Questions to GUI users on available GUIs

[turbojet]

cce & hcenc = both mpeg-2 encoders. That's not redundant for you ?

If it was codec yes but I listed encoders instead to more precise.

yeah, for basic tasks it's ok but not recommended for BD audio streams extraction (especially for audio gaps correction)...

Actually BD-Rebuilder does multi-m2ts titles with tsmuxer demuxing, it takes a lot of trickery though.

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

About 15 years computing, 10 years encoding.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

From what I can remember just 'The Big Three' DVD guide and 'Gordian Knot' guide on Doom9.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

Just the ones I use somewhat regularly:
Gordian Knot: Not very good workflow (no DVD/BD input stream selection), and missing x264, MPEG2 encoding. Only gui to offer a useful compression check which is very helpful.

MeGUI: Flexible but workflow is not good (no DVD/BD input, stream selection) requires lots of mouse clicks, some time, and a lot of windows to get an encode started. No accurate AVCHD encoding, no DTS encoding.

RipBot264: Workflow could be a little better with subtitle handling when loading a BD. Only app I know of that can handle every sub I've thrown at it thanks to BDSup2Sub. Very small font, the only app I have to change resolution or magnify to use. Lots of waiting and lots of clicks to get things going. No xvid/mpeg2 encoding. Creates some empty folders that are never used. No DTS encoding, doesn't like some audio streams.

AVCHDCoder: Workflow is very good with good stream selection. Don't like the wizard feel. Resizing to 720p with subs often fails. I like the simplicity by only having very few options but some probably won't. A few computers I use just come up with blank screens for any java application even the java control panel, I see it's a common problem without a solution so it may not be usable for many. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support.

BD-Rebuilder: Great workflow. Simplicity is good but entering options in .ini can be a hassle. Resize to 720p fails often. Calculation could be improved. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support. Lacks ivtc support.

DVD-Rebuilder: Great workflow, this is the closest I've seen to a flawless gui except the lack of ivtc support forces me to do a lot of encodes with a bunch of other apps and the lack of a compression check although cce status window gives out quants which is almost as good.

Simple x264 launcher: It's simple which is it's strength and also it's weakness. I choose this when I do the rare crf encode because x64 is faster then x86. Often I do 2 pass encodes where x264 is slower so I choose x86 batch file.

I've tried sx264, HDConvertToX, StaxRip, MediaCoder and from what I can remember they all lacked a decent workflow, no avchd calculation, very little sub support, a lot of encoding options but can be overwhelming.

ConvertXtoDVD has excellent input support and a very good workflow too bad the video encoding leaves a lot to be desired and only DVD output.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

Look at answer 3.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

BD/DVD sources. Output to avi (xvid), avchd, bd (bdrb full backup), dvd (full backups only), mkv.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

Used to do 10-15 a month but now down to 2-5 a month, recession.

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

A few clicks and less than 5 minutes, preferably most of that time is for compression test.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

I still use a lot of gui's but that's kind of an issue for me. I feel that at the most 3 gui's should do everything I want to do. When it comes to mkv there isn't a gui with a good workflow and I can usually demux/mux/subtitle/audio conversion using an x264 batch file faster with less hassle. With avchd lately I've been doing it mostly manual because I burn to dvd5 and usually resize to 720p and got tired of avchdcoder and bd-rebuilder throwing an error because it couldn't resize the english subs I really could use (not very good at hearing). Using RipBot264 takes longer then running the apps independently.

[Ryo94]

1) 15 years in computing, encoding video since 2000

2) Not to many (less than 20 for sure)

3) GUIs tried: Flaskmpeg, Virtualdub, Staxrip, Avidemux, Formatfactory, Automen

4) Virtualdub since v1.3 (almost for 10 years)
Staxrip since v0.9.2 (3 years ore or less)

5) DVD and captures from camcorders and analog TV

6) A dozen per month more or less

7) 10-30 minutes

8) Lack of features, ugly interface, no response from the author/s when reporting bugs

[Atak_Snajpera]

RipBot264: Workflow could be a little better with subtitle handling when loading a BD. Only app I know of that can handle every sub I've thrown at it thanks to BDSup2Sub. Very small font, the only app I have to change resolution or magnify to use. Lots of waiting and lots of clicks to get things going. No xvid/mpeg2 encoding. Creates some empty folders that are never used. No DTS encoding, doesn't like some audio streams.

Who cares about xvid and mpeg2 when we have ultra efficient x264 codec? If you like ancient codecs why not go back to mpeg1. Also don't tell me that you can prepare and encode Blu-ray faster using only CLI.

Blu-ray footage MUST be demuxed to .mkv in order to get one single file. eac3to also must remove audio gaps. Using TSmuxer for this purpose is not a good idea!

Here what I do:
1) I select .m2ts directly from Bluray-disc (AnyDVD HD running in background)
2) after demuxing with eac3to (30-40 min) I'm ready to encoder first movie.
3) few easy clicks and I'm ready to start encoding.

And now enlighten me how do you encode your BD?
Let me guess.
1) You copy whole disc with AnyDVD HD on Harddrive
2) Then you manually use eac3to to get necessary streams
3) Then you waste time for .avs script in notepad
4) Then you manually use BDSup2Sub in order to resize subs to 720p (if your target is AVCHD)
5) Then you have to calculate bitrate for DVD (Windows calculator?)
6) And finally after encoding you are ready to mux all files.

If we had the same computers I'm 100% sure that I would finish my task with ripbot faster than you do it manually.

