BD RB to convert a BD VC-1 to BD H.264

[WildTexasChef]

I have started to get a collection of BD movies/TV shows that are now using the VC-1 codec.

I want to convert the VC-1 video track into a H.264 video track. By doing this, I can then take the newly created BD Folder and create a file that can then be played on my TiVo HD unit, or even covert it to Divx HD to play on my networked video player.

BD Rebuilder seem to work just fine when I ran it. It created the new BD folder, with just the movie file I want that contained just the video, audio and subtitle tracks. Yet it did NOT convert the VC-1 video track into a H.264 video track.

Here is how I had the settings set for BD RB

Under:

"Encoder" I have selected x264 encoder

"Encoder settings" Idle priority and Highest (Very slow)

"Options" Target Size BD-25

Then under the "Setup" window I have the following options set.

"Audio languages to Keep" - English

"Subtitle Languages to keep" - English

Limit to one track for each language is checked for audio

Limit to one track for each language is checked for subtitles

General Encoding options are:

Stricter AVCHD compliance for movie only checked
Remove Workfiles after rebuild checked

All other items are UNCHECKED. The only other options are:
REszie 1080p to 720p
Color Boost
DO not convert DTS to AC3
Do not reencode AC3
Use 448kbs for AC3
Keep HD audio for BD25 encoding

I checked the newly created file with several different player programs. As well as Eac3to They all read the video track as being VC-1.

What am I missing?

The above BD I was using wasn't a BBC movie/TV show. It is several movies/TV shows from NBC universal.

Now I also have the NEW blu-ray versions of Dr. Who / Torchwood series that is having the same problem. But as I see from another thread that I have to use some type of tweak with these?

Thanks

WTC

[Sharc]

If the files fit onto the target size without compression BD-RB will not re-encode these but leave them untouched.
You can however force the re-encoding by adding FORCE_ENCODING=1 to the [Options] area of the BDREBUILDER.INI.
You can edit the .ini file via File / View/Edit Config file, or using notepad.

[drmih]

There's no longer any need to use any tweak with the BBC discs on the latest versions.

[GaPony]

I have started to get a collection of BD movies/TV shows that are now using the VC-1 codec.

I want to convert the VC-1 video track into a H.264 video track. By doing this, I can then take the newly created BD Folder and create a file that can then be played on my TiVo HD unit, or even covert it to Divx HD to play on my networked video player.

BD Rebuilder seem to work just fine when I ran it. It created the new BD folder, with just the movie file I want that contained just the video, audio and subtitle tracks. Yet it did NOT convert the VC-1 video track into a H.264 video track.

Here is how I had the settings set for BD RB

Under:

"Encoder" I have selected x264 encoder

"Encoder settings" Idle priority and Highest (Very slow)

"Options" Target Size BD-25

Then under the "Setup" window I have the following options set.

"Audio languages to Keep" - English

"Subtitle Languages to keep" - English

Limit to one track for each language is checked for audio

Limit to one track for each language is checked for subtitles

General Encoding options are:

Stricter AVCHD compliance for movie only checked
Remove Workfiles after rebuild checked

All other items are UNCHECKED. The only other options are:
REszie 1080p to 720p
Color Boost
DO not convert DTS to AC3
Do not reencode AC3
Use 448kbs for AC3
Keep HD audio for BD25 encoding

I checked the newly created file with several different player programs. As well as Eac3to They all read the video track as being VC-1.

What am I missing?

The above BD I was using wasn't a BBC movie/TV show. It is several movies/TV shows from NBC universal.

Now I also have the NEW blu-ray versions of Dr. Who / Torchwood series that is having the same problem. But as I see from another thread that I have to use some type of tweak with these?

Thanks

WTC

If you're just making a movie only, don't you end up with a single .m2ts file?

I think you could simply rename the 00001.m2ts file to something like <My Movie> .mp4. Thats what worked for a device I was having some trouble with (DLNA HDTV).

[WildTexasChef]

Here is the message window that BD RB gave when trying to do what I wanted it to do. Or at least thought so.

-----------------------
[12:29:00] BD Rebuilder v0.28.04 (beta)
- Source: S1_D5-BR
- Input BD size: 19.10 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:37:39.987]
- Target BD size: 22.46 GB
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
[12:29:00] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [12:29:00] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00003]
- [12:49:54] Reencoding: VID_00003 (1 of 2)
- [12:49:54] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [12:56:49] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00004]
- [13:18:08] Reencoding: VID_00004 (2 of 2)
- [13:18:08] Keeping original video (no reencode)
[13:30:46]PHASE ONE complete
[13:30:46]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
- [13:30:46] Rebuilding BD file Structure
[13:46:51] - Encode and Rebuild complete
- WORKFILES folder removed.
[13:46:51]JOB: S1_D5-BR finished.

However... I will now try it with the FORCE_ENCODING=1 option set in the config file and see what happens.

Thanks

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

If you're just making a movie only, don't you end up with a single .m2ts file?

I think you could simply rename the 00001.m2ts file to something like <My Movie> .mp4. Thats what worked for a device I was having some trouble with (DLNA HDTV).

Yes, it end up with just the one .M2TS file.

When I play that single file in various player programs it reports that the video track is VC-1.

TSMuxer reports the video track as VC-1

Eac3To also reports the video track as being VC-1.

I tried a simple rename to mp4, .264, as well as TS and even leaving as TS. I even demuxed and remuxed the m2ts file into a MKV. It still wouldn't play on my target device as my target device won't play VC-1 video tracks.

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

There's no longer any need to use any tweak with the BBC discs on the latest versions.

I am using v0.28.04 (Beta) is that the latest version?

Thanks

:thanks:

WTC

[GaPony]

Ok... So open the S1_D5-BR\BDMV\STREAM folder and you "should" find 00000.m2ts or something similar. Just renaming it to an .mp4 file extension should make it work.

You do need to be sure to select the correct language track and only that track before starting the BD_Rebuilder process, because you won't be able to select the language, but thats a fairly simple thing. And in the case of multi-track audio, you can remove the unwanted language tracks later.

