What tools to copy Hd-dvd in 2014 ?

[Music Fan]

Hi,
I discovered lately the Hd-dvd format buying few tens at very good price in 2012.
Now I'd like to copy them on hard drive with my Xbox Hd-dvd player (and probably make AVCHD or Blu-ray with their content) but most of topics about that subject are quite old.
What is the latest method to do this ?

I use AnyDvd for decrypting and for the rest I made research and found 2 programs for EVO demuxing ; eac3to (optionally with a GUI named HdBrStream Extractor) and EVOdemux. vc1conv seems important when EVOdemux is used to remove the pulldown flag because EVOdemux does not remove it.
Does it mean eac3to also removes this flag ? If yes I guess vc1conv is not important when demuxing is done with eac3to.

I was told HdBrStreamExtractor was not enough to demux all streams and that ClownBD should be used for DolbyTrueHD (and only for it). Is it still relevant ?

I tried to transfer HVDVD_TS folder (decrypted by AnyDvd) onto a hard drive (by a simple drag and drop) but it stopped because of "cyclic redundancy", like with some dvd's.:o
I was not very surprised because this Hd-dvd can't be played entirely on my Toshiba XE1 player, giving the Error Code 408bc509 (this error is know and seems to be due to a kind of rotting :scared:).
EVOdemux has also problems with this Hd-dvd. It doesn't crash but can't go further than a certain point.
Is there a solution to this ?

Is there anything else to know about Hd-dvd decrypting and copy ?
Thanks ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past. And DVDFab Passkey provides the ability to drag entire EVO files onto your HDD...

[Music Fan]

Thanks, do you know if DVDFab Passkey is still Hd-dvd compatible ? On their website, they only speak about Dvd and Blu-ray.

[SeeMoreDigital]

It would seem so: -

http://i58.tinypic.com/1z4v04o.png

[Music Fan]

Cool. Anyway I have AnyDvd, I guess they do the same job with Hd-dvd.

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Read the HD DVD-pertinent info in the sticky by "QuadcoreHD" at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=137151

[setarip_old]

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi!

You say,"I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past."

As I recall, MakeMKV was only able to handle the simpler HD-DVD structures - and MakeMKV's HD-DVD's capabilities have not been enhanced or updated for at least a couple of years.

[Music Fan]

Hi!

Read the HD DVD-pertinent info in the sticky by "QuadcoreHD" at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=137151


Thanks but this short tutorial is quite simple and does not answer my questions.

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi!

You say,"I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past."

As I recall, MakeMKV was only able to handle the simpler HD-DVD structures - and MakeMKV's HD-DVD's capabilities have not been enhanced or updated for at least a couple of years.
How to know which Hd-dvd's can be processed by MakeMKV ? Where is the limit between a simple and a complex structure ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi!

You say,"I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past."

As I recall, MakeMKV was only able to handle the simpler HD-DVD structures - and MakeMKV's HD-DVD's capabilities have not been enhanced or updated for at least a couple of years. If you think about it logically, MakeMKV is only be able to offer you 'main movie' back-ups, because the .MKV container does not support 'full' Blu-ray' disc or 'DVD' disc back-ups...

Everything that you require is there... Such as AVC or VC-1 video. Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus audio, chapter positions and subtitles

[Music Fan]

Does MakeMKV remove the pulldown flag in vc1 streams ?

[setarip_old]

If you think about it logically, MakeMKV is only be able to offer you 'main movie' back-ups, because the .MKV container does not support 'full' Blu-ray' disc...
Actually, MakeMKV is quite capable of making FULL backups of many, if not most, Blu-ray discs...

[Stereodude]

I've used ClownBD to turn a few HD-DVDs into Blu-Ray discs. You only get the main movie (no menu), but it's dead simple and easy. I don't recall having any issues with any audio type other than EAC3 (Dolby Digital Plus). The only reason why DD+ is a problem is that Blu-Ray doesn't support it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Actually, MakeMKV is quite capable of making FULL backups of many, if not most, Blu-ray discs...
For me, a 'full disc' back-up should include fully accessible and navigational menus. Can MakeMKV offer this in the MKV container?

