What tools to copy Hd-dvd in 2014 ?

[Music Fan]

Hi,
I discovered lately the Hd-dvd format buying few tens at very good price in 2012.
Now I'd like to copy them on hard drive with my Xbox Hd-dvd player (and probably make AVCHD or Blu-ray with their content) but most of topics about that subject are quite old.
What is the latest method to do this ?

I use AnyDvd for decrypting and for the rest I made research and found 2 programs for EVO demuxing ; eac3to (optionally with a GUI named HdBrStream Extractor) and EVOdemux. vc1conv seems important when EVOdemux is used to remove the pulldown flag because EVOdemux does not remove it.
Does it mean eac3to also removes this flag ? If yes I guess vc1conv is not important when demuxing is done with eac3to.

I was told HdBrStreamExtractor was not enough to demux all streams and that ClownBD should be used for DolbyTrueHD (and only for it). Is it still relevant ?

I tried to transfer HVDVD_TS folder (decrypted by AnyDvd) onto a hard drive (by a simple drag and drop) but it stopped because of "cyclic redundancy", like with some dvd's.:o
I was not very surprised because this Hd-dvd can't be played entirely on my Toshiba XE1 player, giving the Error Code 408bc509 (this error is know and seems to be due to a kind of rotting :scared:).
EVOdemux has also problems with this Hd-dvd. It doesn't crash but can't go further than a certain point.
Is there a solution to this ?

Is there anything else to know about Hd-dvd decrypting and copy ?
Thanks ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past. And DVDFab Passkey provides the ability to drag entire EVO files onto your HDD...

[Music Fan]

Thanks, do you know if DVDFab Passkey is still Hd-dvd compatible ? On their website, they only speak about Dvd and Blu-ray.

[SeeMoreDigital]

It would seem so: -

http://i58.tinypic.com/1z4v04o.png

[Music Fan]

Cool. Anyway I have AnyDvd, I guess they do the same job with Hd-dvd.

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Read the HD DVD-pertinent info in the sticky by "QuadcoreHD" at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=137151

[setarip_old]

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi!

You say,"I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past."

As I recall, MakeMKV was only able to handle the simpler HD-DVD structures - and MakeMKV's HD-DVD's capabilities have not been enhanced or updated for at least a couple of years.

[Music Fan]

Hi!

Read the HD DVD-pertinent info in the sticky by "QuadcoreHD" at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=137151


Thanks but this short tutorial is quite simple and does not answer my questions.

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi!

You say,"I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past."

As I recall, MakeMKV was only able to handle the simpler HD-DVD structures - and MakeMKV's HD-DVD's capabilities have not been enhanced or updated for at least a couple of years.
How to know which Hd-dvd's can be processed by MakeMKV ? Where is the limit between a simple and a complex structure ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi!

You say,"I seem to remember using MakeMKV in the past."

As I recall, MakeMKV was only able to handle the simpler HD-DVD structures - and MakeMKV's HD-DVD's capabilities have not been enhanced or updated for at least a couple of years. If you think about it logically, MakeMKV is only be able to offer you 'main movie' back-ups, because the .MKV container does not support 'full' Blu-ray' disc or 'DVD' disc back-ups...

Everything that you require is there... Such as AVC or VC-1 video. Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus audio, chapter positions and subtitles

[Music Fan]

Does MakeMKV remove the pulldown flag in vc1 streams ?

[setarip_old]

If you think about it logically, MakeMKV is only be able to offer you 'main movie' back-ups, because the .MKV container does not support 'full' Blu-ray' disc...
Actually, MakeMKV is quite capable of making FULL backups of many, if not most, Blu-ray discs...

[Stereodude]

I've used ClownBD to turn a few HD-DVDs into Blu-Ray discs. You only get the main movie (no menu), but it's dead simple and easy. I don't recall having any issues with any audio type other than EAC3 (Dolby Digital Plus). The only reason why DD+ is a problem is that Blu-Ray doesn't support it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Actually, MakeMKV is quite capable of making FULL backups of many, if not most, Blu-ray discs...
For me, a 'full disc' back-up should include fully accessible and navigational menus. Can MakeMKV offer this in the MKV container?

[nevcairiel]

MakeMKV can also copy a decrypted Blu-ray structure onto your HDD, which is a "full" backup. It doesn't turn it into MKV then, because as you noted MKV cannot represent the menus.

[Stereodude]

Actually, MakeMKV is quite capable of making FULL backups of many, if not most, Blu-ray discs... But what is the relevance of that to copy HD-DVDs in 2014? Can it make a FULL backup with working menu that ends up in Blu-Ray format from an HD-DVD? If not MakeMKV doesn't offer him anything that AnyDVD HD doesn't do already.

[SeeMoreDigital]

With regard to converting HD-DVD to Blu-ray compliant (M2TS) files it can be quite tricky to work with the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus audio streams.

Originally I backed up all of my HD-DVD's to the Blu-ray file structure using tools such as EVOdemux, UsEac3To and TSmuxer. I then used ImgBurn to make them into BRD.ISO files.

Having my movies stored as .ISO files was fine for a few years until I bought an Oppo media player and some Smart TV's, because none of these devices support playback of .iso files. So I've now re-muxed them to the .MKV container.

Hi,
I tried to transfer HVDVD_TS folder (decrypted by AnyDvd) onto a hard drive (by a simple drag and drop) but it stopped because of "cyclic redundancy", like with some dvd's.:o
I was not very surprised because this Hd-dvd can't be played entirely on my Toshiba XE1 player, giving the Error Code 408bc509 (this error is know and seems to be due to a kind of rotting :scared:).

My HD-DVD/DVD hybrid disc of Superman Returns de-laminated from the centre of the disc. I could only back-up part of the disc :scared:

[Stereodude]

With regard to converting HD-DVD to Blu-ray compliant (M2TS) files it can be quite tricky to work with the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus audio streams.It's pretty much point and click with ClownBD. For TrueHD it will create the missing AC3 "core" that Blu-ray needs that's not on the HD-DVD. DD+ you either decode it to .wav or convert it to standard AC3.

