What's this artifact and suggestions on how to fix it

[hunter_aran]

Hi! Not sure where to post this... I thought this was field blending but I'm not sure now as deblend filters do not affect it. It is like the frame has ghosting that anticipates the following frame, but only areas of high contrast like dark outlines. It doesn't happen all the time but it's a noticeable problem when the video is in motion so it bothers me a lot. I've tried using IVTC and/or filters like srestore and no solution. Any help is appreciated!

Edit: Lol I'm retarded. I posted the processed image, not the source! doh
Here's the processed image with the unwanted result:
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/blendproblen.jpg

Here are the three frames that when inverse telecined with AnimeIVTC mode=1 result in the artifact.

http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/blend1.jpg
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/blend2.jpg
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/blend3.jpg

[StainlessS]

It is like the frame has ghosting that anticipates the following frame

Curious what the following frame look like?

EDIT: You are not retarded, just a very special person.

[hunter_aran]

Curious what the following frame look like?

EDIT: You are not retarded, just a very special person.

lol ;)

Edit: Well it's not actually AnimeIVTC doing it in every example. Below is a series of 3 untouched frames where that weird artifact shows up even before inverse telecine is applied:
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/patrick1.jpg
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/patrick2.jpg
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/hunter_aran/patrick3.jpg

Look at Patrick's face and how the lines are actually lines from the following frame and in the next one the lines are from the previous frame!

[~SimpleX~]

Is it 3:2? If it's not, you can try replacing every frame with combing with prev. Like this:

conditionalfilter(selectevery(1, -1).trim(0,last_frame), last,"IsCombedTIVTC(blockx=32, blocky=32, mi=64, cthresh=4)","=","true")


UPD:
Oh, I should've read your last post before posting something. The line above won't help with non-interlaced frames.

[Lyris]

I've seen this before. Is it possible that the video was temporally denoised while it was in the interlaced (60i) domain?

[hunter_aran]

I've seen this before. Is it possible that the video was temporally denoised while it was in the interlaced (60i) domain?

I have no idea... These second group of frames are as they appear on the DVD so they mastered them that way. I hate crappy DVDs! Ugh

[Bloax]

It reminds me a bit of artifacts that come from overkill settings with GrainOptimizer. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=130611)

[hunter_aran]

It reminds me a bit of artifacts that come from overkill settings with GrainOptimizer. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=130611)

I checked it out and it does look similar but to me the GrainOptimizer seemed to introduce random lines, not related to the content of the adjacent frames...

I tried to use a denoiser to see if that would help and the settings I was using to combat dot crawl (mctemporaldenoise(settings="high", edgeclean=true, stabilize=true)) got rid of a lot of the lines but not all of them. I still wonder how exactly this problem was introduced. I guess "ghosting" or "blending" are completely wrong at describing this at this point.

[Didée]

The video has been (slightly) blurred vertically while in 30i (telecine) stage.

Why are your screenshots 712x478 ? You didn't crop a/o resize before IVTC, hopefully?

[TheSkiller]

I have seen this exact kind of artifact a lot and yes it is especially visible with animated content. It is a fault caused by a Kernelbob-like bob-deinterlacer which seems to be very common in the professional field. Even if your video is interlaced it might have been temporarily bob-deinterlaced for editing or normconversion (probably not in this case as Spongebob was produced in NTSC land).
You can pretty much replicate these artifacts with a clean source using the old LeakKernelBob(order=1,threshold=0, sharp=true) (just an example) and maybe reinterlace to taste.

I have yet not found a good way to get rid of these. These artifacts are getting more and more famous on TV these days due to required conversions between HD and SD which need an intermediate bobbing. :rolleyes:


Edit: I know that especially Spongebob is very screwed up in this regard, the PAL versions of these older episodes like to toggle between what looks like hard-deinterlaced jaggy 25p, field-shifted and normconverted-like interlace on a per-scene basis.

[hunter_aran]

The video has been (slightly) blurred vertically while in 30i (telecine) stage.

Why are your screenshots 712x478 ? You didn't crop a/o resize before IVTC, hopefully?

Sorry, I just did a frame capture from VDub directly and saved as JPEG so the AR is not as is it displays in a player. I crop at the end of my filter chain usually.

Well I guess there is no real solution then. I was hoping that whatever caused this could be reversed. Using mctemporaldenoise helped to minimize it so I will try encoding one episode and see if it still bothers me. It's just that the filter drops the encoding speed to <3fps so a ten minute episode takes like almost 2 HOURS per PASS. LOL well I've got time since I've already committed so much time into this. I want to do Batman: The Animated Series next so I hope the DVDs are not as messed up.

In a related issue, anyone ever get the iFade part of AnimeIVTC working? It says there's an error every time. One of the other problems with Spongebob is getting rid of the interlacing when a scene fades into another with bubbles floating across the screen. I thought iFade=true would help in that regard but I'm not sure.

Anyway, I really appreciate the help and explanation and if anyone has any other ideas, please let me know!

[Gavino]

anyone ever get the iFade part of AnimeIVTC working? It says there's an error every time.
See this post.

[frenshprince]

Those artefacts are results of an hardware denoiser like Snell&Wilcox.

At work, I have to deal a lot with this.
There is nothing you can really do, except correct it by hand in a NLE.

[Lyris]

Frenshprice - can you elaborate? What specifically causes this?