What tools to copy Hd-dvd in 2014 ?

[jdryyz]

Ahh! I was only going by the "screenshots" I saw for the release version. Looks like I am going to be able to stick with 8.8.0 though.

I found the frame rate selection under "timecodes..." The option to change is called "Default duration/FPS". I see there is a 24p setting also. How would that differ from 24000/1001p?


No, it lets the choice between the old (mmg.exe) and the new (mkvtoolnix-gui.exe) GUI.


Select 24/1001 as framerate (fps).

[jdryyz]

I see now that 24000/1001p is the better option. It provides 23.9 vs 24 fps with the other setting.

However, I am now confused. I am seeing choppy playback with my software players now that this has changed. Perhaps the HD-DVD was not at 23.9 fps to begin with? It is film, not video.

I guess I will have to keep testing this out with other discs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I found the frame rate selection under "timecodes..." The option to change is called "Default duration/FPS". I see there is a 24p setting also. How would that differ from 24000/1001p?
Given that the video streams actual frame rate is already embedded within the original video stream, there should be no requirement for you to select a 'frame-rate' in MKVmerge GUI...

[jdryyz]

I tend to agree, except that I was surprised to see a 29.99fps rate for film content when playing back the rips using software and my Oppo BDP-93. Since I tried changing the frame rate to what I thought it should be (23.9) resulted in choppy playback I can only assume the discs I have ripped so far are sourced at 29.99 but that does not seem right if HD-DVDs are following standards for film-based content. Perhaps this was never part of the spec?

Now that I think of it more, HD-DVD is supposed to be just a hi-def extension of the DVD format and DVD never offered 24fps playback either as far as I know. A quick look at Wikipedia would seem to confirm this:

"Both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc support the 24p frame rate, but technical implementations of this mode are different among the two formats. Blu-ray Disc supports 24p with its native timing, while HD DVD uses 60i timing for 24p (replacing missing frames with "repeat field flags")"

So I will leave the frame rates alone!

Given that the video streams actual frame rate is already embedded within the original video stream, there should be no requirement for you to select a 'frame-rate' in MKVmerge GUI...

[jdryyz]

I have a couple more items to cover:

1) Playback of the .mkv files from my Oppo BDP-93 seems to work just fine. I even see TrueHD audio being identified. Although, I swear the title I ripped only had Dolby Digital +. Either there is some translation going on with MKVmerge or this is just how the Oppo 93 identifies the audio in this case.

Unfortunately, playback from my Oppo BDP-83 is not working out as well. I realize the 83's DLNA media playback capabilities are limited but I do have plenty of compatible .mkv files already in my collection, most of which I made using HandBrake.

What happens is the video is squished horizontally and there is no audio at all. The audio part is not too surprising but I did not expect a video problem like this. Perhaps there are some other adjustments I can make in MKVmerge or another remuxer I can try?

The Oppo 83 is my main player (for my Home Theater) not the Oppo 93 (long story) so it would be great if I can create .mkv files it does like.

2) How does one join multiple .EVO files to make one main feature .mkv? I thought I could just add more than one file in MKVmerge but it did not join them.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I tend to agree, except that I was surprised to see a 29.99fps rate for film content when playing back the rips using software and my Oppo BDP-93. Since I tried changing the frame rate to what I thought it should be (23.9) resulted in choppy playback I can only assume the discs I have ripped so far are sourced at 29.99 but that does not seem right if HD-DVDs are following standards for film-based content. Perhaps this was never part of the spec?
You've just reminded me that the (AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2) video stream (as used by the HD-DVD format) contains something called '3:2 pull-down'.

Sadly, MKVmerge GUI does not offer a tool to remove pull-down but the good news is an application called TSmuxerGUI (v2.6.12) does ;)


Cheers

[jdryyz]

Great! I already have tsMusxer installed for other reasons (one of which is ClownBD).

