DVD Rebuilder Question

[soneca]

manolito, the executable is not being recognized as encoder.

[08:28:53] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.28.2
- AVISYNTH 2.6.0.6
- QuEnc UNKNOWN encoder selected.


- Failed to create M2V: V01000000001001
- The encoder doesn't appear functional.
- Aborting...
Aborted.

[manolito]

Could it be that your browser displayed a previous link from its cache? The 2 exe files must have a creation date of about 04/29/04:49 or 03:09.
Here's the current link again:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro


Other possible reasons could be that the original HCenc executable is not present in the same folder as the wrapper. And the file name "HCBatch.exe" will NOT work, it has to be "HCenc_xxx.exe" or "HCenc.exe".

Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

Strange, already checked everything and has nothing wrong.
Did you ever test with the DVD-RB Pro?

[manolito]

Strange, already checked everything and has nothing wrong.
Did you ever test with the DVD-RB Pro?

Yes, of course, many times...
WinXP SP3
Will test on Win7 64bit later tonight.


P.S.
The exe files are compiled batch fles. Make sure that your virus scanner doesn't block them silently.

[soneca]

Verified, the antivirus(Nod32) is not blocking the process.
Ok, waiting for the test with the W7 64bit which is what I use.

[manolito]

Alright, found it... :eek:
Turns out it has nothing to do with the operating system, it's the number of CPU cores.

The Pro version has the option "Multiple Encoder Processes" turned on by default. To make my wrapper tool work correctly this option must be deactivated.


Technical:
QuEnc is not multithreaded, so jdobbs used a workaround for QuEnc which creates a couple of separate physical encoders in different folders. My plugin has no way to detect these encoders, so it will crash on a computer with a multi-core CPU.

Turning this option off has no negative influence on HCenc. HC's SMP option is active by default, it will use all available CPU cores even if this DVD-Rebuilder option is deactivated.


Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

manolito, thank you!
Now it is working properly! ;)
I'll make some comparisons, especially with low bitrates.

[mparade]

Is there any specific HC setting against blocking on dark flat areas/
during colour transitions? However high the bitrate, the blocking remains in the output (I have used 6 types of matrix so far at around CQ=7 each). The output has nearly the same bitrate as the source by now with a lot of blocking, the source lacks of any blocking. The player is the same for both: PowerDVD 15. Blocking is very visible in the reencode.

[Sharc]

@mparade
Did you try with Redistribution? Bitrate for that scene may become even higher than the original.

You may also check rebuilder.ini for following settings under [Options] (some of these can be tweaked via DVD-RB's Settings menu):
Redist_Percent=15
REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1
REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=0.55
Q_sample_percentage=1.0
HC_CQ_BFACTOR=1.4
HC_CQ_PFACTOR=1.05
HC_AQ=2
HC_Quality=3
HC_VBR_Bias=20
HC_LUMGAIN=2
Redistribute=1
HC_FOR_REDIST=1

[mparade]

@mparade
Did you try with Redistribution? Bitrate for that scene may become even higher than the original.

You may also check rebuilder.ini for following settings under [Options] (some of these can be tweaked via DVD-RB's Settings menu):
Redist_Percent=15
REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1
REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=0.55
Q_sample_percentage=1.0
HC_CQ_BFACTOR=1.4
HC_CQ_PFACTOR=1.05
HC_AQ=2
HC_Quality=3
HC_VBR_Bias=20
HC_LUMGAIN=2
Redistribute=1
HC_FOR_REDIST=1

Thanks. I try to find out what combination solve my pixelation problem (I used redistribution from the menu but did not tweak the defaults).

[Sharc]

Thanks. I try to find out what combination solve my pixelation problem (I used redistribution from the menu but did not tweak the defaults).
You could also try to set the bitrate for that segment manually to a high value using the Video Segment Viewer/Editor or RB-Opt.

[mparade]

You could also try to set the bitrate for that segment manually to a high value using the Video Segment Viewer/Editor or RB-Opt.

I had to give up my work with HC encoder. Perhaps I am too noob to find the correct settings to avoid blocking in some difficult scenes. I changed to CCE 2.67.0.27 and the problems are gone. The results meets my quality requirements now without wasting my time to find the correct settings in HC.