[SeeMoreDigital]

It's pretty much point and click with ClownBD. For TrueHD it will create the missing AC3 "core" that Blu-ray needs that's not on the HD-DVD...That does indeed sound simple. I used UsEac3To to mux the missing AC3 core into the TrueHD stream...

EDIT: The weird thing is. I seem to remember reading that Dolby TrueHD audio was 'mandatory' for HD-DVD. But like I mentioned earlier, I have a few disc's that don't include it!

[Stereodude]

EDIT: The weird thing is. I seem to remember reading that Dolby TrueHD audio was 'mandatory' for HD-DVD. But like I mentioned earlier, I have a few disc's that don't include it!I thought only DD+ was mandatory.

[Music Fan]

With regard to converting HD-DVD to Blu-ray compliant (M2TS) files it can be quite tricky to work with the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus audio streams.
I guess it means DD+ is not Blu-ray/AVCHD compliant.
I believe it can be converted to dd @ 640 kbps which is Blu-ray/AVCHD compliant (I mean the AVCHD created by multiAVCHD, not sure about the real AVCHD format which is more restricted).

Originally I backed up all of my HD-DVD's to the Blu-ray file structure using tools such as EVOdemux, UsEac3To and TSmuxer. I then used ImgBurn to make them into BRD.ISO files.
What's better between EVOdemux and UsEac3To ? I still don't know what to choose, especially for the pulldown flag problem with VC1.

Having my movies stored as .ISO files was fine for a few years until I bought an Oppo media player and some Smart TV's, because none of these devices support playback of .iso files. So I've now re-muxed them to the .MKV container.
There is another solution which works with Oppo and Sony players (and maybe others) : AVCHD on Hard drive or USB key. You can create this with multiAVCHD ; choose PS3 for solid media when exporting the project, and tick split m2ts in 4000 MB parts in options (if it's for Fat32).
Then put the AVCHD folder on hdd or usb key. It allows menus, pop-up menus and several titles (movie and bonus) in one folder, as if you played an iso.

My HD-DVD/DVD hybrid disc of Superman Returns de-laminated from the centre of the disc. I could only back-up part of the disc
If you have or find a picture of this, I'm curious to see it. I also have this movie, I should verify its condition.:scared:

I could copy some movies on a hard drive (entire HVDVD_TS folder decrypted by AnyDvd) including Matrix Revolutions but neither Matrix nor Matrix Reloaded, while they are in the same box.:o

[Music Fan]

It's pretty much point and click with ClownBD. For TrueHD it will create the missing AC3 "core" that Blu-ray needs that's not on the HD-DVD
Does it create it by re-encoding the True HD track to ac3 ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

There is another solution which works with Oppo and Sony players (and maybe others) : AVCHD on Hard drive or USB key. You can create this with multiAVCHD ; choose PS3 for solid media when exporting the project, and tick split m2ts in 4000 MB parts in options (if it's for Fat32).
Then put the AVCHD folder on hdd or usb key. It allows menus, pop-up menus and several titles (movie and bonus) in one folder, as if you played an iso.Yes, I've made a few 'test files' using an AVCHD folder structure. And they do indeed work fine with the Oppo.

But as I don't bother making 'full disc' back-ups, it's easier for me to place the streams I require into the MKV container with chapters.


If you have or find a picture of this, I'm curious to see it. I also have this movie, I should verify its condition.:scared:I binned it after I pulled it apart...

[Music Fan]

Same problem with Superman Returns, "cyclic redundancy" :o
I wouldn't have bought Hd-dvd's in 2012 if I had known this problem :(

[Stereodude]

Does it create it by re-encoding the True HD track to ac3 ?It decodes the TrueHD and encodes an ac3 file from it. Then it embeds the ac3 into the TrueHD stream into the output file that's later mux'd.

[Music Fan]

Ok, and does it always work, no encoding bug ?

@ SeeMoreDigital : actually there is another advantage to AVCHD compared to MKV (with some players, maybe not the recent) : to have 24 hz. With files (mkv, mp4, avi ...), a lot of players convert 24 hz in 60 hz.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Ok, and does it always work, no encoding bug ?

@ SeeMoreDigital : actually there is another advantage to AVCHD compared to MKV (with some players, maybe not the recent) : to have 24 hz. With files (mkv, mp4, avi ...), a lot of players convert 24 hz in 60 hz.Fortunately I don't have this issue with any of my devices ;)

[Stereodude]

Ok, and does it always work, no encoding bug ?It worked on the movies I tried it on. What encoding bug are you referring to?

Frankly, the odds of my using the embedded AC3 audio is remote so I didn't pay that much attention when I did this some time back.

[jdryyz]

Two years later and I need to perform the same task as the original poster. My HD-DVDs are showing signs of rot and I want to save them while I still can. So if I understand DVDFab Passkey correctly, this will unlock the disc making the contents open to copy to my local hard drive and no longer needing special software for playback? Well, the player will still have to understand the codec of course. Does VLC handle VC-1 encodes? I know it was only recently that it became possible to playback BD structures so I'm not sure it ever did anything with HD-DVD.

Assuming I have luck backing up my discs, would HandBrake also be able to re-encode the VC-1 format?? I would like to maintain the original disc structure where possible and then do some main-title only reencodes to .mkv with HandBrake.

Need to find a good source for an HD-DVD optical drive too. :D

[Video Dude]

Need to find a good source for an HD-DVD optical drive too. :D

Go to a used video game store and get an external Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive. They go for under $25 and connect via USB. IIRC, they are rebranded Toshiba HD-DVD ROM drives.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Go to a used video game store and get an external Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive. They go for under $25 and connect via USB. IIRC, they are rebranded Toshiba HD-DVD ROM drives.
Agreed ;)

[jdryyz]

I know the drive you are referring to. I used to own one when they were being blown-out due to Blu-Ray winning the format war.