So I start with my ripped HD-DVD source, demux in tsMuxer with remove pulldown selected, then remux into .mvk with MKVmerge. The resulting .mkv file is now a proper 23.976 fps.

Playback is smooth with software players and Oppo BDP-93, still trouble with the 83. Sigh.

I also saw that in tsMuxer I can join files. This appears to be able to solve the problem of the HD-DVD main feature being split into two parts. Unfortunately, the resulting .mkv file has audio of of sync. Maybe there's a better solution to join .EVO files.

You've just reminded me that the (AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2) video stream (as used by the HD-DVD format) contains something called '3:2 pull-down'.

Sadly, MKVmerge GUI does not offer a tool to remove pull-down but the good news is an application called TSmuxerGUI (v2.6.12) does ;)


Cheers

[Music Fan]

You've just reminded me that the (AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2) video stream (as used by the HD-DVD format) contains something called '3:2 pull-down'.

Sadly, MKVmerge GUI does not offer a tool to remove pull-down but the good news is an application called TSmuxerGUI (v2.6.12) does ;)


Cheers
And also eac3to IIRC. HdBrStreamExtractor (a GUI for eac3to) also removes pulldown flag (IIRC, again, I forgot how I did exactly).

[jdryyz]

So the framerate problem has been licked and I will just have to stick with core audio formats in .mkv files if I expect them to work with the Oppo 83, but I still have not figured out the horizontal squeeze. I know the problem exists in the source and is carried through to BD structures I create with ClownBD. I tried using MakeMKV on a BD .iso I made and the .mkv it saved is squished horizontally. I am thinking it might be a 16:9 flag that is needed (since HD-DVD closely resembles the DVD spec) and the process of converting to BD does not provide the requirement. I tested a real BD that I ripped in the past and created an MKV using MakeMKV and the Oppo 83 had no trouble with it.

I see that both MKVmerge and tsMuxer have aspect ratio settings. I did some tests by picking the 16/9 setting and the resulting files were still squished. Maybe this is the correct place to look but I am just not picking the right setting?

[foxyshadis]

What is the actual physical resolution reported by MediaInfo? If it's already 1920x1080 then maybe it's actually hardcoded that way, and needs an even higher ratio. And have you tested with a PC player, to double-check?

[jdryyz]

I do not recall what resolutions are being reported. I will check out MediaInfo and see what the software players say.

I also discovered that the Oppo BDP-83 is not the only hardware having a problem with the HDDVD-sourced .mkv files. My Sony BDP-S790 will not play them at all. It calls them an "unsupported format". The Sony plays all my other .mkv files just fine.


What is the actual physical resolution reported by MediaInfo? If it's already 1920x1080 then maybe it's actually hardcoded that way, and needs an even higher ratio. And have you tested with a PC player, to double-check?

[jdryyz]

MediaInfo reports 1920x1080 (16:9) for both BD sourced and HDDVD sourced files. Did not see anything else unusual.

[SeeMoreDigital]

MediaInfo reports 1920x1080 (16:9) for both BD sourced and HDDVD source files. Did not see anything else unusual.Can you post what MediaInfo reports in full as a 'text' file?

[jdryyz]

Okay, here you go:

The first two have the horizontal squeeze, the last one is a .mkv re-encode from a MakeMKV file derived from a BD, not HD-DVD. It plays back fine.

