Problem with BD-RB subtitles

[jdobbs]

Look at the working folder and see if there is a .SUP that ends with "_9999.SUP". Then look in MUX_MOVIE_ONLY.meta and see if it is being muxed into the stream (if doing a movie-only backup other than ALTENATE).

[CV91913]

Look at the working folder and see if there is a .SUP that ends with "_9999.SUP". Then look in MUX_MOVIE_ONLY.meta and see if it is being muxed into the stream (if doing a movie-only backup other than ALTENATE).
I delete the working folder automatically so I will have to rerun it and will check. Thanks.

[CV91913]

Look at the working folder and see if there is a .SUP that ends with "_9999.SUP". Then look in MUX_MOVIE_ONLY.meta and see if it is being muxed into the stream (if doing a movie-only backup other than ALTENATE).
Yes, there is a .SUP named: 00002.track_9999.sup

I am including the .meta file. Unless I am missing something, there is no reference to the sup file.
MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --blu-ray --label=THE_EQUALIZER --vbr --custom-
chapters=00:00:00.000;00:06:49.659;00:13:03.574;00:20:55.796;00:25:48.755;00:35:26.457;00:46:32.122;00:55:44.007;01:03:59.418;01:
13:53.053;01:20:58.728;01:31:09.338;01:38:37.745;01:47:28.984;01:55:38.264;02:00:01.485 --vbv-len=500 --start-time=27000000

V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00002.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00003.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00004.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00005.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00006.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00007.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00008.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00009.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00010.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00011.AVS.264", fps=23.976, insertSEI, contSPS
A_AC3, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\AUD_00002_4352.AC3", lang=eng
A_AC3, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\00002.track_4353.AC3", timeshift=-8ms, lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\00002.track_4608.SUP",fps=23.976,lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\00002.track_4609.SUP",fps=23.976,lang=eng

[jdobbs]

Yes, there is a .SUP named: 00002.track_9999.sup

I am including the .meta file. Unless I am missing something, there is no reference to the sup file.
MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --blu-ray --label=THE_EQUALIZER --vbr --custom-
chapters=00:00:00.000;00:06:49.659;00:13:03.574;00:20:55.796;00:25:48.755;00:35:26.457;00:46:32.122;00:55:44.007;01:03:59.418;01:
13:53.053;01:20:58.728;01:31:09.338;01:38:37.745;01:47:28.984;01:55:38.264;02:00:01.485 --vbv-len=500 --start-time=27000000

V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00002.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00003.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00004.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00005.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00006.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00007.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00008.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00009.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\VID_00010.AVS.264"+"C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES
\VID_00011.AVS.264", fps=23.976, insertSEI, contSPS
A_AC3, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\AUD_00002_4352.AC3", lang=eng
A_AC3, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\00002.track_4353.AC3", timeshift=-8ms, lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\00002.track_4608.SUP",fps=23.976,lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "C:\USERS\PUBLIC\VIDEOS\BD25\WORKFILES\00002.track_4609.SUP",fps=23.976,lang=eng
Hmm... that's a problem. I'll have to go back and look at the code. I'll also pick up "The Equalizer" and see if I can repeat it.

[CV91913]

Hmm... that's a problem. I'll have to go back and look at the code. I'll also pick up "The Equalizer" and see if I can repeat it.
Ok...ready to enter the Twilight Zone? Because I had the _9999.sup file that does contain the forced subs, I decided to make an MKV using the BD 25 that did not contain the forced subs as the input for the Alternate output. I have all the tools to get the forced sub into MKV. Much to my surprise, the resulting MKV now had one more subtitle, the forced subs! Where the heck did that come from? When I did a mediainfo on the BDRB created Movie only BD25 it shows only the 2 English subs that were not the forced subs. The same process does not have the same results doing Alternate to MP4.

[jdobbs]

Ok...ready to enter the Twilight Zone? Because I had the _9999.sup file that does contain the forced subs, I decided to make an MKV using the BD 25 that did not contain the forced subs as the input for the Alternate output. I have all the tools to get the forced sub into MKV. Much to my surprise, the resulting MKV now had one more subtitle, the forced subs! Where the heck did that come from? When I did a mediainfo on the BDRB created Movie only BD25 it shows only the 2 English subs that were not the forced subs. The same process does not have the same results doing Alternate to MP4.When you made the MKV against that disc, the forced subtitles were probably extracted from one of the two streams you had. A forced subtitle is simply a regular subtitle within a complete stream that has the "forced" flag set.

The reason BD-RB extracts it to _9999.SUP is because for some reason the TSMUXER mux doesn't seem to work on the forced subtitles. So BD-RB puts them into a stream of their own and then turns them on automatically (by command sequence) when the disc starts.

