Taking submissions for a small encoder comparison

[CruNcher]

Yeah but a setting of -f -1 wouldn't have been wrong i would say for your case anyways :)

here is the DivX Plus HD Converter Result in Spec of 1080p 25 fps :)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mzynmnnjj0d

Allgemein
Vollständiger Name : C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Administrator\Eigene Dateien\Eigene Videos\DivX Movies\parkjoy(4).mkv
Format : Matroska
Dateigröße : 17,0 MiB
Dauer : 19s 960ms
Gesamte Bitrate : 7 146 Kbps
Kodierendes Programm : DivXMKVMux 3.4.1.0004
verwendete Encoder-Bibliothek : libDivXMediaFormat 3.4.1.0004

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format-Profil : High@L4.0
Format-Einstellungen für CABAC : Ja
Format-Einstellungen für ReFrame : 3 frames
Muxing-Modus : Container profile=Unknown@4.0
Codec-ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Dauer : 19s 960ms
Bitrate : 7 004 Kbps
Breite : 1 920 Pixel
Höhe : 1 080 Pixel
Bildseitenverhältnis : 16:9
Bildwiederholungsrate : 25,000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Auflösung : 8 bits
Colorimetrie : 4:2:0
Scantyp : progressiv
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.135
Stream-Größe : 16,7 MiB (98%)
Sprache : Englisch
colour_primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
transfer_characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
matrix_coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Still the TV scale stays in the Conversion Process.

Hmm why not compare that with the old Consumer Nero Recode (Ateme) ;) result coming :D (in a 2 pass of course like DivX does it)

It's crazy how complex Consumer stuff feels for People who know exactly what they want ;) (you really get lost without a CLI with all the option naming and stages of encoding they put in this stuff that also seem to many degrees totally useless).

[poisondeathray]

I know it was suggested earlier, and not to derail the thread, but I think a blu-ray comparison should eventually be done and be relevant for more people (than 1080p50). It could be done on this sequence with PAL slowdown

e.g.
SelectOdd() #or SelectEven()
AssumeFPS(24000,1001)

[shon3i]

I know it was suggested earlier, and not to derail the thread, but I think a blu-ray comparison should eventually be done and be relevant for more people (than 1080p50). It could be done on this sequence with PAL slowdown

e.g.
SelectOdd() #or SelectEven()
AssumeFPS(24000,1001)
And more H264 encoders can participate such as Sony, CCE HD.

[CruNcher]

maybe Arcsofts Cuda Encoder wouldn't also crash that way ;)
I find recreating the X264 Demo Blu-Ray with each contender would be even a much better idea (especially as it is a very restricted encoding scenario where every encoder needs to be very well optimized) :)

[Atak_Snajpera]

And more H264 encoders can participate such as Sony, CCE HD.
I doubt they have any chances to look at least as good as Ateme V2.
Btw. This is how i compare samples http://www.mediafire.com/file/mzamgrobjgd/Samples.7z

x264 vs DivX Plus HD Converter
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9611/stackhorizontalavssnaps.png

Those blocks on tree remind me of Quake 1 without 3dfx card :)

[poisondeathray]

I find recreating the X264 Demo Blu-Ray with each contender would be even a much better idea (especially as it is a very restricted encoding scenario where every encoder needs to be very well optimized) :)

I think that's a good idea. IMO, the more tests and data points, the better. As you said earlier , a single test is far from conclusive, and care must be taken not to broadly generalize the results.

Most consumer camcorders don't shoot 24pN , they shoot 60i or 50i. Most people won't have access to film transfers or 24pN professionally shot content. As much as I personally hate interlacing, it's a common format and I think adding a comparison of interlaced blu-ray efficiency would also be relevant.

Anyways, lets finish this thread first, then maybe start a new one for other comparisons

[CruNcher]

Here is one more fun Encode hehe

Arcsofts (own no Nvidia Core) Cuda Encoder (its fast but you gonna see why ;) )

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dyzy24yzhmf

[Atak_Snajpera]

Arcsofts Cuda Encoder (its fast but you gonna see why )
epic fail :) this peace of s**t is even worse than mpeg2 :) Also cuda sample uses more bits 18mbps vs 14mbps.

