[GUIDE] Smooth playback with madVR and no Smooth Motion/Reclock

[QBhd]

did you try the one just below it?... many times the top of the list do not work... just keep going down the list until you find one that works... it's not rocket science

QB

[CarlosCaco]

Don't forget to add the custom extension blocks like hdmi support and whatever your display needs

[ashlar42]

Trying to get 23.976Hz from a GTX 960 to a Panasonic VT50.
This (http://i.imgur.com/hrYaKHj.png) is what I've set based on the guide on first page, using this I get a black screen upon entering Windows.

Based on what Lynx74 says here, (http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?page=65) he required between 2630 and 2650 total horizontal lines to get an image. What do I do now?
I see high pixel clocks in PCC, in the background of your photo. To get exact timings, you need to input 24 Hz and tick the 1/1.001 checkbox. You should also try to use 2 as multiple for horizontal blanking.

I get these timings you could check: http://pastebin.com/DkAeLJyp

[CarlosCaco]

In my tv cru LCD standard timings don t work... only with native works... maybe you can give a try to native...

[ashlar42]

Thanks Carlos for the kind words in the madVR thread. Much appreciated.

[CarlosCaco]

Thanks Carlos for the kind words in the madVR thread. Much appreciated.

We have to reconize when someone does a good job

[ryrynz]

I get these timings you could check: http://pastebin.com/DkAeLJyp

Cheers. I'll give that a shot. I have set a custom res in the nvidia control panel. Dropping one pixel off is giving good results. What is actually being done for this to happen?

http://i.imgur.com/WnjJlcil.jpg

This gives me 24.9755 and seems to be the only thing that works.
Is that really the best I can achieve? It appears my display prefers the resolution to not change too much as various options in the pastebin results did not work.

[huhn]

why do you care about the refresh rate?

you should only care about the dropped repeat frame indicator nothing else.

[ashlar42]

ryrynz, I am sorry if the guide is not crystal clear in this regard. Its objective is most definitely NOT that of aiming to have a perfect 24/1.001 refresh rate in and by itself.

The aim of the guide is to calculate what is the perfect refresh rate to aim at FOR YOU (for your combination of audio and video clocks). The guide does the opposite of what Reclock does. Reclock modifies the audio playback speed, here we leave audio alone an slightly tweak refresh rate in order to compensate for the mis-synchronization of audio and video clock.

I suggest you re-read the guide, all of it, step by step. If there's anything you don't understand, feel free to ask here and I will be more than happy to clarify. The timings I posted for you were just a starting point to help with #3 of the guide. But you need to follow it all and understand the logic behind it.

[Snecx]

I have a question how to fill in the start values for PCC. I use a Philips FTV to watch movies with madVR.
If i start CRU i get the left picture.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af29/snecxxx/manuel_zpsbfyp7lu3.png (http://s990.photobucket.com/user/snecxxx/media/manuel_zpsbfyp7lu3.png.html)
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af29/snecxxx/auto_zpsaeer9xnf.png (http://s990.photobucket.com/user/snecxxx/media/auto_zpsaeer9xnf.png.html)

Now i click add detailed resolution and i can choose between manuel timing and standard lcd timing.

a) What should i choose?
b) Which values do i need to enter now in PCC for min/max horz. blanking and for min/max vert. blanking.
As i understand if i choose the manuel timing i need to enter
280 for min. horz. blanking and about 500 for max. horz. blanking
If i choose standard LCD timing i need to enter min 830 and for max about 1050.

Or what values do i need to enter in PCC to start?

[huhn]

you have to read and understand the guide.

no one here knows your clock deviations and we can find that out for you.

[ashlar42]

a) What should i choose?
b) Which values do i need to enter now in PCC for min/max horz. blanking and for min/max vert. blanking.
As i understand if i choose the manuel timing i need to enter
280 for min. horz. blanking and about 500 for max. horz. blanking
If i choose standard LCD timing i need to enter min 830 and for max about 1050.

Or what values do i need to enter in PCC to start?
a) In CRU you need to choose manual timings.
b) You need to understand the following:
Front porch + sync width + back porch = blanking
Active + blanking = total

As I wrote, the maximum and minimum blanking depend on your screen, feel free to use the values I used in my example and see how it goes. The active portion is always the same (it's the resolution you want to display, basically), so different values in maximum and minimum blanking just give you different options for timings to try out. If you go out of specifications for your screen, it will simply fail to show a picture and CRU will revert back.

[Snecx]

Thank you ashlar42.

