[GUIDE] Smooth playback with madVR and no Smooth Motion/Reclock

[ashlar42]

How to limit the number of drops/repeats with madVR and custom resolutions.

At a basic level, to reach a low enough number of drops/repeats, you need to:

* Increase your refresh rate in case of madVR reporting frames dropped
* Decrease your refresh rate in case of madVR reporting frames repeated.

You will discover that you don't need "perfect" 23.976 refresh rate for smooth playback, as the target refresh varies according to the different clocks in your system.

I simply explain how to do this the right way.

What follows is a guide that hopefully will allow you to maximise playback smoothness using a DirectShow based player with madVR.
Before we begin, I would like to express a heartfelt thank you to hannes69, the Kodi forums user that inspired me to learn this stuff and without whose help this guide would never have happened.

The problem: with PC based playback it's pretty hard to get perfectly smooth playback without the odd frame being repeated or dropped.

The reason this happens is that, unlike regular DVD/BD players, our machines use different clocks inside them. Tipically we are looking at three clocks being used in a PC: video, audio and system clock, with the first two being crucial for video playback.
Unfortunately, it's just a matter of luck for audio and video clock being in sync. When this doesn't happen, we have frames dropped or repeated during playback. More or less frequently according to how much audio and video clock are out of sync.

I think it's better to let madshi speak about this, quoting him from a 2013 post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1612690#post1612690):There are 3 clocks during video playback:

(1) System clock ("time").
(2) Video refresh rate.
(3) Audio hardware clock.

The system clock really doesn't have anything to do with video playback, but madVR uses it to measure and compare the other two clocks. Now it is possible (even probable) that the system clock is not perfect. But that's not a big problem because if it's e.g. slightly too fast, both video and audio clocks will be measured wrong in the exact same way, so everything's fine.

If the video and audio hardware clocks are "perfect", there should be no dropped or repeated frames (if your PC is fast enough). However, video and audio clocks are usually both imperfect. If both are imperfect in the same way (e.g. being 0.1% too fast), again there's no problem. But if the amount of "deviation from perfectness" of audio and video clocks is not identical then madVR has to either drop frames (video clock slower than audio clock) or repeat frames (video clock faster than audio clock) to make sure video and audio stay in sync.

The refresh rate as shown in the first line in the madVR OSD is madVR's measurement of the video clock, measured by using the system clock. The audio "deviation" in the madVR OSD shows how much the audio clock deviates from "perfectness", measured by the system clock. If e.g. the measured refresh rate is 24.24000Hz (1% too fast for 24.000 content) and the audio deviation is exactly 1%, too, then there should be no frame drops/repeats. If the video/audio deviation differs, there have to be drops or repeats.

In this post madshi gives us all the info we need to try and solve the problem, while acting on the video side. Acting on the audio side means resampling sound so as to "adapt" it to the video clock difference. It's what Reclock does, it's what Kodi does with "Sync to display" activated, it's what Sanear is scheduled to do in the future.

For people who want to bitstream, or who would prefer to leave their audio untouched even when decoding via software, Reclock is not an option, though.
This method acts on the refresh rate you send to your screen, taking into account the interaction between audio clock and video clock discrepancies, compared to the "ideal" refresh rate.

If you follow this procedure, results are not 100% guaranteed as I've discovered some inconsistencies on specific 59.940fps files (while hannes69 has everything working almost perfectly). Nonetheless, even for most problematic cases, we've managed to get the drops/repeats down to less than 1 every two hours. Which, in my book, qualifies as good enough (and for the grand majority of files we are instead down to 1 every 9 hours or more).

The first step is deciding which refresh rate you intend to operate on. I suggest working first on the resolution/refresh that accomodates the majority of content you watch. In the example provided we will use 2560x1440@50.000.

1) Download and install Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) (http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU).

2) Visit Pixel Clock Calculator (PCC) (http://www.monitortests.com/pixelclock.php).

3) For CRU use the instructions provided by ToastyX in its release thread, linked above.

If you are using audio through HDMI or DisplayPort be sure to add the relevant extension block files in CRU, as explained in the above link. I quote from there below.
For audio support, import one of these extension block files:

hdmi-audio.dat (http://www.monitortests.com/hdmi-audio.dat) (HDMI audio)
hdmi-bitstream.dat (http://www.monitortests.com/hdmi-bitstream.dat) (HDMI bitstreaming for A/V receiver)
displayport-audio.dat (http://www.monitortests.com/displayport-audio.dat) (DisplayPort audio)

What I do is use CRU's Automatic LCD standard timings as a starting point, as those keep the right values for front porch/back porch/sync, setting resolution and refresh and then switching to Manual timings.
Then, using Pixel Clock Calculator I aim for the correct refresh, down to the 5th or 6th decimal (talking about the @ portion in data entry). Under "Maximum decimal places" insert 2, as that, unfortunately, it's the maximum precision offered in controlling the pixel clock in our GPUs.

Comparing the standard LCD timings offered by CRU, fill in the minimum blanking and maximum blanking. As a minimum I tend to use the value offered by standard timings, with 2-300 more pixels as a maximum. Being more precise requires knowing the exact specifications of the screen you are using and it's clearly beyond the scope of this guide. What I suggest is what I've been doing, nothing more.

Keep in mind this:

Active = visible pixels
Front porch + sync width + back porch = blanking
Active + blanking = total

These numbers are *important* if you want to preserve all bitstreaming formats, as they are carried in the "invisible" portion of the HDMI signal (if you're using HDMI, that is). As an example, CEA standard timings require front porch at 638 for 1080p24Hz and 528 for 1080p50Hz.
For the "Multiple" entry, I've found 2 for horizontal and 1 for vertical to be working for me on my plasma TV, while hannes69, on a PC monitor, can use 1 for both horizontal and vertica. Your situation might be different, you can only test here. Suggestion is to start with PCC defaults at 8 horizontal / 1 vertical and slowly decrease the horizontal value if you don't get precise enough results (ie. you don't get refresh rates close enough to what you'll need).

Once you have filled in all the numbers in PCC, hit submit query and find a set of values to use for a new custom resolution in CRU. The three values PCC offers are in line with CRU, so you can use horizontal total, vertical total and refresh (up to the third decimal position) in CRU's window.

http://i64.tinypic.com/24qmsnb.jpg

Front porch and sync width will stay at the values coming from standard timings, back porch and blanking will vary according to the total values you'll input. Save, restart the driver, check that there are no wrong colors, shimmering pixels, distortion (if there are, choose different timings) and move to the following point.

http://i63.tinypic.com/xqdct3.jpg

In the example we aim for 2560x1440, with a refresh rate of 50.000Hz. PCC suggests 2720x1475 lines with a pixel clock of 200.60 MHz. Leading to a calculated refresh rate of 50.000Hz.

4) Find a video lasting at least 45 minutes and start playing it. Leave it playing for at least 30 minutes, more if you can (measurements will be more precise). Note: ReClock is known to produce inaccurate clock deviation figures, even when bitstreaming. For an accurate clock deviation, try Sanear (https://github.com/alexmarsev/sanear/releases) or the default audio renderer.

5) After the prescribed amount of time, bring up madVR OSD (CTRL+J). Take note of the following values, if you want to be rigorous, you might want to start a spreadsheet (or txt, whatever suits you) with these info, name of the file, moment of the day you tested the file (ideally here you should note for how long the PC had been running before the test).

a) movie 50.000 fps (says source filter) - I've had one case where madVR erroneusly reported 23.970 for a 23.976fps file. If something like that happens, change the file, otherwise all calculations would be skewed.
b) 1 frame repeat every x.xx minutes/hours/days (this is the value we wil try to optimize, take note of drop or repeat here, as that's crucial). In the example we get 1 frame dropped every 56.21 minutes. That is 1 frame dropped every (56.21 x 60) = 3372.6 seconds. It appears the audio clock is extremely precise, while the video clock deviates somewhat.

http://i66.tinypic.com/25te2on.jpg

To calculate the error we need to compensate for, the formula is:

1 / (number of seconds before a drop/repeat * movie framerate)

In the above example the formula becomes 1 / (3372.6 * 25.000) = 0.00001186028, that is 11.86028ppm.

To apply the compensation, we add to the refresh rate in case of frames dropped, we subtract from the refresh rate in case of frames repeated.
Given this, our compensated refresh rate in the example becomes:

50.000 * (1+11.86028ppm) ---> 50.000 * (1+0.00001186028) ---> 50.000 * 1.00001186028 = 50.00059301 (we approximate to the eight decimal here).

6) With the compensated refresh rate at hand, we go back to PCC and input it.

7) Now it's again to CRU where we input the new values (use the closer ones you manage to use with no distortion, wrong colors, etc.). For our example, we choose 2750 x 1541 with a pixel clock of 211.89MHz (it's not the closest one, but it's useful for showing you the possible iteration of the process), leading to a calculated refresh rate of 50.00058994Hz.

8) You go back to point 4 and check your new results. 45 minutes of playback and check. Ideally, you'll now find frame drops/repeats in the days range, if not "no frame drops/repeats expected".

9) In our case, instead, we get 1 frame drop every 11 hours.

http://i66.tinypic.com/j8mgrp.jpg

We then decide to go back to 5 and try to compensate some more. With the calculations shown, we get that our error diminished and is now 1.01ppm. That is 1 / ((3600 * 11) * 25)) = 0.00000101. Since we have frame drops, we add to the previous refresh rate like this: 50.00058994 * (1+1.01ppm) = 50.00064044.

Going back to PCC we get a 2860 horizontal total, 1639 vertical total and 234.38 pixel clock custom resolution leading to a calculated refresh rate of 50.00063999. Not perfect but closer. By going back to 4, we get 1 frame drop every 18.15 hours. This is definitely in the "good enough" region, as it offers some serious margin for clock variations due to temperature, etc.

http://i67.tinypic.com/149v8zo.jpg

We could iterate some more or we could be luckier than in this example and have a more precise video clock/GPU/timings relation. The process remains the same. With this configuration the closer I managed to get was 1 frame drop every 1.02 days, with a calculated refresh rate of 50.00067942Hz.

http://i65.tinypic.com/t0n2ht.jpg

Bear in mind that, during our experiments, we discovered that there are some "regions" where the GPU refuses to behave according to the input provided (lowering refresh when timings should make it rise, for instance). If you meet one of those regions, try working around it. Unfortunately, in cases like that, it becomes more a matter of trial and error than it would be ideal.

9) You can now calculate the factor by which the audio and video clock differ. 50.00067942, in our example, is the refresh rate that gives optimal results. The factor then is 50.00067942 / (2 * 25.00), using double the frame rate of the video being played back, as that's what's being displayed by madVR. The calculations gives 1.0000135884. The video clock, in this case, deviates by -13.588ppm, that is 1 - 1.0000135884.