[CV91913]

When you made the MKV against that disc, the forced subtitles were probably extracted from one of the two streams you had. A forced subtitle is simply a regular subtitle within a complete stream that has the "forced" flag set.

The reason BD-RB extracts it to _9999.SUP is because for some reason the TSMUXER mux doesn't seem to work on the forced subtitles. So BD-RB puts them into a stream of their own and then turns them on automatically (by command sequence) when the disc starts.
Ok, I kinda figured that. It looks like output to MKV is the only thing that seems to sorta work. It did not set the forced flag for that 3rd sub but I just used mkvmerge and set it forced. Worked fine. Then, because I am a glutton for punishment, I used that MKV as input and did alternate output to Mp4. I just marked that sub as "Forced On" and the resulting Mp4 had the sub burned in. Would it have burned in the sub, if I had not set the sub in in the stream settings, just based on the sub having it's forced flag on?

[Capsbackup]

I can confirm there is a problem with the forced subs being hard coded to mp4 for this movie, The Equalizer. Even though there is a subtitle 00002.track_9999 created by BD-RB and the VID_00002avs has:
"LoadPlugin("...\SupTitle.dll") SupTitle("...\00002.track_9999.sup")", no actual hard coded subs are present in the completed mp4!


EDIT:
This movie has multi-m2ts files, starting with VID_00002 through VID_00011. The VID_00002avs has the above mentioned Suptitle within it, but the actual 00002.m2ts does not contain the actual forced subs for that movie. The forced subs are present in 00004.m2ts and 00005.m2ts. However, the VID_00004avs and VID_00005avs created by BD-RB does not contain the "LoadPlugin("...\SupTitle.dll") SupTitle("...\00004.track_9999.sup")" or LoadPlugin("...\SupTitle.dll") SupTitle("...\00005.track_9999.sup")".
So even though BD-RB recognizes this movie has forced subtitles, it does not load the necessary plugin and call in the correct avs files it creates!

This problem is not present on a single m2ts main movie authored Bluray, only multi-m2ts titles.

[jdobbs]

Ok. I tested "The Equalizer" and saw the same result. It helped me pick out a couple of issues related to forced subs.

It has been fixed for the next release.

[Capsbackup]

Ok. I tested "The Equalizer" and saw the same result. It helped me pick out a couple of issues related to forced subs.

It has been fixed for the next release.

Excellent! Hope my input helped. :)

[CV91913]

Ok. I tested "The Equalizer" and saw the same result. It helped me pick out a couple of issues related to forced subs.

It has been fixed for the next release.
Great! Looking forward to the next release. Thanks.

[jdobbs]

Excellent! Hope my input helped. :)Well... I tested my fix. It needs some more work. :o You might say it was "less than successful". I'll be back on it tomorrow.

[Capsbackup]

Well... I tested my fix. It needs some more work. :o You might say it was "less than successful". I'll be back on it tomorrow.

Never a doubt here, I'm quite sure of your resolve! ;)

Converting to a movie only single m2ts will correct the timing issues of the forced subtitles that are present in multi-m2ts files. Perhaps something similar as you do with the audio on multi-m2ts movie only/alternate output? This worked for me. :)

[jdobbs]

Yeah. The problem now is that I pull all the subtitles into a single .SUP file -- but the different segments are encoded individually. Ughh... when I wrote the original code all the M2TS files were combined at mux, so a single SUP was fine. But you can't do that when you need to hardcode the subtitles into the encoded video with SupTitle.

It shouldn't be too hard to fix -- just a little time-consuming to make the changes and then having to test a lot of code to make sure it doesn't introduce new problems.

[Capsbackup]

Well at least you have found the fix... :thanks:

[Mark_Venture]

jdobbs, Glad you found some options and ideas!!

Just as a follow up.. I deleted my BD-Rebuilder folder, unzipped 50.02 and manually set it back up, again selecting where my suptitle.dll is.

I ran Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. Forced subtitles are burned in (I see them when playing the MKV with Windows Media Player which doesn't show PGS subs in an MKV, or SRTs), but some stick on the screen (which reflects an issue you guys noticed and already posted in this thread), so that is a good sign.

Question, there is a PGS sub title included in the MKV. Should it be all subs or just the forced ones? When playing with VLC and selecting this subtitle track, it appears to be blank. It only shows those burned in.

But at least opening that PGS with SubTitle Edit (https://github.com/SubtitleEdit/subtitleedit/releases/tag/3.4.5) shows it does contain both forced and non-forced english subs which is kind of what i expected.

[jdobbs]

Does VLC support PGS subtitles? I know MPC-HC does (that's what I use), but I don't know about other players. Many of them only support text-based subs. That's the reason you have to burn them in. For example, DLNA via my Sony BD player doesn't support PGS subs -- so I have to burn-in the forced subtitles.