EDIT: I see you already got this far. :D I also noticed from another forum that you've been working on this since at least last November... :eek:

[WildTexasChef]

Ok... So open the S1_D5-BR\BDMV\STREAM folder and you "should" find 00000.m2ts or something similar. Just renaming it to an .mp4 file extension should make it work.


I did try that & it didn't work. However, I tried that before adding the FORCE_ENCODING=1 option. It is now running on my other computer. So when it finishes, I will try the rename thing and see if it works.


EDIT: I see you already got this far. :D I also noticed from another forum that you've been working on this since at least last November... :eek:


Yep... but I hadn't worked on this issue for quite a while because of family issues, as well as I took a very nice long long vacation cruise. ;) Besides that, back then I didn't really have very many VC-1 Blu-rays to deal with. Maybe 1 or 2. Now that more movies/TV shows are being released with VC-1 content, it has started to become a more pressing issue.

Especially now that 2 of my favorite shows (Dr. Who & Torchwood) are being released on Blu-ray. ;)

WTC

[setarip_old]

@WildTexasChef

You now have three EXTREMELY similar threads running (This is a violation of the Doom9 Forum rules).

To avoid confusion and repetition, you should let two of them "die" and limit your (and my and other members) posting related to VC-1 conversion to one thread.

Since I originally steered you to "BD-Rebuilder", I'd suggest you continue to post (only) to this thread regarding this topic...


So when it finishes, I will try the rename thing and see if it works.That won't be necessary, as the video will have been re-encoded to .264 format...

[jdobbs]

Yes, it end up with just the one .M2TS file.

When I play that single file in various player programs it reports that the video track is VC-1.

TSMuxer reports the video track as VC-1

Eac3To also reports the video track as being VC-1.

I tried a simple rename to mp4, .264, as well as TS and even leaving as TS. I even demuxed and remuxed the m2ts file into a MKV. It still wouldn't play on my target device as my target device won't play VC-1 video tracks.

WTC That's because it is VC-1. When the size of the output isn't changing you have to set FORCE_ENCODE=1 (not "FORCE_ENCODING=1", my mistake -- my change log was written incorrectly) to make sure it is converted to AVC. By default BD-RB won't waste the time to reencode... because the Blu-ray standard accepts VC-1.

[WildTexasChef]

@WildTexasChef

You now have three EXTREMELY similar threads running (This is a violation of the Doom9 Forum rules).

To avoid confusion and repetition, you should let two of them "die" and limit your (and my and other members) posting related to VC-1 conversion to one thread.

Since I originally steered you to "BD-Rebuilder", I'd suggest you continue to post (only) to this thread regarding this topic...


That won't be necessary, as the video will have been re-encoded to .264 format...


Consider it done... I will more than happily let the other threads die and use this one. ;)

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

That's because it is VC-1. When the size of the output isn't changing you have to set FORCE_ENCODE=1 (not "FORCE_ENCODING=1", my mistake -- my change log was written incorrectly) to make sure it is converted to AVC. By default BD-RB won't waste the time to reencode... because the Blu-ray standard accepts VC-1.

Well that explains why it didn't work when I added "FORCE_ENCODING=1" ;)

I will change it from that to the correct FORCE_ENCODE=1 and give it a try.

:thanks:

Thanks

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

That's because it is VC-1. When the size of the output isn't changing you have to set FORCE_ENCODE=1 (not "FORCE_ENCODING=1", my mistake -- my change log was written incorrectly) to make sure it is converted to AVC. By default BD-RB won't waste the time to reencode... because the Blu-ray standard accepts VC-1.

Ok I made that correction in my config file. After about an hour and a half.. it froze up with this in it's screen:

[21:37:52] BD Rebuilder v0.28.04 (beta)
- Source: S1_D5-BR
- Input BD size: 19.10 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:37:39.987]
- Target BD size: 22.46 GB
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
[21:37:52] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [21:37:52] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00003]
- [21:58:39] Reencoding: VID_00003 (1 of 2)
- [22:14:18] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00004]
- Error in attempt to MKVMERGE.
[22:23:21] - Failed to retrieve audio, aborted

The status bar below had:

Current Progress at 100%
Overall Progress at 50.84% and it stayed their for 3 hours, before I figured it was "Frozen".

Thanks

WTC

[setarip_old]

@WildTexasChef

You seem to be having far too much trouble.It is several movies/TV shows from NBC universal. 1) What is the title of the original
BluRay disc?

2) What software and procedures did you use to rip your original BluRay disc to your hard drive?

[jdobbs]

Ok I made that correction in my config file. After about an hour and a half.. it froze up with this in it's screen:

[21:37:52] BD Rebuilder v0.28.04 (beta)
- Source: S1_D5-BR
- Input BD size: 19.10 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:37:39.987]
- Target BD size: 22.46 GB
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
[21:37:52] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [21:37:52] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00003]
- [21:58:39] Reencoding: VID_00003 (1 of 2)
- [22:14:18] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00004]
- Error in attempt to MKVMERGE.
[22:23:21] - Failed to retrieve audio, aborted

The status bar below had:

Current Progress at 100%
Overall Progress at 50.84% and it stayed their for 3 hours, before I figured it was "Frozen".

Thanks

WTC That means it is a field-based source which isn't supported by any of the DirectShow codecs in combination with HAALI. In order for it to encode, BD-RB extracts the video and then runs MKVMERGE to convert the raw VC-1 to MKV -- and the MKV serves as the source for the encode. What happens if you try and resume?

[WildTexasChef]

@WildTexasChef

You seem to be having far too much trouble. 1) What is the title of the original
BluRay disc?

2) What software and procedures did you use to rip your original BluRay disc to your hard drive?

Depending on the movie/show I get various different errors. Such as the one previously shown & this one...

