it, and the only solution I found was to divide the original VOB in the 8 smaller VOB's, reencode each one separately and then multiplex them together inside Scenarist. I suppose the reason was that in the 4-5th scene the audio was slightly shorter than the video. This problem may appear in some cases when you have non seamless play between the PGC's because they have really been multiplexed from different tracks.
Appart from these special cases, I always use a single .m2v file.
I hope this helps
Best regards

[Doom9]

okay.. you've just answered that it is possible to have multiple PGCs for a single .m2v but how exactly would you do that? I'm guessing that this is the point where most people are having problems.. when I first read it.. the only thing unclear was the cells.. if you had written from the beginning that you set scene in the scenarist scenario editor wherever there's a cell in the original VOB that would've been clear (but as it was not got a lot of people confused and they came to me for help)..

So.. how do I create multiple PGCs for a single .m2v in scenarist step by step?

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by Doom9
So.. how do I create multiple PGCs for a single .m2v in scenarist step by step?

I don't understand your question. You already have it in your Scenarist Guide, Step 3.
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
- Set scenes in the track editor
- When you set the scenes, a collection of scenes is created (in your guide, look at the image matrix_1-t_1-scn-cell, ..._1-cell, ..._n-cell. They appear in the scenario editor, in the right lower area of the screeen (tracks).
- Just create as many PGC's under the VTS and drag&drop the scenes in the desired order under the desired PGC. If you put them in the original order, the playing will be always seamless.
Perhaps I have not understood your question correctly, and my answer may look stupid.

[Doom9]

@tconnectt: no, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. My Scenarist knowhow has become a bit rusty since I haven't used the prog for more than a year and right now I'm too busy with codecs to try this out by myself.. but I guess with these answers everybody else should be able to implement this method

[jdobbs]

Joseph2

Good thread. Good work.

Thanks.

[DaSilva]

Thanks all of U guys.
My movie only project works now :)
Picture is PERFECT!!!

[jarret3]

Agreed, method works great, great thread.

I am working on a complete guide right now, as soon as i get some more time i will have it finished and i will give it to Doom to put up on the site.

Thanks,
Jarret

[icon]

Hey guys,

I used the new CCE2.5 encoding method for frameserving, using it in place of the ReMpeg/TMPEG section in Doom9's DVD guides. I applied this to just the striped main movie with one ac3 audio track. I have already fixed the ifo file in ifoedit. I then proceeded to framserve and encode the movie so it will now fit on a disc. I had already imported the chapter numbers to CCE. Then I used Ifoedit to remux the cce movie to the vobs. I never touched the audio. I then VTSed the ifos in ifoedit. When I burned to rw, the movie played very choppy both the audio and video. The chapter points seem to work, but there was more chapters than movie. When I ran these vobs from my hd, the movie played and sounded a better, but was still having some sluggish issues. I'm still a little new to this method, so I was hoping for some help. The point was to fix the vobs with the cce encoded video, so no reauthoring has to be done. I can say when I view the cce encoded file, it looks perfect and plays flawless. Therefore, I don't know if it the remuxing part in ifoedit or what. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I was not using the most recent copy of ifoedit. Thanks,

ICON

[DaSilva]

Hello Icon,

you can't use Ifoedit (for now) to remux the cce created .m2v file.
You have to read this complete thread.
I'm a very newbie and I followd this thread and it works even for me :)

Good luck!

[Derrow]

Originally posted by Joseph2

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 19) (Cells: 20) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:25.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:25.16] [Frames: 9641]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:05:27.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:11:52.17] [Frames: 27458]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:07:13.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:19:06.06] [Frames: 56114]

If you translate the length of each of these 3 chapters (indicated in time) to frames you will get 9641, 8176 and 10839 respectively. So you would need to fix the chapter points in frames
0 (not necessary)
9641
17817 (=9641+8176)
28656 (=17817+10839)
... and so on 'til the end of the total frames of the film.
You can also translate directly the end position of each chapter. Remember that for the total number of frames DVD2AVI files are always a couple of frames lower than the original film.
The frames indicated at the end of each line in the IFO are not real frames (at least in the common sense to compare with CCE). Those values come from these calculations, that I don't understand what's for:


Indeed, there's a bug in IfoEdit!
I've added the total time to the last frames, instead of cell time.

Why did nobody reported a bug in there, to me? I've could already have fixed this.

Next release will show you the right number of frames!

[icon]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Hello Icon,

you can't use Ifoedit (for now) to remux the cce created .m2v file.
You have to read this complete thread.
I'm a very newbie and I followd this thread and it works even for me :)

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I read the whole thread prior to my post, I didn't see anything about not remuxing with ifoedit. I must have been half a sleep. I take it there is no way currently to remux the cce video back to the vobs. Meaning that the audio has to be demuxed and then we will have to author the video and audio into a dvd. I think this is probably the case since this thread mostly talks about authoring the cce file. Just curious, does anyone know why remuxing with ifoedit doesn't work with cce or why it works with a ReMpeg/Tmpeg video file. Thanks,

ICON

[psyduck]

Hi,

[Eyes`Only]

All those that are involved in this post are requested to look at my separate post titled "CCE and IfoEdit Guide Problem" at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=99559 to see if you can offer any information on why my chapters are not coming out correctly.

Joseph2: This request is especially for you. You said that when you set your chapters in the first pass of CCE everything worked perfect? When I try it they seem off by a couple of frames. Can you help?

Thanks in advance

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by Eyes`Only
All those that are involved in this post are requested to look at my separate post titled "CCE and IfoEdit Guide Problem" at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=99559 to see if you can offer any information on why my chapters are not coming out correctly.

Joseph2: This request is especially for you. You said that when you set your chapters in the first pass of CCE everything worked perfect? When I try it they seem off by a couple of frames. Can you help?

Thanks in advance

Sorry for not answering before.
I think your problem can be relate with the GOP structure you fix in CCE settings. It seems that you are not getting the required frames, and Scenarist looks for the nearest 'I' in your track. That is the origin of your problem: you don't get the 'I' frames in the right position because you are probably restricting CCE to do so. The settings should be:
- The same (or similar) GOP structure than the original film
- DO NOT RESTRICT I frame insertion (box unchecked)
- Close GOP (this is not determining, and I usually have it checked).
- And the most important thing (that was one of my first errors) is to set the chapter frames BEFORE doing the first CCE pass.
If you have failed in any of those settings, you must do the first pass again.

To Doom9
Thanks for your hard work in compiling the thread in an excellent guide.
Just a question for PAL encoding: I have not succeeded in converting subtitles to Scenarist PAL format with S3conv. The only output resolution available is NTSC. Is that a bug or it's only my problem?

Best regards

[Eyes`Only]

Joseph2,

I have fulfilled all those requirements except for Close GOP. I set the chapters before the first pass (earlier in this post it was pointed out that that needed to be done, and i heeded the warning), didn't restrict I-frames, and I set the n/m at 3/4, like the guide says to do. I assume this creates a similar GOP structure? I entered in all the chapters according to what ChapterXtractor shows.

Did my not setting Close GOP cause my symptoms?

I figured that CCE is not setting the I-frames properly. But actually I do get really close if not dead-on when i adjust the times ahead. ie. the I-frame i need is there, it's just not at the point that the timecode from Ifoedit says it should be. If i guess around a bit I can usually find the correct I-frame timecode, but it takes an exasperating amount of effort to find 28+ of these by guesswork!

[Doom9]

@joseph2: I've only tested NTSC sources.. I'll give a pal title a spin.. hope I took a pal disc with me (I'm back at school.. the largest part of my DVD collection is at my parent's place).

[DaSilva]

Hya me again :),

i have reencoded a few movies now using CCE and multiplexed them with Scenarist so far no problem.
Now I have reencoded Forrest Gump using exactly the same settings as shown in the guide (for the 2nd pass AVG Bitrate:5760 MIN Bitrate:0000 MAX Bitrate:9800).
Only now when I try to multiplex with Scenarist it gives me the following error:
Info Multiplexing VOB Main Stream
Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 77019054, SCR 77019140)
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (forrest_gump.scn-video_d2v-vfapi-t_t.vob).
Error Total bitrate is too HIGH. Please reduce the stream bitrate or the number of stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.

Anyone an idea to solve this problem?
I asked before and then they said to lower the max bitrate but then someone else replied it wouldn't work in my standalone anymore if i did that.

Thanks.

[tconnectt]

Originally posted by DaSilva
Hya me again :),

Now I have reencoded Forrest Gump using exactly the same settings as shown in the guide (for the 2nd pass AVG Bitrate:5760 MIN Bitrate:0000 MAX Bitrate:9800).
I asked before and then they said to lower the max bitrate but then someone else replied it wouldn't work in my standalone anymore if i did that.

Thanks.

I always set MIN=2000 and MAX=8500 and I have never had a problem in my standalone. Sometimes even CCE gives a peak outside DVD specifications. If you set MAX=9800, you have a high probability of getting a peak of 10-10500, that added to the audio tracks will be outside DVD specifications (analyze your track with bitrate viewer to see if this is happening). To be on the safe side I prefer to set MAX below 9000, and I have never had a problem.

[jackjohnson24]

Joseph2, in u're first post, i thought those steps were showing how to re-encode a dvd so u can keep the menus and extras, which is basically making a complete back up of the movie. At the end of the post u said that u can also re-encode the extras to make a complete backup of the dvd. That confused me, i thought the steps listed were to make a complete backup since u're keeping the menus and extras. Also, how would a movie like Braveheart which is like 3 hours long look if u wanted to re-encode it and keep the menus and extras. It would probaly need a real low bitrate.

[Joseph2]

To Jackjohnson24
Both alternatives can be possible. It depends on the movie and your acceptable quality. If you don't reduce the bitrate of the extras there are some cases in which the quality of the movie wil be considerably reduced. As a rule of thumb I usually try not to go under 4000 b/s for 2 hour movies. This often required to strip or reencode some extras. However, as an example, I did Pearl Harbor (3 hour) with 2400 b/s, and the result was astonishing.
You'd better make some trials to fix your quality limit and then decide if you prefer to keep all the extras untouched.

[jackjohnson24]

Thanks 4 the reply joseph2. Um, how do u go about re-encoding the extras. The extras arent mpeg2 like a movie right?

[Eyes`Only]

It seems to me that the only logical answer is that when I use dvd2avi-->vfapi-->cce-->pulldown(i only have NTSC DVDs) I end up modifying the structure to make chapter correction almost impossible. Does this method involving pulldown add extra frames? Is there any way that I can change the configuration on one of the steps I'm doing to get the correct structure?

[ello]

question for Joseph2


wn I was reading some franch and US Board, i notice that some people ahve problems with your method when using noname, princo, vivastar DVDR in standalone ( in facts in no pioneer standalone)? Some says that when you use pioneer, apple, tdk media ther is no problem
Th e problem is
" when play some off my backups.
In the beginning is all ok, but after a few chapters, in about 70 % of my backups the film starts to freeze, it happens in my standalone (Loewe, tokai, mustec) and in another ones (Nintaus, Philips, Sony).
I think that maybe the problem is on Princo or on my burning program.
I have the images of my backups on my HD, and I try to burn another time the ones that give me problems in some cases all becomes fine.
So I try to have some conclusion on that.

Personnaly, i used noname cd for svcd creation and i have no problem. I think it must be the same with noname dvd r
With your experience, i think you haved burned many and many DVD R, so my question is What do you think.

Thanks


PS sorry for my englinsh, i am a french man ;)

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jackjohnson24
Thanks 4 the reply joseph2. Um, how do u go about re-encoding the extras. The extras arent mpeg2 like a movie right?

The extras are also mpeg2 movies, but sometimes with a more complex structure (take a look at the corresponding .IFO file). This method can be applied exactly in the same way for extras, even being more agressive lowering the bitrate. I usually encode the extras I want to keep at 2000-2500 kb/s, with acceptable results in most cases.

To ello
Listen what people told you in your thread, specially mikeathome
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20287
Only Pioneer/Apple give almost guaranteed results in most standalones. If you're gonna play your DVD's in a PC, then you can use cheaper brands.

[jdobbs]

Joseph2,

Thanks for the hard work on this thread. Using your methods I've found that I can make copies of virtually anything with only a few minor changes here and there.

Just wanted to add some input for the benefit of those who like to keep things simple... I use this method using SpruceUp as the authoring package. Since SpruceUp consistently creates VOBs that have a 1:1 ratio of cells to chapters it makes it possible to easily create a VOB set, then cut-and-paste chapter information (starting at the PGC Program Map offset) from the SpruceUp generated IFO directly into the original. Then just running Get_VTS_Sectors fixes everything up -- and the title set is ready to go for burning using SpruceUp.

This saves a lot of effort in the authoring and relieves the manual editing. It has limitations, though:

1. SpruceUp burns the output fine, but Prassi seems to choke on the resulting title set. Haven't seen any problems with my standalone yet, though.
2. Only one AC3 audio track (that's all I ever need).
3. No subtitles (also all I ever need).

jdobbs

[SAT4N]

Hi all, I've read this whole thread and still dont see the answer I'm looking for. After authoring with Maestro I get 18 chapters with 1 cell per chapter in the new IFO. I need to copy/paste those frame points into the original IFO that ifoedit created, but theres 2 or 3 cells per chapter. What should I do with these extra cells?

[Derrow]

This is a problem then.

I think, IfoEdit needs a button to merge the Menu of another IFO file into the current loaded.
This should fix your problems.

[SAT4N]

Sounds good to me :) Is there a way to manually add chapters? Because I used your guide to create a new IFO which works for this movie but only has 1 chapter.

[Derrow]

Not yet.

But I hope to implement deleting/adding chapters, soon.

[jarret3]

Sat4n,

You are a bit confused. If you read the post throughly you would know that you are supposed to keep the structure of the original IFOs when you multiplex. Therefore, since you are using Maestro you need to set punch points at the begining and end of each of the chapters you want multiple cells in, and put the cells in between the punch points. This gets a bit complicated in Maestro, but it is fairly simple in Scenarist, since it gives you a structure diagram. If you don't know how to use Scenarist for this method, Doom wrote a great article on how to do it. All you are doing is creating chapter points, you are forgetting u also need to do the cells, or it wont work! Hope that helps a bit.

Ohh yeah and Derrow how do u plan on merging the menu from one IFO to another? It sounds really cool, but will it in fact work? Since in reality all your doing is copying a structure instead of multiplexing new ones. Therefore would things match up? I know if anyone can do it you can Derrow :)

[SAT4N]

jarret3, thanks for the repsonse. That makes perfect sense and I guess I just missed that part of the guide because I never saw anything about punch points. I will try it in Scenarist now!

[jarret3]

Yeah, the post doesn't really explain how to do the method in Maestro, and i wouldn't recommomend that you try and learn it for your first time. Just follow Doom's guide on Scenarist under the CCE/IFOEdit method, you should be fine.

Jarret

[jdobbs]

As long as the number of Chapters is correct, and the destination has at least as much space dedicated to PGC (so you don't overwrite something) you can just cut and paste the entire block of data (using HEXEDIT) starting at the point (in the VTS_PGC) that IFOEdit labels "PGC Program Map" (remember to consider the offset for the VTS_PGCI header) and ending at the last byte of the PGC in the source -- then you will also be pasting the Cell/Chapter relationships as well as the items outlined in Joseph2 and Doom9's guide. You can change the number of cells at address offset 3.

It can sometimes, though, get problematic on destination IFOs that have multiple PGCs, but I've still made it work. The HEX mode of Windows Calculator comes in handy for sizing the destination paste.

[Derrow]

Originally posted by jarret3
Ohh yeah and Derrow how do u plan on merging the menu from one IFO to another? It sounds really cool, but will it in fact work? Since in reality all your doing is copying a structure instead of multiplexing new ones. Therefore would things match up? I know if anyone can do it you can Derrow :)

Well the IFO file containes different tables for the TitleSet (Movie) and the menu.
So I thought it should work perfect, if I just merge the tables containing the Menu information to the new IFO.

BTW: Have a look at my new page:
http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/Derrow/ifovts.html

It's a small IFO file specifiaction.

[jarret3]

OHH, I think i was a bit confused before. So u mean u would copy the menu info over to the multiplexed ifo files, right? Such as the VTSM_PGCI_UT info, etc.

Jarret

[xup]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Joseph2,

Thanks for the hard work on this thread. Using your methods I've found that I can make copies of virtually anything with only a few minor changes here and there.

jdobbs


jdoobs I would like to give your method a try but could you please give me a slighty more detailed account of how you are going about re-editing the original ifo file with the new one created as your method sounds like it would cater exactly for my needs.


