MaestroSBT: subtitles problem?

[Ptepic]

I have started to make subtitles with MaestroSBT (because of the "poor" text quality of SubtitleCreator 2.3) but I don't understand how it works.

It creates a .sst file with these properties: "contrast (0 15 15 15)", so I change it manually to (15 15 15 0) to make the background transparent. But when I mux the dvd with muxman I see the background only. I figured out that I must change it to (15 15 0 15) to see something and the subtitles then have got the colors corresponding to E1, E2. So in the DVD I have the original subtitles with contrast (15 15 15 0) and this new one with (15 15 0 15). Can you please tell me how it works?

Thank you... (I am sorry, I am absolutely new to the topic of subtitles.)

[manono]

It creates a .sst file with these properties: "contrast (0 15 15 15)", so I change it manually to (15 15 15 0) to make the background transparent.
What did you do to make it Contrast (0 15 15 15)?

I couldn't even figure out how to make it change from what I always get, Contrast (15 15 15 0)?

I wrote a little mini-guide for MaestroSBT here (forum.videohelp.com/threads/349322-Best-way-to-convert-MKV-to-DVD-with-nice-looking-subtitle(s)?p=2187974#post2187974). Maybe it'll help (and maybe not). Also, scroll down a ways to my picture of the color masks screen to make sure yours looks the same.

[GrofLuigi]

Use DVDSubEdit to change transparency and colors.

GL

[Ptepic]

What did you do to make it Contrast (0 15 15 15)?

I didn't do anything... It's by default (at least by me) and I have no idea how to change it.

scroll down a ways to my picture of the color masks screen to make sure yours looks the same.

...I figured out it has no impact on the contrast.

But this is not the main problem because it is possible to change it in Notepad,

the question is, why must I change it to contrast: 15 15 0 15?

[manono]

the question is, why must I change it to contrast: 15 15 0 15?
I haven't a clue since I have used MaestroSBT over 1000 times and never yet seen anything but what I showed before. Could it have anything to do with the SSA files you feed into MaestroSBT? How are you creating them?

And as GrofLuigi wrote, it's easy enough to fix things in DVDSubEdit.

[Ptepic]

Could it have anything to do with the SSA files you feed into MaestroSBT? How are you creating them?

I tried Subtitle Workshop, Aegisub, SubResync ...always the same contrast. (Btw. what program do you use for it? I have heard Subtitle Workshop gives bad results)

And as GrofLuigi wrote, it's easy enough to fix things in DVDSubEdit

Yes, it is. Alternatively, I do it before muxing in notepad in .sst file.
But I would like to understand it: the original subtitles in the dvd have got the background transparent, the new ones must have the "p" transparent. How does it work?

[GrofLuigi]

How does it work?

I have always considered it as a 'feature' of the program (I don't have enough knowledge to call it a bug) that it assigns the pallette to SST the way it does. As far as I'm concerned, it might be inherent to the format (I hope not). :o

All I know is it works (after fixing in DVDSubEdit) and no standalone or software player has ever complained.

Just today I was again using it and I paid more attention to the Color Masks window (meaning playing with it) and the results were never what I expected. I only found a new way to break the colors so that even DVDSubEdit can't fix them - just select the grey as one of the colors.

And in general, every attempt to understand pallettes in DVD has given me instant and enormous headache.

[manono]

Btw. what program do you use for it?
I use Sub Station Alpha:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Sub-Station-Alpha

But I can't answer your main question as I can't even reproduce the problem. Just now I took an SRT and converted it to SSA with SubResynch, but MaestroSBT wouldn't accept it saying there were no styles. I ran it through Sub Station Alpha and then tried and got the same thing I always do. Then I took an SRT, opened it in Aegisub, saved it as ASS, renamed it to SSA, and MaestroSBT refused to accept that also. I ran it through Sub Station Alpha before opening it in MaestroSBT, with the same result.

So, my suggestion is to try and get Sub Station Alpha working. You can set up your own styles in there which MaestroSBT will honor (except an annoying problem with the size since, apparently, the two programs use two different scales for the size of the subs).

[Ptepic]

I have always considered it as a 'feature' of the program (I don't have enough knowledge to call it a bug) that it assigns the pallette to SST the way it does.

So, you too have to change the contrast to (15 15 0 15)? I thought I was alone :rolleyes:. At least manono uses (15 15 15 0), as he says.

So, my suggestion is to try and get Sub Station Alpha working

Thank you very much, but Sub Station Alpha gives me the same result (apart from positioning that works better in SubResync). But I find it logical as the .sst script is always almost the same. Therefore it seems GrofLuigi is right (see above)... For now, the question that remais is how does it come that I must change it to (15 15 0 15) and you to (15 15 15 0)?