Thought the variable frame rate in the first might have something to do with it, but the second one is constant and still has the squeeze. Oh, and I realize the first is at 29.99 fps but that does not matter for this particular problem.


~~~~~~~
General
Unique ID : 250225554815635423140436313209546506575 (0xBC3FB05AE6928364B2C3EE6D41E4814F)
Complete name : F:\Share\firewall.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 10.5 GiB
Duration : 1h 44mn
Overall bit rate : 14.4 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2016-02-03 01:07:49
Writing application : mkvmerge v8.8.0 ('Wind at my back') 64bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.3 + libmatroska v1.4.4
DURATION : 01:44:52.112000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 393257
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 503368960
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : mkvmerge v8.8.0 ('Wind at my back') 64bit
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 01:07:49
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES

Video
ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Codec ID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Bit rate : 13.4 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Original frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : E-AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_EAC3
Duration : 1h 44mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 480 MiB (4%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

General
Unique ID : 181329561948503471819148980586061223488 (0x886ACDA61CC747C3ECAADDCD92E7D640)
Complete name : F:\MakeMKV\liar liar.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 10.1 GiB
Duration : 1h 26mn
Overall bit rate : 16.7 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2016-02-03 21:17:08
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.9.9 (1.3.3/1.4.4) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Codec ID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate : 15.7 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.316
Stream size : 9.49 GiB (94%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:26:29.851333333
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 124432
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 10404202047
SOURCE_ID : 001011
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 21:17:08
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 396 MiB (4%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:26:29.856000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 162183
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 415188480
SOURCE_ID : 001100
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 21:17:08
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:13:41.445 : en:Chapter 02
00:18:46.208 : en:Chapter 03
00:20:10.918 : en:Chapter 04
00:22:29.848 : en:Chapter 05
00:26:34.050 : en:Chapter 06
00:32:59.394 : en:Chapter 07
00:38:16.085 : en:Chapter 08
00:41:59.058 : en:Chapter 09
00:45:52.583 : en:Chapter 10
00:49:24.878 : en:Chapter 11
00:53:10.729 : en:Chapter 12
00:57:07.757 : en:Chapter 13
01:11:07.846 : en:Chapter 14
01:16:03.725 : en:Chapter 15
01:20:40.460 : en:Chapter 16

General
Unique ID : 253010721971805002778354871318460252966 (0xBE5817B2A51170B31327FB4D6DF44326)
Complete name : F:\Share\Sinbad.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 16.9 GiB
Duration : 1h 52mn
Overall bit rate : 21.4 Mbps
Movie name : Sinbad
Encoded date : UTC
Writing application : HandBrake 0.10.2 2015060900
Writing library : Lavf55.12.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate : 20.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 038 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.419
Stream size : 15.4 GiB (91%)
Writing library : x264 core 142 r2479 dd79a61
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=20000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.19 GiB (7%)
Title : Surround
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Menu
00:00:00.000 : :Chapter 1
00:05:49.390 : :Chapter 2
00:13:30.518 : :Chapter 3
00:23:15.686 : :Chapter 4
00:31:28.761 : :Chapter 5
00:40:57.329 : :Chapter 6
00:51:02.476 : :Chapter 7
01:02:41.507 : :Chapter 8
01:15:43.831 : :Chapter 9
01:27:07.514 : :Chapter 10
01:37:20.543 : :Chapter 11
01:51:59.879 : :Chapter 12

[SeeMoreDigital]

The first two have the horizontal squeeze...
Thanks for the MediaInfo file reports...

As I suspected, the files you are having issues with have been encoded using VC-1 (instead of AVC) video.