I was able to find an HP brand (Toshiha drive, possibly the same used in the xbox one) w/ PATA interface. Says it reads HD-DVDs at 2.5x. The best I have seen is 3x. Guess this is going to be a slow process....

Any thoughts on my other questions?

Go to a used video game store and get an external Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive. They go for under $25 and connect via USB. IIRC, they are rebranded Toshiba HD-DVD ROM drives.

[foxyshadis]

So if I understand DVDFab Passkey correctly, this will unlock the disc making the contents open to copy to my local hard drive and no longer needing special software for playback? Well, the player will still have to understand the codec of course. Does VLC handle VC-1 encodes? I know it was only recently that it became possible to playback BD structures so I'm not sure it ever did anything with HD-DVD.

Assuming I have luck backing up my discs, would HandBrake also be able to re-encode the VC-1 format?? I would like to maintain the original disc structure where possible and then do some main-title only reencodes to .mkv with HandBrake.

Need to find a good source for an HD-DVD optical drive too. :D

Passkey is like AnyDVD; it transparently decrypts so you can watch or rip or whatever. No idea what if any software supports HD-DVD menus for full playback, but VLC, MPC, MPDN and other players all support the individual EVO streams, along with VC-1.

If you're going to stick strictly to software players, you could probably re-encode to Blu-ray specs instead, or without any restriction, and still remux it into a new EVO instead of mkv. It's not like software players bother to validate it, as long as they can decode it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[Music Fan]

Once it's decrypted, you can copy the whole structure on hard drive to keep menus (keep all folders !). I believe that TotalMedia Theatre, PowerDVD and WinDVD were able to play Hd-dvd's menus.

[jdryyz]

Thanks for the info.

Once I get the discs copied to a local drive, converting them to BD structures was another thought. BD media is still expensive but I wouldn't have to make too many...only the most important titles. I already have a Blu-Ray burner.

I've read up on the problems I will face with DD+ audio tracks. With all the software tools out there now, I am sure I can come up with a working solution.

Passkey is like AnyDVD; it transparently decrypts so you can watch or rip or whatever. No idea what if any software supports HD-DVD menus for full playback, but VLC, MPC, MPDN and other players all support the individual EVO streams, along with VC-1.

If you're going to stick strictly to software players, you could probably re-encode to Blu-ray specs instead, or without any restriction, and still remux it into a new EVO instead of mkv. It's not like software players bother to validate it, as long as they can decode it.

[jdryyz]

I haven't counted, but I believe I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 discs.

Thank you for the tip on MKVmerge.

jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[jdryyz]

Ahhh yes. I almost forgot about PowerDVD. That is what I used to playback HD-DVD media from the X-Box drive I had...and recall what a poor job it did. Of course, the OS back then was Windows XP, getting the drive to be recognized in Windows was a bit of a hack and PowerDVD's HD capabilities were in their infancy. My hardware could have been under-powered also. Should be no effort at all these days.

Once it's decrypted, you can copy the whole structure on hard drive to keep menus (keep all folders !). I believe that TotalMedia Theatre, PowerDVD and WinDVD were able to play Hd-dvd's menus.

[Emulgator]

IIRC, HD-DVD playback has been removed from PowerDVD's capabilities from a certain version on, as with folder play (the latter around version 7.3.)
Can anybody confirm ?

[ErichV]

IIRC, HD-DVD playback has been removed from PowerDVD's capabilities from a certain version on, as with folder play (the latter around version 7.3.)
Can anybody confirm ?

That's right.
Either you use version 7 of PowerDVD or version 3 to 6 of TotalMedia Theatre.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I haven't counted, but I believe I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 discs.

Thank you for the tip on MKVmerge.Sufficed to say, if all you really want to do is view is the actual movie, saving your HD-DVD's to the .mkv container offers you much greater compatibility with software and hardware players ;)

[jdryyz]

I will more than likely do both. There might be additional content on some discs that would justify a full disc extraction. Some may not have anything but the main feature to begin with. :)

Either way I would like to get all discs backed up safely, then I need not worry about the physical media any longer. I will then be free to decide what gets converted and what doesn't.


Sufficed to say, if all you really want to do is view is the actual movie, saving your HD-DVD's to the .mkv container offers you much greater compatibility with software and hardware players ;)

[Music Fan]

You can also make an AVCHD put on external hard drive, most of Blu-ray players can play AVCHD folders.
On my player (Oppo 83), this is useful to get 24 hz (or actually 23.976) because 24 hz in mkv container is converted to 60 hz while it stays in 24 hz in AVCHD structure (I do it with TSMuxer).
But it handles only FAT32, thus I simply have to split movies in 4 GB sized chunks in TSMuxer, but cuts are invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure.
And it can play DD+, thus you probably won't have to convert DD+ in another format (make a test with a short clip on your player).

[SeeMoreDigital]

On my player (Oppo 83), this is useful to get 24 hz (or actually 23.976) because 24 hz in mkv container is converted to 60 hz while it stays in 24 hz in AVCHD structure (I do it with TSMuxer).That's a shame. My Oppo 103 is able to output 23.976fps .mkv contained video at 24Hz without any issues...

[jdryyz]

So my HD-DVD ROM drive arrived yesterday. I temporarily have it connected via an IDE-to-USB adapter and the transfer rate is pretty slow. I am sure I can do better with it actually connected to the internal IDE cable. Fortunately, I have another open bay to put it in.