[Sharc]

Well, there exist conditions where HC has its limitations compared to the 1000.- USD CCE ... ;)

[manolito]

@ mparade

May I ask which version of HCenc you have been using?
In my experience the latest v 0.28 has a couple of improvements when it comes to blocking on dark/flat areas. For me increasing the values for LUMGAIN, AQ and MINBRFAC always took care of such problems.

Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

@ mparade

May I ask which version of HCenc you have been using?
In my experience the latest v 0.28 has a couple of improvements when it comes to blocking on dark/flat areas. For me increasing the values for LUMGAIN, AQ and MINBRFAC always took care of such problems.

Cheers
manolito

I used your plugin and instructions (so, the newest that can be downloaded from the site of the author). :)
Anyway, I haven't checked MINBRFAC parameter yet. I think the problem is that the source is "difficult" to encode properly: lot of flat areas with color transitions etc.

[mparade]

I have just realized that DVD-RB is not using CCE in multiprocess mode. Is it possible that the software only works with HC in multiprocess mode? I have double-checked my ini file as well and the multi-process parameter is set correctly (12 is used by the menu which is the amount of my physical cores multiplied by 2). HC encoder is working in multi-process mode correctly (using all the 12 threads), but CCE does not. Without multiprocess mode (mainly if some effective filters are also used) the encoding takes forever...
I cannot use SetMTMode() without multiprocessing, either, because the proper rows should be inserted in the proper place in the script file and that is not allowed by the program.

Please help.

[jdobbs]

What is your processor utilization?

[mparade]

What is your processor utilization?

Very minimal: between 10-15%, so I am pretty sure only 1 thread is working with CCE. (with HC when multiprocess was in use it was between 65-70% and 12pcs of HC windows was opened by DVD-RB..now I am running DVD-RB with CCE and BD-RB with x264 parallel to raise up the utilization to ~100%).

[jdobbs]

If I remember correctly, CCE doesn't allow more than one instance to execute at a time. So DVD-RB can't run more than that.

[mparade]

@ mparade

May I ask which version of HCenc you have been using?
In my experience the latest v 0.28 has a couple of improvements when it comes to blocking on dark/flat areas. For me increasing the values for LUMGAIN, AQ and MINBRFAC always took care of such problems.

Cheers
manolito

Hello Manolito,

I try to find a solution to my "pixelation" problem using your plugin (CCE is not an acceptable way for me because if I cannot run multiple instances of the encoder I will be a grand-grandfather in some cases before the encoder finishes it's job :). You told me try to raise up parameter *MINBRFAC as well to avoid "pixelation". According to the HC manual it has effect only on 2 pass encoding, but your script is working only in 1-pass, right? If I use this parameter in your HC.ini file while doing a 1-pass encode, will the HC encoder consider this parameter or not? In the opened HC window I do not see if this parameter is considered by the encoder.

Thanks for your help in advance.

[manolito]

Of course my plugin supports 2-pass encodes.
After installing the plugin set the QuEnc parameters to 2-pass, and HCenc will do a 2-pass encode.

Make sure to use the current version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

And also do not forget to deactivate the "multiple encoder processes" in DVD-RB. See this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Of course my plugin supports 2-pass encodes.
After installing the plugin set the QuEnc parameters to 2-pass, and HCenc will do a 2-pass encode.

Make sure to use the current version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

And also do not forget to deactivate the "multiple encoder processes" in DVD-RB. See this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Cheers
manolito

Thank you very much! I have just started my deep tests on difficult sources with your new plugin...let you know the results asap!

:thanks:

[mparade]

Is it possible in DVD-RB to encode an 5.1 track to 2.0 stereo like in BD-RB? 5.1 is to much for me using my stereo headphones. :)

[jdobbs]

Sorry, but no. DVD-RB keeps original audio intact.

[mparade]

Sorry, but no. DVD-RB keeps original audio intact.

It doesn't change the fact that this is the best DVD encoder
software in the world! :thanks:

[mparade]

Of course my plugin supports 2-pass encodes.
After installing the plugin set the QuEnc parameters to 2-pass, and HCenc will do a 2-pass encode.