By-the-way, the video stream on your Sinbad.mkv file has not been directly extracted from a disc. It's been re-encoded!

[jdryyz]

Yes, that is correct. Not surprising given that most HD-DVDs in my collection are in the VC-1 format. That was a standard encoding method at the time before AVC became the preferred choice. Could that alone be why my old Oppo 83 is having trouble or is something else to blame? The Oppo 83 has no trouble playing VC-1 encoded Blu-Ray discs.

Correct also on the last report. I threw that in there as an example of what most of my collection consists of that the 83 handles without fail.

Below is a real BD rip using MakeMKV: (the Oppo 83 does not squeeze it)


General
Unique ID : 294712748138204157882486592428796954220 (0xDDB79C546C71E1BAC31B3960FF7E466C)
Complete name : D:\MakeMKV\Sinbad.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 29.9 GiB
Duration : 1h 52mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 37.9 Mbps
Movie name : Sinbad
Encoded date : UTC 2016-02-03 22:09:10
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.9.9 (1.3.3/1.4.4) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 34.2 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 38.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.687
Stream size : 27.0 GiB (90%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:52:59.814708333
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 162553
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 29559028354
SOURCE_ID : 001011
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.19 GiB (4%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:52:59.818666666
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 635608
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 1278843296
SOURCE_ID : 001100
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.19 GiB (4%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:52:59.818666666
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 635608
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 1278843296
SOURCE_ID : 001101
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Text
ID : 4
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:50:58.506020833
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 1975
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 31614898
SOURCE_ID : 001200
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:05:49.182 : en:Chapter 02
00:13:30.392 : en:Chapter 03
00:23:15.560 : en:Chapter 04
00:31:28.636 : en:Chapter 05
00:40:57.121 : en:Chapter 06
00:51:02.350 : en:Chapter 07
01:02:41.299 : en:Chapter 08
01:15:43.705 : en:Chapter 09
01:27:07.305 : en:Chapter 10
01:37:20.417 : en:Chapter 11
01:51:59.671 : en:Chapter 12



Thanks for the MediaInfo file reports...

As I suspected, the files you are having issues with have been encoded using VC-1 (instead of AVC) video.

By-the-way, the video stream on your Sinbad.mkv file has not been directly extracted from a disc. It's been re-encoded!

[jdryyz]

Well what do you know. I see that I have around four HD-DVDs that contain AVC encodes. I completed a ClownBD conversion of one of them and then ripped to .MKV. Sure enough, it plays back fine on the Oppo 83.

So that's it then? No way to get the VC-1s in an .mkv container to play nice with the 83?

I still haven't tested what an actual burned disc will do....still hesitant to waste a good BD, but I know I have commercial Blu Ray discs with VC-1 encodes in my collection that play fine.

[SeeMoreDigital]

So that's it then? No way to get the VC-1s in an .mkv container to play nice with the 83?That I don't know, as I'm not familiar with the Oppo BDP-83. I can however confirm that extracted VC-1 video streams within .mkv play fine on the Oppo BDP-10x range of players.

One other thing you could try is re-muxing the extracted VC-1 video stream into the .m2ts container (using TSmuxerGUI). Obviously you'll loose chapter navigation but it would be interesting to know if the same VC-1 video stream is displayed at the correct aspect ratio on your BDP-83 ;)

[Music Fan]

I also have the Oppo 83 and it plays VC1.
The variable framerate in your MediaInfo report is not normal.
As I said above, you should try HdBrStreamExtractor to extract audio, video and subtitles ; it will join EVOs and will remove the VC1 pulldown flag. For the subtitles, you can use BDSup2Sub to convert to BDSup (then make OCR if you need srt, Subtitle Edit does it well).
Then make mkv, ts or AVCHD.