Cheers

xup

[jdobbs]

xup,

Forgive me for being verbose, a lot of this is a repeat of Joseph2’s method. I just wanted to save paging back and forth. This method uses SmartRipper, IFOEdit, CCE, Pulldown, SpruceUp, ChapterXtractor. It has the limitation (from SpruceUp) of only a single AC3 track and no subtitles. You could, I’m sure, replace the SpruceUp section with any other authoring package. The last steps seem complicated, but they actually save some time by ridding the method of a lot of manual changes. I especially think a little programming support could automate that process and make life much easier.

1. Using SmartRipper open the DVD. If it appears in the opening screen that there is more than one angle on the movie's title set you should think twice about using this method if this is your first time. You can make this one work, but its more complicated, and it gets easier after you've done it a few times and understand IFOs a little. If you're ready to go -- Set SmartRipper to "Files" mode and copy the entire DVD's content down to a subdirectory (I use "d:\image\vobs")

2. Using DVD2AVI select the track that holds the movie (usually the largest) and create a new D2V and AC3 (I put it in "d:\image")

3. Use either the VFAPI or AVISynth method(s) for frame serving to CCE. I use AVISynth (its a little faster) with the following script:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRAM FILES\DVD-RIP\AVISYNTH\MPEG2DEC.DLL")
mpeg2source("d:\image\infile.d2v")
ResampleAudio(44100)

4. Feed the AVS (AVISynth) or AVI (VFAPI) into CCE. Don’t worry about chapter markers etc in CCE as Joseph2 outlined - it doesn’t matter in this method - you will choose the closest I frame in SpruceUp (you’ll be within a half second). Make sure you set CCE to the proper DAR (match the original). Ignore the fact that SpruceUp is 4:3 specific -- it will accept 16:9 source. I've come to love the Robshot method for this step. If I use the bitrate that gets the overall Q factor under 9 (as Robshot suggests) I have never (yet) had to worry about the resulting output size fitting on a DVD-5. You may want to calculate (especially for those DVDs where the special features take a lot of space) the size of your title set just to be safe. I would suggest, though, that if you can't keep the Q factor under 10 and make it fit -- go to a 2 DVD-R solution. If you don't care about quality you might as well use a 99 cent VHS tape. The encode takes a while. On my 1.3Ghz Athlon system is takes about an hour for each 1.25 hours of movie for each of the two passes.

5. If this is a FILM source used for NTSC run PULLDOWN.EXE against the resultant .MPV file.

6. Using SpruceUp, load the MPV and AC3 file as an asset, this takes about 5 minutes as it checks the sources.

7. Use ChapterXtractor and open the IFO from the original VTS_X_X.IFO. I usually cut and paste the chapters into notepad or Wordpad and keep the file open so I can reference the points (using ALT-TAB) while setting chapters in SpruceUp.

8. In SpruceUp double click on the video asset. Then use the slider to set chapter points. Using the output from Chapter extractor get as close as you can to the same point in time as the original for each chapter. The chapter point doesn't have to match exactly, but you want the scenes to match the menus in your original source pretty closely -- I usually use the arrow keys to go back an forth around the point to find the best transition point / scene change. Do this for all chapters -- and make sure (important) your final chapter count matches that of the original VOB... You are going to use most of the original title's IFO -- and it expects the correct count.

9. Drag the SpruceUp video asset into the first play frame (on the bottom of the screen). Then EXPORT. Choose to create a title set in a directory of your choice. (I use d:\spruceupimage). The VOBs created will have perfect sync and will be used to replace the originals...

10. I usually then go to the original source directory and backup my original IFO and BUP files in case I make a mistake. I also move the main title VOBs (e.g. VTS_03_1.VOB - VTS_03_x.VOB) to another directory also. Just make sure you remove these VOBs from the original source directory, they will be replaced by the SpruceUp output.

11. Change the title set number to match the ones you will replace (e.g. VTS_01_1.VOB might become VTS_03_1.VOB) and copy all except VTS_01_0.VOB to the directory you cleared in step 10. The “0” file often contains the menu information you want to keep in the original…

12. Here’s where it diverges from Joseph2’s method. Open the newly created IFO file (from SpruceUp) with IFOEdit. Also open the IFO from the original title set (e.g. VTS_03_0.IFO). In the SpruceUp-created IFO, click on VTS_PGCITI. If you used SpruceUp you’ll notice that the bottom window shows the VTS_PGCI start byte value as 10 (hex). The first PGC descriptor itself starts with that offset - remember that because it’s an offset you need to remember when using HEXEDIT. Now expand on VTS_PGC_1. Notice (if you used SpruceUp) that the count for programs and cells is the same. Scroll down until you see: "PGC Program Map" under the description tab. Write down the beginning address on the line underneath (e.g. [0000015c]). Now continue scrolling to the bottom of the PGC area. Also write down the final address (e.g. [000005c3]) You can use the HEX function in windows calculator to compute the size (5c3 - 15c = 467) of the area you will need to copy. Now click on VTS_PGCITI again and push the HEXEDIT button. Use the values you wrote down, and add an offset that matches the header (10 hex) to mark an area that you want to copy. In my example it would be 16c (15c + 10) through 5d3 (5c3 + 10). Highlight (with your mouse) the area in the hexeditor containing this range. Right click on the highlighted area and select "copy". This puts the chapter/cell information into the clipboard.

13. Now, on the original IFO, go through the same method to find the beginning and end of the program/chapter area -- make sure the size is at least as big as your source (it has been every time for me, since the originals tend to have more cells that SpruceUp). It is alright if it's bigger. When you're looking at the first page of the PGC, change the number of cells (offset 3) to match your source cell count. In SpruceUp the Programs and Cells will match. If you have multiple PGCs write down the VTS_PGCI start byte for the PGC you are replacing as that will be your offset value for hexedit (see step 12). In most IFOs you don't have to worry about it, there is only 1 PGC and the offset is 10. Now, using the first address of the "PGC Program Map" as the base (adding the offset) and the HEXEDIT button (same as step 12) highlight a section the same size as the area you copied to the clipboard (in my example it was 467. So, for example, if the start address was 22C and the offset was 10, you'd highlight from 23C (22C+10) through 6A3 (23C + 467). Now right click and paste from the clipboard.

14. Next I save the original IFO with my changes and do a standard IFOEdit "Get VTS Sectors" to fix the now incorrect sector offsets.

15. It's done. I test with PowerDVD, put the results in a VIDEO_TS directory with a blank AUDIO_TS directory, and then reenter SpruceUp and write the title set to DVD-R. I've done this on several titles so far. Only one, which had multiple angles in the original, created a problem in that the disk started up with the movie instead of the menu. Luckily in that case Derrow was kind enough to provide me with a First Play command that fixed it.

jdobbs

[SAT4N]

OK everything is moving right along for me (I got in this thread a bit late), and the only problem I'm having is that chapters are still off by a few frames. I have an NTSC source, and have changed rate to 23.976 in Chapter-X-Tractor and plugged those frame times into CCE before the first pass. But in Scenarist I'm still not allowed to choose the exact scene times as Chapter-X-Tractor shows. All options are identical to those in the guide. I'm 99% happy with the chapters being off a few milliseconds but wouldn't mind getting past this final (hopefully) hurdle. Thanks for the great guides...

[xup]

jdobbs,

Thanks for such a detailed explanation, this exactly suits my needs just 1 audio track and no subtitles is all what I need at the moment.

Just getting to grips with steps 12-13 of your guide in my head and will then give it a go tonight.

Thanks once againg jdobbs that must have taken some time typing but is very much appreciated.


xup

[Eyes`Only]

Originally posted by jdobbs

... Don’t worry about chapter markers etc in CCE as Joseph2 outlined - it doesn’t matter in this method - you will choose the closest I frame in SpruceUp (you’ll be within a half second)...
jdobbs

Note: This works fine if you really don't care about correct chapter points, but if you do a movie which has a killer FMV sequence leading into each chapter, such as Final Fantasy, you'll be very sorry if you don't follow the guide and set the chapter points in CCE correctly. I tried both methods (setting and not-setting) and by not setting the chapter points, the FMV-to-chapter effect in Final Fantasy looks terrible and is totally off sync. You probably won't fully understand unless you get this DVD or an equivalent, but I'd really recommend taking the time to set the I-frames EXACTLY, since if you're studying the method outlined in this thread, you probably are someone that wants a perfect DVD everytime, just like I do.

Also noted (thanks to Jarret3 for this one)- if you are re-authoring extras, or complex main movies, the original VOB will point to many VobIDs. Your re-authored VOBs created using this method seem to have VobID #1 only. Therefore, in the latter steps of the method, it seems you need to change all the pointers in the original ifo that point to the different VobIDs to instead point to VobID #1, just like the re-authored IFO does. Has anyone else (besides Jarret3) noticed this?

Also, if your VOBs contain more than one PGC, one important step has been left out of the guide. When you go to enter the chapter points into CCE, uncheck the 'last chapter bugfix'. Then you must use the PGC drop down box (changing the framerate EVERY time you change the PGC # if you are using 23970 fps) and also enter in the chapter points that are in each PGC, not just the main PGC 1 that the guide shows.

[lucindrea]

well i followed doom9's guide for cce ifo edit and the cce encodeing docs ( including the chapter points from chapter exctractor ) ... being as i dont have access to scenerist i used maestro ... after a bit of frame rate tweaking i got my vobs and ifos ... i did corrected all the pointers in the vtspciti/vts_pcg_1 area ... problem is my orginal ifo has 18 vts_pgc's and the new ifo has 1 ... check this out ..

ORGINAL ifo ({tab}'s didnt space this correctly so look carfully )

[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:03:26.21 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 6201]
[Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:03:11.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 11933]
[Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:03:06.16 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 17529]
[Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:02:14.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 21526]
[Pg 05] [Cell 05] : time: 00:07:08.03 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:16:49.19] [Frames: 30289]
[Ch 02] [Pg 06] [Cell 06] : time: 00:04:44.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:21:33.20] [Frames: 38801]
[Pg 07] [Cell 07] : time: 00:03:35.27 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:25:09.17] [Frames: 45287]


NEW ifo

[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:03:39.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:59:40.07] [Frames: 6201]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:03:11.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 11933]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:03:06.16 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 17529]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:02:14.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 21526]


anyone got any ideas? ... if i missed anything said on this ( long ) thread please point me to it. ... my main problem is that i think the chapter menu is linked to the cells/pg's somehow because it's way off .. where chapter menu says it's 1/2 through the movie is ... it goes to the credits ...

JUST an fyi if anyone cares .. this is matrix , striped subs and all but 1 sound track and only kept the first seamless branching before dvd2avi->cce

[SAT4N]

This is the same question I asked before realizing this whole thread is mainly about how to get this to work. The problem it seems is that Maestro only makes a 1:1 ratio of chapters to cells. You need to use Scenarist to incert the chapters and cells as "scenes", then tell which scene is a chapter and which is a cell and link them approriately. The guide explains this very well and it makes it so your new ifo layout looks like your old one.

[lucindrea]

ug .. *sigh* guess it's time to scour the web

[Joseph2]

I think you missed some posts in the middle of the thread. You really don't need to define exactly all the chapters and the cells in the authoring software in the same structure.
To simplify, I usually define all the cells chapters. I don't make any difference between chapters and cells, so I end up with as many chapters as cells. You don't need the structure of the new .IFO, only the new cell addreses, because you already have the correct structure and cell/chapters assignement in the original .IFO.
I have not tried Maestro, but I would suggest setting all the cells as chapters (1:1 ratio), and copy the new cell addresses. It should work exactly the same as Scenarist.

[SAT4N]

What happens when you have 4 cells per chapter in your original IFO edit though? Thats the one that you keep (after adjusting frames), so doesnt the new IFO created by Scenarist have to match exactly?

[lucindrea]

well after 3 tries with scenarist ( their is an easy program to figure out - not ) ... the guide helped alot ( thanks doom9 ) ... the only thing i got confused about was the way that scenarist does the chapter/cell thing .. what it calls programs i would call chapters and the pcg is what i would call a title .. once i figured that out ( yes i made 1 image with 38 titles, not 38 chapters, the first try .. but the cells wer in the correct titles hehe ) ... now it's just a matter of waiting for it to do it's muxing thing ( i allredy figured out a fast way to edit the orginal ifo useing a hex editor )

[lucindrea]

BTW ... i'm saving the scenrist script .. so if anyone wants a 1 audio 1 seamless branch script for matrix ( f this works ) let me know .. typing all the time codes is a real pain.

[SkoalWintergreen]

I'm confused a little, I'm doing The Hurricane Region 1, and it has 25 VOB-ID's just for the main movie and it comes out to 41 cells, do I need to have 25 PGC and then line the right cells up with the right IDs?? b/c doom9's guide says its okay to just have one, but hes talking about a movie with 2 VOB-IDs for some reason hurricane has a whopping 25, so do I need 25PGC or will one work?

[SAT4N]

I seem to have read, at first, that you need 1 PGC for every VOB ID, which is false. Just open up the original ifo in ifoedit and it will tell you how many pgc's there are, i think normally just 1 per vts set. The last movie I did had 18 VOB ID's, but only one PGC. It also had 20 chapters but like 36 cells. So in Scenarist I had to create 36 scenes, then had to reconnect the programs that werent chapters to make them cells (That may not be the correct wording). I'd stick with 1 PGC for just the movie, and then follow the guide on how to reconnect the scenes to get the right amount of chapters and cells. Hope that helps :rolleyes:

[lucindrea]

hmm ... maby this will lear it up a bit...

i've been working on matrix so i'll use it as an example ( real pain to copy but probly one of the best "learning" dvd's as it has just about everything in it ) ... first off the main movie lives in vts_02 .. not the normal 1 ...

ok i open vts_02_0.ifo ... i see that on the first screen it has a list of chapters and most of them have several programs in each chaptor and 1 cell per program. .. open VTS_PCGITTI ( i spell that right? ) and their are 18 PCG's in their ... but only the first one has all 106 cells listed in it .. so the main movie has 1 PCG .. everything else are for menus and jump points etc. ...

in scenirest i make 1 PCG in the scene editor. Then make all 106 cell points in the track editor.

looking back at the ifo file the very first page you will see

[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:03:26.21 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 6201]
[Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:03:11.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 11933]
[Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:03:06.16 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 17529]
[Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:02:14.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 21526]
[Pg 05] [Cell 05] : time: 00:07:08.03 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:16:49.19] [Frames: 30289]
[Ch 02] [Pg 06] [Cell 06] : time: 00:04:44.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:21:33.20] [Frames: 38801]

ok .. chaptor 1 has 5 programs under it ... in the scenerio editor i grab the first cell and drag it to the pcg .. that will create 2 icons .. 1 program and 1 cell ... then i drag the next 4 cells ( 4-5 ) and drag them to the program icon .. then for the next chaptor i drag cell #6 to the pcg , making a second program ico and a cell under it .. etc.

i now have 1 PCG with 2 progams , that each have cells attached to them.

the ifo created will now have a section under the VTS_PCGITI/VTS_PCG_1 that looks like

PGC Program Map:
[0000017c] Program_1: Entry cell number 1 [01]
[0000017d] Program_2: Entry cell number 6 [06]

i can copy the new PCG_1 into my oginal ifo and keep the other 17 PCG's the way they are and my menus etc. are still all in tact.


Basicly - copy the orginal ifo , but only look ate the PCG's ( almost allways just 1 ) that work with the main movie ... most of the rest are just extras , and are only a few bytes in the ifo and not used if those menus/extras have been striped.

hope this clears it up a bit :-)

you may want to look at my post http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21284 to save yourself a bit of typing untill Darrow automates it.

[SAT4N]

Is this a multi-angle movie? Perhaps this is why you have more than one program per chapter. Look at the program position for PG01-04, all the same. If you use ifoedit to strip out these angles, maybe you wouldnt have so many extra scenes you have to duplicate in scenarist. Maybe you have already, I'm just taking a wild guess...

Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:03:26.21 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 6201]
[Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:03:11.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 11933]
[Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:03:06.16 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 17529]
[Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:02:14.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:54:00.23] [Frames: 21526]
[Pg 05] [Cell 05] : time: 00:07:08.03 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:16:49.19] [Frames: 30289]
[Ch 02] [Pg 06] [Cell 06] : time: 00:04:44.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:21:33.20] [Frames: 38801]

[lucindrea]

acctully that was just a typo on my part ... no way to copy the first page of ifoedit to clipboard so i manualy typed it ... the points are differnt in the real one. ... matrix has like 4 different titles .. all with differnt chapter points and cell combonations ... thats the seamless branching. .. first pass with ifoedit i removed branching and angles :-)

[jarret3]

For Joseph or anyone else who is experinced in Scenarist with doing multiple PGCs for extras. I ran into a problem the other day and i was wondering what can be done about it. Lets say my main movie was PGC1 and for PGC2 i had a trailer, well the problem is it was not allowing me to add the extra to PGC2 because the extras sound was 2 channel while main movies' sound was 5 channel, so i got an error that they didn't match up??? How do u get around this?

