Questions to GUI users on available GUIs

[stax76]

I've a couple of questions to GUI users, non GUI users are welcome to post as well of course. I hope the thread will be useful to explore different natures of GUIs and users.

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

[stax76]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

StaxRip started 2001 as VBScript, became VB6, became .NET 1.0 and soon will be .NET 4.0 so I've gained much experience coding StaxRip.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

I've probably not read as much as I've should, in german there is Brother John's encodingwissen I read and recommend, it's huge.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

I didn't seriously try GordianKnot as is didn't seem to be suitable for converting larger amounts of DVB captures. I follow the MeGUI and RipBot264 development and use them sometimes. I understand their design and concept and pros and cons of them.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

StaxRip most of the time

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

A lot PAL DVB captures in the past but now I don't convert much TV captures, I don't even watch much TV other than TV series which I'm much of an addict. I just convert PAL DVDs, not too many in recent years. I use x264 using simple settings, AAC, MKV, everything DivX Plus compatible, small files stored on the HD (if you are a newbie and want to store on HD, DON'T USE 2PASS!). I don't include subtitles so I can focus on the acting, luckily in germany there is very good synchronization, some stars have very cool synchron voices. If I could understand everything perfectly I would watch english more often. Right now I probably get only 90-95% of everything spoken, english is simply not my native language. I consider though to include the English track as HEv2/SBR+PS so it don't take much space, English subtitles would then also make sense.

No HD plans so far but in February free HDTV starts in germany, so far it was only Pay TV.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

Sometimes few in a row, sometimes non for weeks, it varies but generally not too many. There are so many movies and stars but few good enough to watch a second time.

7.) How much time do you like or spend preparing an encode?

I did not measure but I spend hardly time on tweaking, I've poor eyes anyway, sometimes I use a noise filter. I just want the encoding to be setup quick and painfree.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

I avoid command shells and applications that involve manual work and complexity and prefer simple and fancy GUIs.

[Betsy25]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Cumputing, pretty much .... Video encoding, I keep feeling a newbie.
2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
I've read some (parts) about MeGUI, and did my best the read a German manual about StaxRip from some pope looking forum member.:D
3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
MeGUI, AviDemux, HDConvertToX, RipBot264 all failed on me to either do not do what they promised (user bugs, program bugs ??), or in MeGUI's case crashed more on me than it produced encodings, Only tool I keep my hope in is StaxRip, because it's clear for beginners, has all the options for the no-beginner, and especially is programmed in a proper way, read : Added features are (mostly) properly added from the very beginning, and it doesn't get filled with buckets of half- or non-working "features" which make the author(s) give up once they completely lost the red wire of their GUI.
4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
MeGUI and AviDemux for some months, StaxRip for a long time, in the avi-only ages, avi.NET was my favourite.
5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Sources are almost all DVD, have no BluRay on my PC, output format is mostly .avi or .mp4 (because these formats are almost properly handled by the PS3)
6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
When I'm a buying period, I can by 10 DVD's at once, now it's almost a year ago, since I did a "fresh" encode, I do keep encoding the same movies over and over again, testing x264, the GUI's and because it may have become an addiction ?:scared:
7.) How much time do like or spend preparing an encode?
Doesn't matter, as long as the result is (very) good, time doesn't matter, perhaps because I'm not a pirate having to be the first to spread some encoded stuff, so for me, time is not that important.
8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
Some because of their bugs, and "dumb" layout, because there is no single logic where to start, and where to go from there.
I keep preferring StaxRip because you clearly take your time to properly implement something, with other apps there is such a load of bugs (mostly due writing errors in the code, and once those begin to build up, you see their pattern of creating even more bugs when older bugs are actually being addressed. That gives me a sense that I'm trying something that is broken in so many places that I'm really not more interested in an encoder GUI that is always failing somewhere, and you get the feeling that you have more chance at winning the lottery than producing a successful encoding with it), That's the feeling I don't have with StaxRip, it has always been super-clean regarding bugs, and that, for me, is the proper way to have a long standing GUI that builds on great user experiences, and not building name with its bug threads being the biggest of the pack.

[RiCON]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Been working with computers for almost 10 years and have always been very curious about the workings inside them, both in hardware and software. Only started video encoding more or less when Matroska showed up, then stopped for a few years until 1 year ago or so, when I started fansubbing.
2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
A few. A few man pages on the relevant apps, reviews on filters and their readmes, etc. Tutorials on GUI, not so much. A GUI shouldn't need a tutorial to be used.
3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
Tried MeGUI because liked the range of features. Also, StaxRip, RipBot, MicroX264 and sx264. In ye olden times, also used GKnot.
4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
The GUI I used the longest so far was MeGUI, for half a year.
5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Mostly DVD and BD rips. Always MKV with H.264 video, AAC-LC audio and ASS subs.
6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
Been kinda lazying out from fansubbing so the only encodes I've been doing are for testing and to downscale videos so I can watch them on my Atom netbook.
7.) How much time do like or spend preparing an encode?
For a fansub, I can spend a whole day or even a few days looking for the best compromise between quality and size. To downscale for the netbook, I'd like to just order a simple resize to 512x288 with --tune fastdecode and in a way I don't spend much time setting up the encodes for a potentially large list of files.
8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
I've given up MeGUI because I frequently encountered bugs in some features. I started using more of the apps themselves instead of MeGUI, like DGIndex and TsMuxer/eac3to.
Ripbot doesn't have resizing, so I would have to make my own .avs every time I'd like to downscale a video.
I don't like using StaxRip very much. A few superfluous options and everything assumed "for newbies". Haven't messed with it a lot, though.
sx264 simply doesn't work, sometimes, dunno why.
MicroX264 is the perfect GUI for the downscaling part. All I have to do is replace the resolution part with "--stdin y4m", delete "-raw" from avs2yuv and just paste the changes to the app or just paste everything in a .bat and run. Because no windows show up and the settings are kept, I can queue a lot of encodes effortlessly. With the updated not so much.
For the fansubbing encodes, I just use my own scripts, because they're more customizable and fail-safe than almost any GUI. I usually need access to x264's presets, tunes, levels, occasional change of options and qpfile importing.

[harycover]

This may be a simple answer but the first thing I expect from a gui is to work, fancy options are worthless if they introduce some bugs

I'm using ripbot264 because it's really simple, user friendly, quite reliable (almost 100%) and very fast, I tried hdconvertoX, there are some nice features like subtitles support, much more options for audio and video encoding but it's quite buggy (my apologies to it's author) but after 20 or so encodings with it only half of them got till the end of the process for various reasons

I once used to encode using command line when divx was at version 3.12 but I want now efficiency and no more hassle because I don't have time to waste struggling to check why it didn't work

So... if you are working on your GUI (wich I didn't try yet) your first aim should be reliability... if the job is in the queue then it's supposed to be done or the gui shouldn't accept to put it there, it has to check that everything is ok before saying that the job is accepted, if you generously add an option make sure it is compatible with all the process before (that's a lot of work I know)

Cheers :)

[prOnorama]

1.) 10 years (Windows only) , 4 years or so video encoding;

2.) a few, an AutoGK guide, a few guides on Xvid & Gknot, and a few guides on MeGui & x264;

3.) AutoGK (used it a few months before switching to GK), then GordianKnot (used it a lot but not anymore because I don't use Xvid anymore and because GK development has been dead for years), MeGUI (still use it but the actual encoding I do via the command line now), tried RipBot264 (good as 1 click encoder), StaxRip (didn't try it a lot, didn't like the interface and also if I just load an .avs it started to override it with it's own settings), ASXGUI/HDConverttoX (tried once didn't like the interface and/or didn't let met use my own settings);

4.) MeGUI the last few years;

5.) mostly HD sources nowadays, output format .mkv using x264 and usually DTS core audio or AC3 (core). PS: Xvid should die it's vastly inferior to x264. I have the feeling standalone device support for x264 (or MPEG-4 AVC) might get mainstream acceptance sooner if it weren't for pesky old Xvid codec.

6.) 5-8 a month or so;

7.) a little as possible (Edit: well that doesn't mean I don't take the time to properly test the encode, I always do a 5% test encode (or a few) and adjust the bitrate and/or settings according to the source). What I don't do is encode the same source again, when it's done it's done and it goes to one of my external HD's)

8.) see 3.)

In short: favorite easy to use 1 click GUI -> Ripbot264, favorite overall GUI: MeGUI (with the remark that the development has been rocky lately, but it might get bug free again)

[stax76]

@ prOnorama & harycover

Am I right to assume your sources are mostly Blue-ray?

[stax76]

didn't try it a lot, didn't like the interface and also if I just load an .avs it started to override it with it's own settings

There were a couple of improvements made in this regard, for instance a new menu to define the source aspect ratio which is in particular useful opening AVS files since it cannot be detected and users are likely to want full control over this so this is now a 100% supported scenario, it hasn't always been that way.

MeGUI supports it too but I don't know exactly how it manages aspect ratio. RipBot264 can open AVS too but again I don't know how it manages aspect ratio and audio for AVS sources.

[harycover]

@ stax76

Yes, you're right, mostly blu ray and HD content, I also downsize some hdvideo so I can send it through internet, like prOnorama I encode in x264 for both hd and sd videos, ogg audio for optimal size or direct stream copy when size doesn't matter much

As far as I am concerned a GUI like ripbot264 that would add more audio encoding options and some subtitles support would be just perfect, for the moment I'm doing this part "manually" using mkvmerge, bdsup2sub, etc...

[prOnorama]

There were a couple of improvements made in this regard, for instance a new menu to define the source aspect ratio which is in particular useful opening AVS files since it cannot be detected and users are likely to want full control over this so this is now a 100% supported scenario, it hasn't always been that way.

MeGUI supports it too but I don't know exactly how it manages aspect ratio. RipBot264 can open AVS too but again I don't know how it manages aspect ratio and audio for AVS sources.

Ah OK been a while since I tried it maybe I should give it another chance, but to be honest I mostly do everything by hand now: eac3to to demux audio (or DGIndex for DVD) subtitles, chapters; GraphStudio -> AvSP -> .avs -> x264 via command line; mux everything with mkvmerge GUI. It's just I have to change the script a little for each encode, but since I don't do that many it's still OK. At least you can use the latest version of x264 (change all the options yourself if necessary) and aren't dependent on a GUI which might be outdated.

Having said that: a simple GUI with some de-interlacing/IVTC filter presets could still be helpful, I always have to check back on some AviSynth related guide for those options (don't use them that much).

And yes mostly Blu-ray sources, some HDTV.

