DVD Rebuilder Question

[SkilledAbbot]

Hello all.

I haven't used DVD-RB in 10 years and after reinstalling I ran into a blip. JDobbs emailed me back on the same day. Thank you so much for that!

My question:
It's been 10 years since Ive used the product so I checked the site to see if there were any updates. There aren't.

So I am wondering should I use the included tools as is, or download newer versions? For example, HCencoder?

I only ask because my PC is much faster than the single core of days past...and I'd imagine the newer tools have had speed and performance enhancements.

[thescrapyard]

You can use the latest 0.28 of HCEnc, I use it with no issues but find turning off multiple encodes makes it a more stable and rarely causes any issues with HCEnc. Maybe the scripts I use causes the issues and can't cope with multiple encodes of different streams or parts of the same project. Just rename HCEnc.exe to HCBatch.exe and copy it to where the encoders are and overwrite the original file when asked with HCEnc 0.28

I'm now running an Intel i7 4790k with slight overclocking and 8 cores, compared to my original quad core intel from about 6 years ago its now much faster encodes. Coupled with faster hard drives makes for speedy encodes. I use slow filters vai avisynth that were struggling to manage 6-8fps but my currents set-up gives me around 25-30fps if using the slow noise filters but easily gets 150fps to 200fps with no filters. Quiet a difference to my original set-up when I first started using DVD-RB Pro

Its just a shame the DGDecode.dll can't be updated to the last versions with SSE code to squeeze a bit more out of the encode speeds, but the quality is still above anything else, thanks to HCEnc and AviSynth working with each other

[mparade]

Is Cinema Craft Encoder SP3 Retail compatible with DVD-RB Pro V1.28.2? I have found no other commercial MPEG-1&MPEG-2 encoder one can buy nowadays...:mad:

[jdobbs]

No it's not. I got tired of having to start over every time they came out with a new version. I'd already done it 3 times as they changed there settings files.

But, IMHO, HC Encoder is every bit as good, it's free, and it's included with DVD-RB.

[mparade]

No it's not. I got tired of having to start over every time they came out with a new version. I'd already done it 3 times as they changed there settings files.

But, IMHO, HC Encoder is every bit as good, it's free, and it's included with DVD-RB.

Nice. Do you recommend to update it in your package?

[jdobbs]

Not really. While there is a newer version of HC -- the updates really don't apply to the way it is used with DVD-RB.

[mparade]

Not really. While there is a newer version of HC -- the updates really don't apply to the way it is used with DVD-RB.

I would like to control the TargetSize (sectors) by using the hidden setting TargetSectors=nnnnnn, but it seems DVD-RB ignores the parameter. I tried to find out from the help menu and Rebuilder.txt what I have missed out but without any success so far. Is it possible at all to use a unique TargetSize for my HC One Pass CQ VBR encodes? (I have a lot of 1-layer DVD and just tried to shrink them using the predicted CQ values and a unique TargetSector parameter, but it seems there is a limit in TargetSize under which the program does not let me go).

Your help would be appreciated.

[jdobbs]

Moved to this thread from FAQ.

[manolito]

Not really. While there is a newer version of HC -- the updates really don't apply to the way it is used with DVD-RB.

Allow me to disagree...

While some newer HCenc features like new color spaces, support for higher resolutions and other things really do not apply to DVD conversions, there are a lot of other things which have improved over the years and which do affect quality. Just download the latest version and have a look at the version history.

One particular thing in DVD-RB which is totally outdated is the use of a CQ 1-pass mode with prediction. For many years HCenc has its own far superior 1-pass VBR mode, and this mode should really get integrated into DVD-RB. I have done it for myself with a wrapper I wrote, but regular users are shut out from using this new feature.


Cheers
manolito

[rjd0309]

I would like to control the TargetSize (sectors) by using the hidden setting TargetSectors=nnnnnn, but it seems DVD-RB ignores the parameter.

The parameter works for me. I use it frequently.

Rebuilder.ini -

[Options]
#TargetSectors=500000

[mparade]

The parameter works for me. I use it frequently.

Rebuilder.ini -

[Options]
#TargetSectors=500000

Nice to hear! So the problem must be on my side. I try to find out which option can block this parameter.

Thanks for the info!

[mparade]

The parameter works for me. I use it frequently.

Rebuilder.ini -

[Options]
#TargetSectors=500000

Due to some reason, here DVD-RB stick to -- TargetSize (sectors):1*998*736 for analyzing VTS_01 for the optimal CQ factor. I am using TargetSectors=500000 in the .ini file, though. TargetSizeMode=0 couldn't be the reason? I have run out of ideas.

Any help would be appreciated.

[jdobbs]

You can't have the "#" at the front of it. That is the equivalent to commenting it out.

Look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=748168#post748168) for more information.

[soneca]

You can use the latest 0.28 of HCEnc, I use it with no issues but find turning off multiple encodes makes it a more stable and rarely causes any issues with HCEnc. Maybe the scripts I use causes the issues and can't cope with multiple encodes of different streams or parts of the same project. Just rename HCEnc.exe to HCBatch.exe and copy it to where the encoders are and overwrite the original file when asked with HCEnc 0.28

I'm now running an Intel i7 4790k with slight overclocking and 8 cores, compared to my original quad core intel from about 6 years ago its now much faster encodes. Coupled with faster hard drives makes for speedy encodes. I use slow filters vai avisynth that were struggling to manage 6-8fps but my currents set-up gives me around 25-30fps if using the slow noise filters but easily gets 150fps to 200fps with no filters. Quiet a difference to my original set-up when I first started using DVD-RB Pro

Its just a shame the DGDecode.dll can't be updated to the last versions with SSE code to squeeze a bit more out of the encode speeds, but the quality is still above anything else, thanks to HCEnc and AviSynth working with each other

You have problems using multiple encoders only with the latest version of HCenc or also with previous versions?
For years I use the 0.26 version with multiple encoders without problems.
I will test the version 0.28.

[soneca]

Allow me to disagree...

While some newer HCenc features like new color spaces, support for higher resolutions and other things really do not apply to DVD conversions, there are a lot of other things which have improved over the years and which do affect quality. Just download the latest version and have a look at the version history.

One particular thing in DVD-RB which is totally outdated is the use of a CQ 1-pass mode with prediction. For many years HCenc has its own far superior 1-pass VBR mode, and this mode should really get integrated into DVD-RB. I have done it for myself with a wrapper I wrote, but regular users are shut out from using this new feature.


Cheers
manolito

Hello manolito, could show some tips on how to implement the 1-pass VBR mode in DVD-Rebuilder Pro using HCenc 0.28?

[mparade]

You can't have the "#" at the front of it. That is the equivalent to commenting it out.

Look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=748168#post748168) for more information.

Thank you for your help. I am not using "#" at the front of it. I am using "TargetSectors=500000" as one row in the .ini file.

Please find as an attachement my rebuilder.ini file.

[manolito]

Hello manolito, could show some tips on how to implement the 1-pass VBR mode in DVD-Rebuilder Pro using HCenc 0.28?

Sure... ;)

The idea is to bypass Rebuilder's influence on creation of the HC INI file completely. This also means that the user needs to edit HC.ini himself to specify a Matrix or other special commands. Basically it is done by using the QuEnc interface of DVD-RB to call the HC encoder.

If you want to try it, do it like this:

Download and extract the latest HCenc to a folder of your choice. Only the root folder is needed. Rename HCenc_xxx.exe to HCenc.exe.

Download my wrapper tool here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

Extract all three files to the HCenc folder you just created.

Run DVD-Rebuilder. Under "Options -> Setup" select "Path to QuEnc" and point it to "HC_RB.exe" or "HC_RB_auto-interlaced.exe" in the HCenc folder. (The auto-interlaced version uses HCenc's auto-interlaced feature where HC determines if the source is interlaced or progressive)
For the Pro version you also must deactivate the option "Multiple Encoder Processes" under "Settings".