10) You can now apply the factor calculated in the previous point to other refreshes needed. For 23.976, as an example, we would need to aim for 23.976 * 1.0000135884 = 23.97635580. As we discover our PC monitor doesn't accept such a low refresh rate, we double it. 47.952 * 1.0000135884 = 47.95265159. We go back to 3 and discover that with these values we have 1 frame drop every 17.43 hours.

http://i63.tinypic.com/ej9q9.jpg

Most definitely already in "good enough" territory, although we might want to iterate some more as shown above. Doing that, I managed to get to this:

http://i66.tinypic.com/9suuzq.jpg

Bear in mind that clock deviation can vary with temperature (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock#Explanation), so try and get the absolute best result possible as far as drops/repeats are concerned, as that will give you some headroom to handle clock variations due to long sessions playback, room temperature changes, etc. Feel free to take periodic measurements in order to better compensate for the most likely use case.

Again a big thank you to hannes69 for all the knowledge he shared with me. :)

[ashlar42]

312 views and not a single comment? Is the guide useful? Everybody knew this already (I've been looking for a "clean" solution to the problem for the past 10 years and never found a good write up)? Is this not the right place to post it? Is it a giant steaming pile of crap? :D

[QBhd]

Fear not, Some good info here... I sure most of us are just trying to find the time to actually fine tune their Custom Resolutions. I use the built in Custom Resolutions of Crimson and use ReClock, and I think this info here can help me fine tune to even better results than I got by fiddling around with trial and error :P

I will post again when I have the time to get to it.

QB

[pirlouy]

312 views and not a single comment?
I was in those 312 views. Something bugged me. In the title, you mention bitstreaming. Isn't this past ? Bitstreaming seems pointless today. We can decode it with LAV filters libraries plus Windows can output 24 bits 96 kHz untouched (without exclusive mode).

For the display frequency, with 24Hz movie, I use 60Hz with smooth motion and I don't notice dropped/double frame.
For 25Hz movie, I use 50Hz, and I don't notice frames issues.

Plus your guide is to go from 1 frame lost every 45 minutes to 1 every 45 hours. So it's complicated for something you won't really notice (1 frame every 45 minutes).

Don't get me wrong. Your guide is very interesting, but it is essentially aimed at those who want perfect numbers. In real life, you can use madVR LAV filters and Windows DirectSound output and still get a smooth/perfect playback.

For those who want to tweak, it's really helpful.

[hannes69]

I use 60Hz with smooth motion and I don't notice dropped/double frame.
Of course smoothmotion is a valid solution for the given problem. Same as Reclock is a solution. But I consider both of these methods as a kind of "workaround" from a purist´s point of view. Both these methods work, but one alters video material, one alters audio material.
Why workaround when it can be done as it is supposed to be:D
It is supposed that a movie with a given framerate is being played back with the corresponding accurate refresh rate (multiple of the framerate). And if the underlying technology isn´t accurate enough but we can compensate that, it should be compensated:cool:
But of course I can understand that many people like to use practical solutions without fiddling around. Not everybody is built for perfection.:sly:
I am. :D

Your guide is very interesting, but it is essentially aimed at those who want perfect numbers.
YES. The guide makes use of madvr which itself is made for perfection:rolleyes: We all want results as good as possible. This guide is part of that philosophy...

[ashlar42]

Maybe it's the fact that if I am actually *watching* something, I notice dropped/repeated frames always.

In any case, in the guide I specify it's not just for bitstreaming, do I not?

For people who want to bitstream, or who would prefer to leave their audio untouched even when decoding via software, Reclock is not an option, though.

Of course, using Smoothmotion solves everything... But that modifies video, by design.

[huhn]

think about a new thread name.

people usually understand something else under a guide for smooth playback.
or with other words the name sound like "yet another madVR guide"


maybe think about some information like "A LOT of TV's can't do proper 23/24P no matter what they are doing a 3/2 pullup".

[ashlar42]

I don't think I can change the thread title. If a moderator has a better idea... be my guest. :)

Probably the title of the guide itself "How to limit the number of drops/repeats with madVR and custom resolutions." would be better. What do you think?

[huhn]

i'm not good at this naming stuff but that would be a lot better.

but think about a shorter name. i guess.

[Warner306]

This is pretty complicated for a noob. You should spend some time defining all of the different timing parameters and explaining what they do (e.g. Front porch: definition, Blanking: definition, etc.).

[ashlar42]

This is pretty complicated for a noob. You should spend some time defining all of the different timing parameters and explaining what they do (e.g. Front porch: definition, Blanking: definition, etc.).They would just complicate the guide, don't you think? As you don't interact and don't need to interact with all those other values to reach the objective.

Horizontal total, Vertical total, Pixel clock. That's it.

I could, I suppose, add a glossary at the end. But, again, incorporating it in the guide would lead people to believe they *need* to understand all that, while that's definitely not the case.

[CarlosCaco]

man this is great! but there´s a chance to make some solution for intel users... on intel custom resolutions theres no blanking control, the blanking is not showing at all turning things much much harder... we can calculate blanking by the total showed on the end in intels cp but its really hard to fine tune things...
worst is how custom resolution works, you can only make a 24 mode and intel automatic deliverys a 23.976 mode, same to 60 and 59.94 and 30 and 29.970...

[ashlar42]

For Intel you might want to have a look at this, that's been created with Intel GPUs in mind, if I recall correctly: http://www.clevertec.co.uk/productsfree.htm#dtdcalc with instructions here http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/947830-custom-resolution-tool-intel-graphics-easier-overscan-correction.html

[CarlosCaco]

This method don t work on intel modern gpus, a least on my two laptops don t work, but i can use intel custom resolutions on intel control panel with my tv on, but is much harder to fine tune than nvidia custom resolutions and cru

[ashlar42]

I'm sorry, I'm no expert at Intel's GPUs... Always had a dedicated GPU in my eleven years of HTPCing.

[river1]

This is really helpful, now madvr says no frame repeat/drop expected

[ashlar42]

This is really helpful, now madvr says no frame repeat/drop expectedCool! Thanks a lot for letting us know. While writing this I had this nagging doubt about nobody getting any real value out of it. Seeing people happy makes me happy as well. :)

[ashlar42]

I think it would be nice if this guide could be linked here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2215490-madvr-player-support-thread.html

I do not have a working account on AVS and the approval process is taking ages.

Another piece of info that might be of interest is about other video renderers. madVR gives us the crucial info needed to make this all work but, once we have the custom resolutions set up correctly... theoretically they should be of benefit to whatever video renderer one might choose. Kodi, for instance, in its default version, uses its own renderer. Do the results from this work carry on there? I've never tried (Kodi DSPlayer for me, plus MPC-HC with madVR) but it would be interesting to know.

Edit: I did a preliminary test with standard Kodi, DVDPlayer selected, and it seems to confirm that it works correctly. Two and a half hours with no frames lost or repeated.

[Warner306]

I think it would be nice if this guide could be linked here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2215490-madvr-player-support-thread.html

I do not have a working account on AVS and the approval process is taking ages.

Another piece of info that might be of interest is about other video renderers. madVR gives us the crucial info needed to make this all work but, once we have the custom resolutions set up correctly... theoretically they should be of benefit to whatever video renderer one might choose. Kodi, for instance, in its defaul version, uses its own renderer. Do the results from this work carry on there? I've never tried (Kodi DSPlayer for me, plus MPC-HC with madVR) but it would be interesting to know.

Edit: I did a preliminary test with standard Kodi, DVDPlayer selected, and it seems to confirm that it works correctly. Two and a half hours with no frames lost or repeated.

Added to that AVS Forum link.

[ashlar42]

Added to that AVS Forum link.Thanks Warner, didn't realize it was you. :)

[CarlosCaco]

I tried some more and can get DTD working on my intel, so i used this guide and on the first try i get a very good result only with the first part of the guide, pickup a pixel clock for 23,976, calculated on CRU and made the resolution on DTD (is very similar to CRU) and get a frame drop every 2,86 hours... thats great... but how i can count the seconds for that? if i assume that 86 are minutes so i will do 206 x 60 = 12360 seconds. But if 86 were minutes, why the hell madVR wil report 2,86 hours and not 3,26 hours... so i can assume that 86 is not minutes, 86 can be fraction of an hour? if is this i put 2,86 on time conversor and get 2,86 hours = 10296 seconds...
does anyone knows what is the correct math here?

if you guys accord i can write a appendice to your guide to use your method on intel with DTD calculator! thats a good thing for people like me who is stacked on intel because nvidia optimus... i see lots and lots of people complaning about the intel drivers limitation, and really surprise me how easy i achieved a decent result, but i want do the rest of correction, can you guis help with calcules?
really great this guide

btw if a intel user ready this, the thing is if we use the values showed in cru on intel control panel, we don ´t get the same results because intel alters the blanking and total pixels... but if use on DTD works like expected... also intel control panel only allow to use interger values for refresh rate ex 24.000 but not 23,976... but with DTD you can apply this values...

[ashlar42]

If you write an addendum for Intel, I would gladly add it to the guide (crediting you).

It's always fractions of hours, you multiply by 3,600 to get the seconds. You were correct, basically. I'll clarify in the guide where needed.

I am glad you found it useful. :)

[robl45]

Could you explain exactly what we are doing here. I've read your instructions 5 times now and I don't understand the relationship between the two programs. For example, I have an nvidia GTX960 I bring up CRU and detailed resolution I pick 1920x1080, put in refresh 23.976 and I get 23.977 actual when using automatic lcd timings. Then I go manual and basically adjust any one parameter down one and I get 23.976 actual. So what is the PCC used for? Further which parameter is best to adjust? I had done this before and had a problem with my wireless HDMI as it didn't like the non standard settings and would keep losing sync. As for the audio renderer, are you saying that testing this having reclock using original frame rate for media correction will not work?

EDIT: While I still don't fully understand whats going on with both programs, I did try editing custom resolution in the nvidia control panel. It appears that it messes up 3d resolution though.

[ashlar42]

robl45, I'll try to summarize.

madVR provides us with different information that informs us of the clock deviations of video and audio clock, measured against the system clock as a reference.

For the audio clock you get the self explaining Clock deviation entry in the OSD; if the audio clock had no deviation you would get 0.00000%. For the video clock you need to look a the measured refresh rate (Display entry in the OSD) against the refresh rate you would expect from the timings you used; if the video clock had no deviation, by using perfect 24/1.001 timings you would get Display 23.97602.

The frame drop/repeat entry in the OSD is the result of a calculation that takes into account both clock deviations and how they interact. Not wanting to resample audio, we can't change the audio clock. We cannot even change the video clock (it's simply not doable). What we can do is, basically, cheat in producing a slightly higher or slightly lower refresh rate (compared to the optimal 23.97602 in case of movie content), in order to compensate the interaction between audio and video clock.