[manono]

I don't have to change anything. The SSTs MaestroSBT makes for me are always (15 15 15 0). I don't have to fix anything in DVDSubEdit later on, and I usually fix the colors to my liking in PGCEdit after making the DVD. I don't suppose it has anything to do with your problem, but I always make antialiased subs. That is, in MaestroSBT, in the Rendering screen, I always tick 'Only one set of text, antialias, and outline colors'. Also, I'm making subs for 4:3 movies. But I just made two sets, one for 4:3 and another for 16:9 as I do when working with a 16:9 movie and it's still the same, Contrast (15 15 15 0), as I expected it would be. And I made some using the default 'Two colors for text, one for outline, no antialias' and still the same.

I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question.

[GrofLuigi]

I don't touch the SST file because I don't know what to do with it. I just pass it to Muxman.

Here is an example of one:

st_format 2
Display_Start non_forced
TV_Type PAL
Tape_Type NON_DROP
Pixel_Area (0 572)
Directory G:\VIDEO\DVD\VIDEO_TS\
Subtitle SubtitleName
Display_Area (0 2 719 574)
Contrast (0 15 15 15)

#
# Palette entries:
#
# 01 : RGB(255,255,255)
# 02 : RGB(134,134,134)
# 03 : RGB( 15, 15, 15)
#

PA (0 0 255 - - - )
E1 (255 0 0 - - - )
E2 (0 0 0 - - - )
BG (255 255 255 - - - )


SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
Color (3 2 1 1)
0001 00:00:11:20 00:00:15:22 SubtitleName_0001.bmp

Maybe it has to do with the SSA I create in Subtitle Workshop:

[Script Info]
Title: <untitled>
Original Script: <unknown>
ScriptType: v4.00

[V4 Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, TertiaryColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, AlphaLevel, Encoding
Style: Default,Arial Narrow,24,16777215,12632256,12632256,986895,-1,0,1,4,0,6,8,8,24,0,204

Of course, "Only one set of text, antialias, and outline colors" used.

GL

[fvisagie]

If you really want/need that answer, you'll just have to play around with MaestroSBT and your DVD authoring program (are you authoring to DVD?). I found the answer playing around, but it's been so long ago, I've forgotten, sorry :(.

I did manage to dig up some cryptic memos I made at the time, though. They all formed part of the same workflow, i.e. they should all reflect different parts of the same picture. They seem to indicate that one of the issues was the sequence in which MaestroSBT and muxman (in my case) read text, outline, background and anti-alias palette values. Here's that note:

Subtitle file format notes
In .SST file (for MuxMan):
# Color (O A T B) - MuxMan sequence

(SRT2SUP palette sequence:
BOTA)

Another note:
Then mux with Muxman as per usual. If using GFD, the .SST file should be used again to provide the palette.

Fixing up .SST file
Add:
# 04 : RGB(255, 0, 0)
Modify Color:
(3 2 1 4)

And another ;) - these are the MaestroSBT settings
Render to BMP
MaestroSBT - .sst BMP 4 bits comp; no wrap, intell or foresee; 720x576-2, 1 set, no sticky; WGBR; 25 25 fps

The '-2' was very important. Due to a bug in MaestroSBT something down the line in my workflow (muxman?) would get thrown out if that wasn't specified.

Good luck!

[fvisagie]

Btw. what program do you use for it?

I use Aegisub, save as SSA and input to MaestroSBT. That combination works very well for me.

So, my suggestion is to try and get Sub Station Alpha working. You can set up your own styles in there which MaestroSBT will honor (except an annoying problem with the size since, apparently, the two programs use two different scales for the size of the subs).

When I had a similar scaling problem with Aegisub/VSFilter (#911: VSFilter renders ASS/SSA characters +/-37 percent too small (http://devel.aegisub.org/ticket/911)) I was able to overcome it by using Scale X% and Scale Y% in Aegisub. This only works for the v4.00+/ASS format. It comes out like this:

[Script Info]
...
ScriptType: v4.00+
...

[V4+ Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, OutlineColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, Underline, StrikeOut, ScaleX, ScaleY, Spacing, Angle, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Encoding
Style: Default,Microsoft Sans Serif,16,&H00FFFFFF,&H0080FFFF,&H00000000,&H00000000,0,0,0,0,168.9046,160.9411,0,0,1,2,0,2,56,56,40,0


Hope this helps?

[Ptepic]

I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question.

...but still I thank you very much for your help. Your "mini-guide" helped me very much at the beginning!
It is a little bit strange that we use the same program with the same settings and it works differently but the important thing is that it works;)