I haven't looked at the problem with subtitles that stick yet. Honestly, it appears to be a problem with the source's stream... and it bothers me that I have to create a workaround.

[Mark_Venture]

Does VLC support PGS subtitles? I know MPC-HC does (that's what I use), but I don't know about other players. Many of them only support text-based subs. That's the reason you have to burn them in. For example, DLNA via my Sony BD player doesn't support PGS subs -- so I have to burn-in the forced subtitles.Yup. It does. That is how I've done quick tests to make sure the PGS subs are right. It also recognizes Forced vs non-forced flags.

Right, DLNA doesn't support PGS, at least not when I used Serviio with my Sony TV's. My old LG Bluray players could natively play MKVs (just accessing the windows file share without needing a DLNA or other server) but couldn't deal with PGS subs, I always needed external .SRT files.

I'm really leaning towards these Fire TV's as the players in the other rooms, espeically how SPMC (XBMC fork) is working with the MKV's that BD-Rebuilder outputs!!
I haven't looked at the problem with subtitles that stick yet. Honestly, it appears to be a problem with the source's stream... and it bothers me that I have to create a workaround.
Yeah, not sure why it does that. You don't HAVE too... unless its impacting you personally. I completely understand if its not fixable.

Its funny, with the burned in subtitles in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes... The first few subtitles are fine, go off when they should. Its just the ones further into the movie.

If not using suptitle to burn in, it still works correctly to give the FORCED subtitles in their own PGS in the MKV, and flagged as Forced (or at least select-able), then I may end up just buying Fire TV's (next time they go on sale) to replace all my players.

I'm still looking into the best way to use an alternate remote.

[jdobbs]

Yup. It does. That is how I've done quick tests to make sure the PGS subs are right. It also recognizes Forced vs non-forced flags.

Right, DLNA doesn't support PGS, at least not when I used Serviio with my Sony TV's. My old LG Bluray players could natively play MKVs (just accessing the windows file share without needing a DLNA or other server) but couldn't deal with PGS subs, I always needed external .SRT files.

I'm really leaning towards these Fire TV's as the players in the other rooms, espeically how SPMC (XBMC fork) is working with the MKV's that BD-Rebuilder outputs!!

Yeah, not sure why it does that. You don't HAVE too... unless its impacting you personally. I completely understand if its not fixable.

Its funny, with the burned in subtitles in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes... The first few subtitles are fine, go off when they should. Its just the ones further into the movie.

If not using suptitle to burn in, it still works correctly to give the FORCED subtitles in their own PGS in the MKV, and flagged as Forced (or at least select-able), then I may end up just buying Fire TV's (next time they go on sale) to replace all my players.

I'm still looking into the best way to use an alternate remote.Do the forced PGS subtitles that aren't burned-in go off at the right time?

I don't know much about Fire TV. What makes it special?

[Mark_Venture]

Do the forced PGS subtitles that aren't burned-in go off at the right time?

I don't know much about Fire TV. What makes it special?It appears the PGS subs stay on also (when playing via SPMC on my Fire TV)... I can tell thanks to a bug in SPMC on the Fire TV (http://trac.kodi.tv/ticket/15146) (its apparently been fixed in XBMC/KODI, just not back ported into SPMC yet) where the PGS subs are displayed in Cyan... When on, they over lap the burned in (yellow) subs.

As Capsbackup mentioned in post#37, the subtitle that shows around the 48 minute mark gets stuck on longer than it should.

As for the Fire TV... I'm not sure if its special, but using SPMC (fork of XBMC/Kodi) (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201783) on Fire TV fulfills my needs.. 1. be able to access network/windows shared folder directly, 2. play the MKV's BD-rebuilder makes as-is without having to convert/transcode/re-encode, etc. (i.e. no DLNA needed), 3. Can handle subtitles (either external SRT, or internal PGS).

I posted more details in this thread -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1701647#post1701647

[jdobbs]

Yeah. The problem now is that I pull all the subtitles into a single .SUP file -- but the different segments are encoded individually. Ughh... when I wrote the original code all the M2TS files were combined at mux, so a single SUP was fine. But you can't do that when you need to hardcode the subtitles into the encoded video with SupTitle.

It shouldn't be too hard to fix -- just a little time-consuming to make the changes and then having to test a lot of code to make sure it doesn't introduce new problems.Ok. It works now for multipart sources. I had to modify it so the subtitles for each part are extracted individually and scanned for forced. It'll be in the next release.

[CV91913]

Yeah. The problem now is that I pull all the subtitles into a single .SUP file -- but the different segments are encoded individually. Ughh... when I wrote the original code all the M2TS files were combined at mux, so a single SUP was fine. But you can't do that when you need to hardcode the subtitles into the encoded video with SupTitle.