Quoting once more madshi:If e.g. the measured refresh rate is 24.24000Hz (1% too fast for 24.000 content) and the audio deviation is exactly 1%, too, then there should be no frame drops/repeats. If the video/audio deviation differs, there have to be drops or repeats.

This is exactly what we achieve by cheating. We cannot change the video clock, we want to leave the audio untouched. So, taking into consideration the video clock deviation we aim for a refresh rate that compensates audio/video clocks deviations. The refresh rate you get, compared to the timings you input, is a result of the video clock deviation. You cannot change the video clock but you most definitely can change the refresh rate you aim at.

Have I managed to be clearer?

[robl45]

I understand what you are doing, its the getting there with the two pieces of software that I don't understand. I did try it with the CRU and that messed up the system really badly. I tried just playing with the custom refresh rate in the nvidia control panel and that seemed to mess up the 3d refresh rate. At this point I'm just using the internal intel graphics that can do 23.976 without a problem, but it sucks because its a waste of the GTX950 card.

robl45, I'll try to summarize.

madVR provides us with different information that informs us of the clock deviations of video and audio clock, measured against the system clock as a reference.

For the audio clock you get the self explaining Clock deviation entry in the OSD; if the audio clock had no deviation you would get 0.00000%. For the video clock you need to look a the measured refresh rate (Display entry in the OSD) against the refresh rate you would expect from the timings you used; if the video clock had no deviation, by using perfect 24/1.001 timings you would get Display 23.97602.

The frame drop/repeat entry in the OSD is the result of a calculation that takes into account both clock deviations and how they interact. Not wanting to resample audio, we can't change the audio clock. We cannot even change the video clock (it's simply not doable). What we can do is, basically, cheat in producing a slightly higher or slightly lower refresh rate (compared to the optimal 23.97602 in case of movie content), in order to compensate the interaction between audio and video clock.

Quoting once more madshi:

This is exactly what we achieve by cheating. We cannot change the video clock, we want to leave the audio untouched. So, taking into consideration the video clock deviation we aim for a refresh rate that compensates audio/video clocks deviations. The refresh rate you get, compared to the timings you input, is a result of the video clock deviation. You cannot change the video clock but you most definitely can change the refresh rate you aim at.

Have I managed to be clearer?

[ashlar42]

I understand what you are doing, its the getting there with the two pieces of software that I don't understand. I did try it with the CRU and that messed up the system really badly. I tried just playing with the custom refresh rate in the nvidia control panel and that seemed to mess up the 3d refresh rate. At this point I'm just using the internal intel graphics that can do 23.976 without a problem, but it sucks because its a waste of the GTX950 card.Hmmm, ok. I personally use a GTX 660 with no problem (it even survived the upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1, by just reimporting the CRU settings I had exported previously as a backup).

Considering it's somewhat unintuitive nature, I suspect there might be human error at play here. You really should write in CRU's forums, its author usually answers quickly. If CRU had widespread problems with Nvidia cards we would have heard by now.

[chros]

I tried some more and can get DTD working on my intel, so i used this guide and on the first try i get a very good result only with the first part of the guide, pickup a pixel clock for 23,976, calculated on CRU and made the resolution on DTD (is very similar to CRU) and get a frame drop every 2,86 hours... thats great... but how i can count the seconds for that? if i assume that 86 are minutes so i will do 206 x 60 = 12360 seconds. But if 86 were minutes, why the hell madVR wil report 2,86 hours and not 3,26 hours... so i can assume that 86 is not minutes, 86 can be fraction of an hour? if is this i put 2,86 on time conversor and get 2,86 hours = 10296 seconds...
does anyone knows what is the correct math here?

if you guys accord i can write a appendice to your guide to use your method on intel with DTD calculator! thats a good thing for people like me who is stacked on intel because nvidia optimus... i see lots and lots of people complaning about the intel drivers limitation, and really surprise me how easy i achieved a decent result, but i want do the rest of correction, can you guis help with calcules?
really great this guide

btw if a intel user ready this, the thing is if we use the values showed in cru on intel control panel, we don ´t get the same results because intel alters the blanking and total pixels... but if use on DTD works like expected... also intel control panel only allow to use interger values for refresh rate ex 24.000 but not 23,976... but with DTD you can apply this values...
How did you managed to apply the calculated entries?
What display did you used, is it with HDMI?
Thanks

@ashlar42: thanks for the detailed guide. Although I'm an Intel (optimus) user :)

[Stereodude]

FWIW, I lost HDMI audio on my GTX1080 when I tried to follow the directions in the first post and created a custom EDID block. Instead I used the Nvidia driver to create a custom resolution using the numbers from CRU and PPC. I was able to use timings from PPC that gave an exact match to enter timing parameters for 24/1.001. MadVR measures it as 23.975, but it was in the frame drop every 7.5 hour range after a 2 hour movie and it had 0 drops or repeats for the whole thing. An attempt to further tweak it gave worse results, so I went back.

madVR will switch into the driver's custom resolution instead of the default 23.97Hz mode.

[ashlar42]

Hi Stereodude, are you sure to have added the correct custom blocks to EDID? CRU offers HDMI audio as a custom block to add (I should actually add this to the guide, it's CRU specific but the fact remains that people have reasonable expectations to read this guide and NOT lose their audio). Then again, if you have managed to get into the 7.5 hours range before a drop... I wouldn't bother fixing what ain't broken. ;)

Edit: see here http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?page=1&highlight=hdmi which is the same post I link in the guide. Look for this paragraph: "For audio support, import one of these extension block files"

Edit 2: I've added a clarification in the guide. Thanks for replying here Stereodude, as that gave me the chance to fix this.

[CarlosCaco]

How did you managed to apply the calculated entries?
What display did you used, is it with HDMI?
Thanks


Hey chros and everybody first sorry to all i said that i will write the intel part but did not have time yet...

I m using an hdtv with hdmi

For now i tell a simple way that s not the better way to put the values on the dtd, when i got the time i will right with details and pictures a better way...

For now do this:

Follow the instructions on this Guide and apply the values on CRU, when you restart the drive Intel will not reconize the new edid but madvr will show a new display entry... Go on this new display entry copy the raw edid information....
In dtd paste this on invert calculation and get calculate...
Once calculate choose resolution you made in cru, go to registry hack section on the dtd calculate and apply this dtd and write to register...

The system will restart and if all go right you will got the new resolution...

Reading some Guides about its adverted that in some systems intel will not accept a resolution that is the same to a pre existed resolution ex: 1920x1080p24 if your tv already have this mode... If this happen
You have to made a different resolution like: 1919x1080p24... On my
System i don t have this problem but you maybe get this situariam... Also on my system dtd calculator only work with externas display and don t work with the internal display...
Good luck!

[chros]

Follow the instructions on this Guide and apply the values on CRU, when you restart the drive Intel will not reconize the new edid but madvr will show a new display entry... Go on this new display entry copy the raw edid information....
In dtd paste this on invert calculation and get calculate...
Once calculate choose resolution you made in cru, go to registry hack section on the dtd calculate and apply this dtd and write to register...

The system will restart and if all go right you will got the new resolution...

Reading some Guides about its adverted that in some systems intel will not accept a resolution that is the same to a pre existed resolution ex: 1920x1080p24 if your tv already have this mode... If this happen
You have to made a different resolution like: 1919x1080p24... On my
System i don t have this problem but you maybe get this situariam... Also on my system dtd calculator only work with externas display and don t work with the internal display...
Good luck!
Thanks, I'll try it out with 23.976 content.
Yes, my TV has all the modes in EDID (23,24,25,29,30,etc.), so maybe that's why it didn't worked for me when I played with it. If that's the case then (again) we have to wait for precious Intel to fix this 5 years old issue: https://communities.intel.com/thread/25904?start=120&tstart=0

About "1919x1080p24" mode: will madvr resize the content in this case? (if my TV accepts this mode at all) If so, then (again) it's not a good solution.

What modes does your TV have?

[CarlosCaco]

Thanks, I'll try it out with 23.976 content.
Yes, my TV has all the modes in EDID (23,24,25,29,30,etc.), so maybe that's why it didn't worked for me when I played with it. If that's the case then (again) we have to wait for precious Intel to fix this 5 years old issue: https://communities.intel.com/thread/25904?start=120&tstart=0

About "1919x1080p24" mode: will madvr resize the content in this case? (if my TV accepts this mode at all) If so, then (again) it's not a good solution.

What modes does your TV have?


Deppends, on my old tv the OS reported the resolutiona as 1919x1080 but in madvr showed 1920x1080... In my new tv the native resolution is 1366x768... The things is if madvr will scale the image just set disable scaling if... In madvr zoom options.... But i higly recommend you try the normal mode 1920x1080 more than one time with difrerents pixel clocks just to be safe that is working or not, also try the 1919x1080 option and see what happens... Its not bad as seens

[Siso]

So this guide is only for bitstreaming? How about a regular playback on a pc monitor with reclock? Right now I'm using 72 hz with cru automatic lcd standart timings, would it help if I use your guide?

[huhn]

you can stop using reclock if you follow this guide.

[Siso]

you can stop using reclock if you follow this guide.

Sounds legit :D

[ashlar42]

Sounds legit :DI know I need to rephrase some stuff better in the guide, sorry for any misunderstandings about its purpose.

If you use Reclock just for smoothing playback and avoiding frame drops/repeats, yes you can avoid using it by following this guide. Even if you decode onboard and send out PCM material.

If you use Reclock for PAL speed-down, then no, you won't be able to achieve that following this guide.

The basic idea is that video follows audio. If you don't want to touch audio (like Reclock does), you need to adapt video to the minute variation that audio clock has compared to video clock. How to do it is explained in the guide.

[Siso]

I know I need to rephrase some stuff better in the guide, sorry for any misunderstandings about its purpose.

If you use Reclock just for smoothing playback and avoiding frame drops/repeats, yes you can avoid using it by following this guide. Even if you decode onboard and send out PCM material.

If you use Reclock for PAL speed-down, then no, you won't be able to achieve that following this guide.

The basic idea is that video follows audio. If you don't want to touch audio (like Reclock does), you need to adapt video to the minute variation that audio clock has compared to video clock. How to do it is explained in the guide.

Thank you :)

I've tried some custom resolutions with multiple by 8 for horizontal and it seems ok :D

[Q-the-STORM]

This was working for me before, I reinstalled nvidia drivers and it wiped out custom resolutions.
Now I'm trying it again, but now part of the bottom of the image goes beyond the screen... (like it's vertically streched, windows task bar is half cut off)

I got windows 10 pro x64 connected to a Pioneer LX89 which connects to a LG OLED E6
this is what I set:

http://justpic.info/images4/9a52/9hPjDN.jpg

only the first one works at all, the other exact matches give me a black image (audio still works)

[ashlar42]

Q-the-STORM, what about trying CRU?