Front porch + sync width + back porch = blanking that was the part i didn't understand.

Now i can start to optimize my timings.

Thx again for the guide.

[sucht]

sorry, but i am pretty stupid when it comes to math, and windows calculator does not help me at all. but maybe it's not a problem i have with math, and there is something i am supposed to see, but... :/

i get, 1 frame repeat every 1.8 hours on a 23.976 fps file after an hour.
composition rate is 23.976 Hz with madVR showing me ~ "display 23.97622 Hz".

i tried doing what ashlar42 wrote, 1 frame repeat every (108 x 60) = 6480 seconds | 1 / (6480 * 23.976) = 6.43647762989327, that is ?? ppm. and that's where it stops for my brain.

how to do the rest ( 23.976 * (1-?? ppm) ---> 23.976 * (1-6.43647762989327 ??) ---> 23.976 * ?? = ?? (we approximate to the eight decimal here). ), i don't know :/

i can live with this 1.8 hours for 23.976 files/blu-ray stuff, but i also have a lot of DVDs and they have different FPS.
i want to know/learn how to do this thing my brain likes to stop at.

i'm sorry for being stupid and i hope someone can help me with this problem of mine.


a big thank you in advance.

[ashlar42]

sucht, it's 0.00000643647 that is 6.43647ppm

Since there are frame repeats, you need to subctract in order to get the refresh rate to aim for.

23.976 x (1-0.00000643647) ---> 23.976 x 0.999993564 = 23.97584568

Instead of aiming for 23.976 you need to aim for 23.97584568Hz.

I hope it's clear for you. You could get great results from the first go or need to iterate a couple of times to reach a good result. Only when you are satisfied with the result you could use point 9 in the guide to establish the factor by which audio and video clock differ and apply it to other refresh rates.

As usual, bear in mind that "good results" not necessarily will get you days before drops/repeats. As long as you manage to get to... I don't know, 6 hours? It's likely you will never see a drop or repeat in your life, to get that you ought to watch a video for six hours straight, without ever pausing it. And... well, nature has its needs for us human beings :D

[sucht]

sucht, it's 0.00000643647 that is 6.43647ppm

Since there are frame repeats, you need to subctract in order to get the refresh rate to aim for.

23.976 x (1-0.00000643647) ---> 23.976 x 0.999993564 = 23.97584568

Instead of aiming for 23.976 you need to aim for 23.97584568Hz.

I hope it's clear for you. You could get great results from the first go or need to iterate a couple of times to reach a good result. Only when you are satisfied with the result you could use point 9 in the guide to establish the factor by which audio and video clock differ and apply it to other refresh rates.

As usual, bear in mind that "good results" not necessarily will get you days before drops/repeats. As long as you manage to get to... I don't know, 6 hours? It's likely you will never see a drop or repeat in your life, to get that you ought to watch a video for six hours straight, without ever pausing it. And... well, nature has its needs for us human beings :D



thank you, i knew my brain had some hiccups :)
i don't what the whole world, but some hours more would be cool, and thanks to you i can try :)

i wish you a good day/evening, and thanks for making it more clear for my brain :)

[Siso]

Trying to get 71.928 hz refresh rate, best I can get is 71.931 hz, any help will be appreciated :)

here is a screenshot

https://9-t.imgbox.com/4j42OeDi.jpg (http://imgbox.com/4j42OeDi)

[huhn]

read the guide and understand that aim at 71.928 hz is pointless.

[Siso]

read the guide and understand that aim at 71.928 hz is pointless.

How so?

[nevcairiel]

You need the rate to match your clock drift, not get to exactly 23.9760 or any of its multiples. The drift can throw it off in either direction a quite a bit.

[Siso]

You need the rate to match your clock drift, not get to exactly 23.9760 or any of its multiples. The drift can throw it off in either direction a quite a bit.

I see...what about nvidia custom resolution vs custom resolution utility which is better to use?

[huhn]

what you like more.

[ashlar42]

I see...what about nvidia custom resolution vs custom resolution utility which is better to use?As mentioned, use whatever works for you.
In madVR thread you said the guide would be better with 23.976Hz and multiple refresh rates but... it really doesn't matter. The example is with 50Hz but the whole logic remains exactly the same. Having a different refresh rate example, with different targets (as clocks differ for everyone), wouldn't be much more helpful, I think.

I tried to make the guide as easy to understand as I could but if there are "foggy" passages please do let me know, as I'd love to make it clearer.

[Siso]

what you like more.