[stax76]

At least you can use the latest version of x264 (change all the options yourself if necessary) and aren't dependent on a GUI which might be outdated.

I don't know how much of a problem this was in other GUIs. In StaxRip it was never a issue, a incompatible setting enabled in a profile can just be set to the default value so no command is generated, this combined with custom commands should enable to use the application without updates for months. Profiles are built based on presets and tunings keeping the used commands at minimum except for profiles that target devices where it can't be avoided. I've paused StaxRip several times, 8 months one time and another pause can happen anytime. Did not cause issues, people continued to use it and were able to update used applications. The authors of applications used by GUIs are aware a lot of applications depend on their application and try to avoid unnecessary breaking changes.

[sumawo13]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

7 years using computers, encoding has only become a real interest of mine within the last year or two, but I've used encoding tools before.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

An untold number.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

The first GUI I used was VirtualDub for compressing some Fraps videos several years back. I've also used multipurpose encoding tools like Xvid4PSP, MediaCoder, WinFF, et cetera. Aside from VirtualDub, most of them were overly confusing in their layout and exposed encoder options that, at the time, a novice like myself didn't understand.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

I've used VirtualDub since either 2004 or 2005.

I've used MeGUI since 2008, after I began exploring other formats such as H.264, AAC, MKV, et cetera, although I've recently stopped using it as it is no longer maintained.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

My sources are generally NTSC Region 1 DVDs containing telecined film content.

I usually encode to H.264 for the video using x264, AAC for the audio using NeroAAC, and I mux to MKV. I don't usually include subtitles as most of my content is in English.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

It's hard to say. I do a lot of test encoding, playing with settings of the encoder and any Avisynth filters I might use. I also don't keep most of my encodes for very long, so I'm always re-encoding. I don't know an exact number, but I make multiple encodes per day.

7.) How much time do like or spend preparing an encode?

Not much time, but most of it is spent on writing the Avisynth script and batch file I use to encode.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

I think most GUIs try to do too many things. They not only want to be an encoder, but they also want to do everything else. I don't need an encoder to write my Avisynth scripts for me.

[buzzqw]

i can say only this: users start using a gui, and appreciated it for what gui offers.

at the same time users gain experience (on encoding) they start asking more and more and not correlated to gui features

a gui must "do" what is supposed to do, must not trasform is a ugly overwhelmed all around tab (like automkv).

Developers must say NO to features request beyond the scope of the gui.

BHH

[smok3]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
more than i ever wanted
2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
plenty
3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them?
i tried plenty, but i keep getting back to cli/scripting
Where did they fail?
- automagic settings and different detections that usually fail
- workflow assumptions that just wont work, wizard like linear 20 question systems
- unreliable batch processing, lack of repeatability
- lack of logical preset system for resizing, croping, ect
- unwanted encoding parameters abstraction layers (especially those that call command line progies like x264, for example quality scale in % was seen in one of this)
- they only run on windows
- lack of watch folder
- stability, unwanted complexity
- lack of drag/drop to my preset (or lack of droplets)
- lack of connection to xy editing software (encode from timeline) p.s. why can't there be a standard for gui to gui piping?
- huge log or no log at all / per file, no human readable info about encoding time / per file
- lately: lack of prores input support
- lately: hard to install on ubuntu (handbrake) /me linux noob
4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
virtualdub is absolute winer, lately comercial ones, like compressor on mac
5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
various sources, output is something crossplatform, something that can be easily used on the web
6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
certainly at least one per day
7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
as little as i can, but i wont relly on some automagic stufff
8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
i think gui and cli should merry and have lil guicli kids (and no, that doesnt mean i would love to edit some xml files).

[xdaft]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

Computing in general (non-coding) about 10 years or a little bit more. Video encoding - about 4 months.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

Well not enough. 5-6 I guess.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

ASXGui, StaxRip, RipBot, Meninx, MiniCoder, Mediacoder, XMedia Recode, a little bit GK (but I suck at using it), HDConvertoX, AutoMen, MeGui, FFcoder, Handbrake, MiniCoder, sx264 (and Hybrid). They did not fail, I just suck at using them I guess o.0 Most comprehensible to me are RipBot/ Meninx, FFCoder and Handbrake.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

As I said 4 months at encoding BUT I prefer MeninX and FFcoder(most comprehensible).

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

720p (any source), DVD and HDTV (downloaded from any internet source).

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

2 per day I guess . Mainly because I want to learn how to use the programs and try to understand what and when to use :)

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

Well not much, since I am still a newbie.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

Too little explanations in the app (do I have to use the forum for everyting o.0 a little bit tooltip won't hurt o.0 ) and failed encodes (multiple).

[Atak_Snajpera]

@harycover
As far as I am concerned a GUI like ripbot264 that would add more audio encoding options and some subtitles support would be just perfect, for the moment I'm doing this part "manually" using mkvmerge, bdsup2sub, etc...
All subtitles are automatically demuxed. Even forced blu-ray subtitles are demuxed. You can burn subtitles , you can mux subtitles . Ripbot automatically converts subtitles if they are not supported in specific container (.ass in mp4 or .sup in .mkv) so what's missing?

Ripbot doesn't have resizing, so I would have to make my own .avs every time I'd like to downscale a video.
and who told you that?
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/17/new1d.png

[ricardo.santos]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Im fairly proficiente with hardware and software...always learning when it comes to video encoding

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
Lots

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
All of them were thoroughly tried...GK, ATGK, avi.Net, megui, ripbot, staxrip, automen, autoff, automkv, winff, Avanti, Asxgui, avidemux, autoffmpeg2theora, Gvc, Gui4ffmpeg, Kiss DejaVu Enc, meninx, lamexp, yamb,xvid4psp, etc etc

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
nowadays only use avi.Net, AsxGui, lamexp, avidemux and Avanti

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Dvds, DV, Avi to flv/mp4/h264 (web streaming)

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

2 perhaps 3 a week

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
The gui does it for me

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
havent stoped using guis

[Betsy25]

The main reason people try and forget about StaxRip is in most cases the way it presents itself, most (lousy) triers will start it up and immediatelly yell "Is That All ?" .... they don't know the power of the right mouse button, That's the strength (and perhaps also weakness) of StaxRip, it presents itself quite naked, but once you start checking things out, configuration options, right mouse clicks, you WILL find out it offers so much more.

[nakTT]

The main reason people try and forget about StaxRip is in most cases the way it presents itself, most (lousy) triers will start it up and immediatelly yell "Is That All ?" .... they don't know the power of the right mouse button, That's the strength (and perhaps also weakness) of StaxRip, it presents itself quite naked, but once you start checking things out, configuration options, right mouse clicks, you WILL find out it offers so much more.
If that is the case, I will give StaxRip another try.

Last time I was turned off just exactly the way you said, since I'm one of those lousy triers.


:thanks:

[ricardo.santos]

StaxRip was great in the early times, but stayed dorment during a long time, the issue for me was not the options but the way it downloads stuff to our pc, i would download some tool and it would keep saying it wasnt there, that happened during the time that staxrip went "underground" so i turned to something else, i tried it recently but some errors popped up. Ill try it again as soon as i can

[nakTT]

StaxRip was great in the early times, but stayed dorment during a long time, the issue for me was not the options but the way it downloads stuff to our pc, i would download some tool and it would keep saying it wasnt there, that happened during the time that staxrip went "underground" so i turned to something else, i tried it recently but some errors popped up. Ill try it again as soon as i can
Yes, that was also one of the main reason I choose MeGUI over Staxrip (even though MeGUI is really difficult to use at first). Thanks ricardo, for pointing it out.

[ricardo.santos]

One of the main problems for me is the lack of subtitles options in these guis, like defining a vertical position, or what color, size...most of the times i use an avisynth script:

imagine my desktop with an avs script and a folder with an avi file called teste and an srt sub called teste
DirectShowSource("Desktop\folder\teste.avi")
Lanczos4Resize(640,360)

i activate the subtitles options in ffdshow and load the avs into MPC and then i can preview the subs in it and can alter their properties in ffdshow, after that i feed the avs to asxgui or another one.

Its complicated and most gui authors are not aware that users might need this specially foreign users...

Avanti is the only gui that im aware that does subtitle customization.

[harycover]

@harycover

All subtitles are automatically demuxed. Even forced blu-ray subtitles are demuxed. You can burn subtitles , you can mux subtitles . Ripbot automatically converts subtitles if they are not supported in specific container (.ass in mp4 or .sup in .mkv) so what's missing?



@ Atak_Snajpera

1 : thank you very very much for this tool

2 : What's missing :

-Multiple audio tracks, I know that ripbot demux everything before but when I want multiple audio I have to repeat manually the audio part of the process then mux manually, also a little bit more audio options, I prefer to use q6 ogg quality than q4 for example, I can't select this with ripbot

-Multiple subs selection, SRT support (I didn't check this one), remuxing subtitles, I don't like burning subtitles, subtitles must stay "disablable" when watching a video

That's all :) with this it would be the perfect tool because there would be no "manual" part

[Atak_Snajpera]

-Multiple subs selection, SRT support (I didn't check this one), remuxing subtitles, I don't like burning subtitles, subtitles must stay "disablable" when watching a video

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6810/new1p.png

I prefer to use q6 ogg quality than q4 for example, I can't select this with ripbot
another crazy audiophile :) Do you really hear difference between q4 an q6???
~128 kbps Vorbis = 192 MP3 in terms of quality. I hear no difference on my Creative Fatali1y headphones above 192 Mp3.

[RiCON]

Indeed. Missed the resize there.
Except it doesn't save the resize "options" from previous encodes and the custom setting doesn't accept input other than using the tiny buttons. When going from 1280 to 512 it took a couple minutes just to get there. That's just annoying. And no, I don't want the preset resolutions.
And there's all this delay analysing the source. When one has more than 2 encodes to do at a time it's not very practical to be spending 5 minutes setting up the encode each time.

[Atak_Snajpera]

And there's all this delay analysing the source.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED! Gui MUST get basic informations about source file! I need resolution , framecount , fps and so on ... How am i supposed to get this info ? From your head?

When going from 1280 to 512 it took a couple minutes just to get there. That's just annoying.
select PSP.iphone and then custom.

[harycover]

Sorry to be a bit OT...


another crazy audiophile :) Do you really hear difference between q4 an q6???