-----------------------
[23:45:12] BD Rebuilder v0.28.04 (beta)
- Source: MUTANT_CHRONICLES
- Input BD size: 26.47 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:40:49.042]
- Target BD size: 22.46 GB
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
[23:45:12] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [23:45:12] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [00:07:21] Reencoding: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
- [00:07:21] Collecting video information
- Video: 1920x1080, 23.976fps, 145,032 frames
- Bitrate: 25,000 Kbs
- [00:07:21] Reencoding: VID_00000, Pass 1 of 2
- Encode failed. Retrying.
- Encode failed. Retrying.
- [02:44:12] Reencoding: VID_00000, Pass 2 of 2
- Encode failed. Retrying.
- Encode failed. Retrying.
- Reached retry limit. Aborting.
[13:06:09] - Failed video encode, aborted

The movies I have tried are the following...

Mutant Chronicles
Dragonball: Evolution
Dr. Who (all the ones released on Blu-ray so far) All discs
Torchwood (Again all the releases so far on Blu-ray) All discs
The Haunting in Connecticut

I use AnyDVD 6.5.7.4 to rip the Blu-ray to my hard drive. As I have the first blu-ray drive that Sony released. So it's very slow! only 2x! I rip to a SATA 10,000 RPM 300gb Western Digital Raptor drive. Very fast. (This drive is Drive D: and doesn't have Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit instealled on it)

Thanks for your help I do appreciate it very much

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

That means it is a field-based source which isn't supported by any of the DirectShow codecs in combination with HAALI. In order for it to encode, BD-RB extracts the video and then runs MKVMERGE to convert the raw VC-1 to MKV -- and the MKV serves as the source for the encode. What happens if you try and resume?

In the above example. It didn't let me resume. I had to force the program to close in "Task Manager".

With other Dr.Who/Torchwood discs as well as with Mutant Chronicles it will sometimes give a x264 error, when I close that it will continue. At least for a little while.
Then it will give the error as listed in the previous post to this one.

Thanks

WTC

[jdobbs]

In the above example. It didn't let me resume. I had to force the program to close in "Task Manager".

With other Dr.Who/Torchwood discs as well as with Mutant Chronicles it will sometimes give a x264 error, when I close that it will continue. At least for a little while.
Then it will give the error as listed in the previous post to this one.

Thanks

WTCAre you overclocked? That sounds a lot like a system instability.

[WildTexasChef]

Are you overclocked? That sounds a lot like a system instability.

Nope not at all. Just a basic Intel Core 2 Quad Core 2.66ghz machine 8gb Ram. Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit.

WTC

[jdobbs]

You say you get an "X264 Error" -- can you explain? While I've seen lots of error reports failed encodes caused by codecs, configuration issues, etc., reports of actual X264 errors are very rare.

[WildTexasChef]

Ok... YEAH! I have had SOME success.

On the Dr. Who & Torchwood Blu-ray rips I have had success with BD RB by selecting "Full Backup". Apparently because those discs don't really have a movie but several episodes per disc, it was getting "cunfused" somehow.

However.. it NOW presents a NEW problem.

It converted the episodes into H.264 from VC-1. Yet it DOWNCOVERTED from 1080i to 480p. YIKES... I want my 1080i back!

I went into the settings and verified that the box was NOT checked for downconvert from 1080p to 720p.

Yet it didn't just take it to 720p, it took it all the way to 480p.

The original file size per episode was around 16gb. The new file size is only around 1.5gb. A HUGE difference.

When I played both files back on my computer I wasn't able to tell the difference. YEt when I played them on my 65" plasma YOU CAN tell a MAJOR difference in quality!

So what gives now?

Thanks

WTC

P.S. Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that the ORIGINAL Blu-ray discs are BD-50's and NOT BD-25's?

You have an option for BD-25 but not for BD-50???? is there a way to get around this? Like I said when you select "Movie only" it doesn't work, only when you select "Full Backup" but then it downconverts.

[setarip_old]

You've really chosen the "less-than-ordinary" discs to cut your teeth on ;>}

Try doing one episode at a time by selecting "Alternate Movie Only" from the "Mode" dropdown menu - and select DVD-5 or DVD-9 from "Settings">>"Options"...

[jdobbs]

Ok... YEAH! I have had SOME success.

On the Dr. Who & Torchwood Blu-ray rips I have had success with BD RB by selecting "Full Backup". Apparently because those discs don't really have a movie but several episodes per disc, it was getting "cunfused" somehow.

However.. it NOW presents a NEW problem.

It converted the episodes into H.264 from VC-1. Yet it DOWNCOVERTED from 1080i to 480p. YIKES... I want my 1080i back!

I went into the settings and verified that the box was NOT checked for downconvert from 1080p to 720p.

Yet it didn't just take it to 720p, it took it all the way to 480p.

The original file size per episode was around 16gb. The new file size is only around 1.5gb. A HUGE difference.

When I played both files back on my computer I wasn't able to tell the difference. YEt when I played them on my 65" plasma YOU CAN tell a MAJOR difference in quality!

So what gives now?

Thanks

WTC

P.S. Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that the ORIGINAL Blu-ray discs are BD-50's and NOT BD-25's?

You have an option for BD-25 but not for BD-50???? is there a way to get around this? Like I said when you select "Movie only" it doesn't work, only when you select "Full Backup" but then it downconverts. I don't know what is running on your system that would down-convert from 1080 to 480 -- but it isn't BD-RB. It's possible you have some weird CODEC installed that is resizing it and it gets frame-served that way through DirectShow. But that's not BD-RB's fault. BD Rebuilder doesn't even have an option (or corresponding code) for resizing to 480.

In most cases if you have a BD-50, you can just copy it with AnyDVD and burn it. No need for using BD-RB in that scenario. The whole reason for using BD-RB is to reencode from BD-50 to a smaller target.

Of course at today's prices in most cases it's cheaper to buy two copies of the original disc than to make a BD-50 backup.

[WildTexasChef]

Since my last posts.. and before I have read the two previous posts I attempted the following.

I chose custom target size, then in the config file I changed the file size to 45450.

Then attempted to run the "Full Backup" on The Dr. Who & Torchwood Blu-ray rips. I noticed almost immediately that it changed from 720x480 to 1920x1080. I aborted the process so I could check a few other Blu-rays as well. Such as "Mutant Chronicles" which I decided to let run till it finished.