[Siso]

With sanear audio renderer, I've managed to make 1 frame repeat or drop to around 5 hours, with mpc-be audio renderer with wasapi and "sync audio to video", I've managed to make around 10 hours on 1 frame repeat or dropped. This is with exact 71.928 hz (72/1.001) refresh rate. Any suggestion to improve things even more?

[ashlar42]

With sanear audio renderer, I've managed to make 1 frame repeat or drop to around 5 hours, with mpc-be audio renderer with wasapi and "sync audio to video", I've managed to make around 10 hours on 1 frame repeat or dropped. This is with exact 71.928 hz (72/1.001) refresh rate. Any suggestion to improve things even more?Siso, I'm not familiar with MPC-BE but if you read the guide, you should understand that the aim is not to have a "perfect" refresh rate, but a refresh rate that takes in consideration the differences between audio and video clock. And the guide explains how to do that.

[CarlosCaco]

I get a new pc with a GTX 570...
Made a resolution in cru for 23.976

I get a great a result on the first try, but in osd the refresh rate Kepp oscilating between 23.97635 and 23.97634 so the frame repeteads keep oscilating too between 13 and 14 hours.... someone know why this happening? I not pushing the gpu tô limite and the temperatures are above 60c

[huhn]

just live with it.

[nevcairiel]

I get a new pc with a GTX 570...
Made a resolution in cru for 23.976

I get a great a result on the first try, but in osd the refresh rate Kepp oscilating between 23.97635 and 23.97634 so the frame repeteads keep oscilating too between 13 and 14 hours.... someone know why this happening? I not pushing the gpu tô limite and the temperatures are above 60c

Graphics card clock generators are usually not accurate enough to get an absolutely perfect result in some cases.

It seems however unlikely that one frame drop or repeat every 13 or 14 hours is going to be a problem, as movies or shows typically aren't that long. ;)

[CarlosCaco]

Graphics card clock generators are usually not accurate enough to get an absolutely perfect result in some cases.

It seems however unlikely that one frame drop or repeat every 13 or 14 hours is going to be a problem, as movies or shows typically aren't that long. ;)

Yeah this is not the problem, the problem is that the oscilating reports make very difficult to apply the same values to
Other modes like in this guide, so i have tô calculate each mode separated

[ashlar42]

Hi Carlos. Unfortunately this is not an exact science. I mentioned some inconsistencies in the guide. I don't know why but they are to be expected. As others have pointed out, the important thing is ending up with results that are "good enough". If you have drops or repeats after 13 or 14 hours it's pretty much the same as "never" for all intended purposes.

[CarlosCaco]

I m happy with the results, the question was just because with this situation I can t apply the part 10 of This guide wich saves a lot of time... just asked to know if there's something wrong, but is okay I will take some more tim to fine tune my others refresh rates...

[ashlar42]

I m happy with the results, the question was just because with this situation I can t apply the part 10 of This guide wich saves a lot of time... just asked to know if there's something wrong, but is okay I will take some more tim to fine tune my others refresh rates...Well, if the variation is between 13 and 14 hours, I would try a median factor for part 10 of the guide. It should provide satisfactory results. Is that not the case?

[Q-the-STORM]

Q-the-STORM, what about trying CRU?

When I use CRU to set the custom resolution and restart the driver, it sets resolution to 1080p60 and nvidia panel is suddenly showing that I'm connected via DVI instead of HDMI and max resolution is 1080p... so for me setting 2160p23 with CRU isn't quite working...

[ryrynz]

Trying to get 23.976Hz from a GTX 960 to a Panasonic VT50.
This (http://i.imgur.com/hrYaKHj.png) is what I've set based on the guide on first page, using this I get a black screen upon entering Windows.

Based on what Lynx74 says here, (http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?page=65) he required between 2630 and 2650 total horizontal lines to get an image. What do I do now?

[QBhd]

did you try the one just below it?... many times the top of the list do not work... just keep going down the list until you find one that works... it's not rocket science

QB

[CarlosCaco]

Don't forget to add the custom extension blocks like hdmi support and whatever your display needs

[ashlar42]

Trying to get 23.976Hz from a GTX 960 to a Panasonic VT50.
This (http://i.imgur.com/hrYaKHj.png) is what I've set based on the guide on first page, using this I get a black screen upon entering Windows.

Based on what Lynx74 says here, (http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?page=65) he required between 2630 and 2650 total horizontal lines to get an image. What do I do now?
I see high pixel clocks in PCC, in the background of your photo. To get exact timings, you need to input 24 Hz and tick the 1/1.001 checkbox. You should also try to use 2 as multiple for horizontal blanking.

I get these timings you could check: http://pastebin.com/DkAeLJyp

[CarlosCaco]

In my tv cru LCD standard timings don t work... only with native works... maybe you can give a try to native...

[ashlar42]

Thanks Carlos for the kind words in the madVR thread. Much appreciated.

[CarlosCaco]

Thanks Carlos for the kind words in the madVR thread. Much appreciated.

We have to reconize when someone does a good job

[ryrynz]

I get these timings you could check: http://pastebin.com/DkAeLJyp

Cheers. I'll give that a shot. I have set a custom res in the nvidia control panel. Dropping one pixel off is giving good results. What is actually being done for this to happen?

http://i.imgur.com/WnjJlcil.jpg

This gives me 24.9755 and seems to be the only thing that works.
Is that really the best I can achieve? It appears my display prefers the resolution to not change too much as various options in the pastebin results did not work.

[huhn]

why do you care about the refresh rate?

you should only care about the dropped repeat frame indicator nothing else.

[ashlar42]

ryrynz, I am sorry if the guide is not crystal clear in this regard. Its objective is most definitely NOT that of aiming to have a perfect 24/1.001 refresh rate in and by itself.

The aim of the guide is to calculate what is the perfect refresh rate to aim at FOR YOU (for your combination of audio and video clocks). The guide does the opposite of what Reclock does. Reclock modifies the audio playback speed, here we leave audio alone an slightly tweak refresh rate in order to compensate for the mis-synchronization of audio and video clock.

I suggest you re-read the guide, all of it, step by step. If there's anything you don't understand, feel free to ask here and I will be more than happy to clarify. The timings I posted for you were just a starting point to help with #3 of the guide. But you need to follow it all and understand the logic behind it.

[Snecx]

I have a question how to fill in the start values for PCC. I use a Philips FTV to watch movies with madVR.
If i start CRU i get the left picture.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af29/snecxxx/manuel_zpsbfyp7lu3.png (http://s990.photobucket.com/user/snecxxx/media/manuel_zpsbfyp7lu3.png.html)
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af29/snecxxx/auto_zpsaeer9xnf.png (http://s990.photobucket.com/user/snecxxx/media/auto_zpsaeer9xnf.png.html)

Now i click add detailed resolution and i can choose between manuel timing and standard lcd timing.

a) What should i choose?
b) Which values do i need to enter now in PCC for min/max horz. blanking and for min/max vert. blanking.
As i understand if i choose the manuel timing i need to enter
280 for min. horz. blanking and about 500 for max. horz. blanking
If i choose standard LCD timing i need to enter min 830 and for max about 1050.

Or what values do i need to enter in PCC to start?

[huhn]

you have to read and understand the guide.

no one here knows your clock deviations and we can find that out for you.

[ashlar42]

a) What should i choose?
b) Which values do i need to enter now in PCC for min/max horz. blanking and for min/max vert. blanking.
As i understand if i choose the manuel timing i need to enter
280 for min. horz. blanking and about 500 for max. horz. blanking
If i choose standard LCD timing i need to enter min 830 and for max about 1050.

Or what values do i need to enter in PCC to start?
a) In CRU you need to choose manual timings.
b) You need to understand the following:
Front porch + sync width + back porch = blanking
Active + blanking = total

As I wrote, the maximum and minimum blanking depend on your screen, feel free to use the values I used in my example and see how it goes. The active portion is always the same (it's the resolution you want to display, basically), so different values in maximum and minimum blanking just give you different options for timings to try out. If you go out of specifications for your screen, it will simply fail to show a picture and CRU will revert back.

[Snecx]

Thank you ashlar42.

Front porch + sync width + back porch = blanking that was the part i didn't understand.

Now i can start to optimize my timings.

Thx again for the guide.

[sucht]

sorry, but i am pretty stupid when it comes to math, and windows calculator does not help me at all. but maybe it's not a problem i have with math, and there is something i am supposed to see, but... :/

i get, 1 frame repeat every 1.8 hours on a 23.976 fps file after an hour.
composition rate is 23.976 Hz with madVR showing me ~ "display 23.97622 Hz".

i tried doing what ashlar42 wrote, 1 frame repeat every (108 x 60) = 6480 seconds | 1 / (6480 * 23.976) = 6.43647762989327, that is ?? ppm. and that's where it stops for my brain.

how to do the rest ( 23.976 * (1-?? ppm) ---> 23.976 * (1-6.43647762989327 ??) ---> 23.976 * ?? = ?? (we approximate to the eight decimal here). ), i don't know :/

i can live with this 1.8 hours for 23.976 files/blu-ray stuff, but i also have a lot of DVDs and they have different FPS.
i want to know/learn how to do this thing my brain likes to stop at.

i'm sorry for being stupid and i hope someone can help me with this problem of mine.


a big thank you in advance.

[ashlar42]

sucht, it's 0.00000643647 that is 6.43647ppm

Since there are frame repeats, you need to subctract in order to get the refresh rate to aim for.

23.976 x (1-0.00000643647) ---> 23.976 x 0.999993564 = 23.97584568

Instead of aiming for 23.976 you need to aim for 23.97584568Hz.

I hope it's clear for you. You could get great results from the first go or need to iterate a couple of times to reach a good result. Only when you are satisfied with the result you could use point 9 in the guide to establish the factor by which audio and video clock differ and apply it to other refresh rates.

As usual, bear in mind that "good results" not necessarily will get you days before drops/repeats. As long as you manage to get to... I don't know, 6 hours? It's likely you will never see a drop or repeat in your life, to get that you ought to watch a video for six hours straight, without ever pausing it. And... well, nature has its needs for us human beings :D

[sucht]

sucht, it's 0.00000643647 that is 6.43647ppm

Since there are frame repeats, you need to subctract in order to get the refresh rate to aim for.

23.976 x (1-0.00000643647) ---> 23.976 x 0.999993564 = 23.97584568

Instead of aiming for 23.976 you need to aim for 23.97584568Hz.