Personally, I always make AVCHDs with TSMuxer because it allows 2 things on the 83 :
- output 24hz as is without 3:2 pulldown conversion (what he does with mkv and all files)
- play movies bigger than 4 GB on a FAT32 partition (don't forget to split at 4 GB in TSMuxer, cuts will be invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure).
As there is no re-encoding, this is very fast.
For the ratio, there is nothing special to do with 1980*1080, just let it as is, it's square pixel encoding thus the PAR is 1:1 (because SAR = DAR with square pixel encodings), don't add 16/9 PAR.

[jdryyz]

The Oppo BDP-9x also has no trouble. :)

I will give the .m2ts container a try. Chapter selection over DLNA on the 83 is not supported with anything I currently have so it will not be missed. I do want to see the playback progression, however. This is lost sometimes with certain files and when transcoding.


That I don't know, as I'm not familiar with the Oppo BDP-83. I can however confirm that extracted VC-1 video streams within .mkv play fine on the Oppo BDP-10x range of players.

One other thing you could try is re-muxing the extracted VC-1 video stream into the .m2ts container (using TSmuxerGUI). Obviously you'll loose chapter navigation but it would be interesting to know if the same VC-1 video stream is displayed at the correct aspect ratio on your BDP-83 ;)

[jdryyz]

If it takes care of all that, I will give HdBrStreamExtractor a try also.

Your mention of FAT32 partitions raises the question, are you having success with VC1 because you are using local storage? I playback media to the 83 with a DLNA server, and as I stated before, I know the DLNA capabilities of the 83 are limited. This trouble I am having with VC-1 encodes could be just another limitation.

So basically what I am saying is, if I cannot play it over DLNA, I am not interested. :)

I have never tried playing an AVCHD over DLNA on the 83 but I have done so successfully with the 93.

Thanks for the tip on the aspect ratio. Once I saw that AVC-encoded HD-DVDs did not have the squeeze, I knew that aspect ratio settings have nothing to do with it.

I also have the Oppo 83 and it plays VC1.
The variable framerate in your MediaInfo report is not normal.
As I said above, you should try HdBrStreamExtractor to extract audio, video and subtitles ; it will join EVOs and will remove the VC1 pulldown flag. For the subtitles, you can use BDSup2Sub to convert to BDSup (then make OCR if you need srt, Subtitle Edit does it well).
Then make mkv, ts or AVCHD.
Personally, I always make AVCHDs with TSMuxer because it allows 2 things on the 83 :
- output 24hz as is without 3:2 pulldown conversion (what he does with mkv and all files)
- play movies bigger than 4 GB on a FAT32 partition (don't forget to split at 4 GB in TSMuxer, cuts will be invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure).
As there is no re-encoding, this is very fast.
For the ratio, there is nothing special to do with 1980*1080, just let it as is, it's square pixel encoding thus the PAR is 1:1 (because SAR = DAR with square pixel encodings), don't add 16/9 PAR.

[Music Fan]

If it takes care of all that, I will give HdBrStreamExtractor a try also.
Yes, that's a good GUI for eac3to, but you can also use directly eac3to with command lines.

Your mention of FAT32 partitions raises the question, are you having success with VC1 because you are using local storage?
I use external HDD because I don't want to store movies on my pc. And I believe the 83 doesn't manage Ntfs.

This trouble I am having with VC-1 encodes could be just another limitation.
I believe it's just a problem with extraction, it should be ok with HdBrStreamExtractor and a remux in ts or m2ts.

So basically what I am saying is, if I cannot play it over DLNA, I am not interested. :)

I have never tried playing an AVCHD over DLNA on the 83 but I have done so successfully with the 93.
I don't know if the 83 can play AVCHD over DLNA, I can try but I would be astonished if it does.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I playback media to the 83 with a DLNA server, and as I stated before, I know the DLNA capabilities of the 83 are limited. This trouble I am having with VC-1 encodes could be just another limitation...I have all of my HD-DVD.mkv file back-ups stored on a Synology NAS which are accessed from my Oppo (and TV's) via UPnP/DLNA.

When it comes to UPnP/DLNA limitations, which UPnP/DLNA server are you using? Have you checked its settings? As it might be 'transcoding' VC-1 video to say, MPEG-2 video!