Thanks,
Jarret

[lucindrea]

Originally posted by malzahn
thx Joseph 2,

when I have I little more time I'll test it.

I have a link to a nice little program, which could help you to spare a little time, it creates a scenarist script with the chapters from the original film, all what you need is the CCE 2.50.01.00,the doc is only in German,but the program is very easy to handle.

http://134.102.55.6/cgi-bin/download/dtrack.cgi?rc=dvd

regards malzahn


bah .. thing give me a runtime error "type mismatch" whenever i try to open it .. ohwell.

[lucindrea]

Originally posted by jarret3
For Joseph or anyone else who is experinced in Scenarist with doing multiple PGCs for extras. I ran into a problem the other day and i was wondering what can be done about it. Lets say my main movie was PGC1 and for PGC2 i had a trailer, well the problem is it was not allowing me to add the extra to PGC2 because the extras sound was 2 channel while main movies' sound was 5 channel, so i got an error that they didn't match up??? How do u get around this?

Thanks,
Jarret

create another vts and put your pgc2 in that .. you shouldnt have any problems calling it from the other vts

[jarret3]

wont that create a new ifo file for the second VTS? can i link to that?

Thanks,
Jarret

[lucindrea]

hmm good question .. i know thats how i got it to work on somthing i was doing ( but i dint make any jumps )... didnt think that it would create a new vob set ... you can create a new title and jump to that .. and i do belive differnt titles can have differnt formats.

[jarret3]

nope tried that, different titles cannot have different audio formats

Jarret

[lucindrea]

ok i think i got it .... right click the VMG .. add a lauguage (english)... under that add a pcg .... the pcg is a dummy pcg ( acctully it's the "root menu" ).. you can jump through that from a program in VTS_1 to another program in VTS_2 ... check out http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21355 for some jump examples.

ALSO of note .. i belive we have gone off topic in this thread and i suggest we move it to the above.

[jarret3]

well there must be a way to do it w/o adding an additional VTS, since the original is done like that.

Jarret

[lucindrea]

no one said they use scenartist .. could be a scenartist thing .. but i rember that in dvdwise you couldnt link a title to another tiele without going through a pgcmenu ... could be a DVD limitation ... ... then agin ... multiple audio tracs in 1 movie is fairly common.

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jarret3
For Joseph or anyone else who is experinced in Scenarist with doing multiple PGCs for extras. I ran into a problem the other day and i was wondering what can be done about it. Lets say my main movie was PGC1 and for PGC2 i had a trailer, well the problem is it was not allowing me to add the extra to PGC2 because the extras sound was 2 channel while main movies' sound was 5 channel, so i got an error that they didn't match up??? How do u get around this?

Thanks,
Jarret

Usually different PGC's under the same VTS always have the same audio type. The division in PGC's is done from a single .m2v file, so you should also have a single audio file to multiplex with the video file.
When working with different VTS's I usually treat them separatedly. This allow a better estimation of required filesizes. There is no need to multiplex the movie and the extras at the same time, and I think it's easier to do it separatedly.

Best regards

[jarret3]

Well what happenes if in the original movie all the extras and the main movie are put in the same VTS?

[Joseph2]

Originally posted by jarret3
Well what happenes if in the original movie all the extras and the main movie are put in the same VTS?

Then you should get a single video file to reencode, and a single audio file. There is no need to split the original file in PGC's. Reencode it without splitting, fix cell/chapter points and multiplex it, but with a single video and a single audio file.
There are only few cases in which this would result in losing audio/video sync' in the last PGC's if the audio track is slightly shorter than the video, but I don't think this should be the case.
I'm curious. I have never seen a DVD with the movie and the extras in the same VTS. Which movie are we talking about?

[jarret3]

So even if there is multiple PGCs in the original IFO i dont need to keep that structure? The movie is NTSC and it is called "Heat"

Thanks,
Jarret

[Eyes`Only]

I have created a dvd layout in Scenarist as shown in this screenshot. PGC1 has 3 chapters/cells at 00:02:00:00, 00:01:00:00, and 00:02:00:00. PGC2 has 2 chapters/cells at 00:03:00:00 and 00:04:00:00. When I compile the project, I get the ifo file that you see in this screenshot. The second PGC is off, and always seems to start at 00:00:00.15 every time I attempt this. Creating more PGCs results in each PGC having a first cell of 00:00:00.15 time. What am I doing wrong?

click here for the screenshot (http://members.cox.net/jonesd/pgcscopy.jpg)

[DaSilva]

Just a small question here:
can I use the CCE and Scenarist method to for a movie with one .AC3 and a DTS track?
And if so how do I demux the DTS track?

[lucindrea]

you can demux the DTS with dvd2avi ... also SmartRipper will do it if you open the folder you have your striped vobs in ... i dont rember if scenartist allows the inporting of DTS though and my machine is tied up right now so i cant check

[jarret3]

Scenarist works with DTS no problem, i did Gladiator that way.

Jarret

[Scrapps]

Sheesh! just finished backing up American Pie 2 using the CCE method.

This sucker has 21 chapters and 104 cells!!! Wonder if I can sue for the likely arthritus i'll suffer from 416 copy and pastes to correct the IFO file :)

Just hope this isn't a sample of what we can expect from future new releases.

[lucindrea]

their is a much eaiser way to do it.. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21284

[ghetto pornstar]

hey all...

i've been a lurker in the dvd / ifoedit / cce threads on this board for a while now. i've burned three successful consecutive dvd-r's using the massive amounts of time, effort, and research everyone's put in and lots of blood, sweat, and late nights on my part. for each of those dvd-r's i used a simple rempeg / ifoedit remux, and that was hard enough.

now, i'm confronted by this obviously superior cce / scenarist / ifoedit technique and i'm agape at the seeming amount of knowledge needed. which isn't to say i can't or won't do it, i mean, i followed everyone's advice on the rempeg method using ifoedit .5 or something, so i can manage this...i hope.

it's just, i've been lurking and reading for a long time and thought i'd like to get involved in the community. not exactly sure what i can contribute, but i once offered to make derrow an ifoedit icon, as i'm a digital artist, but he already had one.

anyway, i've kinda been absorbing all this and not joining in, and i guess this monster cce / ifoedit thread that i just read all the way through struck me as filled with such kindly and intelligent questions and answers that i felt i had to say...well...thanks all. every single one of you. the big guys and the small.

i probably won't post much (busy trying to burn these damn dvds :), but i hope you all give yourselves a pat on the back or something.

'spect.

[Eyes`Only]

Two mentionables:

1) "Multiple cells in a chapter"

In Doom's Guide (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/ifoedit-cce.htm), it shows the procedure for setting chapter and cell points in Scenarist. It then goes on to show how to set cell points when there is not a corresponding chapter point (see the part in the guide that begins with "... If you have more cells we have to ensure that the additional cells are no chapterpoints") but I believe this to be a moot point.(?)

In the last step, we basically copy cell data over to the original ifo, correct? Nowhere in that step do we deal with chapter data. Therefore, we should be able to just drag and drop the whole collection of scenes that we've created into the scenario editor, allowing Scenarist to create one chapter for each cell. We shouldn't need to create chapters with multiple cells in scenario editor. Then, without any further editing of the scenario, we should be able to create the DVD Video.

After this, the cell points will still be the exact same as if we had gone through all the extra procedure of editing the scenario to match the chapter/cell layout of the original ifo. And since, the chapters are already set in the original ifo, copying the cell data over from the new ifo is all that needs to be done.

I've tested this with "There's Something About Mary" DVD and it seems to work fine. Is there anything I'm not thinking of that would make this method incorrect?

2) "Scenarist chapters are off"

With my NTSC videos, even if I can get the chapter points to something close or even exactly the same as the time shown in ifoedit, it doesn't seem to match exactly where the movie has the chapter at.

I've found a solution to this issue. Here's an example of what I do. Say the chapter is at (00:10:10:15). Set that scene in Scenarist. Double click on the scene that was just created. You will notice the top left timebox changes to a time that is slightly less than the time you set. In this example, that time is now (00:10:05.05). Now subtract this timebox from the time you original entered. ex. (00:10:10.15)-(00:10:05.05) = (00:00:05.10). Add this result to the time in the scene you set (00:10:10.15)+(00:00:05.10)=(00:10:15.25). Now change the scene you set to that result. ex. Change (00:10:10.15) to (00:10:15.25). The scene should now be exactly where the chapter on the original movie is. I've verified this by opening the movie in PowerDVD, playing it, pausing it, then using the 'next chapter' button and looking at the starting image for each chapter, and they match exactly using my method. Not sure if it works for PAL users, or if you even have this problem, but for NTSC it seems to correct the issue!

[jarret3]

damn, u just can't stay away from this post can u eyes :P

[lucindrea]

hehe now if eyes is a export programer , then he will write us a tool to do this automactly :-) ... hmm i dont see a tool so i guess eyes isnt ...

i have also noticed the differance in the cell points and i will try your method :-)

[Eyes`Only]

I do have a bit of programming experience, but I'd rather leave this task to someone who's obtained more recent training and knows the latest techniques. Any takers? :)

The problem with writing a program to do this automatically is to determine what the top left timecode is going to be after you doubleclick on the scene that scenarist makes. I can't figure out any way to do so, yet. I am currently analyzing the difference in the times between the time that shows in ifoedit and what you actually have to set it to to determine if there's any numerical progression formula that can be discovered, but i'm a bit rusty on advanced mathmatics, having been out of school for several years now!

Also, can anyone design a small excel spreadsheet where you plug in two timecodes and it tells you the corrected timecode based on my method?

[smoof]

I'd had success without recreating all the cell entries. I used SpruceUp to create the chapters only. After compiling, I pasted the new PGC Program Map, Cell Playback and Cell Position in VOB info into the original .ifo. I also replaced the VTS_C_ADT map as well (don't know if it was necessary though). Chapter selection from the menu works fine.

I didn't bother setting the chapter points in CCE either, since I wasn't concerned about getting the exact start frame.

Has anyone noticed the following using the hex editor in IfoEdit 0.9:
When I cut a block of bytes from one .ifo file and paste them into a different .ifo file (being very careful to select the same number of bytes) it seems that some of the bytes after the section being pasted get changed. For instance, cut & past the PGC program map and then you will notice that the info for the first cell in the Cell Playback table has been changed.

[Eyes`Only]

Just my 2 cents-:

I don't understand all this talk about others not being concerned about getting the chapter frames perfect. Am I the only one doing DVDs that exact chapters matter? For instance, Final Fantasy has a killer sequence when you go from chapter selection menu to any chapter.. very nice eye-candy which is ruined if you don't make the chapter point exact. Also, I just did Memento, in which each chapter point starts at a black screen and then fades into the next chapter. This one would look very wrong if when you clicked on the chapter it played 1 second of the last chapter and then faded out, and then faded in to start the new chapter. I'm sure there's many other DVDs that exact chapter points are necessary, but this is just a couple of instances to illustrate the importance of finding an exact method. If others aren't concerned with their chapter points, maybe they should grab these 2 movies and use 'their' method just to see how messed up the DVD becomes?

[Eyes`Only]

Click here (http://members.cox.net/jonesd/scenecalc.zip) for the scenarist scene calculator I designed (or the attachment, when/if it finally becomes available), for anyone who wants to try it. When the attachment is finally shown, I'll delete the file at the above URL, this is just in the interim.

Usage: Use the bottom right to enter in the 2 scene values. Note: each timecell must be 8 digits or else the formula screws up. I made it this way because i was getting requests to make it copy/paste friendly for Scenarist.

[jdobbs]

Smoof,

Here are the things you have to change in the PGCITI when you use the cut-and-paste technique (in the VTS_PGC_1 area of VTS_PGCITI):

1. Set offset 3 (number of cells) to match your SpruceUp cell count (same as chapters).

2. Offset 000000E8 - Cell Playback Information Table Offset to match your new paste.

3. Offset 000000EA - Cell Position Information Table Offset to match your new paste.

Then of course all the data that you paste starting at the PGC Program Map.

I think the last two changes are what are causing byte wierdness you're seeing.

I wrote a small Visual Basic app that does it for me. Nothing fancy, but you can have it if you want... I'd personally like to see the cut, paste, and value changes get added as a button in IFOEdit...

Eyes Only,

I appreciate your need for perfection... but for most movies you really can't tell the difference of half a second.

jdobbs

[lucindrea]

i would like to use that vb program :-)

[jdobbs]

Attached. It's not pretty but it works. I have no pride. The zip file contains an executable, an INI file, and the VB source code. To run it you'll need the VB runtime installed. No usage rules -- keep it, change it, or throw it away -- I don't care, just never blame me for anything. I don't advocate stealing other people's intellectual property, so remember it wasn't posted for that purpose -- I just like to see how these things work.

Have I said enough?

Steps to use:

1. Rip to disk and reencode with CCE.
2. Reauthor the main movie. I use SpruceUp and match chapters.
3. Save the original VTS_0X_X.VOB files somewhere.
4. Copy the newly created VOB files (except VTS_01_0.VOB)
5. Type in the path to the newly created IFO.
6. Type in the path to the IFO to be modified.
7. Type in a path to where you want the original saved.
8. Push the button.
9. Go into IFOEdit and look at the modified file.
10. Do Get VTS Sectors.
11. Burn to DVD-R.

The paths are saved in the INI so you don't have to keep retyping.

If you find error and fix it, I'd appreciate you post a copy of the fix.

jdobbs

[jdobbs]

!@$#$*,

No attachment?

I used the "Attach file" option -- it says "may attach files." Anybody know how this works?

[Eyes`Only]

Jdobbs: Yeah i know how it works. In my experience you wait forever for the attachment to be 'ok'd, and finally it will appear in the post. Took me a day and a half for my first post, for the last one, i just uploaded to site and gave ppl the link because the wait is just too long for it to be approved. I will put it on my ftp if you'd like, and then you can link to it immediately.

also, I too would be ok with half a second, but in my experience it's anywhere around 5 seconds by the end of the movie, which I'm NOT OK with.

[jdobbs]

Eyes only,

Thanks. I usually copy the chapter list from ChapterXtractor into notepad or Wordpad so I can keep it on the screen. Then in SpruceUp I go to the correct time point for the chapter. You can go forward and back in 1 sec intervals with the arrow keys, so you can get accurate to within 12-15 frames depending on your GOP size.

[Eyes`Only]

If that works in SpruceUp, that sounds great. However, in Scenarist I've put chapter times in, which Scenarist moves to somewhere within 15 frames of the time i put in, however that is not the real starting frame. Try opening Powerdvd, play the movie, hit pause, then hit next chapter and compare the starting frame for each chapter with what the frame in SpruceUp shows. Dont compare the values, compare the actual image on powerdvd with the image in SpruceUp. Are they the same? In Scenarist, I have to shift forward the times with up to 5 or more seconds toward the end of the movie. ie. if the chapter was at 01:00:15:20, I'd find the actual starting frame I need to enter is around 01:00:20:20 (5 sec diff).

[jdobbs]

Hmmm... I'll try that. I always look for a scene change at the time point listed and it seems to almost always appear in the same or next second as the one listed. I'll check it against the original to see if its truly right. It seems strange that you'd see that much divergence in time.

[jdobbs]

lucindrea,

Apparently the attachment never got posted... so I gave it a try in the test forum (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20961). It worked there -- but now won't let me repost it in the correct forum....

Anyway just follow the link above and you can get it.

[lucindrea]

got it thanks

[ghetto pornstar]

hey all...

been struggling to get this ifoedit/cce method down. i took what seemed the simplest way for me, and followed jdobbs spruce up method. seemed to work great, almost.

Joseph:
There are only few cases in which this would result in losing audio/video sync' in the last PGC's if the audio track is slightly shorter than the video, but I don't think this should be the case.
I'm curious. I have never seen a DVD with the movie and the extras in the same VTS. Which movie are we talking about?

the movie i am ripping is 2001: a space odyssey and it has all the extras and the movie in one vts set vts_01_xx.

1. ripped the entire dvd with dvd decrypter.
2. used ifoedit to remove some logo/warning/extras.
3. used dvd2avi to create a main movie d2v file
4. used vfapi to frame-serve to cce. used a 3-pass encode in cce.
5. used pulldown on the resulting m2v file
6. took the ifo-modified dvd and ripped the .ac3 track from it using vstrip
7. loaded the m2v and ac3 into spruce up.
8. used chapterxtractor to match up the chapter points in spruce-up, created a 1-1 chapter/cell ratio.
9. authored the remuxed dvd into a new folder.
10. took the newly created ifo and copied the chapter/pgc information into the ifo i had created from step 2.
11. tested the dvd in ifoedit. it seemed to play alright, but didn't load the menu and the audio is out of sync by the amount of warnings/logos i ripped.

can anyone shed some light on this?