I was curious about DVDFab Passkey's "Rip to hard disk" option. Is this in any way different from just dragging and dropping the folders on the disc to a folder on my local hard drive? I see there's a little bit of automation it is doing with the disc title so it makes the process a little easier, but I was more curious if there is anything else going on. Just by having DVD Fab running in the background, I have already unlocked the disc.

jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I was curious about DVDFab Passkey's "Rip to hard disk" option. Is this in any way different from just dragging and dropping the folders on the disc to a folder on my local hard drive? No, not really. Not unless you miss some files by 'dragging-and-dropping'...

[jdryyz]

I figured as much. :) I will use the Rip to...option instead.

No, not really. Not unless you miss some files by 'dragging-and-dropping'...

[jdryyz]

I've made a number of successful rips so far with only one disc reporting read errors.

I used ClownBD to create a BD structure and it works well with the software BD player I used.

What version of MKVmerge do you recommend? Is this now referred to as MKVToolNix? I find the new interface to be a little confusing. I may hunt down an old release instead. I know I used this for some other project a few years back but have not kept up with it.

Are you saying I can remux directly into .mkv without doing a full re-encode? If so, that sounds like it will save a lot of time.


jdryyz,

Out of interest. How many HD-DVD's do you have?

A couple of years ago I backed-up the last of my HD-DVD's using DVDFab Passkey's to 'Rip to Hard Disk...' option. And then used MKVmerge to save them as 'main movie only' .mkv files...

Edit: I store all my backed-up movies on an NAS and watch/play them via my Oppo BDP-103 or 'smart TV's' ;)

[Music Fan]

What version of MKVmerge do you recommend?
8.3.0.

Are you saying I can remux directly into .mkv without doing a full re-encode?
Of course, that's just a container change.

[jdryyz]

That version still appears to use the new interface. Might as well go with the latest release (8.8.0 at the time of this post) unless there is another reason you suggest the one below.

Turns out I was able to navigate through 8.8.0 just fine and remuxed a file successfully.

The resulting .mkv file is 29.99 fps instead of 23.9, however, which I believe is a point of concern you mentioned in your original post (the "pulldown flag", correct?).

Is there a way to create proper 23.9 fps .mkv files for film content?

8.3.0.

[Music Fan]

That version still appears to use the new interface.
No, it lets the choice between the old (mmg.exe) and the new (mkvtoolnix-gui.exe) GUI.

Is there a way to create proper 23.9 fps .mkv files for film content?
Select 24/1001 as framerate (fps).

[jdryyz]

Ahh! I was only going by the "screenshots" I saw for the release version. Looks like I am going to be able to stick with 8.8.0 though.

I found the frame rate selection under "timecodes..." The option to change is called "Default duration/FPS". I see there is a 24p setting also. How would that differ from 24000/1001p?


No, it lets the choice between the old (mmg.exe) and the new (mkvtoolnix-gui.exe) GUI.


Select 24/1001 as framerate (fps).

[jdryyz]

I see now that 24000/1001p is the better option. It provides 23.9 vs 24 fps with the other setting.

However, I am now confused. I am seeing choppy playback with my software players now that this has changed. Perhaps the HD-DVD was not at 23.9 fps to begin with? It is film, not video.

I guess I will have to keep testing this out with other discs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I found the frame rate selection under "timecodes..." The option to change is called "Default duration/FPS". I see there is a 24p setting also. How would that differ from 24000/1001p?
Given that the video streams actual frame rate is already embedded within the original video stream, there should be no requirement for you to select a 'frame-rate' in MKVmerge GUI...

[jdryyz]

I tend to agree, except that I was surprised to see a 29.99fps rate for film content when playing back the rips using software and my Oppo BDP-93. Since I tried changing the frame rate to what I thought it should be (23.9) resulted in choppy playback I can only assume the discs I have ripped so far are sourced at 29.99 but that does not seem right if HD-DVDs are following standards for film-based content. Perhaps this was never part of the spec?

Now that I think of it more, HD-DVD is supposed to be just a hi-def extension of the DVD format and DVD never offered 24fps playback either as far as I know. A quick look at Wikipedia would seem to confirm this:

"Both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc support the 24p frame rate, but technical implementations of this mode are different among the two formats. Blu-ray Disc supports 24p with its native timing, while HD DVD uses 60i timing for 24p (replacing missing frames with "repeat field flags")"

So I will leave the frame rates alone!

Given that the video streams actual frame rate is already embedded within the original video stream, there should be no requirement for you to select a 'frame-rate' in MKVmerge GUI...

[jdryyz]

I have a couple more items to cover:

1) Playback of the .mkv files from my Oppo BDP-93 seems to work just fine. I even see TrueHD audio being identified. Although, I swear the title I ripped only had Dolby Digital +. Either there is some translation going on with MKVmerge or this is just how the Oppo 93 identifies the audio in this case.

Unfortunately, playback from my Oppo BDP-83 is not working out as well. I realize the 83's DLNA media playback capabilities are limited but I do have plenty of compatible .mkv files already in my collection, most of which I made using HandBrake.

What happens is the video is squished horizontally and there is no audio at all. The audio part is not too surprising but I did not expect a video problem like this. Perhaps there are some other adjustments I can make in MKVmerge or another remuxer I can try?

The Oppo 83 is my main player (for my Home Theater) not the Oppo 93 (long story) so it would be great if I can create .mkv files it does like.

2) How does one join multiple .EVO files to make one main feature .mkv? I thought I could just add more than one file in MKVmerge but it did not join them.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I tend to agree, except that I was surprised to see a 29.99fps rate for film content when playing back the rips using software and my Oppo BDP-93. Since I tried changing the frame rate to what I thought it should be (23.9) resulted in choppy playback I can only assume the discs I have ripped so far are sourced at 29.99 but that does not seem right if HD-DVDs are following standards for film-based content. Perhaps this was never part of the spec?
You've just reminded me that the (AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2) video stream (as used by the HD-DVD format) contains something called '3:2 pull-down'.

Sadly, MKVmerge GUI does not offer a tool to remove pull-down but the good news is an application called TSmuxerGUI (v2.6.12) does ;)


Cheers

[jdryyz]

Great! I already have tsMusxer installed for other reasons (one of which is ClownBD).