No DTS encoding, doesn't like some audio streams.
Who cares about DTS if AC3 640 kbps has the same transparent quality as DTS 1.5Mbps!

AVCHDCoder: Workflow is very good with good stream selection. Don't like the wizard feel. Resizing to 720p with subs often fails. I like the simplicity by only having very few options but some probably won't. A few computers I use just come up with blank screens for any java application even the java control panel, I see it's a common problem without a solution so it may not be usable for many. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support.

BD-Rebuilder: Great workflow. Simplicity is good but entering options in .ini can be a hassle. Resize to 720p fails often. Calculation could be improved. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support. Lacks ivtc support.

AVCHCoder/BD-Rebuilder as name suggests is not a XVID/MPEG2/MKV encoder. Can't you understand that if something is for everything it is for nothing.

[setarip_old]

@ryo94

VirtualDub is only a GUI?

Naaaaaaaaaaaah...

[Ryo94]

@ryo94

VirtualDub is only a GUI?

Naaaaaaaaaaaah...

@setarip_old

You know, I was tempted to not include it in the list but after seeing it in this main post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129748) treated implicitly as another GUI when it say "Virtualdub, Virtualdubmod, and Avidemux have their own forum" right after the list of GUIs I decided to include it, anyway like the author sites's say it's a "video capture/processing utility" with basic edition capabilities :)

BTW if you're the same setarip from divx-digest I remember getting some good tips from you and other kind users regarding to virtualdub and dvd2avi in that forum when I was doing my first steps in video encoding and dvd ripping around 2001, if it's the case, Thanks :)

[stax76]

@turbojet

You mention work flow very often and say StaxRip don't has a decent work flow, can you please elaborate? Architecture, design, usability and work flow is something I'm concerned, I think RipBot264 and StaxRip are doing good in this regard. I don't no when you tried StaxRip last time, in recent weeks quite a lot improvements were made. You can find a relative stable preview version here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1353805#post1353805). It does good in the DVD/DVB area but lacks in the Blueray/AVCHD area. The growing format jungle makes it very difficult in particular if you have to merge things of different nature like DVD/DVB/Blueray and all other sources into a common interface to support everything in and everything out. It's a lot easier when you focus on a particular area like just DVD or AVCHD or Bluray or support only a limited or restricted feature set or when you design your application as loosely coupled toolbox without no real work flow. Authors are forced to focus on the basics and limit the feature set to what they use personal. Trying to do everything will result in everything being half baked.

[twazerty]

@tubojet, I totally agree with stax76. The more you put into a GUI the worser everything works. Workflow and simplicity is the power of AVCHDCoder and it will get even better in the feature. When you add a second output format like DVD you need to build a lot of stuff to achieve that. It cost you more time to support and develop all this. And nobody want Half Baked stuff.

[setarip_old]

@Ryo94BTW if you're the same setarip from divx-digest I remember getting some good tips from you and other kind users regarding to virtualdub and dvd2avi in that forum when I was doing my first steps in video encoding and dvd ripping around 2001, if it's the case, Thanks Nice to see you in more pleasant/professional surroundings ;>}

[turbojet]

Who cares about xvid and mpeg2 when we have ultra efficient x264 codec?

Anyone that wants to play their BD on DVD players.

Blu-ray footage MUST be demuxed to .mkv in order to get one single file. eac3to also must remove audio gaps. Using TSmuxer for this purpose is not a good idea!

BD-Rebuilder flawlessly does it with tsmuxer. Most BD's I see are single pgc which tsmuxer directly demuxes in less than half the time eac3to takes.

Also don't tell me that you can prepare and encode Blu-ray faster using only CLI.

Here what I do:
1) I select .m2ts directly from Bluray-disc (AnyDVD HD running in background)
2) after demuxing with eac3to (30-40 min) I'm ready to encoder first movie.
3) few easy clicks and I'm ready to start encoding.

And now enlighten me how do you encode your BD?
Let me guess.
1) You copy whole disc with AnyDVD HD on Harddrive
2) Then you manually use eac3to to get necessary streams
3) Then you waste time for .avs script in notepad
4) Then you manually use BDSup2Sub in order to resize subs to 720p (if your target is AVCHD)
5) Then you have to calculate bitrate for DVD (Windows calculator?)
6) And finally after encoding you are ready to mux all files.

If we had the same computers I'm 100% sure that I would finish my task with ripbot faster than you do it manually.

With single m2ts BD's I:
- copy/paste avs template, dss line to the 5 numbers of the m2ts = 30 seconds max
- open batch file, put in estimated bitrate, if 2 hours 4000, if 1.5 5000, etc. I've only found out it only has to be in a general area, drag avs to batch file and start a command that has first and second pass = 30 seconds max
- open m2ts with tsmuxer, choose streams and demux = 1 minute of manual work, 5 minutes of computer work
- convert subs to 720p (if needed), I use a context menu hack = 5 seconds
- calculate with avchd coder where I can see a gui (2-3 minutes) or RipBot264 (10-15 minutes due to analyze on almost every click and converting subs that are already the correct resolution)
- in rare situations I encode DTS to 768 = 1 minute of setup, 10 minutes to process
- enter bitrate in batch file = 5 seconds
- when done mux with tsmuxer = 1 minute of work, 5 minutes of computing

If it's multi-m2ts I use HD extractor in megui, it takes about a minute of setup and 10 minutes to process which is about half the time it takes running eac3to cli for some reason.