@ Atak_Snajpera

Yes I do hear a difference on a m-audio soundcard and sennheiser headphones :p although on most audio speakers there would be little difference, I think this is an easy option to add to your GUI ;)

So... is multiple audio tracks support scheduled in ripbot dev :D ? that would be great ^^

PS : I feel dumb about subs... I've seen this option but I thought they would be burnt into the image too, my mistake

[turbojet]

I think all guis have strengths and weaknesses but none suite what I'm looking for. So I have to resort to cli for x264 encoding except with full backups (BD-Rebuilder). For XviD I rely on GordianKnot although it's not complete (not very good input, no stream selection). For DVD I rely on DVD-RB for most things but it lacks IVTC support which is the difference between a good and usually really bad looking encode on certain DVD's. However I feel that if you took all the strengths of all the GUI's it would make for a really good gui that everyone who wanted a gui could use. I've made a list of what I've thought about what a good gui should consist of:

GUI:
- Simple GUI like BD-Rebuilder/simple x264 Launcher (only a few buttons, no tabs/pages, after initial setup it should only take a few clicks to start encode by setting input, output, playlist, audio, subs, encoder, device, speed)
- Advanced mode gives access to visual crop, encoder settings/command line, edit avisynth script, ivtc, deinterlace
- programming language that's easily translated between x86, x64, windows, mac, linux
- Input avi/avs/BD/DVD/flv/ifo/m2ts/mkv/mp4/mpls/ogm/ts
- Output AVCHD (x264) AVI (xvid) BD (x264, CCE, HCenc) DVD (CCE, HCenc) (M2)TS (cce, hcenc, x264) MKV (AVC, XviD) MP4 (AVC)
- playlist selection on main window
- easy audio and sub selection on main window that supports multiple audio/subs like BD-Rebuilder/AVCHDcoder with choice to add external streams
- On startup check windows 7 VC-1 settings like BD-Rebuilder/RipBot264
- On startup check to make sure avisynth, ffdshow and haali media splitter are installed
- On startup check if AVC/MPEG2/VC-1 is decodable, if not ask to decode the failed with ffdshow (3x 1 frame video files works)
- customizable working dir (option to delete when done) (option to use output dir)
- customizable output dir
- portable without installer (more work for?), nothing written to registry, no files/dirs outside of the app's directory (except working dir/output dir)
- Update system per component (like MeGUI)
- Profiles like MeGUI except have 2 settings: device and speed/quality
- devices dropbox disabled if AVCHD/BD/DVD selected otherwise have: iPhone, Xbox360, iPod, DXVA, None, etc.
- When a device is set only allow the range of options supported (eg. 720p AVCHD x264 ref 1-6, 1080p ref 1-4)
- speed/quality dropbox: fast, normal, slow (should be enough?)
- Use BDSup2Sub to handle sup/vobsub conversions except OCR (suprip) like RipBot (Java is fairly popular, tsmuxer fails)
- resolution slider like gordian knot, 240x-720x in 8x steps and 720x, 1440x, 1920x
- Compressibility check like gordian knot with compression percentage relative to resolution
- pause/resume button like AVCHDcoder, simple x264 launcher
- dropbox with these portions of media: 1/8 1/6, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 3/4 1, 2, 3, 4
- dropbox for avi/mkv media: CD (700 MB) DVD5 (4480) DVD9 (8145) (calcualtion is very accurate to go within 3 MB of capacity)
- dropbox for AVCHD/DVD media: DVD5 (4475 MB) and DVD9 (8140) (7 MB short for oversize protection and prevent read errors on cheap media)
- dropbox for BD media: BD25 (23850 MB), BD50 (47700 MB) (16 and 32 MB short of capacity, might need more for oversize protection from HD audio overhead)
- editable MB size box for custom size
- detect x64 OS's and give an option to use x64 x264 and xvid (x64 isnt always faster for example x264 --preset veryfast/ultrast or --pass 1)
- dvd input: if one pgc vts use dgindex directly, if multipgc vts use pgcdemux cli to demux the correct pgc before feeding it to dgindex
- use pgcdemux to demux dvd subs, chapters
- queue system like megui but on main page and get rid of owner, start, end, add total time it took
- display (estimate) bitrate calculated, update gui if it changes (vbr audio, subtitle changes)
- option to image/burn with imgburn (option to delete encoded files after burn/image)
- if source is compliant to device setting according to mediainfo and fits output ask if they want to encode video or use original video
- use chaptergen cli to handle chapter conversions
- use dvdauthor for cli dvd authoring (or any alternatives?)
- in advanced mode encoder settings/command line window ability to save/load custom profiles like megui
- in advanced mode allow avisynth preview if mpc-hc/mplayer path set
- while encoding hide encoder window and show fps, eta, time elapsed in main window (any reason for separate window?)
- path options in menu for subrip, suprip, text editor, mpc-hc/mplayer, neroaacenc, cce
- windows 7 taskbar progress
- option to shutdown, sleep when complete

AUDIO:
- Supported audio encoders: aften, faac, flac, lame, nero aac (link to if selected and not found), ogg, surcode dts (detect if installed first)
- use eac3to -keepDialnorm since its a huge help on BD players that support it (same volume between disks) and has no effect on unsupported players
- allow AC3/DTS/DTS-HD/LPCM/TrueHD audio in BD, DTS/AC3 in AVCHD, MP3/AC3 in avi, AAC/AC3/DTS/FLAC/MP3/OGG in mkv, AAC/AC3 in mp4, AC3/DTS/LPCM (48khz)in DVD

VIDEO:
- Supported video encoders: CCE, HCenc, x264, xviD (DivX 6? DivX AVC? MS VC-1?)
- Option to use DGNV tools (50%+ speedup over current VC-1 directshow decoders)
- autocrop all but AVCHD/BD/DVD
- 2 pass for all video encoders
- CRF for x264, Constant Quant for XviD, 1 pass for HCenc, Constant quality for CCE
- remove pulldown if exists
- fix directshowsource issue by adding correct assumefps immediately afterwards
- If 29.97 fps input auto ivtc (use iscombed() from decomb.dll during compressibility check, if 3:2 exists in 20%+(?) use TFM().TDecimate(hybrid=1) (if 4:2 use LeakKernelBob(twoway=true).RePAL(quality=3) it outputs 24.975 so assumefps(25) and enforce audio encode to speedup with eac3to)
- deinterlace if auto ivtc detects it shouldn't be done but only if output isn't BD/DVD (deinterlacing ruins BD/DVD playback)
- if 25i use leakkerneldeint(full=false), very fast and only touches real interlaced frames

COMPLICATED:
- custom menus like multiavchd
- Keep original BD menus, translate to AVCHD and DVD compatible
- keep original DVD menus, translate to AVCHD compatible
- Keep extras
- Edit menu buttons, hiding one blanks target
- pgcedit like trace mode to blank/remove previews, warnings, etc.

Unfortunately I don't have the programming knowledge to do any of this although I can explain (down to the command line) how to do all but the things in the complicated section.

[Kurtnoise]

@Turbojet: there are several contradictions in what you said...all tools described are not x-platform.



and btw, some codecs are redundant.

[buzzqw]

and.. without tabs and panels this gui should be full hd itself ;)

BHH

[MatLz]

You will must use a GUI to use this GUI.
:D

[Atak_Snajpera]

@turbojet
You are a dreamer :) If you were a programmer you wouldn't create this huge wish list. During devopment you would probably drop at least half of it. It is like designing a car for everybody! Not possible. One driver will say too much , other will say too little.

[nakTT]

@turbojet
You are a dreamer :) If you were a programmer you wouldn't create this huge wish list. During devopment you would probably drop at least half of it. It is like designing a car for everybody! Not possible. One driver will say too much , other will say too little.
What if we could give a standard GUI option for average user so they won't say it "too much" and an advanced GUI option for user who want to be able to set every parameter in the x264 using the GUI, so they won't say it "too little"?

[ricardo.santos]

and an advanced GUI option for user who want to be able to set every parameter in the x264 using the GUI, so they won't say it "too little"?

That kind of user wouldnt need a GUI

[nakTT]

That kind of user wouldnt need a GUI
I mean a user like me who might know nothing about how to use command line to encode video + Audio, but want to have all the setting options of the x264 on the GUI (since I basically know what setting options to choose). So far MeGUI and ASXGui fulfill my need in this respect. Perhaps other GUI can also.

[turbojet]

@Turbojet: there are several contradictions in what you said...all tools described are not x-platform.

This is true and I'm not suggesting make it multi-platform but preferably use a language that can be easily adopted to mac/linux when/if the external tools support these OS's, quite a few do already.



and btw, some codecs are redundant.

Do you mean this line?
- allow AC3/DTS/DTS-HD/LPCM/TrueHD audio in BD, DTS/AC3 in AVCHD, MP3/AC3 in avi, AAC/AC3/DTS/FLAC/MP3/OGG in mkv, AAC/AC3 in mp4, AC3/DTS/LPCM (48khz)in DVD

That was done to show codecs per container.

and.. without tabs and panels this gui should be full hd itself ;)

BHH

This one is 530x680

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4319/encodegui.png

@turbojet
You are a dreamer :) If you were a programmer you wouldn't create this huge wish list. During devopment you would probably drop at least half of it. It is like designing a car for everybody! Not possible. One driver will say too much , other will say too little.

Yes I am a dreamer. However all of the stuff I mentioned that's not in the complicated section exists in various gui's so it's all possible. I don't realize how much work it would take and I'd imagine if a few minds worked together it wouldn't be overwhelming, after all most of this is calling external tools. IIRC AutoGK came out within a year after len0x took over the GK project and he was working solo AFAIK. Some of the more complex stuff like auto-ivtc, compression check come from Auto(GK).

[mariush]

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6810/new1p.png


another crazy audiophile :) Do you really hear difference between q4 an q6???
~128 kbps Vorbis = 192 MP3 in terms of quality. I hear no difference on my Creative Fatali1y headphones above 192 Mp3.

Just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't.

[RiCON]

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED! Gui MUST get basic informations about source file! I need resolution , framecount , fps and so on ... How am i supposed to get this info ? From your head?
avs2yuv, y4m, etc. That should take less than a second with DSS().

select PSP.iphone and then custom.
Doing that for 30 encodes is still annoying.

Is is so very hard to keep all the settings from the previous encode? Hell, you can even make it opt-in. Put a button like "Save as Default" or "Use Previous Settings" and after that's pressed, you'd just have to press "Done".

[stax76]

Why not batch encode 30 files?

[Atak_Snajpera]

avs2yuv, y4m, etc.
audio info as well? I don't think so.