HOWEVER.... this is what I received just over 30 min into the process for the Blu-ray rip of "Mutant Chronicles"

A Window popped up saying"

X264.exe Has Stopped Working

"A Problem caused the Program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the progam and notify you if a solution is available"

Ony button option was "close program"

In the BD RB program the log window showed:

[11:46:26] BD Rebuilder v0.28.04 (beta)
- Source: MUTANT_CHRONICLES
- Input BD size: 37.64 GB
- Approximate total content: [05:11:57.448]
- Target BD size: 44.38 GB
[11:46:27] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [11:46:27] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [12:07:30] Reencoding: VID_00000 (1 of 47)
- [12:07:30] Collecting video information
- Video: 1920x1080, 23.976fps, 145,032 frames
- Bitrate: 25,000 Kbs
- [12:07:31] Reencoding: VID_00000, Pass 1 of 2
- Encode failed. Retrying.
- Encode failed. Retrying.

It only had one "Encode failed. Retrying." log in it. When I clicked the button for "Close Program" that is when BD RB attempted a 2nd try.

It is currently working on that 2nd try as I type this.

Lets see how this goes.

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

You've really chosen the "less-than-ordinary" discs to cut your teeth on ;>}

Try doing one episode at a time by selecting "Alternate Movie Only" from the "Mode" dropdown menu - and select DVD-5 or DVD-9 from "Settings">>"Options"...

I will give this a try as soon as "Mutant Chronicles" aborts again, or finishes.

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

I don't know what is running on your system that would down-convert from 1080 to 480 -- but it isn't BD-RB. It's possible you have some weird CODEC installed that is resizing it and it gets frame-served that way through DirectShow. But that's not BD-RB's fault. BD Rebuilder doesn't even have an option (or corresponding code) for resizing to 480.

In most cases if you have a BD-50, you can just copy it with AnyDVD and burn it. No need for using BD-RB in that scenario. The whole reason for using BD-RB is to reencode from BD-50 to a smaller target.

Of course at today's prices in most cases it's cheaper to buy two copies of the original disc than to make a BD-50 backup.

My pupose of trying to suceed at doing this, isn't to back up to BD media. But to back up to my NAS server so that I can play the HD content on Either and/or my TiVo-HD DVR, &/or my LG Network Blu-ray player. Neither will play VC-1 content over the network. They will only play HD content that is in the MPG2 or H.264 format. Thus ripping a Blu-ray disc that uses the MPG2 or H.264 video codec isn't a big issue. Rip, demux/remux and store on NAS. VC-1 has to be converted & that is where BD RB comes in. Since I was told that it will convert VC-1 content to H.264 content.

I did figure out the problem with it downconverting the 1080 to 480p. Since the content was on a BD50 disc and I had BD25 chosen for some reason it downcoverted. Once I chose custom and chose 45450 as the custom size it at least STARTED to convert at the correct size. Although I have received a few errors with "Mutant Chronicles" so far. (It is still currently running) and I aborted the "Dr. Who" and "Torchwood" conversions before they were finished. So as soon as "Mutant Chronicles" is done, I will go back and try "Dr. Who & Torchwood"

WTC

[jdobbs]

My pupose of trying to suceed at doing this, isn't to back up to BD media. But to back up to my NAS server so that I can play the HD content on Either and/or my TiVo-HD DVR, &/or my LG Network Blu-ray player. Neither will play VC-1 content over the network. They will only play HD content that is in the MPG2 or H.264 format. Thus ripping a Blu-ray disc that uses the MPG2 or H.264 video codec isn't a big issue. Rip, demux/remux and store on NAS. VC-1 has to be converted & that is where BD RB comes in. Since I was told that it will convert VC-1 content to H.264 content.

I did figure out the problem with it downconverting the 1080 to 480p. Since the content was on a BD50 disc and I had BD25 chosen for some reason it downcoverted. Once I chose custom and chose 45450 as the custom size it at least STARTED to convert at the correct size. Although I have received a few errors with "Mutant Chronicles" so far. (It is still currently running) and I aborted the "Dr. Who" and "Torchwood" conversions before they were finished. So as soon as "Mutant Chronicles" is done, I will go back and try "Dr. Who & Torchwood"

WTC You may want to go back an reread my post. The output size DOES NOT affect screen resolution. I can say that very confidently since I wrote the program. If you wish to believe otherwise -- well I guess that's up to you.

Something else is at work on your system -- and it's not BD-RB.

[GaPony]

Not totally tongue in cheek, but... you might be way better off to buy a PS3 and stream to it. No jumping through hoops. Depending on what your time is worth, the outlay of cash may be more beneficial. :)

[WildTexasChef]

Not totally tongue in cheek, but... you might be way better off to buy a PS3 and stream to it. No jumping through hoops. Depending on what your time is worth, the outlay of cash may be more beneficial. :)

LOL maybe... but I think $199 or even $299 just so I can play VC-1 content is a little steep!

From what I have learned for the most part. It seems that Universal is really big on the VC-1 content.

The Star Trek Original Series Blu-ray disks are all using VC-1 conent as well.

Whats up with this VC-1 content, doesn't seem very much supports VC-1 at all!

TGC

[WildTexasChef]

I have given up on BD-Rebuilder. I haven't gotten to work on ANY VC-1 encoded Blu-ray disk yet.

None of the Torchwood's, None of the Start Trek TOS blu-rays as well as a few others.

I have tried Microsoft's Expression Encoder 3, but for some reason haveing a problem with it recognizing m2ts/ts files with VC-1 video. The M2ts/ts file will play just fine on any of my computers. So I know the files are not corrupted.

Interesting enough. The Xbox 360 will play VC1 content. Just not AC3 audio. Unless you convert it too WMA9 Pro 5.1. I can easily convert the AC3 file that was created by EAC3TO to WMA9 Pro 5.1 using another program. But then remuxing the audio (WMA9 Pro) back with the VC1 video file into a WMV file is something I haven't been able to get Microsofts EE3 to do yet.

What really really ticks me off.. is Microsoft as big as they are should be using a file format that is the "Standard" yet they aren't. When you try to find software that will support encoding &/or decoding VC1 / WMA9 Pro content. It is basically NON-existant. YET Universal, BBC, and a few others are using VC-1 content in their Blu-ray's. Blu-ray specs allow for the use of VC-1. But any software you buy to burn your on Blu-rays DON'T support VC-1. It's either MPG2 or H.264.