Make sure to use the current version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

And also do not forget to deactivate the "multiple encoder processes" in DVD-RB. See this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Cheers
manolito

Hello manolito,

Is there any command line parameter in your plugin that is forced to a specific value (which can overwrite my specific command line parameter)?

I have just found that in the HC window some setting has a NA status inspite of giving an exact value for those in the HC.ini. Are you forcing some parameter in the command line? If so, which ones?

Thanks for your great tool.

[manolito]

HCenc flags parameters as N/A if they are not applicable for the encoding mode. Example:
You can set a value for BIAS in the HC.INI file. But if you select 1-pass VBR as your encoding mode, this value for BIAS will be ignored. You will see N/A in the GUI.

My wrapper tool simply tries to translate QuEnc command line parameters to HCenc compatible parameters. They are pretty similar, so this is an easy task. Whenever HC does not recognize a parameter, it simply ignores it without an error message which makes it even easier for me. And for HCenc a command line parameter always takes precedence over a command in HC.INI.

The source batch file for HC_RB.exe is this one:

@ECHO Off
SET HC_DRIVE=%~d0
SET HC_PATH=%~p0
SET CMDLINE=

%HC_DRIVE%
CD "%HC_PATH%"
IF NOT EXIST HCenc.exe COPY /b HCenc*.exe HCenc.exe >NUL

:assemble
IF !%1==! GOTO doit
IF %1==-b GOTO bitrate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM For the "AutoInterlaced" Mode activate the follwing command. For the regular interlaced/progressive mode activate the two commands below.

REM IF NOT %1==-interlaced IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1

IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
IF %1==-nointerlaced SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -progressive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF %1==-dc SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -dc_prec
IF %1==-cgop SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -closedgops
IF %1==-hq SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -profile best
IF %1==-1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -1pass
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:bitrate
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SHIFT
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SET /A bitrate=%1
IF %bitrate% LSS 200 SET cq=1
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:doit
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -b = -cq_maxbitrate %
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -1pass= %
HCenc.exe%CMDLINE%

It is easy to read, so you can see for yourself what the plugin does....


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

HCenc flags parameters as N/A if they are not applicable for the encoding mode. Example:
You can set a value for BIAS in the HC.INI file. But if you select 1-pass VBR as your encoding mode, this value for BIAS will be ignored. You will see N/A in the GUI.

My wrapper tool simply tries to translate QuEnc command line parameters to HCenc compatible parameters. They are pretty similar, so this is an easy task. Whenever HC does not recognize a parameter, it simply ignores it without an error message which makes it even easier for me. And for HCenc a command line parameter always takes precedence over a command in HC.INI.

The source batch file for HC_RB.exe is this one:

@ECHO Off
SET HC_DRIVE=%~d0
SET HC_PATH=%~p0
SET CMDLINE=

%HC_DRIVE%
CD "%HC_PATH%"
IF NOT EXIST HCenc.exe COPY /b HCenc*.exe HCenc.exe >NUL

:assemble
IF !%1==! GOTO doit
IF %1==-b GOTO bitrate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM For the "AutoInterlaced" Mode activate the follwing command. For the regular interlaced/progressive mode activate the two commands below.

REM IF NOT %1==-interlaced IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1

IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
IF %1==-nointerlaced SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -progressive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF %1==-dc SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -dc_prec
IF %1==-cgop SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -closedgops
IF %1==-hq SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -profile best
IF %1==-1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -1pass
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:bitrate
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SHIFT
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SET /A bitrate=%1
IF %bitrate% LSS 200 SET cq=1
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:doit
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -b = -cq_maxbitrate %
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -1pass= %
HCenc.exe%CMDLINE%

It is easy to read, so you can see for yourself what the plugin does....


Cheers
manolito

Thanks for your fast reply! I will check it. It is strange for me that using an OPV method none of the CQ parameters are applicable according to the HC GUI. But, it is quite probably, the reason is that I do not know something correctly.

[manolito]

It is strange for me that using an OPV method none of the CQ parameters are applicable according to the HC GUI. But, it is quite probably, the reason is that I do not know something correctly.