[nevcairiel]

MakeMKV can also copy a decrypted Blu-ray structure onto your HDD, which is a "full" backup. It doesn't turn it into MKV then, because as you noted MKV cannot represent the menus.

[Stereodude]

Actually, MakeMKV is quite capable of making FULL backups of many, if not most, Blu-ray discs... But what is the relevance of that to copy HD-DVDs in 2014? Can it make a FULL backup with working menu that ends up in Blu-Ray format from an HD-DVD? If not MakeMKV doesn't offer him anything that AnyDVD HD doesn't do already.

[SeeMoreDigital]

With regard to converting HD-DVD to Blu-ray compliant (M2TS) files it can be quite tricky to work with the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus audio streams.

Originally I backed up all of my HD-DVD's to the Blu-ray file structure using tools such as EVOdemux, UsEac3To and TSmuxer. I then used ImgBurn to make them into BRD.ISO files.

Having my movies stored as .ISO files was fine for a few years until I bought an Oppo media player and some Smart TV's, because none of these devices support playback of .iso files. So I've now re-muxed them to the .MKV container.

Hi,
I tried to transfer HVDVD_TS folder (decrypted by AnyDvd) onto a hard drive (by a simple drag and drop) but it stopped because of "cyclic redundancy", like with some dvd's.:o
I was not very surprised because this Hd-dvd can't be played entirely on my Toshiba XE1 player, giving the Error Code 408bc509 (this error is know and seems to be due to a kind of rotting :scared:).

My HD-DVD/DVD hybrid disc of Superman Returns de-laminated from the centre of the disc. I could only back-up part of the disc :scared:

[Stereodude]

With regard to converting HD-DVD to Blu-ray compliant (M2TS) files it can be quite tricky to work with the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus audio streams.It's pretty much point and click with ClownBD. For TrueHD it will create the missing AC3 "core" that Blu-ray needs that's not on the HD-DVD. DD+ you either decode it to .wav or convert it to standard AC3.

[SeeMoreDigital]

It's pretty much point and click with ClownBD. For TrueHD it will create the missing AC3 "core" that Blu-ray needs that's not on the HD-DVD...That does indeed sound simple. I used UsEac3To to mux the missing AC3 core into the TrueHD stream...

EDIT: The weird thing is. I seem to remember reading that Dolby TrueHD audio was 'mandatory' for HD-DVD. But like I mentioned earlier, I have a few disc's that don't include it!

[Stereodude]

EDIT: The weird thing is. I seem to remember reading that Dolby TrueHD audio was 'mandatory' for HD-DVD. But like I mentioned earlier, I have a few disc's that don't include it!I thought only DD+ was mandatory.

[Music Fan]

With regard to converting HD-DVD to Blu-ray compliant (M2TS) files it can be quite tricky to work with the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus audio streams.
I guess it means DD+ is not Blu-ray/AVCHD compliant.
I believe it can be converted to dd @ 640 kbps which is Blu-ray/AVCHD compliant (I mean the AVCHD created by multiAVCHD, not sure about the real AVCHD format which is more restricted).

Originally I backed up all of my HD-DVD's to the Blu-ray file structure using tools such as EVOdemux, UsEac3To and TSmuxer. I then used ImgBurn to make them into BRD.ISO files.
What's better between EVOdemux and UsEac3To ? I still don't know what to choose, especially for the pulldown flag problem with VC1.

Having my movies stored as .ISO files was fine for a few years until I bought an Oppo media player and some Smart TV's, because none of these devices support playback of .iso files. So I've now re-muxed them to the .MKV container.
There is another solution which works with Oppo and Sony players (and maybe others) : AVCHD on Hard drive or USB key. You can create this with multiAVCHD ; choose PS3 for solid media when exporting the project, and tick split m2ts in 4000 MB parts in options (if it's for Fat32).
Then put the AVCHD folder on hdd or usb key. It allows menus, pop-up menus and several titles (movie and bonus) in one folder, as if you played an iso.