So I start with my ripped HD-DVD source, demux in tsMuxer with remove pulldown selected, then remux into .mvk with MKVmerge. The resulting .mkv file is now a proper 23.976 fps.

Playback is smooth with software players and Oppo BDP-93, still trouble with the 83. Sigh.

I also saw that in tsMuxer I can join files. This appears to be able to solve the problem of the HD-DVD main feature being split into two parts. Unfortunately, the resulting .mkv file has audio of of sync. Maybe there's a better solution to join .EVO files.

You've just reminded me that the (AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2) video stream (as used by the HD-DVD format) contains something called '3:2 pull-down'.

Sadly, MKVmerge GUI does not offer a tool to remove pull-down but the good news is an application called TSmuxerGUI (v2.6.12) does ;)


Cheers

[Music Fan]

You've just reminded me that the (AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2) video stream (as used by the HD-DVD format) contains something called '3:2 pull-down'.

Sadly, MKVmerge GUI does not offer a tool to remove pull-down but the good news is an application called TSmuxerGUI (v2.6.12) does ;)


Cheers
And also eac3to IIRC. HdBrStreamExtractor (a GUI for eac3to) also removes pulldown flag (IIRC, again, I forgot how I did exactly).

[jdryyz]

So the framerate problem has been licked and I will just have to stick with core audio formats in .mkv files if I expect them to work with the Oppo 83, but I still have not figured out the horizontal squeeze. I know the problem exists in the source and is carried through to BD structures I create with ClownBD. I tried using MakeMKV on a BD .iso I made and the .mkv it saved is squished horizontally. I am thinking it might be a 16:9 flag that is needed (since HD-DVD closely resembles the DVD spec) and the process of converting to BD does not provide the requirement. I tested a real BD that I ripped in the past and created an MKV using MakeMKV and the Oppo 83 had no trouble with it.

I see that both MKVmerge and tsMuxer have aspect ratio settings. I did some tests by picking the 16/9 setting and the resulting files were still squished. Maybe this is the correct place to look but I am just not picking the right setting?

[foxyshadis]

What is the actual physical resolution reported by MediaInfo? If it's already 1920x1080 then maybe it's actually hardcoded that way, and needs an even higher ratio. And have you tested with a PC player, to double-check?

[jdryyz]

I do not recall what resolutions are being reported. I will check out MediaInfo and see what the software players say.

I also discovered that the Oppo BDP-83 is not the only hardware having a problem with the HDDVD-sourced .mkv files. My Sony BDP-S790 will not play them at all. It calls them an "unsupported format". The Sony plays all my other .mkv files just fine.


What is the actual physical resolution reported by MediaInfo? If it's already 1920x1080 then maybe it's actually hardcoded that way, and needs an even higher ratio. And have you tested with a PC player, to double-check?

[jdryyz]

MediaInfo reports 1920x1080 (16:9) for both BD sourced and HDDVD sourced files. Did not see anything else unusual.

[SeeMoreDigital]

MediaInfo reports 1920x1080 (16:9) for both BD sourced and HDDVD source files. Did not see anything else unusual.Can you post what MediaInfo reports in full as a 'text' file?

[jdryyz]

Okay, here you go:

The first two have the horizontal squeeze, the last one is a .mkv re-encode from a MakeMKV file derived from a BD, not HD-DVD. It plays back fine.