The odd thing is that both softwares shows different digits.

[ashlar42]

The odd thing is that both softwares shows different digits.If you read the guide and understand its principles, you'll see that if you use one of the two softwares (CRU or Nvidia CP) and stick with it, the numbers shown matter quite relatively.

The important thing is the info provided by madVR and the direction you need to move the refresh rate toward.

[Siso]

If you read the guide and understand its principles, you'll see that if you use one of the two softwares (CRU or Nvidia CP) and stick with it, the numbers shown matter quite relatively.

The important thing is the info provided by madVR and the direction you need to move the refresh rate toward.

That's good but why is there a difference in the numbers, example here are screenshots:

https://5-t.imgbox.com/18EKUjC0.jpg (http://imgbox.com/18EKUjC0) https://8-t.imgbox.com/lvNUIpk6.jpg (http://imgbox.com/lvNUIpk6)

[ashlar42]

As I said, you should not compare the two approaches. Pick one and stick to it.
For what is worth, I've *always* (from GTX 460 times) found the Nvidia CP seriously messed up and this is why I went with CRU.

In any case, the underlying math is identical. So the fact that you see different numbers depends on the initial conditions you set up (and I don't know what they are but, again, they're kind of irrelevant for what we try to reach here).

[Siso]

As I said, you should not compare the two approaches. Pick one and stick to it.
For what is worth, I've *always* (from GTX 460 times) found the Nvidia CP seriously messed up and this is why I went with CRU.

In any case, the underlying math is identical. So the fact that you see different numbers depends on the initial conditions you set up (and I don't know what they are but, again, they're kind of irrelevant for what we try to reach here).

Whenever I try refresh rate of 71.928 hz with reclock it doesn't play that smoothly as with 72 hz with reclock, I have no idea why...

[huhn]

maybe your screen doesn't like custom refresh rate like that and is dropping frames.

[Siso]

maybe your screen doesn't like custom refresh rate like that and is dropping frames.

It's not dropping frames in madvr, but panning shots are not that smooth. It is better with 72 hz tho, but not with 71.928 hz.

[huhn]

how should madVR know if your screen is dropping frames?

there are test for this: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

[Siso]

how should madVR know if your screen is dropping frames?

there are test for this: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

No problems during the test with 72 hz :)

[ashlar42]

Could you please provide a screen capture (or photo) of madVR statistics (CTRL+J) for the two different refresh rates, without Reclock (what audio renderer are you using?)?

[Siso]

Could you please provide a screen capture (or photo) of madVR statistics (CTRL+J) for the two different refresh rates, without Reclock (what audio renderer are you using?)?

I'm using reclock.

[QBhd]

This guide is for people who don't use ReClock... ReClock works best if your screen is as close to 72.000 as possible (or any multiple of 24.000).

With this guide I took ReClock out of my playback chain, and have never looked back.

QB

[fairchild]

I appreciate the time made to make this guide, and am glad it's working for some. I'm relatively tech savy but I tried it once and didn't go through with it. (I went to school for computer engineering for 3 years, am a certified pc repair tech, I build new PC's from scratch, I also own a spectrometer and calibrate TV's for fun fro myself and family/friends) Maybe it's not needed for me since I own a Panasonic VT60 plasma which has a 96mhz mode that gives me a near perfect 23.976 mode with no flicker and I rarely notice judder.

[ashlar42]

I'm using reclock.You wrote you were worried about losing Atmos. If you use Reclock you lose Atmos, it's as simple as that.
Following this guide you ought to be able to reach a repeat/drop level that makes playback perfect for any kind of content you might reasonably want to watch.

[ashlar42]

I appreciate the time made to make this guide, and am glad it's working for some. I'm relatively tech savy but I tried it once and didn't go through with it. (I went to school for computer engineering for 3 years, am a certified pc repair tech, I build new PC's from scratch, I also own a spectrometer and calibrate TV's for fun fro myself and family/friends) Maybe it's not needed for me since I own a Panasonic VT60 plasma which has a 96mhz mode that gives me a near perfect 23.976 mode with no flicker and I rarely notice judder.It would help me a great deal if you could articulate what you find hard to understand.

Maybe I should rewrite and make clearer the general purpose and approach needed.

Edit: I've added this:

At a basic level, to reach a low enough number of drops/repeats, you need to increase your refresh rate in case of frames dropped and decrease it in case of frames repeated.

[Siso]

You wrote you were worried about losing Atmos. If you use Reclock you lose Atmos, it's as simple as that.
Following this guide you ought to be able to reach a repeat/drop level that makes playback perfect for any kind of content you might reasonably want to watch.