From now on to use HCenc you have to select QuEnc as your encoder. To use the new HCenc 1-pass VBR mode all you have to do is select "Single Pass Encode" under the QuEnc options. For other HC options like matrix selection you must edit the HC.ini file.


Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

Thank manolito!
It seems that everything is okay.
In this mode the bitrate redistribution works properly?

[09:50:02] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.28.2
- AVISYNTH 2.6.0.6
- QuEnc 0.28.0.2 encoder selected.
- Source: THE_BACON_BROTHERS_LIVE
- VTS_01: 2.775.583 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 165.749 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 72,0%
- Overall Bitrate : 4.852/3.882Kbs
- Space for Video : 3.275.706KB
- Analyzing VTS_01 for optimal CQ factor.
-- TargetSize (sectors):1.662.420
-- Sampling 1665 of 165749 frames.
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=3,7: 1.971.748
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=4,2: 1.769.717
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=4,4: 1.749.575
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=4,5: 1.659.123
- CQ Value selected: 4,5
- Redistributing Final_CQ: 4,5
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 4.926/2.919/3.882 Kbs
[09:59:15] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 9 minutes.
[09:59:15] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 16
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 17
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 18
[10:05:08] Phase II ENCODING completed in 6 minutes.
[10:05:08] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
- Reading/processing TMAP table...
- Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
- Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
- Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
- Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
- Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
- Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
- Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
- Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
- Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
- Rebuilding seg 9 VOBID 1 CELLID 10
- Rebuilding seg 10 VOBID 1 CELLID 11
- Rebuilding seg 11 VOBID 1 CELLID 12
- Rebuilding seg 12 VOBID 1 CELLID 13
- Rebuilding seg 13 VOBID 1 CELLID 14
- Rebuilding seg 14 VOBID 1 CELLID 15
- Rebuilding seg 15 VOBID 1 CELLID 16
- Rebuilding seg 16 VOBID 1 CELLID 17
- Rebuilding seg 17 VOBID 1 CELLID 18
- Rebuilding seg 18 VOBID 1 CELLID 19
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
- Updating TMAP table...
- Correcting VTS Sectors...
[10:09:37] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 4 minutes.

Done.
[10:09:37] PREPARE/ENCODE/REBUILD completed in 19 min.

[mparade]

Thank manolito!
It seems that everything is okay.
In this mode the bitrate redistribution works properly?

[09:50:02] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.28.2
- AVISYNTH 2.6.0.6
- QuEnc 0.28.0.2 encoder selected.
- Source: THE_BACON_BROTHERS_LIVE
- VTS_01: 2.775.583 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 165.749 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 72,0%
- Overall Bitrate : 4.852/3.882Kbs
- Space for Video : 3.275.706KB
- Analyzing VTS_01 for optimal CQ factor.
-- TargetSize (sectors):1.662.420
-- Sampling 1665 of 165749 frames.
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=3,7: 1.971.748
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=4,2: 1.769.717
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=4,4: 1.749.575
-- Predicted size (sectors) at CQ=4,5: 1.659.123
- CQ Value selected: 4,5
- Redistributing Final_CQ: 4,5
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 4.926/2.919/3.882 Kbs
[09:59:15] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 9 minutes.
[09:59:15] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 16
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 17
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 18
[10:05:08] Phase II ENCODING completed in 6 minutes.
[10:05:08] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
- Reading/processing TMAP table...
- Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
- Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
- Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
- Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
- Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
- Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
- Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
- Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
- Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
- Rebuilding seg 9 VOBID 1 CELLID 10
- Rebuilding seg 10 VOBID 1 CELLID 11
- Rebuilding seg 11 VOBID 1 CELLID 12
- Rebuilding seg 12 VOBID 1 CELLID 13
- Rebuilding seg 13 VOBID 1 CELLID 14
- Rebuilding seg 14 VOBID 1 CELLID 15
- Rebuilding seg 15 VOBID 1 CELLID 16
- Rebuilding seg 16 VOBID 1 CELLID 17
- Rebuilding seg 17 VOBID 1 CELLID 18
- Rebuilding seg 18 VOBID 1 CELLID 19
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
- Updating TMAP table...
- Correcting VTS Sectors...
[10:09:37] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 4 minutes.

Done.
[10:09:37] PREPARE/ENCODE/REBUILD completed in 19 min.

Sorry for keep asking the same question but how can you set -- TargetSize (sectors):1.662.420? Whatever "TargetSectors" parameter I am using in the ini file the program ignores it due to some for me unknown reason. The program always tells Reduction Level for DVD-5: 100,0%.

[Groucho2004]

Sorry for keep asking the same question but how can you set -- TargetSize (sectors):1.662.420? Whatever "TargetSectors" parameter I am using in the ini file the program ignores it due to some for me unknown reason. The program always tells Reduction Level for DVD-5: 100,0%.
Did you read the post that jdobbs linked to in post #13?

Edit: If you writing the number with thousand separators as above it might explain why it does not work for you.

[mparade]

Did you read the post that jdobbs linked to in post #13?

Edit: If you writing the number with thousand separators as above it might explain why it does not work for you.

Thanks for your answer. I am using exactly as I wrote in post #16, as it is written in the help file and in the link above which tells the same as the help file. Sorry for tiring people here with such nonsenses but I really do not understand what I am doing wrong.

[Groucho2004]

Thanks for your answer. I am using exactly as I wrote in post #16, as it is written in the help file and in the link above which tells the same as the help file. Sorry for tiring people here with such nonsenses but I really do not understand what I am doing wrong.
It could take a long time before your attachment is approved, can you post it somewhere else?

[manolito]

Thank manolito!
It seems that everything is okay.
In this mode the bitrate redistribution works properly?


No, you selected the wrong 1-pass mode in the QuEnc options. I do not have the Pro version of DVD-RB installed right now, but there must be another 1-pass option for QuEnc which does not use prediction. That's the one to choose.


Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

Hi manolito, i used the way down without prediction.
Is correct?

http://s20.postimg.org/6ggebd2x9/dvd_rebuilder.png

[soneca]

Sorry for keep asking the same question but how can you set -- TargetSize (sectors):1.662.420? Whatever "TargetSectors" parameter I am using in the ini file the program ignores it due to some for me unknown reason. The program always tells Reduction Level for DVD-5: 100,0%.

I have used the value 2247000 ((2247000 x 2048) x 1,015 = 4,670,883,840 = 4.3501GB) to try to fill the media but has not given effect ... the final size is always in the default DVD Rebuilder, between 4.32 and 4.33GB. :confused:

[mparade]

I have used the value 2247000 ((2247000 x 2048) x 1,015 = 4,670,883,840 = 4.3501GB) to try to fill the media but has not given effect ... the final size is always in the default DVD Rebuilder, between 4.32 and 4.33GB. :confused:

This is the case here also even if I would insert e.g. TargetSectors=999999 in the Rebuilder.ini. It seems DVD-RB doesn't let me make a backup which is shrinked to e.g. 50% of a DVD-5 source. The output seems to be forced to the size of the DVD-5 media regardless of the TargetSectors parameter. But maybe (hopefully) I am completely wrong with this assumption.

[mparade]

It could take a long time before your attachment is approved, can you post it somewhere else?

http://www.mammutmail.com/hu/mail/download/0765b330e404acdc24f2158471c50677

[manolito]

Hi manolito, i used the way down without prediction.
Is correct?


Yes, this is the correct option.

(In the log you posted earlier you had selected the CQ based method)


Cheers
manolito

[Groucho2004]

Due to some reason, here DVD-RB stick to -- TargetSize (sectors):1*998*736 for analyzing VTS_01 for the optimal CQ factor. I am using TargetSectors=500000 in the .ini file, though. TargetSizeMode=0 couldn't be the reason? I have run out of ideas.