Is is so very hard to keep all the settings from the previous encode? Hell, you can even make it opt-in. Put a button like "Save as Default" or "Use Previous Settings" and after that's pressed, you'd just have to press "Done".
At the moment only resize presets are remembered. Why do you use weird 512 resolution?? What's wrong with 640x... ??? In x264 world you don't have to use such low resolutions unless your device does not support more.

[RiCON]

Why not batch encode 30 files?
Because I'd need 30 separate .avs. No point using GUI, then.
audio info as well? I don't think so.

Wavi?
At the moment only resize presets are remembered. Why do you use weird 512 resolution?? What's wrong with 640x... ??? In x264 world you don't have to use such low resolutions unless your device does not support more.
Aegisub in Ubuntu in an Atom netbook (1024x600). Was using 512x288 because it didn't insert any DAR error, unlike 640x360 or 480x272.
Sure, I'll use 480x272 instead.
Would be great if you could also create new profiles for audio and resizing and not just video.

[prOnorama]

another crazy audiophile :) Do you really hear difference between q4 an q6???
~128 kbps Vorbis = 192 MP3 in terms of quality. I hear no difference on my Creative Fatali1y headphones above 192 Mp3.

Sorry but Creative Fatal1Ty aren't exactly audiophile headphones (the "leet" name itself should give a hint, t's a gamer headset apparently), I bet a decent pair of Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic headphones will blow these away.

Anyway my point: IMO you should give the user the freedom of choice regarding bitrate and codec for audio format (whether it's DTS, AC3, MP3, Vorbis, AAC etc.) and not impose your own standards of quality on users who might have different ideas about the quality they desire.

It's easy to choose anything from very low to maximum bitrate in MeGUI, my guess is it would also not be hard to implement in RipBot264. (Just guessing here maybe it is a lot of work)

[Atak_Snajpera]

Sorry but Creative Fatal1Ty aren't exactly audiophile headphones
you would be surprised how good they are!

I bet a decent pair of Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic headphones will blow these away.
How do you know? Have you done a test. ofcourse not! So your statement means nothing for me. If something does not have fancy name it does not mean it is worse! Fatal1Ty is just a marketing name. It does not mean it is only for gamers!

[RiCON]

If you do want users to use your GUI, I'd suggest not being so stubborn about requests to make more quality available to those who do notice the difference.

Also, VBR > ABR.

[stax76]

Because I'd need 30 separate .avs. No point using GUI, then.

You still need to setup options to run against so a GUI is as relevant as when doing a single encode. I'm not sure you understand what's this all about. Do you understand the difference between job processing and batch processing?

[Kurtnoise]

Do you mean this line?
- allow AC3/DTS/DTS-HD/LPCM/TrueHD audio in BD, DTS/AC3 in AVCHD, MP3/AC3 in avi, AAC/AC3/DTS/FLAC/MP3/OGG in mkv, AAC/AC3 in mp4, AC3/DTS/LPCM (48khz)in DVD
no, this one :

Output AVCHD (x264) AVI (xvid) BD (x264, CCE, HCenc) DVD (CCE, HCenc) (M2)TS (cce, hcenc, x264) MKV (AVC, XviD) MP4 (AVC)


About language & external tools : at the moment, you cannot create a single GUI for all platforms using tools mentioned. You have to make choices. This is not a language issue...

[turbojet]

no, this one :

Output AVCHD (x264) AVI (xvid) BD (x264, CCE, HCenc) DVD (CCE, HCenc) (M2)TS (cce, hcenc, x264) MKV (AVC, XviD) MP4 (AVC)

AVC should really be x264 but I don't see any redunancy when talking about encoders.

About language & external tools : at the moment, you cannot create a single GUI for all platforms using tools mentioned. You have to make choices. This is not a language issue...

Which is why I said when/if the tools are supported it can be easily translated. Switching eac3to to tsmuxer for demuxing and using ffmpeg for encoding means you could already do the basic conversion on linux/mac. Subs, multi-pgc, dts encoding are about the only thing I mentioned that can't be done by calling external tools.

[Kurtnoise]

AVC should really be x264 but I don't see any redunancy when talking about encoders.
cce & hcenc = both mpeg-2 encoders. That's not redundant for you ?


Switching eac3to to tsmuxer for demuxing ...
yeah, for basic tasks it's ok but not recommended for BD audio streams extraction (especially for audio gaps correction)...

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

Probably about 15 years of exposure. From the early days of gradual learning and experiencing to full-blown enthusiasm with computer hardware, and using the years of learning to intuitively navigate through new software. As for video encoding. I probably really got into it around 2006, so that's about 3 years... felt a lot longer though.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

Not many. I think the old and outdated ones on Doom9 are the only ones that I've read extensively. The rest of my learning comes from the intuitiveness of the GUI itself and picking up bits of information from various forum posts.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

I started out using Gordian Knot for XviD encodes. I've mostly used it to encode video, and didn't really touch the other stuff. However, because it was so old and outdated, I opted to move onto something more modern, and used MeGUI next.

It was the same situation with MeGUI. I've mostly used it to queue up and batch encodes, but I've also used it for audio encoding too. Both of them pretty much functioned the way I wanted, and any "failures" I can think of just really comes down to nitpicking.

MeGUI has a multitude of functions that I tend to use other tools for before and after encoding, such as VirtualDub to preview and navigate avisynth scripts and mkvtoolnix GUI to mux video with audio.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

I've always used mkvmerge to create MKVs. MeGUI was probably one of the more persistent GUIs I've used.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

Sources vary a lot. Although mostly DVD sources in the past, I've also played around with video capture sources from camcorders, FRAPS, and image sources. AVISynth + VirtualDub has a much bigger influence with how I handle sources than the GUIs I use.

Output is almost exclusively H.264 in an MKV container format. I've only used MP4 where its necessary, such as in devices like the PSP.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

When I wanna set out on a hobby "project," I start off making minor encodes that vary from a few minutes to a few hours. However, when I'm confident to go all-out, I'd queue up several encodes simultaneously. Anywhere from 4 to 8 concurrent encodes, with dozens more in queue, lasting several days at a time.

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

I often spend a lot. At the most complex of preparations, I start off by producing a lossless "original" source file. Then spend a lot of time messing with AVISynth to see what I can come up with. Then sometimes I take an extra step to make a lossless "prepass" encode. And finally a final encode. These don't tend to involve GUIs very much. As I've mentioned earlier, I do a lot of "editing" with AVISynth, and use VirtualDub just to see how it looks. Only when I'm ready to encode do I actually plug it into a handy GUI.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

I still use GUIs, and still prefer to use them. It all comes down to intuitiveness. Can I figure out what the options do without having to refer to an external source? Does the "flow" of the GUI make it feel easy to prepare, set up and execute each step with minimal interference? Are there any minor annoyances that I have to learn to "work around?" There are several factors that goes into a great GUI, and I won't be able to list the problems until the problems come up :D.

[twazerty]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

I have lots of knowledge in hardware. Software also but not that much. I haven't much experience in videoencoding. But I do have my own videoconverter.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

Almost none. Only the guides to do the basic stuff.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

VirtualDub was ok but too much settings for me. MeGUI, far too complicated for the basic stuff I needed, MediaCoder, same problem. I used MeGUI and MediaCoder to create AVCHD's. Also tried ripbot264. But none of them mached with my ideas on how it should work.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

Virtual Dub, couple of years.
MediaCoder, several months.
MeGUI, couple of days.
RipBot264, couple of days.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
In the past I created VCD's. Did no encoding when the DVD format was active. And 16 months ago I started with MKV --> AVCHD.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

1-4 a day. Ofcource not every day :)

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

As little as possible.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

I hated it to do the same steps over and over again. Why setting the resolution over and over again. Why applying the same settings over and over again. I dropped them all and started with my own application when I was capable. AVCHDCoder is the result of it. I added everything that I needed to do a MKV to AVCHD conversion. Dropped all advanced settings because they are not necessary in my opinion. And why should I need more then 1 applications to finish the job? I just added (almost) everything in 1 GUI. In my opinion there is no alternative for AVCHDCoder.

It is just the way how you look at it. Some people like tons of advanced settings. And want to make the 100% perfect output. My opinion it is waste of time. In the past I wasted 10-40 minutes with MeGUI/MediaCoder, tsMuxer etc for only 1 title. In the same time a added 10 movies to the queue and started the process. Go to work/school/sleep and the next morning it is ready to burn. I don't ask much but no application could deliver it to me. RipBot comes close but is missing tons of options that I want to use. ((basic) Menu's, multiple items/multiple audio/perfect bitrate calculation without doing it manually/custom intro) And other tools are missing even more. It are all great applications. I like it but it costs me too much time to use/configure them.

[turbojet]

cce & hcenc = both mpeg-2 encoders. That's not redundant for you ?

If it was codec yes but I listed encoders instead to more precise.

yeah, for basic tasks it's ok but not recommended for BD audio streams extraction (especially for audio gaps correction)...

Actually BD-Rebuilder does multi-m2ts titles with tsmuxer demuxing, it takes a lot of trickery though.

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

About 15 years computing, 10 years encoding.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

From what I can remember just 'The Big Three' DVD guide and 'Gordian Knot' guide on Doom9.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

Just the ones I use somewhat regularly:
Gordian Knot: Not very good workflow (no DVD/BD input stream selection), and missing x264, MPEG2 encoding. Only gui to offer a useful compression check which is very helpful.

MeGUI: Flexible but workflow is not good (no DVD/BD input, stream selection) requires lots of mouse clicks, some time, and a lot of windows to get an encode started. No accurate AVCHD encoding, no DTS encoding.

RipBot264: Workflow could be a little better with subtitle handling when loading a BD. Only app I know of that can handle every sub I've thrown at it thanks to BDSup2Sub. Very small font, the only app I have to change resolution or magnify to use. Lots of waiting and lots of clicks to get things going. No xvid/mpeg2 encoding. Creates some empty folders that are never used. No DTS encoding, doesn't like some audio streams.

AVCHDCoder: Workflow is very good with good stream selection. Don't like the wizard feel. Resizing to 720p with subs often fails. I like the simplicity by only having very few options but some probably won't. A few computers I use just come up with blank screens for any java application even the java control panel, I see it's a common problem without a solution so it may not be usable for many. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support.

BD-Rebuilder: Great workflow. Simplicity is good but entering options in .ini can be a hassle. Resize to 720p fails often. Calculation could be improved. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support. Lacks ivtc support.

DVD-Rebuilder: Great workflow, this is the closest I've seen to a flawless gui except the lack of ivtc support forces me to do a lot of encodes with a bunch of other apps and the lack of a compression check although cce status window gives out quants which is almost as good.