In total that's about 5 minutes of preparation time (10 minutes total) for single m2ts, 6 minutes of work for mutli-m2ts (20 minutes total). That's a bit faster than your 30-40 minutes. I'll admit that I'm doing a little more work which could be greatly minimized with the right code.

I also use the rate factor calculated by x264 in the first pass to judge whether or not to increase/decrease resolution for DVD5 (rarely use DVD9).

Who cares about DTS if AC3 640 kbps has the same transparent quality as DTS 1.5Mbps!

May be to you but not for me.

AVCHCoder/BD-Rebuilder as name suggests is not a XVID/MPEG2/MKV encoder. Can't you understand that if something is for everything it is for nothing.

I realize that but most mature gui's have multiple output formats.DVD-Rebuilder, GK, MeGUI. When you already have an avs how tough is it to send a command line to a cli encoder and another line to a muxer? In batch that would take about a minute to code if you are familiar with the command lines. As for your everything for nothing, look at ffdshow, convertxtodvd, gordianknot, megui. All very popular with multiple functionality. While I can understand it might be overwhelming to a single programmer if there was a team project for a gui I don't think it would be overwhelming at all.

I'm currently working on a batch file that will do most of this. So far in about 5 hours of work I've gotten BD input, playlist, audio, sub selection, audio/sub conversion,resolution option, x264 settings with 3 profiles (avchd, bd, one I use for mkv that autocrops) and muxes with tsmuxer or mkvmerge afterwards. Next I'll either work on overhead calculation or compression check, the latter being much easier, and then xvid, cce, hcenc encoding and later on dvd input. I expect it to take me another 5-10 hours of code (much more time for overhead calculation tests). It's nothing fancy but it'll do the job and only takes about a minute to setup (half of that is eac3to scanning) and so far 8 keystrokes are needed.

@turbojet

You mention work flow very often and say StaxRip don't has a decent work flow, can you please elaborate? Architecture, design, usability and work flow is something I'm concerned, I think RipBot264 and StaxRip are doing good in this regard. I don't no when you tried StaxRip last time, in recent weeks quite a lot improvements were made. You can find a relative stable preview version here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1353805#post1353805). It does good in the DVD/DVB area but lacks in the Blueray/AVCHD area. The growing format jungle makes it very difficult in particular if you have to merge things of different nature like DVD/DVB/Blueray and all other sources into a common interface to support everything in and everything out. It's a lot easier when you focus on a particular area like just DVD or AVCHD or Bluray or support only a limited or restricted feature set or when you design your application as loosely coupled toolbox without no real work flow. Authors are forced to focus on the basics and limit the feature set to what they use personal. Trying to do everything will result in everything being half baked.

I spent about a half hour looking at it again and here's the things I didn't care for or changes I would make:

- i have avisynth, xvid already installed but it's asking me to install avisynth and xvid whenever I choose an input
- on first launch it asks for settings dir, any reason to use anything but inside staxrip directory?
- no BD/DVD input, demuxing is a lot of the work for diy
- no simple audio/sub selection, this is also alot of work for diy
- no compression check with percentage
- calculate bitrate and display on main window
- overcomplex codec+container combinations (xvid/divx outside of avi/divx container? x264 in avi/divx container?
- picture statistics like DAR, SAR, PAR takes up alot of gui space and how many use or understand it, maybe have as a tech specs option
- have playlist, audio, subtitle panes replace filters and codec/container panes
- already accesible by double click, have crop as a button instead (everyone will know its clickable)
- avisynth filters, encoder settings button, container button
- move profile and speed/quality to main window, it's an important setting that could be overlooked in a menu
- queue

And on the plus side:
- one page gui
- multiple encoder/container support
- on demand install of large, uncommon or non-distributable tools (although external server system seems like a lot of work)
- resolution slider
- AR error
- encoder profiles
- multiple decoder support (dss, dgsource, etc.)
- avisynth filter/profiles although I'd have a button open a window with current script (editable) with filter categories, profile management on a side or bottom


@tubojet, I totally agree with stax76. The more you put into a GUI the worser everything works. Workflow and simplicity is the power of AVCHDCoder and it will get even better in the feature. When you add a second output format like DVD you need to build a lot of stuff to achieve that. It cost you more time to support and develop all this. And nobody want Half Baked stuff.

I agree workflow and simplicity are keys to every gui, however it can also be powerful and flexible. Doing one thing is good if that's all you need but you know it won't please everyone. It would please a lot more if it did what they wanted it to do, most of the time that's input/output.

[turok]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

Since june or july of this year for encoding so... 5-6 months?

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

Mewiki guide not for MeGUI but actually for x264 options (a little bit though). Read of MeGUI and Staxrip. Although as far as encoding concerns I actually was tutored in it by someone who has been encoding since vhs lol.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

I tried MeGUI at first but lost interest in it as it wasn't noob friendly. Then turned to Staxrip and only issues are the audio profiles but I heard that Stax76 added the ABR HE-AAC 80kbps profile some time ago?

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

MeGUI: Only for using its AVS Script creator, DG indexer, and Audio encoding (I actually learned how to encode vids with MeGUI but from an unlikely GUI.)

StaxRip: Since I first tried it which was about 5-6 months ago? My Premium choice for video encoding.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
DVD .vob, already encoded material, .ts and .m2ts sources. I usually output in the superior .mkv container. not once I ever did a mp4 or avi.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

Usually once a week ever since 5-6 months ago. sometimes none or three times a week.