Any help would be appreciated.
Have you tried removing the "TargetSizeMode=0" line? Are you using 2-pass mode? It might only work in that mode. It has been a very long time since I used DVD-RB, forgot almost all about what the settings do.
Maybe jbobbs can shed some light.

[mparade]

Have you tried removing the "TargetSizeMode=0" line? Are you using 2-pass mode? It might only work in that mode. It has been a very long time since I used DVD-RB, forgot almost all about what the settings do.
Maybe jbobbs can shed some light.

The same here. Since 2005 I haven't used it, but a lot of very good film only available in DVD-5 format and the conversion from DVD to BD is not perfect (by using the methods I know). Anyway, none of the proposals worked, unfortunately. I am using HC encoder in OPV mode. 2-pass mode did not work either (DVD-RB seems to be forcing noencode on the source if it is under the limit of the size of DVD-5 disc regardless of the TargetSector parameter.

[soneca]

Yes, this is the correct option.

(In the log you posted earlier you had selected the CQ based method)


Cheers
manolito

No, I'm with the bitrate distribution enabled, so that log.

[manolito]

No, I'm with the bitrate distribution enabled, so that log.

I have not used the Pro version of DVD-RB for a long time (I like the free version much better), bit IIRC the "Bitrate Distribution" option was added to the Pro version much later, and it probably is not compatible with my wrapper tool.

The normal method to distribute the bitrate in DVD-RB is cell-based. I recall that some users requested that a distribution method based on the entire movie should be used (there even was a plugin which did just that), and after some time jdobbs (reluctantly) agreed to add that method.

I do not know how exactly this method was implemented, but your earlier log indicates that a couple of prediction runs are executed to determine a suitable CQ value for the whole encode.

This will not work for my wrapper. My tool parses the command line, and if the parameter "-1" is detected, it calls HCenc with the paramter "-1pass". With bitrate distribution enabled the "-1" parameter will probably never be issued.


Cheers
manolito

[Sharc]

...The normal method to distribute the bitrate in DVD-RB is cell-based. I recall that some users requested that a distribution method based on the entire movie should be used (there even was a plugin which did just that), and after some time jdobbs (reluctantly) agreed to add that method.

I do not know how exactly this method was implemented, but your earlier log indicates that a couple of prediction runs are executed to determine a suitable CQ value for the whole encode.
It was found that for optimum redistribution, the redistribution pass should be run with the same CQ value which would yield the target file size with a 1-pass encode (rather than using some CQ based on an educated guess). The purpose of the prediction steps was to find out that CQ value.

[Sharc]

Sorry for keep asking the same question but how can you set -- TargetSize (sectors):1.662.420? Whatever "TargetSectors" parameter I am using in the ini file the program ignores it due to some for me unknown reason.
The syntax for BD-RB and DVD-RB are different.
For DVD-RB it is:
[Options]
CCETargetSectors=2245000
ProcoderTargetSectors=2254000
HCTargetSectors=2250000

[Groucho2004]

The syntax for BD-RB and DVD-RB are different.
For DVD-RB it is:
[Options]
CCETargetSectors=2245000
ProcoderTargetSectors=2254000
HCTargetSectors=2250000
Now that I see it I do remember. It really has been a long time since I used it...

[mparade]

The syntax for BD-RB and DVD-RB are different.
For DVD-RB it is:
[Options]
CCETargetSectors=2245000
ProcoderTargetSectors=2254000
HCTargetSectors=2250000

I am not using HCTargetSectors=2.250.000, I am using HCTargetSectors=2250000 as it is proposed by you, written in the help file etc. Please find above the link in one of my previous posts including the ini file I am using. And the program ignored every value I have used so far (I have only checked values well under the size of a DVD-5 media, e.g. TargetSectors=500000). The question is what I am doing wrong and if it is possible at all in DVD-RB to use such a low TargetSectors parameter that is not ignored by the program.

Thank you very much for your answer.

[Groucho2004]

I am not using HCTargetSectors=2.250.000, I am using HCTargetSectors=2250000 as it is proposed by you, written in the help file etc. Please find above the link in one of my previous posts including the ini file I am using. And the program ignored every value I have used so far (I have only checked values well under the size of a DVD-5 media, e.g. TargetSectors=500000). The question is what I am doing wrong and if it is possible at all in DVD-RB to use such a low TargetSectors parameter that is not ignored by the program.

Thank you very much for your answer.
The INI you posted only contains "TargetSectors" which is wrong for DVD-RB. I'm not sure you understand Sharc's reply.

[mparade]

The INI you posted only contains "TargetSectors" which is wrong for DVD-RB. I'm not sure you understand Sharc's reply.

Anything I "do" either with TargetSectors or HCTargetSectors parameter the result is the same: the program sticks to 1998736 sectors. I think the program assume that my destination media is DVD-5 and this is the cause of the issue. But why if I am using a unique TargetSectors/HCTargetSectors parameter? I would like to use this parameter because I would like to get a certain file size with certain quality.

[Sharc]

.... I am using HCTargetSectors=2250000 as it is proposed by you, written in the help file etc. Please find above the link in one of my previous posts including the ini file I am using.

From your posted .ini file:
.....
HC_LOSSLESS=1
HC_VBR_Bias=20
TargetSectors=999999
........
This will definitely not work.

[mparade]

From your posted .ini file:

This will definitely not work.

Thanks for the info. Could you please detail a bit your answer?
I would need your opinion regarding my problem, if possible.
The last time I used DVD-RB was in 2005....All those parameters above except the TargetSectors are the program defaults.

[Sharc]

Thanks for the info. Could you please detail a bit your answer?
I would need your opinion regarding my problem, if possible.
The last time I used DVD-RB was in 2005....All those parameters above except the TargetSectors are the program defaults.
Do as follows:
1. Close DVD-Rebuilder
2. Open the file rebuilder.ini in a text editor
3. Find and delete the line "TargetSectors=...."
4. Insert this at the beginning (line 2), just below [Options]
CCETargetSectors=2245000
ProcoderTargetSectors=2254000
HCTargetSectors=22500005. Change the value(s) for the sizes as you need (Note: number of sectors, not bytes)
6. Save the modified rebuilder.ini file and close it.
7. Start DVD-Rebuilder

Post your rebuilder.ini file again if above should not help.

[soneca]

Thanks Sharc!

[mparade]

Do as follows:
1. Close DVD-Rebuilder
2. Open the file rebuilder.ini in a text editor
3. Find and delete the line "TargetSectors=...."
4. Insert this at the beginning (line 2), just below [Options]
CCETargetSectors=2245000
ProcoderTargetSectors=2254000
HCTargetSectors=22500005. Change the value(s) for the sizes as you need (Note: number of sectors, not bytes)
6. Save the modified rebuilder.ini file and close it.
7. Start DVD-Rebuilder

Post your rebuilder.ini file again if above should not help.

No success.

http://www.mammutmail.com/hu/mail/download/287181aecf87bd7c5b02c8ac4c04d067

Edit: The source of the problem was outside of DVD-RB, sorry everybody. Running DVD-RB as admin and everything is working as it should.

[Sharc]

No success.

http://www.mammutmail.com/hu/mail/download/287181aecf87bd7c5b02c8ac4c04d067

Edit: The source of the problem was outside of DVD-RB, sorry everybody. Running DVD-RB as admin and everything is working as it should.
Glad you got it right :)

[soneca]

Hi Sharc,
The command "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q = 1" was created to improve the quality of the main VTS, in a normal DVD with the movie and the extras.
I do not remember... if I enable redistribution to all VTSs(series) this mode automatically cancels the command "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q = 1", or even so there will be more predictions on longer VTS on a DVD with episodes?

