How to preserve subtitle position and font?

[lowlyfme]

I used Subtitle Workshop to create and time the subtitles, along with choosing the position and font. However, when I used DVDFlick to convert and all the necessary steps, the final DVD result had put the subtitles back towards the very bottom of the screen and the font had lost the italics. What can I do to preserve my subtitle's font and position? I was recommended to use MaestroSBT and Muxman to do so, but I've been told it's a challenge to get the hang of it. Any other recommendations? It may just be that DVDFlick can't do those things, or it could be something else... I don't know. I'm new to all of this. If I have to save the subtitles in a different format that's fine, as long as I can find a free DVD authoring program that can work with it. Are there any programs or software that will save and preserve my subtitle settings before I softsub them onto my ending result, the DVD?

[foxyshadis]

Give EasySUP (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=149160) a go, you can import its SUB tracks into DVDFlick. DVDFlick doesn't convert from formatted subtitles well.

[lowlyfme]

It doesn't like the output. It says that it can only work with textual subtitles, not graphical subtitles. Thanks for the recommendation though. It was always worth a shot.

[TheSkiller]

EasySUP is basically a one-in-all GUI for the avs2bdnxml + BDSup2Sub workflow I described in the other thread. It's purpose is to create bitmap based subtitles (such as IDX+SUB, and SUP) from text, so of course it requires text based input.


You really need to decide now whether you are going for hard or soft subtitles. ;)
For hard subtitles you only need to save your subtitles in ASS format and then use VSFilter to draw it onto your video.

[lowlyfme]

EasySUP is basically a one-in-all GUI for the avs2bdnxml + BDSup2Sub workflow I described in the other thread. It's purpose is to create bitmap based subtitles (such as IDX+SUB, and SUP) from text, so of course it requires text based input.


You really need to decide now whether you are going for hard or soft subtitles. ;)
For hard subtitles you only need to save your subtitles in ASS format and then use VSFilter to draw it onto your video.

My mistake. I meant DVDFLick couldn't work with the files created by EasySUP, not EasySUP. I tried to see if I could find any DVDauthoring programs that could work with those types of files (PNG, IDX, SUP...etc) and I couldn't find anything.
I think softsubbing is my best option since hardsubbing will cause mosquito noise.

[TheSkiller]

I tried to see if I could find any DVDauthoring programs that could work with those types of files (PNG, IDX, SUP...etc) and I couldn't find anything.GUIforDVDauthor for example works with SUP. IfoEdit and Muxman also support SUP, albeit those do not let you create menus. However, as manono suggested in the other thread you can use anything you want to create the menus (if you need any) and then just "patch" the resulting DVD structure with a Muxman or IfoEdit one which contrains your subtitles.


I think softsubbing is my best option since hardsubbing will cause mosquito noise.Not ultimately. Have you read my post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1688504#post1688504) in the other thread?

[Ghitulescu]

It's not an easy task to do what you intended to do.

You can use Subtitle Creator, but it outputs subtitles that cannot be seen correctly on all players.

You can use MaestroSBT, but you may have issues with diacritics (unicode etc) - particularly important if you're not anglo-saxon.

You can use EasySUP

You can use AviAddXsub - but you cannot mix ANSI codes (eg Japanese and Greek).

[lowlyfme]

GUIforDVDauthor for example works with SUP. IfoEdit and Muxman also support SUP, albeit those do not let you create menus. However, as manono suggested in the other thread you can use anything you want to create the menus (if you need any) and then just "patch" the resulting DVD structure with a Muxman or IfoEdit one which contrains your subtitles.


Not ultimately. Have you read my post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1688504#post1688504) in the other thread?


I've read it...I'm just trying to understand haha. So many different recommendations for so many different things, and each of those things having abilities and disabilities. I'm so confused!

With high bitrates and a soft edge on the text borders ("\be1" tag in ASS script) it's not going to be an issue.

How do I go about making sure I have high bitrates and a soft edge on the text borders? You mentioned ("\be1" tag in ASS script). What is that? What steps do I need to take to soften the text borders? Is what you mentioned something I add on to something, or what?

As long as the DVD will automatically play the subtitles without the menu, having a menu won't be a concern. I just want subtitles in a certain position and italics in certain areas. Can GUI do that or work with that? Another thing, Do certain subtitles has pros and cons? I don't necessarily have to work with .ass or .ssa format if it's going to be a pain. I could always re-save the subs in a different format. But I do want to make sure that the subtitle format I save in is able to retain or transfer position and occasional italic font. Is that nothing to do with the actual format? Is transfering and preserving those things a matter of the DVD authoring program, or could the format I save the subtitles in cause me to lose the subtitle positioning and font? Sorry if I'm causing a headache...I'm just trying to understand since I am a noob with a majority of computer functions and computer-talk haha.