Alright, time for some technical explanations... :devil:

There are many different approaches for 1-pass VBR encodes. One of them is the CQ (Constant Quantizer) method which uses sample runs to determine the compressibility of the source. This method is used by DVD-Rebuilder. Constant Quantizer is NOT equal to Constant Quality. Also for DVD compliant output the quantizer must be increased if the DVD max bitrate is reached (HCenc does this automatically by using the CQ_MAXBITRATE parameter).

HCenc introduced its own 1-pass VBR method a little later. This method does NOT use CQ encoding. You can see it more like a "poor man's 2-pass VBR" method. It works like this:

There is only one sample pass (the CQ method needs several sample passes). This sample pass consists of two parts. In the first part a "base quantizer" is determined. In the second part a compression curve of the source is established. Only a certain percentage of the source is scanned for this, then the resulting compression curve gets interpolated and smoothed. Much like the first pass of a 2-pass encode, but much faster (and of course less precise). The second pass takes this compression curve to distribute the bitrate and reach the desired size.

IMO this 1-pass VBR method is far superior to the CQ based method. But of course there will be users who might disagree... And of course if you select HCenc's integrated 1-pass VBR method through my wrapper, the CQ parameters will not get used.

I hope it's a little clearer now...:cool:


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Alright, time for some technical explanations... :devil:

There are many different approaches for 1-pass VBR encodes. One of them is the CQ (Constant Quantizer) method which uses sample runs to determine the compressibility of the source. This method is used by DVD-Rebuilder. Constant Quantizer is NOT equal to Constant Quality. Also for DVD compliant output the quantizer must be increased if the DVD max bitrate is reached (HCenc does this automatically by using the CQ_MAXBITRATE parameter).

HCenc introduced its own 1-pass VBR method a little later. This method does NOT use CQ encoding. You can see it more like a "poor man's 2-pass VBR" method. It works like this:

There is only one sample pass (the CQ method needs several sample passes). This sample pass consists of two parts. In the first part a "base quantizer" is determined. In the second part a compression curve of the source is established. Only a certain percentage of the source is scanned for this, then the resulting compression curve gets interpolated and smoothed. Much like the first pass of a 2-pass encode, but much faster (and of course less precise). The second pass takes this compression curve to distribute the bitrate and reach the desired size.

IMO this 1-pass VBR method is far superior to the CQ based method. But of course there will be users who might disagree... And of course if you select HCenc's integrated 1-pass VBR method through my wrapper, the CQ parameters will not get used.

I hope it's a little clearer now...:cool:


Cheers
manolito

Thank you very much. Now it is OK. I have to keep doing my tests with your wrapper because until now I got better results (much less blocking in dark flat areas) with the CQ method using Manono's 10 best Matrix with a reasonable Q parameter. I will let you know the results asap. Anyway, auto-interlaced feature is an excellent new feature!

[mparade]

Alright, time for some technical explanations... :devil:

There are many different approaches for 1-pass VBR encodes. One of them is the CQ (Constant Quantizer) method which uses sample runs to determine the compressibility of the source. This method is used by DVD-Rebuilder. Constant Quantizer is NOT equal to Constant Quality. Also for DVD compliant output the quantizer must be increased if the DVD max bitrate is reached (HCenc does this automatically by using the CQ_MAXBITRATE parameter).

HCenc introduced its own 1-pass VBR method a little later. This method does NOT use CQ encoding. You can see it more like a "poor man's 2-pass VBR" method. It works like this:

There is only one sample pass (the CQ method needs several sample passes). This sample pass consists of two parts. In the first part a "base quantizer" is determined. In the second part a compression curve of the source is established. Only a certain percentage of the source is scanned for this, then the resulting compression curve gets interpolated and smoothed. Much like the first pass of a 2-pass encode, but much faster (and of course less precise). The second pass takes this compression curve to distribute the bitrate and reach the desired size.

IMO this 1-pass VBR method is far superior to the CQ based method. But of course there will be users who might disagree... And of course if you select HCenc's integrated 1-pass VBR method through my wrapper, the CQ parameters will not get used.

I hope it's a little clearer now...:cool:


Cheers
manolito

Hello manolito,

Could you please send a link to your last plugin? I would like to resume my DVD projects with that one and DVD-RB.