My HD-DVD/DVD hybrid disc of Superman Returns de-laminated from the centre of the disc. I could only back-up part of the disc
If you have or find a picture of this, I'm curious to see it. I also have this movie, I should verify its condition.:scared:

I could copy some movies on a hard drive (entire HVDVD_TS folder decrypted by AnyDvd) including Matrix Revolutions but neither Matrix nor Matrix Reloaded, while they are in the same box.:o

[Music Fan]

It's pretty much point and click with ClownBD. For TrueHD it will create the missing AC3 "core" that Blu-ray needs that's not on the HD-DVD
Does it create it by re-encoding the True HD track to ac3 ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

There is another solution which works with Oppo and Sony players (and maybe others) : AVCHD on Hard drive or USB key. You can create this with multiAVCHD ; choose PS3 for solid media when exporting the project, and tick split m2ts in 4000 MB parts in options (if it's for Fat32).
Then put the AVCHD folder on hdd or usb key. It allows menus, pop-up menus and several titles (movie and bonus) in one folder, as if you played an iso.Yes, I've made a few 'test files' using an AVCHD folder structure. And they do indeed work fine with the Oppo.

But as I don't bother making 'full disc' back-ups, it's easier for me to place the streams I require into the MKV container with chapters.


If you have or find a picture of this, I'm curious to see it. I also have this movie, I should verify its condition.:scared:I binned it after I pulled it apart...

[Music Fan]

Same problem with Superman Returns, "cyclic redundancy" :o
I wouldn't have bought Hd-dvd's in 2012 if I had known this problem :(

[Stereodude]

Does it create it by re-encoding the True HD track to ac3 ?It decodes the TrueHD and encodes an ac3 file from it. Then it embeds the ac3 into the TrueHD stream into the output file that's later mux'd.

[Music Fan]

Ok, and does it always work, no encoding bug ?

@ SeeMoreDigital : actually there is another advantage to AVCHD compared to MKV (with some players, maybe not the recent) : to have 24 hz. With files (mkv, mp4, avi ...), a lot of players convert 24 hz in 60 hz.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Ok, and does it always work, no encoding bug ?

@ SeeMoreDigital : actually there is another advantage to AVCHD compared to MKV (with some players, maybe not the recent) : to have 24 hz. With files (mkv, mp4, avi ...), a lot of players convert 24 hz in 60 hz.Fortunately I don't have this issue with any of my devices ;)

[Stereodude]

Ok, and does it always work, no encoding bug ?It worked on the movies I tried it on. What encoding bug are you referring to?

Frankly, the odds of my using the embedded AC3 audio is remote so I didn't pay that much attention when I did this some time back.

[jdryyz]

Two years later and I need to perform the same task as the original poster. My HD-DVDs are showing signs of rot and I want to save them while I still can. So if I understand DVDFab Passkey correctly, this will unlock the disc making the contents open to copy to my local hard drive and no longer needing special software for playback? Well, the player will still have to understand the codec of course. Does VLC handle VC-1 encodes? I know it was only recently that it became possible to playback BD structures so I'm not sure it ever did anything with HD-DVD.

Assuming I have luck backing up my discs, would HandBrake also be able to re-encode the VC-1 format?? I would like to maintain the original disc structure where possible and then do some main-title only reencodes to .mkv with HandBrake.

Need to find a good source for an HD-DVD optical drive too. :D

[Video Dude]

Need to find a good source for an HD-DVD optical drive too. :D

Go to a used video game store and get an external Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive. They go for under $25 and connect via USB. IIRC, they are rebranded Toshiba HD-DVD ROM drives.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Go to a used video game store and get an external Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive. They go for under $25 and connect via USB. IIRC, they are rebranded Toshiba HD-DVD ROM drives.
Agreed ;)

[jdryyz]

I know the drive you are referring to. I used to own one when they were being blown-out due to Blu-Ray winning the format war.