[Sharc]

Hi Sharc,
The command "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q = 1" was created to improve the quality of the main VTS, in a normal DVD with the movie and the extras.
I do not remember... if I enable redistribution to all VTSs(series) this mode automatically cancels the command "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q = 1", or even so there will be more predictions on longer VTS on a DVD with episodes?
From Rebuilder.txt:
- Added a "hidden" setting called "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q". If
set to 1 (REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1) in the "[Options]" area of
REBUILDER.INI, a set of prediction passes are run on the
main-movie VTS (largest) to determine a Final_Q value
that is used for REDISTRIBUTION rather than the standard
Base_Q. This will add a little time to the PREPARE phase
and some reports have been made of improved quality based upon subjective analysis.
It was found that for optimum redistribution, the redistribution pass should be run with the same CQ value (called "Final_Q") which would approximately yield the target file size with a 1-pass encode, rather than using the standard "Base-CQ".

[soneca]

Ok, but I want to know is if this command(REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q) is always active it will work even in a series dvd?
Can I leave always active or will mess up on a DVD with episodes of similar size?

[Sharc]

Ok, but I want to know is if this command(REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q) is always active it will work even in a series dvd?
Can I leave always active or will mess up on a DVD with episodes of similar size?
I can't tell you how it behaves with episodic discs. I never tried as far as I remember. You would have to run a test. But even when it is left ON it shouldn't do any harm, I imagine.

EDIT:
I just noticed when you select in the Mode menu "Enable Bitrate Redistribution" AND "Apply Redistribution to all VTSs (Series)", the REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1 is kept. I think this is ok.

[soneca]

Thanks Sharc!
I think only the jdobbs to solve this question for sure. :confused: :)

[manolito]

FWIW I updated my HC_RB wrapper to support the Bitrate Redistribution feature of the DVD-RB Pro version.

I also added an alternative version of the wrapper which makes use of HC's Auto Interlace feature. When using this version all -interlaced and -progressive command line parameters are ignored. HC then automatically switches between interlaced and progressive encoding depending on the source.

Download link in the older post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1765737#post1765737


Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

manolito, the executable is not being recognized as encoder.

[08:28:53] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.28.2
- AVISYNTH 2.6.0.6
- QuEnc UNKNOWN encoder selected.


- Failed to create M2V: V01000000001001
- The encoder doesn't appear functional.
- Aborting...
Aborted.

[manolito]

Could it be that your browser displayed a previous link from its cache? The 2 exe files must have a creation date of about 04/29/04:49 or 03:09.
Here's the current link again:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro


Other possible reasons could be that the original HCenc executable is not present in the same folder as the wrapper. And the file name "HCBatch.exe" will NOT work, it has to be "HCenc_xxx.exe" or "HCenc.exe".

Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

Strange, already checked everything and has nothing wrong.
Did you ever test with the DVD-RB Pro?

[manolito]

Strange, already checked everything and has nothing wrong.
Did you ever test with the DVD-RB Pro?

Yes, of course, many times...
WinXP SP3
Will test on Win7 64bit later tonight.


P.S.
The exe files are compiled batch fles. Make sure that your virus scanner doesn't block them silently.

[soneca]

Verified, the antivirus(Nod32) is not blocking the process.
Ok, waiting for the test with the W7 64bit which is what I use.

[manolito]

Alright, found it... :eek:
Turns out it has nothing to do with the operating system, it's the number of CPU cores.

The Pro version has the option "Multiple Encoder Processes" turned on by default. To make my wrapper tool work correctly this option must be deactivated.


Technical:
QuEnc is not multithreaded, so jdobbs used a workaround for QuEnc which creates a couple of separate physical encoders in different folders. My plugin has no way to detect these encoders, so it will crash on a computer with a multi-core CPU.

Turning this option off has no negative influence on HCenc. HC's SMP option is active by default, it will use all available CPU cores even if this DVD-Rebuilder option is deactivated.


Cheers
manolito

[soneca]

manolito, thank you!
Now it is working properly! ;)
I'll make some comparisons, especially with low bitrates.

[mparade]

Is there any specific HC setting against blocking on dark flat areas/
during colour transitions? However high the bitrate, the blocking remains in the output (I have used 6 types of matrix so far at around CQ=7 each). The output has nearly the same bitrate as the source by now with a lot of blocking, the source lacks of any blocking. The player is the same for both: PowerDVD 15. Blocking is very visible in the reencode.

[Sharc]

@mparade
Did you try with Redistribution? Bitrate for that scene may become even higher than the original.

You may also check rebuilder.ini for following settings under [Options] (some of these can be tweaked via DVD-RB's Settings menu):
Redist_Percent=15
REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1
REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=0.55
Q_sample_percentage=1.0
HC_CQ_BFACTOR=1.4
HC_CQ_PFACTOR=1.05
HC_AQ=2
HC_Quality=3
HC_VBR_Bias=20
HC_LUMGAIN=2
Redistribute=1
HC_FOR_REDIST=1

[mparade]

@mparade
Did you try with Redistribution? Bitrate for that scene may become even higher than the original.

You may also check rebuilder.ini for following settings under [Options] (some of these can be tweaked via DVD-RB's Settings menu):
Redist_Percent=15
REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1
REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=0.55
Q_sample_percentage=1.0
HC_CQ_BFACTOR=1.4
HC_CQ_PFACTOR=1.05
HC_AQ=2
HC_Quality=3
HC_VBR_Bias=20
HC_LUMGAIN=2
Redistribute=1
HC_FOR_REDIST=1

Thanks. I try to find out what combination solve my pixelation problem (I used redistribution from the menu but did not tweak the defaults).

[Sharc]

Thanks. I try to find out what combination solve my pixelation problem (I used redistribution from the menu but did not tweak the defaults).
You could also try to set the bitrate for that segment manually to a high value using the Video Segment Viewer/Editor or RB-Opt.

[mparade]

You could also try to set the bitrate for that segment manually to a high value using the Video Segment Viewer/Editor or RB-Opt.

I had to give up my work with HC encoder. Perhaps I am too noob to find the correct settings to avoid blocking in some difficult scenes. I changed to CCE 2.67.0.27 and the problems are gone. The results meets my quality requirements now without wasting my time to find the correct settings in HC.

[Sharc]

Well, there exist conditions where HC has its limitations compared to the 1000.- USD CCE ... ;)

[manolito]

@ mparade

May I ask which version of HCenc you have been using?
In my experience the latest v 0.28 has a couple of improvements when it comes to blocking on dark/flat areas. For me increasing the values for LUMGAIN, AQ and MINBRFAC always took care of such problems.

Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

@ mparade

May I ask which version of HCenc you have been using?
In my experience the latest v 0.28 has a couple of improvements when it comes to blocking on dark/flat areas. For me increasing the values for LUMGAIN, AQ and MINBRFAC always took care of such problems.

Cheers
manolito

I used your plugin and instructions (so, the newest that can be downloaded from the site of the author). :)
Anyway, I haven't checked MINBRFAC parameter yet. I think the problem is that the source is "difficult" to encode properly: lot of flat areas with color transitions etc.

[mparade]

I have just realized that DVD-RB is not using CCE in multiprocess mode. Is it possible that the software only works with HC in multiprocess mode? I have double-checked my ini file as well and the multi-process parameter is set correctly (12 is used by the menu which is the amount of my physical cores multiplied by 2). HC encoder is working in multi-process mode correctly (using all the 12 threads), but CCE does not. Without multiprocess mode (mainly if some effective filters are also used) the encoding takes forever...
I cannot use SetMTMode() without multiprocessing, either, because the proper rows should be inserted in the proper place in the script file and that is not allowed by the program.

Please help.

[jdobbs]

What is your processor utilization?

[mparade]

What is your processor utilization?

Very minimal: between 10-15%, so I am pretty sure only 1 thread is working with CCE. (with HC when multiprocess was in use it was between 65-70% and 12pcs of HC windows was opened by DVD-RB..now I am running DVD-RB with CCE and BD-RB with x264 parallel to raise up the utilization to ~100%).

[jdobbs]

If I remember correctly, CCE doesn't allow more than one instance to execute at a time. So DVD-RB can't run more than that.