Thank you very much in advance!

[manolito]

Hi mparade,

this is pretty old stuff now, most folks have abandoned DVD conversions in favor of AVC or even HEVC...

I have not updated the plugin since 2009, but it still works fine. Get it here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dj6kzj


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Hi mparade,

this is pretty old stuff now, most folks have abandoned DVD conversions in favor of AVC or even HEVC...

I have not updated the plugin since 2009, but it still works fine. Get it here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dj6kzj


Cheers
manolito

Hi manolito,

First of all, thank you very much!

I can not abandon these kind of conversions because I want to keep the original menus. (Or is there somewhere out an application that can convert DVDs directly to BD format? That would be the best way to follow with/without reencoding :))

Anyway, in this thread (even in last May) you made some modification to your wrapper tool. Am I correct?

[Sharc]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

[mparade]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

Thank you. First of all, I would like to see what is the maximum quality (and if it is acceptable for me) I can achieve with a difficult source by modifying the encoding parameters in HCenc and DVD-RB using a BD-5 media. I would like to keep the original DVD menus as well. I prefer Quick-Play menus on a BD-25 media only when dealing with short series like Tom&Jerry cartoon. And I really love that feature in that case (the only feature I am currently missing from a Quick-Play menu is to be able to select my language as default or at least after entering the menu it will not set back to english. Anyway, it is required by my nephews).

[manolito]

Anyway, in this thread (even in last May) you made some modification to your wrapper tool. Am I correct?

You are right, I totally forgot about this... :o
(I added the option to disable HCenc's autointerlaced mode, and you can enter a quantizer instead of the bitrate which will force a CQ encoding).

I have mainly switched to AVC conversions, but I do miss the nice DVD menus. FWIW Mr. Thuering (the author of DVDStyler) has plans to integrate the HD-DVD format in his software. Have a look at this thread:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dvdstyler/discussion/318795/thread/fbc486bd/

Sounds interesting...

Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

@jdobbs

I cannot install the keyfile for DVD-RB Pro. It tells "No connection could be established". Is it a problem on your end and I need to wait until it is solved?

[jdobbs]

@jdobbs

I cannot install the keyfile for DVD-RB Pro. It tells "No connection could be established". Is it a problem on your end and I need to wait until it is solved?My service provider experienced an outage. It's fixed.

[mparade]

You are right, I totally forgot about this... :o
(I added the option to disable HCenc's autointerlaced mode, and you can enter a quantizer instead of the bitrate which will force a CQ encoding).

I have mainly switched to AVC conversions, but I do miss the nice DVD menus. FWIW Mr. Thuering (the author of DVDStyler) has plans to integrate the HD-DVD format in his software. Have a look at this thread:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dvdstyler/discussion/318795/thread/fbc486bd/

Sounds interesting...

Cheers
manolito

Hi manolito,

With your wrapper tool only 1 pc of "general" matrix can be used for the complete disc through the HC.ini, right?
It would be great if I could use more than one depending on the calculated CQ value estimated by DVD-RB.

Can you do something/Did I miss something?

Thank you in advance for any help.

[manolito]

No, there is nothing I can do about it in my wrapper tool...

In DVD-RB the HCenc support is based on writing a new HC.INI by DVD-RB. The user has no control over the content of this INI as DVD-RB writes it on-the-fly. Furthermore the latest DVD-RB version is from a time when HCenc itself did not have a 1-pass VBR mode by itself, so the DVD-RB 1-pass mode relies on sample runs to estimate the needed CQ value.

My plugin works completely differently. It does not care about a HC.INI written on-the-fly by DVD-RB, it uses a static HC.INI in the HCenc folder, and only the user himself is responsible for the content of this INI file.

For 1-pass VBR mode the plugin uses the newer built-in method of HCenc which is far superior to the DVD-RB method which is based on Constant Quant encoding. HC itself uses adaptive quant matrices (the AQ parameter), the desired matrix must be specified in HC.INI, any matrices introduced by DVD-RB will be ignored.