Simple x264 launcher: It's simple which is it's strength and also it's weakness. I choose this when I do the rare crf encode because x64 is faster then x86. Often I do 2 pass encodes where x264 is slower so I choose x86 batch file.

I've tried sx264, HDConvertToX, StaxRip, MediaCoder and from what I can remember they all lacked a decent workflow, no avchd calculation, very little sub support, a lot of encoding options but can be overwhelming.

ConvertXtoDVD has excellent input support and a very good workflow too bad the video encoding leaves a lot to be desired and only DVD output.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

Look at answer 3.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?

BD/DVD sources. Output to avi (xvid), avchd, bd (bdrb full backup), dvd (full backups only), mkv.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

Used to do 10-15 a month but now down to 2-5 a month, recession.

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

A few clicks and less than 5 minutes, preferably most of that time is for compression test.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

I still use a lot of gui's but that's kind of an issue for me. I feel that at the most 3 gui's should do everything I want to do. When it comes to mkv there isn't a gui with a good workflow and I can usually demux/mux/subtitle/audio conversion using an x264 batch file faster with less hassle. With avchd lately I've been doing it mostly manual because I burn to dvd5 and usually resize to 720p and got tired of avchdcoder and bd-rebuilder throwing an error because it couldn't resize the english subs I really could use (not very good at hearing). Using RipBot264 takes longer then running the apps independently.

[Ryo94]

1) 15 years in computing, encoding video since 2000

2) Not to many (less than 20 for sure)

3) GUIs tried: Flaskmpeg, Virtualdub, Staxrip, Avidemux, Formatfactory, Automen

4) Virtualdub since v1.3 (almost for 10 years)
Staxrip since v0.9.2 (3 years ore or less)

5) DVD and captures from camcorders and analog TV

6) A dozen per month more or less

7) 10-30 minutes

8) Lack of features, ugly interface, no response from the author/s when reporting bugs

[Atak_Snajpera]

RipBot264: Workflow could be a little better with subtitle handling when loading a BD. Only app I know of that can handle every sub I've thrown at it thanks to BDSup2Sub. Very small font, the only app I have to change resolution or magnify to use. Lots of waiting and lots of clicks to get things going. No xvid/mpeg2 encoding. Creates some empty folders that are never used. No DTS encoding, doesn't like some audio streams.

Who cares about xvid and mpeg2 when we have ultra efficient x264 codec? If you like ancient codecs why not go back to mpeg1. Also don't tell me that you can prepare and encode Blu-ray faster using only CLI.

Blu-ray footage MUST be demuxed to .mkv in order to get one single file. eac3to also must remove audio gaps. Using TSmuxer for this purpose is not a good idea!

Here what I do:
1) I select .m2ts directly from Bluray-disc (AnyDVD HD running in background)
2) after demuxing with eac3to (30-40 min) I'm ready to encoder first movie.
3) few easy clicks and I'm ready to start encoding.

And now enlighten me how do you encode your BD?
Let me guess.
1) You copy whole disc with AnyDVD HD on Harddrive
2) Then you manually use eac3to to get necessary streams
3) Then you waste time for .avs script in notepad
4) Then you manually use BDSup2Sub in order to resize subs to 720p (if your target is AVCHD)
5) Then you have to calculate bitrate for DVD (Windows calculator?)
6) And finally after encoding you are ready to mux all files.

If we had the same computers I'm 100% sure that I would finish my task with ripbot faster than you do it manually.

No DTS encoding, doesn't like some audio streams.
Who cares about DTS if AC3 640 kbps has the same transparent quality as DTS 1.5Mbps!

AVCHDCoder: Workflow is very good with good stream selection. Don't like the wizard feel. Resizing to 720p with subs often fails. I like the simplicity by only having very few options but some probably won't. A few computers I use just come up with blank screens for any java application even the java control panel, I see it's a common problem without a solution so it may not be usable for many. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support.

BD-Rebuilder: Great workflow. Simplicity is good but entering options in .ini can be a hassle. Resize to 720p fails often. Calculation could be improved. No xvid/mpeg2/mkv support. Lacks ivtc support.

AVCHCoder/BD-Rebuilder as name suggests is not a XVID/MPEG2/MKV encoder. Can't you understand that if something is for everything it is for nothing.

[setarip_old]

@ryo94

VirtualDub is only a GUI?

Naaaaaaaaaaaah...

[Ryo94]

@ryo94

VirtualDub is only a GUI?

Naaaaaaaaaaaah...

@setarip_old

You know, I was tempted to not include it in the list but after seeing it in this main post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129748) treated implicitly as another GUI when it say "Virtualdub, Virtualdubmod, and Avidemux have their own forum" right after the list of GUIs I decided to include it, anyway like the author sites's say it's a "video capture/processing utility" with basic edition capabilities :)

BTW if you're the same setarip from divx-digest I remember getting some good tips from you and other kind users regarding to virtualdub and dvd2avi in that forum when I was doing my first steps in video encoding and dvd ripping around 2001, if it's the case, Thanks :)

[stax76]

@turbojet

You mention work flow very often and say StaxRip don't has a decent work flow, can you please elaborate? Architecture, design, usability and work flow is something I'm concerned, I think RipBot264 and StaxRip are doing good in this regard. I don't no when you tried StaxRip last time, in recent weeks quite a lot improvements were made. You can find a relative stable preview version here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1353805#post1353805). It does good in the DVD/DVB area but lacks in the Blueray/AVCHD area. The growing format jungle makes it very difficult in particular if you have to merge things of different nature like DVD/DVB/Blueray and all other sources into a common interface to support everything in and everything out. It's a lot easier when you focus on a particular area like just DVD or AVCHD or Bluray or support only a limited or restricted feature set or when you design your application as loosely coupled toolbox without no real work flow. Authors are forced to focus on the basics and limit the feature set to what they use personal. Trying to do everything will result in everything being half baked.

[twazerty]

@tubojet, I totally agree with stax76. The more you put into a GUI the worser everything works. Workflow and simplicity is the power of AVCHDCoder and it will get even better in the feature. When you add a second output format like DVD you need to build a lot of stuff to achieve that. It cost you more time to support and develop all this. And nobody want Half Baked stuff.

[setarip_old]

@Ryo94BTW if you're the same setarip from divx-digest I remember getting some good tips from you and other kind users regarding to virtualdub and dvd2avi in that forum when I was doing my first steps in video encoding and dvd ripping around 2001, if it's the case, Thanks Nice to see you in more pleasant/professional surroundings ;>}

[turbojet]

Who cares about xvid and mpeg2 when we have ultra efficient x264 codec?

Anyone that wants to play their BD on DVD players.

Blu-ray footage MUST be demuxed to .mkv in order to get one single file. eac3to also must remove audio gaps. Using TSmuxer for this purpose is not a good idea!

BD-Rebuilder flawlessly does it with tsmuxer. Most BD's I see are single pgc which tsmuxer directly demuxes in less than half the time eac3to takes.

Also don't tell me that you can prepare and encode Blu-ray faster using only CLI.

Here what I do:
1) I select .m2ts directly from Bluray-disc (AnyDVD HD running in background)
2) after demuxing with eac3to (30-40 min) I'm ready to encoder first movie.
3) few easy clicks and I'm ready to start encoding.

And now enlighten me how do you encode your BD?
Let me guess.
1) You copy whole disc with AnyDVD HD on Harddrive
2) Then you manually use eac3to to get necessary streams
3) Then you waste time for .avs script in notepad
4) Then you manually use BDSup2Sub in order to resize subs to 720p (if your target is AVCHD)
5) Then you have to calculate bitrate for DVD (Windows calculator?)
6) And finally after encoding you are ready to mux all files.

If we had the same computers I'm 100% sure that I would finish my task with ripbot faster than you do it manually.

With single m2ts BD's I:
- copy/paste avs template, dss line to the 5 numbers of the m2ts = 30 seconds max
- open batch file, put in estimated bitrate, if 2 hours 4000, if 1.5 5000, etc. I've only found out it only has to be in a general area, drag avs to batch file and start a command that has first and second pass = 30 seconds max
- open m2ts with tsmuxer, choose streams and demux = 1 minute of manual work, 5 minutes of computer work
- convert subs to 720p (if needed), I use a context menu hack = 5 seconds
- calculate with avchd coder where I can see a gui (2-3 minutes) or RipBot264 (10-15 minutes due to analyze on almost every click and converting subs that are already the correct resolution)
- in rare situations I encode DTS to 768 = 1 minute of setup, 10 minutes to process
- enter bitrate in batch file = 5 seconds
- when done mux with tsmuxer = 1 minute of work, 5 minutes of computing

If it's multi-m2ts I use HD extractor in megui, it takes about a minute of setup and 10 minutes to process which is about half the time it takes running eac3to cli for some reason.

In total that's about 5 minutes of preparation time (10 minutes total) for single m2ts, 6 minutes of work for mutli-m2ts (20 minutes total). That's a bit faster than your 30-40 minutes. I'll admit that I'm doing a little more work which could be greatly minimized with the right code.

I also use the rate factor calculated by x264 in the first pass to judge whether or not to increase/decrease resolution for DVD5 (rarely use DVD9).

Who cares about DTS if AC3 640 kbps has the same transparent quality as DTS 1.5Mbps!

May be to you but not for me.

AVCHCoder/BD-Rebuilder as name suggests is not a XVID/MPEG2/MKV encoder. Can't you understand that if something is for everything it is for nothing.

I realize that but most mature gui's have multiple output formats.DVD-Rebuilder, GK, MeGUI. When you already have an avs how tough is it to send a command line to a cli encoder and another line to a muxer? In batch that would take about a minute to code if you are familiar with the command lines. As for your everything for nothing, look at ffdshow, convertxtodvd, gordianknot, megui. All very popular with multiple functionality. While I can understand it might be overwhelming to a single programmer if there was a team project for a gui I don't think it would be overwhelming at all.

I'm currently working on a batch file that will do most of this. So far in about 5 hours of work I've gotten BD input, playlist, audio, sub selection, audio/sub conversion,resolution option, x264 settings with 3 profiles (avchd, bd, one I use for mkv that autocrops) and muxes with tsmuxer or mkvmerge afterwards. Next I'll either work on overhead calculation or compression check, the latter being much easier, and then xvid, cce, hcenc encoding and later on dvd input. I expect it to take me another 5-10 hours of code (much more time for overhead calculation tests). It's nothing fancy but it'll do the job and only takes about a minute to setup (half of that is eac3to scanning) and so far 8 keystrokes are needed.