I hope it's clear for you. You could get great results from the first go or need to iterate a couple of times to reach a good result. Only when you are satisfied with the result you could use point 9 in the guide to establish the factor by which audio and video clock differ and apply it to other refresh rates.

As usual, bear in mind that "good results" not necessarily will get you days before drops/repeats. As long as you manage to get to... I don't know, 6 hours? It's likely you will never see a drop or repeat in your life, to get that you ought to watch a video for six hours straight, without ever pausing it. And... well, nature has its needs for us human beings :D



thank you, i knew my brain had some hiccups :)
i don't what the whole world, but some hours more would be cool, and thanks to you i can try :)

i wish you a good day/evening, and thanks for making it more clear for my brain :)

[Siso]

Trying to get 71.928 hz refresh rate, best I can get is 71.931 hz, any help will be appreciated :)

here is a screenshot

https://9-t.imgbox.com/4j42OeDi.jpg (http://imgbox.com/4j42OeDi)

[huhn]

read the guide and understand that aim at 71.928 hz is pointless.

[Siso]

read the guide and understand that aim at 71.928 hz is pointless.

How so?

[nevcairiel]

You need the rate to match your clock drift, not get to exactly 23.9760 or any of its multiples. The drift can throw it off in either direction a quite a bit.

[Siso]

You need the rate to match your clock drift, not get to exactly 23.9760 or any of its multiples. The drift can throw it off in either direction a quite a bit.

I see...what about nvidia custom resolution vs custom resolution utility which is better to use?

[huhn]

what you like more.

[ashlar42]

I see...what about nvidia custom resolution vs custom resolution utility which is better to use?As mentioned, use whatever works for you.
In madVR thread you said the guide would be better with 23.976Hz and multiple refresh rates but... it really doesn't matter. The example is with 50Hz but the whole logic remains exactly the same. Having a different refresh rate example, with different targets (as clocks differ for everyone), wouldn't be much more helpful, I think.

I tried to make the guide as easy to understand as I could but if there are "foggy" passages please do let me know, as I'd love to make it clearer.

[Siso]

what you like more.

The odd thing is that both softwares shows different digits.

[ashlar42]

The odd thing is that both softwares shows different digits.If you read the guide and understand its principles, you'll see that if you use one of the two softwares (CRU or Nvidia CP) and stick with it, the numbers shown matter quite relatively.

The important thing is the info provided by madVR and the direction you need to move the refresh rate toward.

[Siso]

If you read the guide and understand its principles, you'll see that if you use one of the two softwares (CRU or Nvidia CP) and stick with it, the numbers shown matter quite relatively.

The important thing is the info provided by madVR and the direction you need to move the refresh rate toward.

That's good but why is there a difference in the numbers, example here are screenshots:

https://5-t.imgbox.com/18EKUjC0.jpg (http://imgbox.com/18EKUjC0) https://8-t.imgbox.com/lvNUIpk6.jpg (http://imgbox.com/lvNUIpk6)

[ashlar42]

As I said, you should not compare the two approaches. Pick one and stick to it.
For what is worth, I've *always* (from GTX 460 times) found the Nvidia CP seriously messed up and this is why I went with CRU.

In any case, the underlying math is identical. So the fact that you see different numbers depends on the initial conditions you set up (and I don't know what they are but, again, they're kind of irrelevant for what we try to reach here).

[Siso]

As I said, you should not compare the two approaches. Pick one and stick to it.
For what is worth, I've *always* (from GTX 460 times) found the Nvidia CP seriously messed up and this is why I went with CRU.

In any case, the underlying math is identical. So the fact that you see different numbers depends on the initial conditions you set up (and I don't know what they are but, again, they're kind of irrelevant for what we try to reach here).

Whenever I try refresh rate of 71.928 hz with reclock it doesn't play that smoothly as with 72 hz with reclock, I have no idea why...

[huhn]

maybe your screen doesn't like custom refresh rate like that and is dropping frames.

[Siso]

maybe your screen doesn't like custom refresh rate like that and is dropping frames.

It's not dropping frames in madvr, but panning shots are not that smooth. It is better with 72 hz tho, but not with 71.928 hz.

[huhn]

how should madVR know if your screen is dropping frames?

there are test for this: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

[Siso]

how should madVR know if your screen is dropping frames?

there are test for this: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

No problems during the test with 72 hz :)

[ashlar42]

Could you please provide a screen capture (or photo) of madVR statistics (CTRL+J) for the two different refresh rates, without Reclock (what audio renderer are you using?)?

[Siso]

Could you please provide a screen capture (or photo) of madVR statistics (CTRL+J) for the two different refresh rates, without Reclock (what audio renderer are you using?)?

I'm using reclock.

[QBhd]

This guide is for people who don't use ReClock... ReClock works best if your screen is as close to 72.000 as possible (or any multiple of 24.000).

With this guide I took ReClock out of my playback chain, and have never looked back.

QB

[fairchild]

I appreciate the time made to make this guide, and am glad it's working for some. I'm relatively tech savy but I tried it once and didn't go through with it. (I went to school for computer engineering for 3 years, am a certified pc repair tech, I build new PC's from scratch, I also own a spectrometer and calibrate TV's for fun fro myself and family/friends) Maybe it's not needed for me since I own a Panasonic VT60 plasma which has a 96mhz mode that gives me a near perfect 23.976 mode with no flicker and I rarely notice judder.

[ashlar42]

I'm using reclock.You wrote you were worried about losing Atmos. If you use Reclock you lose Atmos, it's as simple as that.
Following this guide you ought to be able to reach a repeat/drop level that makes playback perfect for any kind of content you might reasonably want to watch.

[ashlar42]

I appreciate the time made to make this guide, and am glad it's working for some. I'm relatively tech savy but I tried it once and didn't go through with it. (I went to school for computer engineering for 3 years, am a certified pc repair tech, I build new PC's from scratch, I also own a spectrometer and calibrate TV's for fun fro myself and family/friends) Maybe it's not needed for me since I own a Panasonic VT60 plasma which has a 96mhz mode that gives me a near perfect 23.976 mode with no flicker and I rarely notice judder.It would help me a great deal if you could articulate what you find hard to understand.

Maybe I should rewrite and make clearer the general purpose and approach needed.

Edit: I've added this:

At a basic level, to reach a low enough number of drops/repeats, you need to increase your refresh rate in case of frames dropped and decrease it in case of frames repeated.

[Siso]

You wrote you were worried about losing Atmos. If you use Reclock you lose Atmos, it's as simple as that.
Following this guide you ought to be able to reach a repeat/drop level that makes playback perfect for any kind of content you might reasonably want to watch.

I didn't write anything about atmos. It must be some other guy.
In a matter of the guide, it is hard to understand which values you have to input in the PCC, it could be easier with more examples, but that is my personal opinion. As far as content, i'm wondering if I ever achieve almost perfect 71.928 hz what about content that is 24 fps?

[Siso]

This guide is for people who don't use ReClock... ReClock works best if your screen is as close to 72.000 as possible (or any multiple of 24.000).

With this guide I took ReClock out of my playback chain, and have never looked back.

QB

I'm pretty close to 72 hz, so reclock helps me.

[ashlar42]

I didn't write anything about atmos. It must be some other guy.
In a matter of the guide, it is hard to understand which values you have to input in the PCC, it could be easier with more examples, but that is my personal opinion. As far as content, i'm wondering if I ever achieve almost perfect 71.928 hz what about content that is 24 fps?Man... I don't know how to tell you...

You *DO NOT* want to aim for perfect 24/1.001 (and multipliers) refresh rate. You need to check, without Reclock, for frames dropped or repeated and then, following the guide, adjust your refresh rate up or down, in order to compensate for audio clock drift.

[huhn]

you make that pretty clear in the guide...
same in the madVR thread. i really really don't know what's so complicated about this topic.

display refresh rate is just a number calculated from the system clock.

[Siso]

Man... I don't know how to tell you...

You *DO NOT* want to aim for perfect 24/1.001 (and multipliers) refresh rate. You need to check, without Reclock, for frames dropped or repeated and then, following the guide, adjust your refresh rate up or down, in order to compensate for audio clock drift.

I know, but can you tell me from where you type the minimum and the maximum horizontal blanking and minimum and maximum vertical blanking in PCC, they are from CRU but how you multiply them? Here is a screenshot from CRU.

https://5-t.imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG.jpg (http://imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG)

[Dorohedoro]

This guide is amazing, its a bit hard to follow specially if you are not a native english speaker like me, but in general solved my problem with dropped frames every 40 seconds in 60hz. Now my refresh rate is something like 59.94xxx and I have a frame dropped after 5 or so hours, amazing! a shame I have a random weird shuttering problem sometimes, but I think is not related to the refresh rate.

Thank you so much for this guide, is really useful.

[Siso]

This guide is amazing, its a bit hard to follow specially if you are not a native english speaker like me, but in general solved my problem with dropped frames every 40 seconds in 60hz. Now my refresh rate is something like 59.94xxx and I have a frame dropped after 5 or so hours, amazing! a shame I have a random weird shuttering problem sometimes, but I think is not related to the refresh rate.

Thank you so much for this guide, is really useful.

Do you know from what the weird stuttering occurs?

[Dorohedoro]

I have no idea and its driving me crazy, I think it might be my videocard (gtx660) but Im not so sure because it happens with every file, even with sd content.

[Dorohedoro]

Im sorry but I have no idea and its driving me crazy.

[huhn]

3:2 judder?

[Dorohedoro]

3:2 judder?

No, its a jumpy irregular stutter, like the videocard or the cpu having trouble with the file. But its really weird because its happening with every file, even with sd content. Also, I just tested some videos on a different hdd with a different os installation (on the same pc) with a similar config (its my gaming hdd) and its the same, I think my videocard might be dying....

[ashlar42]

I know, but can you tell me from where you type the minimum and the maximum horizontal blanking and minimum and maximum vertical blanking in PCC, they are from CRU but how you multiply them? Here is a screenshot from CRU.

https://5-t.imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG.jpg (http://imgbox.com/bJiBf3HG)You have a 21:9 screen?

In any case, are those numbers working if you use them to create a custom resolution? If they are, launch a movie, wait the right amount of time (as suggested in the guide, at least 30 minutes is ideal) and take note of what madVR tells you in its playback stats. Are frames repeated? Dropped? With what frequency? You take note of that and follow the calculations explained in the guide to have a new refresh rate to aim for.

You input that in Pixel Clock Calculator and modify the custom resolution you created before. You launch the movie again and see that frames dropped/repeated are now less frequent. You can adjust again, and again and again, as long as you manage to get better results, aiming toward perfection.

As suggested, once you get to the "one frame repeat/drop" every 6 hours or better... it's merely an exercise toward perfection, because you will never be watching something for 6 hours without pause.