To be absolutely clear, to use my plugin you need to specify "QuEnc" as your encoder in the DVD-RB setup, not HCenc. Just point the encoder location to HC_RB.exe (or HC_RB_auto-interlaced.exe) instead of QuEnc.exe.


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

No, there is nothing I can do about it in my wrapper tool...

In DVD-RB the HCenc support is based on writing a new HC.INI by DVD-RB. The user has no control over the content of this INI as DVD-RB writes it on-the-fly. Furthermore the latest DVD-RB version is from a time when HCenc itself did not have a 1-pass VBR mode by itself, so the DVD-RB 1-pass mode relies on sample runs to estimate the needed CQ value.

My plugin works completely differently. It does not care about a HC.INI written on-the-fly by DVD-RB, it uses a static HC.INI in the HCenc folder, and only the user himself is responsible for the content of this INI file.

For 1-pass VBR mode the plugin uses the newer built-in method of HCenc which is far superior to the DVD-RB method which is based on Constant Quant encoding. HC itself uses adaptive quant matrices (the AQ parameter), the desired matrix must be specified in HC.INI, any matrices introduced by DVD-RB will be ignored.

To be absolutely clear, to use my plugin you need to specify "QuEnc" as your encoder in the DVD-RB setup, not HCenc. Just point the encoder location to HC_RB.exe (or HC_RB_auto-interlaced.exe) instead of QuEnc.exe.


Cheers
manolito

Thanks for the explanation and for the great plugin. I am going to test it shortly and will give you a feedback on the results.

[mparade]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

Hello Sharc,

I am still testing an old CCE and the last HCEnc version.
The visual artifacts remained similar (however I am still testing the parameters (in HCEnc) if I can reduce them somehow to a degree which is acceptable already).
In HCEnc it seems I cannot set a minimum bitrate for the encoder, just an average. And from this average it seems the encoder will calculate a minimum.

Anyway, there are some unwanted materials on my original DVD that I want to remove, but DVD-RB does not include them in the VTS list, even though I set the limit to the lowest (0). How can I remove those unwanted stuff? Using an other app like vobblanker (in BD-RB I do not need an other app for this, those materials are always located in the stream tab)?

Thank you in advance.

[marco421]

yesterday I had to completely re-install windows 10 due to a Microsoft update glitch.
anyway, i'm trying to re-install bd-rb v50.23 which worked fine before everything went to hell.
now, after downloading a new version of v50.23 and extracting all the files, itry to run mscomcntl as administrator and get an error msg that says mscomcntl.ocx failed to load and can't be found. well, that's nonsense as i'm staring right at the file in the same folder with the other extracted files.
what do I have to do to correct this situation and get back to using bd-rb?

[Ch3vr0n]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=143716

step 3.1

[Sharc]

Hello Sharc,

I am still testing an old CCE and the last HCEnc version.
The visual artifacts remained similar (however I am still testing the parameters (in HCEnc) if I can reduce them somehow to a degree which is acceptable already).
In HCEnc it seems I cannot set a minimum bitrate for the encoder, just an average. And from this average it seems the encoder will calculate a minimum.

Anyway, there are some unwanted materials on my original DVD that I want to remove, but DVD-RB does not include them in the VTS list, even though I set the limit to the lowest (0). How can I remove those unwanted stuff? Using an other app like vobblanker (in BD-RB I do not need an other app for this, those materials are always located in the stream tab)?

Thank you in advance.
It is a long time since I have been using DVD-RB actively, but as far as I remember it was not possible to skip/edit certain material which was included in the VTS_01_0.vob for example. For full edit I relied on vobblanker which provided all required functionality.
Also, to reduce the size of bloated menus a utility called MenuShrink (I think) was very useful, but similar can also be done with vobblanker.