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

I am a believer in the best quality possible. If it means two days (only one it occurred) then thats what I will have to wait for as quality is my only standard.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

MeGUI: Well never really liked it and only learned how to use it funnily right after I learned how to use StaxRip. When I was making my profile, editing on b frames and the like, I suddenly figured out how to use MeGUI. But MeGUI has errors and bugs from what I have been hearing around some areas of internet and irc so stayed away from it.

Overall from my own experience I'd say StaxRip the best GUI around for noobs and pros although I hear some pros have issues with StaxRip (lol.) I haven't thought about any other GUI because simply put: StaxRip is just that good

[stax76]

i have avisynth, xvid already installed but it's asking me to install avisynth and xvid whenever I choose an input

It should not ask for AviSynth when it's installed, it would ask continue with wrong version and not ask again.

For XviD it will only ask if the XviD encoder is used or if the yv12 decoder is not one of the following: ffdshow, xvid, helix, I think the yv12 decoder is only needed for drawing the preview and crop dialog so I might convert to rgb in case no proper yv12 decoder is present, that would remove the requirement but if ffdshow is installed anyway than I think it just registers ffdshow on setup. Maybe something didn't work right.

on first launch it asks for settings dir, any reason to use anything but inside staxrip directory?

It's called startup directory and it's generally not good practice to do this, it's should be fully supported though and I've always implemented feature requests in this area but it makes little sense as you have to take care of the settings every time you download a new version. Actually for a long time the startup dir was the first option in this dialog but realized there are problems so it had to go. You can still use the custom option to choose the startup dir, it should be still xcopy compatible and even pickup the settings on a fresh OS install IIRC, this was requested.

no BD/DVD input, demuxing is a lot of the work for diy

I'm just starting with BD/AVCHD, regarding DVD there is probably room for improvement.

no simple audio/sub selection, this is also alot of work

Putting subtitles in the main dialog would have the downside the main dialog gets overloaded. Furthermore it needs a larger interface to change language, name, order, add external files, etc, StaxRip will pickup files automatically. For many sources subtitles are not present or needed. HDConvertToX tab approach isn't bad at all. StaxRip had however always a flat interface since. It's not such a big difference if you open the dialog or switch tabs I think. Every aproach has pros and cons I guess, depends on the user and his sources.

Audio is fine I think, just a listbox/listview has probably more limitations and issues. It picks up the files depending on the active profiles, writes the language to the file name, you choose a profile if the template didn't had the right profiles, pretty easy everything.

no compression check with percentage

You didn't find the compression check? There is probably a whole lot more you didn't not find or understand!


overcomplex codec+container combinations (xvid/divx outside of avi/divx container? x264 in avi/divx container?

I don't see a problem here, normally you would start with a template that has everything in place. If you would load a different encoder with compatible muxer it keeps the muxer with all settings but if the current muxer is not compatible it would use the default muxer. If this would result in the audio being not compatible audio sticks, I considered to change it but had doubts, the assistant would just tell there is a problem and the user would pick either a different container profile or audio profile. It has advantages to show only compatible stuff but I have doubts that would be good doing in StaxRip, I never really thought about this.

calculate bitrate and display on main window

You missed fundamental things here like choosing a 2 pass encoder profile, you get size, bitrate, compressibility and quality percentage on the main dialog.

picture statistics like DAR, SAR, PAR takes up alot of gui space and how many use or understand it, maybe have as a tech specs option

Some users need this, I think StaxRip does good when it comes to image size, cropping, aspect ratios etc., you are right that many users don't understand things but this is true for every any other area as well.

have playlist, audio, subtitle panes replace filters and codec/container panes

I wrote a bit about audio and subtitles, what's wrong about filters? you can easily change filters with the context menu, fully customize available filters, even their menu structure, actually you can customize the menu structure pretty much everywhere, you can reorder filters with drag & drop, there are tons of such hidden features, mouse wheel features, modifier key features (alt/ctrl/shift features). Many users probably don't know/understand half of the features StaxRip.

have crop as a button instead

There is a link label to open the crop dialog, for the preview I use the F5 key. The problem is you have to decide for what you make buttons and stuff, you can't have everything otherwise the interface would become GK like overloaded. You can use the main menu btw for custom buttons, root items usually have no click handler but sub menus but that don't mean they need sub items or cannot have click handlers. Maybe I should use the menu style I designed for some of my other applications and add some buttons. Here are screenshots about of this menu style:

http://www.stax76.bplaced.net/index.php?slab=filetyperegistryviewer

http://www.stax76.bplaced.net/index.php?slab=staxbackup

move profile and speed/quality to main window

I thought about this, the encoder groupbox currently using a listbox could be used, the basic architecture to do this is there as it already shows a custom control depending on encoder.

avisynth filter/profiles although I'd have a button open a window with current script (editable) with filter categories, profile management on a side or bottom

StaxRip uses a abstraction layer breaking the scripts in parts to work with filter profiles using a ListView. Lot's of features depend on this architecture, try to check/uncheck crop or resize for instance and all calculations and everything will reflect this, today I made a big improvement in this area, it's now possible to make changes that affect image size frame rate, length etc. and StaxRip updates all controls and verifications for the source and target parameters (the source parameters are determined using the source filters item). It's not possible to move back and forth from code to abstraction. AVS files can be opened and I changed it now that all filters will be unchecked to use only the code of the opened avs file.

@turok

I tried MeGUI at first but lost interest in it as it wasn't noob friendly. Then turned to Staxrip and only issues are the audio profiles but I heard that Stax76 added the ABR HE-AAC 80kbps profile some time ago?