PS
I don't understand what you mean by "how do you multiply them"... I can only suggest to read the guide again, it's step by step... you can't go wrong.

[Siso]

You have a 21:9 screen?

In any case, are those numbers working if you use them to create a custom resolution? If they are, launch a movie, wait the right amount of time (as suggested in the guide, at least 30 minutes is ideal) and take note of what madVR tells you in its playback stats. Are frames repeated? Dropped? With what frequency? You take note of that and follow the calculations explained in the guide to have a new refresh rate to aim for.

You input that in Pixel Clock Calculator and modify the custom resolution you created before. You launch the movie again and see that frames dropped/repeated are now less frequent. You can adjust again, and again and again, as long as you manage to get better results, aiming toward perfection.

As suggested, once you get to the "one frame repeat/drop" every 6 hours or better... it's merely an exercise toward perfection, because you will never be watching something for 6 hours without pause.

PS
I don't understand what you mean by "how do you multiply them"... I can only suggest to read the guide again, it's step by step... you can't go wrong.

What I meant was - which values I should write in PCC - for minimum and maximum horizontal blank and minimum and maximum vertical blank.

[ashlar42]

This guide is amazing, its a bit hard to follow specially if you are not a native english speaker like me, but in general solved my problem with dropped frames every 40 seconds in 60hz. Now my refresh rate is something like 59.94xxx and I have a frame dropped after 5 or so hours, amazing! a shame I have a random weird shuttering problem sometimes, but I think is not related to the refresh rate.

Thank you so much for this guide, is really useful.Thanks for taking the time to write this, much appreciated. Glad you found it helpful.

[huhn]

No, its a jumpy irregular stutter, like the videocard or the cpu having trouble with the file. But its really weird because its happening with every file, even with sd content. Also, I just tested some videos on a different hdd with a different os installation (on the same pc) with a similar config (its my gaming hdd) and its the same, I think my videocard might be dying....

a screen of the OSD should tell everything

[Dorohedoro]

Thanks for taking the time to write this, much appreciated. Glad you found it helpful.

I'm really grateful, thank to you I can get rid of reclock and now I can send the sound untouched to my receiver.


a screen of the OSD should tell everything

Sure!

http://i.imgur.com/8FVfFBA.jpg

Thanks!

[huhn]

the file is played with a heavy 3:2 judder. if you get other issues it could be the screen having problem with the custom refresh rate.

but in the end a custom 59p refresh rate is pointless for 23p sources

[sauma144]

I have some stupid questions:
1) Do I have to redo everything in case of an update of my current GPU drivers?
2) Do I have to redo everything in case of a new graphic card?
3) Do I have to redo everything in case of a new display monitor?
4) Isn't it more simple to ask madshi for adding a reclock option inside madVR like on MPDN, Kodi, ...

[huhn]

1. as far as i know no
2. yes of cause every GPU has a different clock
3. depends
4. impossible madVR isn't an audio renderer and "only" an audio renderer can do this the madVR solution to this problem is smoothmotion.

this is pretty easy to do it's not rocket science once you understand it.

[Dorohedoro]

the file is played with a heavy 3:2 judder. if you get other issues it could be the screen having problem with the custom refresh rate.

but in the end a custom 59p refresh rate is pointless for 23p sources

Thanks, I'm going to try another refresh rate (23hz and 48hz)

[ashlar42]

Thanks, I'm going to try another refresh rate (23hz and 48hz)Yes, maybe I considered this implicit when writing the guide, but you clearly need to go for direct multipliers of the video framerate for your refresh rate.

[ashlar42]

What I meant was - which values I should write in PCC - for minimum and maximum horizontal blank and minimum and maximum vertical blank.From the guide:Comparing the standard LCD timings offered by CRU, fill in the minimum blanking and maximum blanking. As a minimum I tend to use the value offered by standard timings, with 2-300 more pixels as a maximum. Being more precise requires knowing the exact specifications of the screen you are using and it's clearly beyond the scope of this guide. What I suggest is what I've been doing, nothing more.
The point is that the higher the maximum blanking space you give, the more combinations of different timings you get to try out.

[Siso]

From the guide:
The point is that the higher the maximum blanking space you give, the more combinations of different timings you get to try out.

I see, in my case horizontal blanking is 160, and vertical blanking is 37, as shown in my previous screenshot. So by your guide I can add from 2 to 300 to these values?

[ashlar42]

I see, in my case horizontal blanking is 160, and vertical blanking is 37, as shown in my previous screenshot. So by your guide I can add from 2 to 300 to these values?Yes, this is trial and error. Whatever tool you use for custom resolutions always asks to confirm that the resolution is working, so if it is not... it simply reverts to the one working.

Having higher maximum blanking values, as an analogy, pretty much gives Pixel Clock Calculator a bigger "canvas to paint on".

The thing to understand is that the only pixels that are going to be visible are the one under Active entries. All the rest is not visible but is "calculated", as such it influences timings. Again, this is simplifying things but just to give you a general idea.

Edit: but please, do follow the steps in the guide. Never think, especially at the beginning, "I understand this". If you follow the steps you can't go wrong.

[Dorohedoro]

Yes, maybe I considered this implicit when writing the guide, but you clearly need to go for direct multipliers of the video framerate for your refresh rate.

but you should know that this guide also works with 60hz, my stuttering problem is not related with the refresh rate.

[huhn]

no it doesn't "work" you still have 12 repeated frames a sec with and with out this guide.

1 more dropped or repeated frame every 40sec to 10 mins doesn't make a difference.

[Dorohedoro]

Are you sure? I see everything smooth with the resulting refresh rate (around 59.9400) the problem I have is with the irregular shuttering and its totally random, its like the gpu cant deal with the videos.

I've doing some testings with 23hz and 48hz and I also have that random stutter. Im going to upgrade my videocard soon.

[ashlar42]

Dorohedoro, I think there's some confusion between what you are saying and what huhn is saying. When watching 24fps material at 60Hz, what you get is even frames played back 24 times per second and odd frames played back 36 times per second. This is why huhn says you are getting 12 repeated frames per second.

I have to be honest and say that I've never tried this, so I don't actually know how madVR is going to report it in its stats. In your screen capture it says one frame repeat every 8.09 hours and that might be related simply to the relationship between audio clock and video clock (the subject of this whole guide). But that has nothing to do with the fact that playing back 24fps material at 60Hz will lead to the aforementioned 3:2 judder. Which is something that people find more or less noticeable (to me it's akin to pestilence on my screen :D ). But it's there.

To play 24/23.976fps material you need 23/24Hz refresh rate.

When you get that "random stuttering" you refer to, what is madVR reporting in its stats (CTRL+J)?

[nussman]

if I dont use frame doubler deinterlace (0 threshold) in ffdshow the weird irregular judder will be worse.

I think this could cause "random stuttering".
Disable reclock, disable ffdshow, use LAV with madVR and then try huhn and ashlar42' advices. :)

[sauma144]

1. as far as i know no
2. yes of cause every GPU has a different clock
3. depends
4. impossible madVR isn't an audio renderer and "only" an audio renderer can do this the madVR solution to this problem is smoothmotion.

this is pretty easy to do it's not rocket science once you understand it.

Thanks! :)
It's maybe easy but a one click solution would be better.

[mitchmalibu]

Hi,

Great guide, I managed on the first try to get no repeated / dropped frames every 11 hours (23.976Hz), which is more than enough. However, do you know if it's possible to use custom color settings with these newly created custom resolutions ? I usually set the color settings to 4:2:2, 10bit, limited in the nvidia control panel (these seem to work best with my tv), but using these seems to break the custom clock settings I managed to get with CRU. I saw that CRU offered the possibility to generate 4:2:0 resolution, but the quality loss is a bit too much for my tastes.

thanks !

[ashlar42]

Hi,

Great guide, I managed on the first try to get no repeated / dropped frames every 11 hours (23.976Hz), which is more than enough. However, do you know if it's possible to use custom color settings with these newly created custom resolutions ? I usually set the color settings to 4:2:2, 10bit, limited in the nvidia control panel (these seem to work best with my tv), but using these seems to break the custom clock settings I managed to get with CRU. I saw that CRU offered the possibility to generate 4:2:0 resolution, but the quality loss is a bit too much for my tastes.

thanks !I did not have this problem and I managed to get 10bit playback in madVR FSE mode... I think you should ask on CRU forums for such an in-depth question.

[Romkilla]

Thank you very much for your tutorial.


With the tutorial PCC parameters and resolution 3840x2160@ 23.976Hz(madvr says 23.97457Hz)
It helped me to go from 1 frame repeated every 4 minutes to 1 frame drop every 59.44 minutes.

Unfortunately i can't do better than this, i need help :

1 frame drop every 59.44(x60=3566.4)
1 / (3566.4 * 23.976) = 0.00001169481
23.976 * 1.00001169481 = 23.97628039(48)

I'm i right with the calculation?

Because when i apply the new value from PCC into CRU nothing changes (just a little few Hz)

When i'm playing the video test the display is 23,97457Hz.
Should i use this value somehow?

It's the most difficult tutorial i ever tried to replicate.
I'm a french maths dumb and maybe missing something with the translation.

Any kind of help will be really appreciated.
Thanks.

[Asmodian]

It can be impossible, depending on display and GPU, to get better than that. Also, make sure you need better than that; do you actually get any frame drops when watching a two hour movie?

madVR's estimates are only estimates, test what you actually get for dropped frames.

[ashlar42]

Thank you very much for your tutorial.


With the tutorial PCC parameters and resolution 3840x2160@ 23.976Hz(madvr says 23.97457Hz)
It helped me to go from 1 frame repeated every 4 minutes to 1 frame drop every 59.44 minutes.

Unfortunately i can't do better than this, i need help :

1 frame drop every 59.44(x60=3566.4)
1 / (3566.4 * 23.976) = 0.00001169481
23.976 * 1.00001169481 = 23.97628039(48)

I'm i right with the calculation?

Because when i apply the new value from PCC into CRU nothing changes (just a little few Hz)

When i'm playing the video test the display is 23,97457Hz.
Should i use this value somehow?

It's the most difficult tutorial i ever tried to replicate.
I'm a french maths dumb and maybe missing something with the translation.I've tried keeping it as simple as possible but there's no going around the math involved (which is not too complicated but still...).

In any case, you are saying that madVR currently reports:

display 23.97457Hz
1 frame drop every 59.44 minutes

Correct? If it is, your calculations are correct.

What you are not telling us if what happens once you input the new timings for a 23.97628039Hz refresh rate. What does madVR report as refresh? Because you say it reports 23.97457Hz, which is what it was reporting with the old refresh rate.