HCEnc low bitrate limit:
In the offical DVD-RB release offering REDISTRIBUTION you can set REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=x.x in the .ini which limits the bitrate reduction. I had to set it to 0.55 or 0.6 for certain discs to reduce blocking artefacts in dark scenes.
Remember that redistribution sets a new average bitrate on a per cell (chapter) basis from where the encoder will dynamically adjust the actual bitrate depending on the complexity of the scene.
See also the Rebuilder.txt:
October 7th, 2007 (v1.26.5)
CHANGES MADE TO PRO VERSION
- Added a REDISTRIBUTION threshold test that limits the
amount of low-side deviation allowed in the calculation of
redistribution. The default value of .5 limits a bitrate
reduction (in redistribution) to half what would have been
given in a standard DVD-RB encode. This dramatically
reduces the likelihood of getting values that are too low
in dark scenes. The threshold can be adjusted via a
hidden setting in the OPTIONS area of REBUILDER.INI. The
value (REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=) must fall in the range of
0 to 1. Any other value results in the default of .5
- Added a "hidden" setting called "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q". If
set to 1 (REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1) in the "[Options]" area of
REBUILDER.INI, a set of prediction passes are run on the
main-movie VTS (largest) to determine a Final_Q value
that is used for REDISTRIBUTION rather than the standard
Base_Q. This will add a little time to the PREPARE phase
and some reports have been made of improved quality based
upon subjective analysis.

I can really not comment on manolito's plugin and HCEnc's 1-pass VBR mode because these were introduced later and I have never tried it.

[mparade]

It is a long time since I have been using DVD-RB actively, but as far as I remember it was not possible to skip/edit certain material which was included in the VTS_01_0.vob for example. For full edit I relied on vobblanker which provided all required functionality.
Also, to reduce the size of bloated menus a utility called MenuShrink (I think) was very useful, but similar can also be done with vobblanker.

HCEnc low bitrate limit:
In the offical DVD-RB release offering REDISTRIBUTION you can set REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=x.x in the .ini which limits the bitrate reduction. I had to set it to 0.55 or 0.6 for certain discs to reduce blocking artefacts in dark scenes.
Remember that redistribution sets a new average bitrate on a per cell (chapter) basis from where the encoder will dynamically adjust the actual bitrate depending on the complexity of the scene.
See also the Rebuilder.txt:


I can really not comment on manolito's plugin and HCEnc's 1-pass VBR mode because these were introduced later and I have never tried it.

Nice! Thank you for the info. It was very useful for me. I have now enough information to start my DVD projects burning them on DVD-5 media. I don't think I will ever want to burn them on DVD-9. Even though, I haven't finished with my tests yet, but I am now very close to an acceptable level of quality with very difficult low bitrate sources.

[manolito]

IMO for low bitrate sources (and you do not want to convert for DVD-9) your best bet is to make some room. Do you really need the complete original menus, do you need all the extras?

I have long decided that I have no use for all the fancy original menus. I create my own very basic menus using AVStoDVD or DVDStyler. I also convert 6-ch audio to stereo. To get an excellent quality conversion I never go below 4500 kbps (maybe even 4000 kbps sometimes). Lower bitrates will always compromise quality in some way, at least for regular movies (I'm not talking about talking heads...)

The bitrate distribution thing is a peculiarity of DVD-RB, all other DVD encoders do this unconditionally. DVD-RB does its conversion on a cell-by-cell basis, assuming that the original bitrate of a cell was chosen for a reason. For larger compression factors this might not give good results, distributing the bitrate over the whole movie often gives better results.

And if you really cannot avoid bitrates around 3500 kbps or lower, here are a couple of hints:

1. Use a low bitrate matrix (like the manono matrices) which take away available bits from the high detail areas and give them to the dark and flat areas.

2. In HCenc play with the Lumgain and the AQ parameters.

3. Try to use FFmpeg with the extreme HQ 2-pass parameters. They are optimized for bitrates around 3500 kbps and below, they are now integrated in DVDStyler. For AVStoDVD and DVD-RB you have to use my FFmpeg_VBR plugins.

4. Check out Procoder. For DVD-RB there is a plugin by Robot1 which supports Procoder. For low bitrates Procoder has the philosophy to soften the result a little, but to not introduce blocking artifacts. I think the results are very pleasing to watch, but of course some folks will prefer a sharper encode. Matter of taste...


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

IMO for low bitrate sources (and you do not want to convert for DVD-9) your best bet is to make some room. Do you really need the complete original menus, do you need all the extras?