[CruNcher]

yep i guess thinks like no CABAC awful SUBME low quality motion search paired with a bad RC play into this result :P

btw here the same using a CQ of 42 it hit the bitrate much better that way ;) (though visually you still get a blockfest)
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?22j5jw334wk

[Atak_Snajpera]

I must say that this sample is absolutely killer for almost all codecs. Only x264 and ateme v2 survived :) Once again x264 is work of art. I didn't expect such huge difference at the beginning :eek:

I can't wait to see Ati's encoder result :)

[CruNcher]

yep it's even more extreme then Parkrun already was, more motion more details more colors and nicer overall location (tod) :D

[Atak_Snajpera]

it clearly separates boy from men :)

[RunningSkittle]

tried several times to get ati encoder to work, fails with every type of input :(

[shon3i]

I doubt they have any chances to look at least as good as Ateme V2. MC 8.5 by hair does better job on some frames, but that is my taste ;p, anyway CCE HD and Sony encoder are not another encodres in try, they are realy efficient, but are limited to L4.1. I think that this test will be probably more interesting because most of H264 encoder are limited to L4.1 even GPU ones (Badaboom)

We can do this latter ofc :)

[mariush]

tried several times to get ati encoder to work, fails with every type of input :(

I got it to work but with 25fps... basically just wrote in the avs script assumefps(25).

And as a note, it's the 10.4 avivo encoder version but with an old Control Panel, I believe 10.1 or even older ( it says Catalyst™ Control Center Version 2009.0925.1707.28889) , because I can't upgrade the CCC anymore on Windows 2003 (due to the stupid installer they use now).

The encoder and the driver I can install by running the msi files or using the "update driver" in the Control Panel.

So I don't know if the encoder looks differently now, I see only the basic select source, choose 1080p h264 and bitrate between 8 and 25 mbps.

On the link below, it's h264 and mpeg2 versions, titles say it all.
It's almost impossible to get it to 17000 KB though.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=437ae816991c299241446e35a78dc4638eddb5f1ab1d0cf6f85d402b9fc3640c

All files should pop up there in about 15 minutes from this post - they're being uploaded as I write this

[Boolsheet]

tried several times to get ati encoder to work, fails with every type of input :(
Huh, you mean the Avivo thing right?
Works here on Windows XP 32 bit, Radeon HD 4870, Catalyst 10.4 and a VfW codec (UT Video).
The encoder doesn't like 1080p50 at all. The stream gets converted to 1920x2160 with a funky aspect ratio of 2:1 and every odd frame is gone, so it's back to 25 fps.

Slowing it down to 25 helps, size is still a little off: 17842 KiB (http://www.mediafire.com/file/yvjmzwczqgw/park_joy_1080p25_ati_avivo_enc_4870.mp4)
I let it encode a 3 minute loop of park joy and cut out a piece that hit the size: 16949 KiB (http://www.mediafire.com/?41memwetynw) (note: fps set manually to 50)

No CABAC, GOP size of 30, no B frames... I think i'm configuring this wrong.
Can someone help me get that slider in the right position? ;)
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/551/atienc1.th.png (http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/551/atienc1.png)

I didn't dig around the registry to find more settings and a quick search with google suggested nothing that it could be tweaked.

[CruNcher]

Didn't the Ati traytools guy coded something that you could directly access the Encoder with his own GUI :) ? (more settings)
on the other side you could try another Stream Encoder or someone that makes use of Atis Encoder API it im not sure though what Arcsofts MediaConverter Platinium is but it supports Cuda as well as Ati Stream, so get the trial http://www.arcsoft.com/estore/software_title.asp?ProductCode=AMC4 and try that too, but if they made it as fast and with the same goal as the Cuda Encoder it wont be very good @ all ;) Another Consumer one with Stream support would be http://www.cyberlink.com/downloads/trials/mediashow-espresso/requirements_en_US.html

[kolak]

I doubt they have any chances to look at least as good as Ateme V2.
Btw. This is how i compare samples http://www.mediafire.com/file/mzamgrobjgd/Samples.7z

x264 vs DivX Plus HD Converter
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9611/stackhorizontalavssnaps.png

Those blocks on tree remind me of Quake 1 without 3dfx card :)

Not <15Mbit, but pass 20Mbit it's a bit different story.