I've added some profiles lately but since there is a new GUI for audio making custom profiles is as very easy. Should be usable in preview 3.

[turbojet]

Subtitles are on almost every legitimate source whether people need them or not is up to them but consider all the foreign films, non-english speakers, hard of hearing people and it adds up. If you are concerned about gui overload the DAR, SAR, etc. that few people know is eating up about 1/3 of the gui. Context menu's can keep the audio/sub panes small. The way you have audio setup now means manual demux which would pretty much make BD/DVD input useless. Demuxing when the BD/DVD is inputted like RipBot264 is a huge waste of time and much better left to be done after a user has everything setup and hits encode. Outside of crop/resize you have to think about how many are using the additional filters, in my opinion it's not worth using 1/6 the gui when it could be a button instead.

The fact that I didn't see things like bitrate and compression checks speak for how complicated the gui is to use. I'm not picking just on staxrip, most gui's have out-of-place things. Gordian Knot I think is fairly simple, has things where most would look and is pretty functional. I'd have to disagree on it being overloaded but I only use 2 panes. It's workflow (need to demux first) could be much improved which it was with AutoGK but most of the functionality disappeared.

[Ryo94]

I vote for leave the filter as they are, I use a lot deinterlacing for dvds and noise reduction filter for analog captures (the addition of a deblock filter would be nice).
The info related to the video picture (DAR, PAR, SAR) are perfect to me, even tiny GUIs like Automen included them.
GK as GUI was horrendously overloaded, same goes for SUPER and Mediacoder.
Please Stax keep the GUI clean and friendly like its now.

Kind Regards.

[Blue_MiSfit]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

I've been messing with computers for nearly 20 years (since I was a little squirt), and video encoding for the past 10, give or take

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

I read a lot of tutorials back in the early 2000's when things were getting interesting, but after I acquired the basic knowledge, I tended to learn by reading discussion - mostly here!

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

Gordian Knot - Used this for a long time to rip DVDs ;) It was good for doing simple 1-2CD AVI backups of DVDs using Xvid or DivX. I moved on to manual encodes when AviSynth piqued my interest.

MeGUI - I also used this for a long time, as it's a nice tool that brings together lots of "modern" tools. I've currently gotten into doing lots of CLI, especially since x264's interface was recently simplified (HUGELY), so I almost never use it anymore. I hear there's a new version that works with newer x264 builds, but I haven't tried (and probably won't)

MeGUI's problems were mostly its speed. Opening it takes a LONG time, and the interface in general was rather slow. Most of it was well designed, but meh..

Lord Mulder's simple x264 GUI - Awesome. Simple. Fast. Automates x264_x64 + avs2yuv so I can use 32 bit avisynth. All I ever need these days!

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

Erm... this is the same question as #3 ;)

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Almost all my personal sources are BluRay, and a few are DVD. I always output to MKV, keeping the original audio track (or a high bitrate AAC transcode of a lossless / PCM source), and CRF encoding with x264. I always store on my array of 1.5 TB HDDs. I will occasionally do a more limited encode with DXVA compatibility if I'm going to a friend's house who has a DXVA capable video card, but no BluRay drive.

At work, all my sources are either extremely high bitrate MPEG-2 Program / Transport streams, or ProRes / MJPEG QuickTime digital mezzanine files. They're massive, and a pain to work with!! I output transport streams at various bitrates containing dolby digital plus audio and h.264 video *encoded via x264 ;)*

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
At home, anywhere from 1 to 10 a week

At work, 300-500 a week :)

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
Most of the time, I'll spend no more than 15 minutes prepping a script. In fact, most movies I barely touch at all, since BluRay is usually pretty good. My work sources sometimes require some special treatment, but again I rarely spend more than 15 minutes prepping an encode.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
Speed, compatibility / stability, and poor layout. I know how it all works under the hood, and I prefer to simply write my scripts and use CLI most of the time. Except Mulder's GUI. That thing rocks ;)


[/QUOTE]

[Ramir Gonzales]

6.) how many encodes do make in a given time frame?
At home, anywhere from 1 to 10 a week

at work, 300-500 a week :)


pirate alert !!

All personnel go immediate to deck, there is a pirate above us !!!

[lnatan25]

pirate alert !!

All personnel go immediate to deck, there is a pirate above us !!!
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn319/LeoNatan/coolpirate.png

[buzzqw]

i have signaled both post to moderators

BHH

[sharza]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Computing - lots, lots and even more - video encoding - not much, newbie and hate it.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
I lost track....

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
RipBot and meGUI... tried them somewhat through, I can hardly tell if they failed, probably not them who failed - rather the user (me).

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
Auto Guardian knot for dvd's and avi's... mostly stayed out of reencoding too much myself as time's an issue.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Today my sources are bluray or hdtv - rarily dvd's as I would avoid them if at all possible.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
Varies alot...

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
None...

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
N/A

[Emulgator]

1: Computing (well, bits of signal analysis on TMS 32010 (TI), industrial A/D conversion in audio and ultrasonic range on MP 2735-2 (Analogic),
CP/M, MS-DOS 3.1 since 1986, WinMe98 1st since 1998 (uh, hate, WTF?),
WinXP since 2001 (ah, finally it works for me, not only for others, video becomes possible),
Software-based Video encoding (MPEG-2) since 2002, MPEG-4 since 2007.
2: Some, and repeatedly.
3: CCE, Mainconcept, HC, TE2.5, TE4XP, WavtoAC3, VirtualDub, MeGUI, RipBot264, multiAVCHD.
4: Almost all of them, TE2.5 and MC decaying.
5: Own camera takes, noisy and grainy stuff to be restored, whatever people bring. No rips. Output: DVD/BD.
6: Almost daily.
7: Depending on complexity. Sometimes more than 8 test encodes to find the perfect setting, sometimes straighter.
8: The GUI is not my main concern, the encoding quality is.