Thought the variable frame rate in the first might have something to do with it, but the second one is constant and still has the squeeze. Oh, and I realize the first is at 29.99 fps but that does not matter for this particular problem.


~~~~~~~
General
Unique ID : 250225554815635423140436313209546506575 (0xBC3FB05AE6928364B2C3EE6D41E4814F)
Complete name : F:\Share\firewall.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 10.5 GiB
Duration : 1h 44mn
Overall bit rate : 14.4 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2016-02-03 01:07:49
Writing application : mkvmerge v8.8.0 ('Wind at my back') 64bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.3 + libmatroska v1.4.4
DURATION : 01:44:52.112000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 393257
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 503368960
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : mkvmerge v8.8.0 ('Wind at my back') 64bit
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 01:07:49
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES

Video
ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Codec ID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Bit rate : 13.4 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Original frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : E-AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_EAC3
Duration : 1h 44mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 480 MiB (4%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

General
Unique ID : 181329561948503471819148980586061223488 (0x886ACDA61CC747C3ECAADDCD92E7D640)
Complete name : F:\MakeMKV\liar liar.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 10.1 GiB
Duration : 1h 26mn
Overall bit rate : 16.7 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2016-02-03 21:17:08
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.9.9 (1.3.3/1.4.4) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Codec ID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate : 15.7 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.316
Stream size : 9.49 GiB (94%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:26:29.851333333
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 124432
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 10404202047
SOURCE_ID : 001011
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 21:17:08
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 26mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 396 MiB (4%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:26:29.856000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 162183
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 415188480
SOURCE_ID : 001100
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 21:17:08
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:13:41.445 : en:Chapter 02
00:18:46.208 : en:Chapter 03
00:20:10.918 : en:Chapter 04
00:22:29.848 : en:Chapter 05
00:26:34.050 : en:Chapter 06
00:32:59.394 : en:Chapter 07
00:38:16.085 : en:Chapter 08
00:41:59.058 : en:Chapter 09
00:45:52.583 : en:Chapter 10
00:49:24.878 : en:Chapter 11
00:53:10.729 : en:Chapter 12
00:57:07.757 : en:Chapter 13
01:11:07.846 : en:Chapter 14
01:16:03.725 : en:Chapter 15
01:20:40.460 : en:Chapter 16

General
Unique ID : 253010721971805002778354871318460252966 (0xBE5817B2A51170B31327FB4D6DF44326)
Complete name : F:\Share\Sinbad.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 16.9 GiB
Duration : 1h 52mn
Overall bit rate : 21.4 Mbps
Movie name : Sinbad
Encoded date : UTC
Writing application : HandBrake 0.10.2 2015060900
Writing library : Lavf55.12.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate : 20.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 038 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.85:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.419
Stream size : 15.4 GiB (91%)
Writing library : x264 core 142 r2479 dd79a61
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=20000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.19 GiB (7%)
Title : Surround
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Menu
00:00:00.000 : :Chapter 1
00:05:49.390 : :Chapter 2
00:13:30.518 : :Chapter 3
00:23:15.686 : :Chapter 4
00:31:28.761 : :Chapter 5
00:40:57.329 : :Chapter 6
00:51:02.476 : :Chapter 7
01:02:41.507 : :Chapter 8
01:15:43.831 : :Chapter 9
01:27:07.514 : :Chapter 10
01:37:20.543 : :Chapter 11
01:51:59.879 : :Chapter 12

[SeeMoreDigital]

The first two have the horizontal squeeze...
Thanks for the MediaInfo file reports...

As I suspected, the files you are having issues with have been encoded using VC-1 (instead of AVC) video.

By-the-way, the video stream on your Sinbad.mkv file has not been directly extracted from a disc. It's been re-encoded!

[jdryyz]

Yes, that is correct. Not surprising given that most HD-DVDs in my collection are in the VC-1 format. That was a standard encoding method at the time before AVC became the preferred choice. Could that alone be why my old Oppo 83 is having trouble or is something else to blame? The Oppo 83 has no trouble playing VC-1 encoded Blu-Ray discs.

Correct also on the last report. I threw that in there as an example of what most of my collection consists of that the 83 handles without fail.

Below is a real BD rip using MakeMKV: (the Oppo 83 does not squeeze it)


General
Unique ID : 294712748138204157882486592428796954220 (0xDDB79C546C71E1BAC31B3960FF7E466C)
Complete name : D:\MakeMKV\Sinbad.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 29.9 GiB
Duration : 1h 52mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 37.9 Mbps
Movie name : Sinbad
Encoded date : UTC 2016-02-03 22:09:10
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.9.9 (1.3.3/1.4.4) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 34.2 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 38.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.687
Stream size : 27.0 GiB (90%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:52:59.814708333
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 162553
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 29559028354
SOURCE_ID : 001011
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.19 GiB (4%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:52:59.818666666
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 635608
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 1278843296
SOURCE_ID : 001100
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.19 GiB (4%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:52:59.818666666
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 635608
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 1278843296
SOURCE_ID : 001101
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Text
ID : 4
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
DURATION : 01:50:58.506020833
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 1975
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 31614898
SOURCE_ID : 001200
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : MakeMKV v1.9.9 win(x64-release)
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2016-02-03 22:09:10
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES SOURCE_ID

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:05:49.182 : en:Chapter 02
00:13:30.392 : en:Chapter 03
00:23:15.560 : en:Chapter 04
00:31:28.636 : en:Chapter 05
00:40:57.121 : en:Chapter 06
00:51:02.350 : en:Chapter 07
01:02:41.299 : en:Chapter 08
01:15:43.705 : en:Chapter 09
01:27:07.305 : en:Chapter 10
01:37:20.417 : en:Chapter 11
01:51:59.671 : en:Chapter 12



Thanks for the MediaInfo file reports...