[jdobbs]

ghetto,

It can sometimes, though, get problematic on destination IFOs that have multiple PGCs...

I just happen to own a copy of 2001 so I SmartRipped and opened it with it DVD2AVI and IFOEdit to see what you mean. I see your point. There are 7 PGCs in this VTS. Doom9 and Joseph2 both had some discussions on multiple PGCs using Scenarist earlier in this thread. Page 7 of the thread has a discussion on a scenario that almost exactly matches your problem (JARRET3 and JOSEPH2). It seems that there are always exceptions to the rule in the way these things are authored.

In this movie there is some copyright and logo stuff at the beginning, that's pretty common I've just dumped that stuff before, but what is unusual (at least from my experience so far) are the two trailers and the interview with Arthur C. Clarke that are PGCs in the same VTS and follow the movie. Those typically fall into a VTS of their own and you don't have to deal with it in this method.

You'd need to create multiple PGCs to match the original. I don't know of any way you can do that in SpruceUp as it purposely hides most of the underlying structure from the author (to make it easier). I'd defer to the earlier PGC discussions between DOOM9, JOSEPH2, and TCONNECTT all of whom are much more Scenarist savvy than I.

I personally like to first analyze a DVD and choose the path of least resistance. Looking at this one, there aren't that many menus, and only a couple of features... I'd probably just reauthor using the original's menus/materials...

jdobbs

[ghetto pornstar]

jdobbs, thanks for the reply. i already put in motion the process of using scenarist (re-cce-ing, this time with chapter points) and will give it a shot. i can't believe i missed the topic in this thread that would've helped me (page 7), i've read this monster thread so many times my eyes are burning...i wonder if there's anyway we can sort of sum it all up?

anyway, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, i'm going to give it a shot. will post results :)

[jarret3]

Finally, finished my program, thanks to eyes for his work in giving me the calculations ahead of time. It basically does what eyes does only you don't need excel and it was written in C++ and has a pretty GUI. I will post the ftp that it will be hosted on tommrow. It has some very cool features, including a very useful copy to clipboard feature. When u guys get it im open for suggestions on what to add to it.

Jarret

[Eyes`Only]

Jdobbs-

Not to be a spoil-sport, but I've tried your program on two different extras vtses that I have reauthored. It seems to copy ttn1/pgc1 perfectly, but that's it?(!) The second and subsequent titles don't change at all. Can you please bugfix this program to work with multiple titles? It's such a great idea for a helper app, i just can't really use it if it can't do multiple titles... all extras have them, as well as the main movie in Warner Bros. DVDs, etc..

Thanks in advance

[jdobbs]

I'm out of town at a conference this week (Vegas!). I'll be back on Friday. I'll take a look at it then.

jdobbs

[s0nyguy]

Don't flame,

I have read this entire thread 2 or 3 times and I still havent really found the answer to my problem

I did a rip of Terminator 2 - Ultimate Edition, I did all the usual

1. rip using smartripper
2. create project with dvd2avi
3. used cce to encode
4. imported into DVD Maestro
5. extracted chapters from original DVD, and then imported into Maestro (perfect)
6. Imported created subtitles (subrip etc.)
7. Created vobs with Maestro
8. Copied vobs only into original structure keeping original ifo's
9. Opened up original .ifo and Maestro generated .ifo and went to vts_pgc1

My problem the original movie had 2 vob ID's with a layer break. And under vts_pgc1 the original had 82 cells the 82nd being 1 frame long.

My Maestro generated one had 80, where did I go wrong. I had copied the relevent sectors from new to old leaving the last 2nd last cell the same as the last. burnt it before i realised any problems as it plays to chapter 27 perfectly, will all working movies and chapters up to that point, but freezes on 28 with a blank screen and says something like "cannot read disk".

were did I go wrong, help please I have been working on this for a week and a half now..

[lucindrea]

i belive this is the reasion alot of pepole (myself included) use scenaritest to do the chapters/programs ... if you have a 1:1 ratio of chapters to programs maestro works great .. but if you have more cells/chapters than programs then you run into this problem as maestro doesnt have a way to replacate it.

[SAT4N]

Just a thought, you would only have a layer break in the original IFO's from the dvd. I think when importing the authored IFO into the "original" IFO, the word "original" would mean the IFO created AFTER stripping with ifoedit and creating new ifo's, and BEFORE any encoding (which wouldn't have a layer break), not the IFO from the dvd. Even if you dont strip anything from the dvd (which mostly likely you are since its dual layer), you can still have ifoedit create new ifo's, which also shouldnt have a layer break.

[s0nyguy]

You are correct the layer break was not in the New (after stripping some audio and subs) Ifo.

But i thought this might have cause it .. obviously not.

Oh well I will have to find a "test" copy of scenarist I guess. :scared:

Oh and if any law enforcement agencies read this the above is a lie and my name is sven from sweeden, I haff blonde hair you know :sly:

[jdobbs]

Eyes' Only and anyone else interested,

I've modified the IFOUpdate program to update the IFO information from multiple PGCs into the original IFO file. It's attached.

BTW - Using this app a smaller CELL count from the new authoring package is fine, the count and offsets all get adjusted in the IFO update.

jdobbs

[smoof]

I tried your tool and it worked great, good job. Now here's a question for everyone...

What about the VTS_C_ADT table. Seems like this information has already been defined in VTS_PGCITI\VTS_PGC_x. So I wonder why there is this separate table? Apparently it's not important to update it with the reauthored sector info (sounds like nobody does). I've been updating it just to be on the safe side.

Any ideas?

[jdobbs]

Frankly no one had ever mentioned changing those entries in this thread, and it has never had an apparent affect to any DVDs I've burned.

So, being the kind of person who avoids additional work at all costs, I've simply ignored that table...

Anyone else?

[Milky Man]

Originally posted by Doom9

is it possible to have one single m2v file but create multiple PGCs from it? Like PGC1 goes from 0:00:00 to 1:05:32 and PGC2 from 1:05:32 to the end of the movie.. or do you actually have to split?


For sure, you can. Even First program start from 00:20:00 and second from 00:10:00. I use Playlists in DVD-Maestro to do this. You can make any sequanse of chapters and play it like program.

[d4g]

ok have transcoded the film with cce and added the chapter points in cce as well...ok now how to i reauthor the film and extract audio and multiplex in the authoring program i want to also keep the menus...too.can some one give me a a guide from there on... so that the movie works plz

i tried etracting the audio with dvd2avi but i got a ac3 3_2 channel i tried importing the file in spruce up and it came up as pcm audion i dont think thats right...could someone shed some light for me im dying here......i want to get it right and tell me which progs to use i have spruce up and scenarist...help help

thanx in advance

[jdobbs]

d4g,

Are you sure you didn't have DVD2AVI setup for doing a Dolby decode rather than an demux? Look under the "Audio" dropdown menu and the "Dolby Digital" item. The decode will convert 3/2 Dolby to 2/0 surround sound encoded PCM. Demux will create a .AC3 file as output.

As for how to continue, first make sure you keep all the original files from the rip on your hard drive. If the VTS for the movie only has one PGC (look in IFOEdit) than you can use SpruceUp to easily convert it. Just import the M2V into SpruceUp, set the chapter points, drag it into the window at the bottom of the screen and then export with output set to "Title Set". After the VOBs are created, copy them to the original files directory (replace the original VOBs numbered 1 - n, you may want to back them up just in case) then use IFOUpdate to copy the PGC's chapter and cell data from the newly created IFO into the original. Next load up IFOEdit, run "Get VTS Sectors" to fix all the sector offsets correctly.

Test it with a player (like PowerDVD) and burn to disc. I've done this same procedure on numerous DVDs.

Hmmm... maybe I should put together a SpruceUp/CCE guide.

jdobbs

[d4g]

how do u copy the pcs cells and chapter things..
can u tell me and about u making a guide yes plz what happens if there are 2 pgcs...then what..

[Eyes`Only]

d4g, did you know there's a very good guide to all this (and it has the answer to every question you've asked besides spruceup related ones) at http://doom9.org/mpg/ifoedit-cce.htm?

Possibly you should read this guide first, as it answers many questions about the methods in this thread, and doom9 + others (myself included) spent a lot of time researching and explaining so that users like yourself would have an excellent starting point.

[lucindrea]

about the sound d4g .. if you do have scenartist then their is no reasion to downsample the ac3 sounds , one of the atvantages of making dvd/mini-dvd's is that you can keep the full obly-digital sound and dont have to convert to pro-logic.

[d4g]

ok with the changig of the ifos..can i use that little program thats posted on here or i have to do it manually..

[d4g]

this is the error i got in scenarist.. why is that could someone give me a detailed way to sub rip so i dont get errors..plz


Info ********* Error *********
Info Checking Subtitle File. Stream ID = 1, File = (C:\DVD Temp\s3sub.sst)
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [00:38:50;24 - 00:38:50;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [00:38:50;24 - 00:38:50;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [00:52:18;24 - 00:52:18;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [00:52:18;24 - 00:52:18;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [01:03:43;24 - 01:03:43;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [01:03:43;24 - 01:03:43;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [01:35:48;24 - 01:35:48;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [01:35:48;24 - 01:35:48;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [01:39:51;24 - 01:39:51;24]
Error The start time should be smaller than end_time. [01:39:51;24 - 01:39:51;24]
Info ----------------------------------------------------
Info ********* Error *********
Info Checking Subtitle File. Stream ID = 1, File = (C:\DVD Temp\s3sub.sst)
Error The display area(vertical) should be equal to 2 or bigger than 2.
Error The display area rectangle is inverted.
Error This pixel area top should be smaller than the bottom.
Error The display area does not match the pixel area.
Error The width of the display area should be equal to image file width.
Error Dimensions dump:
DisplayArea: X1=0, Y1=0, X2=-1, Y2=-1
PixelArea: Top=0, Bottom=0
SubTitleImage: Width=720, Height=576

Info ********* Error *********

[lucindrea]

i have never done subtitles myself .. but if i got an error like that i would go looking to the guides .. agin .. http://doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm

[Eyes`Only]

those errors are fun, aren't they? Doom9's got a decent guide on subtitling, I've got another guide that I've given Doom9 that works better for me, but he hasn't had time to integrate it with his yet.

Time errors like that are usually due to improper time calculations, for instance if you told the subtitling program that the fps was 24 but it was really 23.97.

In one movie, I actually had subtitles that gave negative time amounts (ie. the start time was after the end time). I knew that I hadn't done the time calc wrong, so I ended up going thru and manually deleting the improper lines, and the rest imported perfectly and synced up exactly like the original.

Subtitles rock but most ppl don't do them because they aren't the easiest thing to figure out. Too bad. To me it's like watching a movie in Karaoke mode. I've never done a dvd-r yet without including subs in it, because to me that would be incomplete. However, Doom9's method doesn't work for me so I had to improvise. If you want to look at my guide, pm me and I'll send it to you, or wait for Doom9 to redo his :)

[jdobbs]

A little late in response here... but you don't have to downsample the AC3 sounds for SpruceUp either - it accepts Dolby 5.1 as input. Not to say it is as powerful as Scenarist -- there's no comparison. But I can backup most DVDs complete with original menus and extras with very little work and not a whole lot of extra thought with the SpruceUp method. You just have to make sure the main movie VTS has only a single PGC, or contains the movie and other crap you don't care about (like redundant studio titles). When it gets complex, requires subtitles, or needs extra languages, you have to go the Scenarist route.

jdobbs

[jdobbs]

Attached is a new version of IFOUpdate for TRILIGHT and anyone else who found that 50 characters wasn't long enough for the filepath.

[Eyes`Only]

while you are playing around with ifoupdate.. do you think you can modify it to ONLY copy chapter information? Say an .ifo has 68 cells but only 25 chapters. I used to just throw 68 chapters in there, then copy cell values over while leaving the structure intact, it would change the value of each cell but preserve the pgc structure (ie. chapter 1 has 3 cells, the new frame values copied into those 3 cells but didnt rewrite the .ifo to be 3 chapters). If you could do this (requires copying 4 values per cell) then spruceup as well as scenarist would be able to be used for any amount of pgcs!

[jdobbs]

Good idea. I'll look at it this weekend.

[jdobbs]

Eyes' Only,

I've run into a couple of problems trying to implement the method you've mentioned.

1. If you reauthor with SpruceUp you will only get one VOB ID in each VTS. So the VOB IDs don't match in the original and newly created IFO files. I could fix that by forcing all the VOB IDs in the cell position table to 1, but that would then make newly authored files that were done properly with Scenarist (VOB IDs match) incorrect. I guess I could create a "Scenarist or SpruceUp" mode...

2. There are numerous instances where the cells are duplicates and aren't accessed sequentially. For example: You sometimes see multiple PGCs that point to a single VOB/CELL that is a common exit point at the very end of a stream.

With the problem in #2 using your cell-to-cell copy method, you'd find instances where selecting a special feature doesn't return to the features menu at its end, but instead continues playing the next following feature in the VOB...

I'm looking at it to see if there is some way I can recognize this and make it work... I'd really like to make this CCE method work on all DVDs with a need for nothing more than SpruceUp.

Any ideas?

jdobbs

[Eyes`Only]

Ok I'll tackle #1 first. I don't see how these VOBIDs make a difference. They don't exist in the actual mpeg2 stream, correct? Aren't they just part of the .ifo file? And as such, if you use the original .ifo, the vobids are correctly configured to match with the .ifo. If you use the reauthored .ifo, the vobid's are different, and they all match because the whole .ifo is based around the fact that the vobid's are set to certain things. If you use the original .ifo, the vobids have already been set up and still point correctly.

Am I mistaken on this? If so, where's the flaw in my logic?

As for #2, I'm out the door now but I will respond shortly.

Take care,

Eyes`Only

[jdobbs]

Eyes Only,

Sorry, but I think you're mistaken. The VOB and CELL IDs are a part of the VOB stream -- below is an example from the extras VTS of 12 Monkeys. Notice that when just the stream is analyzed by VSTRIP (without an IFO even provided to help it along) it still recognizes the IDs. The IFO actually has more cells -- each of the last four VOBs has a second cell pointer that references a sector in VOB ID #5 (an exit point).

I'm working on it. I have a version done that does what you wanted -- I'm now adding some automatic analysis code that might correct the difficulties I've seen so far. I'll send you a copy of the .EXE in its present state.

I'll make it work one way or another... I just have to make the code a little smarter.

jdobbs

vStrip - version 0.8a_css, by [maven] (maven@maven.de), CSS-code by R0TfL

Scanning for stream id's, press control-c to quit...
Found 0xBF = Private 2 [@LBA 0]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 01 [@LBA 0]
Found 0xE0 = Video 0 [PTS 0:00:00.112 @LBA 1]
Width = 720
Height = 480
Aspect-ratio = [2] 4:3 display
Frame-rate = [4] 29.97 (30000/1001) fps
Found 0xBD = Private 1, sub 0x83 [PTS 0:00:00.018 @LBA 5]
Found 0xBD = Private 1, sub 0x22 [PTS 0:00:00.046 @LBA 7]
Found 0xBE = Padding [@LBA 7]
Found 0xBD = Private 1, sub 0x21 [PTS 0:00:00.046 @LBA 8]
Found 0xBD = Private 1, sub 0x20 [PTS 0:00:00.046 @LBA 9]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 02 [@LBA 89723]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 03 [@LBA 137485]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 04 [@LBA 192890]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 05 [@LBA 265414]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 06 [@LBA 453249]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 07 [@LBA 491150]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 08 [@LBA 537637]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 09 [@LBA 606176]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 10 [@LBA 726261]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 11 [@LBA 803449]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 12 [@LBA 885669]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 13 [@LBA 902613]
Found VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 14 [@LBA 1140017]
Found VOB-ID: 02/CELL-ID: 01 [@LBA 1171009]
Found 0xBD = Private 1, sub 0x84 [PTS 0:00:00.046 @LBA 1171015]
Found VOB-ID: 03/CELL-ID: 01 [@LBA 1184038]
Found VOB-ID: 04/CELL-ID: 01 [@LBA 1197107]
Found VOB-ID: 05/CELL-ID: 01 [@LBA 1210167]

Summary:
MPEG Packs = 1210221
System headers = 10746
Private 1 packets = 72660, total bytes = 142649638
Sub 0x20 packets = 2661, total bytes = 3994097 (delay -0:00:00.067)
Sub 0x21 packets = 2527, total bytes = 3719971 (delay -0:00:00.067)
Sub 0x22 packets = 2302, total bytes = 3293898 (delay -0:00:00.067)
Sub 0x83 packets = 62596, total bytes = 126442768 (delay -0:00:00.095)
Sub 0x84 packets = 2574, total bytes = 5198904 (delay -0:00:00.067)
Padding packets = 14898, total bytes = 14884486
Private 2 packets = 21492, total bytes = 21470508
Video 0 packets = 1126815, total bytes = 2270858748

[d4g]

Multiplexing
Info Multiplexing VOB Main Stream
Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 594654, SCR 594699)
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (sword.scn-SWORD_D2V-VFAPI-t_t.vob).
Error Total bitrate is too HIGH. Please reduce the stream bitrate or the number of stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.
Info Multiplexing failed, Track<SWORD_D2V-VFAPI-t>

Error MuxFromDB:MuxVTS failed
Error Multiplex failed
Error DVD files could not be created
why did i get this error and how do i fix it?