Andrew

[Atak_Snajpera]

Arcsofts MediaConverter Platinium is but it supports Cuda as well as Ati Stream, so get the trial http://www.arcsoft.com/estore/softwa...oductCode=AMC4
What a peace of s**t! I had to encode first to lossless avi. Maximum bitrate is 10mbps (PS3 high quality :) It was a waste of time. All gpu encoders are some kind of sick joke. Stupid GUIs and terrible quality.

Not <15Mbit, but pass 20Mbit it's a bit different story.
MP2 audio is also good at high bitrates and so what? Compression is supposed to reduce file size and maintain quality. Somehow x264 and atemev2 is able to do good job at 15Mbps.

[Boolsheet]

ATI Xcoder GUI by Ray Adams has indeed more options, but none of them really change anything. Could be hardware specific.
The other GUIs. Yeah, Atak_Snajpera said it. :)

[kolak]

What a peace of s**t! I had to encode first to lossless avi. Maximum bitrate is 10mbps (PS3 high quality :) It was a waste of time. All gpu encoders are some kind of sick joke. Stupid GUIs and terrible quality.


MP2 audio is also good at high bitrates and so what? Compression is supposed to reduce file size and maintain quality. Somehow x264 and atemev2 is able to do good job at 15Mbps.

Yes, but try to use F1 car in the city. Some things are design for specific use- x264, Ateme are very good at low bitrates, because this is what they were designed for. BD encoding is different- it's all about transparency with the source, not to achieve watchable video at the smallest file size.
x264 can be also tweaked for this and than it would definitely be ahead of any other BD encoder. For now it's very close, but not a clear winner (as for low bitrates).
Another thing is that BD encoders are limited compared to settings use in this test, so forget about them during this test.


Andrew

[mariush]

I don't even think it's worth uploading Cyberlink's MediaShow result... it has absolutely NO settings, you can just choose between 720x480, 1440x1080, 1920x1080 and another one.
The bitrates are hard coded and can't be changed - in the 1920x1080's case it's locked at 13 mbps. It does look like it uses ATI Stream but maybe just to decode the source clip (so the answer would be no, because it's a 50fps lagarith encoded park joy), because in the Control Center the GPU usage is 6% (on Radeon 4850).

The result is a M2TS file, 37 MB, at 54.940059 fps, INTERLACED. Ridiculous...

ok , here's the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?gqxgmzibz0e

[creamyhorror]

From my point of view, even bad results should be included, so people know just how bad they are
(especially when they're googling for that encoder to see if it's acceptable). It's good to test as wide a range of common encoders as practically possible, since you don't want to leave the exaggerated claims of lousy products unexamined.

[tetsuo55]

I agree with creamyhorror, scientifically correct research/testing cares about all the results, not only the good ones.

[aegisofrime]

From my point of view, even bad results should be included, so people know just how bad they are
(especially when they're googling for that encoder to see if it's acceptable). It's good to test as wide a range of common encoders as practically possible, since you don't want to leave the exaggerated claims of lousy products unexamined.

Totally agree. I also hope that somebody will do a speed and quality test of x264 and Badaboom. I am seriously sick of arguing with people who think that Badaboom is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Totally agree. I also hope that somebody will do a speed and quality test of x264 and Badaboom. I am seriously sick of arguing with people who think that Badaboom is the best thing since sliced bread.
I agree.

[Dark Shikari]

I'm only on planning to omit the ones that are pure comedy, e.g. Bink, since they will ruin the 0-10 point scale ;)

Anything H.264 is not likely to be bad enough to be that laughable.

How about giving me a Badaboom sample so I can use it? :)

[Atak_Snajpera]

I see no reason to use 0-10 scale. For me: x264 - excellent , atemev2 - very good , rest - awful. End of story.

[shon3i]

How about giving me a Badaboom sample so I can use it? Level 4.1 30fps? I can send you right now.

[Dark Shikari]

Level 4.1 30fps? I can send you right now.30? Just use 25 and halve the bitrate.

[kolak]

30? Just use 25 and halve the bitrate.

Is half bitrate fair?
I would expect that it should be smaller reduction- maybe 30%?


Andrew

[MasterNobody]

Is half bitrate fair?
I would expect that it should be smaller reduction- maybe 30%?


Andrew
All fair while resulting file is near 17000KB. It doesn't matter at what speed frames played. So half fps mean half bitrate because it course the sample to be two times longer.