[mparade]

@ mparade

May I ask which version of HCenc you have been using?
In my experience the latest v 0.28 has a couple of improvements when it comes to blocking on dark/flat areas. For me increasing the values for LUMGAIN, AQ and MINBRFAC always took care of such problems.

Cheers
manolito

Hello Manolito,

I try to find a solution to my "pixelation" problem using your plugin (CCE is not an acceptable way for me because if I cannot run multiple instances of the encoder I will be a grand-grandfather in some cases before the encoder finishes it's job :). You told me try to raise up parameter *MINBRFAC as well to avoid "pixelation". According to the HC manual it has effect only on 2 pass encoding, but your script is working only in 1-pass, right? If I use this parameter in your HC.ini file while doing a 1-pass encode, will the HC encoder consider this parameter or not? In the opened HC window I do not see if this parameter is considered by the encoder.

Thanks for your help in advance.

[manolito]

Of course my plugin supports 2-pass encodes.
After installing the plugin set the QuEnc parameters to 2-pass, and HCenc will do a 2-pass encode.

Make sure to use the current version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

And also do not forget to deactivate the "multiple encoder processes" in DVD-RB. See this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Of course my plugin supports 2-pass encodes.
After installing the plugin set the QuEnc parameters to 2-pass, and HCenc will do a 2-pass encode.

Make sure to use the current version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

And also do not forget to deactivate the "multiple encoder processes" in DVD-RB. See this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Cheers
manolito

Thank you very much! I have just started my deep tests on difficult sources with your new plugin...let you know the results asap!

:thanks:

[mparade]

Is it possible in DVD-RB to encode an 5.1 track to 2.0 stereo like in BD-RB? 5.1 is to much for me using my stereo headphones. :)

[jdobbs]

Sorry, but no. DVD-RB keeps original audio intact.

[mparade]

Sorry, but no. DVD-RB keeps original audio intact.

It doesn't change the fact that this is the best DVD encoder
software in the world! :thanks:

[mparade]

Of course my plugin supports 2-pass encodes.
After installing the plugin set the QuEnc parameters to 2-pass, and HCenc will do a 2-pass encode.

Make sure to use the current version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/039nro

And also do not forget to deactivate the "multiple encoder processes" in DVD-RB. See this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Cheers
manolito

Hello manolito,

Is there any command line parameter in your plugin that is forced to a specific value (which can overwrite my specific command line parameter)?

I have just found that in the HC window some setting has a NA status inspite of giving an exact value for those in the HC.ini. Are you forcing some parameter in the command line? If so, which ones?

Thanks for your great tool.

[manolito]

HCenc flags parameters as N/A if they are not applicable for the encoding mode. Example:
You can set a value for BIAS in the HC.INI file. But if you select 1-pass VBR as your encoding mode, this value for BIAS will be ignored. You will see N/A in the GUI.

My wrapper tool simply tries to translate QuEnc command line parameters to HCenc compatible parameters. They are pretty similar, so this is an easy task. Whenever HC does not recognize a parameter, it simply ignores it without an error message which makes it even easier for me. And for HCenc a command line parameter always takes precedence over a command in HC.INI.

The source batch file for HC_RB.exe is this one:

@ECHO Off
SET HC_DRIVE=%~d0
SET HC_PATH=%~p0
SET CMDLINE=

%HC_DRIVE%
CD "%HC_PATH%"
IF NOT EXIST HCenc.exe COPY /b HCenc*.exe HCenc.exe >NUL

:assemble
IF !%1==! GOTO doit
IF %1==-b GOTO bitrate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM For the "AutoInterlaced" Mode activate the follwing command. For the regular interlaced/progressive mode activate the two commands below.

REM IF NOT %1==-interlaced IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1

IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
IF %1==-nointerlaced SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -progressive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF %1==-dc SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -dc_prec
IF %1==-cgop SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -closedgops
IF %1==-hq SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -profile best
IF %1==-1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -1pass
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:bitrate
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SHIFT
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SET /A bitrate=%1
IF %bitrate% LSS 200 SET cq=1
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:doit
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -b = -cq_maxbitrate %
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -1pass= %
HCenc.exe%CMDLINE%

It is easy to read, so you can see for yourself what the plugin does....


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

HCenc flags parameters as N/A if they are not applicable for the encoding mode. Example:
You can set a value for BIAS in the HC.INI file. But if you select 1-pass VBR as your encoding mode, this value for BIAS will be ignored. You will see N/A in the GUI.

My wrapper tool simply tries to translate QuEnc command line parameters to HCenc compatible parameters. They are pretty similar, so this is an easy task. Whenever HC does not recognize a parameter, it simply ignores it without an error message which makes it even easier for me. And for HCenc a command line parameter always takes precedence over a command in HC.INI.

The source batch file for HC_RB.exe is this one:

@ECHO Off
SET HC_DRIVE=%~d0
SET HC_PATH=%~p0
SET CMDLINE=

%HC_DRIVE%
CD "%HC_PATH%"
IF NOT EXIST HCenc.exe COPY /b HCenc*.exe HCenc.exe >NUL

:assemble
IF !%1==! GOTO doit
IF %1==-b GOTO bitrate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM For the "AutoInterlaced" Mode activate the follwing command. For the regular interlaced/progressive mode activate the two commands below.

REM IF NOT %1==-interlaced IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1

IF NOT %1==-nointerlaced IF NOT %1==-dc IF NOT %1==-cgop IF NOT %1==-hq IF NOT %1==-1 IF NOT %1==-2 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
IF %1==-nointerlaced SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -progressive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF %1==-dc SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -dc_prec
IF %1==-cgop SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -closedgops
IF %1==-hq SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -profile best
IF %1==-1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% -1pass
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:bitrate
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SHIFT
SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE% %1
SET /A bitrate=%1
IF %bitrate% LSS 200 SET cq=1
SHIFT
GOTO assemble

:doit
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -b = -cq_maxbitrate %
IF !%cq%==!1 SET CMDLINE=%CMDLINE: -1pass= %
HCenc.exe%CMDLINE%

It is easy to read, so you can see for yourself what the plugin does....


Cheers
manolito

Thanks for your fast reply! I will check it. It is strange for me that using an OPV method none of the CQ parameters are applicable according to the HC GUI. But, it is quite probably, the reason is that I do not know something correctly.

[manolito]

It is strange for me that using an OPV method none of the CQ parameters are applicable according to the HC GUI. But, it is quite probably, the reason is that I do not know something correctly.

Alright, time for some technical explanations... :devil:

There are many different approaches for 1-pass VBR encodes. One of them is the CQ (Constant Quantizer) method which uses sample runs to determine the compressibility of the source. This method is used by DVD-Rebuilder. Constant Quantizer is NOT equal to Constant Quality. Also for DVD compliant output the quantizer must be increased if the DVD max bitrate is reached (HCenc does this automatically by using the CQ_MAXBITRATE parameter).

HCenc introduced its own 1-pass VBR method a little later. This method does NOT use CQ encoding. You can see it more like a "poor man's 2-pass VBR" method. It works like this:

There is only one sample pass (the CQ method needs several sample passes). This sample pass consists of two parts. In the first part a "base quantizer" is determined. In the second part a compression curve of the source is established. Only a certain percentage of the source is scanned for this, then the resulting compression curve gets interpolated and smoothed. Much like the first pass of a 2-pass encode, but much faster (and of course less precise). The second pass takes this compression curve to distribute the bitrate and reach the desired size.

IMO this 1-pass VBR method is far superior to the CQ based method. But of course there will be users who might disagree... And of course if you select HCenc's integrated 1-pass VBR method through my wrapper, the CQ parameters will not get used.