As I suspected, the files you are having issues with have been encoded using VC-1 (instead of AVC) video.

By-the-way, the video stream on your Sinbad.mkv file has not been directly extracted from a disc. It's been re-encoded!

[jdryyz]

Well what do you know. I see that I have around four HD-DVDs that contain AVC encodes. I completed a ClownBD conversion of one of them and then ripped to .MKV. Sure enough, it plays back fine on the Oppo 83.

So that's it then? No way to get the VC-1s in an .mkv container to play nice with the 83?

I still haven't tested what an actual burned disc will do....still hesitant to waste a good BD, but I know I have commercial Blu Ray discs with VC-1 encodes in my collection that play fine.

[SeeMoreDigital]

So that's it then? No way to get the VC-1s in an .mkv container to play nice with the 83?That I don't know, as I'm not familiar with the Oppo BDP-83. I can however confirm that extracted VC-1 video streams within .mkv play fine on the Oppo BDP-10x range of players.

One other thing you could try is re-muxing the extracted VC-1 video stream into the .m2ts container (using TSmuxerGUI). Obviously you'll loose chapter navigation but it would be interesting to know if the same VC-1 video stream is displayed at the correct aspect ratio on your BDP-83 ;)

[Music Fan]

I also have the Oppo 83 and it plays VC1.
The variable framerate in your MediaInfo report is not normal.
As I said above, you should try HdBrStreamExtractor to extract audio, video and subtitles ; it will join EVOs and will remove the VC1 pulldown flag. For the subtitles, you can use BDSup2Sub to convert to BDSup (then make OCR if you need srt, Subtitle Edit does it well).
Then make mkv, ts or AVCHD.
Personally, I always make AVCHDs with TSMuxer because it allows 2 things on the 83 :
- output 24hz as is without 3:2 pulldown conversion (what he does with mkv and all files)
- play movies bigger than 4 GB on a FAT32 partition (don't forget to split at 4 GB in TSMuxer, cuts will be invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure).
As there is no re-encoding, this is very fast.
For the ratio, there is nothing special to do with 1980*1080, just let it as is, it's square pixel encoding thus the PAR is 1:1 (because SAR = DAR with square pixel encodings), don't add 16/9 PAR.

[jdryyz]

The Oppo BDP-9x also has no trouble. :)

I will give the .m2ts container a try. Chapter selection over DLNA on the 83 is not supported with anything I currently have so it will not be missed. I do want to see the playback progression, however. This is lost sometimes with certain files and when transcoding.


That I don't know, as I'm not familiar with the Oppo BDP-83. I can however confirm that extracted VC-1 video streams within .mkv play fine on the Oppo BDP-10x range of players.

One other thing you could try is re-muxing the extracted VC-1 video stream into the .m2ts container (using TSmuxerGUI). Obviously you'll loose chapter navigation but it would be interesting to know if the same VC-1 video stream is displayed at the correct aspect ratio on your BDP-83 ;)

[jdryyz]

If it takes care of all that, I will give HdBrStreamExtractor a try also.

Your mention of FAT32 partitions raises the question, are you having success with VC1 because you are using local storage? I playback media to the 83 with a DLNA server, and as I stated before, I know the DLNA capabilities of the 83 are limited. This trouble I am having with VC-1 encodes could be just another limitation.

So basically what I am saying is, if I cannot play it over DLNA, I am not interested. :)

I have never tried playing an AVCHD over DLNA on the 83 but I have done so successfully with the 93.

Thanks for the tip on the aspect ratio. Once I saw that AVC-encoded HD-DVDs did not have the squeeze, I knew that aspect ratio settings have nothing to do with it.

I also have the Oppo 83 and it plays VC1.
The variable framerate in your MediaInfo report is not normal.
As I said above, you should try HdBrStreamExtractor to extract audio, video and subtitles ; it will join EVOs and will remove the VC1 pulldown flag. For the subtitles, you can use BDSup2Sub to convert to BDSup (then make OCR if you need srt, Subtitle Edit does it well).
Then make mkv, ts or AVCHD.
Personally, I always make AVCHDs with TSMuxer because it allows 2 things on the 83 :
- output 24hz as is without 3:2 pulldown conversion (what he does with mkv and all files)
- play movies bigger than 4 GB on a FAT32 partition (don't forget to split at 4 GB in TSMuxer, cuts will be invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure).
As there is no re-encoding, this is very fast.
For the ratio, there is nothing special to do with 1980*1080, just let it as is, it's square pixel encoding thus the PAR is 1:1 (because SAR = DAR with square pixel encodings), don't add 16/9 PAR.

[Music Fan]

If it takes care of all that, I will give HdBrStreamExtractor a try also.
Yes, that's a good GUI for eac3to, but you can also use directly eac3to with command lines.

Your mention of FAT32 partitions raises the question, are you having success with VC1 because you are using local storage?
I use external HDD because I don't want to store movies on my pc. And I believe the 83 doesn't manage Ntfs.

This trouble I am having with VC-1 encodes could be just another limitation.
I believe it's just a problem with extraction, it should be ok with HdBrStreamExtractor and a remux in ts or m2ts.

So basically what I am saying is, if I cannot play it over DLNA, I am not interested. :)

I have never tried playing an AVCHD over DLNA on the 83 but I have done so successfully with the 93.
I don't know if the 83 can play AVCHD over DLNA, I can try but I would be astonished if it does.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I playback media to the 83 with a DLNA server, and as I stated before, I know the DLNA capabilities of the 83 are limited. This trouble I am having with VC-1 encodes could be just another limitation...I have all of my HD-DVD.mkv file back-ups stored on a Synology NAS which are accessed from my Oppo (and TV's) via UPnP/DLNA.

When it comes to UPnP/DLNA limitations, which UPnP/DLNA server are you using? Have you checked its settings? As it might be 'transcoding' VC-1 video to say, MPEG-2 video!

[jdryyz]

Oh, I have tested so many DLNA solutions, it is ridiculous. I have settled on iSedora software that I run on a Mac but even it has problems (as in bugs). The Oppo 83 plays .MKVs natively over DLNA. .avi and .mp4 require transcoding.

So, no, I am not transcoding any of the recently created .mkv files.

I have all of my HD-DVD.mkv file back-ups stored on a Synology NAS which are accessed from my Oppo (and TV's) via UPnP/DLNA.

When it comes to UPnP/DLNA limitations, which UPnP/DLNA server are you using? Have you checked its settings? As it might be 'transcoding' VC-1 video to say, MPEG-2 video!

[jdryyz]

It is because of the lack of NTFS support that I was motivated to go with DLNA. That, plus I did not want a storage device hanging off of the player.

DLNA also provides central storage for my multiple players.

I use external HDD because I don't want to store movies on my pc. And I believe the 83 doesn't manage Ntfs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

jdryyz,

Out of interest, does the aspect ratio look okay when you play this 41MB VC-1.mkv sample file (https://www.sendspace.com/file/b22ncs)?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

I made some tests on the BDP-83 in DLNA with the server oShare ;
-VC1 is played (I tried with a 29.97 fps video in m2ts container)
-24 hz (23.976) is converted in 60 hz (tested with h264 in mkv container)