@turbojet

You mention work flow very often and say StaxRip don't has a decent work flow, can you please elaborate? Architecture, design, usability and work flow is something I'm concerned, I think RipBot264 and StaxRip are doing good in this regard. I don't no when you tried StaxRip last time, in recent weeks quite a lot improvements were made. You can find a relative stable preview version here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1353805#post1353805). It does good in the DVD/DVB area but lacks in the Blueray/AVCHD area. The growing format jungle makes it very difficult in particular if you have to merge things of different nature like DVD/DVB/Blueray and all other sources into a common interface to support everything in and everything out. It's a lot easier when you focus on a particular area like just DVD or AVCHD or Bluray or support only a limited or restricted feature set or when you design your application as loosely coupled toolbox without no real work flow. Authors are forced to focus on the basics and limit the feature set to what they use personal. Trying to do everything will result in everything being half baked.

I spent about a half hour looking at it again and here's the things I didn't care for or changes I would make:

- i have avisynth, xvid already installed but it's asking me to install avisynth and xvid whenever I choose an input
- on first launch it asks for settings dir, any reason to use anything but inside staxrip directory?
- no BD/DVD input, demuxing is a lot of the work for diy
- no simple audio/sub selection, this is also alot of work for diy
- no compression check with percentage
- calculate bitrate and display on main window
- overcomplex codec+container combinations (xvid/divx outside of avi/divx container? x264 in avi/divx container?
- picture statistics like DAR, SAR, PAR takes up alot of gui space and how many use or understand it, maybe have as a tech specs option
- have playlist, audio, subtitle panes replace filters and codec/container panes
- already accesible by double click, have crop as a button instead (everyone will know its clickable)
- avisynth filters, encoder settings button, container button
- move profile and speed/quality to main window, it's an important setting that could be overlooked in a menu
- queue

And on the plus side:
- one page gui
- multiple encoder/container support
- on demand install of large, uncommon or non-distributable tools (although external server system seems like a lot of work)
- resolution slider
- AR error
- encoder profiles
- multiple decoder support (dss, dgsource, etc.)
- avisynth filter/profiles although I'd have a button open a window with current script (editable) with filter categories, profile management on a side or bottom


@tubojet, I totally agree with stax76. The more you put into a GUI the worser everything works. Workflow and simplicity is the power of AVCHDCoder and it will get even better in the feature. When you add a second output format like DVD you need to build a lot of stuff to achieve that. It cost you more time to support and develop all this. And nobody want Half Baked stuff.

I agree workflow and simplicity are keys to every gui, however it can also be powerful and flexible. Doing one thing is good if that's all you need but you know it won't please everyone. It would please a lot more if it did what they wanted it to do, most of the time that's input/output.

[turok]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

Since june or july of this year for encoding so... 5-6 months?

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

Mewiki guide not for MeGUI but actually for x264 options (a little bit though). Read of MeGUI and Staxrip. Although as far as encoding concerns I actually was tutored in it by someone who has been encoding since vhs lol.

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

I tried MeGUI at first but lost interest in it as it wasn't noob friendly. Then turned to Staxrip and only issues are the audio profiles but I heard that Stax76 added the ABR HE-AAC 80kbps profile some time ago?

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

MeGUI: Only for using its AVS Script creator, DG indexer, and Audio encoding (I actually learned how to encode vids with MeGUI but from an unlikely GUI.)

StaxRip: Since I first tried it which was about 5-6 months ago? My Premium choice for video encoding.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
DVD .vob, already encoded material, .ts and .m2ts sources. I usually output in the superior .mkv container. not once I ever did a mp4 or avi.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?

Usually once a week ever since 5-6 months ago. sometimes none or three times a week.

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?

I am a believer in the best quality possible. If it means two days (only one it occurred) then thats what I will have to wait for as quality is my only standard.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?

MeGUI: Well never really liked it and only learned how to use it funnily right after I learned how to use StaxRip. When I was making my profile, editing on b frames and the like, I suddenly figured out how to use MeGUI. But MeGUI has errors and bugs from what I have been hearing around some areas of internet and irc so stayed away from it.

Overall from my own experience I'd say StaxRip the best GUI around for noobs and pros although I hear some pros have issues with StaxRip (lol.) I haven't thought about any other GUI because simply put: StaxRip is just that good

[stax76]

i have avisynth, xvid already installed but it's asking me to install avisynth and xvid whenever I choose an input

It should not ask for AviSynth when it's installed, it would ask continue with wrong version and not ask again.

For XviD it will only ask if the XviD encoder is used or if the yv12 decoder is not one of the following: ffdshow, xvid, helix, I think the yv12 decoder is only needed for drawing the preview and crop dialog so I might convert to rgb in case no proper yv12 decoder is present, that would remove the requirement but if ffdshow is installed anyway than I think it just registers ffdshow on setup. Maybe something didn't work right.

on first launch it asks for settings dir, any reason to use anything but inside staxrip directory?

It's called startup directory and it's generally not good practice to do this, it's should be fully supported though and I've always implemented feature requests in this area but it makes little sense as you have to take care of the settings every time you download a new version. Actually for a long time the startup dir was the first option in this dialog but realized there are problems so it had to go. You can still use the custom option to choose the startup dir, it should be still xcopy compatible and even pickup the settings on a fresh OS install IIRC, this was requested.

no BD/DVD input, demuxing is a lot of the work for diy

I'm just starting with BD/AVCHD, regarding DVD there is probably room for improvement.

no simple audio/sub selection, this is also alot of work

Putting subtitles in the main dialog would have the downside the main dialog gets overloaded. Furthermore it needs a larger interface to change language, name, order, add external files, etc, StaxRip will pickup files automatically. For many sources subtitles are not present or needed. HDConvertToX tab approach isn't bad at all. StaxRip had however always a flat interface since. It's not such a big difference if you open the dialog or switch tabs I think. Every aproach has pros and cons I guess, depends on the user and his sources.

Audio is fine I think, just a listbox/listview has probably more limitations and issues. It picks up the files depending on the active profiles, writes the language to the file name, you choose a profile if the template didn't had the right profiles, pretty easy everything.

no compression check with percentage

You didn't find the compression check? There is probably a whole lot more you didn't not find or understand!


overcomplex codec+container combinations (xvid/divx outside of avi/divx container? x264 in avi/divx container?

I don't see a problem here, normally you would start with a template that has everything in place. If you would load a different encoder with compatible muxer it keeps the muxer with all settings but if the current muxer is not compatible it would use the default muxer. If this would result in the audio being not compatible audio sticks, I considered to change it but had doubts, the assistant would just tell there is a problem and the user would pick either a different container profile or audio profile. It has advantages to show only compatible stuff but I have doubts that would be good doing in StaxRip, I never really thought about this.

calculate bitrate and display on main window

You missed fundamental things here like choosing a 2 pass encoder profile, you get size, bitrate, compressibility and quality percentage on the main dialog.

picture statistics like DAR, SAR, PAR takes up alot of gui space and how many use or understand it, maybe have as a tech specs option

Some users need this, I think StaxRip does good when it comes to image size, cropping, aspect ratios etc., you are right that many users don't understand things but this is true for every any other area as well.

have playlist, audio, subtitle panes replace filters and codec/container panes

I wrote a bit about audio and subtitles, what's wrong about filters? you can easily change filters with the context menu, fully customize available filters, even their menu structure, actually you can customize the menu structure pretty much everywhere, you can reorder filters with drag & drop, there are tons of such hidden features, mouse wheel features, modifier key features (alt/ctrl/shift features). Many users probably don't know/understand half of the features StaxRip.

have crop as a button instead

There is a link label to open the crop dialog, for the preview I use the F5 key. The problem is you have to decide for what you make buttons and stuff, you can't have everything otherwise the interface would become GK like overloaded. You can use the main menu btw for custom buttons, root items usually have no click handler but sub menus but that don't mean they need sub items or cannot have click handlers. Maybe I should use the menu style I designed for some of my other applications and add some buttons. Here are screenshots about of this menu style:

http://www.stax76.bplaced.net/index.php?slab=filetyperegistryviewer

http://www.stax76.bplaced.net/index.php?slab=staxbackup

move profile and speed/quality to main window

I thought about this, the encoder groupbox currently using a listbox could be used, the basic architecture to do this is there as it already shows a custom control depending on encoder.

avisynth filter/profiles although I'd have a button open a window with current script (editable) with filter categories, profile management on a side or bottom

StaxRip uses a abstraction layer breaking the scripts in parts to work with filter profiles using a ListView. Lot's of features depend on this architecture, try to check/uncheck crop or resize for instance and all calculations and everything will reflect this, today I made a big improvement in this area, it's now possible to make changes that affect image size frame rate, length etc. and StaxRip updates all controls and verifications for the source and target parameters (the source parameters are determined using the source filters item). It's not possible to move back and forth from code to abstraction. AVS files can be opened and I changed it now that all filters will be unchecked to use only the code of the opened avs file.

@turok

I tried MeGUI at first but lost interest in it as it wasn't noob friendly. Then turned to Staxrip and only issues are the audio profiles but I heard that Stax76 added the ABR HE-AAC 80kbps profile some time ago?

I've added some profiles lately but since there is a new GUI for audio making custom profiles is as very easy. Should be usable in preview 3.

[turbojet]

Subtitles are on almost every legitimate source whether people need them or not is up to them but consider all the foreign films, non-english speakers, hard of hearing people and it adds up. If you are concerned about gui overload the DAR, SAR, etc. that few people know is eating up about 1/3 of the gui. Context menu's can keep the audio/sub panes small. The way you have audio setup now means manual demux which would pretty much make BD/DVD input useless. Demuxing when the BD/DVD is inputted like RipBot264 is a huge waste of time and much better left to be done after a user has everything setup and hits encode. Outside of crop/resize you have to think about how many are using the additional filters, in my opinion it's not worth using 1/6 the gui when it could be a button instead.

The fact that I didn't see things like bitrate and compression checks speak for how complicated the gui is to use. I'm not picking just on staxrip, most gui's have out-of-place things. Gordian Knot I think is fairly simple, has things where most would look and is pretty functional. I'd have to disagree on it being overloaded but I only use 2 panes. It's workflow (need to demux first) could be much improved which it was with AutoGK but most of the functionality disappeared.