[Eyes`Only]

Ok you are probably right. I just took a look at my Scenarist generated .ifos and noticed it creates a new VobID for every Title. I take it SpruceUp doesnt do this?

As for #2, I never experience this problem.. wonder why?

Looking forward to that updated ifoupdate from you!

Regards,

EO

[jdobbs]

In SpruceUp a VOB is created for each file you import, but it also creates each in a separate VTS, so they (I think) all have VOB ID #1. The way I'm trying to work around this is to have IFOUpdate analyze the original stream and recreate it within the multiple chapters that are created as you mentioned.

[d4g]

hi all the extra stuff on the movie like previews and logos are on the main movie vobs...is that a seamless branch title i stripped the movie from the main movie vobs only with smart ripper how do u keep the menus with it

[Eyes`Only]

Everyone! Check this out! I've discovered a way to 'export/import' chapters from ChapterXtractor to CCE. And to top it off, it's simple, and the solution was right under our noses the whole time. Simply:

1) set up CCE with your .avi and all your preferred settings, then save the .ecl file and close CCE.

2) Open chapterxtractor, open your .ifo file. Go to the format tab.

3) Select an unused preset, rename it to CCE (or whatever you want). Edit the format of this preset to this next line:

chapter=%f:

4) hit the 'save preset' button to refresh the window with your new preset. You should now see a list of chapters that looks like this:

chapter=0:
chapter=1234:
chapter=1892:
etc...

5) Highlight all these lines, right click and copy.

6) Open the .ecl file you created earlier, using a text editor.

7) Paste the lines you copied from ChapterXtractor into the end of the .ecl file.

8) Open CCE back up and open your .ecl. Check your chapters, they're all there!

[SquareEyes]

Did what you send regarding chapters. They appear in CCE. However, I have now re-encoded the file and when I import into Scenarist, no sign of chapters. What did I miss?

[mikegun]

... with spruceUp

regards,

mike

[jdobbs]

All a "chapter" is in CCE is a point at which an "I" frame is forced and a new GOP is started. It only relates to a true chapter in Scenarist or SpruceUp by the fact that you can now be assured that the exact frame of the original movie is available as a chapter point when you author. You still have to set those chapter points in the authoring package.

[Eyes`Only]

Yes, as Jdobbs stated, when you set the chapter in CCE you are forcing an i-frame to be inserted in the video at that point, ensuring that that exact frame will be 'snapped-to' when you set the chapter in your authoring program. Unfortunately, I have not as of yet heard of, nor devised on my own, a way to export these points and then have them already set in an authoring program such as Scenarist or SpruceUp. I did, however, discover a way to do it with Maestro, which Doom9 then included in his guide at http://www.doom9.org/mpg/maestro.htm.

[ChrisBensch]

After following the ifoedit/cce/maestro or scenarist guides, I run Get VTS Sectors and use Maestro to create a Disc Image, then use DVD Decrypter to burn. I've also tried using Nero and get the same issue:

When inserted into my standalone (Pioneer DV-535), the display on the player sits at "SEARCH" and never does anything after that. I know for a fact it will play burned DVD-R(W)'s as I've made 1:1 copies that play fine. I've run the DVD through WinDVD and on one disc, the VIDEO_TS.VOB stuff plays and then it hangs forever. Anyone have any ideas???

[SquareEyes]

Try using something other than nero. I had similar issues. Moved over to Pressi and all fine

[d4g]

i use gear pro dvd 6.0 to burn images...from ifo edit works great
never any isues

[Cayne]

is this ifoupdate tool only for the spruceup method or working with scenarist also?

was a little bit confused by the d:\SpruceUpImage\ default setting for the path.

[jdobbs]

It's for use with any authoring package. I've used it with SpruceUp, Scenarist, DVD Maestro, and ReelDVD. That just happens to be the last path I used before zipping it up. If you unzipped the .INI file you can change to your own individual path and it will be saved.

[jdobbs]

All,

Attached is a new version of IFOUpdate. This one:

1. Adds an option in which only Cell Info is updated (for special circumstances, cells are updated independent of destination PGC).

2. Adds a switch under menu options that also copies the VTS_C_ADT table during update (default is ON). There were problems encountered by a couple of users that may have been related to the fact that this table was never updated in the CCE/IFOEdit method.

3. Adds standard file browsing dialogs to make it easier to use.

jdobbs

[Eyes`Only]

Thanks Jdobbs. Your continued efforts to the perfection of our chosen method are well appreciated by myself, as well as many others!

[jdobbs]

Thanks. Let me know if there is something else you'd like to see in it.

[Eyes`Only]

Actually, I was just thinking of something several posters have had problems with. Can you have it copy subtitle color information for each PGC?

[jdobbs]

That should be easy enough. Since I don't copy subtitles I haven't paid a lot of attention to this one, is it just a matter of grabbing the color table located at 00A5 - 00E3 in each PGC from the newly authored IFO into the original?

(Edited: It is actually a 64 byte table from 00A4 - 00E3) My thanks to mpucoder for his great DVD-Video Information site.

[jdobbs]

Eyes' Only,

Done. Attached is another version that also copies the color tables from the newly authored IFO to the Original. Again it is on the Options menu and it is ON by default (I don't see how it could hurt anything).

jdobbs

[Eyes`Only]

Sweet! One less manual step to do... Doom9 should have your program in his download section... it's so useful, especially since no one I know can figure out the copy ifo feature that is supposed to be in the new IfoEdit!

[jarret3]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Interesting New Info!

[jdobbs]

Just for everyone's information when using IFOUpdate. Someone else reported (TRILIGHT?) that they'd run into problems and suggested the inclusion of the VTC_C_ADT table. I've found that SmartRipper appears to use that table when it is ripping individual PGCs/Angles -- for that reason I'd suggest you always leave that option on. I may just remove it as an option and make it a part of the normal process.

Also note: When you choose the "Copy Cell Info Only" checkbox -- neither the color tables nor the VTC_C_ADT tables are copied. That option is there for the specific purpose of copying sequential cell information regardless of PGC structure only.

jdobbs

[Doom9]

@jdobs: how about also offering the possibility to copy cells and VOB IDs? I have a title here that has a large number of PGCs that are just linked to cells of another pgc so it would be nice if I didn't have to re-create all the PGCs, just the one containing all the required cells.

[jdobbs]

Doom9,

Let me see if I have it right. You want it to copy the cells sequentially (like the Copy Cells Only does now -- which includes playback time, entry point, start sector, and end sector) but also updates the "Cell Position in VOB" table from the newly authored file to the original?

jdobbs

[malzahn]

for those who don't want to set the chapter points in scenarist manually I created a standard scenarist script and a little script for chapterextractor.

instructions:

- replace the org. chapterextractor ini file with the ini from the attached zip file
- in chapterextr. open the ifo file, choose preset scenarist and save the information as a txt file
- open this txt file ,copy all the txt into clipboard
- open the scenarist script in the attached zip file with an editor, paste the txt from the clipboard at the place I marked (before pasting delete the text I wrote), save the scenaristscript file (ending *.scp)
- import the new scenaristscript into scenarist (don't forget to name the project, or you'll get an error message )

the scenarist script will create a placeholder in the trackeditor with all the original chapter points, so what to do is only to import your new encodet video into the data editor and then drag and drop your imported video file into the placeholder in the track editor.
at least (after importing audio subtitles etc.) drag and drop the video track into the scenario editor and change the standard output path in layout editor.
that's all.

malzahn

[malzahn]

Uups,any idea why the attached zip doesn't appear, its only 5 KB ?
the board says "invalid zip file" ?

[Eyes`Only]

How would this work for complex ifos where pgc1 has several chapters that have more than one cell in them? Chapterextractor doesnt show anything but the last cell in those chapters.. therefore your ifo would be totally messed up and ifoupdate wouldn't work on it?(!)

Not to mention that chapterxtractor only shows 1 pgc at a time (why? i dunno) so how would you do say 47 pgcs like some ifos have? And how do you specify new pgc in the script? This seems like it has some useful function, but right now is only really useful for non-powerusers that do main movie only and dont care if chapters work all that well or not. I mean, I have yet to see a new movie that doesnt have multiple cells in a couple of chapters.. i don't think they even make them anymore!

Not to be pessimistic, as I'm waiting for the day someone figures this out correctly, but this doesn't seem 'ready' for us yet, in it's current state. Maybe someone can dig deeper into it and figure out how it can work for us powerusers?

OK I just took a look at the script (before approving it, as i obviously have to check them), and here's things I noticed that are mentionable since several powerusers will want to change them.

1) subtitle colors are pre-entered. I set mine custom depending on the movie, so I guess I'd have to export my settings and overwrite this preset stuff.

2) Region code 7 not allowed. Easy enough to change, but can I ask why it's not allowed in this script?

Other than this, this is a brilliant bit of detective work, Malzahn! Could you please show us how to incorporate multiple PGCs into it? And mult cells per chapter would be great, but i guess we could always enter those in ourselves, after analyzing the ifo with ifoedit. Mult PGCs is a must though, since many movies have pgc1 with one chapter, pgc2 with one chapter, then pgc3 is actually the main movie and has 20+ chapters.

Thanks!

[malzahn]

@ Eyes`only

your objections about the "script method" are partly justified and I'll try to answer your questions.

multiple pgcs:

It's possible to create a scenarist script for multiple pgcs, but it's not useful because chapterextractor does only read one pgc of the opened ifo (normally the chapters/cells of the main movie)like you mentioned, and you would have to create as many scenarist scripts as pgcs. nevertheless I show you how to modify the script for 2 pgcs:

open the scenarist script and have a look at this part:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Object=Data Folder
{
Name=Data
Data=List
{
}
}
Object=Track Folder
{
Name=Tracks
Tracks=List
{
Item=Video Track
{
Name=Video-Track
Display Mode=Only Letterbox
Audio Streams=List
{
}
Sub-Picture Streams=List
{
}
Scenes=List
{<-paste the text from chaptextr txt. file here and delete this text
}
}
}
}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

and now the script for 2 pgcs:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Object=Track Folder
{
Name=Tracks
Tracks=List
{
Item=Video Track_1
{
Name=Video-Track
Display Mode=Only Letterbox
Audio Streams=List
{
}
Sub-Picture Streams=List
{
}
Scenes=List
{<--------------------- paste the text from chapterextractor txt. file for pgc_1 here and delete this text
}
}
Item=Video Track_2
{
Name=Video-Track
Display Mode=Only Letterbox
Audio Streams=List
{
}
Sub-Picture Streams=List
{
}
Scenes=List
{<--------------------- paste the text from chapterextractor txt. file for pgc_2 here and delete this text
}
}
}
}
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so for 57 pgcs you have to create a script with 57 "video items", but since chapterextractor doesn't support multiple pgcs this is not useful.
anyway there's no limitation to create additional videotracks for multiple pgcs in scenarist, just import the demuxed video/audio files into the track editor after importing the scenarist script, and drag and drop the different videotracks from the track editor to the title folder in the scenario editor in the right order for creating the same pgc structure as the structure in the original vobs.
most movies have only one chapter in the additional pgcs, so this way is less work than creating a specific scenarist script for every possible case. If the additional pgcs have more then one chapter you have to set them manually.

cells/chapters:

it's not possible to make a difference between cells and chapters with the little scenarist preset script I wrote for the chapterextractor, this is another limitation of chapterextractor, but since ifoupdate vers. 0.2 it's not necessary to create the cells points in scenarist any more,only the chapter points should be enough. (I've noticed no problems yet)
But if you need the chapter points too, there is a way to do it:

- open the ifo in chapterextractor
- goto "customize" and mark all the additional cells
- save as txtfile and do the same procedure I described in my first post
- in scenarist drag and drop the videotrack into the title folder in the scenario editor (after importing the videofile to the placeholder in the track editor)
- make the chapters which are cells in the org. vobs to cells like doom 9 described it in his CCE/ifoedit guide

subtitles:

the subpicture settings are only default settings, they are the same if you create a new project. if you import a sst subtitle script the values are changed to the settings in the fileheader of the sst script. you can change these values in scenarist after opening the sst script in scenarist and before importing in the little asset window too ( doubleclick the folder conversion rule/display start in the asset window).
so this should not be a problem.

region code

change the value for the region code 7 if you want, it makes no difference I suppose (I didn't write the whole script with a editor) :) btw. which region code is region 7 ??
you can also delete the text at the top for the place holder in the data editor, so that it looks like this:

------------------------
Object=Data Folder
{
Name=Data
Data=List
{
}
}
------------------------

my intention was to find a simple solution for importing chapters in scenarist without programming by myself. it works for most titles, but it's not perfect, I know, but for a perfect solution you have to write a program which is able to parse ifos correctly and to create a specific scenarist script, anyone here who wants to write this programm? You're welcome. :D

regards malzahn

[Doom9]

@jdobbs.. I'm not sure if my suggestion is even necessary or if it does make sense.. I will first have to finish the project I'm currently working on.. then I will know for sure if there's any useful additions to be made to your program.. I'll keep you updated.

@malzahl: could you mail your program to submission@doom9.org? I'll then try to attach it here myself.

[jdobbs]

Doom9,

Just let me know and I'll make changes...

jdobbs

[Doom9]

@jdobbs: working on something else now (I'm at another place.. not the same setup).. but it's doubtful that I'm going to have any results soon.. 2 finals next week, and it goes on like that.. my exam plan is horrible.
Anyway.. so I'm checking out this ifo I have (Swordfish, R2) and I'm wondering.. what ifo entries does ifoupdate copy in the various modes?

about the vob ids.. in VTS_PGCITI, the various PGC entries.. the last part (Cell positions in VOB).. are they being changed? Sometimes that would be rather practical.. it may be much easier to reconstruct a movie if you don't have to make sure that every vob id, cell and pgc matches (at least order-wise and where you put what)..

[jdobbs]

Doom9,

That table (with VOB info) is copied in the standard mode so you don't have to make sure everything exactly matches the original. But it isn't copied in "Cell Only" mode. In the standard mode the program first does some error checking (is it really an IFO?, etc.) then it:

1. Aborts if there are more PGCs in the new IFO than the original (they won't fit). It only warns you if there are more PGCs in the original than the new IFO.

2. Backs up the original IFO to the backup directory.

3. If checked (default) it copies the VTS_C_ADT table from the new file to the original.

4. Loops through the PGCs. It uses the PGC count in the newly created IFO as its loop counter. That creates a situation in which only the first 1-n PGCs are copied (sometimes when you use SpruceUp you can update only the first PGC and ignore the rest). For each PGC it:

a. Warns, but doesn't stop, if the number of Chapters doesn't match -- the new IFO's chapter count becomes the reality.
b. Warns, but doesn't stop, if the PGC playback times don't match. The new IFO's playback time becomes the reality.
c. If the Color option is checked (default) it copies the PGC's color tables.
d. Changes the number of programs in the original to match the number in the new IFO
e. Changes the number of cells in the original to match the number in the new IFO
f. Copies the entire set of the program map, cell playback, and cell position tables from new to original. (This was the part you asked about).
g. Corrects the Cell Playback Information Table Start Byte pointer to match the new reality.
h. Corrects the Cell Position Information Table Start Byte pointer to match the new reality.

-- Note any hard errors cause the backed up IFO to be restored.

5. When done with all PGCs, it then updates the .BUP from the fixed .IFO file.

When Cell Only Mode is checked. The program very simply loops through all the PGCs in the new IFO and copies cell information from the Cell Playback Tables into the next sequential Cell in the original -- it ignores the PGC structures involved.