[jdryyz]

Oh, I have tested so many DLNA solutions, it is ridiculous. I have settled on iSedora software that I run on a Mac but even it has problems (as in bugs). The Oppo 83 plays .MKVs natively over DLNA. .avi and .mp4 require transcoding.

So, no, I am not transcoding any of the recently created .mkv files.

I have all of my HD-DVD.mkv file back-ups stored on a Synology NAS which are accessed from my Oppo (and TV's) via UPnP/DLNA.

When it comes to UPnP/DLNA limitations, which UPnP/DLNA server are you using? Have you checked its settings? As it might be 'transcoding' VC-1 video to say, MPEG-2 video!

[jdryyz]

It is because of the lack of NTFS support that I was motivated to go with DLNA. That, plus I did not want a storage device hanging off of the player.

DLNA also provides central storage for my multiple players.

I use external HDD because I don't want to store movies on my pc. And I believe the 83 doesn't manage Ntfs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

jdryyz,

Out of interest, does the aspect ratio look okay when you play this 41MB VC-1.mkv sample file (https://www.sendspace.com/file/b22ncs)?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

I made some tests on the BDP-83 in DLNA with the server oShare ;
-VC1 is played (I tried with a 29.97 fps video in m2ts container)
-24 hz (23.976) is converted in 60 hz (tested with h264 in mkv container)
-AVCHD folders are considered as simple folders, thus benefits of AVCHD structure (24 hz, chaptering) are lost.

[jdryyz]

Sorry, that too is squeezed. Nice scene, though. :)

jdryyz,

Out of interest, does the aspect ratio look okay when you play this 41MB VC-1.mkv sample file (https://www.sendspace.com/file/b22ncs)?

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry, that too is squeezed. Nice scene, though. :)Hmmm...

Well if Music Fan is able to play/display the same 'sample file' okay on his BDP-83 via UPnP/DLNA then something must be wrong at your end...

[Music Fan]

You have to use the zoom on the BDP-83's remote to stretch in 16/9 when this happens, I already had this (little) problem.

[jdryyz]

Did he say he was able to or was that a friendly suggestion? :)

Something I should point out now since we both have Oppo 83s, I purposely do not have the latest firmware installed due a longstanding bug with playing SD content over DLNA. I wonder if it could be related to this. I doubt it if HD AVC files aren't squeezed.


Hmmm...

Well if Music Fan is able to play/display the same 'sample file' okay on his BDP-83 via UPnP/DLNA then something must be wrong at your end...

[jdryyz]

Sorry to report, using HdBrStreamExtractor did not help.

I was able to change the audio to the core format, so that was nice. I used MKVmerge to remux the streams into .mkv but the file was still squeezed.

Incidentally, I saw there is an option in HdBr to change the video from VC1 to MKV but when I selected this and extracted, I heard a loud "buzzzzzzz" noise. I assume that means there was a problem doing that. A shame. That could have saved a step.


I also have the Oppo 83 and it plays VC1.
The variable framerate in your MediaInfo report is not normal.
As I said above, you should try HdBrStreamExtractor to extract audio, video and subtitles ; it will join EVOs and will remove the VC1 pulldown flag. For the subtitles, you can use BDSup2Sub to convert to BDSup (then make OCR if you need srt, Subtitle Edit does it well).
Then make mkv, ts or AVCHD.
Personally, I always make AVCHDs with TSMuxer because it allows 2 things on the 83 :
- output 24hz as is without 3:2 pulldown conversion (what he does with mkv and all files)
- play movies bigger than 4 GB on a FAT32 partition (don't forget to split at 4 GB in TSMuxer, cuts will be invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure).
As there is no re-encoding, this is very fast.
For the ratio, there is nothing special to do with 1980*1080, just let it as is, it's square pixel encoding thus the PAR is 1:1 (because SAR = DAR with square pixel encodings), don't add 16/9 PAR.

[jdryyz]

This did not work either. Darn!

One other thing you could try is re-muxing the extracted VC-1 video stream into the .m2ts container (using TSmuxerGUI). Obviously you'll loose chapter navigation but it would be interesting to know if the same VC-1 video stream is displayed at the correct aspect ratio on your BDP-83 ;)

[Music Fan]

Did he say he was able to or was that a friendly suggestion? :)
A suggestion, and I tried.