[kolak]

All fair while resulting file is near 17000KB. It doesn't matter at what speed frames played. So half fps mean half bitrate because it course the sample to be two times longer.

I've removed half of the frames, not assumed 25fps.


Andrew

[Dark Shikari]

I've removed half of the frames, not assumed 25fps.


AndrewDon't do that. Just assume 25fps.

Any removing of frames will not give a fair result.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Yup. You can just reset the frame rate again when muxing :)

~MiSfit

[shon3i]

Badaboom 1.2.1.74

Settings used:
Assumed 25fps
RC: VBR
Profile@Level: Main@4.1
Entropy Coding: CABAC
Max GOP Size: 250

http://www.mediafire.com/?ioo1mzmr2ni

[aegisofrime]

Noob question warning! I have a feeling its going to be asked sooner or later so I will just ask it now.

How do I play .264 files without having to mux it to mkv first? All google tells me is how to play H.264 files.

[Midzuki]

How do I play .264 files without having to mux it to mkv first?

MPlayer.

[aegisofrime]

MPlayer.

Thanks! I grabbed Lord Mulder's package and it works great!

[Keiyakusha]

So, judging by some nice pictures that DS posted somewhere, we already can see that x264 beats most of the participants. Isn't it?

[Gser]

Gonna do an encode with Elecard Converter Studio as soon as I finish downloading the video file. 1mbps connection ftl :(

[shon3i]

Gonna do an encode with Elecard Converter Studio as soon as I finish downloading the video file. 1mbps connection ftl :(
I alredy done encode of Elecard.

[Neiromaster]

Avi file:
http://mysif.ru/Avi/park_joy_sif1.avi

File size 16810 kilobytes.

Compression script:
RawSource("park_joy_1080p.y4m")
AddBorders(0,0,0,8)

Compression settings:
Single pass quality based
Visual distortion: 74
Maximum I-frame interval: 250
Color quantization scaling: 34
Additional quantizer: 64

It is interesting to compare with VP8 :)

[Gser]

How about Sorenson h.264?

[Biggiesized]

Doesn't Sorenson use the MainConcept SDK?

[Gser]

Doesn't Sorenson use the MainConcept SDK?

* Main Concept H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2
* On2 VP6 Pro
* Sorenson H.264 Pro
* Sorenson MPEG-4 Pro (for Visual Simple Profiles and Visual Profile encoding)
* Sorenson Spark Pro
* QuickTime Encoders
* Real Media Encoders

Don't know what their codec is based on though.

[poisondeathray]

QT gamma shift "workaround"

Quicktime Pro 7.6.5 on Windows (7.6.6 is known to be buggy)
keyframes every 250
best quality (2pass)

http://www.mediafire.com/?mjyz3wqttyy

Most people don't care for QT, but for anyone interested:

one workaround for the dreaded "quicktime gammashift bug" is to use uncompressed avi with the fourcc "IYUV" . There is one that you use for free with "Drastic Codecs" (google it) . For some reason, some other fourcc uncompressed Y'CbCr video can elicit the shift

[morqueozwald]

Quicktime 7.5.5 Windows encode without gamma shift I made a while back, which comes closer to target file size than previous post. Used same methodology to get uncompressed into Quicktime.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2ym5yzzugmm/QTPJ.mp4

Settings used:
Keyframe: 250 frames
Bitrate 14200
Multipass encoding

[creamyhorror]

QT gamma shift "workaround"
Since Quicktime's gamma shift bug is still not fixed and isn't that easy to get around, shouldn't Quicktime be penalised some way in the test? E.g. by leaving the gamma shift in and making the difference clear in the screenshot comparisons. You'd want to bring more awareness of the bug, after all, since it definitely affects quality.

[Tudi]

Day 1 noob posting some proprietary encoder results :). Xennon encoders are made for live encoding for mobile streaming. They are not optimized for quality only. Since 3gp standard is pretty restrictive only h264 baseline profile is supported :
MPEG4 normal : http://www.mediafire.com/?y2ltdm0y2gw
MPEG4 sharp : http://www.mediafire.com/?5vunmrdmzqc
X264 : http://www.mediafire.com/?mdyzwyydjhm

Thanks for making this collection of encoders. It really helped me make a decision.