Hope that helps. The only reason you really need to have the number of chapters and chronological position match is so the DVD's Chapter Selection Menu will correctly identify the ones you've created. IFOUpdate doesn't care, though, that's all in how you author it (as long as you don't create MORE chapters so they wouldn't fit in the IFO tables). Same with Cells -- less is okay, more is not.

jdobbs

[jdobbs]

Just one other note: if I knew everything that IFOEdit does when it does "Get VTS Sectors" I could add that sequence to IFOUpdate and we could do this entire process in one step!!!

jdobbs

[Dolphin's Mind]

Hi jdobbs!

Thanx alot for your nice little proggi. It saves a lot of time for me (and I'm sure for lots of others too). Just a little thing I found out:

The "VTS_TMAPTI" Table "Video Title Set Time Map" ist not updated/replaced by Ifo-Update.
That's not so important for a standalone Player, but when you scroll through the movie with i.e. PowerDVD (not with chapter-jumps) it happens that near the end of the movie the player jumps back to the dvd-menu because of faulty search-pointers.
So what I did was manually (hex-edit) replacing the original table with the newly authored one and everything works perfect.

So I think to make our DVD's and Ifo-Update more perfect it would be nice if You can implement this feature in Ifo-Update.

Dolphin's Mind

(sorry posted this in mistakte as a new thread first, so please ignore)

[jdobbs]

Dolphin's Mind,

Thanks. This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping to collect. I'm working on it now...

jdobbs

[jdobbs]

Dophin's Mind and All,

I found an interesting quirk while working this option. I'd been doing my multiple PGC authoring with ReelDVD (because it's easy) rather than Scenarist recently. I modified IFOUpdate and ran it as a test, only to get an error. In investigating I found that the table was empty in the newly created IFO. It looks like ReelDVD leaves this table blank by default!

Anyone know why at least one authoring package doesn't think this table (VTS_TMAPTI) is necessary? Also, are there any ReelDVD experts who can tell me if there is an option I'm missing?

Thanks,
jdobbs

[jdobbs]

All,

As was suggested by Dolphin's Mind, attached is a new version (0.42) of IFOUpdate that has an additional option to transfer the VTS_TMAPTI table. The default is ON. It gives you a warning and doesn't copy if the newly authored files doesn't have the table available.

jdobbs

[dweeb]

Hi. Great work by jdobbs but where is the attachment?

D.

[ChrisBensch]

I picked up this little idea from the forum and I must say, I'm very pleased. One thing I run into though is that after I start to recreate the cell structure that exists in the original IFO(scenario editor), I start seeing errors in the log window saying:

Error Scene duration shall be more than 0.4 second.

Any idea what this could be? The movie I'm making is The Others, NTSC using the IFOEdit/CCE method. When manually creating the cell points I have no problems, but with this script there's something up. Then, during the build process, I get to 34% and Scenarist dies with an "Application has encountered a problem..." and that's it.

Any ideas?

[jdobbs]

Dweeb,

It always takes a day or so for the attachment to show -- it has to be "approved" I guess by the moderator.

jdobbs

[TRILIGHT]

I spend so much time in the other forum, I almost forgot this thread was here! GREAT information from everyone! It's nice to see the process becoming more streamlined.

[Eyes`Only]

Trilight,

Great job with the DVD-9 -> DVD-5 using Maestro method you described in detail in your other posting! That method should help many people with their journeys that use Maestro. Interesting technique you used to get subtitles synched correctly. I never would have thought to try that! I originally learned with Maestro, and had many problems with subtitles. Unfortunately, the way Maestro likes to show you that it doesn't like your subtitles is by performing an illegal error and shutting down, which drove me away from it. I may give your method a try just to see if it solves my previous issues.

I have not used Maestro lately since I didn't think it had the ability to easily do multiple titles (TTNs) or PGCs. Have you discovered an innovative method around this limitation?

Eyes`Only

[Dolphin's Mind]

Hi jdobbs,

thanx alot for the new IFOUpdate - I will try it with my next authored movie.

and you are very faassstttt :)

If I find other things that would be useful to be integrated in your nice proggi, I will let you know ... ;)

Oh, and I forgot to tell that I used scenarist to author - it seems to create 100% "dvd-correct" IFO- & VOB-Files.

Dolphin's Mind

[malzahn]

@ ChrisBench

some titles have a chaptermark at the last frame(s) of the film.
I suppose this is the problem you have. So the resulting length of the scene time is too short, scenarist doesn't accept this.

solution:

- delete the last scene of the videotrack in the track editor
- set another new chapter point a little bit earlier, so that the reulting scene time is longer then 0,4 s.

the last chapter have no references in the chapter menu, so these changes shouldn't cause any problems.

hth

malzahn

[TRILIGHT]

@Eyes Only

Thanks! I'm glad you liked the guide. I figured it might help cut back on a lot of the posts some people have like "how do I make an exact copy"? hehe ;)

Anyway, I'm afraid I don't understand fully what you mean by Maestro only creating one PGC. I have Scenarist but, honestly, I just haven't had time to play with it enough to learn it's intricacies. Especially considering I've yet to run across something that I could not do with Maestro. Perhaps since I've never tried a seamless branching title? I must admit that, so far, my knowledge of DVD authoring is just enough to do what I want to do. Guess I haven't gotten really complex yet.

[Eyes`Only]

Hmm how to explain multiple PGCs... Well, first of all let me start by saying I can't believe you've never attempted to do a movie with multiple PGCs! All Warner Bros DVDs have them, and if you don't recreate them exactly like the original ifo, it never seems to work.

An ifo with multiple pgcs will look something like this:

PGC_1 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 4) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:05:01.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:05:01.14] [Frames: 7539]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] : time: 00:07:42.20 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:12:44.09] [Frames: 26648]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] : time: 00:10:10.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:22:54.20] [Frames: 61018]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] : time: 00:06:05.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:28:59.24] [Frames: 104517]

PGC_2 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 2)
[Ch 02] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:07:42.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:07:42.17] [Frames: 11567]

PGC_3 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 3)
[Ch 03] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:10:10.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:10:10.14] [Frames: 15264]

PGC_4 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 4)
[Ch 04] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:06:05.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:06:05.01] [Frames: 9126]

PGC_5 (program chain): (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 5)
[Ch 05] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] : time: 00:09:32.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:09:32.00] [Frames: 14300]


Each PGC is usually in a different title (PGC2 is in TTN 2, for instance), and when recreating them using Scenarist, you need a separate .m2v for each pgc. I haven't figured out how to recreate this structure in Maestro, and also from what I've gathered from jdobbs, it doesn't seem possible in SpruceUp either.

[TRILIGHT]

Wow! I just checked. Would you believe I really haven't done a WB title yet? I would have done "Proof of Life" recently but Netflix screwed up and the disc in the sleeve was "101 Dalmations"!! Anyway, I just continued with my rental queue. I have "Devil's Advocate" and "Twister" in my queue but have not gotten to them yet. I guess I'm in for a pain-in-the-ass surprise when I get to them. That or, like you said, I'll share some ingenious way of doing it in Maestro. :) Of course, it may also force my hand into finally learning Scenarist. Ugh! Not looking forward to that.

[jdobbs]

There HAS to be a way to do multiple PGCs in Maestro... It's hard to believe a professional package that is often compared to Scenarist can't????

But I just spent an hour trying to do it and couldn't find a way. Anyone know how to use Playlists? That seems to be a possibility.

[ChrisBensch]

Well, after playing with this script I still can't seem to get it perfect. So here's what I've done to rememdy it. I started with a blank Scenarist scene, added my video stream, added my audio stream, added the video track, added the audio to that track. Then I exported the scenario to a script. I used the modified ini in ChapterXtractor to create the cells I'd need, then because when you add the video stream to create a new track, it automatically creates a cell at 00:00:00:00, I replaced it with the info from chapterxtractor and saved. THen, I opened up scenarist and clicked "New from Script" button, used my new script, then used the scenario editor to recreate the cell/chapter structure, and now I'm going to build. Seems to be working so far, and only a few more steps than your method...yet works perfect...so far. I'll post my final outcome soon.

[ChrisBensch]

Well, the build process went off without a hitch, I'm using DVDMaestro to build a DVD image from my files which I burn with DVDDecrypter. Seems fine so far...I'll let you knwo how it plays later.

[jdobbs]

To everyone who uses IFOUpdate,

I've noticed an error in the latest version of IFOUpdate (v0.42). Apparently updating the VTS_TMAPTI table can cause an inconsistency that results in an error when you run "Get VTS Sectors" in IFOEdit. You can fix it temporarily by unchecking that option (the last one) in the Options menu.

The error indicates a mismatch with ID_VTS_VOBU_ADMAP. I will attempt to add an update to that table as well and see if it fixes this.

Thanks,
jdobbs

[Eyes`Only]

jdobbs,

about the mult PGC thing in Maestro-- yeah I've often tried to convince myself that there is a way to do it, but I still haven't found one. You'd think that a $35,000 program could do it. Surely someone knows something we don't??! :)

I've used many many features in Maestro too. I built an entire menu from scratch, learned how to navigate menus and cause certain actions with each button, how to integrate sound into menus, etc. I've done subtitling, mult audio, mult .m2v files in one vts, but I have no idea how to do mult PGCs!

Haven't seen the ID_VTS_VOBU_ADMAP error yet.. I did GET VTS SECTORS and it went just fine.

Twilight,

No DVD you've done so far has had multiple PGCs? That's quite a record you have going there!

[jdobbs]

It doesn't seem to do it every time. I am seeing the error on "The Shipping News" -- it's weird, and IFOEdit seems to make the IFO shrink when it sees it.

[jdobbs]

Eyes' Only,

I've found (with others help) that you can create multiple PGCs in Maestro with the Playlist option. But you have to create a single M2V and audio file for the entire set and mark the start of the PGCs like chapters. That means, though, that you couldn't mix 16:9 and 4:3 video. You also have to delete the default PGC from the beginning or you will always get one more (long) PGC than you planned.

jdobbs

[Irish]

okay this thread contains more info/ideas then I would have believed possible...however there are a few things I remain terribly unclear on:
1. using robshot method...do you enter chapters in ccesp from chapterXtracter or do you enter them in maestro or both.
2. the assets I have on hand are one big m2v, a .son file,a million subtitle bmps, 4 ac3 files, a .chp file. Even after reading every post in this thread(took a long while) I am in serious doubt of how I make one big m2v back into vobs so I do not lose either sync,chapter points, or extras.
3. Theres a ton of info in doom9s guides and here but I seem to run across holes here and there and would really like to patch them possibly even organizing them so others may read them...I dont care about credits just about making as close to perfect rips as possible.
4. thanks to all the people who make this site/forum such a dominant place for new information...I think I downloaded 4? versions of the same program yest reading this thread(ifoupdate)hehehe.

[jdobbs]

Irish,

I can help a little.

1. The robshot method. The "real" chapters are created in the authoring package (Maestro). But if you want to be perfect, you can use the chapter information when creating the M2V from CCE to make sure your chapters are accurate to the frame. When working with MPEG video many functions are only accurate to the nearest I-Frame (and there is normally only one I-FRAME in each GOP) -- chapters in CCE assures that the frame you want to be the start of a chapter is actually an I-Frame).

2. Pulling the separate files (M2V, CHP, AC3s, etc) together into a set of VOBs is the job of the authoring package (e.g. Maestro). If you follow the method -- and correct AC3 delays (using AC3Corrector) they will amazingly stay in sync). Those of us who got involved early on in VCD and SVCD rips remember when audio/video sync seemed to be impossible. It is really frustrating to try and correct it.

3. This method is evolving. Given a little time you will see it get more automated and easy. It has already happened in SVCD creation. That's okay for the folks who just want to copy... but for some of the folks in this forum that's where the fun ends. Prerecorded DVDs are cheap -- the challenge is in understanding and discussing the technology involved!

4. Sorry about the constant IFOUpdate changes. It just seems that someone runs across another way to make it better every day.

I can say you've come to the right place for good video information. Doom9 is a place where you can actually cross paths with the smart guys (it is amazing how well DERROW and MPUCODER understands the IFO structure -- I wish I could only BEGIN to express the gratitude I feel for their incredible independent research into DVD structure!!!)

jdobbs

[Irish]

Jdobbs I was actually VERY pleased that you were on the ball and revising it seemingly every 10 minutes. That means I will be able to have a better tool and won't need to do as much grunt work.
thanks
Irish

[Inter]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Irish,

I can help a little.

1. The robshot method. The "real" chapters are created in the authoring package (Maestro). But if you want to be perfect, you can use the chapter information when creating the M2V from CCE to make sure your chapters are accurate to the frame. When working with MPEG video many functions are only accurate to the nearest I-Frame (and there is normally only one I-FRAME in each GOP) -- chapters in CCE assures that the frame you want to be the start of a chapter is actually an I-Frame).

2. Pulling the separate files (M2V, CHP, AC3s, etc) together into a set of VOBs is the job of the authoring package (e.g. Maestro). If you follow the method -- and correct AC3 delays (using AC3Corrector) they will amazingly stay in sync). Those of us who got involved early on in VCD and SVCD rips remember when audio/video sync seemed to be impossible. It is really frustrating to try and correct it.

3. This method is evolving. Given a little time you will see it get more automated and easy. It has already happened in SVCD creation. That's okay for the folks who just want to copy... but for some of the folks in this forum that's where the fun ends. Prerecorded DVDs are cheap -- the challenge is in understanding and discussing the technology involved!

4. Sorry about the constant IFOUpdate changes. It just seems that someone runs across another way to make it better every day.

I can say you've come to the right place for good video information. Doom9 is a place where you can actually cross paths with the smart guys (it is amazing how well DERROW and MPUCODER understands the IFO structure -- I wish I could only BEGIN to express the gratitude I feel for their incredible independent research into DVD structure!!!)

jdobbs

why do you have to correct AC3 delays?
I thought maestro used timecodes or something.

[jdobbs]

If you correct the delays then you have good sync no matter how you remultiplex... including Maestro, SpruceUp, ReelDVD etc.

[Pedro Gouveia]

Jdobbs --> about creating multiple PGC's in Maestro

U may also create 1 less playlist than your needed PGC's and lower the number of cells used for the first PGC.

Example:

How to create a VOB with 4 PGC's in Maestro

(1)
Create 3 Chapters corresponding to the beginning
of each aditional PCG
In this case 3 chapters (chapter 2,3 and 4)

(2)
Create 3 playlists
playlist1 -> plays chapter 2
playlist2 -> plays chapter 3
playlist3 -> plays chapter 4

(3)
compile

(4)
U have
a VOB with 4 PGC's
PGC1 plays all chapters
PGC2 plays chapter 2
PGC3 plays chapter 3
PCG4 plays chapter 4

(5)
Edit PGC1 and lower the number of cells to the number of chapters u want in it (in this case 1).

(6) Done!
Now the vob has 4 PGC's
PGC1 plays chapter 1
PGC2 plays chapter 2
PGC3 plays chapter 3
PCG4 plays chapter 4


Another thing about your great program.
I have noticed that when in "copy cell info only" mode
the "cell_x: entry point sector" doesn't get updated.

Is it supposed to be that way?

Thanx a lot for your good work, saving all of us a lot of typing ;-)

[jdobbs]

Pedro Gouveia,

WOW. How did I miss that! You're absolutely right, the cell only mode wasn't writing the entry point (although it was reading it fine -- for what that's worth). No, it wasn't supposed to be like that. I've attached a new version with the bug fixed.