I hope it's a little clearer now...:cool:


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Alright, time for some technical explanations... :devil:

There are many different approaches for 1-pass VBR encodes. One of them is the CQ (Constant Quantizer) method which uses sample runs to determine the compressibility of the source. This method is used by DVD-Rebuilder. Constant Quantizer is NOT equal to Constant Quality. Also for DVD compliant output the quantizer must be increased if the DVD max bitrate is reached (HCenc does this automatically by using the CQ_MAXBITRATE parameter).

HCenc introduced its own 1-pass VBR method a little later. This method does NOT use CQ encoding. You can see it more like a "poor man's 2-pass VBR" method. It works like this:

There is only one sample pass (the CQ method needs several sample passes). This sample pass consists of two parts. In the first part a "base quantizer" is determined. In the second part a compression curve of the source is established. Only a certain percentage of the source is scanned for this, then the resulting compression curve gets interpolated and smoothed. Much like the first pass of a 2-pass encode, but much faster (and of course less precise). The second pass takes this compression curve to distribute the bitrate and reach the desired size.

IMO this 1-pass VBR method is far superior to the CQ based method. But of course there will be users who might disagree... And of course if you select HCenc's integrated 1-pass VBR method through my wrapper, the CQ parameters will not get used.

I hope it's a little clearer now...:cool:


Cheers
manolito

Thank you very much. Now it is OK. I have to keep doing my tests with your wrapper because until now I got better results (much less blocking in dark flat areas) with the CQ method using Manono's 10 best Matrix with a reasonable Q parameter. I will let you know the results asap. Anyway, auto-interlaced feature is an excellent new feature!

[mparade]

Alright, time for some technical explanations... :devil:

There are many different approaches for 1-pass VBR encodes. One of them is the CQ (Constant Quantizer) method which uses sample runs to determine the compressibility of the source. This method is used by DVD-Rebuilder. Constant Quantizer is NOT equal to Constant Quality. Also for DVD compliant output the quantizer must be increased if the DVD max bitrate is reached (HCenc does this automatically by using the CQ_MAXBITRATE parameter).

HCenc introduced its own 1-pass VBR method a little later. This method does NOT use CQ encoding. You can see it more like a "poor man's 2-pass VBR" method. It works like this:

There is only one sample pass (the CQ method needs several sample passes). This sample pass consists of two parts. In the first part a "base quantizer" is determined. In the second part a compression curve of the source is established. Only a certain percentage of the source is scanned for this, then the resulting compression curve gets interpolated and smoothed. Much like the first pass of a 2-pass encode, but much faster (and of course less precise). The second pass takes this compression curve to distribute the bitrate and reach the desired size.

IMO this 1-pass VBR method is far superior to the CQ based method. But of course there will be users who might disagree... And of course if you select HCenc's integrated 1-pass VBR method through my wrapper, the CQ parameters will not get used.

I hope it's a little clearer now...:cool:


Cheers
manolito

Hello manolito,

Could you please send a link to your last plugin? I would like to resume my DVD projects with that one and DVD-RB.

Thank you very much in advance!

[manolito]

Hi mparade,

this is pretty old stuff now, most folks have abandoned DVD conversions in favor of AVC or even HEVC...

I have not updated the plugin since 2009, but it still works fine. Get it here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dj6kzj


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Hi mparade,

this is pretty old stuff now, most folks have abandoned DVD conversions in favor of AVC or even HEVC...

I have not updated the plugin since 2009, but it still works fine. Get it here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dj6kzj


Cheers
manolito

Hi manolito,

First of all, thank you very much!

I can not abandon these kind of conversions because I want to keep the original menus. (Or is there somewhere out an application that can convert DVDs directly to BD format? That would be the best way to follow with/without reencoding :))

Anyway, in this thread (even in last May) you made some modification to your wrapper tool. Am I correct?

[Sharc]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

[mparade]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

Thank you. First of all, I would like to see what is the maximum quality (and if it is acceptable for me) I can achieve with a difficult source by modifying the encoding parameters in HCenc and DVD-RB using a BD-5 media. I would like to keep the original DVD menus as well. I prefer Quick-Play menus on a BD-25 media only when dealing with short series like Tom&Jerry cartoon. And I really love that feature in that case (the only feature I am currently missing from a Quick-Play menu is to be able to select my language as default or at least after entering the menu it will not set back to english. Anyway, it is required by my nephews).

[manolito]

Anyway, in this thread (even in last May) you made some modification to your wrapper tool. Am I correct?

You are right, I totally forgot about this... :o
(I added the option to disable HCenc's autointerlaced mode, and you can enter a quantizer instead of the bitrate which will force a CQ encoding).

I have mainly switched to AVC conversions, but I do miss the nice DVD menus. FWIW Mr. Thuering (the author of DVDStyler) has plans to integrate the HD-DVD format in his software. Have a look at this thread:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dvdstyler/discussion/318795/thread/fbc486bd/

Sounds interesting...

Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

@jdobbs

I cannot install the keyfile for DVD-RB Pro. It tells "No connection could be established". Is it a problem on your end and I need to wait until it is solved?

[jdobbs]

@jdobbs

I cannot install the keyfile for DVD-RB Pro. It tells "No connection could be established". Is it a problem on your end and I need to wait until it is solved?My service provider experienced an outage. It's fixed.

[mparade]

You are right, I totally forgot about this... :o
(I added the option to disable HCenc's autointerlaced mode, and you can enter a quantizer instead of the bitrate which will force a CQ encoding).

I have mainly switched to AVC conversions, but I do miss the nice DVD menus. FWIW Mr. Thuering (the author of DVDStyler) has plans to integrate the HD-DVD format in his software. Have a look at this thread:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dvdstyler/discussion/318795/thread/fbc486bd/

Sounds interesting...

Cheers
manolito

Hi manolito,

With your wrapper tool only 1 pc of "general" matrix can be used for the complete disc through the HC.ini, right?
It would be great if I could use more than one depending on the calculated CQ value estimated by DVD-RB.

Can you do something/Did I miss something?

Thank you in advance for any help.

[manolito]

No, there is nothing I can do about it in my wrapper tool...

In DVD-RB the HCenc support is based on writing a new HC.INI by DVD-RB. The user has no control over the content of this INI as DVD-RB writes it on-the-fly. Furthermore the latest DVD-RB version is from a time when HCenc itself did not have a 1-pass VBR mode by itself, so the DVD-RB 1-pass mode relies on sample runs to estimate the needed CQ value.

My plugin works completely differently. It does not care about a HC.INI written on-the-fly by DVD-RB, it uses a static HC.INI in the HCenc folder, and only the user himself is responsible for the content of this INI file.

For 1-pass VBR mode the plugin uses the newer built-in method of HCenc which is far superior to the DVD-RB method which is based on Constant Quant encoding. HC itself uses adaptive quant matrices (the AQ parameter), the desired matrix must be specified in HC.INI, any matrices introduced by DVD-RB will be ignored.

To be absolutely clear, to use my plugin you need to specify "QuEnc" as your encoder in the DVD-RB setup, not HCenc. Just point the encoder location to HC_RB.exe (or HC_RB_auto-interlaced.exe) instead of QuEnc.exe.


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

No, there is nothing I can do about it in my wrapper tool...

In DVD-RB the HCenc support is based on writing a new HC.INI by DVD-RB. The user has no control over the content of this INI as DVD-RB writes it on-the-fly. Furthermore the latest DVD-RB version is from a time when HCenc itself did not have a 1-pass VBR mode by itself, so the DVD-RB 1-pass mode relies on sample runs to estimate the needed CQ value.

My plugin works completely differently. It does not care about a HC.INI written on-the-fly by DVD-RB, it uses a static HC.INI in the HCenc folder, and only the user himself is responsible for the content of this INI file.

For 1-pass VBR mode the plugin uses the newer built-in method of HCenc which is far superior to the DVD-RB method which is based on Constant Quant encoding. HC itself uses adaptive quant matrices (the AQ parameter), the desired matrix must be specified in HC.INI, any matrices introduced by DVD-RB will be ignored.