[Ryo94]

I vote for leave the filter as they are, I use a lot deinterlacing for dvds and noise reduction filter for analog captures (the addition of a deblock filter would be nice).
The info related to the video picture (DAR, PAR, SAR) are perfect to me, even tiny GUIs like Automen included them.
GK as GUI was horrendously overloaded, same goes for SUPER and Mediacoder.
Please Stax keep the GUI clean and friendly like its now.

Kind Regards.

[Blue_MiSfit]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?

I've been messing with computers for nearly 20 years (since I was a little squirt), and video encoding for the past 10, give or take

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?

I read a lot of tutorials back in the early 2000's when things were getting interesting, but after I acquired the basic knowledge, I tended to learn by reading discussion - mostly here!

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?

Gordian Knot - Used this for a long time to rip DVDs ;) It was good for doing simple 1-2CD AVI backups of DVDs using Xvid or DivX. I moved on to manual encodes when AviSynth piqued my interest.

MeGUI - I also used this for a long time, as it's a nice tool that brings together lots of "modern" tools. I've currently gotten into doing lots of CLI, especially since x264's interface was recently simplified (HUGELY), so I almost never use it anymore. I hear there's a new version that works with newer x264 builds, but I haven't tried (and probably won't)

MeGUI's problems were mostly its speed. Opening it takes a LONG time, and the interface in general was rather slow. Most of it was well designed, but meh..

Lord Mulder's simple x264 GUI - Awesome. Simple. Fast. Automates x264_x64 + avs2yuv so I can use 32 bit avisynth. All I ever need these days!

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?

Erm... this is the same question as #3 ;)

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Almost all my personal sources are BluRay, and a few are DVD. I always output to MKV, keeping the original audio track (or a high bitrate AAC transcode of a lossless / PCM source), and CRF encoding with x264. I always store on my array of 1.5 TB HDDs. I will occasionally do a more limited encode with DXVA compatibility if I'm going to a friend's house who has a DXVA capable video card, but no BluRay drive.

At work, all my sources are either extremely high bitrate MPEG-2 Program / Transport streams, or ProRes / MJPEG QuickTime digital mezzanine files. They're massive, and a pain to work with!! I output transport streams at various bitrates containing dolby digital plus audio and h.264 video *encoded via x264 ;)*

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
At home, anywhere from 1 to 10 a week

At work, 300-500 a week :)

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
Most of the time, I'll spend no more than 15 minutes prepping a script. In fact, most movies I barely touch at all, since BluRay is usually pretty good. My work sources sometimes require some special treatment, but again I rarely spend more than 15 minutes prepping an encode.

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
Speed, compatibility / stability, and poor layout. I know how it all works under the hood, and I prefer to simply write my scripts and use CLI most of the time. Except Mulder's GUI. That thing rocks ;)


[/QUOTE]

[Ramir Gonzales]

6.) how many encodes do make in a given time frame?
At home, anywhere from 1 to 10 a week

at work, 300-500 a week :)


pirate alert !!

All personnel go immediate to deck, there is a pirate above us !!!

[lnatan25]

pirate alert !!

All personnel go immediate to deck, there is a pirate above us !!!
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn319/LeoNatan/coolpirate.png

[buzzqw]

i have signaled both post to moderators

BHH

[sharza]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Computing - lots, lots and even more - video encoding - not much, newbie and hate it.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
I lost track....

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
RipBot and meGUI... tried them somewhat through, I can hardly tell if they failed, probably not them who failed - rather the user (me).

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
Auto Guardian knot for dvd's and avi's... mostly stayed out of reencoding too much myself as time's an issue.

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Today my sources are bluray or hdtv - rarily dvd's as I would avoid them if at all possible.

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
Varies alot...

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
None...

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
N/A

[Emulgator]

1: Computing (well, bits of signal analysis on TMS 32010 (TI), industrial A/D conversion in audio and ultrasonic range on MP 2735-2 (Analogic),
CP/M, MS-DOS 3.1 since 1986, WinMe98 1st since 1998 (uh, hate, WTF?),
WinXP since 2001 (ah, finally it works for me, not only for others, video becomes possible),
Software-based Video encoding (MPEG-2) since 2002, MPEG-4 since 2007.
2: Some, and repeatedly.
3: CCE, Mainconcept, HC, TE2.5, TE4XP, WavtoAC3, VirtualDub, MeGUI, RipBot264, multiAVCHD.
4: Almost all of them, TE2.5 and MC decaying.
5: Own camera takes, noisy and grainy stuff to be restored, whatever people bring. No rips. Output: DVD/BD.
6: Almost daily.
7: Depending on complexity. Sometimes more than 8 test encodes to find the perfect setting, sometimes straighter.
8: The GUI is not my main concern, the encoding quality is.

But to give kind of an insight to a wish list:
GUI, show me what you can do. At once. No fancy buttons. Resizable, scrollable, minimizable.
Not too many hidden things (rightclicks depending on position), not too many tabs or separate windows.

A: Top pane: Source path / output path. (Remember these. Override input/output path this time.)
B: My suggestion would be that that the total parameter structure of the chosen encoder is shown
in a left pane as in any explorer folder tree.
C: Have this controlled by a middle pane with profile selections.
Selections like "DVD-multiangle" "Blu-ray standalone L4.1" would grey out the now impossible parameter options on the left pane,
forcing them back if you prefer to reactivate these by clicking on these anyway,
but should give override warning and greying out the selection in the middle again,
still allowing to bring them back as you click on these.
D: Finally the right (and more right) pane(s) should allowing tuning of bitrates, GOP sizes, matrices,
always with feedback to their left panes (warn if setting overrides, grey out if override confirmed, come back if clicked on)
if your setting would excceeed the compliancy you just specified a pane before.
E: Realtime preview zoomable 4:1/2:1/1:1/1:2/1:4 with thinning, frames / fields / fields double height,
frametypes I/P/B, bits/bitrate spent, maybe in an extra window, minimizeable
F: Settings human-readable in .ini or .xml pane outmost right ? etc.
G: Now the bottom pane:
H: Show the called encoder version on top of the commandline.
I: I'd like to see the commandline at the bottom, updated in realtime while editing.
J: I'd like to have direct access to the commandline while editing.
K: Now the buttons rows below the commandline:
#Start #Pause #Stop now with a useable file unto this point # Stop after this pass with an useable file #Abort.
L:After encode:
#Do nothing. #Power down. #Stand-by. #Hibernate. #Start Program...
M: Show the progress bar (frame position) with elapsed, estimated remaining, estimated total encoding time.
N: Show the (number of) passes progress bar with the Encoding.../Finished! sign to the right.
O: (error/success sound.)
P: Log window.

[7ekno]

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
Fair bit, years of PC/Server fixes / installs / recoveries, etc

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
1 or 2, I rely on the UI being easy enough to work out ...

3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
MeGUI - almost daily for everything (from DVD/BD backup to home movie MOV/MTS files), when that broke I went in search of a new GUI, but nothing I found could select 20 AVS files at a time to import (couldn't work it out in StaxRip, Ripbot264 doesn't do it, ConvertHDtoX would crash), so I settled on doing it via CMD file and commandlines (for %I in (blah blah))

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
MeGUI almost forever until it broke, then HDConvertToX never ran, Ripbot264 for the times I couldn't do encodes in BAT, StaxRip as a backup

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
Output: H.264 + AC3/AAC LE inside MKV
Input varies: DGIndex (or now DGTools) DVD or Bluray (so MPEG2 + AC3 or H.264 + AC3/DTS), MTS AVCHDlite files from Digicam (H.264 1280x720@25p at ~ 17mbps + 2 channel AC3), MOV files from Digicam (MJPEG + single channel PCM), AVS scripts (video only, would love a GUI to batch select AVS files and match them to AC3 files!!) to cleanup BD/DVD & Digicam stuff

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?Have a single PC (AMD x4) encoding almost 24/7 (well, when it stops it usually takes a while to generate AVS scripts for the next lots of encodes)

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
Shorter the better!! A GUI that acts like AvSP (but has a few template selections user generated) and can auto enque to encode would fricken rock!!! (the fall down of all the GUIs I have tried is that I take the time to generate the custom AVSs, which is fine, but then having to import them one by one into a GUI can take HOURS - being able to select all the AVSs at one time and letting the GUI enque them would ROCK!!!!)

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
Gave up because after taking time to customise the AVS files it would take HOURS to import them one by one into a que (whereas with a BAT/CMD file I could just double click it after finishing the AVS scripts and it would work thru them all for me ... kinda funny an old school BAT/CMD file can do what GUIs couldn't - or the ones I tried couldn't !!!!! )

7ek

[smok3]

Gave up because after taking time to customise the AVS files it would take HOURS to import them one by one into a que (whereas with a BAT/CMD file I could just double click it after finishing the AVS scripts and it would work thru them all for me ... kinda funny an old school BAT/CMD file can do what GUIs couldn't - or the ones I tried couldn't !!!!! )
:goodpost:

[stax76]

StaxRip does batch processing better then any other application I know so where is the problem?

[stax76]

@turbojet

I've worked on the toolbar and codec issue you raised, I'm not sure yet if I should also add subtitle selection to the main dialog, so far you were the only one suggesting it.

http://www.filedropper.com/staxrip1141

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5229/77354791.png (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/77354791.png/) http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/77354791.png/1/w822.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img684/77354791.png/1/)

[/mp]

Getting back to the origin of this thread:


I've a couple of questions to GUI users, non GUI users are welcome to post as well of course. I hope the thread will be useful to explore different natures of GUIs and users.

1.) How much experience do you have in computing in general and in video encoding?
computer formal education ~'78-'84; computers as playthings '78-present. Audio & video editing/encoding professionally '97-present, mpeg4 pt10 professionally '08-present.

2.) How many tutorials on video encoding and GUIs have you read?
many, many


3.) Which GUIs have you tried and how thoroughly have you tried them? Where did they fail?
real/helix encoder 8, 9; cleaner 5, XL, live 2; WME (9?), Sorenson Squeeze 3, 4, 5; Procoder 2, 3; Rhozet Carbon Coder (demo license); Digital Rapids Stram Pro 2; Apple Compressor 2, 3; Telestream Episode Pro 5; Pinnacle Stream Factory. Apple FCP, Avid XP/MC. Cinestream. Flash encoder CS3/4. Tmpgenc. VLC media player (kinda splits the difference between command line & GUI).
I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
If the product works/ed well I use/d it until obsolescence. Different tools in the toolbox for different jobs.