For better or for worse. This is why I really wish the Federal goverment would get invovled and mandate a single format that everyone must follow and use. WE have had this problem for years. First VHS/Betamax, Then Blu-ray/HD-DVD.

In the end we CONSUMERS get screwed because of these multi-format wars that the industry fights over. I wish Blu-ray would have forced the video spec to one video format, maybe 2. But deffinately not THREE!

I would start using download/streaming services like Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, and others. But the problems there are.. NO Portability (I can't watch it on a portable device or in my SUV, or RV), Little support for 5.1/6.1/7.1 audio, Limited support (if at all) for closed captioning. (Which I feel is a violation of the ADA). As well as many other minor issues.

Sorry for my rant.... But I have been working on this problem for over 2 YEARS! Trying to figure out a way to EASILY play VC-1 content with 5.1 audio on my equipment. Without having to buy a special box jsut to play VC-1 content.

I currently have:

TiVo-HD. Capable of playing 1080i content with DD5.1 audio. Video can be MPG2 or H.264.

LG BD-390 Blu-ray player. It is networked. It can play MPG2, H.264 video content, as well as DD5.1 or DTS 5.1/6.1 content directly from the network off of a DLNA server, or off a NTFS formated USB 2.0 hard drive. Containers can be TS, M2TS, or MKV. It won't play VC-1 content unless it's being played from/as a blu-ray.

XBox 360 with the HDMI output. WMV is the only container that can support 1920x1080i VC1 content with WMA Pro 5.1 audio. H.264/mpg2 content can be 1080i, but it won't handle an AC3 audio stream in a h.264/mpg2 file.

For me... re-burning a blu-ray back to a blank blu-ray is pointless, as then you still have physical media you have to contend with and can get lost/stolen/broken.

Memory storage to store on hard drives is not a concern for me. As I have several very large NAS DLNA servers & can always get more if needed. So Memory storage, size of files is not something I am concerned with.

WTC

P.S. I honestly do appreciate very much everyones effort over the last 2 years to help me find a solution. I just haven't found one yet.

[jdobbs]

I just have to comment.

You say you've given up on BD Rebuilder... but from what I see and read, you were trying to use it for a purpose completely contrary to what it was designed to do. If you reencode a blu-ray disc, and write it to a BD disc -- and then play it back in a blu-ray player... it will work -- pretty much every time. Hundreds of others, including myself, are doing it every day.

Burning back to a blu-ray blank is pointless? Those are your words. BD Rebuilder (the name should give you a clue) is meant to do exactly that...

Don't come in here posting that you've "given up" -- as if something is wrong with the software. It's like saying "I've given up on screwdrivers -- because it simply won't hammer nails worth a damn."

[GaPony]

I'm no expert about this stuff and I don't the difference between VC-1 video and a V1 rocket, but I've managed to backup 572 Blu-Ray movies and stream them over my network to my PS3s (and burn to disc) with flawless video and great audio. Somewhere in all those movies there must have been some VC-1 content someplace! All I did was read the directions and left the technical details to others. As the mechanic said... I didn't invent the %#$@ thing, I just use it.

Microsoft won't embrace Blu-Ray for whatever business reason they have. The XBox is very persnickity about what audio it will play, and almost everything has to be transcoded before giving it to the XBox.

Maybe I'm missing something... I don't really care about PIP and 20 different type of audio, or 370 subtitle languages. I just want to watch a crisp clear movie with great audio and BD-Rebuilder delivers it...everytime (so far). If I ever do have a problem, I'll just watch the original disc until a fix comes along...without complaint. I'm not about to drop BD-Rebuilder. I'll make sure any player I buy works with it and return it if it doesn't.

[WildTexasChef]

I just have to comment.

You say you've given up on BD Rebuilder... but from what I see and read, you were trying to use it for a purpose completely contrary to what it was designed to do. If you reencode a blu-ray disc, and write it to a BD disc -- and then play it back in a blu-ray player... it will work -- pretty much every time. Hundreds of others, including myself, are doing it every day.

Burning back to a blu-ray blank is pointless? Those are your words. BD Rebuilder (the name should give you a clue) is meant to do exactly that...

Don't come in here posting that you've "given up" -- as if something is wrong with the software. It's like saying "I've given up on screwdrivers -- because it simply won't hammer nails worth a damn."

Oh my apologies... I never said, nor did I ever have the intentions or meanings to imply that BD Rebuilder wasn't a good program or that it didn't do what it claimed to do.

If you read most of the posts in here. Someone suggested that I use BD Rebuilder to create a Blu-ray backup in hard drive form, or even on a Blu-ray disk. Which would then have converted the VC-1 video track to a h.264 video track. Then "re-rip" the blu-ray disk &/or folder. I tried BD-Rebuilder simply because someone had suggested that it would work to do what I really needed a program to do, & that is convert VC-1 video to MPG2 or h.264 video.

For whatever reasons. Being my systems (Hardware/software), &/or my own lack of knowledge &/or ineptness to doing this. I was unable to get BD-Rebuilder to finish creating the new blu-ray folder &/or blu-ray disk. I don't know where the problem was & why I couldn't get BD-Rebuilder to work.

For ME burning a blu-ray disc of a blu-ray disc that I allready own is pointless. Again my apologies. I never meant to say or imply that burning blu-rays was pointless for you or for anyone else for that matter. But for ME it is.

My anger/rant was NOT about BD-Rebuilder, it was mainly about the fact that there ARE so many darn video codecs in use & that the industry can't ever get just make one codec a standard. Good or bad. As a result there aren't very many software programs that fully support VC-1. At least not to the level that MPG2 & H.264 are supported. Thats all I was saying.

WTC

[WildTexasChef]

I'm no expert about this stuff and I don't the difference between VC-1 video and a V1 rocket, but I've managed to backup 572 Blu-Ray movies and stream them over my network to my PS3s (and burn to disc) with flawless video and great audio. Somewhere in all those movies there must have been some VC-1 content someplace! All I did was read the directions and left the technical details to others. As the mechanic said... I didn't invent the %#$@ thing, I just use it.