But to give kind of an insight to a wish list:
GUI, show me what you can do. At once. No fancy buttons. Resizable, scrollable, minimizable.
Not too many hidden things (rightclicks depending on position), not too many tabs or separate windows.

A: Top pane: Source path / output path. (Remember these. Override input/output path this time.)
B: My suggestion would be that that the total parameter structure of the chosen encoder is shown
in a left pane as in any explorer folder tree.
C: Have this controlled by a middle pane with profile selections.
Selections like "DVD-multiangle" "Blu-ray standalone L4.1" would grey out the now impossible parameter options on the left pane,
forcing them back if you prefer to reactivate these by clicking on these anyway,
but should give override warning and greying out the selection in the middle again,
still allowing to bring them back as you click on these.
D: Finally the right (and more right) pane(s) should allowing tuning of bitrates, GOP sizes, matrices,
always with feedback to their left panes (warn if setting overrides, grey out if override confirmed, come back if clicked on)
if your setting would excceeed the compliancy you just specified a pane before.
E: Realtime preview zoomable 4:1/2:1/1:1/1:2/1:4 with thinning, frames / fields / fields double height,
frametypes I/P/B, bits/bitrate spent, maybe in an extra window, minimizeable
F: Settings human-readable in .ini or .xml pane outmost right ? etc.
G: Now the bottom pane:
H: Show the called encoder version on top of the commandline.
I: I'd like to see the commandline at the bottom, updated in realtime while editing.
J: I'd like to have direct access to the commandline while editing.
K: Now the buttons rows below the commandline:
#Start #Pause #Stop now with a useable file unto this point # Stop after this pass with an useable file #Abort.
L:After encode:
#Do nothing. #Power down. #Stand-by. #Hibernate. #Start Program...
M: Show the progress bar (frame position) with elapsed, estimated remaining, estimated total encoding time.
N: Show the (number of) passes progress bar with the Encoding.../Finished! sign to the right.
O: (error/success sound.)
P: Log window.

[7ekno]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Fair bit, years of PC/Server fixes / installs / recoveries, etc

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
1 or 2, I rely on the UI being easy enough to work out ...

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
MeGUI - almost daily for everything (from DVD/BD backup to home movie MOV/MTS files), when that broke I went in search of a new GUI, but nothing I found could select 20 AVS files at a time to import (couldn't work it out in StaxRip, Ripbot264 doesn't do it, ConvertHDtoX would crash), so I settled on doing it via CMD file and commandlines (for %I in (blah blah))

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
MeGUI almost forever until it broke, then HDConvertToX never ran, Ripbot264 for the times I couldn't do encodes in BAT, StaxRip as a backup

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Output: H.264 + AC3/AAC LE inside MKV
Input varies: DGIndex (or now DGTools) DVD or Bluray (so MPEG2 + AC3 or H.264 + AC3/DTS), MTS AVCHDlite files from Digicam (H.264 1280x720@25p at ~ 17mbps + 2 channel AC3), MOV files from Digicam (MJPEG + single channel PCM), AVS scripts (video only, would love a GUI to batch select AVS files and match them to AC3 files!!) to cleanup BD/DVD & Digicam stuff

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?Have a single PC (AMD x4) encoding almost 24/7 (well, when it stops it usually takes a while to generate AVS scripts for the next lots of encodes)

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
Shorter the better!! A GUI that acts like AvSP (but has a few template selections user generated) and can auto enque to encode would fricken rock!!! (the fall down of all the GUIs I have tried is that I take the time to generate the custom AVSs, which is fine, but then having to import them one by one into a GUI can take HOURS - being able to select all the AVSs at one time and letting the GUI enque them would ROCK!!!!)

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
Gave up because after taking time to customise the AVS files it would take HOURS to import them one by one into a que (whereas with a BAT/CMD file I could just double click it after finishing the AVS scripts and it would work thru them all for me ... kinda funny an old school BAT/CMD file can do what GUIs couldn't - or the ones I tried couldn't !!!!! )

7ek

[smok3]

Gave up because after taking time to customise the AVS files it would take HOURS to import them one by one into a que (whereas with a BAT/CMD file I could just double click it after finishing the AVS scripts and it would work thru them all for me ... kinda funny an old school BAT/CMD file can do what GUIs couldn't - or the ones I tried couldn't !!!!! )
:goodpost:

[stax76]

StaxRip does batch processing better then any other application I know so where is the problem?

[stax76]

@turbojet

I've worked on the toolbar and codec issue you raised, I'm not sure yet if I should also add subtitle selection to the main dialog, so far you were the only one suggesting it.

http://www.filedropper.com/staxrip1141

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5229/77354791.png (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/77354791.png/) http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/77354791.png/1/w822.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img684/77354791.png/1/)

[/mp]

Getting back to the origin of this thread:


I've a couple of questions to GUI users, non GUI users are welcome to post as well of course. I hope the thread will be useful to explore different natures of GUIs and users.