I was able to find an HP brand (Toshiha drive, possibly the same used in the xbox one) w/ PATA interface. Says it reads HD-DVDs at 2.5x. The best I have seen is 3x. Guess this is going to be a slow process....

Any thoughts on my other questions?

Go to a used video game store and get an external Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive. They go for under $25 and connect via USB. IIRC, they are rebranded Toshiba HD-DVD ROM drives.

[foxyshadis]

So if I understand DVDFab Passkey correctly, this will unlock the disc making the contents open to copy to my local hard drive and no longer needing special software for playback? Well, the player will still have to understand the codec of course. Does VLC handle VC-1 encodes? I know it was only recently that it became possible to playback BD structures so I'm not sure it ever did anything with HD-DVD.

Assuming I have luck backing up my discs, would HandBrake also be able to re-encode the VC-1 format?? I would like to maintain the original disc structure where possible and then do some main-title only reencodes to .mkv with HandBrake.

Need to find a good source for an HD-DVD optical drive too. :D

Passkey is like AnyDVD; it transparently decrypts so you can watch or rip or whatever. No idea what if any software supports HD-DVD menus for full playback, but VLC, MPC, MPDN and other players all support the individual EVO streams, along with VC-1.

If you're going to stick strictly to software players, you could probably re-encode to Blu-ray specs instead, or without any restriction, and still remux it into a new EVO instead of mkv. It's not like software players bother to validate it, as long as they can decode it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[Music Fan]

Once it's decrypted, you can copy the whole structure on hard drive to keep menus (keep all folders !). I believe that TotalMedia Theatre, PowerDVD and WinDVD were able to play Hd-dvd's menus.

[jdryyz]

Thanks for the info.

Once I get the discs copied to a local drive, converting them to BD structures was another thought. BD media is still expensive but I wouldn't have to make too many...only the most important titles. I already have a Blu-Ray burner.

I've read up on the problems I will face with DD+ audio tracks. With all the software tools out there now, I am sure I can come up with a working solution.

Passkey is like AnyDVD; it transparently decrypts so you can watch or rip or whatever. No idea what if any software supports HD-DVD menus for full playback, but VLC, MPC, MPDN and other players all support the individual EVO streams, along with VC-1.

If you're going to stick strictly to software players, you could probably re-encode to Blu-ray specs instead, or without any restriction, and still remux it into a new EVO instead of mkv. It's not like software players bother to validate it, as long as they can decode it.

[jdryyz]

I haven't counted, but I believe I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 discs.

Thank you for the tip on MKVmerge.

jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[jdryyz]

Ahhh yes. I almost forgot about PowerDVD. That is what I used to playback HD-DVD media from the X-Box drive I had...and recall what a poor job it did. Of course, the OS back then was Windows XP, getting the drive to be recognized in Windows was a bit of a hack and PowerDVD's HD capabilities were in their infancy. My hardware could have been under-powered also. Should be no effort at all these days.

Once it's decrypted, you can copy the whole structure on hard drive to keep menus (keep all folders !). I believe that TotalMedia Theatre, PowerDVD and WinDVD were able to play Hd-dvd's menus.

[Emulgator]

IIRC, HD-DVD playback has been removed from PowerDVD's capabilities from a certain version on, as with folder play (the latter around version 7.3.)
Can anybody confirm ?

[ErichV]

IIRC, HD-DVD playback has been removed from PowerDVD's capabilities from a certain version on, as with folder play (the latter around version 7.3.)
Can anybody confirm ?

That's right.
Either you use version 7 of PowerDVD or version 3 to 6 of TotalMedia Theatre.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I haven't counted, but I believe I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 discs.