Well like you, I am no expert either. I know just enough to get me confused & into trouble. That I know is true.

For various reasons I do not own a PS3. Maybe in the future I will. The cost factor to a PS3 though isn't why I don't have one yet though. My Blu-ray player is a stand alone LG BD390. Capable of doing many wonderfull things besides playing Blu-ray moves with BD Live 2.0 capabilites.

With 570+ Blu-rays that you have copied/backed up. I am sure that a few of those had VC-1 video content. Especially if they came from NBC/Universal.


Microsoft won't embrace Blu-Ray for whatever business reason they have. The XBox is very persnickity about what audio it will play, and almost everything has to be transcoded before giving it to the XBox.

I do have an XBox 360. Many reasons why I chose this unit instead of a PS3 or even a Wii. I will more than admit that it is very persnickity about any media (Audio &/or video) that it will play & what it will play it from. There are files that can't be played from a USB Flash drive/Hard drive. But can be played if using the Media extender function of the XBox & Vice versa. Go figure. I will say this though. The Netflix interface is much better with the Xbox 360 than it is with either my TiVo HD or my LG BD390 Blu-ray player.


Maybe I'm missing something... I don't really care about PIP and 20 different type of audio, or 370 subtitle languages. I just want to watch a crisp clear movie with great audio and BD-Rebuilder delivers it...everytime (so far). If I ever do have a problem, I'll just watch the original disc until a fix comes along...without complaint. I'm not about to drop BD-Rebuilder. I'll make sure any player I buy works with it and return it if it doesn't.

After I got my LG BD390 player, (My 4th bd player, & first to have BD Live 2.0) I have found that their isn't really anything all that great about BD Live &/or the PIP features either. At least not yet.

All I care about is getting 1080i or better video resolution at a decent bitrate with 5.1 audio. Doesn't matter to me if the audio is Dolby, DTS, or WMA9 Pro.

I also don't really care if I play the HD show/movie back using my TiVo, Xbox, or Blu-ray payer via USB Hard drive or DLNA server.

What I DON'T want to have to do to play a HD show/movie (except in very rare circumstances) using a physical Blu-ray disc. The reason for this, is because back in the day when my famlies movie watching was done totally via physical media (DVD). No one could ever find the movie we were looking for. Which box/cabinet was it stored in? Which DVD player is it in? (1 of 12 in the household at the time) Was it left in the SUV? The Car? The portable players? The RV? Living room? Bedrooms? Game room? Kitchen? Computers? Trust me... Trying to find the movie on physical media in our household WAS a total NIGHTMARE!

When a movie is stored in Digital format as a file on a server. Then it can easily be played on a multitude of devices. Depending on ones needs at the time.

Now like I said in my post immediately previous to this one:
I never meant to imply that BD-Rebuilder wasn't a good program nor did I mean to imply that it wouldn't do what it was designed to do.

I was just stating that I had given up on BD-Rebuilder because for whatever reason I wasn't ever able to get it to work. So I couldn't even use it as one of many steps I figured I was going to need to take to get to my required end result.

Who knows why I couldn't get it to work. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Maybe it is the way my system is set up. Maybe there is a codec or some other software piece that is missing that I should have installed. Maybe even possible that another piece of software I have installed is messing it up as well.

So again my anger/rant was NOT intended to be directed at BD-Rebuilder for any reason. My anger/rant is at the industry for not fully supporting VC-1 content to the level it needs to be. As well as my anger at the industry for not providing consumers what we all really want in the first place. DRM free material that will play on whatever device we currently own or purchase in the future with a way to protect our investment.

WTC

[deank]

I was playing with ffvideosource function from FFmpegSource2 plugin (http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource)(ffms2.dll for avisynth) for the last couple of days and found it extremely useful, since using it may overcome all the troubles with directshow/ffdshow and VC-1 sources.

I gave it a try with a VC-1 BD source (Training Day) and it works perfect.

@jdobbs: If you have the time - you can try it instead of directshow (at least for VC-1 sources) and save all the troubles of pointing users to use workarounds, registry tweaks, etc. I personally never had troubles with VC-1 (vista 32bit + ffdshow) but it is an option after all.

Dean

[GaPony]

@WildTexasChef

Maybe part of your problem is with your DLNA server... I'm not sure what you're using, or how you're converting your movies, but you might give PS3 Media Server a try. Its free, easy to setup, and supports the XBox 360. I just use BD-Rebuilder to convert the movies to BD9 (custome size 8250) (movie only with AC3 640kbs audio) and pull out the single .m2ts file, rename it to the name of the movie, and put it in my shared folder. Your XBox should handle these formats natively, so you only need to stream them without transcoding. Your XBox won't handle HD audio anyway, and if you have a movie that requires subtitles, its more complicated, but generally PS3 Media Server will handle 98% of your movies very well and quite easily. It 100 times better and easier than using Media Player, TVersity, Twonky and other servers I've tried. Between my DVDs and Blu-Rays, I'm sitting on about 22TB worth of movies, so far, and have about another 10TB worth of movies yet to convert for streaming. I'm with you... I'm basically done with using discs, but will still backup every original that I buy, for safety and peace of mind.

[jdobbs]

I was playing with ffvideosource function from FFmpegSource2 plugin (http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource)(ffms2.dll for avisynth) for the last couple of days and found it extremely useful, since using it may overcome all the troubles with directshow/ffdshow and VC-1 sources.

I gave it a try with a VC-1 BD source (Training Day) and it works perfect.

@jdobbs: If you have the time - you can try it instead of directshow (at least for VC-1 sources) and save all the troubles of pointing users to use workarounds, registry tweaks, etc. I personally never had troubles with VC-1 (vista 32bit + ffdshow) but it is an option after all.

Dean Sounds like a great idea. I'll do some testing.

:thanks:

[Groucho2004]

I was playing with ffvideosource function from FFmpegSource2 plugin (http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource)(ffms2.dll for avisynth) for the last couple of days and found it extremely useful, since using it may overcome all the troubles with directshow/ffdshow and VC-1 sources.