To be absolutely clear, to use my plugin you need to specify "QuEnc" as your encoder in the DVD-RB setup, not HCenc. Just point the encoder location to HC_RB.exe (or HC_RB_auto-interlaced.exe) instead of QuEnc.exe.


Cheers
manolito

Thanks for the explanation and for the great plugin. I am going to test it shortly and will give you a feedback on the results.

[mparade]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

Hello Sharc,

I am still testing an old CCE and the last HCEnc version.
The visual artifacts remained similar (however I am still testing the parameters (in HCEnc) if I can reduce them somehow to a degree which is acceptable already).
In HCEnc it seems I cannot set a minimum bitrate for the encoder, just an average. And from this average it seems the encoder will calculate a minimum.

Anyway, there are some unwanted materials on my original DVD that I want to remove, but DVD-RB does not include them in the VTS list, even though I set the limit to the lowest (0). How can I remove those unwanted stuff? Using an other app like vobblanker (in BD-RB I do not need an other app for this, those materials are always located in the stream tab)?

Thank you in advance.

[marco421]

yesterday I had to completely re-install windows 10 due to a Microsoft update glitch.
anyway, i'm trying to re-install bd-rb v50.23 which worked fine before everything went to hell.
now, after downloading a new version of v50.23 and extracting all the files, itry to run mscomcntl as administrator and get an error msg that says mscomcntl.ocx failed to load and can't be found. well, that's nonsense as i'm staring right at the file in the same folder with the other extracted files.
what do I have to do to correct this situation and get back to using bd-rb?

[Ch3vr0n]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=143716

step 3.1

[Sharc]

Hello Sharc,

I am still testing an old CCE and the last HCEnc version.
The visual artifacts remained similar (however I am still testing the parameters (in HCEnc) if I can reduce them somehow to a degree which is acceptable already).
In HCEnc it seems I cannot set a minimum bitrate for the encoder, just an average. And from this average it seems the encoder will calculate a minimum.

Anyway, there are some unwanted materials on my original DVD that I want to remove, but DVD-RB does not include them in the VTS list, even though I set the limit to the lowest (0). How can I remove those unwanted stuff? Using an other app like vobblanker (in BD-RB I do not need an other app for this, those materials are always located in the stream tab)?

Thank you in advance.
It is a long time since I have been using DVD-RB actively, but as far as I remember it was not possible to skip/edit certain material which was included in the VTS_01_0.vob for example. For full edit I relied on vobblanker which provided all required functionality.
Also, to reduce the size of bloated menus a utility called MenuShrink (I think) was very useful, but similar can also be done with vobblanker.

HCEnc low bitrate limit:
In the offical DVD-RB release offering REDISTRIBUTION you can set REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=x.x in the .ini which limits the bitrate reduction. I had to set it to 0.55 or 0.6 for certain discs to reduce blocking artefacts in dark scenes.
Remember that redistribution sets a new average bitrate on a per cell (chapter) basis from where the encoder will dynamically adjust the actual bitrate depending on the complexity of the scene.
See also the Rebuilder.txt:
October 7th, 2007 (v1.26.5)
CHANGES MADE TO PRO VERSION
- Added a REDISTRIBUTION threshold test that limits the
amount of low-side deviation allowed in the calculation of
redistribution. The default value of .5 limits a bitrate
reduction (in redistribution) to half what would have been
given in a standard DVD-RB encode. This dramatically
reduces the likelihood of getting values that are too low
in dark scenes. The threshold can be adjusted via a
hidden setting in the OPTIONS area of REBUILDER.INI. The
value (REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=) must fall in the range of
0 to 1. Any other value results in the default of .5
- Added a "hidden" setting called "REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q". If
set to 1 (REDIST_USE_FINAL_Q=1) in the "[Options]" area of
REBUILDER.INI, a set of prediction passes are run on the
main-movie VTS (largest) to determine a Final_Q value
that is used for REDISTRIBUTION rather than the standard
Base_Q. This will add a little time to the PREPARE phase
and some reports have been made of improved quality based
upon subjective analysis.

I can really not comment on manolito's plugin and HCEnc's 1-pass VBR mode because these were introduced later and I have never tried it.

[mparade]

It is a long time since I have been using DVD-RB actively, but as far as I remember it was not possible to skip/edit certain material which was included in the VTS_01_0.vob for example. For full edit I relied on vobblanker which provided all required functionality.
Also, to reduce the size of bloated menus a utility called MenuShrink (I think) was very useful, but similar can also be done with vobblanker.

HCEnc low bitrate limit:
In the offical DVD-RB release offering REDISTRIBUTION you can set REDIST_LOW_THRESHOLD=x.x in the .ini which limits the bitrate reduction. I had to set it to 0.55 or 0.6 for certain discs to reduce blocking artefacts in dark scenes.
Remember that redistribution sets a new average bitrate on a per cell (chapter) basis from where the encoder will dynamically adjust the actual bitrate depending on the complexity of the scene.
See also the Rebuilder.txt:


I can really not comment on manolito's plugin and HCEnc's 1-pass VBR mode because these were introduced later and I have never tried it.

Nice! Thank you for the info. It was very useful for me. I have now enough information to start my DVD projects burning them on DVD-5 media. I don't think I will ever want to burn them on DVD-9. Even though, I haven't finished with my tests yet, but I am now very close to an acceptable level of quality with very difficult low bitrate sources.

[manolito]

IMO for low bitrate sources (and you do not want to convert for DVD-9) your best bet is to make some room. Do you really need the complete original menus, do you need all the extras?

I have long decided that I have no use for all the fancy original menus. I create my own very basic menus using AVStoDVD or DVDStyler. I also convert 6-ch audio to stereo. To get an excellent quality conversion I never go below 4500 kbps (maybe even 4000 kbps sometimes). Lower bitrates will always compromise quality in some way, at least for regular movies (I'm not talking about talking heads...)

The bitrate distribution thing is a peculiarity of DVD-RB, all other DVD encoders do this unconditionally. DVD-RB does its conversion on a cell-by-cell basis, assuming that the original bitrate of a cell was chosen for a reason. For larger compression factors this might not give good results, distributing the bitrate over the whole movie often gives better results.

And if you really cannot avoid bitrates around 3500 kbps or lower, here are a couple of hints:

1. Use a low bitrate matrix (like the manono matrices) which take away available bits from the high detail areas and give them to the dark and flat areas.

2. In HCenc play with the Lumgain and the AQ parameters.

3. Try to use FFmpeg with the extreme HQ 2-pass parameters. They are optimized for bitrates around 3500 kbps and below, they are now integrated in DVDStyler. For AVStoDVD and DVD-RB you have to use my FFmpeg_VBR plugins.

4. Check out Procoder. For DVD-RB there is a plugin by Robot1 which supports Procoder. For low bitrates Procoder has the philosophy to soften the result a little, but to not introduce blocking artifacts. I think the results are very pleasing to watch, but of course some folks will prefer a sharper encode. Matter of taste...


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

IMO for low bitrate sources (and you do not want to convert for DVD-9) your best bet is to make some room. Do you really need the complete original menus, do you need all the extras?

I have long decided that I have no use for all the fancy original menus. I create my own very basic menus using AVStoDVD or DVDStyler. I also convert 6-ch audio to stereo. To get an excellent quality conversion I never go below 4500 kbps (maybe even 4000 kbps sometimes). Lower bitrates will always compromise quality in some way, at least for regular movies (I'm not talking about talking heads...)

The bitrate distribution thing is a peculiarity of DVD-RB, all other DVD encoders do this unconditionally. DVD-RB does its conversion on a cell-by-cell basis, assuming that the original bitrate of a cell was chosen for a reason. For larger compression factors this might not give good results, distributing the bitrate over the whole movie often gives better results.

And if you really cannot avoid bitrates around 3500 kbps or lower, here are a couple of hints:

1. Use a low bitrate matrix (like the manono matrices) which take away available bits from the high detail areas and give them to the dark and flat areas.