-AVCHD folders are considered as simple folders, thus benefits of AVCHD structure (24 hz, chaptering) are lost.

[jdryyz]

Sorry, that too is squeezed. Nice scene, though. :)

jdryyz,

Out of interest, does the aspect ratio look okay when you play this 41MB VC-1.mkv sample file (https://www.sendspace.com/file/b22ncs)?

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry, that too is squeezed. Nice scene, though. :)Hmmm...

Well if Music Fan is able to play/display the same 'sample file' okay on his BDP-83 via UPnP/DLNA then something must be wrong at your end...

[Music Fan]

You have to use the zoom on the BDP-83's remote to stretch in 16/9 when this happens, I already had this (little) problem.

[jdryyz]

Did he say he was able to or was that a friendly suggestion? :)

Something I should point out now since we both have Oppo 83s, I purposely do not have the latest firmware installed due a longstanding bug with playing SD content over DLNA. I wonder if it could be related to this. I doubt it if HD AVC files aren't squeezed.


Hmmm...

Well if Music Fan is able to play/display the same 'sample file' okay on his BDP-83 via UPnP/DLNA then something must be wrong at your end...

[jdryyz]

Sorry to report, using HdBrStreamExtractor did not help.

I was able to change the audio to the core format, so that was nice. I used MKVmerge to remux the streams into .mkv but the file was still squeezed.

Incidentally, I saw there is an option in HdBr to change the video from VC1 to MKV but when I selected this and extracted, I heard a loud "buzzzzzzz" noise. I assume that means there was a problem doing that. A shame. That could have saved a step.


I also have the Oppo 83 and it plays VC1.
The variable framerate in your MediaInfo report is not normal.
As I said above, you should try HdBrStreamExtractor to extract audio, video and subtitles ; it will join EVOs and will remove the VC1 pulldown flag. For the subtitles, you can use BDSup2Sub to convert to BDSup (then make OCR if you need srt, Subtitle Edit does it well).
Then make mkv, ts or AVCHD.
Personally, I always make AVCHDs with TSMuxer because it allows 2 things on the 83 :
- output 24hz as is without 3:2 pulldown conversion (what he does with mkv and all files)
- play movies bigger than 4 GB on a FAT32 partition (don't forget to split at 4 GB in TSMuxer, cuts will be invisible, thanks to the AVCHD structure).
As there is no re-encoding, this is very fast.
For the ratio, there is nothing special to do with 1980*1080, just let it as is, it's square pixel encoding thus the PAR is 1:1 (because SAR = DAR with square pixel encodings), don't add 16/9 PAR.

[jdryyz]

This did not work either. Darn!

One other thing you could try is re-muxing the extracted VC-1 video stream into the .m2ts container (using TSmuxerGUI). Obviously you'll loose chapter navigation but it would be interesting to know if the same VC-1 video stream is displayed at the correct aspect ratio on your BDP-83 ;)

[Music Fan]

Did he say he was able to or was that a friendly suggestion? :)
A suggestion, and I tried.

Something I should point out now since we both have Oppo 83s, I purposely do not have the latest firmware installed due a longstanding bug with playing SD content over DLNA. I wonder if it could be related to this. I doubt it if HD AVC files aren't squeezed.
You should install latest firmware, otherwise I can't help you furthermore.

Sorry to report, using HdBrStreamExtractor did not help.

I was able to change the audio to the core format, so that was nice. I used MKVmerge to remux the streams into .mkv but the file was still squeezed.
That's not related to the extraction, eac3to (with or without HdBrStreamExtractor) is useful anyway to extract correctly Hd-dvd content, especially VC1.

I tried using the zoom feature on my TV and the Oppo but neither gives the correct result.
A simple click on the zoom button works on my BDP-83 (with latest firmware) to "un-squeeze" SeeMoreDigital's video, don't touch to your TV zoom, this problem is only related to the Oppo.

[jdryyz]

A suggestion, and I tried.

So you tired it over DLNA but it still required using the zoom button? At any rate, using the zoom button even to quickly remedy the problem isn't the solution I had in mind.

You should install latest firmware, otherwise I can't help you furthermore.

I would love to if it didn't come with more bugs! The problem is unlikely to be solved at the point. Oppo isn't doing anything more with this old player. So I have to stay at the firmware I am at now.

That's not related to the extraction, eac3to (with or without HdBrStreamExtractor) is useful anyway to extract correctly Hd-dvd content, especially VC1.

I'm confused now. You suggested the problem was with extraction not what happens after. I tried a different extraction method but it did not make a difference. Should I have chose a different path to .mkv after the extraction? Oh, wait. I see that you said to go from HdBrStreamExtractor to .ts or .m2ts. I will give that a shot.

[jdryyz]

Some good news! I finally decided I would burn an .iso created with ClownBD and the disc contents playback flawlessly on the 83.

This reminded me that I need to try SeeMoreDigital's sample video from local media. Since it is so small, I can put it on a FAT32 USB drive. I am 99% sure it will play fine and I am just dealing with a DLNA incompatibility. I am content with that since I plan to have the 83 replaced at some point in the not-too-distant future when I can upgrade my AVR.

I may be making more discs now than I first planned. I will have to test out how the 83 handles DD+ and TrueHD audio (for my test, I chose Dolby Digital). I even have one HD-DVD in my collection that has a DTS-MA audio track.

I captured subtitles with the last ClownBD disc that was created but the disc acts as if they do not exist. Subtitles have always been a bit of a mystery to me. When available in .mkv files, they never looked good on the Oppo 82 or 93. I believe I need a separate file for them but if I selected all the other components to be assembled in the ClownBD process, I wonder why subtitles are the only thing not available.

[Stereodude]

eac3to can remove the pulldown flags from the video streams on the HD-DVD discs. The underlying content is progressive. It's been a while since I used ClownBD to convert HD-DVDs to Blu-rays. It has to remove it for blu-ray to make the streams BD compliant. I didn't try it for converting to mkv, so I'm not sure if it removes the pulldown flags when muxing to mkv.

[jdryyz]

Yes, ClownBD uses eac3to and it does a fine job of removing the pulldown flags. After creating .ISOs with ClownBD, the quickest path to an .mkv file for me is to use MakeMKV. It works great, but it does nothing to stop the .MKVs from being squeezed on my Oppo 83. Seems to be a DLNA-related matter at this point.


eac3to can remove the pulldown flags from the video streams on the HD-DVD discs. The underlying content is progressive. It's been a while since I used ClownBD to convert HD-DVDs to Blu-rays. It has to remove it for blu-ray to make the streams BD compliant. I didn't try it for converting to mkv, so I'm not sure if it removes the pulldown flags when muxing to mkv.

[Stereodude]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were having an aspect ratio problem. I thought you were having an issue with the framerate. I guess I skimmed the thread too quickly.

[jdryyz]

Not a problem. :)

Sorry, I didn't realize you were having an aspect ratio problem. I thought you were having an issue with the framerate. I guess I skimmed the thread too quickly.