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
computer formal education ~'78-'84; computers as playthings '78-present. Audio & video editing/encoding professionally '97-present, mpeg4 pt10 professionally '08-present.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
many, many


3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
real/helix encoder 8, 9; cleaner 5, XL, live 2; WME (9?), Sorenson Squeeze 3, 4, 5; Procoder 2, 3; Rhozet Carbon Coder (demo license); Digital Rapids Stram Pro 2; Apple Compressor 2, 3; Telestream Episode Pro 5; Pinnacle Stream Factory. Apple FCP, Avid XP/MC. Cinestream. Flash encoder CS3/4. Tmpgenc. VLC media player (kinda splits the difference between command line & GUI).
I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
If the product works/ed well I use/d it until obsolescence. Different tools in the toolbox for different jobs.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
see (3)

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
souce: SD DV via IEEE1394 (almost exclusively), DVD, web, etc (rarely)
output: (as per server/client requirement/vintage) real, wmv, qt, .flash, mp4, DV (back to tape)

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
several per week usually

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
I like to hand tweak each file for best result; supervisor likes me to just churn them out. let's split the difference and write not much

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
I haven't. Currently I mostly use the main concept mpeg4 CODEC in sorenson squeeze. Don't recall which for flash. Stream Pro for streaming real live.

No one else replying to this thread wrote they use commercial software, IIRC.

N.B.
i) I prefer GUIs which show previews.
ii) I haven't been a programmer in 25 years. Don't expect me to write code.
iii) ~13 years prof encoding experience & I know enough about H.264 to glimpse the profundity of my ignorance.
iv) would like to find an x264 GUI that's bug free/mission critical stable, easy to use but all (most anyway) features selectable, reads QT Ref as source, & uses all cores for each file. Kindly reply if you know such an animal exists.

Delurking,
/mp

[smok3]

reads QT Ref as source
+1 (i just realized handbrake is not working like that today...)
edit: or it has problems with prores

[stax76]

I don't know what 'QT Ref' is, I have one sample clip MediaInfo identifies as QuickTime
and how StaxRip handles it by default can be seen below. Because there is a huge
format jungle it's hardly possible to handle every format perfectly, because of this
there are various options in StaxRip to change the handling, in case the default handling
is not doing good. Suggestions regarding the default handling and sample files are welcomed.



------------------------------------------------------------
Environment
------------------------------------------------------------

StaxRip version: 1.1.4.7
OS Name : Windows 7 Ultimate
OS Version : 6.1.7100.0
OS Type : 32-bit
OS Culture : German (Germany)

------------------------------------------------------------
.NET
------------------------------------------------------------

v2.0.50727 : 2.0.50727.4918
v3.0 : 3.0.30729.4918
v3.5 : 3.5.30729.4918
v4\Client : 4.0.21006
v4\Full : 4.0.21006

------------------------------------------------------------
AviSynth Plugins
------------------------------------------------------------

DirectShowSource, TCPDeliver

------------------------------------------------------------
Source file info
------------------------------------------------------------

D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov

General
Complete name : D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 128 MiB
Duration : 2mn 23s
Overall bit rate : 7 482 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:47
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 2mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 6 519 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 544 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.390
Stream size : 111 MiB (87%)
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:40
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 2mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Rear: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 10.9 MiB (9%)
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:40
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51

Menu
ID : 3
Encoded_Date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:40
Tagged_Date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51


------------------------------------------------------------
Demux AVC to MKV using ffmpeg
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\ffmpeg\ffmpeg.exe" -i "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov"
-y -vcodec copy -an "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv"

FFmpeg version SVN-r20878, Copyright (c) 2000-2009 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
built on Dec 16 2009 06:01:45 with gcc 4.2.4
configuration: --enable-memalign-hack --prefix=/mingw --cross-prefix=i686-mingw32- --cc=ccache-i686-mingw32-gcc
--target-os=mingw32 --arch=i686 --cpu=i686 --enable-avisynth --enable-gpl
--enable-version3 --enable-zlib --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libfaad --enable-pthreads --enable-libvorbis
--enable-libtheora --enable-libspeex --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libxvid --enable-libschroedinger
--enable-libx264 --enable-libopencore_amrwb --enable-libopencore_amrnb
libavutil 50. 7. 0 / 50. 7. 0
libavcodec 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavformat 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavdevice 52. 2. 0 / 52. 2. 0
libswscale 0. 7. 2 / 0. 7. 2
[mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2 @ 0x37ce50]max_analyze_duration reached
Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 4800.00 (4800/1) -> 24.00 (24/1)
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov':
Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
Duration: 00:02:23.16, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 7482 kb/s
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1280x544, 6519 kb/s, 24 tbr, 2400 tbn, 4800 tbc
Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 639 kb/s
Stream #0.2(eng): Data: tmcd / 0x64636D74
Stream #0.3(eng): Data: rtp / 0x20707472, 316 kb/s
Output #0, matroska, to 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv':
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: libx264, yuv420p, 1280x544, q=2-31, 6519 kb/s, 1k tbn, 2400 tbc
Stream mapping:
Stream #0.0 -> #0.0
Press [q] to stop encoding
video:113936kB audio:0kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.025823%

Start: 21:28:43
End: 21:28:51
Duration: 00:00:07

------------------------------------------------------------
mkvinfo for mkv file about to demux
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\MKVtoolnix\mkvinfo.exe" --ui-language
en "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv"