I gave it a try with a VC-1 BD source (Training Day) and it works perfect.

@jdobbs: If you have the time - you can try it instead of directshow (at least for VC-1 sources) and save all the troubles of pointing users to use workarounds, registry tweaks, etc. I personally never had troubles with VC-1 (vista 32bit + ffdshow) but it is an option after all.

Dean

I second that. I also have been playing with ffvideosource for a few days now and it works like a charm with all sources I throw at it.
I can finally ditch ffdshow and DGAVCDecode (which works fine with progressive sources most of the time but fails with interlaced sources).

[jdobbs]

I second that. I also have been playing with ffvideosource for a few days now and it works like a charm with all sources I throw at it.
I can finally ditch ffdshow and DGAVCDecode (which works fine with progressive sources most of the time but fails with interlaced sources). I noticed it appears to need some specific levels of C support libraries for the indexer. It runs on one of my Vista machines, but not the other ("failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect"). That's a little troublesome -- as I can see a lot of potential bug reports. I noticed that the computer that fails only has Service Pack 1 installed. I'm upgrading to Service Pack 2 to see if that fixes it.

[Groucho2004]

I noticed it appears to need some specific levels of C support libraries for the indexer. It runs on one of my Vista machines, but not the other ("failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect"). That's a little troublesome -- as I can see a lot of potential bug reports. I noticed that the computer that fails only has Service Pack 1 installed. I'm upgrading to Service Pack 2 to see if that fixes it.

Strange. Did you use the standalone indexer or did you let the ffvideosource function index the file?

I searched the ffms2 thread but nobody seems to have this problem...

Edit:
I think it's just the standalone indexer that causes the problem you describe. This is how I use ffms2.dll in my program:

After creating the Avisynth script I load it with "AVIFileOpen()" and then "AVIFileInfo()" which will force the indexing. This way the long delay caused by the indexing will not happen when the script is loaded into x264 (which could give the impression that the encoder is not working).

Have a look at squid_80's code for avsutil: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1161873#post1161873

[jdobbs]

Strange. Did you use the standalone indexer or did you let the ffvideosource function index the file?

I searched the ffms2 thread but nobody seems to have this problem...

Edit:
I think it's just the standalone indexer that causes the problem you describe. This is how I use ffms2.dll in my program:

After creating the Avisynth script I load it with "AVIFileOpen()" and then "AVIFileInfo()" which will force the indexing. This way the long delay caused by the indexing will not happen when the script is loaded into x264 (which could give the impression that the encoder is not working).

I'll take a look at the link.

Have a look at squid_80's code for avsutil: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1161873#post1161873 Yes it's the standalone indexer. As you said, the problem is that if I decide to use this with the built in indexer, it freezes for a long time before starting the encode. People get very anxious when programs "freeze" with no indication of progress. If you use the standalone version, you can update a progress bar from it.

By the way, I upgraded that system to Service Pack2 and still get the same error. I'm probably going to have to dump the idea of using the standalone indexer -- if it happened to me it's going to happen to a few thousand other people too. I don't need the additional reports.

[WildTexasChef]

@WildTexasChef

Maybe part of your problem is with your DLNA server... I'm not sure what you're using, or how you're converting your movies, but you might give PS3 Media Server a try. Its free, easy to setup, and supports the XBox 360. I just use BD-Rebuilder to convert the movies to BD9 (custome size 8250) (movie only with AC3 640kbs audio) and pull out the single .m2ts file, rename it to the name of the movie, and put it in my shared folder. Your XBox should handle these formats natively, so you only need to stream them without transcoding. Your XBox won't handle HD audio anyway, and if you have a movie that requires subtitles, its more complicated, but generally PS3 Media Server will handle 98% of your movies very well and quite easily. It 100 times better and easier than using Media Player, TVersity, Twonky and other servers I've tried. Between my DVDs and Blu-Rays, I'm sitting on about 22TB worth of movies, so far, and have about another 10TB worth of movies yet to convert for streaming. I'm with you... I'm basically done with using discs, but will still backup every original that I buy, for safety and peace of mind.

I don't think the problem is my DLNA server. At least not yet. I haven't gotten to the point of trying to serve out the video from from the DLNA server.

Currently I am just using a movie trailer that is in HD using the VC-1 codec & AC3 5.1 audio that is found on one of the Blu-rays. Doing this because the trailer is only 3 min. So it produces a small file size & doesn't take forever to process. Once I found a way to make the trailer play just fine, then I will go on to actually processing a full fledge movie/TV show.

The Xbox 360 will handle 5.1 audio. But only if it's in a WMA9 Pro format. I think they now call it WMA Proffesional 10 as well. But it can handle 5.1 audio. I converted a 5.1 AC3 audio file that is found on one of those blu-ray "test" discs. Converted the AC3 5.1 test file to WMA9 Pro. It then played just fine on my Xbox 360... Test file was verbal audio with the guy recorded saying.. "Left Speaker, Center Speaker, Right speaker, Rear speakers, then Sub Woofer"

While I like Subtitles/Closed captioning. At this time it still is a pain in the arse to use. Even on SD-DVD's. So at this time I am not to worried about making use of it. At least not at this time.

Since you said PS3 media server will work with the XBox 360 as well I just might have to give that a try when I get to that point. Where does one obtain this server program?

My next question is you say you use BD-Rebuilder and put it into a file size of BD9 (8250). Doesn't the file size reduction from an average of 35GB to 8.2gb make a big difference in PQ? What size HDTV screen are you using?

My main HDTV is a 65" plasma. The rest of the house I use 32" or 40" LCD HDTV's. I can tell a big difference in PQ on my 65" when I compare some movies that on my 32" or 40" that no one in my family has been able to notice.

However, for whatever reason I was never able to get BD-Rebuilder to ever complete a rebuild or finish. I don't know if the problem was with me, my hardware, or becasue of other software I have or haven't loaded on my computer, or if the Blu-ray rip has issues. Although the M2TS file will play without issue on several Player software programs.