2. In HCenc play with the Lumgain and the AQ parameters.

3. Try to use FFmpeg with the extreme HQ 2-pass parameters. They are optimized for bitrates around 3500 kbps and below, they are now integrated in DVDStyler. For AVStoDVD and DVD-RB you have to use my FFmpeg_VBR plugins.

4. Check out Procoder. For DVD-RB there is a plugin by Robot1 which supports Procoder. For low bitrates Procoder has the philosophy to soften the result a little, but to not introduce blocking artifacts. I think the results are very pleasing to watch, but of course some folks will prefer a sharper encode. Matter of taste...


Cheers
manolito

:thanks:

It seems I will choose specific matrices and CCE.
I had no "success" with HCenc in dark featureless scenes. A lot of people prefer CCE to Procoder. I like to keep the fancy original menus and the extras as well as (like with my BD-s) to throw out all unwanted audio tracks and materials (like disturbing warnings etc.) using vobblanker. :)
Thank you very much again for your help, time and efforts!

[mparade]

IMO for low bitrate sources (and you do not want to convert for DVD-9) your best bet is to make some room. Do you really need the complete original menus, do you need all the extras?

I have long decided that I have no use for all the fancy original menus. I create my own very basic menus using AVStoDVD or DVDStyler. I also convert 6-ch audio to stereo. To get an excellent quality conversion I never go below 4500 kbps (maybe even 4000 kbps sometimes). Lower bitrates will always compromise quality in some way, at least for regular movies (I'm not talking about talking heads...)

The bitrate distribution thing is a peculiarity of DVD-RB, all other DVD encoders do this unconditionally. DVD-RB does its conversion on a cell-by-cell basis, assuming that the original bitrate of a cell was chosen for a reason. For larger compression factors this might not give good results, distributing the bitrate over the whole movie often gives better results.

And if you really cannot avoid bitrates around 3500 kbps or lower, here are a couple of hints:

1. Use a low bitrate matrix (like the manono matrices) which take away available bits from the high detail areas and give them to the dark and flat areas.

2. In HCenc play with the Lumgain and the AQ parameters.

3. Try to use FFmpeg with the extreme HQ 2-pass parameters. They are optimized for bitrates around 3500 kbps and below, they are now integrated in DVDStyler. For AVStoDVD and DVD-RB you have to use my FFmpeg_VBR plugins.

4. Check out Procoder. For DVD-RB there is a plugin by Robot1 which supports Procoder. For low bitrates Procoder has the philosophy to soften the result a little, but to not introduce blocking artifacts. I think the results are very pleasing to watch, but of course some folks will prefer a sharper encode. Matter of taste...


Cheers
manolito

Could you please send me a link to your latest "FFmpeg_VBR plugins"? I would give them a try in DVD-RB and compare the result to the one I got from CCE.

Thank you in advance.

[mparade]

@mparade
Why don't you simply IMPORT your DVD in BD-RB and encode it AVC with x264? You can even add quick-menus if you want.

I haven't followed your thread entirely, but if you stick to DVD-RB and HC-Enc, have you tried bitrate redistribution and/or setting the minimum bitrate in the .ini to prevent too low bitrates for difficult scenes?

Edit:
Another option: Use a 9GB dual-layer target and avoid re-encoding.

As far as I remember from the past, either I imported progressive material or interlaced into BD-RB, BD-RB marked both of them as interlaced (due to the requirement of the BD standard) and sent both to the encoder as if they were both interlaced (Having set the "DEINTERLACER_TYPE=4" and both were sent as progressive). This means that the progressive video will be processed as interlaced or reversed, right?

If I convert a DVD-9 in mpeg2 format and DVD structure to a DVD-5 in AVC format and BD structure will my BD player able to play it? I have read some compatibilty issues (while some player will play some will not) regarding this kind of conversion.

Thanks for the help in advance.

[manolito]

Could you please send me a link to your latest "FFmpeg_VBR plugins"? I would give them a try in DVD-RB and compare the result to the one I got from CCE.

Thank you in advance.

Sure, here you go...
https://www.sendspace.com/file/gi4b1x

Note:
I suppose you will mostly be interested in the Extreme HQ 2-pass mode. The paramaters for this mode have been adjusted very carefully with a lot of help by Fishman0919 from this forum and a couple of users from the DVDStyler forum. So you should not really try to tweak these parameters, it would be a waste of time. You cannot even specify a different matrix for this mode without editing the batch file...

Also note that the Trellis Quant option has been disabled in the plugin. For the FFmpeg MPEG2 encoder this option is broken, it can screw up your encodes considerably.


Cheers
manolito

[mparade]

Sure, here you go...
https://www.sendspace.com/file/gi4b1x

Note:
I suppose you will mostly be interested in the Extreme HQ 2-pass mode. The paramaters for this mode have been adjusted very carefully with a lot of help by Fishman0919 from this forum and a couple of users from the DVDStyler forum. So you should not really try to tweak these parameters, it would be a waste of time. You cannot even specify a different matrix for this mode without editing the batch file...

Also note that the Trellis Quant option has been disabled in the plugin. For the FFmpeg MPEG2 encoder this option is broken, it can screw up your encodes considerably.


Cheers
manolito

Hello manolito,

I have got this message from DVD-RB when using the plugin:

"- Failed to create M2V: V02000000001001
- The encoder doesn't appear functional.
- Aborting..."

Do you have any idea what I have missed?
When trying to point to "use_ffmpeg.bat" there is no chance to select a file using a bat extension so I had to modify the rebuilder.ini itself manually.

[manolito]

Just guessing here...

You do have FFmpeg.exe in the same folder as the plugin files, do you?

If you are on Win XP, you know that the current FFmpeg binaries do not run under Win XP any longer? You need to use XP compatible builds (by rogerdpack or Sherpya or there is a Chinese build linked to in the Zeranoe forum).

For FFmpeg builds starting with v 3.1.2 or younger you need to add your "AviSynth\Plugins" folder to the "Path" environment variable as soon as the FFmpeg input is an AVS script. This is the case for DVD-RB. If the AVS script loads plugins from a different folder, this folder must be added to the path, too. The free version of Rebuilder loads DGDecode.dll from the Rebuilder path (I have no idea about the Pro version).

I recommed to use this version of FFmpeg by rogerdpack:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/ffmpegwindowsbi/files/2016-07-18/ffmpeg.static.2016-07-18-g450cf40.32-bit.ffmpeg-static-xp-compatible.zip/download
It is fairly recent, it works under XP, and it does not require to add the Plugins folder to your path.

Your AviSynth version should not be lower than v 2.60.

You do know that in the DVD-RB Pro version you need to turn off the option "Use multiple encoder processes"? See this post:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1766262#post1766262


Alright, this is all I can think of right now.

Good luck
manolito


//EDIT//
For selecting a .bat file all you need is enter an asterisk (*) as the file name and press Enter. Then all files in the folder will show up.

[jimaker]

Hi,
How can I get a specific subtitle track to play by default? Actually, knowing how to play any audio or subtitle track by default would be helpful.
Jim

[rjd0309]

Hi,
How can I get a specific subtitle track to play by default? Actually, knowing how to play any audio or subtitle track by default would be helpful.
Jim

Setting the stream number for audio, subtitle, or angle requires the SetSTN command. You could use PgcEdit to add a SetSTN command as a PRE command to your Title.

[manolito]

@jdobbbs

Over at Videohelp there are a couple of folks who are interested in the DVD-RB Pro version. Here is a quote from yesterday:
A couple times within the last three years I was looking to purchase DVD-RB Pro and obtain a keyfile, but my efforts to contact the developer were unavailing.

Could you outline the purchase process for them without having to register at Doom9?

I also remember that some time ago you posted that you intended to publish a "final" Pro version which would be slightly modified and which would be free. Are you still planning on this?


Cheers
manolito