+ EBML head
|+ EBML version: 1
|+ EBML read version: 1
|+ EBML maximum ID length: 4
|+ (Unbekanntes Element: EBMLMaxSizeLength; ID: 0x42f3 Größe: 4)
|+ Doc type: matroska
|+ Doc type version: 2
|+ Doc type read version: 2
+ Segment, size 116700925
|+ Seek head (subentries will be skipped)
|+ EbmlVoid (Größe: 145)
|+ Segment information
| + Timecode scale: 1000000
| + Muxing application: Lavf52.43.0
| + Writing application: Lavf52.43.0
| + Segment UID: 0x68 0x64 0x3d 0x38 0x08 0xa3 0xb2 0xff 0xeb 0x0e 0x38 0x7e 0xac 0x93 0xe7 0x8d
| + Duration: 143.125s (00:02:23.125)
|+ Segment tracks
| + A track
| + Track number: 1
| + Track UID: 1
| + Lacing flag: 0
| + Language: eng
| + Codec ID: V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
| + Track type: video
| + Video track
| + Pixel width: 1280
| + Pixel height: 544
| + CodecPrivate, length 35
|+ Cluster

------------------------------------------------------------
Demux MKV using mkvextract
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\MKVtoolnix\mkvextract.exe" tracks "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv"
1:"D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.h264" --ui-language en

Extracting track 1 with the CodecID 'V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC' to the file 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.h264'. Container format: AVC/h.264 elementary stream

Start: 21:28:51
End: 21:28:56
Duration: 00:00:04

------------------------------------------------------------
Demux AAC using ffmpeg
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\ffmpeg\ffmpeg.exe" -i "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov" -y -acodec copy
-vn "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.m4a"

FFmpeg version SVN-r20878, Copyright (c) 2000-2009 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
built on Dec 16 2009 06:01:45 with gcc 4.2.4
configuration: --enable-memalign-hack --prefix=/mingw --cross-prefix=i686-mingw32- --cc=ccache-i686-mingw32-gcc --target-os=mingw32 --arch=i686 --cpu=i686 --enable-avisynth
--enable-gpl --enable-version3 --enable-zlib --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libfaad --enable-pthreads --enable-libvorbis --enable-libtheora --enable-libspeex
--enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libxvid --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libx264 --enable-libopencore_amrwb --enable-libopencore_amrnb
libavutil 50. 7. 0 / 50. 7. 0
libavcodec 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavformat 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavdevice 52. 2. 0 / 52. 2. 0
libswscale 0. 7. 2 / 0. 7. 2
[mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2 @ 0x162ce50]max_analyze_duration reached
Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 4800.00 (4800/1) -> 24.00 (24/1)
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov':
Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
Duration: 00:02:23.16, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 7482 kb/s
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1280x544, 6519 kb/s, 24 tbr, 2400 tbn, 4800 tbc
Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 639 kb/s
Stream #0.2(eng): Data: tmcd / 0x64636D74
Stream #0.3(eng): Data: rtp / 0x20707472, 316 kb/s
Output #0, ipod, to 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.m4a':
Stream #0.0(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 5.1, 639 kb/s
Stream mapping:
Stream #0.1 -> #0.0
Press [q] to stop encoding
size= 3873kB time=49.58 bitrate= 640.0kbits/s
size= 10431kB time=133.53 bitrate= 640.0kbits/s
size= 11238kB time=143.17 bitrate= 643.0kbits/s
video:0kB audio:11185kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.474731%

Start: 21:28:56
End: 21:28:58
Duration: 00:00:02

------------------------------------------------------------
DGAVCIndex - Demux and index AVC
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\DGAVCIndex\DGAVCIndex.exe" -i "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.h264"
-o "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\\10000 BC.dga" -a -e

Demuxer: DGAVCIndex - Demux and index AVC
Start: 21:28:59
End: 21:29:10
Duration: 00:00:11

------------------------------------------------------------
Source Macros
------------------------------------------------------------

Source Directory: D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\
Source Directory Name: 10000 BC temp files
Source Directory Parent: D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\
Source File Path: D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.dga
Source Files Blank: "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.dga"
Source Files Comma: "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.dga"
Source Framerate: 25.00
Source Frames: 3436
Source Image Height: 544
Source File Name: 10000 BC
Source Seconds: 137
Source Image Width: 1280

[/mp]

Some video editing applications (e.g. Avid, Final Cut) can export a quicktime reference file for use by an encoding application. The audio track(s) are exported as normal but the video track(s) are just pointers to the media. This speeds up the export a lot. The encoding software (e.g. tmpmgenc, squeeze, episode) reads the reference file as if it were an actual .mov file.

The other advantage of QT refs are only 1 encode cycle. If the editing application exports a "real" quicktime but it's not the desired terminal format, the encoding application must re-encode (transcode) from .mov to [desired format]

I found this on the web if it's any clearer:
A Quicktime Reference file is a small file (typically about 1 to 2 kilobytes) that can refer to non-Quicktime media files and make those media files appear as Quicktime files to applications that are able to read Quicktime files. So, for instance, Quicktime reference files can be created on a Windows or Macintosh OS computer such that Avid's "mxf or "omf" files appear to be valid "Quicktime Files".

Generally, Quicktime Reference Files are files having links to that audio and video media files that are NOT in the Quicktime format and that make those files appear to be in the Quicktime Format so that they can be played by any Quicktime-compliant applications.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/ja/wo.jsp?WO=2009129252&IA=US2009040546&DISPLAY=DESC

Hope this helps,
/mp

[smok3]

i think quicktime itself can make those ref files itself also? (in any case, one needs to unselect 'make movie self-contained').

screenshot, what apple-info and mediainfo have to say about such file;
http://imagebin.org/84157