In PCC I get this as a first result of resolution to try:

208.81 MHz 3984 x 2186 @ 23.976280235 Hz (+0.000000235 Hz)

Have you tried this? Because, as I wrote, unfortunately some combinations simply don't work, for reasons that are beyond my understanding. Try different combinations until you get results. In your case the need to increase the refresh rate is clearly pointed out by the frames being dropped. I'd be surprised if you won't be able to reach frames dropped in the range of hours, instead of minutes.

[QBhd]

The problem is he is not iterating, but continuing to multiply the adjustment against 23.976... Another problem people seem to have is the fixation on the reported refresh from madVR, it really should not even be considered except as a curiosity. 23.976 is a decent start for this process, but once you input 23.976 into PCC you will get an entirely new refresh rate that has 6 more significant figures of precision. That is the refresh rate that needs to be used to make your first calculation/adjustment based on your first drop/repeat data from madVR.

A ==> PCC ==>B
B ==> CRU ==>Playback to figure x, where x is the adjustment based on the madVR drop/repeat rate (s,min,hrs,days)
xB ==> PCC ==>C
C ==> CRU ==>Playback to figure y, where y is the adjustment based on the madVR drop/repeat rate (s,min,hrs,days)
yC ==> PCC ==>D

etc etc etc

QB

[ashlar42]

Yes, the process is iterative. But the first step he's doing is correct. He uses precise 24/1.001 timings and checks what happens. He gets 1 frame drop every 59.44 minutes.

He then does:

1 frame drop every 59.44(x60=3566.4)
1 / (3566.4 * 23.976) = 0.00001169481
23.976 * 1.00001169481 = 23.97628039(48)

And 23.97628039 is the refresh rate he should try and aim for. The iteration begins the next time.
To be more precise he could do (24/1.001)*1.00001169481 which gives a refresh rate to aim for of 23.97630437, for which PCC gives this as the closest approximation:

219.87 MHz 4224 x 2171 @ 23.976304384 Hz (+0.000000014 Hz)

It's only in the "second pass" that the formula will become:

23.976304384 (this is the above refresh rate, in case we use that) * (whatever the result of frames dropped/repeated calculation is going to be).

[Romkilla]

Hello, i'm sorry to reply so late, i'm a lot busy with my work.
My calculation where wrong because madvr was switching to a 2160p23 custom resolution i have created in the nvidia control panel. This is why nothing where changing and i apologize for this.
Without any custom resolution my real deviation is:
1 frame repeat every 4.42 min with a display at 23.97860 Hz
1 / (265.2 * 23.976) = 0.00015727139
23.976 * 0.99984272861 = 23.97222926(12)
But with this refresh rate i'm having kind of same delay but with frame drop this time.
Told you i'm a little bit dumb but at least this time the display refresh rate change to 23.971...something.

I'm again lost with this beacause i think my calculations are right.
Thanks for your time and your help.

[huhn]

check out the new madVR version https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

* added new "display modes" -> "custom modes" settings tab

[ashlar42]

Yes, the new options in madVR strive to achieve what I tried to explain here. Doing it automatically instead of manually.

[Romkilla]

The integration in MadVR look to be THE solution, anyway i want to understand your tutorial and the way the things are going on. And i want to thank you again "ashlar42" for the time you put helping me and other people. Again i don't understand why has i tried to explained my calculations are leading me to a 23.971... refresh rate.
:thanks:

[mkanet]

I'm curious, is there any benefit to using this method for 60.000Hz/60fps playback (while madVR's Smooth Motion is always on)? I'm seeing 1 frame repeat every 42.22 seconds for 23.976fps material. 0 dropped frames.

[huhn]

no useless in this case. with active smoothmotion the repeat/drop a frame every X is worthless.

[ashlar42]

The integration in MadVR look to be THE solution, anyway i want to understand your tutorial and the way the things are going on. And i want to thank you again "ashlar42" for the time you put helping me and other people. Again i don't understand why has i tried to explained my calculations are leading me to a 23.971... refresh rate.
:thanks:As mentioned in the guide, unfortunately while the principle is sound, the interaction between drivers, GPU and screen can lead to "strange" results. Try different timings, close ones to where you want to get and see if things get better.
Pixel Clock Calculator offers many different timings, try different ones.

I'm glad you appreciate the guide. :)

[hautfr]

Hello all,
Would it be possible please to get the pictures at the beginning of this guide as the initial hosting provider website is down? Alternatively another tutorial for the iteration process for a dummy?
NB: I can't use MadVR new custom modes with my JVC and NVIDIA, does not work, none of the modes are accepted.
Thank you for any help you might provide.

[Klaus1189]

Use CRU with the suggested numbers of madVR. This is driver related, but CRU should be fine.

[ashlar42]

Hello all,
Would it be possible please to get the pictures at the beginning of this guide as the initial hosting provider website is down? Alternatively another tutorial for the iteration process for a dummy?
NB: I can't use MadVR new custom modes with my JVC and NVIDIA, does not work, none of the modes are accepted.
Thank you for any help you might provide.I have them saved. I'll update the opening post.
Edit: nope... I spoke too soon. Damn!

[hautfr]

I have them saved. I'll update the opening post.
Edit: nope... I spoke too soon. Damn!

Hi ashlar42,
Any chance of re-uploading the pictures (or do new ones?) please, this guide would be very useful to me and others but without the pictures very complicated to follow...
All the best and Happy New Year to all.

[ashlar42]

Hi ashlar42,
Any chance of re-uploading the pictures (or do new ones?) please, this guide would be very useful to me and others but without the pictures very complicated to follow...
All the best and Happy New Year to all.I can only retake the pictures. I'll need some time to do that, sorry. :(

[hautfr]

Dear ashlar42,
No chance to re-take pictures yet please?
Many thanks

[ashlar42]

I will redo the process on a 1080p screen soon. I will grab new screenshots then.

[Wam7]

I will redo the process on a 1080p screen soon. I will grab new screenshots then.I sincerely hope you are still with us and doing well.

I'd love to give this a try to see if I can get smoother playback using my 4K TV. I've sync'd the refresh rate of the TV to 24Hz but still not getting smooth playback.

Any chance you could do those pictures again?

[ashlar42]

I sincerely hope you are still with us and doing well.

I'd love to give this a try to see if I can get smoother playback using my 4K TV. I've sync'd the refresh rate of the TV to 24Hz but still not getting smooth playback.

Any chance you could do those pictures again?Oh, man... I'm truly sorry. Pandemic hit and this thing went completely out of my mind.

Tried redoing it on my daughter's PC (she's got a 1080p 144Hz monitor). I managed to screw it up so badly I had to enter recovery mode to have a picture after booting into Windows.

At this point the most likely thing to happen is me redoing this when I finally get a 4K TV. No way I risk messing up my daughter's PC a second time. :-D

[Charky]

In case anyone wonders, this method still works in 2023, with maybe a few updates.

My setup : Win 11, RTX 3090, latest driver (537.42) --> Denon X2800H --> LG OLED 65C2.

A bit of context: I need custom resolutions because on my setup, out of the box, I have a dropped frame every 47 minutes with 23.976 fps content. I have an Atmos setup, so reclock/videoclock is off the table. Madvr custom modes mostly don't work (the tab won't even show up on my Win 11 install). Nvidia control panel (NVCP) is completely buggy and more often than not won't let user create, modify or even delete custom resolutions, or they won't work. My last chance was this thread, and CRU.

And it worked!

After a few rounds of measurements, I managed to go from 1 dropped frame every 47 minutes (with stock timings) to 1 dropped/repeated frame every 1.13 hours, then 6.11 hours, then 10ish hours. Which is well enough for me. I don't watch 10 hours movies. And you probably don't either.

Here are a few random tips I learnt the hard way during the last 24 hours:

- As of now, the latest version of CRU is 1.5.2 : https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU (you might want to read that first post).

- If you're trying to create a custom 2160p23(.976) resolution, the only thing you probably need to do is use CRU to create an "extension block" containing a (custom) "detailed resolution" within a "Display ID" (1.3 worked for me). I ticked "preferred" and put it above the existing extension block, but I'm not sure any of this actually matters.

- On a TV or a projector, you should probably use CRU provided "Automatic HDTV" timings as a baseline (select that, enter the target frequency (in my case 23.976 Hz) then select "manual", the values are kept). Create a custom resolution with default timings, then work from there using the method and formulas described in the first post of this thread to measure clock deviation, to find better timings, and to gradually EDIT this custom resolution. Repeat a few times until you reach someting that works well enough for you.

- You need to delete any similar resolutions within the CTA-861 extension block (click on that, then "edit", then TV resolutions, etc.). That part puzzled me for hours before I found the solution deep inside madvr official thread. I had to delete existing 2160p24 to make my 2160p23 custom resolution kick in. Don't ask me why, it just worked. Before I did that, my custom resolution was not actually applied or I experienced crashes.

- Beware : NVCP-created custom resolutions override CRU custom resolutions. So you need to delete any nvidia custom resolution you might have previously created. Sometimes NVCP won't let you delete a custom resolution. If that happens, you don't need a clean driver install, you can instead use a piece of software called "Nvidia Custom Resolutions Backup Tool" (which, as the name doesn't suggest, can also delete them in windows registry :D) : https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidia-custom-resolutions-backup-tool.373845/

- You need to restart your GPU driver every time you change a thing in CRU. You can use CRU-provided restart(64).exe but hey, now there's a windows shortcut for that : win+ctrl+shift+B. Useful to fix most black screen issues without rebooting.

- You can import-export your EDID with CRU. When you find working timings, export to back up. When you screw up, import your last good settings.

- In the worst cases, CRU can prevent windows from booting. Use windows safe mode or, even better, une another display (or another GPU port), to boot windows and to reset CRU. with reset-all.exe

Hope that helps someone!

And of course, a million thanks to original poster (if he's still around) :)

[ashlar42]

And of course, a million thanks to original poster (if he's still around) :)
Always glad to see this is still helping people. I never managed to redo the screenshots and the whole guide would need a reworking. But the principles hold true, as you've seen.

Thanks for thanking me, I really do appreciate it.

[skarafaz]

Hi guys! Thanks to this thread I managed to set up a custom 2160p23 resolution that gives me 1 frame drop every 2 days (that I think is enough), but... I'm still experiencing a lot of judder during playback! Do you have any ideas about what might be the cause of the problem? I'm going mad.

[giraffejumper]

Hi guys! Thanks to this thread I managed to set up a custom 2160p23 resolution that gives me 1 frame drop every 2 days (that I think is enough), but... I'm still experiencing a lot of judder during playback! Do you have any ideas about what might be the cause of the problem? I'm going mad.

I wish I had advice for your judder.
But PLEASE feel free to let us know how you did this with a 4k display.
This guide is wonderful and I would like to use it for my Epson projector, but it seems like it was made when most people still had 1080p equipment.
And I'm apparently going to need to take college classes to figure out how to use CRU lol.
I was led here when I was trying to get the built in madvr custom resolution working, but my driver keeps rejecting it.