You will also notice that in this version the "VTS_TMAPTI Table Transfer" option is no longer defaulted to ON. If you click it, it is still available. I found what was wrong, by the way. This update changes the perceived end byte seen by IFOEdit (I update without actually truncating) and it senses that at an error. It only happens when there is a large discrepancy between the new and original tables.

jdobbs

[jdobbs]

Pedro Gouveia,

BTW. Thanks a lot for the tip on using Maestro to do multiple PGCs. I knew it had to be possible!

jdobbs

[Trahald]

hey.. just gonna quick post a procedure i did.. worked for a multi large pgc (which used some of the same cells) dvd

i just reencode the main m2v in cce (using chapter points to set iframes)

then setup laid the m2v and sound in scenarist per the guide. but i setup all the pgcs as they are in the origional meaning i laid them out as they appear in the origional ifo
draging the corresponding chapters ...
pgc1 =
[ch 01][pg 01][cell 01] v/c = 1/1
[ch 02][pg 02][cell 02] v/c = 1/2
[ch 03][pg 03][cell 03] v/c = 1/3

pgc2
[ch 01][pg 01][cell 01] v/c = 1/2
[ch 02][pg 02][cell 02] v/c = 1/4

pgc3
[ch 01][pg 01][cell 01] v/c = 1/1

pgc4
[ch 01][pg 01][cell 01] v/c = 1/3

etc
so i just setup pgc1 in scenarist - i drag from the track editor as follows
[PGC1]
| \ \
[ch 1] [ch 2] [ch 3]

[PGC2]
| \
[ch 2] [ch 4]

[PGC3]
|
[ch 1]

[PGC4]
|
[ch 3]

until its the same as origional (well as close as i can get it as long as the pgc and chapters are in the right order)

matching the above (origional) ifo
scenarist will indicate the segments dropped in pgc2 as being chapter [4 and 5] but thats ok.. cause were gonna use the origional ifo which is has the right references...


then build

ifoupdate (itll match the pgcs up nice and tidy)

getvts in ifoedit

and viola

plays PERFECT in windvd.. but it would be cool if ifoupdate had an option to strip vts_tmapti clean (cause .. as long as the old one is there powerdvd will follow it and not seek right (chapters will still work)). powerdvd will correctly play without it. windvd just ignores it and does fine)
(maybe some odd dvdplayers will not like it.. but i doubt it since alot of dvd authoring software doesnt even address that area)

[Trahald]

windvd doesnt ignore a wrong one either.. oops.. anyways.. i still liked to be able to erase it

[Trahald]

ok.. i found one ;) intervideo player ignores the vts_tmapti

[Eyes`Only]

The wookster strikes again! For those of you that don't know, Wook is a highly experience mpeg4 pro who has just recently decided to undertake the task of migrating to dvdr. Nice to have you participating in our thread Wook. The more qualified people we have working with us to perfect this method and our software available for our method the better!

Welcome to the dark side. :devil:

[jdobbs]

w00kiee,

I'll fix the way in which IFOUpdate updates VTS_TMAPTI tonight or tomorrow. I could also create an option to just dump the table (as some packages don't create it anyway) during the update. It shouldn't be that hard, I've just been lazy.

jdobbs

[hortar]

Hello,

I try the method and it works fine, but I have a problem with Star Wars Episode 1 R2, I can't get portuguese subtitles using subrip, for some stupid issue when I choose portuguese from drop down menu, the subtitles that I get are in other language and if a choose other I have no sucess however the film works well with subtitles in any player software including ifoedit, can I use other software to get subtitles and used in the method ?

P.S. - I'm using DVDDecrypter last version to rip all files.

Please help I'm a little desperate with this.

[Pedro Gouveia]

Hortar:
In SWEP1 the Portuguese subtitles stream is the stream nº17

U have to enable "show all 32 streams" in subrip

:)

Jdobbs:
Thanx for your quick fix on ifoupdate...
I'll try it later on my "Gladiator Remix"

:D

[jfmartins]

Sorry for the out off topic but i just got to say this:
TUGAS NO FORUM!!!!!! Salvem Mulheres e Crianças Primeiro!

[rui.m.godinho]

I'm a TUGA :) lol

Why encoded jobs with cce don't work well in PS2. After remuxing with scenarist and playing the dvd-r in the PS2 it gives me a lot of freeze frames (pauses, jumpy frames).
First I thought it was because of the media, but copying a original <4,3 gb movie to this media, they work well in the PS2.
So it got to be something about CCE. The movies that I'm encoding are Pal R2. I have to say that they work well in my standalone sony ns700v.

[hhanh]

Originally posted by Pedro Gouveia

(5)
Edit PGC1 and lower the number of cells to the number of chapters u want in it (in this case 1).


How do you do this step? Do you do that in Maestro?

Thanks

[rui.m.godinho]

I follow dooms guide "getting the best out of cce" and then I use scenarist.

Do I have to use min bitrate of 1000 ou 2000 ? Is it the GOP 3/4 ? Is it some option in the video settings that I shoudn't use or use ?

I'm also trying to find someone who had the same experience. Perhaps it maybe the media ? But the work well in method I described above ? I really don't understand. With Rempeg and TMPG, the movies work well in PS2 with this media (lead data).

[jdobbs]

1. I don't think the minimum bitrate matters, unless it is a Scenarist requirement I don't know about. I usually set it to 0.
2. The GOP is correct (3/4) and SEQ header every 1 GOP
3. Don't set GOP to 3/5 (it works however with SpruceUp)
4. Click the DVD Compliant checkbox unless you're going 352x480.

The PS2 problem could be the media, the firmware/software, or a combination of both. You're not the only person who has mentioned problems playing DVD-Rs on the PS2, there must be something peculiar about it. I don't have one, so I really can't say.

[rui.m.godinho]

Checking DVD compliant box, will make the max bitrate of 9800 and if I want to add 2 our more audio streams, the scenarist will give an error. So I uncheck the dvd compliant box and I'm always able to chose witch max bitrate I want.

[jdobbs]

All,

Attached [when ok'd by the moderator] is yet another version of IFOUpdate (V0.44). This one:

1. Adds a "Correct VTS Sectors" button. This saves you the trouble of having to do "Get VTS Sectors" through IFOEdit after your update. I've also added an option menu choice to do this automatically when you do an update. When you set this option it is "remembered" in the .INI file.

2. Added a couple of boundary checks on table copies to make sure the program never accidentally overwrites.

3. Added a "Dump VTS_TMAPTI" option. This very simply puts a zero in the sector pointer so there appears to be no table (it doesn't actually delete it, though).

4. Moved the "Cell Only Mode" checkbox into the options menu.

Try it a couple times and back up your IFO and BUP files before you throw the old version away. I did some testing, but nothing extensive.

I started this software to simply save the trouble of manually updating the parameters presented in the "Joseph2 IFOEdit/CCE" method of backing up a DVD. My initial goal was to limit changes to the original IFO so it would remain fairly close to its beginning state. I'm running into limits by trying to stay within those bounds, though.

In my next version of IFOUpdate I plan to change that -- I am going to use the two (Original and Newly Authored) IFO files as sources for data, and create a completely new IFO file as output. That way I can create pointers, etc. to match my desired output and I won't have to keep looking for ways to "trick" the system (like leaving unreferenced sectors in the IFO).

My hat is off to the real experts, Derrow and mpucoder, who have done so much research and provided the great information on their websites. I'd be clueless without it (of course it could be argued that I'm clueless anyhow).

jdobbs

[TRILIGHT]

Awesome work, Jdobbs!! Thanks for your time! I've approved the attachment so it should be available for download now.

[jarret3]

Man, this method is able to be so easily done now that all these new programs have been made, especially jdobbs program. Although, the one step that i dread, as im sure most others do, is entering the chapter points in Scenarist. Especially considering the fact that they are off in drop frame. Eyes knows what i mean :) So who is going to make an easy program to fix this :D

Jarret

For those of you who don't know, im the first one to respond to this post... "Uhhhhh what do u edit the ifo files with?" DUH! :)

[jdobbs]

All,

Attached is a new version of IFOUpdate, I haven't changed the way I do it yet as promised, but thought I'd get this out since I found a bug. Let me know if there is anything else you'd like to see incorporated into the software. My goal is to make this method the easiest possible.

Here are the changes in this version:

- Discovered a silly "type mismatch" error - fixed it

- Added additional sector checks to the "Correct VTS Sectors" to make it closer match "Get VTS Sectors." I noticed that even though it shouldn't happen, the values of VMGM_VOBS, VTSM_VOBS, and VTSTT_VOBS sometimes would be incorrect after a copy from the DVD (e.g. "All the Pretty Horses"). At any rate they get corrected now.

The attachment should show as soon as it's approved.

[Eyes`Only]

Man, I used malzahn's script method once with perfect results. Now, with a different dvd, I've tried it 3 times and everytime Scenarist crashes in the first third of the compiling. I wish this program was more stable! Guess I have to input all the cells by hand :*(

(just venting.. needed to let it out)

[jdobbs]

Eyes Only,

I personally switched to using ReelDVD to do the multiple PGC titles. I break them out separately in SmartRipper, use CCE, and then just drag-and-drop them into ReelDVD. If you link them (NXT) they will be a single VTS with multiple PGCs. Then I can cut and paste the chapter points (DVDMaestro formatted) from ChapterXtractor into ReelDVD... it takes five minutes tops. It is really, really easy. I ignore the cell formatting as IFOUpdate doesn't care...

jdobbs

[Coop920]

this is a basic question to everyone....i just did the movie Amilea (ntsc)...3 sub streams in it...when i tested the image (ifoedit image) with daemon tools all 3 sub streams show up fine...so i burned the image, and tried it in my dvd player (toshiba)..subs do not appear, even when i select em in the menu...yet the subs apear when the dvdr is played in all pc dvd-rom's/dvd burners...what could possibly be wrong ?

-Coop

i am posting in this thread cause obviously i used the cce/scenarist method...also i use jdobbs ifoupdate .45 so maybe that had something to do with it ;)

[roman_modin]

Can anybody explain to me, why does subrip rips subtitles from original vob files with the incorrect time stamps?

I mean right at the beginning of the movie sound is perfectly in sync, as the movie goes along syncing goes in and out, sound is too fast or too slow. How come the time stamps are incorrect, and how can I fix that?

Thank you.

[Doom9]

that is not a subrip problem.. it's a pulldown problem.. you didn't properly set pulldown flags for all your sources (including the subs)

[roman_modin]

Originally posted by Doom9
that is not a subrip problem.. it's a pulldown problem.. you didn't properly set pulldown flags for all your sources (including the subs)

Could you elaborate on that? I am using subrip/subadjust/maestrosbt to import into scenarist... The time stamps that subrip gives are off by a few milliseconds... So by the end of the movie it is a lot. So again, my question is why does subrip rips with incorrect timestamp from the original dvd vob's (they are 29.76 frames per sec NTSC title).

[Doom9]

well.. if people like me and many others have no problems with subs using subrip then isn't it likely that you did something wrong rather than the program? I had asynch subs in the beginning too... but with some pulldown (read the pulldown manual) and scenarist import options (setting the dropdown flag for every asset you import) it can be done

on another note.. @ jdobbs: I get a "the original IFO's PGC area is not large enough to hold the new PGC" error using ifoupdate. attached you'll find the old and reauthored ifo. an additional note.. I used scenchap for the chapters so ifoupdate complains about the new ifo having more chapters than the old one.. could that be the source of my problems?

[jdobbs]

Doom9,

Yes that's the problem. You can have fewer chapters (programs) but not more with IFOUpdate. The program uses the space that was previously allocated in the original file for the updates. If I changed the size of the PGC area it would ripple through the IFO file and I'd have to change all the byte and local sector offsets.

When I finally get around to writing the version that recreates the file (rather than modifying the original) this shouldn't be a problem anymore.

jdobbs

Clarification: What I actually do is check the size of the original and new PGC areas -- it just happens that most of the time the size gets too large when you add an additional chapter.

[jdobbs]

All,

Attached is a new version of IFOUpdate (v0.46). As per a request from TRILIGHT I've added an option in which the audio and subtitle tables can be copied from the newly authored to the original file.

I've also fixed a bug that occurs when you run into an IFO that has the sector value "0" for VTSM_VOBS.

jdobbs

[jdobbs]

BTW. I set the audio/subs copy option to "off" by default until it has been tested thoroughly by everyone. I didn't put a lot of thought into the implications of copying (e.g. if your IFO somewhere references a stream ID that no longer exists in the tables after the copy). I think it should be fine, though.

If you think it might be useful to make it default to "on" just let me know and I'll change it.

jdobbs

[erwan]

jdobbs,
if i leave audio/subs copy option to "off", i get a movie without sound.
just to let you know...

another question : i use spruceup to reauthor my cce encoding video stream. but the chapter point setting part is quite boring :i'm working on star wars episode 1 and there is 47 chapters :(

could not it be possible to modify the sup file directly?
i did not manage to find the chapter's timecode yet but if so it would be way quicker to create chapters and timecode by writing it from a chapterextractor file.

keep the good work,
erwan.

[jdobbs]

If you get a movie without sound that means that the default stream ID is not the same as what you set in the newly authored file. If you're using SpruceUp that is 0x80. This often happens when the original file had a default DTS stream.

At any rate, I'll recompile and make the audio/sub copy the default, I think its been around long enough to assume its safe.

I would say it is definitely possible to modify the SUP file directly, but I personally don't have a clue as to the file format.

[oddyseus]

Well I thought u should hear this also,

There is another way to import multiple clips to cce for encoding with correct settings.

U will find attached a jpg, as soon as they are moderated the will show the procedure.

The 3d menu at CCE is Template. The default one is Standard. It contains all the settings that u are changing each time u insert a new clip to encode. Just click on it and it will open the settings window where u can change anything to your hearts desire.

In pic02 u can see how I changed the video set up to the one I want. Of course u can have multiple templates for 16:9, 4:3 etc formats.

After you set up GOP and Quality Settings as well you give a name to the template in field Title and click can "Add", or u can leave the name the template allready has and click replace.

Before importing a clip switch to the desired template et voila.

[Eyes`Only]

Thanks. I think most of us in this thread have been using templates for quite a while now, but if there's any that somehow never figured this out, this will help them. I personally have about 8 templates created for movies that are progressive&zigzag,progress&nozigzag,interlaced&4:3, etc.

The whole template thing is explained in Chapter 4 (Titled: "Template Settings") in the CCE guide, which anyone that is wanting to really 'know' CCE should have read multiple times by now.

Incidentally there's a few things wrong with your example that I'd like to correct so others don't try to mirror it and get errors.

1) Uncheck DVD Compliant, or if you try to do a full DVD with DTS and several audio tracks, you may run into the infamous bitrate error. Even though you have selected a max bitrate of 9000, checking DVD Compliant overrides this and sets it back to 9800. I have no idea why, I guess it's for n00bs. :P

2) Check Drop Frame, otherwise subs will be out of sync if you are using an NTSC DVD.

3) I get better color results with luminance at 0 to 255. Just a personal preference, I guess.

Regards,

Eyes`Only

[oddyseus]

Thank's Eyes' Only, allthough I havent met the bitrate error yet your remarks are welcomed and appreciated.

[roman_modin]

When you say check "Drop Frame," do you mean in CCE? If so, do you also check drop frame in Scenarist afterwards?

Thanks.

[roman_modin]

Another question about IfoUpdate.....

The original Ifo file has chapters but also it has cells, those have their addresses also. Why doesn't ifo update count them? Should we just skip them in scenarist? Because original ifo has timestamps for them also...

[Eyes`Only]

roman_modin,

1) Yes, you are correct. When using NTSC, select drop frame everywhere you can, in every program you use in order for correct syncing. Check the box in CCE, and select it on each dropdown box for video and audio file in Scenarist.

2) With ifoupdate, it is not neccessary to put multiple cells per chapter, as you have seen in many original ifos. Jdobbs has tested this, and I too have done many dvds without putting in the extra cells and have not seen any loss of functionality.

[jdobbs]

For those (like me) who are starting to get annoyed at having to check the option for "Copy Audio and Subpicture Tables" every time you run the program - here is an updated version of IFOUpdate (it will show when it is approved).

jdobbs

[roman_modin]

Sorry, this might be a stupid question, but...

"Copy Audio and Subpicture Tables" what exactly does that do? File produced by scenarist doesn't adhere to the timestamps in the original ifo?

Thanks.

[jdobbs]

When you reauthor the title, you may not necessarily keep all the audio and subtitle tracks. So the resulting IFO will contain information that is consistent with your new configuration. The old (original) IFO however, still identifies all the audio and subtitle tracks.

This function copies the tables (in the IFO Header and for each PGC) that identify the stream types and stream identifiers from the newly authored IFO to the original. That will sometimes prevent the situation where you go into the menu, select (for example) a Burmese audio track, and get no sound as the output -- instead it will simply ignore the change.

On the other hand, the goal is to modify the original IFO as little as possible so you don't unexpectedly affect the DVD flow in some way. So far I haven't gotten any negative feedback associated with this option, so I've defaulted it to "on."

[TRILIGHT]

I've had no problems with it. It works rather well. The only thing I've run into a problem with is when, say you want to keep the first and the third audio stream. Unfortunately, you have to play around with the stream numbers to make sure it is accessed properly in the menu selection. This isn't a fault of IFOupdate though. You'd have to do it manually anyway. I haven't looked into it closely but perhaps there is a way to have an "advanced" section or something that would ask you which streams you kept and in what order they were on your new IFO. Then it could copy that info to the appropriate place. Not too big of a deal though. Just an idea. I'm just fine doing it manually. Thanks for the great work, Jdobbs!!

[roman_modin]

The movie I am encoding is Pulp fiction...

I've read a lot from the guides and the other posts on the net...

Now the proble I have is this, everything works well, sound, subtitles etc. But the picture is shaky. When I check the movie the DCT type: setting is "Field", but the Frame type: is frame. I have tried both settings - frame and interlaced, but the picture is still shaky (it's still of a good quality, but shaky). Anybody got any clue of what settings should I use with CCE? Or what could be the problem? (I am using scenarist)

[rui.m.godinho]

You see shaky picture while playbacking in a settop or in the PC ? What bitrate did you use ? Are you refering to movie or extras ?