I didn't write anything about atmos. It must be some other guy.
In a matter of the guide, it is hard to understand which values you have to input in the PCC, it could be easier with more examples, but that is my personal opinion. As far as content, i'm wondering if I ever achieve almost perfect 71.928 hz what about content that is 24 fps?

[Siso]

This guide is for people who don't use ReClock... ReClock works best if your screen is as close to 72.000 as possible (or any multiple of 24.000).

With this guide I took ReClock out of my playback chain, and have never looked back.

QB

I'm pretty close to 72 hz, so reclock helps me.

[ashlar42]

I didn't write anything about atmos. It must be some other guy.
In a matter of the guide, it is hard to understand which values you have to input in the PCC, it could be easier with more examples, but that is my personal opinion. As far as content, i'm wondering if I ever achieve almost perfect 71.928 hz what about content that is 24 fps?Man... I don't know how to tell you...

You *DO NOT* want to aim for perfect 24/1.001 (and multipliers) refresh rate. You need to check, without Reclock, for frames dropped or repeated and then, following the guide, adjust your refresh rate up or down, in order to compensate for audio clock drift.

[huhn]

you make that pretty clear in the guide...
same in the madVR thread. i really really don't know what's so complicated about this topic.

display refresh rate is just a number calculated from the system clock.

[Siso]

Man... I don't know how to tell you...

You *DO NOT* want to aim for perfect 24/1.001 (and multipliers) refresh rate. You need to check, without Reclock, for frames dropped or repeated and then, following the guide, adjust your refresh rate up or down, in order to compensate for audio clock drift.

I know, but can you tell me from where you type the minimum and the maximum horizontal blanking and minimum and maximum vertical blanking in PCC, they are from CRU but how you multiply them? Here is a screenshot from CRU.

https://5-t.imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG.jpg (http://imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG)

[Dorohedoro]

This guide is amazing, its a bit hard to follow specially if you are not a native english speaker like me, but in general solved my problem with dropped frames every 40 seconds in 60hz. Now my refresh rate is something like 59.94xxx and I have a frame dropped after 5 or so hours, amazing! a shame I have a random weird shuttering problem sometimes, but I think is not related to the refresh rate.

Thank you so much for this guide, is really useful.

[Siso]

This guide is amazing, its a bit hard to follow specially if you are not a native english speaker like me, but in general solved my problem with dropped frames every 40 seconds in 60hz. Now my refresh rate is something like 59.94xxx and I have a frame dropped after 5 or so hours, amazing! a shame I have a random weird shuttering problem sometimes, but I think is not related to the refresh rate.

Thank you so much for this guide, is really useful.

Do you know from what the weird stuttering occurs?

[Dorohedoro]

I have no idea and its driving me crazy, I think it might be my videocard (gtx660) but Im not so sure because it happens with every file, even with sd content.

[Dorohedoro]

Im sorry but I have no idea and its driving me crazy.

[huhn]

3:2 judder?

[Dorohedoro]

3:2 judder?

No, its a jumpy irregular stutter, like the videocard or the cpu having trouble with the file. But its really weird because its happening with every file, even with sd content. Also, I just tested some videos on a different hdd with a different os installation (on the same pc) with a similar config (its my gaming hdd) and its the same, I think my videocard might be dying....

[ashlar42]

I know, but can you tell me from where you type the minimum and the maximum horizontal blanking and minimum and maximum vertical blanking in PCC, they are from CRU but how you multiply them? Here is a screenshot from CRU.

https://5-t.imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG.jpg (http://imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG)You have a 21:9 screen?

In any case, are those numbers working if you use them to create a custom resolution? If they are, launch a movie, wait the right amount of time (as suggested in the guide, at least 30 minutes is ideal) and take note of what madVR tells you in its playback stats. Are frames repeated? Dropped? With what frequency? You take note of that and follow the calculations explained in the guide to have a new refresh rate to aim for.

You input that in Pixel Clock Calculator and modify the custom resolution you created before. You launch the movie again and see that frames dropped/repeated are now less frequent. You can adjust again, and again and again, as long as you manage to get better results, aiming toward perfection.

As suggested, once you get to the "one frame repeat/drop" every 6 hours or better... it's merely an exercise toward perfection, because you will never be watching something for 6 hours without pause.

PS
I don't understand what you mean by "how do you multiply them"... I can only suggest to read the guide again, it's step by step... you can't go wrong.