I have long decided that I have no use for all the fancy original menus. I create my own very basic menus using AVStoDVD or DVDStyler. I also convert 6-ch audio to stereo. To get an excellent quality conversion I never go below 4500 kbps (maybe even 4000 kbps sometimes). Lower bitrates will always compromise quality in some way, at least for regular movies (I'm not talking about talking heads...)

The bitrate distribution thing is a peculiarity of DVD-RB, all other DVD encoders do this unconditionally. DVD-RB does its conversion on a cell-by-cell basis, assuming that the original bitrate of a cell was chosen for a reason. For larger compression factors this might not give good results, distributing the bitrate over the whole movie often gives better results.

And if you really cannot avoid bitrates around 3500 kbps or lower, here are a couple of hints:

1. Use a low bitrate matrix (like the manono matrices) which take away available bits from the high detail areas and give them to the dark and flat areas.

2. In HCenc play with the Lumgain and the AQ parameters.

3. Try to use FFmpeg with the extreme HQ 2-pass parameters. They are optimized for bitrates around 3500 kbps and below, they are now integrated in DVDStyler. For AVStoDVD and DVD-RB you have to use my FFmpeg_VBR plugins.

4. Check out Procoder. For DVD-RB there is a plugin by Robot1 which supports Procoder. For low bitrates Procoder has the philosophy to soften the result a little, but to not introduce blocking artifacts. I think the results are very pleasing to watch, but of course some folks will prefer a sharper encode. Matter of taste...


Cheers
manolito

:thanks:

It seems I will choose specific matrices and CCE.
I had no "success" with HCenc in dark featureless scenes. A lot of people prefer CCE to Procoder. I like to keep the fancy original menus and the extras as well as (like with my BD-s) to throw out all unwanted audio tracks and materials (like disturbing warnings etc.) using vobblanker. :)
Thank you very much again for your help, time and efforts!

[mparade]

IMO for low bitrate sources (and you do not want to convert for DVD-9) your best bet is to make some room. Do you really need the complete original menus, do you need all the extras?

I have long decided that I have no use for all the fancy original menus. I create my own very basic menus using AVStoDVD or DVDStyler. I also convert 6-ch audio to stereo. To get an excellent quality conversion I never go below 4500 kbps (maybe even 4000 kbps sometimes). Lower bitrates will always compromise quality in some way, at least for regular movies (I'm not talking about talking heads...)

The bitrate distribution thing is a peculiarity of DVD-RB, all other DVD encoders do this unconditionally. DVD-RB does its conversion on a cell-by-cell basis, assuming that the original bitrate of a cell was chosen for a reason. For larger compression factors this might not give good results, distributing the bitrate over the whole movie often gives better results.

And if you really cannot avoid bitrates around 3500 kbps or lower, here are a couple of hints:

1. Use a low bitrate matrix (like the manono matrices) which take away available bits from the high detail areas and give them to the dark and flat areas.

2. In HCenc play with the Lumgain and the AQ parameters.

3. Try to use FFmpeg with the extreme HQ 2-pass parameters. They are optimized for bitrates around 3500 kbps and below, they are now integrated in DVDStyler. For AVStoDVD and DVD-RB you have to use my FFmpeg_VBR plugins.

4. Check out Procoder. For DVD-RB there is a plugin by Robot1 which supports Procoder. For low bitrates Procoder has the philosophy to soften the result a little, but to not introduce blocking artifacts. I think the results are very pleasing to watch, but of course some folks will prefer a sharper encode. Matter of taste...


Cheers
manolito

Could you please send me a link to your latest "FFmpeg_VBR plugins"? I would give them a try in DVD-RB and compare the result to the one I got from CCE.

Thank you in advance.

[mparade]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

As far as I remember from the past, either I imported progressive material or interlaced into BD-RB, BD-RB marked both of them as interlaced (due to the requirement of the BD standard) and sent both to the encoder as if they were both interlaced (Having set the "DEINTERLACER_TYPE=4" and both were sent as progressive). This means that the progressive video will be processed as interlaced or reversed, right?

If I convert a DVD-9 in mpeg2 format and DVD structure to a DVD-5 in AVC format and BD structure will my BD player able to play it? I have read some compatibilty issues (while some player will play some will not) regarding this kind of conversion.

Thanks for the help in advance.