Thank you for the tip on MKVmerge.Sufficed to say, if all you really want to do is view is the actual movie, saving your HD-DVD's to the .mkv container offers you much greater compatibility with software and hardware players ;)

[jdryyz]

I will more than likely do both. There might be additional content on some discs that would justify a full disc extraction. Some may not have anything but the main feature to begin with. :)

Either way I would like to get all discs backed up safely, then I need not worry about the physical media any longer. I will then be free to decide what gets converted and what doesn't.


Sufficed to say, if all you really want to do is view is the actual movie, saving your HD-DVD's to the .mkv container offers you much greater compatibility with software and hardware players ;)

[Music Fan]

You can also make an AVCHD put on external hard drive, most of Blu-ray players can play AVCHD folders.
On my player (Oppo 83), this is useful to get 24 hz (or actually 23.976) because 24 hz in mkv container is converted to 60 hz while it stays in 24 hz in AVCHD structure (I do it with TSMuxer).
But it handles only FAT32, thus I simply have to split movies in 4 GB sized chunks in TSMuxer, but cuts are invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure.
And it can play DD+, thus you probably won't have to convert DD+ in another format (make a test with a short clip on your player).

[SeeMoreDigital]

On my player (Oppo 83), this is useful to get 24 hz (or actually 23.976) because 24 hz in mkv container is converted to 60 hz while it stays in 24 hz in AVCHD structure (I do it with TSMuxer).That's a shame. My Oppo 103 is able to output 23.976fps .mkv contained video at 24Hz without any issues...

[jdryyz]

So my HD-DVD ROM drive arrived yesterday. I temporarily have it connected via an IDE-to-USB adapter and the transfer rate is pretty slow. I am sure I can do better with it actually connected to the internal IDE cable. Fortunately, I have another open bay to put it in.

I was curious about DVDFab Passkey's "Rip to hard disk" option. Is this in any way different from just dragging and dropping the folders on the disc to a folder on my local hard drive? I see there's a little bit of automation it is doing with the disc title so it makes the process a little easier, but I was more curious if there is anything else going on. Just by having DVD Fab running in the background, I have already unlocked the disc.

jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I was curious about DVDFab Passkey's "Rip to hard disk" option. Is this in any way different from just dragging and dropping the folders on the disc to a folder on my local hard drive? No, not really. Not unless you miss some files by 'dragging-and-dropping'...

[jdryyz]

I figured as much. :) I will use the Rip to...option instead.

No, not really. Not unless you miss some files by 'dragging-and-dropping'...

[jdryyz]

I've made a number of successful rips so far with only one disc reporting read errors.

I used ClownBD to create a BD structure and it works well with the software BD player I used.

What version of MKVmerge do you recommend? Is this now referred to as MKVToolNix? I find the new interface to be a little confusing. I may hunt down an old release instead. I know I used this for some other project a few years back but have not kept up with it.

Are you saying I can remux directly into .mkv without doing a full re-encode? If so, that sounds like it will save a lot of time.


jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[Music Fan]

What version of MKVmerge do you recommend?
8.3.0.

Are you saying I can remux directly into .mkv without doing a full re-encode?
Of course, that's just a container change.

[jdryyz]

That version still appears to use the new interface. Might as well go with the latest release (8.8.0 at the time of this post) unless there is another reason you suggest the one below.

Turns out I was able to navigate through 8.8.0 just fine and remuxed a file successfully.

The resulting .mkv file is 29.99 fps instead of 23.9, however, which I believe is a point of concern you mentioned in your original post (the "pulldown flag", correct?).

Is there a way to create proper 23.9 fps .mkv files for film content?

8.3.0.

[Music Fan]

That version still appears to use the new interface.
No, it lets the choice between the old (mmg.exe) and the new (mkvtoolnix-gui.exe) GUI.

Is there a way to create proper 23.9 fps .mkv files for film content?
Select 24/1001 as framerate (fps).