It shouldn't be too hard to fix -- just a little time-consuming to make the changes and then having to test a lot of code to make sure it doesn't introduce new problems.
I just tested The Equalizer with your latest release and all is well. I even did an Alternate Output to MP4 and the forced subs are burned in. Great job!

[Mark_Venture]

Just to follow up... 50.03 fixed the forced Subtitle issue I was having with Avatar Extended Collector Edition. They are now being burned in as expected.

I haven't tried with any others yet.

[jdobbs]

Great. Thanks for testing it.

[Mark_Venture]

As expected the bug is still there on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. The stuck on sub.

Also, there are problems with Taken. It burns subs in, but they are not the forced subs, and not at the right times.

[jdobbs]

As expected the bug is still there on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. The stuck on sub.

Also, there are problems with Taken. It burns subs in, but they are not the forced subs, and not at the right times.I don't think so. BD-RB does not burn subs that aren't marked as forced. You may not think they are marked as forced -- but they have to be. The times are pulled directly from the stream -- so if they are wrong, they have to also be wrong in the stream being used.

[Mark_Venture]

I don't think so. BD-RB does not burn subs that aren't marked as forced. You may not think they are marked as forced -- but they have to be. The times are pulled directly from the stream -- so if they are wrong, they have to also be wrong in the stream being used.You're right. When I bring the disc up in BD-RB, it shows 4 English subtitles... When I encode without "use SupTitle" selected, and playback in VLC, there are now 6 in the MKV file. So I'm guessing the extra two were the ones flagged as forced (since the default is MKV_MUXSUPS=1)?

Playing in VLC, Subtitle track 6 is the correct forced subs. (and the forced found with Subtitle Edit). What I see as Track 3 playing this way is what got burned in before.

So it may be flagged wrong on the original disc, but at least BD-RB is muxing the proper forced subs when I don't have "use suptitle" selected.

Its interesting as using HD-DVD/Bluray Stream Extractor (https://code.google.com/p/hdbrstreamextractor/downloads/list) (front end to eac3to) to pull out the English subs, then opening each in Subtitle Edit (http://www.nikse.dk/SubtitleEdit/) (how I always made SRT files before) I was only able to find one that the "show only forced" option wasn't grayed out (which is why I thought there is only 1 forced sub). And those subs didn't match what was burned in.

Other than knowing the correct subtitle that contains the real forced, there is no way in BD-RB to select which gets fed to SupTitle to get burned in, right?

[jdobbs]

Sometimes there are forced subtitles in more than one language. You can use the hidden option FORCED_SUB_LANG to set a priority order -- so BD-RB can choose which to use.

BD-RB will extract the forced portion of the selected language and create a separate .SUP file that contains just those. If "use suptitle" is selected during ALTERNATE output, then that stream will be hard-coded. If normal "movie-only" mode is set, then that stream will be muxed into the M2TS and it will be defaulted "on". BD-RB never creates more than one additional stream -- and that one contains the selected language's forced subtitles.

During processing you can see the new .SUP file in the WORKING folder. It will be the one that contains "99999" in it's name.

[Mark_Venture]

Sometimes there are forced subtitles in more than one language. You can use the hidden option FORCED_SUB_LANG to set a priority order -- so BD-RB can choose which to use.In this case, the "forced" sub that got burned in was "background info" about the making of the film, in English.

So both sets of forced subs are in English.
BD-RB will extract the forced portion of the selected language and create a separate .SUP file that contains just those. If "use suptitle" is selected during ALTERNATE output, then that stream will be hard-coded. If normal "movie-only" mode is set, then that stream will be muxed into the M2TS and it will be defaulted "on". BD-RB never creates more than one additional stream -- and that one contains the selected language's forced subtitles.Since you say it never creates more than one additional, I wonder why I got two extra PGS streams in the MKV compared to what BD-RB showed before I started processing. (when using movie only, and "use suptitle" wasn't selected)

During processing you can see the new .SUP file in the WORKING folder. It will be the one that contains "99999" in it's name.I'll have to run it again and see what that SUP is.

Sorry, Just trying to understand this, so I thought i knew how its supposed to work, but on this disc it didn't do what I expected.

[jdobbs]

1. If you have two sets of forced subs in the same language, BD-RB will select the first one (by PID) -- there's really no way to distinguish which is the preferred one.

2. It's possible that the muxer (MKVMERGE) also pulls out the forced subs and creates an extra stream for them. But since many players won't play the PGS subs -- defaulting them on has no effect -- which is why you have to hard-code them. If the muxer pulling them out isn't the case, it may be just how the player presents them. I'm not positive.