[roman_modin]

I had to use

pulldown.exe source.m2v target.m2v -nopulldown -tff even

on my video file, apparently it was originally progressive, and then pulldown was used on it, that is why it said that DTC:Field, while frame type: progressive.

I actually found this in the post about svcd conversion. Anyhow, thanks...

P.S. Shaky picture appears only on stand-alone player, it is on the movie itself (Pulp Fiction has no extras) and it happens everytime someone moves.

[roman_modin]

I've seen a lot of info on correct chapter settings in this thread.

Question: Has anybody been able to actually set chapters to adhere to the original chapter times without tweaking anything?

I've used ChapterXtractor, CCE, Scenarist, and ScenChap method, but still cannot get the correct chapters set. It seems that even chapter extractor is giving incorrect time (I've looked at the time codes in the original .ifo files with IfoEdit)..

Another question: How do you check your chapter points through the GUI of the CCE-SP 2.50?

Thanks.

[Eyes`Only]

From Page 7:
I've found a solution to this issue. Here's an example of what I do. Say the chapter is at (00:10:10:15). Set that scene in Scenarist. Double click on the scene that was just created. You will notice the top left timebox changes to a time that is slightly less than the time you set. In this example, that time is now (00:10:05.05). Now subtract this timebox from the time you original entered. ex. (00:10:10.15)-(00:10:05.05) = (00:00:05.10). Add this result to the time in the scene you set (00:10:10.15)+(00:00:05.10)=(00:10:15.25). Now change the scene you set to that result. ex. Change (00:10:10.15) to (00:10:15.25). The scene should now be exactly where the chapter on the original movie is. I've verified this by opening the movie in PowerDVD, playing it, pausing it, then using the 'next chapter' button and looking at the starting image for each chapter, and they match exactly using my method. Not sure if it works for PAL users, or if you even have this problem, but for NTSC it seems to correct the issue!

As you can see on page 7 of this thread, the incorrectness of Scenarist was discovered and dealt with. I show the formula for correction in the middle of that page, and later down the page you'll find a program that Jarret and I created that tells you the exact timecodes to use instead of the ones from the .ifo. It's not a pretty method, but it works for those certain DVDs where incorrect chapter settings just won't do.

I believe the method never caught on because of the awkwardness of the system, and the fact that for most DVDs, having chapters offsync isn't too terribly hard to live with. Two exceptions I've found to the rule are Final Fantasy and Memento, both of which perform terribly when the chapters aren't perfect.

If anyone could devise a program that could take the original ifo, and a Scenarist script, and regenerate a new Scenarist script based on the correct values, chaptering in Scenarist could be almost an exact science!

[daxab]

If anyone could devise a program that could take the original ifo, and a Scenarist script, and regenerate a new Scenarist script based on the correct values, chaptering in Scenarist could be almost an exact science!This is my current goal in life...Well, almost. ScenChap should do this already, as long as you use the Copy From IFO button or -- even better -- the Copy From D2F+IFO button.

Personally, I no longer use IFO time codes, since I've found them to be way off for some titles. The D2F file is more reliable, since it reflects the actual vob/cell boundaries, down to the actual GOP I-frame, that DVD2AVI is going to emit.

If ScenChap, using the D2F+IFO method, is not creating exact chapter points, I will try to fix it. So far I'm hearing little in the way of bug reports, which either means everyone is having good results with this, or, more likely, that no one is using this method, since it's not in the guide.

[daxab]

BTW, if you do want to use IFO time codes, then ScenChap should do them properly.

I think that what Eyes`Only's method boils down to is a change from non-drop time codes (which is what IFO files seem to contain) to drop-frame time codes (which is what NTSC Scenarist projects use, or should be using).

ScenChap does this conversion automatically, and it uses the original raw data in the IFO file itself (no cut & paste).

But, as I keep saying, time codes (frame numbers actually) from a D2F file are even better.

[Eyes`Only]

I will try this, but unfortunately i use an older version of dvd2avi (CLI support) and as far as I know the newer versions don't have this CLI support that i desperately need (I have batch files that automate the entire demuxing process, create avs, etc.) so I will have to have 2 separate dvd2avis installed i guess.

[roman_modin]

Guys sorry to bother you again, but

Anybody experienced shaky subtitles on a standalone?
If so, any solutiones, suggestions?

Thanks.

[dvdRENEGADE]

Obviously, there are problems with getting subs to sync when dealing with interlaced or hybrid material using Subrip .sst output. Any suggestions?

[eatinsammiches]

i always use CCE to encode but this time i wanted to encode with CCE and keep the original menu....

I followed Joseph2 method and everything worked PERFECT

the movie i did was blade 2

also i wanted to add that i used spruce-up to do the remux

just wanted to say thanx but the copy and pasting was a bitch but worth it

thanx again

[ghetto pornstar]

wow. this thread is awesome.

@eyes:

you wouldn't happen to be willing to share those batch files and perhaps let me in on a place where i can get the dvd2avi w/ CLI, wouldja?

if not, no worries, i understand :)

[Eyes`Only]

ghetto:

I'm getting ready to release this publicly, just trying to get up the gusto to do so haha.

I can give you a private copy if you'd like.

It's batch code, with supplied .exes to support it (including the CLI DVD2AVI). It also has right click support in explorer, etc. I've worked a long time on perfecting the functionality. My only concern is that I don't want people modifying my script and then propagating it out there, since if they don't know 100% what they're doing, they could really mess things up. If anyone experience programmer would like to work with me to port this to VB, I'd appreciate the help, since that's ultimately where I'd like to go with this.

[ghetto pornstar]

lol! i can't believe it. that is awesome...

this type of automation is exactly where we need to go. batch files are good, but you are right, easily messed with. perhaps vb would be a way to go. i understand. still, if you're willing to hook me up i'd appreciate it -- but i can also be patient until you release it, no pressure :)

[jdobbs]

@eyes only

Send me the batch files and I'll look at converting them to VB...

jdobbs

[Eyes`Only]

Jdobbs,

OK, will do after I finish some more testing with them. Incidentally I was wondering if you could incorporate something into ifoupdate that would eliminate a step for me. Could you make ifoupdate save the setting for 'copy audio and subpicture tables' in the .ini file? I rarely use that feature (as most authoring programs dont let you specify director commentary, and i hate using the word "ENGLISH" when I really want "DIRECTOR COMMENTARY") and would value not having to uncheck it every time i start the program because right now it is always checked at start, and sometimes i forget to uncheck it and then screw up my backup!

Thanks,

Eyes

[jdobbs]

Will do. It'll be in the next release.

[jdobbs]

@Eyes' Only

Done. Look for it in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34795). It, as well as the other changes, are explained in the README.TXT file.

jdobbs

[Eyes`Only]

Thanks, Jdobbs. You're program is invaluable, and your quick response as well as willingness to listen to our suggestions/problems says a lot for your character.

[Chumboy]

i read many replies talking about a comprehensive how-to about this thread.

there are so many trials, corrections, etc. on this thread, it is very difficult to follow.

has anyone put together a COMPLETE step by step once you guys have worked out all the bugs?

tia
chum

[PartyBeast]

I have run into a problem a couple of times where IFOUpdate modifies the cell/chapter structure when updating the IFO file. If there are multiple cells in a single chapter on the original IFO and authored IFO (cell structure kept identical to the original in the authored IFO), the IFOupdated IFO does not keep the same structure. To illustrate...

Authored IFO
chp 1: cell 1:
chp 2: cell 2:
chp 3: cell 4:
.....: cell 5:
chp 4: cell 6:
chp 5: cell 7:

Original IFO after IFOUpdate
chp 1: cell 1:
chp 2: cell 2:
chp 3: cell 3:
chp 4: cell 4:
chp 5: cell 6:
.....: cell 7:

I have been able to get around this by using IFOEdit to then correct this. I realize that it is not necessary to recreate the cell structure in the authored IFO, however, there have been a few cases where I did this to save space as multiple PGC's would access the same cell. Using the example above, PGC1 being the main movie with the structure above in vobid 1, and PGC2 also playing cell 5 in vobid 1 as well as other cells in other vobids. Instead of duplicating cell 5 of vobid 1, I would recreate the cell structure in the authored IFO.

In the last DVD I backed up, I also noticed that as a result of this, IFOUpdate created an additional program where the orginal and authored IFO's had for example 6 programs, the IFOUpdadated IFO had 7 programs. After editing the IFO with IFOEdit, the last two programs referenced the same cell.

I am not sure if I am doing something incorrectly with IFOUpdate, or is it even possible to maintain the same cell/chapter/program structure when using IFOUpdate.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

PB

[jdobbs]

@Partybeast

You're giving IFOUpdate more credit than it deserves. If the original IFO after update has a one-to-one chapter/cell relationship -- it has to be because that is the way it was authored in the newly authored IFO. IFOUpdate doesn't modify the chapter/cell structure, it simply copies it as it was created.

You can verify this by using IFOUpdate (or IFOEDIT) to review the authored IFO.

[-=ViBeZ=-]

Will this method work for the one pass option in CCE? This method certainly looks promising :D

Also - if I want to re-encode extras, how do I calculate the quality settings in cce. I can do it for the main movie but struggle when I have to work it out for multiple movies + multiple audio files.

[jdobbs]

With this method I have been able to back up every DVD I've tried -- all with complete menus. Yes it will work with single pass.

One of the reasons I recommend using the Robshot method (2 pass) is the fact that when adjusting bitrate you can what the resulting filesize will be...

[KYUSS]

probably gonna get flamed for this but.....where can i find info on the "robshot method"?

thanks

[TRILIGHT]

I hope you do get flamed too!!! Click the "search" button at the top and search for "Robshot Method link". Now how hard was that? I'm sorry if this seems like a rude reply but GEEZE!!!! In this day and age when practically EVERYONE at least knows what a web browser is, I find it so hard to understand why no one knows the value of a search engine or how to use it. What the hell did you people do in the days of the "card catalog" at the library?? You must have truly been lost.

[KYUSS]

its just that i did a search m8 and the robshot.com website is down...i thought it might have been relocated somewhere.

sorry:( :( :(

[TRILIGHT]

um...you STILL didn't read through the results, did you? I even told you what to search for! *sigh* Let me spell it out even further... 4th result...last post (by Doom9). If you still can't find it, then you should seriously reconsider tackling a DVD project because it's a lot more complex than navigating searches here on the forum.

[KYUSS]

no m8 i did find it but i was looking for the actual robshot site but i guess there isn't one anymore?


found and read the guide.

sorry for infuriating u m8.

it is christmas m8 cut me some seasonal slack?

[jdobbs]

I'm all for seasonal slack...

Happy Holidays everyone.

[TRILIGHT]

I'm a scrooge. :devil: Thank you. Drive through. :D I *did* however specifically point it out. No one said I had to be nice. Just helpful. hehehe

[jdobbs]

Bahh Hummbug. Untrue. Scrooge never wrote any guides. ;)

[waldok]

Indeed, Trilight, the guy who would call you "nice" is not born yet...

Stop harassing newbies, will you ? They are the hope of a renewal for your old tired generation (well, not all of them though...)

:D

Waldok :cool:

[TRILIGHT]

Harassing? Hardly. I personally read TONS of stuff for weeks before even trying anything. Not being able to find info on the "Robshot method" Do a search for it and tell me how much there is to read and if you are able to find info. It was an absurd question. Old and tired generation?? hehe I didn't even know the first thing about DVDR until I bought my burner about 8 months ago or so. Besides, if you were to really investigate the work done by myself and those of "my generation", I think you'll find we have the only *reliable* method of doing a full DVD9 to DVD5 backup. We also spend a great deal of time assisting people in real-time on IRC. Newbies who want to learn? I'm there for them. Newbies who don't even try and don't ask intelligent questions? They annoy me.

[waldok]

Alright, TRilight,

No need to justify, I was just teasing a bit.
I also learned a lot from these invaluable forums, on a subject I had never heard of a few months ago. So big up for all your guys.

Still, one must pay attention not to "over consider" himself cause newbies from today might teach us a lot in a few weeks....(provided we treat them well)

Keep up the good work

Waldok :cool:
Newbie 'til I'm dead

[valnar]

Hey Trilight. Where can I find the Robshot method?

He he. Just kidding. :D

Seriously though, has anyone compiled everything in this thread and posted the relevant parts somewhere? 'tis a lot to read through.

Robert

[Eyes`Only]

Just highlight all words that have the letters [A through Y] in them. That should just about cover the pertinent information. Oh yeah I forgot... highlight the ones with Z in them too!

[Chumboy]

Eyes`Only,

that didn't work.

[valnar]

Eyes Only. Just me poking around some more at all the apps out there. I have one question.

I read through this WHOLE thread today and after trying to absorb it all, I noticed DVD Decrypter comes with an option to export chapters for Scenarist and CCE. I don't see anybody discussing that "feature."

Does it not work correctly? Any reason to still do it the hard way?

Robert

[TRILIGHT]

Just use ScenChap, Valnar.

[Eyes`Only]

That chapter exporting feature is for pasting into your .ecl file in CCE. It has nothing to do with Scenarist, far as I know. Most of us don't even bother creating the chapters in CCE, because if you don't do it, the chapters are off by at most 1 frame. It's really only necessary on some movies such as Memento where you can definitely tell if the chapter is not exactly on the right frame.

[valnar]

Eyes,
I'll put in my request to have Doitfast4U also do the Scenchap part too. Can that be included?

Robert

[TRILIGHT]

Not everyone uses Scenarist, Valnar. Plus, there are a number of different versions of ScenChap which behave quite differently. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, there is no controlling ScenChap via CLI. It's very "drag and drop" oriented. Have you used it yet?

[Eyes`Only]

Unfortunately not. Scenchap can only be effective implemented after importing your videos into Scenarist, and then exporting to a .scp file. If you wish more automation, Daxab's going to have to be the one to do it, since he knows more of the ins and outs of Scenarist itself! The way Scenarist does it's .scn and .scp files is so complex that many attempts i've seen to emulate it have failed, though work in a limited fashion. Scenchap is the only method i've seen that works with a 99.9% effectiveness presently.

I sure would like a Scenchap feature that made it easier to import VobID chapters though :D

If you want an understanding of how complex the Scenarist generated files are, export to .scp and open the .scp file up in Notepad. If that wasn't enough, try to figure out how to delete one scene yourself, then save your .scp and try to re-import it. Most likely Scenarist will balk. It's extremely fickle!

[Stress_analyst]

What a discussion...

Is it correct that if we do have multi PGC's then we must use Scenarist or Maestro in order to create a similar to the original DVD "stucture" during authoring?

I guess we couldn't use Spruce up in a multi PGC case since the original IFO (authored one) must have more or equal number of PGC's to the "to be modified" IFO in order for IFOUPDATE to work.

What about the merge menu function of Ifoedit? I have authored a multi PGC title with Ifoedit 0.95 (subs are still an issue) and when I use the merge menu function of Ifoedit the menu and the chapter points are correct. The only issue that I have is that the menu buttons are not highlighted any more. They do work if you use the mouse to select them but the standalones do not have a mouse available... Also the menu sound is not coming on. The menu vob has sound and plays fine by itself. Is there a way to fix/patch that function of ifoedit or the ifoedit produced ifo?

Thanks,
The Analyst

[jdobbs]

You can use IFOEDIT, but if you're doing NTSC with 2:3 pulldown there is an annoying IFOEDIT timing bug. The chapters get set wrong (unless you manually change them), and when it plays back on my Sony player the time display jumps around.

[ccsint]

It's funny how everything is written to these two programs, but you can't really get them legally anymore.

Perhaps Scenarist is being sold, but not on Sonic's main webpage, to say the least, and must cost a grip. DVD Maestro isn't made anymore...

Is there an alternative to these two programs? Anything free, or close to free?

:scared:

[jdobbs]

I've found ReelDVD to be a nice package. It won't do everything that Scenarist does, but it will do Multiple PGCs, handles AC3, gives limited subtitle support, and is pretty easy to use. You have to break out the PGCs before you backup a DVD -- but that works really well with Eyes Only's DoitFast4U methods...

ReelDVD is still in the $900+ price range (I've seen it for $750 when you purchase it with a burner). So it's typically aimed for those who do some level of professional authoring (weddings, home-video transfers, corporate videos and the like).

As for free, IFOEDIT is a close as you will get. I think it will become the default in the near future with a little tweaking -- and it will already do perfect PAL backups. You can also do some things with the BBMPEG series of software as well.

[Eyes`Only]

bump