4.) Which GUIs have you been used over the years and for how long?
see (3)

5.) Of what nature are your sources and your output format?
souce: SD DV via IEEE1394 (almost exclusively), DVD, web, etc (rarely)
output: (as per server/client requirement/vintage) real, wmv, qt, .flash, mp4, DV (back to tape)

6.) How many encodes do make in a given time frame?
several per week usually

7.) How much time do you like preparing an encode?
I like to hand tweak each file for best result; supervisor likes me to just churn them out. let's split the difference and write not much

8.) For what reasons did you give up using GUIs or not even start?
I haven't. Currently I mostly use the main concept mpeg4 CODEC in sorenson squeeze. Don't recall which for flash. Stream Pro for streaming real live.

No one else replying to this thread wrote they use commercial software, IIRC.

N.B.
i) I prefer GUIs which show previews.
ii) I haven't been a programmer in 25 years. Don't expect me to write code.
iii) ~13 years prof encoding experience & I know enough about H.264 to glimpse the profundity of my ignorance.
iv) would like to find an x264 GUI that's bug free/mission critical stable, easy to use but all (most anyway) features selectable, reads QT Ref as source, & uses all cores for each file. Kindly reply if you know such an animal exists.

Delurking,
/mp

[smok3]

reads QT Ref as source
+1 (i just realized handbrake is not working like that today...)
edit: or it has problems with prores

[stax76]

I don't know what 'QT Ref' is, I have one sample clip MediaInfo identifies as QuickTime
and how StaxRip handles it by default can be seen below. Because there is a huge
format jungle it's hardly possible to handle every format perfectly, because of this
there are various options in StaxRip to change the handling, in case the default handling
is not doing good. Suggestions regarding the default handling and sample files are welcomed.



------------------------------------------------------------
Environment
------------------------------------------------------------

StaxRip version: 1.1.4.7
OS Name : Windows 7 Ultimate
OS Version : 6.1.7100.0
OS Type : 32-bit
OS Culture : German (Germany)

------------------------------------------------------------
.NET
------------------------------------------------------------

v2.0.50727 : 2.0.50727.4918
v3.0 : 3.0.30729.4918
v3.5 : 3.5.30729.4918
v4\Client : 4.0.21006
v4\Full : 4.0.21006

------------------------------------------------------------
AviSynth Plugins
------------------------------------------------------------

DirectShowSource, TCPDeliver

------------------------------------------------------------
Source file info
------------------------------------------------------------

D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov

General
Complete name : D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 128 MiB
Duration : 2mn 23s
Overall bit rate : 7 482 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:47
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 2mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 6 519 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 544 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.390
Stream size : 111 MiB (87%)
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:40
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 2mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Rear: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 10.9 MiB (9%)
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:40
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51

Menu
ID : 3
Encoded_Date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:40
Tagged_Date : UTC 2007-12-22 04:31:51


------------------------------------------------------------
Demux AVC to MKV using ffmpeg
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\ffmpeg\ffmpeg.exe" -i "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov"
-y -vcodec copy -an "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv"

FFmpeg version SVN-r20878, Copyright (c) 2000-2009 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
built on Dec 16 2009 06:01:45 with gcc 4.2.4
configuration: --enable-memalign-hack --prefix=/mingw --cross-prefix=i686-mingw32- --cc=ccache-i686-mingw32-gcc
--target-os=mingw32 --arch=i686 --cpu=i686 --enable-avisynth --enable-gpl
--enable-version3 --enable-zlib --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libfaad --enable-pthreads --enable-libvorbis
--enable-libtheora --enable-libspeex --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libxvid --enable-libschroedinger
--enable-libx264 --enable-libopencore_amrwb --enable-libopencore_amrnb
libavutil 50. 7. 0 / 50. 7. 0
libavcodec 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavformat 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavdevice 52. 2. 0 / 52. 2. 0
libswscale 0. 7. 2 / 0. 7. 2
[mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2 @ 0x37ce50]max_analyze_duration reached
Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 4800.00 (4800/1) -> 24.00 (24/1)
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov':
Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
Duration: 00:02:23.16, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 7482 kb/s
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1280x544, 6519 kb/s, 24 tbr, 2400 tbn, 4800 tbc
Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 639 kb/s
Stream #0.2(eng): Data: tmcd / 0x64636D74
Stream #0.3(eng): Data: rtp / 0x20707472, 316 kb/s
Output #0, matroska, to 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv':
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: libx264, yuv420p, 1280x544, q=2-31, 6519 kb/s, 1k tbn, 2400 tbc
Stream mapping:
Stream #0.0 -> #0.0
Press [q] to stop encoding
video:113936kB audio:0kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.025823%

Start: 21:28:43
End: 21:28:51
Duration: 00:00:07

------------------------------------------------------------
mkvinfo for mkv file about to demux
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\MKVtoolnix\mkvinfo.exe" --ui-language
en "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv"

+ EBML head
|+ EBML version: 1
|+ EBML read version: 1
|+ EBML maximum ID length: 4
|+ (Unbekanntes Element: EBMLMaxSizeLength; ID: 0x42f3 Größe: 4)
|+ Doc type: matroska
|+ Doc type version: 2
|+ Doc type read version: 2
+ Segment, size 116700925
|+ Seek head (subentries will be skipped)
|+ EbmlVoid (Größe: 145)
|+ Segment information
| + Timecode scale: 1000000
| + Muxing application: Lavf52.43.0
| + Writing application: Lavf52.43.0
| + Segment UID: 0x68 0x64 0x3d 0x38 0x08 0xa3 0xb2 0xff 0xeb 0x0e 0x38 0x7e 0xac 0x93 0xe7 0x8d
| + Duration: 143.125s (00:02:23.125)
|+ Segment tracks
| + A track
| + Track number: 1
| + Track UID: 1
| + Lacing flag: 0
| + Language: eng
| + Codec ID: V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
| + Track type: video
| + Video track
| + Pixel width: 1280
| + Pixel height: 544
| + CodecPrivate, length 35
|+ Cluster

------------------------------------------------------------
Demux MKV using mkvextract
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\MKVtoolnix\mkvextract.exe" tracks "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.mkv"
1:"D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.h264" --ui-language en

Extracting track 1 with the CodecID 'V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC' to the file 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.h264'. Container format: AVC/h.264 elementary stream

Start: 21:28:51
End: 21:28:56
Duration: 00:00:04

------------------------------------------------------------
Demux AAC using ffmpeg
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\ffmpeg\ffmpeg.exe" -i "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov" -y -acodec copy
-vn "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.m4a"

FFmpeg version SVN-r20878, Copyright (c) 2000-2009 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
built on Dec 16 2009 06:01:45 with gcc 4.2.4
configuration: --enable-memalign-hack --prefix=/mingw --cross-prefix=i686-mingw32- --cc=ccache-i686-mingw32-gcc --target-os=mingw32 --arch=i686 --cpu=i686 --enable-avisynth
--enable-gpl --enable-version3 --enable-zlib --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libfaad --enable-pthreads --enable-libvorbis --enable-libtheora --enable-libspeex
--enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libxvid --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libx264 --enable-libopencore_amrwb --enable-libopencore_amrnb
libavutil 50. 7. 0 / 50. 7. 0
libavcodec 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavformat 52.43. 0 / 52.43. 0
libavdevice 52. 2. 0 / 52. 2. 0
libswscale 0. 7. 2 / 0. 7. 2
[mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2 @ 0x162ce50]max_analyze_duration reached
Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 4800.00 (4800/1) -> 24.00 (24/1)
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC.mov':
Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
Duration: 00:02:23.16, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 7482 kb/s
Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1280x544, 6519 kb/s, 24 tbr, 2400 tbn, 4800 tbc
Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 639 kb/s
Stream #0.2(eng): Data: tmcd / 0x64636D74
Stream #0.3(eng): Data: rtp / 0x20707472, 316 kb/s
Output #0, ipod, to 'D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.m4a':
Stream #0.0(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 5.1, 639 kb/s
Stream mapping:
Stream #0.1 -> #0.0
Press [q] to stop encoding
size= 3873kB time=49.58 bitrate= 640.0kbits/s
size= 10431kB time=133.53 bitrate= 640.0kbits/s
size= 11238kB time=143.17 bitrate= 643.0kbits/s
video:0kB audio:11185kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.474731%

Start: 21:28:56
End: 21:28:58
Duration: 00:00:02

------------------------------------------------------------
DGAVCIndex - Demux and index AVC
------------------------------------------------------------

"D:\Projekte\StaxMedia\trunk\StaxRip\bin\Applications\DGAVCIndex\DGAVCIndex.exe" -i "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.h264"
-o "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\\10000 BC.dga" -a -e

Demuxer: DGAVCIndex - Demux and index AVC
Start: 21:28:59
End: 21:29:10
Duration: 00:00:11

------------------------------------------------------------
Source Macros
------------------------------------------------------------

Source Directory: D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\
Source Directory Name: 10000 BC temp files
Source Directory Parent: D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\
Source File Path: D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.dga
Source Files Blank: "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.dga"
Source Files Comma: "D:\Video\Samples\MOV hd\10000 BC temp files\10000 BC.dga"
Source Framerate: 25.00
Source Frames: 3436
Source Image Height: 544
Source File Name: 10000 BC
Source Seconds: 137
Source Image Width: 1280

[/mp]

Some video editing applications (e.g. Avid, Final Cut) can export a quicktime reference file for use by an encoding application. The audio track(s) are exported as normal but the video track(s) are just pointers to the media. This speeds up the export a lot. The encoding software (e.g. tmpmgenc, squeeze, episode) reads the reference file as if it were an actual .mov file.

The other advantage of QT refs are only 1 encode cycle. If the editing application exports a "real" quicktime but it's not the desired terminal format, the encoding application must re-encode (transcode) from .mov to [desired format]

I found this on the web if it's any clearer:
A Quicktime Reference file is a small file (typically about 1 to 2 kilobytes) that can refer to non-Quicktime media files and make those media files appear as Quicktime files to applications that are able to read Quicktime files. So, for instance, Quicktime reference files can be created on a Windows or Macintosh OS computer such that Avid's "mxf or "omf" files appear to be valid "Quicktime Files".

Generally, Quicktime Reference Files are files having links to that audio and video media files that are NOT in the Quicktime format and that make those files appear to be in the Quicktime Format so that they can be played by any Quicktime-compliant applications.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/ja/wo.jsp?WO=2009129252&IA=US2009040546&DISPLAY=DESC

Hope this helps,
/mp

[smok3]

i think quicktime itself can make those ref files itself also? (in any case, one needs to unselect 'make movie self-contained').

screenshot, what apple-info and mediainfo have to say about such file;
http://imagebin.org/84157