[giraffejumper]

In case anyone wonders, this method still works in 2023, with maybe a few updates.

My setup : Win 11, RTX 3090, latest driver (537.42) --> Denon X2800H --> LG OLED 65C2.

A bit of context: I need custom resolutions because on my setup, out of the box, I have a dropped frame every 47 minutes with 23.976 fps content. I have an Atmos setup, so reclock/videoclock is off the table. Madvr custom modes mostly don't work (the tab won't even show up on my Win 11 install). Nvidia control panel (NVCP) is completely buggy and more often than not won't let user create, modify or even delete custom resolutions, or they won't work. My last chance was this thread, and CRU.

And it worked!

After a few rounds of measurements, I managed to go from 1 dropped frame every 47 minutes (with stock timings) to 1 dropped/repeated frame every 1.13 hours, then 6.11 hours, then 10ish hours. Which is well enough for me. I don't watch 10 hours movies. And you probably don't either.

Here are a few random tips I learnt the hard way during the last 24 hours:

- As of now, the latest version of CRU is 1.5.2 : https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU (you might want to read that first post).

- If you're trying to create a custom 2160p23(.976) resolution, the only thing you probably need to do is use CRU to create an "extension block" containing a (custom) "detailed resolution" within a "Display ID" (1.3 worked for me). I ticked "preferred" and put it above the existing extension block, but I'm not sure any of this actually matters.

- On a TV or a projector, you should probably use CRU provided "Automatic HDTV" timings as a baseline (select that, enter the target frequency (in my case 23.976 Hz) then select "manual", the values are kept). Create a custom resolution with default timings, then work from there using the method and formulas described in the first post of this thread to measure clock deviation, to find better timings, and to gradually EDIT this custom resolution. Repeat a few times until you reach someting that works well enough for you.

- You need to delete any similar resolutions within the CTA-861 extension block (click on that, then "edit", then TV resolutions, etc.). That part puzzled me for hours before I found the solution deep inside madvr official thread. I had to delete existing 2160p24 to make my 2160p23 custom resolution kick in. Don't ask me why, it just worked. Before I did that, my custom resolution was not actually applied or I experienced crashes.

- Beware : NVCP-created custom resolutions override CRU custom resolutions. So you need to delete any nvidia custom resolution you might have previously created. Sometimes NVCP won't let you delete a custom resolution. If that happens, you don't need a clean driver install, you can instead use a piece of software called "Nvidia Custom Resolutions Backup Tool" (which, as the name doesn't suggest, can also delete them in windows registry :D) : https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidia-custom-resolutions-backup-tool.373845/

- You need to restart your GPU driver every time you change a thing in CRU. You can use CRU-provided restart(64).exe but hey, now there's a windows shortcut for that : win+ctrl+shift+B. Useful to fix most black screen issues without rebooting.

- You can import-export your EDID with CRU. When you find working timings, export to back up. When you screw up, import your last good settings.

- In the worst cases, CRU can prevent windows from booting. Use windows safe mode or, even better, une another display (or another GPU port), to boot windows and to reset CRU. with reset-all.exe

Hope that helps someone!

And of course, a million thanks to original poster (if he's still around) :)

Thanks for posting this!
I'm so lost trying to figure out how to do this all with higher resolutions.
I plan to read the whole CRU forum to hopefully learn to correctly use this program lol.
Wish someone made a decent Youtube video for it like everything else.

[rjgn]

In case anyone wonders, this method still works in 2023, with maybe a few updates.

My setup : Win 11, RTX 3090, latest driver (537.42) --> Denon X2800H --> LG OLED 65C2.

A bit of context: I need custom resolutions because on my setup, out of the box, I have a dropped frame every 47 minutes with 23.976 fps content. I have an Atmos setup, so reclock/videoclock is off the table. Madvr custom modes mostly don't work (the tab won't even show up on my Win 11 install). Nvidia control panel (NVCP) is completely buggy and more often than not won't let user create, modify or even delete custom resolutions, or they won't work. My last chance was this thread, and CRU.

And it worked!

After a few rounds of measurements, I managed to go from 1 dropped frame every 47 minutes (with stock timings) to 1 dropped/repeated frame every 1.13 hours, then 6.11 hours, then 10ish hours. Which is well enough for me. I don't watch 10 hours movies. And you probably don't either.

Here are a few random tips I learnt the hard way during the last 24 hours:

- As of now, the latest version of CRU is 1.5.2 : https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU (you might want to read that first post).

- If you're trying to create a custom 2160p23(.976) resolution, the only thing you probably need to do is use CRU to create an "extension block" containing a (custom) "detailed resolution" within a "Display ID" (1.3 worked for me). I ticked "preferred" and put it above the existing extension block, but I'm not sure any of this actually matters.

- On a TV or a projector, you should probably use CRU provided "Automatic HDTV" timings as a baseline (select that, enter the target frequency (in my case 23.976 Hz) then select "manual", the values are kept). Create a custom resolution with default timings, then work from there using the method and formulas described in the first post of this thread to measure clock deviation, to find better timings, and to gradually EDIT this custom resolution. Repeat a few times until you reach someting that works well enough for you.

- You need to delete any similar resolutions within the CTA-861 extension block (click on that, then "edit", then TV resolutions, etc.). That part puzzled me for hours before I found the solution deep inside madvr official thread. I had to delete existing 2160p24 to make my 2160p23 custom resolution kick in. Don't ask me why, it just worked. Before I did that, my custom resolution was not actually applied or I experienced crashes.

- Beware : NVCP-created custom resolutions override CRU custom resolutions. So you need to delete any nvidia custom resolution you might have previously created. Sometimes NVCP won't let you delete a custom resolution. If that happens, you don't need a clean driver install, you can instead use a piece of software called "Nvidia Custom Resolutions Backup Tool" (which, as the name doesn't suggest, can also delete them in windows registry :D) : https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidia-custom-resolutions-backup-tool.373845/

- You need to restart your GPU driver every time you change a thing in CRU. You can use CRU-provided restart(64).exe but hey, now there's a windows shortcut for that : win+ctrl+shift+B. Useful to fix most black screen issues without rebooting.

- You can import-export your EDID with CRU. When you find working timings, export to back up. When you screw up, import your last good settings.

- In the worst cases, CRU can prevent windows from booting. Use windows safe mode or, even better, une another display (or another GPU port), to boot windows and to reset CRU. with reset-all.exe

Hope that helps someone!

And of course, a million thanks to original poster (if he's still around) :)


I spent spent 3 whole days trying to get this to work!

In the end no matter what I did, I just couldn't get anywhere near the results I should have. I double, triple check my calculations, etc.

However I ended up using CRU to create a totally new extension block (which seemed to make the madvr custom tab pop up) and almost on my first try customizing the 23.97 refresh through madvr I ended up with a dropped frame every 3.6 days!

I have a similar setup, Denon AVR, LG olded, but really I was looking to get perfect playback on my Epson PJ. Which I've now got.

So even though I didn't end up using this exact method thanks to everyone here for some inspiration.

[hautfr]

Hello all,
First of all thank you for this guide and all the good work.

My set-up: Win10 Pro / Nvidia GTX1080 (442.74 / 64bits) / MPC-BE – MadVR / JVC DLA-RS46 (X35).

I am trying to set-up Custom Resolutions 3840x2160 at various frequencies (23, 24, 25, 30, 59, 60). Such resolutions are already available in Windows/NVidia CP, but require optimization to avoid significant drop/repeat frames.

I have tried to use MadVR for this but it does not work as it triggers the “JVC pink bug”, so I have probably no other option than doing it manually with CRU/PCC as explained here, but I need more clarity on it and therefore I am raising questions (sorry if they are stupid, I am quite a newbie…).

What I did so far:
- With CRU, main page, I have deleted all detailed resolutions and standard resolutions, and created an extension block CTA-861 to which I added data blocks HDMI, HDMI 2.0, colorimetry, video capability, HDR static metadata according to https://www.avsforum.com/threads/nvidia-custom-resolutions.3127652/

- With CRU, I then added detailed resolutions within the extension block for 3840x2160 as per above, using the “automatic HDTV” as a start and then going “manual”.

Question 1: So far, is it correct what I did please?

Now I am trying to follow your guide to optimize the detailed resolutions above mentioned. So, starting with the 3840x2160 @23(.976):

- In PCC: input 3840 x 2160 @ 24 / 1.001, 6 decimals, rest is default. It gives me 3960 x 2184 with pixel clock 207.36.

- In CRU, under extension block, and its detailed resolution 3840x2160@23p, I have entered the above as follows: 3960 and 2184 under “total horizontal” and “total vertical” (keeping active vertical and active horizontal unchanged at 3840 and 2160 respectively) and 207.36 under “Pixel clock”. Then restarted the driver.

- Then I read a 23.976 video with MPC-BE / MadVR and after 30 min it says “1 repeat frame every 4.38 minutes”.

- I then calculated the new frequency to aim for:
4.38 min = 4.38 x 60 = 262.8 sec, then 1 / (23.976 x 262.8) = 0.0001587076676 and then (1 – 0. 0001587076676) x 23.976 = 23.97219482 Mhz

- Then in PCC I input 3840 x 2160 and 23.97219482, 6 decimals. It gives: 4016 x 2192 for a pixel clock of 211.028957 MHz.

- Back to CRU under extension block, and its detailed resolution 3840x2160@23p, I have entered the above as follows: 4016 and 2192 under “total horizontal” and “total vertical” (keeping active vertical and active horizontal unchanged at 3840 and 2160 respectively) and 211.028957 under “Pixel clock”. Then restarted the driver.

Question 2: is this correct so far?

- Play again a 23.976 video, it gives 1 frame repeat every 4.40 min or 264 sec, not much of an improvement but now starts the iteration … and the tricky part for me as I might take the wrong numbers:

Calculating again the new frequency to target:
1/ (23.97219482 x 264) = 0.0001580113467

Question 3: on the above am I correct taking the previously calculated frequency and not 23.976?

And then 1 - 0.0001580113467 gives 0.9998419887, and to get to the new frequency I do: 23.97219482 x 0.9998419887 = 23.96840694

Question 4: am I correct here using 23.97219482 and not 23.976?

Then inputing this in PCC 4016 x 2192 and 23.97219482 then iterate with CRU etc.?

Question 5: in PCC, I have to input 4016 x 2192 (and NOT 3840 x 2160) together with 23.97219482 ?


As you see I am a bit lost on which number(s) should be “iterated” or not. Any clarification is more than welcome. The guide without pictures is quite hard to follow for a newbie…
Many thanks to you all.