I know on BD-Rebuilder with one disc of "Star Trek TOS" on Blu-ray. When you select "Movie only" it had issues and bombed because it couldn't determine the main movie. Thats becasue on the disc there were 4 episodes of ST-TOS! When I tried the entire disc It froze up, or at least I assumed so, because the progress bar hadn't moved in 14 hours & I let the program run from start for 48hrs. I have a Quad core 3.2ghz Core 2 system as well. 300gb Raptor drive (10,000 rpm) and Vista 64 bit and 16gb of D-Ram.

The only reason I was thinking about using the XBox 360 is that it CAN play VC-1 video files with the WMA 9 Pro 5.1 audio. Where as my TiVo & LG Blu-ray player won't play VC-1 content. (The Blu-ray player will play VC-1 content but only in the Blu-ray burned format)

getting to the point I am thinking about just investing in a Popcorn hour. That thing will play anything. Just hate the idea of another "box" in my entertainment center.

WTC

[Groucho2004]

By the way, I upgraded that system to Service Pack2 and still get the same error. I'm probably going to have to dump the idea of using the standalone indexer -- if it happened to me it's going to happen to a few thousand other people too. I don't need the additional reports.

I gave up on the standalone indexer, it doesn't work for me at all on XP.

If you don't need the actual progress indicator for the indexing (just a message that says something like "Indexing file, please wait...") you could use a function like the one below to trigger it.

BOOL IndexVideoFile(CString csAvsScript)
{
AVIFileInit();
PAVIFILE pAVSFile;

int iRet = AVIFileOpen(&pAVSFile, csAvsScript, OF_READ, NULL);

if (iRet != AVIERR_OK)
{
if (pAVSFile != NULL)
{
AVIFileRelease(pAVSFile);
AVIFileExit();
}

if (iRet == AVIERR_BADFORMAT)
AfxMessageBox("The file couldn't be read, indicating a corrupt file or an unrecognized format", MB_ICONSTOP);
else if (iRet == AVIERR_MEMORY)
AfxMessageBox("The file could not be opened because of insufficient memory", MB_ICONSTOP);
else if ((iRet == AVIERR_FILEREAD) || (iRet == AVIERR_FILEOPEN))
AfxMessageBox("A disk error occurred while reading the file", MB_ICONSTOP);
else if (iRet == REGDB_E_CLASSNOTREG)
AfxMessageBox("The file specified in AVIFileOpen does not have a handler to process it", MB_ICONSTOP);
else
AfxMessageBox("Unknown error opening avs file", MB_ICONSTOP);

return FALSE;
}

AVIFILEINFO avi_info;
AVIFileInfo(pAVSFile, &avi_info, sizeof(AVIFILEINFO));

AVIFileRelease(pAVSFile);
AVIFileExit();

return TRUE;
}

[Myrsloik]

Yes it's the standalone indexer. As you said, the problem is that if I decide to use this with the built in indexer, it freezes for a long time before starting the encode. People get very anxious when programs "freeze" with no indication of progress. If you use the standalone version, you can update a progress bar from it.

By the way, I upgraded that system to Service Pack2 and still get the same error. I'm probably going to have to dump the idea of using the standalone indexer -- if it happened to me it's going to happen to a few thousand other people too. I don't need the additional reports.

I forgot to use static linking for the runtimes and the switch to vs2008 made this apparent since those aren't included with any windows version/most common software. It will be corrected in the next release or you can install the vs2008 sp1 c++ runtimes in the meantime.

I'd also like to mention that ffms2 has its own (quite sane I might add) API that can be used to do indexing and have the progress easily reported back. Just include ffms.h and look at ffmsindex.cpp for an example of how to use it.

[Groucho2004]

static linking

That'll be great, thanks!

[GaPony]

@ WildTexasChef...

I also looked at the Popcorn Hour, but they have a brand new device just hitting the market, with a pretty long backlog so I'm holding off. I would recommend buying a bare unit directly from Popcorn Hour and not from a vendor. You can just add in your own hard drive and save alot of money. The PS3 has alot more capability for streaming than the XBox, so I'll just do alot more playing with the PS3 settings for the more advanced freatures of streaming, until the new Popcorn Hour device is readily available. Maybe by then I'll have everything figured out. :)

PS3 Media Server also supports the Popcorn Hour, so any time used in playing with it wouldn't be wasted.

I use a Samsung 52" 120hz LCD TV. I take copies to a friends house that has a 102" projector and they still look great. Since I basically strip the DTS-MA and True-HD audio, there is very little video compression being done to fit the movie onto a DL DVD. I would only recommend that you try one and play it on your own Blu-Ray player... You'll only have a couple bucks invested.

PS3 Media Server:

Download: http://code.google.com/p/ps3mediaserver/

Latest Beta (WHat I'm using) : http://ps3mediaserver.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3217

Forum: http://ps3mediaserver.org/forum/index.php

Tutorial Thread: http://ps3mediaserver.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2191

It installs in seconds and configures in minutes... so not much time invested in trying. ;)

Good Luck!

[jdobbs]

I was playing with ffvideosource function from FFmpegSource2 plugin (http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource)(ffms2.dll for avisynth) for the last couple of days and found it extremely useful, since using it may overcome all the troubles with directshow/ffdshow and VC-1 sources.

I gave it a try with a VC-1 BD source (Training Day) and it works perfect.

@jdobbs: If you have the time - you can try it instead of directshow (at least for VC-1 sources) and save all the troubles of pointing users to use workarounds, registry tweaks, etc. I personally never had troubles with VC-1 (vista 32bit + ffdshow) but it is an option after all.

DeanFFVideoSource() crashes on VC-1 sources that are field based interlaced. Unlike DirectShowSource(), it also fails on an MKV version of those sources. The error is "CAVIStreamSynth: System Exception, Access Violation at 0x0: reading from 0x0".

Other than that it seems to work pretty well -- but is about 20% slower than DirectShowSource() on my system -- not counting the extra time for indexing.

Too bad. I was hoping this would be a way to ensure compatibility without the dependency on FFDShow and Windows Media Player.

[deank]

Does it crash with 'rffmode=1' option?

[jdobbs]

Does it crash with 'rffmode=1' option?

Yes, I tried that. Same error.