Something I should point out now since we both have Oppo 83s, I purposely do not have the latest firmware installed due a longstanding bug with playing SD content over DLNA. I wonder if it could be related to this. I doubt it if HD AVC files aren't squeezed.
You should install latest firmware, otherwise I can't help you furthermore.

Sorry to report, using HdBrStreamExtractor did not help.

I was able to change the audio to the core format, so that was nice. I used MKVmerge to remux the streams into .mkv but the file was still squeezed.
That's not related to the extraction, eac3to (with or without HdBrStreamExtractor) is useful anyway to extract correctly Hd-dvd content, especially VC1.

I tried using the zoom feature on my TV and the Oppo but neither gives the correct result.
A simple click on the zoom button works on my BDP-83 (with latest firmware) to "un-squeeze" SeeMoreDigital's video, don't touch to your TV zoom, this problem is only related to the Oppo.

[jdryyz]

A suggestion, and I tried.

So you tired it over DLNA but it still required using the zoom button? At any rate, using the zoom button even to quickly remedy the problem isn't the solution I had in mind.

You should install latest firmware, otherwise I can't help you furthermore.

I would love to if it didn't come with more bugs! The problem is unlikely to be solved at the point. Oppo isn't doing anything more with this old player. So I have to stay at the firmware I am at now.

That's not related to the extraction, eac3to (with or without HdBrStreamExtractor) is useful anyway to extract correctly Hd-dvd content, especially VC1.

I'm confused now. You suggested the problem was with extraction not what happens after. I tried a different extraction method but it did not make a difference. Should I have chose a different path to .mkv after the extraction? Oh, wait. I see that you said to go from HdBrStreamExtractor to .ts or .m2ts. I will give that a shot.

[jdryyz]

Some good news! I finally decided I would burn an .iso created with ClownBD and the disc contents playback flawlessly on the 83.

This reminded me that I need to try SeeMoreDigital's sample video from local media. Since it is so small, I can put it on a FAT32 USB drive. I am 99% sure it will play fine and I am just dealing with a DLNA incompatibility. I am content with that since I plan to have the 83 replaced at some point in the not-too-distant future when I can upgrade my AVR.

I may be making more discs now than I first planned. I will have to test out how the 83 handles DD+ and TrueHD audio (for my test, I chose Dolby Digital). I even have one HD-DVD in my collection that has a DTS-MA audio track.

I captured subtitles with the last ClownBD disc that was created but the disc acts as if they do not exist. Subtitles have always been a bit of a mystery to me. When available in .mkv files, they never looked good on the Oppo 82 or 93. I believe I need a separate file for them but if I selected all the other components to be assembled in the ClownBD process, I wonder why subtitles are the only thing not available.

[Stereodude]

eac3to can remove the pulldown flags from the video streams on the HD-DVD discs. The underlying content is progressive. It's been a while since I used ClownBD to convert HD-DVDs to Blu-rays. It has to remove it for blu-ray to make the streams BD compliant. I didn't try it for converting to mkv, so I'm not sure if it removes the pulldown flags when muxing to mkv.

[jdryyz]

Yes, ClownBD uses eac3to and it does a fine job of removing the pulldown flags. After creating .ISOs with ClownBD, the quickest path to an .mkv file for me is to use MakeMKV. It works great, but it does nothing to stop the .MKVs from being squeezed on my Oppo 83. Seems to be a DLNA-related matter at this point.


eac3to can remove the pulldown flags from the video streams on the HD-DVD discs. The underlying content is progressive. It's been a while since I used ClownBD to convert HD-DVDs to Blu-rays. It has to remove it for blu-ray to make the streams BD compliant. I didn't try it for converting to mkv, so I'm not sure if it removes the pulldown flags when muxing to mkv.

[Stereodude]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were having an aspect ratio problem. I thought you were having an issue with the framerate. I guess I skimmed the thread too quickly.

[jdryyz]

Not a problem. :)

Sorry, I didn't realize you were having an aspect ratio problem. I thought you were having an issue with the framerate. I guess I skimmed the thread too quickly.