I'll try and start from the top. So, could I 1) use avs2bdnxml and BDSup2Sub to get the necessary subtitle format and images 2) use those afterproducts in GUIforDVD author to add and 3) alter the subtitles (position and font) and 4) also use GUI for the authoring? Plus, will I have to convert the MKV files to MPEG-2 beforehand, or can GUI do that as well? Once I have made the SUP format, do I just use GUIforDVD to load/open that file? Or do I have to do something to the subtitle outputs before I can use them with GUI (such as make it so they are formed into one file or something like that)?
If not, what steps will I now need to take to sub, since you think it might still be possible to hardsub without the mosquito sound? What program or software would you recommend to 1) convert the subtitles to the necessary format 2) use to work with the converted subtitle format files for positioning and font 3) use for dvd authoring that can preserve the subtitle settings? How do I go about saving and transferring my subtitle settings into a DVD authoring program? I know some of them don't preserve such settings, but for the ones that do...how do I go about transfering those settings to the DVD authoring program?

[TheSkiller]

So many different recommendations for so many different things, and each of those things having abilities and disabilities. I'm so confused!Understandably; handling subtitles and making a DVD aren't exactly easy tasks, especially not for a beginner.


How do I go about making sure I have high bitrates and a soft edge on the text borders? You mentioned ("\be1" tag in ASS script). What is that?It's a so called tag which alters a single subtitle. In this case it tells whatever draws the subtitles later to soften the border a bit. This is used in Aegisub subtitle scripts (*.ass).

High bitrate... you make sure to use as much space on your DVD as possible. If you are going for a standard single layer DVD (called DVD5) you have 4.37 GiB to spare (GiB = binary Gigabytes, confusingly usually labeled "GB").
The bitrate is what defines the size of the resulting MPEG2 video – the bigger the better the quality (that's simplified but just remember that). Too low of a bitrate provokes compression artefacts (more about that later).


Another thing, Do certain subtitles has pros and cons? I don't necessarily have to work with .ass or .ssa format if it's going to be a pain.
I highly recommend sticking with ASS. SSA is an older variant of it and should only be used if particularly needed. SRT (also called Subrip) is the most basic subtitle script format and does not support any more advanced formattings – italics is about the most it can do so avoid it. So use ASS whenever you're saving your subtitles (text based).


What steps do I need to take to soften the text borders? Is what you mentioned something I add on to something, or what?Tags are added in brackets to a subtitle. They do not show up later. Here is an example.

I'm a subtitle without any tags.
{\be1}I'm a subtitle with a slightly blurred outline.

You said you use Subtitle Workshop to format the subtitles. I'm not too familiar with it but it should allow you to save in ASS format which is good.


Can GUI do that or work with that?GUIforDVDauthor, like most authoring programs, just takes what you feed it and compiles everything without altering it. So yes, it will retain anything that is in the SUP you create.

However, if you're going to make hard subs you don't need all of that (except the ASS script). All you need is your script in ASS format to draw it onto the video and then encode to MPEG2.


Your following questions are about soft subs, so keep in mind you don't need most of that if you're going for hard subs.

So, could I 1) use avs2bdnxml and BDSup2Sub to get the necessary subtitle format and images 2) use those afterproducts in GUIforDVD authorYes to both.

3) alter the subtitles (position and font) and 4) also use GUI for the authoring?No and yes. After the subtitles are transformed from text into bitmaps you cannot alter them anymore (well, you could with an image editing program, but you don't want that). You do the formatting before transforming them into bitmaps (which step 1 does).

Plus, will I have to convert the MKV files to MPEG-2 beforehand, or can GUI do that as well?You have to do this beforehand.

Once I have made the SUP format, do I just use GUIforDVD to load/open that file?Yes.


If not, what steps will I now need to take to sub, since you think it might still be possible to hardsub without the mosquito sound?Mosquito noise is a video artefact (noise in the meaning of "error", not sound). Sound is not affected. Have a look at Wikipedia: Mosquito noise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_artifact#Images).

[lowlyfme]

I highly recommend sticking with ASS.

Ok, will do.



Tags are added in brackets to a subtitle. They do not show up later. Here is an example.

I'm a subtitle without any tags.
{\be1}I'm a subtitle with a slightly blurred outline.[QUOTE]

SO, I would apply that suggested tag (for soft edges) to each subtitle, or just one of them?

[QUOTE=TheSkiller;1688612]You said you use Subtitle Workshop to format the subtitles. I'm not too familiar with it but it should allow you to save in ASS format which is good. [QUOTE]

Yes, Subtitle Workshop let's you choose from a large variety of formats. I just happened to choose .ass and I guess it's a good thing I did.

[QUOTE=TheSkiller;1688612]However, if you're going to make hard subs you don't need all of that (except the ASS script). All you need is your script in ASS format to draw it onto the video and then encode to MPEG2.
So, you mentioned for hardsubbing I just have to use VSfilter to drag the .ass file onto the video, right? How do I do that? I thought after I installed VSfilter, I'd have to open it or something? But there doesn't appear to be anything to open after installing. Is it just something that is ready and waiting to run in the background or what? I thought you meant I had to open VSFilter and then open the video, then attach the .ass file to be on or next to it. Can you explain what you meant by that?

When I save the .ass file in Subtitle Workshop, are those settings (position and font style) actually included somewhere in the .ass text? I see it mentions the font I chose, so I'm assuming yes?

After I've successully hardsubbed the video, then I just use a compatible DVD authoring program, correct? Just want to confirm I'm understanding you correctly before I attempt anything ;)